#248 TV’s Michael Gray says Shazam!

CTS Announcer 0:01

If you're a pop culture junkie, who loves TV, film, music, comedy and other really important stuff, then you've come to the right place. Get ready and settle in for classic conversation, the best pop culture interviews in the world. That's right, we circled the globe so you don't have to. If you're ready to be the king of the water cooler, then you're ready for classic conversations with your host, Jeff Dwoskin.

Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Marsha, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 248 of classic conversations as always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be a classic retro 1970s Saturday morning TV retrospective for the ages. Michael Gray is here. That's right. Billy Batson from TV shows I am. Oh, for a second. I thought I was gonna turn into Shazam. I did. Alright, carry on. I'll go gray is here to talk to us all about that classic television show his iconic turn as Billy Batson and a whole lot more and that's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds. Just a quick reminder last week's interview with Gina Yasha. re an amazing comedian from the UK taking over the world. CO creator of Bob hearts abishola story after story after story. Do not miss my conversation with Gina. Also do not miss my conversation with TV's Michael Gray numerous cameos on Archer we talked to Michael about not only Shazam but his time on the Brian keys show the little people and of course his starring role as Jeffrey Marcia Brady's boyfriend on the Brady Bunch. We cover it all and that's coming up. All right now. All right, I'm excited to introduce you to my next yest you love demand the Brady Bunch The Brian keys show Archer the pages of Tiger Beat magazine and of course the star of the classic Shazam television series, Billy Batson himself TV's Michael Gray, our Hello. I'm here. You're here. Great to have you on. Thanks for hanging with me.

Michael Gray 2:26

And now what's really cool I'm in Shazam fear of the god's movie.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:29

I know i was gonna say So yeah, that's

Michael Gray 2:31

really cool.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:32

It's a great cameo. It's fun. What was it like being on the set of the shazam movie.

Michael Gray 2:38

It was like the old days. It was just a classic crew. All the executives were great. The rest of the cast members are great. It was like the old days back in the 70s was wonderful. I love doing it was great.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:50

And you got to call him Captain Marvel.

Michael Gray 2:52

I did. Yeah. You're the best Captain Marvel.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:57

So take me to the senior. You're there. You're standing on the side. Zachary, as Shazam is being attacked by a dragon written by Lucy Lou's character, what are you actually seeing while you're standing there?

Michael Gray 3:10

I saw him fighting the dragon, which is really cool. And what they didn't show was I was plotting and he was fighting the dragon. Thumbs up. I follow people around to because he was beating the dragon which was good. That's when I actually looked up. I saw the dragon coming down and attacking him and I said holy moly, which tic tac put it on social media and video of me saying Holy moly. But in the movie I heard me say was you're the best Captain Marvel. I told Zachary afterwards. I said you are the best Captain Marvel. He liked it. Zachary is a very nice guy. He really is. He's very humble is very cool. I like working with him was great.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:46

He seemed like a nice guy. He's a great Shazam.

Michael Gray 3:49

He did a good job. He is great.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:51

So how did they get in contact with you? Did they try to get you for the first one and they just worked out for the second one. The folks that made the movie obviously probably fans of the the old TV show. Did they hunt you down?

Michael Gray 4:03

Well, the fans want to maybe in first shazam movie, but I wasn't invited. This one I was and I actually I met Zachary at Denver pop culture con about four years ago. So I contacted ZACHARY And I said Zachary, I'd love to be Shazam. Here are the guys with you. Next thing I know my manager called Mr. Michael your exam period because they want you to fly to Georgia to cameo. It's amazing. I don't know if it just happened because the production companies wanted me to or Zachary said something to them to bring me in. So I told them I want to work with you. My fans want me to work with you. This is Shazam. It's my life.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:36

It's awesome when when the the new movies pay tribute and honor where it all began. So that's it was great seeing you in that movie.

Michael Gray 4:45

It was a great doing it too. Because after we finished shooting my scene was Zachary. We actually hug each other pat each other back hanging out with each other for a long time telling each other how great it was to be working together to win a superhero movie. Great. He's so humble. And I've been doing this for a long Have time since the late 60s and numi. legends like that most of them aren't humble. He was very, very humble and very cool. I was like Les Tremaine who played mentor, same thing he was legend was also very humble, which I liked that meeting superstars like that like Zachary, les Germain. They're just very humble kind to consider it, which is very cool.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:18

It's awesome. Did you get to hang out at all with Asher Angel, who was who was the new Billy Batson and in the movie,

Michael Gray 5:25

I met Asher Denver pop culture con, Zachary was there. Asher was there and Cooper Andrews. They're all there. So I got to hang out with them during the Comic Con. But when I did the movie, Asha wasn't there. He wasn't on the set that day. There's just Zachary.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:40

Well, obviously if Shazam was there, Billy Batson is not there. Right?

Michael Gray 5:46

I was dressed as Billy Batson right. My character's name is man on the street. Even though those dresses Billy Batson Yeah, this shirt on Yeah, the shirt on. When I did the movie. A lot of the executives on the set said, Michael, you spoke like Billy Batson, even at your age, just an older version. That was 47 years ago when I played Billy Batson

Jeff Dwoskin 6:06

is still looking good. Yeah. Speaking of which, I had so many questions about like, just those years and being like a, a Tiger Beat model. And what was it just like being Michael Gray at that point? Now just like being swarmed by everywhere you go. I mean, you're on all these major magazines. Yeah. teen idol. It's like, and you're on a TV show, and you're doing all that? It's a lot. It's a lot like what was it like being you at that time?

Michael Gray 6:33

Well, it was interesting. When I was back then I was doing auto shows now at Comic Cons. And people reacted the same way. Except at my apartment building. Sometimes I couldn't leave the building because it'd be a dozen people standing outside waiting to see me. For example, one day, I was invited to a concert at the forum. And when I was waiting to see the concert start, a lot of people come up to me started attacking me pulling my clothes yanking on my hair. So security guards picked me up, threw me into a broom closet. So it was Danny Azzaman and the family that's we went to see them at forum and a manager my manager who own Tiger bean fave, took me there with the rest of the staff. But I couldn't see the contract because I was in a broom closet the whole time the contract was and people were yanking on my hair pulling on my clothes. So it's a little different back then.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:19

It must be a weird feeling just to that that fandom felt that they kind of owned you about Yeah, I mean that you were like an object almost. Yeah. And that they could do that kind of stuff and not respect you as just Yeah, Michael Gray actor person.

Michael Gray 7:35

It was difficult going places back then to I went to supermarkets and things people would see me start coming up to me asking for autographs or again pulling out my hair they wanted to summon take home fish Michael Gray's hair or a piece of my clothes. So for the reason I ended up in Tiger bait. In 1970. I did a movie. I had a cameo in a movie playing Burt Reynolds brother Paul run Simon run. So I did the CAMEO. So many kids watching the show contacted Tiger Beat and said, Who's Michael great. We just saw I'm playing Burt Reynolds brother in this ABC movie that we call Ron Simon run. So Tiger Beat contacted my manager, my agent, excuse me contact my agent and said would you send Michael Gray and we want to do an interview with him. So I went over to target your officers. They did an interview with me on a photoshoot. And they started with any pictures of me so the kids are reading Tiger being fake back then. Like the pictures like the interview that kept contacting Tiger Beat so the pictures got bigger. The interviews got more next thing you know I ended up on the front cover. And I did Tiger Beat and other magazines too. Even Bravo magazine in Germany started running pictures of me and next thing you know I was invited to do little people TV series, but Warner Brothers and I was really on the cover of Tiger but and everything so it was all Burt Reynolds problem. That's why I invited to do Tiger bait because playing bridge brother was great talk about humble guy too. He was such a nice guy to work with just a cameo played his brother a very short little scene. That was the start of being a teenage idol back then

Jeff Dwoskin 8:59

you're shot and killed right? Isn't that like the whole? Yes, I

Michael Gray 9:02

was. Yeah, exactly. Right. You're right.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:04

I was shot and killed. Yes. Then he Avengers you.

Michael Gray 9:07

I have a picture of Burton I on my phone lying on the floor together. Yeah. It was pretty cool. Where was

Jeff Dwoskin 9:13

Burt Reynolds? In his career? That point? Well, he

Michael Gray 9:15

was already huge.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:17

He was he was already okay.

Michael Gray 9:18

I just Yeah. Okay, big time.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:19

So that was good. So that was awesome. Alright, so you get seen there's imagine like what the reaction would have been today with social media. Right. So this is everyone calling in? Who's this hunky guy Michael Gray. We need to see more of him. And this is all like letters and stuff probably and maybe phone calls if they could figure out where to call. That's extremely impressive. And you can see how the system worked without social media.

Michael Gray 9:42

And the cool thing about Burt Reynolds too. He was dating Dinah Shore at one point and dinette invited me to be on her show Weiss talk about my TV series Shazam. So the first time was on her show. I went into the greenroom to hang out for a little bit and Bert was sitting in the greenroom. That was after I did a little people I'm And after I did run Simon run to Bert jumped up started hugging me in the greenroom, which is really cool.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:05

He was happy to see you alive.

Michael Gray 10:07

He was happy to see me live. And the other cool thing about the first episode of Dinah Shore, the other guests was Jerry Lewis.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:14

How was meeting Jerry Lewis?

Michael Gray 10:16

It was amazing. I was a big fan of Jerry Lewis is when I found out he was gonna be on the show, too. I was thrilled got to work with Jerry for about an hour. I was amazed because I was a big fan of Jerry's when I was a kid, talking about a legend. Oh, wow, big time.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:29

That's incredible. Was it just an interview or was this when you were in Dinah Shore? Did you sing or was this I did.

Michael Gray 10:36

When I came out. I sang one of the one of the songs I recorded three or four records back in the late 60s, early 70s, early 70s, I recorded three or four records, so I got to sing one of them and Dinah Shore, I didn't want to show called The pop show, which was starring Davy Jones. So Davey and the producers invited me to come on the show also to sing one of my songs, which I did. I spent Davy and I became buddies. He was also a nice guy. And one day I was in my apartment building. I lived in West Hollywood in this big building called the Shoreham towers. So I was downstairs getting my mail one day, there was a lot of security down there. The building was huge, full of celebrities living in there, like Joseph Patton live in the building to a lot of other celebrities to Sunday, I was getting my mail all of a sudden, somebody jumped on my back, put their arms around me. I looked around, was that my shoulder was David Jones. He was hanging on my back. Oh, wow. I'm five foot six and Davey is shorter than me. So he was hanging on my back. It was really cool.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:28

Oh, that is so hilarious. So wait, so is pop the Davy Jones variety hour that overnight Joe from Twitter was asking about or is that a different show?

Michael Gray 11:38

This was called Pop.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:39

It was called Pop. Okay. Yeah. Well, and then I but so the singing they did. So this that was normal back then. Right? teen idol get you singing? I think I know from my research, right? When you hit when you moved into the shazam show that kind of they didn't go in that direction. But do these songs exist anywhere? Do you have copies of them? Where can I? Where can we get them?

Michael Gray 12:01

I just have my records are actually vinyl records. I have them somewhere there in my closet. We never really released them. We just recorded them. My manager had me taking singing lessons and voice lessons. And the producers of the record actually did all of Bobby Sherman's records, too. That's awesome. Yeah, I never we never got to release him. Because I was doing little people TV series, and a lot of teen idols back then. We were recording records did concerts. If you had a primetime TV series, which I did, then you did concerts, too. But then after I was, I wasn't on little people after the first season. So we didn't release the records after that. We didn't do concerts. But I did Shazam. Saturday morning TV. So again, I never did concerts,

Jeff Dwoskin 12:42

Michael. If those records are in your closet, you need to find them. We need to digitize them. We need to get them out to the world. I need to hear the songs. As I was just looking around, the Tiger Beat stuff back in the day, you could win when Michael Gray for a day, I saw that there was contests that you have you come to your town, it was an article, Michael Gray. Does he like girls with short hair?

Michael Gray 13:07

Yes. Yeah, that came up with some interesting, interesting interview. It's like girls are short hair. Yes, exactly. Otherwise said when I meet Michael for a day or have lunch with them or something. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:17

And when you mentioned earlier that people would grab you and grab your hair. By the way. I mean, you had amazing hair. So I can see why people might be drawn to grab your hair. I mean, it was incredible hair. It reminded me of like my high school hair, but no forehead. Yeah, it's like full head of hair. You know, the the magazine sort of seem to push that public agenda. Like, here's Michael Gray, he's yours. Sorry to interrupt, have to take a quick break. I want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my conversation with TVs Michael Gray, about to share another scary fan encounter with us. And we're back. Other than being shoved in, in that closet during the Azzaman on Sir, were there other times where you felt like I gotta get out of here. I know, like you're somewhere and it's like, just didn't feel safe.

Michael Gray 14:12

Yeah, it happened. I was in Las Vegas to one day, I was in a casino in Las Vegas way back in the early 70s. And some people saw me and started chasing me through the casino. So I ran through a door get away from the people because I wasn't sure what they're gonna do to me. And next thing I know, I ended up on a stage. I went to this door I didn't know what was behind the door. It was also the ASMs they were singing on the stage. And here I was again this time how to run across the stage right in the middle of their concert went out the back door.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:42

I'm no expert, Michael but I would say stay away from azmin concerts they don't seem to do. You don't seem to end well for you one way or another. Oh, so you got to meet Michael Jackson now and during a photo shoot for one of the magazines. That was I did

Michael Gray 14:58

yeah, I got to Michael here. was very, very young. I got from the Michael. We did cover of target magazine. He was very nice. I met him at tageblat office, they took pictures of us together.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:09

That's awesome. And then just fun stuff like comparing measurements with Bobby Sherman they, it's a whole different world these these. These are

Michael Gray 15:18

the guys me Bobby, I got to meet David Cassidy back then it was fun.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:22

I remember I had a similar conversation when I was talking with Angela Cartwright because she was talking about we were talking about the headlines that they would use for her. Yeah, it was. There needs to be a book just on all these crazy headlines and types of articles that they did. Someone needs to pull all these magazine articles together that would make a great coffee table book, I think. Yeah. Cool. All right. So you're Burt Reynolds, starting with Burt Reynolds. Did you know you always wanted to be an actor. You did plays early on right. At the Pasadena Playhouse,

Michael Gray 15:51

Pasadena Playhouse. Yeah, I grew up in Miami Beach. I was born in Chicago. We moved to Miami Beach. And I was like four years old. It was just too cold in Chicago. One day, I was probably about 13 or 14, maybe even younger. And I was playing volleyball. And my junior high school is backyard or sport guard. And somebody walked up to me and said, Would you be interested in being an actor? So a woman asked me that, and I had no idea who she was. Turns out later on, I find out she was an agent living in Miami Beach because they were shooting a couple of TV shows back then in Miami Beach. So I don't know I never thought about it. And then she asked other people who were there to do you know, his parents phone numbers, parents name, my friends told her my parents name and my parents phone number. They contacted my parents, this woman and somebody else would your son like to be an actor. So my mom and dad asked me if you'd like to be an actor. I said, I don't know. I never thought about next thing I knew. The agent came over to the house one day she got the address. And she said, Michael, I want you be an actor. You have a good look about you. You should be acting. So she told me to take community theater, Miami Beach, I did two plays that opened up the same day. And I liked it a lot. So I did it. And then she told me to take drama classes, my junior high school. And then when I got to high school check drama classes to to ask the drama teachers back then. And they said you should study acting two best schools in the country, or the Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York, or Pasadena Playhouse in California, so auditioned for both and I got accepted to both. So I decided I want to do more motion picture TV show them theater because one in New York American Academy is mostly for legitimate theater. So I picked Pasadena Playhouse. My parents flew me to Pasadena. I went there for three years. And the last year I was there. I did a play with Leon Eames and Loreen title was called Life with Father I played one of their sons with Ben Murphy. It was also on the other sons. So an agent sought and came up to me afterwards that Michael, I liked what you did in this play. Would you like to be an actor? Are you serious about it? Your past in playoffs? They were serious about becoming an actor. I said, Yes. She said, Okay, when I signed up for my agency, so I signed up with her. And every interview she got me on I was very lucky. I got every single audition I went off for I got the part. So that started my career at Pasadena Playhouse. One of my fellow actresses was Sally Struthers. That's awesome. So she became very successful too. And Keyonna young, also was one of my fellow actors at Pasadena Playhouse. He became very successful too, and CUNY and I still communicate. We did a couple of Comic Cons together. So it was like having a high school reunion with him. I saw him 52 years later, after we left Pasadena Playhouse. I did terrific on with him and Connecticut was great seeing him again. So it was a great college theater arts Pasadena Playhouse. I started my career for me.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:35

I love the you maintain the bond. Oh, I did want to mention, I know you kind of briefly mentioned it for a second. In addition to Tiger Beat, you mentioned Bravo magazine, you passed over the part where you were named TV Star of the Year in 1974. In 1975, that's a German magazine. You're huge in Germany, just like David Hasselhoff. Yes,

Michael Gray 18:55

exactly. Actually, a little people was being shown all over the world. So it was being shown in Germany too. So bravo magazine started writing articles about me. Then we had a contest or the readers vote on who your favorite actor is on TV. And they voted Michael Gray. So I went to Bravo Awards, the TV Star of the Year. There's one of them right there.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:16

That's nice. That's awesome. Yeah.

Michael Gray 19:19

So bravo award 1975. So when two of these, that's awesome. I was lucky to win two of those. So bravo started running stories about me a lot more and more. Your favorite actor in the industry is Michael Gray. And then Shazam was running over there too in Germany. So more people like that as well.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:37

You're International. You're an international star. Wait, so the little people that was like your first series for Shazam, that became the Brian Keith show. You were on the first season and then they we kind of tooled the show or that fair way to say it or you weren't in the second season because they just kind of changed everything or redid it or

Michael Gray 19:59

they did there was I have a political problem, which I don't really like talking about. But the first season Yes, actually IMDb said I did six episodes on the first season. Not true. I did 26 episodes, because back then, in the 70s, we had a TV series. We did 26 episodes every year. Then they reran a one time, which is 52 weeks, this entire year, but the 26 episodes and the second season, they wrote my character out, wasn't it any longer? And there was a political story about it, which I don't talk about it so they change the name of the show. The Brian Keith show the second season.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:33

Did you enjoy working with Brian Keith?

Michael Gray 20:35

I did like the first year. Yes. And Garry Marshall was also the rich he created a little people TV series and produced it Gary Marshall talk about a legend. He does so many movies and TV shows. And the second season Gary wasn't on the show either. It produced the second season either.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:49

So it was a complete kind of redo. It was filmed in Hawaii.

Michael Gray 20:53

Yeah, we shot in Hawaii in a wahoo. And my mom and dad actually was so proud of me because I was in my career, doing I love doing my mom and dad had trained me for my career when I was 14 and 15 years old. They booked me in a summer stock company that taught me the business. Then they helped me get to those two plays in Miami Beach I mentioned. Then they booked me passionate playlists, college theater arts. Worked for four years I graduated 1968 Pasadena Playhouse college theater, right and I'm working aged 72 and 72. I got cast a little people TV series. My mom and dad flew from Miami Beach to Hawaii to watch me shoot an episode. It was sitting on the set one day when I was shooting it. Their faces were glowing there were so proud of me that I had a regular role in a primetime TV series.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:34

That's a huge deal. That's something for parents to be very proud of.

Michael Gray 21:38

And it was great working on a why for a year, like working in tropical paradise. I loved it. It's fantastic. It's a great place to live for a year. I loved every minute of it.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:47

So when you found out you didn't have that job anymore, were you more upset about losing the job or having to loot or having to leave Hawaii?

Michael Gray 21:55

Yeah. When I flew back to Miami to I flew back to Los Angeles after the first season. And my manager said, Michael, I'm gonna have dinner with you and I don't want to talk to you. So I met my manager for dinner guy that on target beaten faith. After I started working and tagging me in favor and all those pictures and interviews. He said I want to manage it. I said, Okay, so we met for dinner. Then he said, Michael have some bad news for you. What's that? So you're not in little people anymore? I said, Okay. And a little while later, he told me, you just got invited to do Shazam. Would you like to do it? Saturday morning TV series, said of course I would. It was great.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:28

See one door shuts another one opens it was meant to be if you had stayed on the other show, then eventually it only lasted I think one more season anyway. Right? Yeah, you would have lost the you may not have had the this role that became so important in your life. So

Michael Gray 22:43

it's possible. Yeah, yeah. Possible. Possible. Right. I drove over to the production company that did Shazam. I drove over to their office one day, and I walked in the to audition to talk to them. And they said Michael, and Les Jermaine was sitting there. Oh, my gosh, les Tremaine, and they said, Michael, would you like to play Billy Bass? And then Shazam said, Of course I would. I didn't even audition. They said, Okay, you got the park. No problem. So the next week, we started shooting our first episode. It was great. Local investor domain. That's amazing. And then I got to work with Jackson Bostwick for the first year. And then Jackson didn't do this show. The second year. That's when I got to meet John Davey, who played Captain Marvel, second and third year of Shazam. Got to meet with John. So 1974 I worked with Jackson and Les 9075 and 1976. I work with John Davey MOS Jermaine. Les was great to work with he had a great sense of humor. He was so funny. And talk about humble legend. Les was working back in the 30s. Here's one of the top radio stars back in the 30s.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:43

Right. He was a radio and a movie star. Right? He was he has to tell me tell me more about less. And I want to hear about mentor was a mentor to outside of the show as well. And I think I've read you guys made you maintain the friendship after the show as well.

Michael Gray 23:57

He was great. He had one of the best sense of humors have anybody ever worked with he was so funny. He would say things and do things on the set, and we were shooting just cracked everybody up the entire crew and myself. He was so funny. There was one scene the first season I said Shazam. And the first season when I said Shazam, there'll be smoke after I said it must smoke declare Captain Marvel the standing behind it. So that day, I said Shazam. The smoke cleared less Jemaine was wearing Captain Marvel outfits when the smoke cleared less was standing there I said I am Captain Marvel stuff. The whole crew was back enough to That's hilarious. Okay, one day we were shooting an episode and we did we shot every summer so one day was about 115 degrees outside we were shooting shot in the summertime in a desert area. Plus the outside lights are lighting up inside the RV that lesson now we're in it. The lights also were heating up in the RV so hot. It was about 125 degrees inside the RV because of the sun and the lights lighting us both up. So all of a sudden the winch She'll cracked open from the heat. So less our sound man was lying on the floor between us with a microphone, recording us doing our scenes. So in the ruin shield brachte, again, less a sense of humor. I saw the windshield cracked and looked at me said What the f was at? I started laughing I said, Mr. Mentor, I don't know what the I thought that was. I'm not saying the word I said f. So obviously, you heard the director say cut as a kid show you guys can't do that. Again, that was less he was so funny.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:31

That is that is really really funny. Do you talk to Jackson and or John to this day? Or do you stay in touch with them? Or more John? An objection I had like, yeah, thing where I've

Michael Gray 25:45

been seeing Jackson in years. We did the Hollywood collect your show, about 30 years ago. That was before the Hollywood show. It's called the Hollywood collect a show in Burbank, California. And this last time I saw Jackson, he did a show as well. So I haven't seen him since. But John Davey and I become best friends. So John, I do a lot of Comic Cons together. I see John all the time. Actually, I talked to him yesterday, communicate on the phone a lot. John is a very, very dear friend of mine. But Jackson, I haven't seen or talked to in over 30 years.

Jeff Dwoskin 26:12

That probably happens too. Right? You know, you can't stay in touch with everyone.

Michael Gray 26:17

He was a good Captain Marvel. He really was. Yeah, again, John. And I just became very good friends. Two years of work together. And now we're still good friends.

Jeff Dwoskin 26:23

Does Jackson have any animosity or anything like, because depending on what you read, you know, there was a lawsuit and then they're, you know, he laughed, but they thought he was negotiating. And he says he was just heard. And so there's like, I don't know, was that even something you were aware of at the time, or just one day, John Davies there? Well,

Michael Gray 26:41

one day Jackson was doing a scene where he's supposed to jump and land. And when he landed, he got hurt. So the next day, he didn't show up because he supposedly was at a doctor's office, or there were different rumors why he didn't show up. But mostly he got because he got hurt. But the production companies, the producers about those other reasons, they let them go. So John Davey showed up on the set one day and Les Germain, I looked up and saw John walk on the set. We didn't know we didn't know that Jackson wasn't there any longer. That's when we met John Doe. That's when John and I became friends. So

Jeff Dwoskin 27:12

was there any reaction from like the kids watching and anything like that? Or did they just kind of accept that Captain Marvel looks a little different now, but everything's copacetic otherwise,

Michael Gray 27:23

a lot of people were surprised because I didn't tell anybody both knew Captain Marvel. A lot of people would just surprise what happened to Captain Marvel is a different person is interesting. Did

Jeff Dwoskin 27:32

you ever I know you said lasted but did you ever put on a Captain Marvel outfit?

Michael Gray 27:38

No, I'm too small. There's

Jeff Dwoskin 27:40

less was it Wednesday me?

Michael Gray 27:44

I wouldn't be able to fit in I could fit in one leg maybe.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:48

Maybe the cape anything.

Michael Gray 27:51

Again, the cape would be huge. Because I'm only five foot six and Jackson was tall John's tall unless it's tall. So I couldn't wear the I couldn't wear the Captain Marvel outfit guy still with a Billy Batson shirt when I do comic cons. Why did this stand for the guys movie? I wear the bully fashion shirt.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:09

Right and they wouldn't look as good in that shirt as you look at it. So I guess that's that's the trade off. That's we're all dealt the cards were dealt, right.

Michael Gray 28:16

Yeah, that's what people like see me at Comic Con is wearing the Billy Batson shirt. They still think it look like Billy Batson. They love seeing it.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:23

I love it. Well, speaking of Jackson Bostwick for a second in the archer show that the shows that you've done that's one of the funniest lines is when Archer says to you, I'd be happy if you could just turn into Jackson Bostwick, and then you slap him, your characters slaps him. That's right, and the other two characters turn to each other and go, you're gonna have to explain that to me later.

Michael Gray 28:47

I liked doing our show because a lot of fun. It really was. Interesting story, actually, to one day, my son was watching an episode of Archer, and Archie was sitting out by the pool with I think was his mother. And he had memory problems. So he said to her, who was the guy that played Billy Batson? And there she is, and this Shazam series, so she said, Michael, Greg is Oh, yeah, was Michael great. So my son called me So Michael, they just mentioned your name and archer, which I didn't know because I didn't watch the episode. So I contacted Adam Reed, who created Archer direct a lot of episodes of producers it. I contacted Adam, as the Adam, thank you for doing that for me for mentioning my name in the show. And he said you welcome to We became sort of buddies and I said, I'd like to do an episode Archer. He said I'd like to have you do an episode Archer to cast me for episodes. I love doing it. There's a lot of fun doing voiceover work. And great animators. They really were archers looks. The animators are so good. Almost looks like a live action show.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:42

Oh archers, one of the best and funniest shows on TV. It is yeah. Your guest spots on it are hilarious and archers. Just fascination and love for TVs Michael Gray is just the best and It says exactly, it's the best.

Michael Gray 30:02

So yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 30:03

was it Adam Reed from Archer that just love this show as a kid and just as these pop culture type people do when they're writing things just just wrote from things that he loved and just happen to work in Michael Gray Billy Batson Shazam. Yeah. Is that just how it happens? Is he just part of the fandom that he watched like watching Shazam when he was younger? Yeah. When he was a kid, he

Michael Gray 30:27

felt like watching Shazam.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:29

Because Shazam was, I don't know. How do you say ABC after school special there was that that vibe, you know, where you learned lessons or lessons every, every episode where you took away a moral, it was entertaining, and also work to help you be a better person. Right. So that probably resonated with a lot of people. The fans come and talk to you about that at the Comic Cons and

Michael Gray 30:52

a lot. That's one of the more very interesting things about doing comic cons. So many fans tell me until John Davey two is live. We do Comic Con sitting right next to each other a lot. And a lot of fans tell us they love watching the show because a great moral values. Every show had a great moral value, everyone. So a lot of them tell us stories that were heartbreaking. Back in the 70s. It said a lot of myths that I had horrible problems I was picked on. I was beaten up. My son said my parents abused me I was abused. I was beaten up in school. And one of my great relationships great escapes from my life was watching Shazam every Saturday morning because I great boy that is I loved it. So it makes me feel very good. Mr. Wood. Thank you very much for doing this for me. You kept some people said actually kept me alive. Yeah, some of them said I wanted to I wanted to die. I was so abused and picked on and I Shazam kept me alive, which makes you feel really interesting and very good. People tell you that story. It's an amazing story is heartwarming. So Phil they because Shazam did it. I love having a bowl of cereal watching Shazam. Every Saturday morning.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:56

That's amazing. That must make you feel so good to sit there and hear those stories. Sorry to interrupt, have to take a quick break. And we're back with Michael Gray about to share some cool stories about his time with Adam West and Burt Ward. Oh, I was digging around just trying to find some, you know, trivia and stuff and one of the elders uncredited was Adam West Batman. Yes. I love the it's always it was always funny because they were they would speak in riddles to you the elders when you would talk to the elders to get to kind of the mission for the episode. Yeah,

Michael Gray 32:31

actually got to meet Adam back in the 70s. I was doing auto shows before there were Comic Cons. I did auto shows every single weekend for a month after month after month, because Shazam is current. So many auto shows I got to do with Adam West and Burt Ward. They're both such night guys are really worth it was fun working with him.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:49

Oh, that's cool. I've met bird. I've had him on the show. He was a lot of fun to talk to Absolutely. Where the car shows when you did the car shows back then. Was it a way for you to make extra money like they are now like now you go you make money on an autograph. You make money on a photo? I mean, taking a picture together. Now you can do a video and charge people charge for videos, all that kind of stuff where the car shows kind of the same thing like or did they just pay you to be there and you engaged with the fans? Was it a different kind of vibe than the comic cons that I know of today,

Michael Gray 33:23

every car show they pay you to be in there. And then you have your picture sales to so many fans are so happy to meet you. It was great. Especially when I did one on Miami Beach, again with Burt Ward and Adam West, and John Travolta to he was there as well. And was very cool, because so many fans have showed up. There were family members that I went to high school with, or junior high school with or neighbors families. And they were also thrilled to meet me again to see me again all these years later, after I graduated from high school. So so much fun back then. And one day Adam and I were doing a car show in a city down in the southeast. And we went through security to get back on the plane. So the security guards opened up Adams bag. Not everybody wants to security. Sometimes you dev sometimes you didn't want to Adam's bag, and they pulled out a bag full of cash for picture sales. And they looked at him they said, they said why do you have a bag full of cash in here? Were you in the bank? Pretty much to the suitcase again, and we pull that his Batman mask. And I said there's a mask in here too. We were in a bank. And Adam said, No. I'm Batman, I guess. Oh, sure you are and I said he is Batman as Adam West, I guess. Oh, I'm sorry. So Adam, I started laughing all the way back to California. We laughed the whole way back. They thought maybe you robbed a bank. It was so funny.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:44

Oh my god. That's amazing. Yeah, it

Michael Gray 34:47

was very funny. It was very amazing.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:49

I did want to mention, I didn't want to not mention because I think it's probably one of your most important roles. Being a Jeff myself. You played Jeff Jeff on Brady Bunch Marsh's boyfriend Jeff Yes. Yep. So as as a Jeff seeing my name on the DEA is exactly as always important. Was it fun kind of guesting on on the Brady Bunch just being part of that. It was quite

Michael Gray 35:16

episode. I like doing Yeah. Yeah. I actually made contact my agent too. And they just said, I did an audition. They just said to Michael Gray, like to do an episode of The Brady Bunch from agents which liked an episode pavement. I said, Of course I would. I'd like to because I liked the Brady Bunch. There's a lot of fun. So I went in, I did the episode. It was a lot of fun. And then when I was in the ice cream store, she spread me the whipped cream. It was very funny

Jeff Dwoskin 35:40

how many takes did that take a couple

Michael Gray 35:42

cuz she sprayed one time, got me all over the place and got my date to which I shouldn't have been dating somebody else that was supposedly dating her. That's why she got mad at me a spade whipped cream. So we both got covered whipped cream that Maria McCormack was very nice. She was such a nice lady to work with. She really was. I love doing the episode was great.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:02

In your defense, you were trying to get her to Marcy to go out with you. And she kept being too busy for you. So you were just trying to make her jealous with the other girl. And that triggered her so

Michael Gray 36:14

exactly right. Yes, yes. Yep.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:19

It all ends up at the end. Yeah. I think you make up at the end over the phone. I think now that makes you my second person on the show who was one of Marshalls boyfriend Nicholas Hammond was on. He was a big man on campus that episode. Yeah. All right. Well, I'll chalk that up. did have a question for you on Shazam. Back to Shazam. Now. Oh, there was an episode of fool's gold. You're panning for gold in the river. But they went did they not let you put on shorts? They couldn't. And that was funny because like you're wearing your shoes and your pants and you're in like the little stream and for gold. That was funny.

Michael Gray 36:58

We had so many guest stars like dabs Grier on fool's gold, to work with a legend like dabs Greer was great. I got to meet him was great. He was so nice. And less new dad was too. Yeah, he

Jeff Dwoskin 37:09

was great in that you had a lot of cool. Jackie Earle Haley. Yeah. Danny Bonaduce. Yeah, I did an episode. Oh, and then Frank. Is a Colin or Coghlin. The original Billy Batson. Yeah. And then Joanne Cameron, ISIS. Did you get to hang out with ISIS? Yeah,

Michael Gray 37:29

she was very nice. Sorry. She's gone. She was very nice. I

Jeff Dwoskin 37:33

think she was like that. Was she the first like female superhero? I mean, what did that predate Wonder Woman? Yeah, yeah, she was. Yeah. Cool. Are there any other guest stars that I'm missing that were super cool to work with?

Michael Gray 37:47

Oh, there was so many of them. Tracking Grindr who was besides Danny Bonaduce and dabs career,

Jeff Dwoskin 37:52

how was work I was Danny Bonaduce, and he stories about Danny Bonaduce or Jackie Earle Haley.

Michael Gray 37:57

Danny was great. He was very nice. And he did Danny to hear that. Hey, radio show two later

Jeff Dwoskin 38:02

on. Right, right, right here in Detroit. He was a DJ in Detroit, where I'm from. Yeah, yeah. A lot of other fun stuff. You did. Oh, you Bobby Joe, in the Big Apple. Good time band. You mentioned that to me. over email. I was a pilot with Ed Begley Jr. Actually a bunch of big names. What was that experience? Like?

Michael Gray 38:21

That was fun, even for us. Tucker was in that too. Oh, wow. So I got to meet Ed, it was great working with Ed and Forrest Tucker. There are a lot of good actors in that pilot. We love doing it. It was great. Unfortunately, didn't sell to a TV series was fun shooting it.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:38

And then I read. You know, the Osborne's?

Michael Gray 38:42

Yeah. My wife and I owned a flower shop for a while. And Ozzy and Sharon. They were our clients. We had a flower shop and their office was right next door to ours to in West Hollywood. But we moved to the Beverly Hills and they moved next door to West to they were so nice to us. They invited us they had a wedding. They went to Hawaii to Vegas to do it by just to go with them. So we got to go to their house a lot. Very, very nice people, Ozzy and Sharon Osborne. Both very nice. And then I did a show at atm I think it was but they wanted me do an episode where I walked up to to the eyes Warren's door and knocked on the door and got to meet them. So I asked shit they asked Sharon Ozzie if they would do it for me. And they said yes. So knocked on the door as he opened the door and said, Sharon, Shazam is here. I walked in I hug the Ozzy I kissed Sharon on the cheek both such nice people they really were love working with them. They were nice people.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:40

That's awesome. So these days I know you're doing the there's a whole surge of power series that you're a part of movies that you're doing reoccurring on our charge just in the new Shazam. What else is on your plate these days? Just just

Michael Gray 39:55

say I'm fear of the gods. I might get other cameos we've seen other superhero movies, whatever. you sort of see what happened.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:01

If you ever considered writing a book about your life, and actually I

Michael Gray 40:05

am. I'm working on that right now. Actually, yeah. People asked me a long time ago to write a book. So I've been working on it. I changed the title, it was called the idol idol. Because after I was a teenage idol, I became idol. Then I started working again, doing Archer. A few other things, too. So I changed the name of it to Michael Gray. Shazam. So I'm working on the book right now are taking quite a while to finish writing it, but I'm working on right now.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:28

Oh, that's exciting. So after Shazam was, you mentioned, like you just said, based on the title of the of the first title of the book, going idle, was it hard once you did something and we're known as so specifically this character to get other roles and continue down that path acting?

Michael Gray 40:49

Unfortunately, I was a little bit typecast after I did Shazam. I would go in auditions. If people say we can't cast you in these parts. You too recognizable as Billy Batson from Shazam. So it was unfortunate that I couldn't get a lot of work after that. Until I got you know, I did. Archer four episodes, and I did an episode of Comic Book men, which is fun too, because comic book Men. I played Michael Gray dresses, Billy Batson, and the entire cast Broadway Billy Batson shirts. So it was fun doing comic book Men flew to New Jersey to shoot it. And I didn't realize that the whole cast was all wearing Billy Batson shirts, when I walked down the set

Jeff Dwoskin 41:30

that must have made you feel instantly welcome. Exactly. Yeah. There's so many great stories. I appreciate you sharing them with me and spending this time with me.

Michael Gray 41:42

I'm glad you asked me to do it. Jeff, I

Jeff Dwoskin 41:44

really am. I'm honored that you said yes. And yeah, that we're hanging out. It's cool. You know, I don't It's not every day I get to hang out with the superhero, you know, so.

Michael Gray 41:56

It's cool. No, where my manager called me and told me and emailed me and said, You want me to do the podcast, especially when I found out who else you'd worked with in the past. And Begley Burt board, John Wesley Shipp, I got to I did a few Comic Cons of John Wesley Shipp was great. I did Comic Con, with that Begley to a Pasadena Comic Con several months ago, and other people till I got to comic cons with tools that you've worked with. So I wanted I really was looking forward to doing this with you.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:25

Oh, wow. I'm so glad because I was eagerly looking forward to doing it with you. So I'm glad. I'm glad we were able to hang out and you should come to one of the Motor City Comic Cons one of these days, so it'd be awesome to meet you in person in person. Maybe I will. That would be amazing. That'd be amazing. Cool. Is that in Michigan? Yeah, Michigan. Yeah.

Michael Gray 42:47

I did Grand Rapids Comicon. About a year ago.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:50

Oh, I missed that. That's a few hours, like West. So that's not always on my radar. I'll keep my eyes open for the next one. Sorry, I missed that. Oh, gosh.

Michael Gray 43:01

It was fun. I like doing Grand Rapids was great. It's a great,

Jeff Dwoskin 43:04

great. Grand Rapids is a great great city. It's really cool place. I haven't been to the Comic Con they're usually go to the Motor City. Comicon. And then there's some other smaller ones in the area as well.

Michael Gray 43:15

Maybe I'll get to do it. Hopefully, maybe my book is a book man there. We'll see what happens. Yeah, that'd

Jeff Dwoskin 43:20

be amazing. Well, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Michael Gray 43:24

Thank you, Jeff. Was fun doing it was a pleasure working with you. All right, one more time for Michael Gray.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:30

How fun was that? The Shazam series, by the way is available on amazon prime you can buy per episode or per season. It's a great trip down memory lane. I definitely recommend that check out Michael's website balm on the socials. You can hang out with him there. Shazam, still nothing. All right. Well, with the interview over, it can only mean one thing I know. We're at the end of another episode. Huge thanks to my special guests, Michael Gray. And of course, a big thanks to all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

CTS Announcer 44:08

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Classic conversations. If you liked what you heard, don't be shy and give us a follow on your favorite podcast app. But also, why not go ahead and tell all your friends about the show? You strike us as the kind of person that people listen to. Thanks in advance for spreading the word and we'll catch you next time on classic conversations.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai