#176 Comedian Wendy Liebman Is Taller On TV

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:30

All right, Phyllis, thank you so much for that all my amazing introduction. I knew you got the show going each and every week and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody, to Episode 176 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for another conversation sure to go into the record books as classic I have with me today. One of the funniest people in the world comedian Wendy Liebman is joining me today Wendy has appeared on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, though Larry Sanders Show on HBO, Dr. Katz, Jimmy Kimmel, Late Night with David Letterman. The list goes on and on. You're gonna love my conversation with Wendy Liebman. She's amazing, and that's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds, I want to remind you of a few recent episodes of the podcast, Episode 174 with Oscar winner George chick Charis Bernardo from West Side Story, we dive deep into his career and West Side Story episode 175. With Pat Janko Ed's author of you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. An Incredible Hulk companion a deep dive into the Bill Bixby, Lou Ferrigno Incredible Hulk TV series, an amazing conversation. You love deep dives last week was a treasure trove for you, I suppose. All right, well, more treasure awaits. With this episode, Episode 176. Comedian Wendy Liebman. Enjoy. Alright, everyone, I'd like to introduce you to my next guest. You may have seen her on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson and The Larry Sanders Show Dr. Katz Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, etc, etc. One of the funniest people in the world one of my favorite comics, so excited to have on the show, Wendy Lee Ben. Well,

Wendy Liebman 2:30

that was the best intro. Thanks. I'm gonna bronze that intro. I love that intro.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:37

Oh, well, thanks. It's I'm so excited to talk to you. I Like honestly, you were like one of my favorite comedians of all time. Like I just everything I just. So I

Wendy Liebman 2:51

think that thank you so much. I mean, like, we've both been doing this for a long time. But I feel like I'm just getting my voice now.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:00

I love your voice back then. I'm sure you're making it better. That's what that's what comedians do. I just have always been fascinated. And just I mean, the structure of your jokes is just hilarious. It relies on a masterful timing. And that, to me, is what I find so amazing. And fascinating. While I'm laughing. And doing that. It's just that manipulation of time. And space is really what a lot of people aren't great at, and you're just the master. And you see a lot of people trying to do that. And you know, I think maybe I tried to do it too. And so but yeah, I mean, that's, that's where I think you're super,

Wendy Liebman 3:40

I don't even know how to answer. I mean, respond to that, except that one time I was getting massage, and I realized that the times that she didn't have her hands on me, it was the anticipation of this is going to be great. Because everything she had done before was great. So part of the experience was the waiting. I don't know if that makes any sense. So I guess my timing is, I don't know, I need a massage.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:10

I got it. It's hard to explain, you know, just to put it in words, because it's it's probably just is it just how you are? I mean, it was it how you would kind of talk I mean, I'm sure you honed it on for the stage and stuff like that. But was that how just always your brain kind of work like just that little hidden boom,

Wendy Liebman 4:26

I think it's all just like trial and error and not wanting to be on stage in limbo. So using the silence and also what you hear because the audience definitely tells you everything that you need to adjust yourself accordingly. And yeah, every time I go on stage, it's like an experiment, but I haven't been on stage a lot. I've done a lot of zooms stand up shows which is so I love it actually because I have the teleprompter. I'm like, I have my jokes written at the top so I don't have to like freak out them gonna forget what I'm going to say now that I'm my age. But yeah, I haven't been on stage because of cofee. I mean COVID. And before that a year and a half before that I had been hit by a car. I was recovering. So I wasn't doing stand up because I had a lot of broken bones.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:22

I read about that. That is That was horrible. But that was like your second big accident, right? I mean, don't hang out with me. When do you in cars? It's like, it's like buddy, buddy, Holly and planes,

Wendy Liebman 5:35

planes. Yeah, the first time I was in a car, and my husband and I were hit by a drunk driver going 92. And there were six cars waiting at a light and was like, he was the bowling ball. And he went like he Yeah, he hit where you do a strike. And the woman in the car next to us died. And so that was like, you know, 10 feet from death. And that was in 2013. And what that did for me was made me go I have to get back out there because I've been taking some time off to raise my stepchildren still performing, but just not as much as I had been. Yeah. So I went back out there again. And but then in 2018, I was hit by a car while I was walking across the street that took a while to heal. But I'm factory reset now. Yeah, you have to walk? No, you look ready to walk.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:33

Sorry about the hat. It's just my hair was just

Wendy Liebman 6:35

No, I meant like, walk from this interview.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:38

That's this is. I work too hard. I mean, not to make you relive it. But I mean, Were you conscious? Or did you just wake up and you're like, someone's like, oh, by the way, you were in an accident?

Wendy Liebman 6:50

Well, no, I was conscious the whole time. And a really nice Samaritan came to my rescue. And he had been walking toward me. I don't I don't need you to relive it or live it. But he was walking toward me. And he I do remember saying to him when he came to comfort me, we had the light, right. And he was like, you had the light, like hit you. I'm not allowed to say, hey, but what was I gonna say? Oh, but then I passed out. Oh, I know. I passed out in the ambulance after the guy was like, How old are you? I said, I'm 57 Because I have a 57 year olds approximately 140 pounds. And I'm like, I weighed 100. And I like that stuff. But then I woke up and I knew I wasn't at home because I could hear somebody vacuuming.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:41

The beautiful thing about stand up comedians, it's turning the tragedy into a hilarious

Wendy Liebman 7:47

No, but honestly, I was never upset. I was taking a little oxycodone and I do understand the opioid crisis firsthand. I mean, I never gotten to crisis, but I understand how addictive that was. So I'm just saying that as a real thing, but I somebody explained to me that my bones had to knit themselves back together like that's how it bone heals. And I felt like I was doing that with everything in my life. Like I just had time to feel like thing again. Watch me TV

Jeff Dwoskin 8:20

aside it make you relive some of that it was just for me. It's like my greatest nightmare, but for some reason I had to hear it. I just is that your greatest nightmare. I just wow. Just to be able to like have something like it's traumatic happen and be aware.

Wendy Liebman 8:35

Well, I do remember feeling like because I stepped out on the curb. And I do remember feeling this car up against my body. And I felt myself turning and I remember thinking oh, this is what it's like to be hit by a car. And then my next thought was I don't have time for this

Jeff Dwoskin 8:55

so as I was talking, timelines and stuff like that, so was this the recovery from this is this What led you on the path and to America's Got Talent was just sort of like

Wendy Liebman 9:05

that was the first act that was the first accident. Yeah, because this accident happened 2018 And then I was pretty much recovered by the end of 2019. And then COVID hit so I had only performed twice and

Jeff Dwoskin 9:21

Okay, now the timeline is making more sense to me. So you got Okay, the drunk driver hits you. You go on America's Got Talent and then the universe says

Wendy Liebman 9:32

well, you know, I did realize that the universe you have to ask the universe for what you need Jeff. Like I probably said I need a break. And I needed to be more specific.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:42

Right? The universe was a little too taken when do a little too literal. Literal. What was it like? Did you know how he Mandel from your comment? I

Wendy Liebman 9:50

didn't know how he meant my first and only writing job was willing moved out to California from Boston and probably around In 1993, how we had a summer variety show, I remember Gilbert Godfried was on it. And Robert Boulais like it really was a variety show. And he had like gum up and elephants. And anyway, it was hired to write some sketches. And so I didn't know him. So he had to declare that he knew me. And he couldn't vote. So yeah, it was fair. It was all fair. And I had asked him, I said, you know, should I do this? And he's like, why not? It's exposure. It's, you know, you just get out there. I had had some responses. Were like, you're already been on The Tonight Show. Why are you doing this? And I thought the producers didn't care. There are people on that show who already had like, major recording contracts, and so I don't regret anything.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:48

No, I think it was. It's a great move, because that show probably is, I think that's an idea of Johnny Carson. If someone looks on paper goes, Oh, that's the maca. But the reality is America's Got Talent probably had a huge multiple of people beyond who actually would have seen the Tonight Show. Right? So it's in terms of exposure. Yeah. And I'm always game, and then how we brought you back. So that was cool, actually, is Howard Howard Stern. Sorry, I forgot. There were two. This is show business.

Wendy Liebman 11:17

This is show business. I never met him. I'm sorry. I missed what you were saying. Because I was futzing with my hair.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:23

No, I was saying Howard Stern brought you back. So and then it is intimidating. Ron Howard Stern? I would I know you're a professional. You've done a million times. But it seems like that would still be

Wendy Liebman 11:33

No, I mean, I love Howard Stern so much. And I never got to meet him. Like they made it seem like I knew him. And he called me back. But that was just like from a distance. So I was disappointed that I didn't get to meet him and shake his hand, because I think he's great. And hilarious.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:53

Yeah. Well, he loved you. That was 2014. So why isn't he had you on his radio show then or anything? I'm not in that clique. But you should be he knows you now that Anyway, hi, let's his loss.

Wendy Liebman 12:06

We think I'd be doing your show. Now. If I was.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:10

No, thank God.

Wendy Liebman 12:15

I'm just kidding.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:16

Oh, I know. I know. Sorry to interrupt, but I got fed up and walked out of the interview. I'm kidding. I've got us just want to take a quick break. Thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors, you're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now we're back to my amazing conversation with Wendy Liebman. We're gonna dive into the origin of her path to comedy, and we're back. When did you realize you're hilarious? And this was going to be your path in life. I know you took a class, you were taking classes and stuff like that.

Wendy Liebman 12:48

No, but my mother said, I was always funny when I was little, like my lemonade stand had a two drink minimum. And no, I don't think I was okay. So when I was like seven or eight, after Thanksgiving, I decided I wanted to make everybody laugh. So I put on like a two to a skew. And I remember pushing one of my socks down thinking that asymmetry would get the laugh, and I have a picture of it, which I can send you guys. And I did get a laugh. But it wasn't until like I was very serious all through high school. But I did musical theater. I was Eliza and my fair lady that was truly my the highlight of my acting career when I was 16. And then I went to college, and I got really serious. And I studied philosophy, and I was going to be a therapist. And but I started getting funny in my senior year as a defense mechanism. I think it was I think I was so I was so lost. And yeah, so I was doing psych research, after college. And I took the mail in from the wrong apartment building, I lived in a duplex and like it was a house and we were on the top floor. And I took it in from the bottom floor. And it was a course catalog for the Cambridge center for adult education, which is like the learning Amex or any adult ed school. And it said how to be a stand up comedian. The real story is at first I took an acting class, and then the teacher quit mid class, like at the break, and then the school said, We'll take another class. So I kept reading the catalog and I see how to be a stand up comedian. And it was like the angels were singing, like I heard ah, and I thought, that's a class. That's crazy. And yeah, I took that class. I don't know if you can teach somebody exactly to be funny, but I think learning is all about just focusing, focusing on something. And so it was basically a group of people who got together and drank beer and tried jokes. But you know, it just made me I knew I sucked for a lot long time, but I just knew that I should do this.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:03

That's fascinating. I agree with you that I think the class gives you structure just like anything. Here's how you would write a book, or here's how you do this. Or you still have to have it in you to be able to execute it the greatness but we talked about the universe, but it's just interesting, right? So you had the wrong mail, mail comes to your house, and then you picked the wrong class. And then the universe self corrected and got totally believe

Wendy Liebman 15:27

in that. Well, I believe in inevitability.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:31

Yeah, we can call the universe but whatever is at play. Right, right. Yeah, maybe the guy just quit. And that was the only thing.

Wendy Liebman 15:38

He quit in the middle of the class.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:41

Isn't it fascinating to think like, I'm sure eventually your path would have found its way but what if he hadn't quit?

Wendy Liebman 15:46

You know, what if I had taken the right mail? What if I had a bitter glasses on and I seen that it was for apartment one? So much. You'll What if my downstairs neighbor came stand up comedian.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:01

While you were an actor's getting your academy award? Oh, no, You never know. All this. All this? Alright, so you're from New York by Boston comic? Yes.

Wendy Liebman 16:12

People think I'm from Boston, but I just started comedy there. So I was born there too. In a way. You know what I mean?

Jeff Dwoskin 16:19

Yeah, I heard once you say that, Brian, Kylie's one of your favorite comedians,

Wendy Liebman 16:23

the best he is. Okay. So I used to tag along with my teacher of the class, whose name is Ron Lynch. And he has since been on the Sarah Silverman program, and he's in Bob's Burgers and he's a great comedian guy. He was my mentor, my mother, he was just so caring. And I used to go on, on trips with him to his gigs. And he was in a team called Bob and Ron, and one of the gigs was at the knotty pine, which was like this restaurant where you pretty much performed on the table. It was like a tabletop on level with everybody's food. It was so bizarre. I'd like to go back now. Like you go back to elementary school and see how different

Jeff Dwoskin 17:08

it is. Sure. Right. Right. Your memory palaces. Yeah.

Wendy Liebman 17:11

But the opening act was Brian Kiley. And I think he told me later, they told him to do 20 minutes, and he only had like, 12. But anyway, I just remember falling in love with his sense of humor that night, and he has continued to entertain me and I just love I love him. I love his his jokes. And he's written two books, two novels. And I'm not a big reader, but I love, love, love, love his novels

Jeff Dwoskin 17:38

have to check out his novels.

Wendy Liebman 17:41

Maybe Kevin, it's his latest one is called maybe Kevin.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:45

Check that out. I had Brian on on the podcast. He was fun to talk to. Very cool. All right. So as I understand it, you win. Johnnie Walker improv contest at the improv. Right. And you end up on this night show or then

Wendy Liebman 17:59

wandered in Boston. Okay. Came out here. I didn't win it here. But I did get to go on The Tonight Show. So I feel like that was good enough. Yeah. That was surreal. Jim McCauley, who was the talent Booker was at the show at the Improv the night that all the comedians from all over the country came after they were selected in their areas. It was really Budd Friedman, who owns the improv, or CO owned it his wife, Alex Friedman, who said she's funny. And so that's why he brought me out here. And the guy from The Tonight Show, Jim McCauley was backstage and he said, How come we haven't seen you before? And I'm like, I'd never been to California before. He said, Would you like to do the show? I'm like, oh, so he booked me a week later. So in the meantime, I went back to Boston to my day job. And then I did the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:50

How long were you doing comedy at this point? Six years? Six years? Okay,

Wendy Liebman 18:54

so it wasn't like six months, like somebody accused me of one's

Jeff Dwoskin 19:00

about to accuse you of that? No,

Wendy Liebman 19:02

no, no, because I had put in my time, like, I would go my day job. I was an administrative assistant at a college at this point. And then every night I would go either to Connecticut, Rhode Island, Vermont, New Hampshire or someplace in Western Massachusetts, or today in town in Boston, do one or two or three gigs and just do it every day. And I really, there's nothing to replace experience in stand up comedy.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:31

That is the truth. How did you prepare for the Tonight Show?

Wendy Liebman 19:34

You know, while I don't even know. I mean, I am grateful for it. But okay, so how did I prepare? I probably only had four and a half minutes of material at the time, but I think they went through different versions of a set that I presented to them. And so I did the show. I felt really good about it. And then Johnny Carson went like that to me, but the audience at home didn't see it. So

Jeff Dwoskin 20:00

I watched the clip. Okay, so I've heard you talk about this. So that gets cut off on the clap, right? Or like they cut

Wendy Liebman 20:08

me everything right? Or if he calls you over, I was sad about it. So I was in my dressing room. And apparently he heard that I was sad about it. Johnny Carson, and Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon came to my dressing room, and I had grown up watching him and here he was standing in front of me, it was surreal. I feel like I left the room and went into the next room, because I don't remember. I just feel like the whole thing was a holograph. That's how I've described it before. I do remember both Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon were really tall. I don't know if that's true. But that's what I remember.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:52

I haven't met him. So I don't know. But I know. But you have done the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson one more time than I have. I was I was like wondering, I was like why didn't Wendy go back on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson then I when I looked at the numbers or the years like you got on at the tail end of Johnny on The Tonight

Wendy Liebman 21:12

Show? Yes. And you know if they want to bring me back they could have if I had another five minutes that I've liked, because they've brought people back right away like Steven, right. He's my other favorite comedian. When I first saw Steven, right on the night show watching him in college on my little black and white TV set. I thought this is the funniest thing I've ever seen. And then I was flying home from Boston to New York, and I see him get on the plane, but he couldn't remember exactly how I knew him. And I thought, oh, that's Art Garfunkel. Like even right, they kind of look like so I was gonna say something to him as he got off the plane. And I never saw him get off the plane. Like I waited for him. And I don't know where he went. Like that was so Steven. Right. But yeah, they brought him back, like right away. And Roseanne too, I think so they could have brought me back.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:02

But I should have brought you back. So I love Steven, right. Also, he is hilarious. Another Boston comic

Wendy Liebman 22:08

Braintree or something? Yeah, he performed at the dining hall, which was a little Chinese restaurant that they stopped doing it right when I started doing comedy. So I missed that. But I heard all the stories about it. And

Jeff Dwoskin 22:20

Brian talks a little bit about that. I remember him mentioning that you don't care when someone says ding how

Wendy Liebman 22:25

you know? Just yeah, just saw gray hair. Hold on. Oh, good. I'm a prop comic now.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:34

It's windy top. Alright, so another huge talk show parents, Larry Sanders Show I rewatched this yesterday.

Wendy Liebman 22:43

It was like the guy was cheating on his wife in a hotel room. And he saw me on TV doing jokes about marriage or something.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:52

Yeah. tambores character is trying to pay a prostitute to give him a hand job. He had just gotten divorced or was separating and was going through an emotional spiral. And then you were on. Yeah, you were doing the that was funny though. Funny. I love that show. That was one of

Wendy Liebman 23:10

my I love that show. And Garry Shandling was a fan and that's why he put me on the show. He put a few female comedians on that show. He was very supportive Carol Siskin and of course Jimmy Garoppolo. She was a regular on that show. She was great. But I love that show. And I love Gary. So to be part of that surreal pinch me, though. This is what it's like to have been on Polaris to the show.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:38

Okay, cool. I and then let's see here. I got you won American Comedy Award in 1997. For female stand up comedian of the year. Brad Shoemaker. One male car has been on the show. I've hung out with him when he was in town last time. He's a great guy. Right?

Wendy Liebman 23:55

I just did a podcast.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:57

I know. That's I realized it was. Oh, he's like, because he was talking about how did it go for you when you won that award? Like, Well, how did it change your life in terms of the impact it had either getting work or in the industry or how other people saw you?

Wendy Liebman 24:15

I had been nominated before maybe once or twice, and you know, obviously didn't win. So it just felt like a relief. And I think everything you do in life is cumulative. So it didn't change anything overnight. And same way. Arson didn't change anything overnight. But they're all it's all cumulative. It's like, this is my suitcase of experiences and good for my resume.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:44

And then I was watching a clip on your website. You're on the Roseanne show. So Roseanne Barr had mentioned she was one that actually presented the American Comedy Award to you, Natalie Tomlin and Lily Tomlin. Roseanne didn't mention that Oh, I didn't say me with myself with Lily Tomlin. So did you get to meet Gregory Hines I saw on your cup because you had the whole episode, Gregory Hines was on the same episode as you got to meet

Wendy Liebman 25:10

him two other times. Not that time, but I got to open for him twice on the road. And there. I haven't met a nicer celebrity than Gregory Hines. He was just so generous of spirit. And at the end of his show, he brought all the kids on stage to tap dance with him and me, and not really.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:35

I was like, Oh, that was been awesome. I think

Wendy Liebman 25:38

at one point, I thought I'm gonna go out there and like do a Fanny Brice thing. But it was a moment for the kids. So yes, I have. I did get to meet him

Jeff Dwoskin 25:49

when you were on the Roseanne show. So there were two things. One, I had a question. When you're doing an interview, and you're doing a lot of your jokes. Like I'm assuming Roseanne is aware that you're going to be kind of landing some of these. Is it difficult to do that for you? I mean, maybe because of the timing. i It's sometimes I've was watching and sometimes I was like I don't think Roseanne is realizing she's doing a is waiting and giving Wendy a time for that punch line. She

Wendy Liebman 26:15

I don't remember that show. I mean, I remember being on the show. And I remember for like some kind of like bombarding me with trying to set me up with somebody.

Jeff Dwoskin 26:23

That was my nice question. She found a Jewish, nice Jewish boy that was trying to set you

Wendy Liebman 26:29

I think I was already with somebody. And so it was just so awkward. So but I didn't want to talk about my relationship. So that's anyway, as I said earlier, I'm still finding my voice. So back then I might I might not have known to listen to her. I find it easier now to say everything I want to say by being more connected with the person that I'm talking to. Hopefully you feel that way.

Jeff Dwoskin 26:53

Yes. I'm feel 100% connected to you right now. And I hope you're feeling it too. But we gotta take a quick break for our sponsors. And we're back with my amazing conversation with Wendy Lee men but to dive into her late night performances with Letterman and more hour back. I know you did the Letterman show like a million times. Is there like like a home club? Is there like a home late night show? Where like, meaning like where you feel the most comfortable? Yeah, like you go on Letterman, you're like, because I watched this whole super clip of you on Letterman. And appearance after our parents after parents? Yeah, I'll send it I'll find it, I'll send it

Wendy Liebman 27:31

I would have gone on any of the shows.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:35

Where there's some that were more easier or just felt easier to like, do the comedy like you know, I you know, like you do comedy, certain places. It just, you're just at home and you can just, you know, you just crush no matter why. And then some places just feels a little different.

Wendy Liebman 27:50

I love being on I was on Jimmy Fallon before he had the Tonight Show. He had the Late Show. And that audience was just, they were like the audience at a club called the Ice House where it feels like the studio audience and they laugh in all the right places. But actually, it was Steven Wright, who told me before I did the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. Did I mention that I did the night?

Jeff Dwoskin 28:19

Okay, it came up.

Wendy Liebman 28:20

I happened to meet Stephen Wright with Ron Lynch. They were very good friends or our or our friends. And I said I'm doing the Tonight Show. And do you have any advice? And he said, perform for the people in the audience. Like don't think about the people at home? Because you just have to make these people laugh.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:40

That's great advice. Yeah. Because then it probably just translates translates out. So oh, your husband, Jeffrey Sherman, his father, uncle, the Sherman brothers. They wrote all these Disney I just happen to stumble on this. I thought it was quite interesting. And you you've even been in a documentary about it. But they they wrote it's a small, small world. And so I thought that was

Wendy Liebman 29:07

I know, my husband is the funniest person I know. And he has given me so many jokes. And sometimes I just write stuff down in the middle of the night that he you know, when he sleep talks, but he is the funniest person I know. But he's so shy. And so he never wanted to do stand up comedy, although every once in a while he's like, can't go to five minutes. And that never works out. I mean, he's never done it. He was a producer and writer on a show called Boy Meets World. Yeah, heard of that. And he produced my document or my stand up special taller on TV that we did for Showtime. And he also did the documentary about his father and uncle. The Sherman Brothers called the boys because that's what wants his knees to call them the boy Boys, and it's Richard and Robert Sherman. And the story is they wrote all this music together like Mary Poppins and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. And they wrote, as you said, small worlds and you're 16 you're beautiful in your mind. And they wrote for Annette Funacello, and they wrote movies and, and yet you don't know them, but you know, their music. So Jeff and his cousin did a documentary. And it showed how they needed each other to work, but didn't always get along. And it was really the conflict. They're complex that gave rise to all their beautiful art. So yes, my husband inspired the song spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down because he came home from school one day, and his dad said, What did you do? And he said, they gave us the polio vaccine. And he goes, they let you give you let them give you a shot. And he said, no, they put the medicine on a sugar cube and they put that on a spoon and we just ate sugar. Yeah, so he has a little claim to fame. My husband.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:08

That's pretty cool. That's really cool, actually. So in the moving Saving Mr. Banks, the Tom Hanks movie than which is about making of Mary Poppins. Now that I'm thinking about it. The Sherman Brothers, they were portrayed in that movie, right?

Wendy Liebman 31:23

Yes. So Jason Schwartzman played my uncle in law, Richard and BJ Novak. Well, this is even weird. And this is how small the world is actually BJs dad was one of Jonathan CASAS that best friends and included jokes from the Boston comedians, Brian Kiley, myself and Jonathan in this book he wrote about stand up comedy and humor. So that was DJ dad. Vijay probably wasn't even five at the time. So it's so weird that then he went on to play my father in law in a movie.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:00

Wow. No, and it's a small world. It's a small world after

Wendy Liebman 32:05

don't Johnson? You don't want to ruin this.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:09

You wrote the greatest ear worm song of all time? Well,

Wendy Liebman 32:14

it's the most played song. Oh, yeah. I

Jeff Dwoskin 32:16

believe that it's nonstop at Disney World. Playing right now. Too many, many. Alright, so that was, that's pretty cool. And then the aristocrats you made quite a splash in that I loved your joke and that you went a completely different way with it, which was very unique. You don't want to ruin it for anybody? No, no, I don't even I don't want to get this show censored.

Wendy Liebman 32:38

But I didn't want to. I didn't want to do it the other way. Like, I really didn't like the edict. So I just made up my own.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:46

No, it's hilarious. No, you will everyone will have to go watch the movie. Well, they're

Wendy Liebman 32:50

worried because they heard me do like when they came to filmmaker, they were like, I don't think she knows what the joke is. And then I said the punch line. They were like, ah,

Jeff Dwoskin 33:01

yeah, so you bring windy, Lehman's to the table, you're gonna get something creative. You're funny. You're funny,

Wendy Liebman 33:08

and you have perfect teeth.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:12

Not perfect. The hop shocks. Okay. Oh, Bob, hope you met Bob Hope

Wendy Liebman 33:18

it did me Bob Hope I got to open for him in Indianapolis once in front of 500 people outside and he was so sweet. And, you know, you've, you hear this sometimes where there's a performer and it's not until they get on stage that they come alive. And you've seen it with Tony Bennett recently that he just comes alive on stage. And I think Bob Hope was at that point where he was not too sure what was going on until he got on stage. And then it was like bam, hope. I was also on his variety show. And that's where I met Phyllis Diller. And I got to tell Phyllis, that when I was like 11, this isn't some a lot of like the press that I've done, because it's my favorite story about comedy. When I was 11. I heard her on my Douglas are Merv Griffin. And she was saying, you have to make the audience laugh. And then just when they think that they're done, you have to hit him again. And I thought I'm like 11 I'm like, I know what you mean lady. So I feel like I was my comedy was informed by Phyllis she made me understand how I thought even at that age, and anyway, so I got to be on the Bob Hope show. And then I have since in my life now met one of his head writers Jean parrot, because he and his daughter Linda parrot came to one of my shows, I started talking to them from the audience and I realized who they were and then we became acquainted afterwards and I've spent some time with them and it's really cool to hear his story. He said that I should get them for your podcast.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:02

I would love that. So, you know, interestingly enough, I never met Phyllis Diller. But people do love talking about Phyllis Diller. But I did meet once a few times a comedian named Jim Wiggins. And I was working with him. And he was an old timer. I don't know if you know that anyway, but he was like one of those Turing guys. He was everywhere he was on I think, Last Comic Standing at one point, it was old. And we were working together and he noticed I was looking over the audience. And he's like, Jeff, come here. Phyllis Diller told me this. So he's actually giving me advice from Bill Stiller that she had given him. So it's passed on to me, she's like, look him in the eye. Gotta look him in the eye when you're talking to him as Yep, you may not get the laugh, but you'll get all laugh. He that's what you got to do. And I was like I was. And I swear to God, it's like, it's one of those things where it's like, if someone gives you this that one little tidbit and it's like kind of changes. Yeah,

Wendy Liebman 35:53

right. I have such a funny Phyllis story. And then another story to piggyback on what you just said. So I got invited to a holiday party at Phyllis his house once and she brought everybody into the foyer and made announcements and don't use this bathroom because the locks broken from the inside. And we'll have to call the fire department blah, blah, blah. So like an hour later, somebody gets stuck in the bathroom. And we have to call the fire department. It was Phyllis.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:27

That by the way, I mentioned earlier like my greatest fear. My second greatest fear would be at someone else's house. Use the toilet and the toilet stops working. That would be right up there.

Wendy Liebman 36:37

Yes, Buzz Aldrin was at that party, too. Oh, I know. That was surreal. But um, the other thing I was gonna say about how Jeff Wiggins had given you the advice that he had heard from Phyllis, I have found that when I stand on stage, the first thing I tried to do, because sometimes I forget, because when you get on stage, sometimes you lose your mind. And you don't remember what you were thinking to do. But I try to remember to do something called tonglen, which I think is Buddhist, I'm not really sure. It's a breathing practice that I got from reading Natalie Goldberg's books. She's a writer who writes a lot about writing, and tonglen is it's anti, what's the word? I'm looking for? Jeff? You don't think it should work. But

Jeff Dwoskin 37:28

anti intuitive? Yeah, counterintuitive, counterintuitive.

Wendy Liebman 37:31

So you're looking at the audience, and you breathe in. You don't take it in, but you try to extract their negativity and all the shitty things that happened that day and their problems with the parking attendant or whatever, all their stress and anxiety, negativity, and you try to breathe out positive energy. And who knows if it works, but it seems like it does.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:58

That's a good technique. Yeah, a really good technique.

Wendy Liebman 38:02

And talk to the people directly and look at the

Jeff Dwoskin 38:06

you know, what, you know, when I would look at them when I started looking right in the eyes of people, especially like, you know, the obsession you get with like, somebody who's maybe not laughing or, you know, like, I don't know, that never happened. Everyone else, but sometimes it happens to other people, where there's just one person right or so. But I found like, if you stare at them, and then they smile, you can get an Elise smile, like in my head. I think that is like a video game. Like where it goes, you know? Like 25 that, yeah, like, and then you just move on to the next person. Yeah, exactly. Then you just move on to the next person. Because once you win them over, you're done. You can move on. Well, one

Wendy Liebman 38:41

time there was a guy sitting up front and he was like this, he was like in the front row like this. And then after the show, his group came up and said hello, and I was like, Oh, you looked like you weren't enjoying he said that was that was the greatest time

Jeff Dwoskin 38:55

some people don't laugh that's like the like we in our heads right? You need you want a very specific type of reaction, but sometimes people that's not how people process it. I've never it's like,

Wendy Liebman 39:04

oh, it's such a weird job we have like that. That's our goal.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:09

When you watch other comedians yeah, sometimes you can obviously belly laugh but you do not laugh as much as you would you think like when you watch someone else like just because you're processing at a different on a different level. No,

Wendy Liebman 39:22

I laugh hysterically I cackle. Where are you performing?

Jeff Dwoskin 39:28

I've been doing the podcast more than performing because like during COVID, I kind of missed and then they were bringing people back and I'm like, I think it's too early. And that was like 2021 so I missed that whole year. And because they booked up but then they ended up canceling everything. Anyway, a month later. I'm at the mark Ridley's comedy castle. Have you? Have you been there? Have you played there and love that room? So great. It's so great. Once. Why don't we get you back?

Wendy Liebman 39:55

Okay, that's your task.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:00

We need some Wendy Liebman in Michigan. That's what we need.

Wendy Liebman 40:02

Well, I have performed in Michigan, wherever you've worked for him, Joe is in Dearborn.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:07

So isn't Dearborn is no longer there. There was Joey's Dearborn there was Joy's Lavonia, I think when I started comedy, there was even a third one. But then by the time I started, that was gone.

Wendy Liebman 40:19

I only did Dearborn. And I had one of my funniest shows of all time, do tell at Joey's Dearborn. So it's in the basement of this Italian restaurant was really good food, I recall. And there were eight people there on a Sunday, I pretty much just started going on the road. Although I'd had those six years of experience of cutting my teeth on the Boston crowds. So I felt like by the end of the night, we were just doing callbacks. Because a callback is just an inside joke that you make with the audience. It's like you're writing code to bring back a memory of when you left the first time, right. And there's also something funny about repeating it. I knew everybody's name. There were eight of us. I think I bought them drinks. And yeah, it was just a Boolean. Like, I felt like I was a POC on an air hockey board. Just floating. It was really fun. That was one of my favorite shows.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:20

That is awesome. And it's it just goes to show you like a lot of times people get so obsessed with audience size. And sometimes you're gonna have just as much fun with a real tight small audience as like a big Aditya. Allah, big audience can be a nightmare to Tinder dating.

Wendy Liebman 41:34

Yeah, intimidating.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:36

The thing I remember about Joey's Dearborn was that it was very, it was wide. So the stage was like in the middle of the room. And it didn't, it wasn't deep, but it was very wide. So it went all the way to your left and all the way to your right. I don't know if this is all over the country, but they never knew how to seat people. So if I were there, and there were only eight people, there would be two all the way to the left and two all the way to the right. And then maybe two and so like you never know where to focus. Because there's it's like, because that's where they want to set set. It's like no, put them on the front to get

Wendy Liebman 42:11

I know, well, people like to be anonymous, because sometimes it's embarrassing

Jeff Dwoskin 42:16

to laugh. Right about Yeah, it's Yeah, so

Wendy Liebman 42:19

we're anonymous. You are in the dark in the corner, the easier

Jeff Dwoskin 42:23

it is. That is true. That is true as well.

Wendy Liebman 42:26

I've shared enough of my philosophies with you.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:29

Yeah, I'm done. This is just too much

Wendy Liebman 42:31

fun. This too. I just said I had so much fun, but I feel like I'm being so pedantic and

Jeff Dwoskin 42:36

oh, no, I was kidding. I enjoyed every every time. I've waited a million years to talk to you. You're not we got two more hours now.

Wendy Liebman 42:45

We could do part two, we could do part two when I find my voice back. Well,

Jeff Dwoskin 42:51

we'll circle around. We'll circle right now. Yeah, no, I appreciate you spending this much time with me. I really do. So much fun.

Wendy Liebman 42:58

I'm I've been looking at your wall behind you. Is that your wall of fame?

Jeff Dwoskin 43:04

I have. I gotta kinda like goes all the way.

Wendy Liebman 43:08

Oh my god. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 43:10

I'm a huge comic con guy. So I like I love going to Comic Con and and meeting the celebrities and getting their autographs and the eight by 10s. And then my wife finally this one broom in the house is mine. And so it just all it is is autographs and pictures of me with people. Who is the coolest

Wendy Liebman 43:26

autograph if you got

Jeff Dwoskin 43:28

the coolest autograph. Like that gave you the most jolts. I'm gonna say Henry Winkler. And the first time I met Henry Winkler, I've met him twice, once was like at a Jewish event, and then he was speaking and then once at a comic con, and the first time I met him, I've met with and I've talked with lots of people, but there was something about all of a sudden the realization that I was standing with the Fonz that I completely shut down. I remember completely shutting the icon, even kind of process, Roz's anything. And I think the only other time I ever got real Tongue Tied was with when I was working with Dave cool. Yay. I don't know why Dave QA, but I just I couldn't get a word. I don't know. I just, I remember, I in between shows, I think I was featuring. And he said to me, we're behind the it Mark relays. And he says he's about to walk on stage. He goes, Jeff, are you going to be here after my show? And I'm like, Yeah, and I'm thinking myself, David. Good. Oh, he wants to hang out with me. I'm like, Yeah, I'll be here after the show. Because I Oh, good. Can you make sure that the emcee remembers to bring my shirts? And I'm like, Yeah, I'll tell the emcee to do that for that walk away defeat it.

Wendy Liebman 44:41

You ought to know.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:44

Of course, that song. Perfect. Excellent. i That's perfect. Let's end on that. I don't think we can. I don't think we can talk. I know. So when do you think this is such a delight? Yes. Thank

Wendy Liebman 44:54

you. Oh, thank

Jeff Dwoskin 44:56

you. Tell everyone where they can keep up with you on the social medias.

Wendy Liebman 45:00

Though I am on Twitter a lot at Wendy Liebman. And I'm just in the process of updating my website, which it's like a whole project. It's like having a baby that I have to. It's like I forgot about her. And now I'm just really making it my own. Check that out Wendy liebman.com. And I'll be opening for Bill Maher in Hawaii over New Years in Honolulu. So with Jeff Ross.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:32

Oh, that's awesome.

Wendy Liebman 45:34

That's my I mean, I've gigs here but yeah, that's the gig, everybody. That's my destination gig.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:42

That is awesome. So why I opened for Jeff Ross once he was I think of him as he was the most famous person at I worked with where he was at his fame. You know what I mean? Wow. You know, I mean, like it with the ropes and everything. Like, like, I remember like getting all like, Oh, I was nervous, but I never met a cool guy. And Jeffrey Ross. Oh, you're gonna have a great time. That sounds like a great lineup. Very cool, Wendy.

Wendy Liebman 46:08

All right. Keep in touch. So much for having me.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:13

Thanks for slumming it on my podcast. Bye. Bye. How amazing was Wendy Lehman keep those applause going for Wendy Liebman. Yay. Check out our website Wendy liebman.com. Follow her on Twitter links in the show notes. I love talking to Wendy so fun. All right. Well with the interview over can only mean one thing and that's right. It's time for another trending hashtag from the family of hashtags that hashtag are round up download the free always free hashtag roundup app at the Google Play Store iTunes App Store follow us on Twitter at hashtag round up tweet along with us and one day one of your tweets may show up on a future episode of Classic conversations fame and fortune awaits you this episode is hashtag is #MyLowBarSecretTalent brought to us by fletchy tags a weekly Game On hashtag around US Secret talents of course inspired by Wendy's time on America's Got Talent but these are a special kind of talents. These are low bar what's the lowest bar talent you think you got to offer the world? That's what Fletcher tacks asked the internet and that's how Twitter responded with #MyLowBarSecretTalent tweet your own tag us at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter we'll show you some Twitter love and the means is #MyLowBarSecretTalent tweets you can judge for yourself. Mad cats low bar secret talent is pretending everything is going exactly as planned. That's how I meant everything to go I hear ya Mad Cat PJs low bar secret talented ear wiggling always good for a giggle Dan plays a mean kazoo these are some #MyLowBarSecretTalent I salute all of you Sam's bringing to the table making a list for shopping and then not using it at the grocery store just weighing in at low bar Ravel Carmen can sleep with both our eyes closed Challenge Accepted nerd Jewboy knows #MyLowBarSecretTalent is taken the last slice of pizza bad box marks slow bars secret talent keeping his beard relatively food free. Elizabeth Kay is rocking the eye roll these are some amazing #MyLowBarSecretTalent tweets Justin's down is making the coffee disappear vinyl fan Jan can pick up small items off the floor with her toes jealous about that Victor is constantly over and under estimating himself thus putting himself right in the middle that is a hell of a low bar secret talent Jake can pretty much always not cost in churches or funerals way to keep it strong Jake Dan only Zul has mastered the Irish accent at a party and our final #MyLowBarSecretTalent Fletchy who was exceptionally napping. Right. Oh, these low bars secret talents. Yeah. Hope you don't bump into any of them. Yeah, you're gonna read how you're going to rank and do well with the hashtag over and the interview over? It can only mean one thing. That's right. Episode 176 has come to a close. I want to thank my very special guest Wendy Liebman for joining me. And of course, I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

CTS Announcer 49:37

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai