#313 That’s Gold, Steve Hytner, Gold

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Julia, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 339 of cool asset conversations. As always, I am your host Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be the best my friends the best episode ever with my guest Steve Hytner you know him as Kenny banya on Seinfeld in the line of fire. Good luck, Charlie, The X Files and so much more. And that is coming up in just a few seconds and it needs two seconds. Larry Joe Campbell joined me last week we talked According to Jim the Orville Detroit Second City and so much more. Do not miss that amazing episode. But right now I got an episode. That's gold baby gold for you. It's coming up right now. I got the opportunity to work with Steve Hytner. We did comedy together for a weekend had a great time. I'm excited to share my conversation with you enjoy. All right. I'm excited to introduce my next guest. You'll love the mind Modern Family, two and a half man friends hung. He's been on every show you seen, but he'll always be known as Kenny banya from Seinfeld, but share hands together for Steve Hytner. Wow,

Steve Hytner 1:46

that was that was the introduction I was trying to get you to do the entire weekend. You finally nailed it. Practice

Jeff Dwoskin 1:53

makes perfect. That's amazing. Every day. Now, I

Steve Hytner 1:57

forgot to ask a question before we started, but I'm just going to ask it you know now we're on Zoom. Is this is this video? Do you present it? Or do you is this just audio when you present it?

Jeff Dwoskin 2:09

I generally just do audio because I only have time to do one thing. And occasionally maybe I'll make a promo. If you feel you look presentable enough.

Steve Hytner 2:19

I say see, because I showered before this because it was zoom. So if I assumed that this could possibly be video,

Jeff Dwoskin 2:29

well, then I will go out of my way to make sure we do a video. A

Steve Hytner 2:33

lot of times showering is more about odor and that really wouldn't have mattered either way.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:37

Right? Right. Yeah. Yes, I shower too. So I put a hat on though but because I you know, sometimes I your routines I like I forgot to do my hair. So it was like my

Steve Hytner 2:50

you saved so you didn't have to use any gel or mousse today. Exactly. All right. Well, this has to be riveting. Gold.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:58

Well, comedian and actor well first, let me say I had a great time working with you. And Mark. It was so much fun. Sometimes you get to hang out you talk to headliners. And I felt you were good. You were fun to hang out with

Steve Hytner 3:12

comedians could be an odd group and headliners even more so I think although this breed of new young comedians can be pretty weird as

Jeff Dwoskin 3:20

well. Well, but you and Mark were very welcoming. And you guys were together so you got your own little bond going on. But the So anyway, thank you for making me part of the group at least for a weekend. My wife enjoyed hanging out with you as well. When we all went to the bar together

Steve Hytner 3:37

Yeah, that was actually fun. I mean, you know, I that's part of the stuff you know, they talk about it in sports all the time about you know what they really misses the clubhouse and missing the camaraderie with the other athletes and stuff. And and you know, some degree it's like that with comedians, although a lot of times you'll you'll meet a comedian you're like I don't wanna hang out that guy no matter what but also for the most part, you know, there's a lot of camaraderie of doing the you know, the club circuit you know, you're working with other people that are at different levels with you will have where they are in their career and stuff and if the people are cool, it's fun. It's fun to bank off and it was

Jeff Dwoskin 4:13

fun I enjoyed your you didn't hold back when we had our banter

Steve Hytner 4:18

you didn't hold back Oh, you that's not that's not really in my repertoire the holding back but I'll work on it.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:26

No, no, I enjoy. It made me feel one of the group that you were must have my balls if I said something or whatever. But yeah, comedian interactor which came first

Steve Hytner 4:36

actor. So I was very, I came from a very sports minded childhood, as I'm as I'm still a sports fanatic. So I had this idea. Everything was looked at in a sports prism of competitiveness. So a friend of mine a year older than me, very simply, he did a play, and everybody thought he was hilarious. And in my mind, I was like, funnier than he is. And that's how you know It's not a very artistic story, but it's basically how that happened. So but also the funnier would make you think I'm thinking about stand up, but it wasn't, it was a play. I wanted to do a play and be funnier than he was I did a play, I was funnier than he was. And so then I just kind of went on my, on this route of acting. And I kind of had this idea of, you know, when, when I played little league, I tried to go for high school first base, I was Little League All Star first base, I went for high school first base, it was so clear, I was not gonna be the first baseman, it was unbelievable. There was a guy there, Harry Democritus, that was so good, that he was clearly gonna be the first base. So when I went into acting after high school, I kind of went with the idea of I'm just going to continue to pursue acting. And so I clearly hit a ceiling where I'm not as good as these other people where they're all Haryana mockus I can't I'm not as good as they are. And as I pursued my acting career, I I never really felt like I ran into that. I always felt like it's just good to these people are and then stand up happened, because, you know, it's hard to get acting work. And there was the comedy explosion in the 80s. And I was in Manhattan at the time, so if there was some stage time to be had, so that's how I ended up starting doing that to train as an actor. Yeah, very, very much. So I studied with like typing the serious teachers I studied with outta Haugan, Sanford Meisner, just the top of the top. That's what I wanted to do. I was moved writing in Greenwich Village, I lived in Manhattan, I was studying with the best of the best of very serious actor, obviously, I had some comedic overtones to it. But uh, yeah, I went and studied with the best of the best, the weird thing is I started getting a little more traction with stand up. When I started doing that, then I was starting to make kind of a living like Not, not good living, but I wasn't waiting tables anymore. So I was making kind of a living at stand up. And in my mind, I was like, You know what, I really don't want to head fully down this. I really believe in myself as an actor, I really want to do this. So I moved to LA. And when I moved to LA, I said to myself, I'm not going to do stand up anymore as I'm going to just pursue acting. So anyway, I was I was far far enough along that I could get on at the Improv in LA, or the Laugh Factory in LA. And I did and then people would see me and they go, Hey, like an agent, or a manager would come up to me afterwards go, Hey, I was pretty good. I really enjoyed that. Go, would you like that? And he goes, Yeah, we'd like to let it go. Yeah, I don't want to do that. I just want to act. And then sometimes that it's set them off in a bad way. But then eventually, I found some reputation that was cool with that. And then I I mean, you know, the reader, the slow the Reader's Digest quick version of it is I started working. I just started where I was working as an actor for 20 something years, and I did no stand up. None. So when I the first time I did stand up again, was when we did the final Seinfeld, they were people were throwing offers add us to where we would watch the final Seinfeld. So I got the offer I ended up taking was a charity event for a radio station at the comic strip, which was the club I came out of in New York. And they flew me first class paid me a bunch of money to watch the final Seinfeld there and also performed they had a show before it so hadn't performed in 20 years, or 15 years. At that point. I don't know what it was at that point. And so I had to go out and do stand up. And I was so concerned, like, if I had my chops or not that I actually brought a Seinfeld script on stage with me that I was going to raffle off. And just figured that would take up a bunch of the time, if I really didn't feel I could do stand up. But I got back up. And I mean, I fell into the stand up in two seconds. And I was right back into it. And so that when I did the final Seinfeld, that's when I first did stand up again for the first time in probably 20 years. Wow.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:33

Alright, so going back 20 years real quick. How much of an act did you have? If you're already getting past at all these clubs and all that kind of stuff? Like how I was stashed as a comedian, where are you at that point, but I will not I

Steve Hytner 8:47

was not. I mean, when I was in New York when I first started in New York, and I said, Well, let me try stand up, because it's blown up. And there seems to be a lot of stage time, I had no act, of course, also, I did an odd thing. I brought a guitar on stage with me when I did stand up. And there's nothing odd about that unless you don't play the guitar. So I did not play the guitar, I found I don't know what I was doing. I'm sure there's some subliminal protection thing, something between you and the audience. But there was also like, you know, that little belly of the guitar that you can kind of look down at, and I had my act written and paper taped on there. So that kind of helped. And then I had the guitar in front of me. And then I had the guitar long enough that I started using it like when you're starting out, you tell some bad jokes. So I would like going on the guitar after a bad joke. And that would get a laugh and all of a sudden I'm like, oh my god, I'm incorporating it into my act now. And I don't know when it happened. But eventually I just said I'm sick of lugging this guitar around. So I just stopped carrying the guitar, but when I first did stand up, I did wear a guitar. And now this part of it to answer your question sounds a little humblebrag ish. So probably it is, but I think I passed too fast at the comic strip. Like I pass it the comics drip probably the I would say the like the fifth or sixth time I ever did stand up. And Lucien Lucien hold he was he's anybody who knows the comic strip in those days knows him. He's a legendary guy. He decided if you passed or failed when i At that time he passed me but what he said I thought was so insulting. And it took me a lifetime to realize it wasn't he passed me and it first of all, I was stunned. I was passing up the sixth time I ever did stand up. He goes, I don't know about your material. But you stand there as good as anybody we go as like, What the hell does that mean? What? So I was forced, mortally wounded, that he attacked my material, because every young comedian thinks it's all about material, not realizing that he was saying you have a stage presence, you stupid son of a bitch. Years later, I realized the compliment it was, but again, I passed very, very fast at the comic strip, which then meant you went right to the bottom of the schedule, and you just went on, if people were still in the room, you weren't even on the schedule. It's just if people were still there

Jeff Dwoskin 10:56

I had. So it wasn't something that was it easy, then to just give it up. I mean, if you're at the bottom rung, even though you pass, which is huge. It's a long track

Steve Hytner 11:05

on his own truck. But then after that I started doing you know, every place in the tri state area had comedy night, you know, it was the mid 80s. And so you could go out on a Tuesday and go out to a club somewhere or a bar in Connecticut that was having comedy nights, and you started scratching together a living, like I said, enough of a living where I wasn't waiting tables anymore. So at that point, you know, I was saying I was getting, I could see I was going down the road of stand up, and I really didn't want to give up on the acting part. And that's when I said, Well, if I'm going to pursue acting one more time, or at least a little more, I think I should go out to Hollywood. I think I should go out to film and TV and give it a swing there. And I did. And it worked out.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:44

It worked out. I'd say so where did you did you? Wait tables anywhere? Notable? I mean, there's somebody who was like, Yeah, telling a story somewhere like yeah, it was a Chili's. And yeah,

Steve Hytner 11:54

I mean, if you if you knew New York in the 80s, you knew O'Neill's which was owned by the actor Patrick O'Neill, O'Neill's on 57th and six. So it was a pretty well known Irish Steakhouse in the heart of Manhattan. And the great thing for me doing it was it first of all, the checks were big, because it's steaks, right? And then it was an Irish sort of steak house. So you could be as smart as and you didn't have to, you know, you didn't have to worry about it. So it was perfect for me. So I made you know, unbelievably great money and could be rude to the customers aged and I would always be rude where they didn't know I was being rude. Like, I had certain things. Like if they asked me anything about food, I would say it's a delightful blend of East meets West. What are they gonna do with that? Right? They're gonna argue with me, right? They asked me anything about wine, I would say it's challenging, yet familiar. What are they going to do with that? I just got to mock them as I was waiting on them. Yeah, the waiting tables was good. But eventually, you know, look at my whole through my whole career. I was obsessed with monetizing, because I can I'm, can I make money at it? I never wanted to do Macbeth in upstate New York and get great reviews and never make a penny acting it and not that there's anything wrong with that, but not for me. I was like, Can I make money at acting? Can I make money at stand up? And that was my that was my barometer. I

Jeff Dwoskin 13:09

think you met him because I Googled your name and did not find one raving review. That's very good. That's very good.

Steve Hytner 13:20

I didn't, you could spend even more time searching and the result would not change.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:27

Okay? So Meisner, when you studied Meisner, give me it, okay.

Steve Hytner 13:32

So so In contrast, the OODA Hoggin was about doing all this back work and understanding your character and doing tons of research and what kind of flowers that character liked and what kind of would do that character like knowing your character and everything about it. That's one way Meisner technique was much more acting truthfully, under imaginary circumstances. That's the phrase but it was also very much a pinch, ouch. Where the the person what they say to you is the pinch and you respond with the Ouch. So it's much more a, in the moment, spontaneous sort of work. For me that was much much more interesting. And I had spent years studying Gouda and I chose as soon as I went to Meisner, I was like, Ah, this is more me. This is more me. So almost to the point where just by the nature of pinch, ouch. You would think that could lend itself not that it's supposed to, but it could lend itself to something more improvisational, just the idea of pinch. Ouch. And certainly, any sort of skill at stand up would probably lead to more improvisational, so maybe, you know, it was just meant to be that that style would be the one that I would respond to once I started acting a lot. And then certainly once I once I was on Seinfeld, I feel like I was always kind of pre judged when I went in the room in a way that they were kind of like it was funny to me that I started with such serious serious the thoughts and serious teachers. And when that by that point, when I walked in the room, they were like oh, he's The funny guy, which you know, I am. But as an actor, you like to think you're a chameleon, and you can do everything.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:04

So you're making them laugh too hard. And then that's how they saw you,

Steve Hytner 15:08

you know what that does happen, actually does happen. And so but you know, at that point, look, I always thought of it this way, building a career as an actor, certainly, because you want to be able to do different things, it's different than stand up. As an actor. It's like an umbrella, you want to have a closed umbrella, and you want to poke your way in with that point of the umbrella, then if you're lucky enough, that you'll be able to open that umbrella when you're already in and you have enough behind you to be able to open that umbrella and show all the different levels that you can do. But a lot of times, if you're lucky enough to puncture your way in with a closed umbrella, they want you to do that again and again. And again. Which is you know, not because I always hear myself talking, I was like, and to some actor who's worked for years and who was tried for years and doesn't get to work. I'm sure they listen to that and go oh, yeah, that must be so horrible when they asked you to work again. To work so much. Yeah, I know. You want me to do the same thing again for that much money. Ah,

Jeff Dwoskin 16:10

inch Ouch.

Steve Hytner 16:14

Exactly. Okay,

Jeff Dwoskin 16:15

so a serious acting. And then talk to me about your first role. Alright, so

Steve Hytner 16:21

it's just a classic thing about I don't know if this be even interesting. But we were doing a play called The tavern up in the regional theater up in Albany, and I was getting paid for it. And you know, I had so many, so many brilliant acting ideas in my mind. And so I'm meeting with the director. And he goes, so have you looked at the script? Yes, he cast me and I said, yeah, yeah, he goes, Well, what are your thoughts? I go, Well, here's what I here's what I'm thinking. I said, you know, a lot of times I get very broad ideas of what I think the character is. So sometimes in rehearsal, I like to actually act out those two dimensional ideas, just just to get them out of my head and done. And then maybe I can get to something a little more layered and not as two dimensional. But so if you see me early on, she's doing work that looks really obvious. I think I'm just trying to get all that out. And he looks at me and he after after I spoke a lot longer than that. He looks at me, and he goes, Well, we won't be having time for that. Okay, nevermind.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:22

How long did you do theater before you started doing movies and TV,

Steve Hytner 17:25

I did theater probably about four or five years. I did summer stock theater. I did regional theater. Then I got like a one line on a soap opera in New York, doing all that and then this and then the standup came in. So yeah, I did a bunch of theater. I did a bunch of theater for five years at theater. I liked theater. And also when they get when I finally did stand up, and he said You stand there as good as anybody we got. It probably came from my you know, my presence on stage from doing so much theater these days.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:56

Do you rather go do a play? Do you consider the stand up now kind of your theater moment? Or, you know, would you like to still one day land? You know, you still audition for TV roles? And

Steve Hytner 18:09

yeah, I you know, I don't as much right now right now I'm just doing stand up. And but if a TV or film rose, like I have a friend who's calls me and goes, you want to do this, and you I'll do that, but I'm not down in LA auditioning for film and TV right now. And theater. Unless it was something really interesting that I wanted to do, it's just not going to pay me what I was not going to pay me enough for me to want to do it. So the same time I said, you know, I really love the idea of monetizing in some ways. It's also been I don't know if it's been a detriment, but I do kind of live in it myself. At some point. I just said, Yeah, I want to I want to be paid. I want to be paid well to do this stuff. And so I don't as often go off on a hey, let me do this play for three months and make no make zero money. That that it couldn't happen. But it would have to be an unbelievable vehicle that I thought would be really positive for me,

Jeff Dwoskin 18:57

is Seinfeld what you're most recognized for? Do you have a lot of prophecy fans out there? Yeah, there

Steve Hytner 19:02

are a lot of prophecy fans out there. There's a lot of you know, look, a lot of friends fans out there. And I did one episode of Friends. But it's hard. Seinfeld is like an 800 pound gorilla. As I like to say, it's just on its on right now. So that has been, I would say the most but you know, I also have demographics. You know, I did a whole bunch of Disney shows. You know that. Good luck, Charlie. Zack and Cody. That's So Raven. Yeah, that's so Ray. Well, Wizards of Waverly I did all those. So when somebody comes up to me, I can almost tell by their demographic of you know, where they're heading on how they know me or are those a lot of times I'll get fooled because it'll be somebody younger. So I think it's gonna be one of the Disney shows, but it's like them getting a photo for their father, who was a Seinfeld fanatic. So but you know, whatever it is, it's all cool. But yeah, I would obviously say Seinfeld is number one, but I'm often surprised. I mean, I did X Files people. will come up to me about X Files all the time because you know that, you know science fiction stuff that genre has rabid fans.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:05

Yeah. Cuz like my my wife loves you from Seinfeld, who is more obsessed with the friends role. Obsessed with friends as we speak. He's putting together 1000 piece friends puzzle. She really? Yeah, we rewatched the episode where you're Jennifer Aniston's boss, and Joey buys. Oh, do we really have the whole whole episode?

Steve Hytner 20:29

I don't know if I've ever relived it, but that's good that she did.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:33

Were they cool when you were there?

Steve Hytner 20:35

Yeah. I mean, by the time I was there, I was in one of the last seasons. I literally don't know which season but I know, it was one of the last seasons it could have been the last season. I don't know. So they were kind of like a finely oiled machine. So that you know, they were they were pleasant and stuff. But you know, they were, they were in and out doing their stuff in busy had five different things going. But again, I don't want to give the impression they weren't. They were very nice. But like I said, very busy and eight seasons in or whatever it

Jeff Dwoskin 21:03

was. I know we were talking about Seinfeld, we are hanging out in the greenroom. The amazing thing about popularity of your character. When you think about how many episodes of Seinfeld there were You were only in six episodes across all what, nine seasons. So

Steve Hytner 21:20

it's crazy. It's crazy. And you know, that's not just true for banya or myself, buddy. Patrick was in nine episodes. Right? So like when he was like he was in 37 episodes,

Jeff Dwoskin 21:33

at least 30 Say not 150. Yeah,

Steve Hytner 21:36

exactly. Exactly. And the only reason I came across that and it said how many episodes people had been in. And I've had people say that to me so often. And I agree with it. That wow, I really only did six episodes. So that's when I decided when I saw the list. He said, Well, let me see. Let me let me see about other people. And that's when I looked at Patrick and potty. I was like nine that's that's the same kind of feeling right? You would think he was an 100. I

Jeff Dwoskin 22:02

think it goes to the writing of that show and how they created this world because if we're going just by IMDb you got Wayne Newman Wayne Knight was only in 44 episodes. This is the that seems out of out of how many 172 A weren't there.

Steve Hytner 22:16

That's how many episodes that were 172.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:18

Somebody Jerry was in. Okay, George and Michael Richards. Yeah. Okay. Um, how we remember Julia Louis Dreyfus. She was only in 170 of them.

Steve Hytner 22:28

Well, wasn't George wasn't there an episode George wasn't in and Jason got really upset about it.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:32

Well, they it looks like they gave him credit. It's funny because like, Jerry's parents, I think you feel like okay, they weren't in you know, they were in minimal because they came in went right their characters, but it's interesting. Well,

Steve Hytner 22:45

then also for myself, it was more than six episodes, because Jerry used to like to stick banya into episodes, and then at the end, and then when we did tape night, when they went into editing, they ended up they couldn't keep what I had done, because they had long shows anyway, so they had a challenge of editing it down every week. And so when when Jerry which at least three or four times, I get a call midweek and go, Hey, Jerry just stuck into the episode, like awesome. And I'd go down, shoot my stuff. And it really wasn't based on whether it worked or not or was funny. It usually was good. It's just a matter of the there was no room for it. But Jerry just had an idea. Oh, they'll be fine. Like the perfect example is the soup Nazi were midweek Jerry was like, oh, call Steve will have banya cut in line. And then that one that one stayed it was like it just made perfect sense. You know, if they're online, well, what are they going to do when they're online? Well, it's at banya annoy them. So I probably shot nine or 10. And then you know, the other ones didn't, didn't make the cut. And Jerry would call me at my house, the house phone, which people used to have and say, Hey, I'm sorry, we just couldn't fit it in. And like Jerry, just keep thinking, I mean, buddy, just keep thinking. I mean, throw me in there. Seinfeld.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:57

What was the audition process to land this role? I had

Steve Hytner 24:01

to audition for other roles on Seinfeld that I did not get so and then Seinfeld fanatics are always what parts what parts, and I don't remember them all I do remember one was when Kramer had the scent of the beach, and there was the guy, the guy who owned this perfume company or whatever. And I remember I had auditioned for that and not gotten it something else and not gotten it. And so obviously I was working a lot at that time. So they were interested in in me, and then all of a sudden comes this audition and all it said is the most annoying person in the world. It's always thoughtful when people think of you at a time like that. So I didn't know what I wanted to do with it. And I was like, am I gonna audition for the number one show in the world and not get it again. And then in the waiting room, the walls are thin. You can hear people auditioning, and they were all doing this really because it just said annoying. So they were doing this mean thing of hey, hey, you owe me. You owe me. Yeah, I gave you that suit you owe me and I was listening to that going. How long can that be funny for just anger. Anger can be funny for like a couple of days. that can split doesn't usually last. So I just decided what if he's annoying because he adores Jerry, and he's a lap dog. And now you would go well, yeah, that was the character. But it really wasn't the character. The really amazing moment was one one I went in. And they had been seeing all these guys yelling and being angry. And when I went in, and I just did that whole Hey, Jerry, and this very upbeat, thrilled guy. Well, Jerry and Larry just, I mean, literally lost, it fell off the couch in one second. And I was like, Okay, I think this one's going better. And so I booked it. So then when you do the table, read, the first thing you do is a table read in front of all the network in front of everybody. And of course, in front of the writers. So the writers, that's the first time they saw what I was doing with it. So then good writers are gonna go, Oh, great. So then they built on that, and they built banya that way, because the actor who booked it and brought it in that way. So like, the really good work comes from actors and writers working together, not constantly working against each other, which sometimes it feels like, it's

Jeff Dwoskin 26:02

interesting that you inspired the writers though, right? That's part of this dynamic that you're describing. And you brought more to it. And it became more right, because I'm guessing this could have just been absolutely. In the hands of another actor, one episode that we don't ever talk about. Yeah,

Steve Hytner 26:19

absolutely could have. You know, the other thing is that, look, the character of banya is really large. That's a large acting character. Okay. And this is the number one show in the world at that time I came in on episode season six. So it's already number one, by far. And so now I'm doing all this stuff. And every time I'm rehearsing, everyone's fallen off their chairs, all for them, you know, we're in the diner scene, they're in the booth, and I'm doing my thing. And they're, we can't even get through rehearsal. They're laughing so hard. And then the day before the studio taping, the four of them are sitting there in the diner, and we're just in between rehearsing and stuff. And I go, you know, I'm getting really nervous about tomorrow. And they're like, What, and I go, I mean, this character is enormous. If I do this character, and it doesn't work. I'm the number one show in the world. I'm done. If I do this huge over leap reaching thing, and the audience doesn't respond, I'm done. And for them to their credit, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, trust it, trust it. And just please trust it, don't take it down. Just do what you're doing. So I trusted them. And I swear that character, when I walked into the diner for my first scene, I just start talking. It's like the audience knew the character for 10 years already. Like they just clicked into him. And like, and I could, you know, Jerry just looked upstage at me where the audience couldn't see him. And just gave me that smile, like I told you, I told you. And so it was a huge character that worked. But I did get cold feet, like the day before the first taping,

Jeff Dwoskin 27:53

in watching Seinfeld, I remember any of the characters that they would bring in, they did such a good job making you feel like they knew you for so long.

Steve Hytner 28:03

That's a great point. Yeah. And that's done through acting and writing, you know, because they have to, they have to lay in what's called exposition, or what in the business they call pipe. So it's like information about the character or the situation that has to come out. So there's creative ways of doing exposition of having the characters say it, and there's less creative ways where they just say it. So the writers are always really good about building that backstory about a character. And then the for the for them, which is really great at exuding their disdain or their love for a character that, like you said, immediately gives the feeling that this person has been around.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:43

Yeah, they did that over and over again. Yeah, no doubt, Rick Overton and the Drake or any of any, any example. Yeah. And

Steve Hytner 28:50

they set that up? Well, that's how I felt when I brought banya into the diner. I couldn't believe how quickly the audience seemed to be completely up to speed on who banya was, and what was going on, on a character I wasn't even completely up to speed with yet, you know, I was still figuring it out. And then but that also happens, you know, everything now is single camera. No, there's very few studio audiences. But also, you know, the audience can help you shape a character as you continue to perform it in front of them, you know, they can kind of help guide you in certain ways that you may not even be aware, they're helping guide you towards, so the audience can be a part of that as well. And that's, that's what I noticed to the audience being a part of it was that they were so on top of the character and I was just trying to get them to even go along with me so I could eventually prove the character. Now they weren't in on Hello.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:45

I did not read this in the Guinness Book of World Records. And I'm just kind of making it up right now. But it would seem that your character is a single character, guest character reoccurring character as more catchphrases or rememberable lines. Can you even think of another character? Not that someone who would have been on 100 episodes? Let's say you were the six that you actually appeared on. I mean, there's that's cool. Jerry, there's no puke. That's a funny word. I mean, huge. The oval team job,

Steve Hytner 30:16

ships, not a meal.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:17

Oops, not a meal.

Steve Hytner 30:19

I mean, it's unbelievable.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:22

There's gotta be, there's gotta be like a record there.

Steve Hytner 30:28

You know, the only one that when we started, the first one was and you didn't even mention it. The best Jerry the best. That was the first one, right, which was kind of a catchphrase. And then, after an episode or two, we used it so much. Everybody was like, Alright, let's take that cadence out of the best Jerry the best to double it up. Because we felt like we had, we had to hit that enough. And then my biggest, probably biggest catchphrase was in the last episode, I say, last episode, I'm not counting the finale, which was let's go Jerry gold. But at that point, we had let go of the tag, the best Jerry the best. So it just said, That's gold. And then this is now years later, where I said, Well, let's bring this lamp now. Let's bring back the tag. That's gold, Jerry gold. And everybody was like, oh, yeah, yeah, that'd be great. That'd be great. But that happened after three and a half years of not using it anymore. And then going, yeah, maybe it'll be good. Maybe it'll be good again, right here. Because just the idea of saying gold twice is for some reason, all areas. It's what it was.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:33

So what makes it iconic, I think. Yeah, I

Steve Hytner 31:35

think so too. And that came from the very first catch thing I had of the best Jerry the best. And then we let it go for a while. But yeah, I mean, that is a insane amount of catchphrases. I don't know if there's anything to be said. Like for the actor who did the meaning I Yeah, yeah, that's me. I'm great at them catchphrase. But yeah, it just sort of happen. It's their great writing. And the fact that you hear it a lot it shows on right, but shows off a lot. But it is it is a lot of catchphrases or eyes. I always kid around. I have signed more jars of Ovaltine than anybody who ever lived and I had that record at one who else besides me I was ever signed a jar of Ovaltine. It's

Jeff Dwoskin 32:16

amazing. I remember at the show someone was like, Ah, I had a jar boba tea, and I meant to bring it. And then one of my favorite though exchanges is when you're like that swordfish Jerry. It's the best it's bassinet Geragos of the salmon.

Steve Hytner 32:30

I love the sound. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:33

Yeah,

Steve Hytner 32:34

I happen to think that Jerry is brilliant in that scene, you know, because there's all this talk about, you know, he's not a good actor. I like to think I'm a decent actor. And I know when I'm working with somebody who's got it, right. And he's unbelievable in that scene, just the way I say, yeah, no, I'll say I'll save the meal for another time. And before he speaks, he just cocked his head. He cocked his head like he's digesting what just happened. And I'm like, That is a perfect little moment. And you can't, can't like let those moments go by and go, Wow, he can't act. He's just being him. No, he's, especially for me. And that scene. A really good actor.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:10

I agree. Sorry to interrupt, I have to take a quick break. I do want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my conversation with Steve Hytner. And I will say like in terms of the catchphrase thing, you have to take a lot of credit for it. Because a lot of times the catchphrases are how something's set. Right? If I do, oh, hey, I'll be back.

Steve Hytner 33:41

Well, you know, yeah, he tells the story about how that line was, I will be back. Have you heard and talked about Schwarzenegger talking about that. And the line was, I will be back. Schwarzenegger didn't want to sit and he didn't want to say I'll be back. He said, No, it's more mechanical. If I say I won't be back. And then what's his name? What's his name of director James Cameron? Yeah, thank you. James. Cameron said, yeah, hey, you know what, I'm the director. Why don't I direct and you just say the lines I tell you to say. And then that became, you know, arguably one of the biggest catchphrases in history. Right?

Jeff Dwoskin 34:11

Right. But when people say is, I'll be back. Yeah, because,

Steve Hytner 34:15

and look, there's no doubt that Vanja has a certain sound,

Jeff Dwoskin 34:19

and nobody would really be somewhere and go. Oh, yeah, that's gold. They go. That's gold. Jared gold. Yeah. imitate you. Yeah. So that's part of it. Yeah, it

Steve Hytner 34:28

is part of it. That is part of it. All right. I take the compliment. They're, they're done. Hey, you guys. Dang it.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:35

What was it like coming back for the Seinfeld reunion on? Curb Your Enthusiasm? Oh,

Steve Hytner 34:40

that was interesting. I don't know there was a lot going on then. There was a lot going on. Then Michael had, you know just gotten himself in trouble with all that stuff at the Laugh Factory. And Jerry, and we would do in those reading and things and then we're going to try and lay in some things on that on those episodes that would help Michael it gets Michael got very negatively affected by it. You know, Michael's the sweetest guy in the world. He works outside the box, he was being outside outside the box. That's how he is he has to take responsibility for what he said, I'm not taking any of that away. But it was at a perfect time, meaning the worst perfect time where all of a sudden flip phones had video cameras in them. And he was at a club and being crazy. And it all got recorded. And it affected Michael so much that he left the country for a while. And when I think back to the the reunion show, the Seinfeld reunion stuff on curb, I think very much about that time and that energy and stuff. But for me, it was fun to head back in there. I mean, I mean doing scenes with Super Dave Osborne just standing there going, I can't believe this is happening. But I've been fortunate in my career. I've had amazing moments mean, I have scenes with Clint Eastwood that were amazing. And but I was standing next to Super Dave Osborne and I was nervous. I was like, I love this guy.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:05

Bob Einstein is one of the funniest human beings, of course,

Steve Hytner 36:09

yeah. And I always call him Super Dave Osborne, because that's how he came into my life. I mean, I'm not saying that's all he's ever done. But for me when I was a young girl sitting home watching TV, and I saw that stuff, I was like, I don't know who this guy is. But he is unbelievable. 100%

Jeff Dwoskin 36:23

Same Super Dave Osborne. Bizarre, right. And then he had his own show and that Yeah, yeah, just amazing. So

Steve Hytner 36:29

for me that that was, that was incredible. And then there was a lot of B roll on that. Shoot, meaning like, we were shooting the Seinfeld's reunion inside the curb show. And then there was tons of like Entertainment Tonight and stuff, shooting B roll shooting us shooting that inside that. So there was a lot of weird levels of shooting happening during happening during that which was interesting.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:53

Yeah, I remember loving that. I like this thought it was it was a cool way to do it without Yeah, yeah.

Steve Hytner 36:59

Because I mean, I I've been wrong about so many things in my life, but I don't believe he'd ever do another site. You know, do a reunion a real reunion in any way. I could be wrong, you know, but I would probably bet the ranch he would not

Jeff Dwoskin 37:12

we should have a Kenny spin off. And that's and then he can like come in and out. They can come out of it. That would be me. That'd be gold. You handle the Seinfeld thing? Well, when it comes to the fans, I mean, I saw that firsthand. And when I went away that is some people don't like to be like, Oh, I did that. So long ago. Stop by me now. You know, like it was like you embrace it. And you do your credit, like 40 minutes of killer material on stage. You don't even bring it up to like 40 minutes.

Steve Hytner 37:44

Yeah, that's that's what I try and do to make sure. Because I know there's a level of some people in the room are like, alright, well, he's he was banya. He's an actor. But I doesn't know. I don't know if that means he's gonna be funny as a comedian. And I know that to some degree, for people who haven't seen me before, there must be that feeling in the room. So I like to get up there and kick ass for like you said 3040 minutes before I even bring it up. But you know, some shows as I don't know, that weekend, if not, some people have what I call Seinfeld, Tourette's, where like, as soon as I get on the stage, they're just, they're screaming, you know, they're just like, soaps out there, just you know, they cannot be stopped. So then if they do that, then I have to deal with it right up front. And that's fine. But for the most part, I like to just go through a whole chunk before I bring it up. And then also, it's a double edged sword with the your compliment of you deal with it well, and you embrace it. It's a fine line, because I also get, because I try and deal with it kindly. And nicely, then some people will then put on me. Oh, he loves it. Well, he loves Oh, absolutely. Look at him. He loves it. So I have to be a complete a whole I have to completely say No, I don't want to be seen as is unknown as this at all. And I have to be mean to everybody to show that I'm not just still completely digging it. So but to me, I just look at it the other way of look, if I go outside my door, somebody's gonna scream that's gold, Jerry gold. That's going to happen if every time I go out the door. So why would I turn that into a negative? Just seems like a stupid choice. Right? So Oh, great. Let me be let me be pissed off every day. What a great way to go.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:17

Right? You were blessed with something that a lot of people ever get. Right? So

Steve Hytner 39:22

I mean, you know, I know it. I know if somebody's an asshole or not. I'm sitting there with my family and I'm in the middle of a dinner and they're walking up and they don't have enough common sense to let me have, you know, have my dinner, then I know, you know, they're probably jerk. But if I'm standing in a public place, or I'm out I'm at a bar or if I'm just out, you know, yeah, that's part of the gig people come up to you. Yes, it happens. So, so horrible. So I try and be kind and not be a jerk about it. But then you'll get labeled of Oh, yeah. Oh, he just loves it.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:50

I will say on Wikipedia, it goes out of its way to say Dave Hytner and Christopher Walken are not in prophecy four and five Does

Steve Hytner 40:00

it say that yeah, you can let me tell you something I didn't know there was a prophecy four

Jeff Dwoskin 40:04

and five. You should talk to your agent because I know that oh no please three was plenty. Right right well that's your you and Christopher Can I call you and Christopher Watkins clean and Amy are the only two actors in all three and all three movie Yeah, yeah,

Steve Hytner 40:18

Christopher's a what a piece of work man I and I mean that in the best way possible i i loved every second of hanging out with him every second of acting with him. You'd never know what's going to happen. You just like you want to just stand there clapping your hands like crazy. Just going I can't believe this is happening. This is so much fun. You never know what he's gonna say to you. You never know what kind of mood he's going to be in. You never know what he's going to do on take two from what he did on take one it's it's just a popery.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:44

I can only imagine where that might be like that would be amazing. Yeah, it is. It was what you had one line in there. That was a good t shirt if you went to a prophecy mention

Steve Hytner 40:55

is it when the hermaphrodite thing No

Jeff Dwoskin 40:56

it's like slow down everybody's dead

Steve Hytner 41:04

Yeah, so But uh, you know, that we were talking about the things you get recognized for anything that's in that sci fi way, like the prophecy like X Files, you know, they have their fans and they are, you know, fanatical. And then for the catchphrases you know, people come up to me and obviously the number one is that's gold jewelry, gold, but sometimes people say ones that are so so specific and so remote. I'm like, Wow, this was standing somewhere. And it was also weird to see did it kind of quietly snuck up on me, Sky kind of sneaks up on me and he goes, Hey, Kramer, that Nancy boy cream got all over the ticket. Oh, very specific, sir. And you're creeping me out.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:45

You've done a lot of CSI.

Steve Hytner 41:46

You know what I would have done all the CSI guys, except I didn't do Miami. And Miami was the one where we were just waiting because they also thought we could have done an episode where I was his brother, or something like that, because looks wise with the reddish hair and stuff. So we were always waiting on CSI Miami for the right script where I was like a relative, but that script never really happened. So then I ended up not even doing CSI Miami, but I did do New York and what was the other one? Las Vegas, the CSI CSI, which was Las Vegas, right? Right.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:21

In your credits, like what would be your favorite thing like the length will show Jeff Foxworthy Boston Eagle. I'm just randomly Pushing Daisies you weren't pushing daisies.

Steve Hytner 42:30

I wasn't pushing daisies. Yeah, I, you know, for me, I really loved I did a series on NBC for two years in the late 90s. Called working with Fred Savage and Arden Marine. And we did two seasons and I played it was basically scrubs before scrubs, where we were working in a work environment. And then they would do dream sequences. And we did two seasons. And then scrubs came on and did that in a hospital environment. And then they had a great, great run with it. I'm not saying they took anything or anything like that. But it just so let people know what working was doing. It was that kind of dream sequence thing. And I love the character I played on that love the people I was working with. But that was just like a role that I was like, Man, I could have played that part for nine seasons and had a blast with it. And then other stuff is just like dream fulfillment, like doing a scene in the line of fire several scenes in the line of fire with Clint Eastwood. And like in the scene, you're, you're yelling at each other. And now and I'm just doing a scene with plenty of fluid where I'm just screaming, teeing off and at the next minute, he has seas off on me and I back up completely. And I'm completely timid. So you're doing like a real scene, like a real scene with Wayne Eastwood and those moments just like wow, I never thought it would quite get to this. And that's another different level of the best moment. Some of them are about the acting and some of them are just about pinch me. I did I did a movie called The marrying man, Alec Baldwin, myself, Paul riser, Fisher Stevens. And that was unbelievers a Neil Simon movie, and we booked hours of film where Alec met Kim Basinger. The weekend before we started, maybe a couple of weeks before we started filming, they sent us it was Hollywood pictures at the time. They sent us to Vegas, the four of us just to become friends. We all had suites in the brand new Mirage Hotel, and we went to see Sinatra. I mean, just some unbelievable stuff. So sometimes the outside stuff is as memorable as the work itself.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:31

That's awesome. Yeah, well, amazing career. You're hilarious.

Steve Hytner 44:36

Like I said, I'm getting away with it. I'm getting away with it.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:41

Man, thanks for hanging out with me. I appreciate it.

Steve Hytner 44:44

No, I look I enjoyed it. You know, I have this thing about podcast comedy podcasts. It doesn't seem to happen as much. And when they were first starting there was like this whole added no soap opera to the comedy world. There still is a little bit but it'd be like I do a pot. Castaneda. So who are some of your favorite comedians? And I knew they were only asking that because the next question was going to be who is some of your least favorite comedian like that crap. And I'm like, You know what? I'm applied. I don't do that. I don't want to play that. on many levels. One of them stand up stand up so hard that stand ups should just have stand ups back no matter what. You know, it's just an insanely hard thing to do. And it has to look insanely easy. So whenever a stand up, sir, attack and stand up side on target, oh,

Jeff Dwoskin 45:27

well, there goes my next question. Name three horrible things. I'm just gonna cross

Steve Hytner 45:36

my name your three least favorite.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:38

I'm with you on that. Oh, wait, you were in Detroit with for hyung? Did they film that here? Yes,

Steve Hytner 45:42

we we shot all of the interiors in LA, all of the exteriors in Detroit?

Jeff Dwoskin 45:48

And did you have to be hung to be in the wall?

Steve Hytner 45:52

As I say I unfortunately, I was not the title role. If you could imagine I played a comedic annoying person.

Acting truthfully, under imaginary circumstances? Where

Jeff Dwoskin 46:08

can people keep up with you? Are you in the Twitter or whatever they call it now.

Steve Hytner 46:12

I'm on the I'm on the Twitter, the X, whatever you want to call it. There's Stevehytner.com. As I said, I'm almost exclusively doing stand up. Now. I do a bunch of corporate stand up because I'm a whore. And you know, there's all different like, for me, there's like three different levels of it. There's clubs there, the theaters, there's corporate, and they all have their own individual challenges and their own individual paychecks. But yeah, I would say yes, Stevehytner.com Or look for me in your local listings. I'm really enjoying stand up right now. Another way to say it is acting is the most collaborative art form there is other actors hair, makeup, wardrobe director sets, everything you are collaborating with 100 people stand up is the least collaborative art form there is just writer director challenge your everything right. And, and the reviews come in immediately. And I just I'm kind of enjoying the least collaborative art form right now.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:12

Well, you keep enjoying that least collaborative art form. You do it so well, who's working with you that whole weekend? That

Steve Hytner 47:20

was a fun way. That was a fun weekend. We will definitely do it again.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:23

I would love that. And thank you so much for honoring me.

Steve Hytner 47:27

Now. It was great to get an envelope we'll get together and your wife can ask me 100 Friends questions on the one episode. I

Jeff Dwoskin 47:33

did. I will. Alright, Jeff, be well. All right. How amazing was Steve Hytner? I know my voice is a little off right now. So if you're catching that in the intro in this one right now, but I'm okay. So fun working with Steve when we did comedy together and Mark price and and being able to catch up with him and do the podcast? I can't believe it's over. It just flew by huge thanks again to us Steve Hytner, for hanging out with me. You're awesome. And a huge thank you to all of you for coming back week after week means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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