#112 The Real Anchorman Mort Crim Is Kind Of A Big Deal

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:15

All right, Paul, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody, to Episode 112 of live from Detroit, the Jeff Dwoskin show. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what is sure to be our most newsworthy episode ever. Why you say our guest today is Mort Crim. That's right, Mort Crim, Mort ruled the Detroit airwaves at WDIV as head anchor for 19 years. But it was his time in Philadelphia prior to being in Detroit, that he and his co anchor Jessica Savitch became the inspiration for the lead characters in Will Ferrell's Anchorman movie. That's right. Mort Crim was the inspiration for Ron Burgundy. I think you'll agree that kind of makes more grim a kind of a big deal. So buckle up as we get ready to talk to the real anchor man. We talked about more amazing career as a journalist. His friendship with Colonel Sanders, his time in Detroit, appearing on Comedy Central TV show Detroiters and of course more Graham's book anchored a journalist search for truth, which I believe if you order now you can get as a leather bound book perfect for your mahogany shelves. Alright, the last part might not be true, but the book is real, MortCrimSpeaks.com is where you can get a autographed copy of the book. But wait, listen to the interview first, because Mort Crim is kind enough to offer all my listeners a special discount code, so you can enjoy the book for a little less than average eyes on the website. A million great stories coming up from one of the greatest people in journalism. my conversation with the real Ron Burgundy more grim is coming up in just a few minutes.

If you're jumping into the podcast right now, there's about 100 Some other episodes for you to catch up on so I envy you and and all that you're about to enjoy as you work your way backwards. Last week's episode with Anson Williams was so great hearing his firsthand account of watching Robin Williams create more for more and how we helped bring national attention to the Heimlich maneuver and his Product Alert drops that he created to help save lives, so many amazing stories he shared with us. And I thank you all for the kind emails and notes and tweets that you send, letting me know that you enjoyed the interview. If you loved rocking around the clock with me and answering Williams and you're gonna love the upcoming Happy Days interviews I have. I'll roll them out throughout March. But keep your eyes out for a couple more great deep dives into one of my favorite shows growing up happy days. That's coming up all this month.

And now it's time for the social media tip! Alright, well. This is one of my favorite parts of the show where I share a little bit of my social media knowledge with the little 411 I picked up on the street. I've been in the social media game for a long, long time. And I believe that we share information we can all raise our social media game together. These are meant to be quick tips, nay insights, so that you can go and google it up if you want to learn more. But sometimes just knowing it exists is half the battle. So on Twitter, they've rolled out a new feature called downvote. Now a downvote only appears on a reply to a tweet, not a tweet itself. So people cannot go and downvote your original content, but they can give opinions on replies to your content. The idea is that if people find something offensive or irrelevant to the conversation you're creating, they can downvote it, then the Twitter algorithm can rearrange the replies in the order that they are most relevant. Meaning the ones that don't get the downvotes if you're on Reddit, you're familiar with downvotes you probably downloaded some of my stuff. I get a difference between Reddit and Twitter is on Reddit, it's public and on Twitter, the number of down votes you get is not public. As always, it's meant to help keep the integrity of Twitter alive and the conversations healthy. The only downside I see is obviously it could be used to harass or target somebody or a dissenting opinion that you don't agree with as always, a lot of these things that they put in our hands, it's up to us to be good citizens of the world and use it appropriately. So as downvote comes out, let me know what you think. Tweet at me at Jeff Dwoskin Show. Check it out. If you don't have it yet. You'll have it soon. It's rolling out I have it on some of my account. Not on all use it appropriately and let's help keep Twitter a safe place for everyone. And that's social media tip.

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You know what else you won't immediately regret tuning the rest of the world out and focusing on my conversation with the real Ron Burgundy Mort Crim cuz that's coming up right now. There was a time a time before cable when the local Anchorman reigned supreme when people believed everything they heard on TV and in Detroit. One Anchorman was more man than the rest. His name was Mort Crim in a voice that could make a Wolverine power. In other words Mort Crim was the man. ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show. Mort Crim

Mort Crim 6:34

Thank you, Jeff, that's gonna be a hard act to follow.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:38

I'm excited to talk to you Detroit legend. And I got tons of great stories. I wanted to kick off with a little Anchorman intro because as everyone should know, or will know, right now, you were the inspiration for Anchorman, there had to been a thrill i had to, but I did have one quick question for you before you found out had you watched the movie

Mort Crim 7:01

actually, I found out before the movie came out the first movie, but the fact that he had that Will Ferrell had based the character and the premise of the anchorman show on Jessica Savitch. And me when we were co anchoring Philadelphia did not get wide distribution. There were a few people who knew it he had mentioned that I think in an interview on on PBS, but it was only after Anchorman two was being promoted by Paramount that he did the interview with Rolling Stone in which he not only revealed my name and the role that I had in in the design of that movie, but he also the Rolling Stone had my picture in the article well that triggered an avalanche of requests from national media. Good Morning America, Fox and Friends all the all the national morning shows wanted to know how did it feel to be parodied in that movie? So yes, I knew before Anchorman one came out, but I don't think much of the country knew. But before Anchorman two came out. It was pretty well known everywhere.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:02

And I know you are a good sport about it. But as as you're watching the show, what was it like watching it with your family? Without knowing that this was this was based on you?

Mort Crim 8:13

First of all, I like good parodies. And even before Will Ferrell and Anchorman. In an earlier generation. In my generation, there was Ted Knight playing the anchorman role of Ted Baxter on The Mary Tyler Moore Show and it was a spoof, it was a parody it was all in good fun, and I had the good fortune when I was anchoring in Philadelphia of getting Ted knight on my real newscast to do an interview when he was playing the buffoon Anchorman Ted Baxter, I think we always have to be able to laugh at ourselves. And I met Will Ferrell at the premiere of Anchorman two he invited my wife and me to be as guests at the premiere in New York and at the after party, he thanked me for showing such a good humor. He said, You've been a good sport about the whole thing. I've seen a lot of your interviews on television and he said, I want to thank you for taking it in good humor. And I said will if you had billed that movie as a documentary, I'd really be pissed. But I said as as satire as a comedy as a spoof. I thought it was well done. And it was fun. And I certainly didn't take any offense at it. I mean, when I was growing up my role models the people I looked up to were Edward R. Murrow and, and later Walter Cronkite Eric Severide. Huntley Brinkley, I prided myself throughout my career of being a serious journalist. So I had enough self confidence and enough belief in how I approached my profession that I wasn't at all bothered by somebody parodying it, you know, lawyers, doctors, business people, all of us in whatever profession we're in really need to take kind of a light touch and not take ourselves too seriously.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:48

I agree. I agree. It was one of my favorite movies. I could watch that movie over and over again, after I'll send you an email, a picture that we did at work where we all dressed up as a characters and mate, we made the poster I was Ron Burgundy. It must have been just such a kick. I think it's an honor when anyone from Saturday live kind of grabs you and kind of molds that into a character. I think it's a it's a good thing.

Mort Crim 10:16

Have a little interesting story related to that before Anchorman two came out, but when all the publicity had had been out there about my my being a role model for for that I got a telephone call from one of the producers. He wasn't it was It wasn't Adam Mackey wasn't one of the top producers was somebody who worked for welfare worked in his office. And he said we're having a birthday party for will. And we're also at the same time celebrating the end of the shoot. And he said we think it would be neat, if you would sign autographed photograph to will and we'll presume to frame it and we'll present it to him at this after party after the shoot is over for his birthday. So I got one of my puttin color photographs, and I put two Will Ferrell you almost have it right, just a little more sincerity. And I signed it the real Anchorman more cream, and I dated it. And I later heard from from this guy that had asked for it. He said we'll just absolutely cracked up and he said he hung it in his office and he said it's going to be up there for from now on. So little aside.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:20

That's awesome. That's really cool. The other thing that I loved you and his Detroiters which for those people listening as was two seasons on Comedy Central with Tim Robinson and Sam Richardson, and it's all based in Detroit, there are two ad admin in Detroit doing low budget commercials and stuff. And more. It had a ongoing cameo in it and one full blown episode and season two, you were so funny in that show.

Mort Crim 11:46

It was a fun thing to do. And again, I think you you know, I've got a good sense of humor. It's sometimes kind of subtle, and my puns often drive my family crazy. I do like to laugh. And I do I do like comedies. And so it was it was an honor and a pleasure. And just downright fun to be a part of the series. I wish. I wish it were still on.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:09

I do too. That was that was a crime that they canceled that show. It was so fun. I always wonder what people outside of Detroit thought of it only in the sense that they like your commercial where you're doing Gardner white life. Yeah. And it was all parodies of these very famous, like Detroit local commercials and things.

Mort Crim 12:27

It did have a lot of inside stuff. But then if you look at Seinfeld, all of the inside New York stuff, but I think it's still translates, you know, I think the broader audience, it's interesting, I'm still getting, I'd hate to be living off of them. But I get tiny little residual checks from that series because it plays overseas, and it's being downloaded and it's on various platforms. So every once in a while, I'll get a little check in the mail. So obviously, it is still being seen still being viewed by audiences outside of Detroit and around the world.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:59

That's amazing. So that was super fun to watch. And you are great in it. Your whole everybody listening, there's a commercial. An episode second season or more just takes on ISIS and it's probably one of the funniest things I've ever done.

Mort Crim 13:13

By the way, if they're if they're looking to download that particular episode, it has the unique title. Mort

Jeff Dwoskin 13:23

you heard it here, folks. I so I so I want to work. I want to work up to you coming to Detroit 1978 as the anchor man in Detroit, but you started out you have a very religious family and you are a teenage evangelist and you toured and preached?

Mort Crim 13:41

Yeah. I think a lot of my friends, many of my friend most of my friends were were very shocked when they picked up my book in the in the opening chapter, I talked about being at a revival meeting and preaching and I was 16 years old. I grew up in a family of clergy. My father was a pastor of a church. His twin brother was an evangelist. I traveled with him when I was 15. And then went out on my own when I was 16. Playing the piano and the accordion and preaching that was not that unusual in those days is pretty unusual to be out there at 16. But there were a lot of young people who went into the ministry quite young, and particularly if they had the influences that I did in my family. My aunt was a medical missionary. I had two brothers in law who were ministers that my great grandfather founded the first Christian Church in West Frankfort, Illinois and on and on and on. So it was natural for me to play preacher when I was six, seven years old as it was for most kids to play cops and robbers. That was my background is my heritage. But as I matured and grew up, I begin to question certain things that I had been taught in this very conservative religious environment where the Bible was treated as literal history and as everything being literally true, including the The seven day creation of the world. And, you know, there wasn't a lot of tolerance for evolution, I began to question a lot of things that just didn't make sense to me as a logical, thoughtful person. And so I went through a real crisis of faith and eventually decided, in my early 20s, that I could not continue to pursue my studies and for the ministry, they just wasn't cut out for that journalism was in my mind where I could, I could pursue truth without any expectation that I had to have preconceived conclusions. And in the church, when you're, when you're a part of a religious organization, and at the forefront as a minister, you're expected to believe and to propagate and to promote certain things that are accepted as true. I couldn't do that I wanted to, I wanted to test my faith against science against reality against logic against a lot of things that just put too many questions in my mind. And so I left the pulpit, I left the study the ministry, and became a journalist. Now I didn't, I haven't given up faith. But I think and if you read the book, you know that that is a theme that is woven throughout the book, is my own personal, spiritual, philosophical struggle to know truth. The big questions, the cosmic questions is, you know, is there any purpose to life? Is there a god? Is there a creator? Is it all just meaningless colocation of atoms that happened to produce, you know, eventually human beings? Those were the questions that I wrestled with, and in the process of wrestling with them eventually came to my own personal understanding and my own personal faith that I think has brought me in many ways to the same place my parents were, but through a much different route, and with a much broader understanding and comprehension of what I think God is and what I think the purpose of life is.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:56

Yes, there well said. And, you know, it is interesting. That's one of the things I really loved about your book. And your I did not know that about you that background and in terms of being evangelists. But when I was reading your book, it's fascinating, as you said, how you weave it through. And when things come up and certain crises. There was a story in the book where you talk about early on where you had to do a read about cigarettes, and morally being against that. And like always testing yourself against your faith at many milestones throughout your career. So I think it was one of the things that made your book so fascinating, because it wasn't heavy on and then I met Reagan, and this is what we talked about. It was

Mort Crim 17:34

interesting, Jeff, that you said that because it took me about three years to write the intro book, I sent it to first my agent, Susanna, and Stein, very plain literary company, and she called me back in a couple of weeks. And she said more I've read your manuscript said, it's really good. I think it's very well written, but she said, you know, that I'm Jewish. And I said, Sure, I know you're Jewish. She said, Well, I never thought I would ever be saying this to anybody. But she said, I'm going to say it to you. Your book needs more Jesus. And I thought about that for a minute. And I said, Susanna, I know what you're telling me, You're telling me that my struggle with faith needs to be more dominant. The book she said, that is your story. She said, any any journalist can write a book about, you know, I covered this story. And I was done for the Apollo 11 launch. And I was with the president of Asia, and I had a lot of reporters can tell those stories. But she said your story, the way you began in life, starting out to be a preacher and and then moving into journalism in this crisis of faith. She said, that is your story. And that's what you've got to go back and tell. So I took another two years to completely rewrite the book. And instead of that just being an incidental pop up here and there in the book, it became the underlying subtext. And in a sense, the theme of the book. And so I'm very gratified that you would say what you did about it, because it was it was intentional.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:03

And let me put a fall book and on that I'm a Jew, and I thought there was plenty and just enough, just the right amount of Jesus. So

Mort Crim 19:12

thank you. Well, he was also

Jeff Dwoskin 19:15

you know, right. Right, right. Number The tribe also, yeah,

Mort Crim 19:19

he was a rabbi. In fact. Lest we forget,

Jeff Dwoskin 19:26

it's interesting with the whole faith thing, because one of the things that I pull from the book is that you know that how you believed in it, or at least early on, or you were taught as a church believe that Hollywood was the devil's workshop. Right and and a highway to hell, and you don't think that's true? No, I don't think I don't I don't disagree. I did. But it is interesting. Eventually, you became the role model for such a memorable Hollywood character. So interesting. Interesting. So you're before TV. We're in radio, right? You got your start really in radio and you got you got a great voice for radio and TV

Mort Crim 20:04

Well, back in the 1950s. And you're you're too young to remember this, but radio was still the dominant medium. And I was 12 years old before I saw my first television picture. I think I was 13. Maybe when we got our first TV set, there was a lot of belief among the professionals, the announcers in the, they weren't called disc jockeys. In those days, the radio hosts, and there was a lot of radio drama, and comedies, and you know, the Bob Hope show and Amos and Andy, and there was a real feeling among many of the professionals that television, he has got a place but it'll never replace radio, it'll never be the heavy hitter. And there were there were announcers in radio who refused to make the transition over to television, because they were skeptical. So that was the time that I came into the medium radio was still big, it was strong. And when I went to New York, I was morning NEWSCASTER on the ABC Radio Network, which had probably as many listeners around the country with our forever 1300 affiliates as the television maybe more than the television morning shows had at that time. Now, obviously, that has all changed in the last 40 or 50 years. But at the time, I started in radio and was in radio for 15 years before I moved into television, it was still a very, very dominant, big medium.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:24

So early on, when you're in radio, and you had a mentor, Paul Harvey hmm. And he helped you kind of when you when you talked about transitioning away from the ministry, part of that conversation you had with Paul Harvey moved you into journalism. And I think the quote in the book was broadcasting could use a voice of integrity.

Mort Crim 21:46

Yes, that was a poll. He was he was very wise in I was working. I was pastoring a small church while attending seminary, while in South Bend, Indiana, while at the same time taking speech and broadcast courses at Notre Dame on the side. So I was I was really walking that that line and not knowing which way I wanted to go which way I should go. There was that deeply built value system inside me that said, You've got to be a ministry, you got to follow your father, you've got to but then there was that tug, and that pull it said, No, I really want to be a broadcaster. I really want to be a journalist. So I was and we I worked for a radio station part time that carried Paul Harvey Show. And he originated in Chicago, I was living in South Bend, which is about a 90 mile drive. So I wrote a letter to Paul thinking you know this at that time, he was bigger than Rush Limbaugh Rush Limbaugh wasn't even on the scene. And but he was the biggest thing in radio, the biggest name and he literally had more listeners than Cronkite had viewers at that time. And I thought, my letters never going to see the light of day. So I'm Secretary of property look at and dropping the waste can But surprisingly, a few days after I set it, I got a letter back from Paul personal letter. And he said, come on up to Chicago, bring your wife drive up to Chicago sit in on the noon cast, and I'll take you to lunch. And we'll talk because I had told him I said I really need some career advice. I was I was very impressed by that. And we set it on the noon show and then his wife, Angel, who he identified as his executive producer, he said she's my number one counselor. So the two of them took my wife and me to lunch and spent the better part of an hour and a half counseling. And Paul said, I can't tell you what to do. And Paul was himself a rather religious person, the deep spiritual kind of person. And he said, I can't tell you what is the right decision for you. But he said, I can tell you that our profession needs good people of integrity, as you just quoted. After that he continued to when I went into the Air Force after that was Vietnam era. And so I had to do some military service someplace. I chose the Air Force. I ended up being a writer and producer of radio and television features for the Air Force. And I would send my material to Paul and he would critique it and send it back. And then when I got out of the Air Force, went to grad school at Northwestern in Evanston and ended up with a writing job and eventually on their job at WL s radio in Chicago. Well, Paul was broadcasting out of the same building, ABC owned WL s their network studios were one floor above or below us, I can't remember but there on the next floor, I would go in and talk to him occasionally. And he was just very helpful. And then of course, I ended up with with his network ABC Radio Network in New York. And whenever he would come to New York to make a speech or to have a board meeting or something he would do his show out of our studios at ABC Radio 1926 Broadway further deepen the friendship and then eventually, I got the call from ABC that they wanted me to be his permanent vacation substitute and eventual replacement. Well, nobody knew that he was going to broadcast until he died still on the air at the age of 92 But then I was in my 70. So that was, that wasn't gonna happen. But there is the rest of the story on that score is also in the book. And that's, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna reveal anything more about that. You've read it.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:13

I've read it. It's a great story. I love that. I tell you, I remember it was nice seeing Paul Harvey's name when it came up in your book, because it just triggered so many memories. I remember sitting with my dad or listening to Paul Harvey. And now you know, the rest of the story. It was so great. I I went and tried to see if I could listen to any of them again while I was prepping because I just when those memories triggered, and they started it as a podcast, but then they only did two episodes and stopped.

Mort Crim 25:41

No, I was gonna say you can get them on YouTube, but I don't know how many are out there.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:45

Alright, so definitely get the book and just real quick a MortCrimSpeaks.com we keep referencing more it's book you can it's called anchored a journalist search for truth. And you can go to Mortcrimspeaks.com To get an autographed copy. And then I imagine it's also on amazon.com. And wherever books are. So yeah,

Mort Crim 26:04

I will tell you something, Jeff, for the benefit of your audience through the holidays through Christmas, we offered the book at a $10 discount by inserting the code holiday, just H O li da y going to make that offer still to your listeners will extend it. And if they go to my website, Mortcrimspeaks.com. It's M O RT C R I M speaks.com. And put in that HOLIDAY when asked for a code put in HOLIDAY, you get the $10 off, and it will be a personally autographed book.

Jeff Dwoskin 26:38

Awesome. Thank you for that. Alright, so Alright, so you're in New York. And this is where you had the cigarette thing that I mentioned earlier? Did that happen a lot where you had to kind of things would come up or where you're like, Oh, this is you know, my faith. And no,

Mort Crim 26:55

because it's interesting waw I worked there for one year, they were the big independent station owned by Metro media. And they had William B. Williams. And I mean, it was, it was the kind of a radio station where it was not unusual to see Frank Sinatra walk down the halls or, you know, any of the big stars, Steven Ed, or me, it was not unusual because they were the powerhouse station in New York. So and they had produced a lot of network news, people had gone through there, and it ended up at the networks. So I was I was really lucky coming right out of graduate school to be hired as a newscaster and writer. But once I left there and went to the network, you were not expected to in fact, you were prohibited from doing any commercials whatsoever. So that never became an issue. After I left W ne W. We didn't actually read the commercials on W ne W. But we were required as newscasters to do the lead ends for the sponsor. And I believe the lead in was like, this is Mort Crim with the 11 o'clock news brought to you by Winston cigarettes. And then you did a line plugging the cigarette, you didn't do the actual commercial, but you had to do that leading in. And of course, it had been ingrained in me from the time I was a kid that smoking is wrong, drinking is wrong. playing pool is wrong. card playing is wrong. Dancing is wrong, going to movies is wrong. So I had shed a lot of that. But by this time, two people were beginning to recognize that cigarettes were pretty unhealthy. So the combination of that religious, instilling since I was growing up, plus the recognition that this was morally probably not a good thing to be promoting cigarettes and that it was a it was a dilemma for me. I faced other moral choices and dilemmas throughout my career as everybody does, but not that particular one

Jeff Dwoskin 28:43

again. Anyone have note? No,

Mort Crim 28:46

there's a lot of the intimate detail revealed in the book about my personal life and some of my personal struggles. People often do ask me if there was ever pressure from the people I worked for, to change a story or to fudge on something because of sponsorship pressures. And I have to say I was fortunate to work at it in a time and for a company I worked the last 22 years of my life for the Washington Post company in Detroit, and 20 of it on television on Channel Four. And I will say that we had exceptionally good cover from the people that owned and managed our station. There was absolutely a wall of separation between the advertising department and the news department. And nobody would dare cross that. I can remember one time when we were doing it. It was an expose a it was a pretty deep dive an investigation into a local business that had been pulling some shenanigans and they were a heavy spender. On our company. They bought big time advertising campaigns. And the owner of the company got wind that we were going to do this series of reports I think Mike Winland had been investigating it and he called Old, the management the station and said, if you run that story, I'm pulling all of my advertising, I'll never spend another dime with you. And management said too bad. And they stood by us and the story ran. That's integrity. And ultimately the guy had to come back around. And because he needed the advertising more than we needed him and he, he ended up back on the station down the line after he cooled off a little bit. I was fortunate in not having to make very many of those kinds of moral decisions because I had good backing from and good integrity with the people that I worked for and with.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:35

So during that timeframe, when you were in New York, you cover the launch of the Gemini five, and there was so many, there were so many big things going on at that time. Now first man in space, Neil Armstrong, Robert Kennedy and MLK being assassinated. Woodstock, The Beatles. Is there any one of those where you're like, when you were reporting it just it felt surreal, or you just when you look back, you're like, I can't believe I was right there in the middle of that history.

Mort Crim 31:00

You know, the 60s was an incredible decade. For news. Some of it exciting. I mean, there was Woodstock, of course, some of it tragic. We had the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, the attack of Martin Luther King, of course, the the attempted assassination of George Wallace, there were the campus riots, there was Kent State tragic National Guard shooting of those kids. There were the big city riots, I was in Newark and covered the Newark riot, I guess the things that that stand out most in my memory were of course, the Apollo that covering the manned space flight that was for those of us who were there, I guess it was akin to people watching the Wright Brothers make their first flight. Here in a mere 50 years, we'd gone from the shores of Kitty Hawk to putting a man on the moon that was just unbelievably exciting, and the emotion that all of us felt who were witness to that it's hardly describable. But I still get a lump in my throat when I think back and in my mind, I recreate what was going on and all of our thinking and imaginations at that time, that some of the more exciting things that I did were to cover presidential trips as Lyndon Johnson Seven Nation tour of Asia and the Pacific, he visited each of the countries that was allied with us in Vietnam. And that was along the Pacific Rim, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Malaysia. And we ended up in the Philippines for he had called the Vietnam summit conference with the leaders of all those countries that we visited, and then made a trip to Vietnam a one day trip with the President to camera on Bay, where he congratulated General William was more than that point. Nobody knew just how badly the war was going. And ultimately, we were going to be forced to get out. It was all exciting. I don't think I ever had a period in my life. That was for sheer excitement and drama that was more memorable than that decade of the 60s when I was covering the national news for ABC.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:02

In the in the book you call it was referred to as a secret trip to Vietnam with President Johnson. Does that just mean they didn't know they were coming that the President is that mean? They just didn't know the President was coming?

Mort Crim 33:11

Well, it was a matter of security. The White House wanted to keep it secret. The fact is that the New York Times had reported I think the day before we went that he was going to probably going to make this trip to Vietnam. But they didn't want to announce it to he'd already been there and gotten back because obvious threat of somebody trying to take the President's life while he was in Vietnam or in route to Vietnam. So it was they call it a secret visit. But it really by the time he got there, it wasn't much of a secret,

Jeff Dwoskin 33:40

having spent time with presidents throughout this entire time, to some degree where there's some issues with the President's the or the the White House and press. I mean, now it's like DEF CON five, or was right. But is it? Is it always been contentious, or on some level? Or is that kind of a newer phenomenon?

Mort Crim 34:02

Oh, there's always been tension between the press and the White House. And there should be the role of the press when we're doing our job, right. And I watched a 90 minute seminar on journalism in the in the New Age last night, that PBS had had this program. And the gentleman was a editor of a new online news organization. And he was asked about the relationship between the press or journalism and democracy. And he said, it's not a relationship. They're one in the same thing. You take away journalism, you can't have a democracy, because to have a democracy, you have to have people making decisions because it is the people who make the decisions in a democracy, theoretically, at least, and unless the people have information fact based information on which to make their decisions. How can you have a democracy Well, the role of the press has traditionally and historically been to be a watchdog. There's a reason why they call us the Fourth Estate, the legislative, the judicial, administrative, or executive, are the three divisions of government and we are the fourth estate of government because it's our job when we're doing it well, to be a watchdog on all the other three, as well as on business, as well as on labor, as well as on education and medical, our job is to is to be the eyes and the ears of the public to make sure that all of the people who have power over us, and power over the various institutions in society are kept honest and are upheld accountable. And that's that job is the same today not granted when when I was practicing journalism, and back in the Walter Cronkite era, when Walter was named the most trusted man in America. Think about that. How many journalists today would be named the most trusted person in America, male or female?

Jeff Dwoskin 36:00

Everyone would have different answers at this point. Yeah, majority of

Mort Crim 36:03

people in the days in the 60s 50s 60s 70s, even into the 80s, the majority of people trusted us to tell the truth. They didn't always like the truth they heard but the majority today 46% of the people trust the media. And that means more than half the people don't trust us. They don't think we're doing the job. They don't think we're honest. They don't think we're fair. They don't think we're objective. And that's, that is a huge challenge. Some of that has been self inflicted some of it we brought on ourselves by first seeing the line between news and entertainment. And that's particularly true of the cable channels. I tell people when I'm when I'm giving a speech, and they want to know well, where can we find information as well don't go to Fox News or MSNBC, you go there to get your prejudices massaged, you go there, if you're, if you're left leaning, you go to MSNBC, to have them tell you that you're absolutely right. And this is, this is the view of the world. And if you are leaning to the right, you go to Fox, and they will give you just the other message. But don't go there if you want. If you're looking for facts if you're looking for truth. And I watch both channels, because I like to know I lean I'm a center leftist, make no bones about that I would be considered a progressive, but I like to know what they're thinking and doing and saying on the other side of the aisle. And I recognize that both of those are going to reinforce the worldview that you hold, or they're going to make you mad if you hold the opposite worldview. But I think you have to go to you have to go to the news pages of some of our great newspaper, I do think NBC, CBS and ABC in their news programs, aside from the cable channels, but in their news programs are still trying to play it pretty straight. I watched Lester Holt just about every night on NBC. And I think he does a phenomenal job of giving the facts. Unfortunately, it's hard to do in 21 minutes, which is what you have in a 30 minute show after the commercials are taken out. We have to be our own editors these days, facts are out there. But we have to be number one willing to look for them. Find out who the reputable and credible sources are. And number two, you have to be willing to accept it. Even if the facts go against what you would like them to be. If we're gonna be a functioning democracy, we have to be willing to look at the world as it is not the way we wish it were.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:27

There was a I can't for the life of me. I can't remember the name of it right now. But there was an amazing documentary on I think it was Netflix about social media and the way the feeds do exactly what you just said. They feed you the information that reinforces what you think. And then Fox is that version for that news side and MSNBC as I would watch Rachel Maddow and stuff and be like my wife, and I be like, Yeah, but then I saw this article, and I'm like, Oh, my God, this whole thing is just a manipulation. It's just, I'm just being fed what I want to hear, and it makes it hard, you know, then you have, especially when you have the term fake news, and then you know, all that kind of stuff happens. And

Mort Crim 39:04

as long as you and I and your wife and my wife understand that when we watch Rachel Maddow, and we're being entertained and we're having our prejudices reinforced as long as we understand that it's fine. And I hope that people who are watching Fox understand that that's not a news channel. It's an entertainment channel that uses particularly people like Sean Hannity, they use at Tucker Carlson, they use news information, as script for entertainment. That's all it is. Facts just aren't really that important. As long as we understand that we can we can enjoy watching our favorite channel, but look elsewhere to find the facts about the world we live in and what's going on and have a clearer eye and a clearer head when it comes to making our decisions.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:48

Having ahead in the in the story in the book for a second, I think around the time of 1992 that stories start to become more sensational and there was a trend towards tabloid content. So do you think like where we are Today, which is, you know, 30 years later from that point in time, but it was just a slow evolution and disintegration that kind of got us where we are today. And

Mort Crim 40:12

I think when news begin to be a profit center, back in the 50s, and 60s, News was a was something that stations and networks did as a public service, they never thought of it, as you know, they're gonna make their money on entertainment. We'll make our money on cheers and Seinfeld and The Mary Tyler Moore Show and news we just do, because that's our obligation to the public. And then somewhere in the mid 60s, they begin to recognize that news, there was a lot of interest in news. And if they made it more interesting, they could get a lot of eyeballs tuned in. And with a lot of eyeballs that meant selling a lot of sponsorships. And suddenly it became a major profit center. And that's when when ratings then began to be as important in the newscasts world as they were in the entertainment world. And so the line became fuzzier and fuzzier. And that's part of what we're dealing with today. Not the whole issue, but it's it is a major issue.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:09

Got it. So back to the Mort Crim and now back to the Mort Crim story. So now, I want to mention Kentucky, because what I loved about this part was that you started a life time friendship with Colonel Sanders. Love that. I love that and I would my question for you is did he ever say more? In case anything happens to me? Here's the secret recipe. I trust you to keep it you got integrity. I trust you. I trust you.

Mort Crim 41:36

I don't I wish

Jeff Dwoskin 41:39

did he ever make you fried chicken when you were over at his house so many times he

Mort Crim 41:44

we know. Usually when we had dinner with the colonel, we would go to his restaurant across the street from where they lived, which is actually the cold at the colonel's lady and it was owned by his wife, Claudia, and the colonel would usually order steak.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:59

Chicken, but I will say that this is the most disappointing part of the interview to find out Colonel Sanders never made you fried chicken.

Mort Crim 42:07

While he did make breakfast he did make me breakfast. After I moved to Philadelphia. I'd been away from Louisville for maybe a couple of years. And it was coming up on the 100th anniversary of the Kentucky Derby and my co anchor Vince Leonard and I owned an airplane in partnership. And our sportscaster al Meltzer had been in the Air Force he had started out as a cadet was going to be a pilot and then world war two ended and that was the end of his flying career. But he still liked to fly. And he came in the office one day one afternoon and he said, Hey, Morgan, why don't you and Vince and I get in your airplane and fly down for the Kentucky Derby. It's a 100th anniversary and he said we could be there probably in two or three hours from Philadelphia. So Vince and I talked it over and I said problem. Owl. Is it at this league time. Louisville as you wouldn't be to get a room for 100 miles of the Kentucky Derby. He said, Well, don't you? Aren't you friends with Colonel Sanders? I said, Yeah, I am. But I said he can't. I don't think he the colonel. I called him. I said, Colonel, the three of us here my colleagues and I would like to fly down for the Kentucky Derby. But I said, Do you think there's any chance you could get us a hotel room? Your boys aren't staying in any hotel room, stay at my house. I was kind of blown away by that. I knew we were friends. But I said Colonel, we couldn't impose no imposition. So he said you you got to come stay. So we flew down the Bowman field the day before the Derby and he picked us up at the airport in his limousine and wearing his white suit and his little tie went to his house while we set his private box for the derby which was fun. And then the next morning before we left, he came around and woke us up about six o'clock and he said come on down boys. I got breakfast ready. He and his wife had separate kitchens because he was still very much the cook he had made wheat germ pancakes and biscuits with red eye gravy and sausage and and country ham and I mean he had a feast spread out and I have some pictures of the picture of the book I think of that breakfast and certainly one of the memorable events of my career as a journalist.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:15

I picture that male on Instagram had Instagram existed at that time but of age you an influencer beyond influencers more the missed opportunities. Hi that is awesome. That is awesome. I still don't don't think I can get over that. It didn't make you fried chicken but anyway, I'm gonna get over it. That's on me. That's on me. Alright, so then we move to Philadelphia and this is of note where Jessica Savitch comes into your life you're you're rockin is the anchor and they come to you one day I this is when I was reading the story. It's sort of played out very similar to how they introduced Veronica pointing stone in the movie where they come to you and you're like, it's anchor man, not anchor lady. And,

Mort Crim 44:57

well, a lot has been made about To the male chauvinism, I have to say, and I've, I've searched my mind pretty thoroughly to make sure that I remember correctly. But I really did not have any prejudice against Jessica. First of all, I was co anchoring the new news with Marcia rose just stack. And so the idea of working with a woman on the air was not the problem. I think there were two problems when management said we're bringing in this this young reporter from Houston to Quaker 530 News. Number one, she was very young, I think she was 26. At the time I was in my early 30s, I thought and I'd gone through graduate school, I'd been at the network for five years, I thought she's really not qualified to sit beside me. You know, it's just a, an overblown sense of my own importance. And value number one, number two, and this again, was an ego thing I thought, you know, we're doing very well in the ratings who needs a Quaker? So, you know, a lot was made in the in the movies about his chauvinism and the fact that he just didn't think a woman was worthy that that was not my case. I didn't think I needed a Quaker I wasn't anxious to share the disc. And I also thought she was too young and inexperienced. There you have it,

Jeff Dwoskin 46:12

they have it. I just felt, you know, just it's hard to not think about Anchorman when you're reading some of the bits of the story. You know, it's like, I get it. You know, we're here. We're a more it's all about diversity. I don't know if you remember what Ron Ron Burgundy defines diversity? Oh, yeah. I know old wooden shit. Alright. So I you get recruited to Chicago. And I've known Bill Curtis kind of sabotage your career in Chicago. But Bill Curtis later went to do the voiceover for Anchorman. So the the thing that I read in the beginning of the episode, the real version was read by Bill Curtis, who sabotage your career in Chicago. And

Mort Crim 46:54

I ran into him. Yeah. Well, that might be a little harsh. I don't think Bill's sabotage my career, I think

Jeff Dwoskin 47:03

they get you fired. It wasn't like I'm gonna renew but more, it's gotta go.

Mort Crim 47:06

Well, that's what I was told by the news director at that time that Bill had, and I kind of understand that. I mean, they they brought me in to replace bill and once his New York deal fell through, which it did at that time, and he had been at the station, I think, 13 years, I had been there less than a year. And I think he it was as though they had they had hired two quarterbacks to be first string quarterbacks, and obviously, somebody who's going to be on the bench, you know, a good part of the time. And I didn't want that. And Bill's certainly wasn't going to let it be him. So hang on, just I was brought in to eventually replace bill and the idea was that they would have me co anchor with him when his co anchor Walter Jacobsen was off, I would have to on to on the weekends, I would do some reporting. Basically, they would get the audience familiar with me. So that when Bill did go to New York, I could move right into his shoes. Well, his New York deal fell through the Bob Wessler, who was had been the manager of the VM in Chicago, became president of the network. And then he got fired. And when he got fired, Bill's deal evaporated. So I don't fully fault bill for being uncomfortable when he decided to renew his contract. And I was told point blank by the news director the day they fired me, he said, Because I said, you know, you've got plenty of work here for another anchor. He said, Yes. But Bill has made it clear to management that if he signs on to stay, you have to go. So I guess in that sense, you know, did he sabotage my career? I don't know. He had to look out for Bill.

Jeff Dwoskin 48:50

Well, I can thank Bill Curtis, because whatever happened that led you to Detroit now. 1919 78. And it's funny, the one thing I learned I mean, I've I've lived here my whole life. And it's like they changed the name of the station, a WD IV when you were coming there like deep in your book, it says D stands for Detroit, and then IV for Detroit for and I'm like, Oh, I know. I never got that. I know you mentioned earlier, one of your Jewish friend said you needed more Jesus. This Jewish friend says this book needed more Bail Bonds. I needed to hear more, more talking about Bill, bye.

Mort Crim 49:32

Well, Bill and I were never close friends. Obviously. We were working at the same hours. So we didn't socialize. Whenever we were together in social situations, which we infrequently were We were very civil to each other. I can remember one occasion where he and I were waiting to do interviews with vice president Dan Quayle. And we were out at someplace in the around Dearborn. I think it might have been in Dearborn and we had There are cameras set up for Channel Seven and Channel Four. And Bill and I are just sitting there and we had to wait about an hour. And that was probably the longest and most interesting conversation that we ever had during our 10 years in Detroit. Bill was an interesting guy. He was a character very different in his approach to news from me, and that was, that's what that was fine. That was what Washington Post intended. They didn't want to out Billy Billy, they wanted to offer the community a different news product and what build it, but there really wasn't a lot that I could have said about him. I did my introductory chapter to first coming to Detroit, as you know, opens up with Bill bonds. But that was, and I won't reveal too much about that. Because it's kind of an interesting story. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 50:49

No, I was just Oh, yeah, I was just joking around there. For those of you listening who aren't from Detroit and didn't live during that era, Bail Bonds was the head anchor at a competing station and Bill bonds was known just to just go on these rambles and likely under the you know, drunk and like it was just like, if somebody really explained bail bonds to you'd be like, No way. Oh, just an over the top character. He was in one of the planet apes movies, I think as Bill bonds.

Mort Crim 51:20

Well, I've had people say to me, you know, I can't understand how Will Ferrell got the idea for Anchorman movie from you when Bill bonds was around? So there you have it,

Jeff Dwoskin 51:31

because you're you Mort Crim have have have that level of integrity, which I still think Ron has Ron was in like this, you know, drunken crazy person who had got, you know, Bill bonds would have been likely one of the other people that would be jealous of the Ron Burgundy character or, or you in this scenario for drawing the characters. So anyway, I was just joking, but it was just it was fun to read about you mentioning Bill bots.

Mort Crim 51:58

It was an interesting competition. And I always respected and admired bill as a competitor. And I, I think he did me, we each did our own thing. And we each had our own loyal audience.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:11

I loved I skipped over this just because I was so excited to say Bill bonds his name, but I love the idea that you came to Detroit because it was an opportunity to help an old beat up city find its way back. And I know we definitely needed that back then here we are. Now that was 1978. Now or 2022. And you know, the city is like completely different. It's like I saw I worked on there for a while. And it's just a it's a great place. So great.

Mort Crim 52:37

It is and yeah, that that chapter in the book just kind of wrote itself because it really was just the progression that my wife and I had been flown out to Los Angeles to be interviewed by K NXT, I believe was the CBS station in LA. CBS was trying very hard to keep me within the CBS family, they offered me a job at WC BS in New York wouldn't have been chief anchor job, but it would they would have kept me within the family. And they would have had me doing some anchoring and reporting and my old station in Philadelphia, Ky, who offered me a job to come back there. But I remember Jim Snyder saying to me, he said, I know you're being courted by some more glamorous cities than Detroit, Detroit at that time, was still really just reeling from what had happened to it during the riots in the late 60s and the white flight to the suburbs and the erosion of the tax base. And I mean, there's the city was in and the punch that the auto industry had taken, the city was reeling. And he said, I know you've had some more glamorous offers or opportunities to go to places that would be a lot more inviting than Detroit. But he said, How old are you? And I, I believe at the time I was 42. And he said, well, then you got about half your career left. He said, there seems to be there are worse ways that you could spend the second half of your career than helping an old beat up city find its way back. Maybe it was the minister in the the evangelist that looked at the challenge and thought, yeah, you know, you're right. Maybe this city needs me more than I need to go someplace else. That challenge really resonated with me. I never regretted it, I found the the opportunity to come in and become a part of the community and, and help with charities and fundraisers and just to integrate myself fully into the life of Detroit, and it'll always be home. I mean, we retired to Florida, but Detroit, that's where I raised my kids. It's where I hid my career, most of it and it will always be home.

Jeff Dwoskin 54:46

But thanks for choosing Detroit. So you won Emmys by 1985 You are you beat your beat and Bill bonds. You've you've been indicted in tech and duct tape. Not yet. Given the data and three counts more it's on the run isn't that's why he's in Florida inducted into the broadcast pioneers of Philadelphia, Michigan and Illinois broadcast Hall of Fame. So quite an amazing career. I could see where Will Ferrell or anyone would want to use you as a role model to create the perfect Anchorman. So ever since you retired, he retired in 1997. I know you started a communications company How do you feel your days now?

Mort Crim 55:30

Well, talking to people like you, thank you promoting the book is still doing some writing. I'm probably going to be now that we're coming out with hopefully knock wood coming out of the COVID challenge. I hope in the next few months to be setting up a speaking and and book tour primarily in Florida at least initially, I'm doing a lot of creating videos. I have a full studio set up here and I'm producing videos for my family I call them family legacy videos. And I have tons of old eight millimeter movies, some that my dad took some 7080 years old VHS is that I've had over the years of the family. And I've digitalized all of this. And I have a I have two Macs but I have one behind me that I use for editing. And so I'm producing DVDs trying to get all this stuff in a more permanent form. But before all this video tape and film totally deteriorates. I have a lot of audio tape. I have me as a disc jockey broadcaster back when I was 18 years old on audio tape. So I'm Crim and slim Crim. I've got the slim grim doing country music DJ. So a lot of that stuff. I'm integrating the audio with old video. So it's not it's not lip sync or anything like that. But you get you get this for my kids, they will hear me as an 1819 year old and they will see me in video. And so I'm doing some of that stuff. I call it legacy videos for the kids. Occasionally I do some stuff. We had a neighbor who passed away and I did a video tribute of his life he had been Commodore the gross point Earth gross point. There's a Freudian slip of the Queen's harbor Yacht Club The year before I became Commodore and he was a very good friend. And so I got a lot of video and wrote a script and put in music and made a nice tribute. I do that kind of thing. Just because I enjoy it because it's fun, and I think it's helpful to people. Once in a while I do something commercial. Are you familiar with the name? Olivia Rodrigo. No, Olivia rodrygo was the Time Magazine Entertainer of the Year this year. She is a young I think now she's maybe 19 came out of the Disney children's world. But she is they tell me among the younger set the hottest thing going right now. And I got a call from her agent a few months back and said Olivia would like you to do the voiceover for the trailer for her first album, which is called Sour. And I said Olivia, who? I didn't say that to the agent. But after we hung up, so I checked around and among the the younger grandchildren in my family, they said Oh, Grandpa Olivia, she is the hottest thing going right now in the music world. So I got back to the agent and I said, How in the world that Olivia Rodrigo, call an old granddaddy who's retired in Florida and want me to do the voiceover. And she said, Well, Olivia heard you on white stripes, doing little acreage. She loved your voice, and she wants you to do her trailer. And I thought what a world so I did it. We struck a deal. And I I did the trailer for for this hot young singer who I was just absolutely blown away that she would have any idea who I was.

Jeff Dwoskin 58:49

Did you negotiate a better deal than you did with Jack White?

Mort Crim 58:53

No. But this was only a trailer this wasn't this wasn't gonna become a platinum record. Yeah, that's an interesting story in the book too, isn't it

Jeff Dwoskin 59:02

so many great stories. So the book again is anchored a journalist search for truth and you can get it at mortcrimspeaks.com. What was that special code again, more?

Mort Crim 59:13

Okay, if you input the code holiday, you will immediately get $10 off the price. I hope a lot of people you know it. The book really has two audiences. It has of course the audience that is interested in news and Ron Burgundy and the whole behind the scenes thing about covering the news. It's got some interesting stories, but there's also for the people who are thinking about life's big questions the the the people who are still struggling with their philosophy or their theology or are trying to make sense of life in a confusing world. That's been my struggle. That's been my story. And if you enjoy writing along and maybe benefiting a little bit, or at least just being intrigued by how somebody else has made that journey and then the path they've followed. I think this is a good book.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:03

It's a great book. I loved every second of it. And I loved every second of talking with you. Thank you so much. I can't thank you enough. Thank

Mort Crim 1:00:10

you, Jeff. It's been a pleasure and the time has really flown is it really been an hour?

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:15

I know crazy, right. Thank you so much more.

Mort Crim 1:00:18

My pleasure.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:19

All right. How awesome was Mort Crim. Don't act like you're not impressed. Definitely check out Mort Crim's book at MortCrimspeaks.com. Use the code holiday to get $10 off your autographed copy of the book, tons of great stories and it goes a lot deeper than the conversation we had. So definitely check it out. You'll love it. I enjoyed reading it very much.

All right, well would the interview over that can only mean one thing that's right as diver another trending hashtags in the family of hashtags add hashtag around. Download the free always free doesn't cost a penny app from the Google Play Store or iTunes App Store get notified every time a hashtag goes live. tweet along with us and one day one of your tweets may show up on a future episode of alive from Detroit, the Jeff Dwoskin show fame and fortune awaits you. This week's hashtag is inspired by my obsession with Mort Crim's friendship with Colonel Sanders. Colonel Sanders is all about the Kentucky Fried Chicken and Friday find you a weekly Game On hashtag roundup was all about #ChickenFilms. That's right, the ultimate mash up of movies and chickens that's right mash those two things together and what do you got? You got the hilarity that becomes #ChickenFilms. The Ultimate Chicken pun game right here on hashtag ground up brought to you by Friday Find you know secrets of the recipe of these tweets just be hilarious. So let's check out some #ChickenFilms. I love cluck cubbies, Lord of the wings. Lay it again Sam as more of a chicken quote but I'll let it go because it's Tom Harrington Bach to the future. A Clockwork Orange. The hills have beaks he just saw amazing #ChickenFilms. The Ultimate Chicken film mashup hashtag coupe dreams. My best friend's wedding. No corners hands rolled man, the best little hen house in Texas. A joy cot club sweet comb Alabama, the Reese Witherspoon classic. And of course, have you good hands. The COO is barking bark. Poultry Geist, grumpy old Han and of course, our final #ChickenFilms has to be a KFC reference the bucket list Whoa. All right. You can find all those tweets retweeted at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter. At on over there, give me a follow. And like and retweet these tweets show some love to the tweeters play along and hopefully one day one of your tweets will be read on the show. How exciting would that be for you? Hi, you could tell your friends I mean, it's a big day, big day, it'd be like it'd be the star family dinner. Well, here we are. The hashtags done. The interviews done that can only mean one thing. Episode 112 is coming to a close. I like of course to thank again my special guest, Mort Crim. And of course I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

Announcer 1:03:45

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Jeff Dwoskin show with your host Jeff Dwoskin. Go repeat everything you heard and sound like a genius. Catch us online at the Jeff Dwoskin show.com or follow us on Twitter at Jeff Dwoskin show and we'll see you next time

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