#154 Sharon Gless is making House Calls with Cagney and Lacey

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:30

All right, Colleen, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show go and each and every week and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody, to Episode 154 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for another classic filled episode of conversation. This one's getting super classic. We got Sharon Gless with us today. That's right Cagney from Cagney and Lacey is here, Emmy Award winner Golden Globe winner Sharon Gless. We're talking all about her new memoir. Apparently there were complaints. Sharon has an amazing backstory full of so many amazing stories. We go deep into our past my fascination with her character and Nip Tuck. We talk Cagney and Lacey of course so much so much. You're gonna love my conversation with Sharon Gless, and that's coming up in just a few seconds. In these few seconds allow me to showcase episode 152 My guest Robbie wrist loved him his cousin Oliver on the Brady Bunch. It was also the voice of Michelangelo, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle in the live action movies. Great discussion on whether or not he destroyed the Brady Bunch. So you gotta check that out. Episode 152 Episode 153 is a fan favorite. It was bonus episode live segments from our crossing the streams show that we do every Wednesday. Basically, it's just a bunch of TV binge watching suggestions and we got all the full episodes on my YouTube channel. Follow me there just search the Jeff Dwoskin show on YouTube over 80 hours of TV binge watching suggestions a way to All right, Episode 152 Robbie rest now let's get on with episode 154 The reason you're here Sharon Gless we dive into a lot of stories if you want to hear more about the stories we've talked about definitely check out Sharon's memoir. Apparently there were complaints she goes a lot deeper into a lot of the stories and also there's a ton more so we're going to cover oh my goodness so much so much. I'm just gonna get right to it right now. Everybody enjoy my conversation with Sharon Gless. I'm so excited to introduce you to my guest today starve Cagney and Lacey Queer as Folk Burn Notice just to name a few multiple Emmy and Golden Globe Award winner most recently author of the fantastic memoir apparently there were complaints please welcome to the show. legendary actress Sharon Gless.

Sharon Gless 3:04

Hi, Jeff. Thank you legendary sounds so old, but I'll take

Jeff Dwoskin 3:09

you our legend. You are like you burn you burn. You gotta take Well, thank you for hanging with me on my podcasts much appreciated.

Sharon Gless 3:20

Thank you for inviting me.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:21

So I read your book. I love it. And wow, Emmys and Golden Globes are super cool. I loved the Copa Cabana school of acting certificate that you got. I feel like

Sharon Gless 3:35

I was so offended Joe, my friend had it framed for me,

Jeff Dwoskin 3:38

right Mark Taylor. He talked about everything. I thought that was great. And then you kept it the best and he kept and those are like the things that I think are like so awesome like turning like that rottenness that that paper did I told?

Sharon Gless 3:51

Well, he had that he had the fun nature to do that I was limping around thinking How dare they and then when he had a frame for me, I thought this so who else has that? Who else has that plumber? Nobody no one

Jeff Dwoskin 4:04

you are the are the only graduate

Sharon Gless 4:09

there's nobody else in my class, graduated alone.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:14

It's just part of the legendary status. You know, no one. No one else can take that away from you. And then the other thing I thought was amazing was when you talk about getting roasted by Don Rickles I as a community. Oh, I love that personally

Sharon Gless 4:29

get roasted by Don Rickles is really very, very cool. He has to like you. Oh,

Jeff Dwoskin 4:37

it all comes from love. That's why I was like, yeah, it was I'll take a bowl. Sure. It was really cool to just be part of that.

Sharon Gless 4:44

What do you say? Oh, would you say? Personally I like the Burnett better. Now there's an actress.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:55

Man, a book is awesome. Oh, you know, I didn't want to kind of say well, I wanted to start With one thing so, in 1982, I saw poltergeist okay. And it was the scariest thing I ever saw. And to this day haunts me those scenes in the the tree and obviously the cloud and all that kind of stuff. The only other thing in life that has constantly been in the back of my mind and frightens me is your role and Nip Tuck. Honest to God, when you killed that person with that Build A Bear thing, and you stuffed them. I don't know what it was. But that stuck with me. I mean, that was like, What 2008 2009? That was, I mean, it like haunts me. Like it's right up there with those things. And like,

Sharon Gless 5:39

I got nominated for that. You deserve that? Well, I mean, I did write it. I mean, Brian Murphy was the genius who wrote it. He said it was the sickest, sickest episode of Nip Tuck he'd ever written. He's written some sequins.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:52

Yeah, Nip Tuck push boundaries, like no one's business. But yeah, your character on that was just in saying,

Sharon Gless 6:00

I wear these glasses. I mean, they're really mine. And Brian saw me on a talk show wearing them. And he said, I want you to wear them in the show. And I didn't realize it. But after the show aired, I was in like a little store, buying a little satin baseball jacket, my granddaughter, and the girl who was waiting on me ran away from me and ran in the back of the store. The man who ran the store came out and he said what seems to be the problem? I said, I don't know. She said, all she saw you last was wearing these glasses. I forget, you know,

Jeff Dwoskin 6:35

sure he saw you on the view, right? And then just asked you to just wear what you're wearing on the view.

Sharon Gless 6:41

Ryan saw me in the view and said is that Armani, Zaid? Yeah, and anyway, he said, I want you to wear exactly what you're wearing on that show and wear those glasses. Was it perfect. Thank you.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:51

Was that a fun experience being that evil and working on that show? Talk?

Sharon Gless 6:55

Oh, yeah, it was really fun. I loved I loved doing that part. It my leading man was not nice to me. The

Jeff Dwoskin 7:06

Dylan Wallace was not nice to this small one. Yeah, the one you represented on the show, kinda.

Sharon Gless 7:11

Yeah, it wasn't nice to meet at all. I don't know why. He just was but the other one. The tall, sexy one was so kind to me every morning. He'd say good morning. How are you this morning? And I'd be so relieved that somebody would be nice to me. I don't know if same Dylan

Jeff Dwoskin 7:27

the nice. Christian Troy Julian McMahon.

Sharon Gless 7:31

Oh, that's,

Jeff Dwoskin 7:32

that's the one year right. Julian McMahon?

Sharon Gless 7:34

The smaller one. And I think I think maybe he must maybe he's a method actor, and thought he's supposed to treat me like shit, because I'm the villain. But it was it was. It wasn't fun. I kept going when I did get nominated. I must say he did. Actually.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:52

Well, maybe maybe he was just he was just jealous of of you coming on to the show when he wanted to be Top Banana. But like, he does kill you in the

Sharon Gless 8:01

top banana leaves. You know, it was one of the two stars of the show it over yourself.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:06

Maybe maybe just wasn't comfortable with the strong woman coming in and kind of messing up messing up the rhythm? I don't know. Well, I'm sorry about that.

Sharon Gless 8:14

I was thrilled to be given the part. There's a scene in that where she gets caught selling the bears at a Build A Bear place. You know, she's just that's really who she is. And the retail was never an agent. I asked if I could wear little ears, you know, ruse on my cheeks. So it looked like it a little bit with a bear purse. And they said no. So I went and did my makeup anyway and bought little ears not to be cantankerous, it's just I thought it was more touching that she does that, you know, to sell her bears?

Jeff Dwoskin 8:45

Well, it's it's one of those roles that my therapist said you well, you should get Sharon on your podcast and talk through this. Maybe you can.

Sharon Gless 8:56

How can I help? How can I help you, Jeff?

Jeff Dwoskin 9:01

I think you have Yeah. Is is is is great. Thank you. All right. So that's awesome. So the book is interesting. I didn't know a lot of the backstory. But you come from a very powerful family. Yeah, it was it was an interesting dynamic with your grandparents, my

Sharon Gless 9:17

family. I mean, they were as powerful as my grandparents were my grandparents. My grandfather was very powerful in the industry. And my grandmother was just powerful, just as a woman, you know, I mean, it's really, it wasn't about the industry so much as it was her personal power and what she wanted from me. And for me, she was formidable. My goal, I think first half of my life is to please her and make her proud of me. So when I was asked to write this book, I came up with the title almost immediately. Apparently, there were complaints. It wasn't hard to come up with the subject matter to come up with the idea for the chapters because there were complaints throughout my life and you'll Those who never forget to you know, write you occasionally remember the good review you never, you never forget the bad ones. It's like that.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:08

I yeah, I did stand up and everyone's laughing and the one person in front not that's all. Yeah,

Sharon Gless 10:14

that's right. That's the one who breaks your heart. Right?

Jeff Dwoskin 10:17

It was interesting because I felt like when my mom would tell stories of her mom, so my grandma, it was, there's an era where they want things a certain way. And they expect women to be a certain way and act a certain way and all that kind of stuff. And it's some of that damage carries on over or into the grandkids and stuff like that. They like in our family, there was some weird dynamics, but like, a resonated a bit as I was hearing that,

Sharon Gless 10:41

thank you, I used to have to walk from my grandmother and be seated in a chair in front of her, and then rise from the chair and always sit with my knees together, my ankles crossed, you know, I never could keep my knees together. This is not a comment on my being promiscuous. I'm just not built that way. You know, I'm just was never comfortable with my knees. I ended up being just totally the opposite of everything she wanted. But I think inside underneath it all I remember her really very, very romantically is the word I remember her very well.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:15

That makes sense. It's hard sometimes to certain things like being called when she called you Moby Dick and like trying to lose 40 pounds for the debutante and like the painful things, but then there were things along the way that got you to who you are today as well. It's sometimes right to die when

Sharon Gless 11:32

I did lose the weight. That debutante ball, she did call me the next morning and said that everybody was praising her because they knew she'd locked me up to take the pounds off is you know, in the book, it's a painful journey. Right? But she did call me the next morning and say for a spin misplace she said that goes to you. So then she you know, after she then go do something wonderful like

Jeff Dwoskin 11:54

that, right? And get that give and take and make you feel good. And then yeah,

Sharon Gless 11:59

I was very fortunate really considering.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:02

Hi, there, sorry to interrupt, just need to take a quick break. And thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. Now back to my conversation with Sharon Gless. We're about to talk about her grandfather, powerful attorney. And a really interesting story about Cecil B. DeMille is the 10 commandments. And we're back. Your grandfather was powerful attorney Howard Hughes, Cecil B. DeMille. One of the stories you talk about in the book is being in his house and watching before everyone else the 10 commandments. Oh, Mr. Jim mills. Mr. De Malthouse. Yeah, that's right. That's a three hour and 40 minute movie.

Sharon Gless 12:48

Yeah, there was a break. It was a break. They had a dinner. It was just family and, you know, immediate DeMille family and the grandchildren. And I was age of Mr. Jim Mills, grandchildren. And we were all put in sort of the same table. But I remember we all had round tables within a table claws. And it was in a very big room wasn't like a screening room where you all sit big leather booths, we all sat around these dinner tables just with family. And they screened this movie called The 10 commandments. It was very long, but we've been children. And we they did there was a break in it. But we sat I remember sitting the whole thing. I don't think we were removed. Because we were so young.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:28

How old would you have been at that time?

Sharon Gless 13:30

Oh, what do I say? Nine?

Jeff Dwoskin 13:32

What were your thoughts on the 10 commandments at nine?

Sharon Gless 13:36

I don't think I had any thoughts about it. To be honest with you. It was it was the I mean, the subject matter wasn't as as fascinating to me as the event. Right? Sitting, you know, in, I guess Mr. DeMille, is famous sitting in his home and getting to go out to a grown up thing in my Mary Jane's going through a movie that but the content of the movie I don't remember exciting me as much as the event

Jeff Dwoskin 14:01

was, were you aware like, oh, I met sessile beta males house. I mean, I know like who he was. And like, I mean, you'd like like, where you were like, No, I

Sharon Gless 14:09

knew Mr. Jamil. I knew he was like a famous director. But the fact of me being in a famous directors home now would mean more to me than I knew Mr. DeMille was my grandfather's best friend. And I'd seen on my grandfather's piano, there was a huge, huge photo of tratan nest in this gorgeous huge frame that Mr. DeMille given grandpa. So I was told that that was the star of the 10 commandments and the direct was grandpa's best friend. And that was his way of saying thank you to Neil. I mean, I I knew, but I didn't know

Jeff Dwoskin 14:46

it was normal because it was your life, but I got it. But I promise

Sharon Gless 14:49

you I didn't have that kind of life where I was always going to famous students houses. The big deal for me was I got to get dressed up and just go out. For the adults and see a movie and eat dinner out and you're not in the kitchen, a good wet bathing suit, you know, it was an event.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:08

Good news, Sharon, you get to get dressed up and go out. The bad news is it's assessable beta males. And we're watching a four hour movie buckle of the 10 commandments. We're bringing Passover to life for you right now,

Sharon Gless 15:22

you know, to tell you the truth, Jeff, I don't know if we ever saw the whole film after if it was like four hours. I'm sure after two hours, they may have said that, you know. And it's not like I was oh, here comes the best part. Like,

Jeff Dwoskin 15:38

hey, let's wait to the c part. So that's that. Yeah, you don't want to leave that. So I did have a question. Kind of a slight tangent. But like, do you at any point now dunk toast in yoke? Because never, never because that's like, my favorite thing in the world.

Sharon Gless 15:53

I know. But I just a tip. I can't do it. I tried it once. And I didn't know what the fuss was about. The truth is I really like my eggs hard. I used to like soft, but then when the fight would get runny, I just couldn't go there. So I don't press FansEdge. But no, it still affects me. If I wouldn't dunk my egg in the yolk, I would love to see if anybody was watching.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:14

I was first I was horrified. Because I'm like, Oh my God, I didn't even know that was bad etiquette. I just just thought that was common sense. Just put you of course you put the toast and the

Sharon Gless 16:25

only only in my mother's world.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:28

I didn't I don't know, I don't I didn't. I never heard it. But I was like, Oh.

Sharon Gless 16:35

That's why I wrote about it. It did affect me. I don't do it.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:39

It was it was an interesting dynamic, because that story is about is about your father and your mom. And like, right. And so that was that was interesting. So

Sharon Gless 16:48

some things you never forget. I know,

Jeff Dwoskin 16:51

right? It's funny how you like I liked how you kind of start the book about talking about the photo of you at camp and all that being a happy place and stuff like that. I feel the same way you look at certain photos and stuff and certain things can take you back. Take you back. You can

Sharon Gless 17:05

see that in that child's face. I mean, that's just a happy messy ice cream covered. Dirty clothes kid.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:13

The best. Yeah. Just Oh, so the book title. Apparently there were complaints. So I was interesting. I read it. Like, I don't know, two thirds of the way through. You mentioned that it's it was a response to a quote about why you quit drinking. Right. And then I was watching an old clip on Donny and Marie the show you were on the Danny Murray show. And you were the girl next door. So it was right around 1998. And it was funny because we made kind of a sex joke on the I did. She said I slept with your like, Sharon. You're like I slept with really? Oh yeah. You're like I slept with the producer. You were dying. And I was on Cagney and Lacey. And then you went on. So I know. It's a family show and Marie's like it's an entertainment show. But Donnie, wonderful? Oh, they're the best and like, and then Danny asked you about overcoming the alcoholism. And you said there were complaints? And I just thought Yeah, so that phrase seems to have been with you for a while.

Sharon Gless 18:18

What really happened is there was a big scandal in town. Those days when I went into rehab because I've been playing Christine Cagney all those years and she ended up being a raging alcoholic because the first time it was done on film for the hero of the show has a problem right now here on sort of heroes. Anyway, I was put into Hazleton not against my own well, I should say get your MO You do have to go. Nobody forces you but I went right. And we there was a big scandal about it because the press was saying is life imitating art but she drunk. She did those scenes when Chris Cagney, those award winning scenes. When I got out. A friend of mine said you're in Hazleton. I said yeah. She said why would you like he sold? And I was trying to be amusing. So I just said apparently there were complaints. Seemed like a funny answer to a sensitive subject.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:11

And it just stuck. And you're friends with Marie. So this day?

Sharon Gless 19:15

Yes. To this day. Maria and I are vows. That's awesome. She's wonderful. Just so wonderful.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:21

Maria was my first TV crush when I was away she

Sharon Gless 19:25

Oh, you have good taste. Thank you. She's still beautiful. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Is it sensational? Show my friend Don and I go whenever whenever Marie's in a city near us. We always go we have dinner with Maria afterwards.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:38

That is awesome. So if you always kind of dreamed I know your grandfather was like the movie business is dirty and all that kind of stuff. At what point did that originally persuade you? Like how much did you have in your heart already? Before he kind of put it out of your head?

Sharon Gless 19:53

I used to dream about it, but I never spoke of it ever. I was younger. I think it was in my late and teens when he said that to me, I don't know what persuaded me to ever say I wanted to be an actress because I was never saying things like that out loud those days. Um, but I remember him saying You stay out of it. It's a filthy business. That's an exact quote. And I didn't have the nerve to say, but that's how you made your money. Because you weren't impudent. You know, you weren't allowed to respond like that. But I always remembered it. And then, when I was 26, I finally admitted, it is what I wanted. I worked behind the camera for many, many years as a production secretary. I was at my grandfather's home in Arizona when I stepped grandmother and I emptied a bottle of champagne. And she said, Sharon, you're 26 years old, and you have nothing to show for your life was a little harsh, but I'd been mellowed with the champagne. So you're quite so badly. She's What do you want to do with your life? And she said, Don't think about it. Just say it. Just it doesn't matter what it is. Just say it out loud. Give it air, but had enough champagne. What came out of my mouth. I said, I want to be nurse. She said, so do it. I said, Mary, I'm 26 years old. I'm a little bit long in the tooth little start trying to get into get acting jobs. She said I was under contract MGM when I was your age. I said really? She said, Yeah, I wasn't very good. I only lasted a year. Anyway, a year after that. I was in a contract with the biggest television studio in the world. Universal. That's an

Jeff Dwoskin 21:25

interesting story that kind of leads up to that you your mom kind of let you escape some stories from the book, right? Yeah, like, yeah, escape from my grandmother escape from your grandmother that led to a lucrative career in aluminum siding.

Sharon Gless 21:39

That was very brave. My mother, by the way. I did. I sold aluminum siding. I had no money and I got on a Greyhound bus ran away from home. I was 20 years old. But I was emotionally 12 had been so sheltered. My mom said, here's $200 I had to borrow it from a neighbor. But it's all I have take it and side where you want to go. Let me know where you land so I can send you your trunk. And she said, If I were you, I would say to why. I can't believe this was all happening. By the way. You walked into the house and announced this, but she saved my life. My grandmother was arriving by train that day to Carmel and my mother had to go pick her up and you just didn't ever cross my grandmother. So my mother waited does she knew my bus taken off. And she told my mother what she'd done. She helped me escape. And I asked my mother years later I said, Mom, what did Grimmy say when you told her what you've done? And she said nothing. What could she say? Really, she said I had

Jeff Dwoskin 22:38

to do it. It had to been the hardest thing she ever did. But she knew she had to do it for you.

Sharon Gless 22:42

And she was beholden to my grandmother. You know, she still had a little boy. She was raising and my grandmother was providing for him too. So took a lot of a lot of guts. My gentle, sweet mom really stepped up and saved my life. I think

Jeff Dwoskin 22:57

that's what moms do. Right? Yeah, that's right. That was awesome of your mom. A little heroic moment there.

Sharon Gless 23:03

No kidding. I wrote a short story in a book. Before I wrote my book. I wrote just a short story. Someone asked me to write a short story for women, women of courage was the name of the book. And I told that story about my mom years and years ago.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:18

That's awesome. Yeah, it's a cool part of the kind of the story of the journey.

Sharon Gless 23:23

Well, I need to reiterate, my mother was very gentle and very quiet was me when she was around her mother, and she was very beholden to her as we all were. So it took a lot of balls. Because that was my grandmother's project,

Jeff Dwoskin 23:38

right? Did they see the legendary the future legendary status? You think? No,

Sharon Gless 23:45

my grandmother never saw me. Coming actors. My grandfather saw me sign my contract. But my grandmother had died years before, but I think she sees me from a better place.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:55

Oh, of course. Yeah. Oh, and then the funny thing in the buggy with your grandfather actually wrote the contract that you use.

Sharon Gless 24:02

Is that weird? I was

Jeff Dwoskin 24:03

weird. Yeah.

Sharon Gless 24:04

I showed it to him. And he said he burst out laughing. I said, What's the funniest? That's my contract. I said why? He said, I drew up the first contract between a player and a studio that had been what the 20s to 30s 30s. They were cutting legal things the exact same contract. They've made a few changes. This is my contracts.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:25

It's so funny. When you went back to your grandpa and he gave you the $150 for acting. Isn't he then it was very supportive. Like you said you wanted to be an actress. What was it that he found filthy about the industry? Was it something specific? Or you know, because there's a lot of beautiful parts of it right out of the art that comes out of it. You know a lot about the roles you did change the way people perceive things and change lives. So there's definitely positive beautiful things that come out of it. But what was the filthy part?

Sharon Gless 24:55

I never asked him, but I do know a story about it. And maybe this is one of the it's a filthy business because he was a really, really, really fine lawyer, Howard Hughes, Cecil B. DeMille is Louis B mares and I heard a story about him. And it was about a an actress who had signed a contract. And the contract said she would get top billing in the movie. But now she landed the movie with a man was bigger. But legally, she had the right to top billing. And my grandfather tried to this is just a story I heard. It's true. I tried to reason with her and asked her to please swap positions with the actor who now was a big shot. And she said no, he said fine. And when the billboards come out, I'm going to have them done in paint. And when the first rain comes, your name's gonna wash right off. Now that story I was told is true. And that's what he threatened the actress and her name be denim paint wash right off in first grade. Is that true? I don't know. There's no reason for somebody to tell me this story,

Jeff Dwoskin 26:01

but let's call it true.

Sharon Gless 26:03

So I'm sure I'm sure he don't such huge clients I'm sure had to do a lot of stuff to protect but he was always a gentleman Do you know Right

Jeff Dwoskin 26:15

right right. Side and her up this amazing conversation was Sharon Gless that was an amazing story how but we need to take a quick break. And we're back was Sharon Gless bout to dive into her acting class and her lasting impression on her teacher. What was the acting class like this is the with his style Hormann

Sharon Gless 26:37

SL harm. And you know, I was only there a year when I got my contract universal. I loved it. I was in heaven was frightening moment, sort of had to stand in front of the rest of the class and say my name. I've never done anything like that, say my name and tell them something that would remind me of my name. I can't remember what he said. I'm sure whatever he said, students. But I remember shaking, just terribly having to stand there for like the audience say in front of the class and say my name. I've come a long way. Oh,

Jeff Dwoskin 27:10

yes. But it was the kind of anecdotes that went with that is that later, decades later, you found out she thought you gave the worst audition ever? Yes, two Emmys. Later, later, I

Sharon Gless 27:23

found out from her daughter ended up teaching. And she said, you know, Mom told me. She said mom told me that was the worst audition scene she had ever seen in her entire career. I thought it was good. But she left me in her class because she knew my uncle. My uncle had said Be good to my kids, you know, so she led me into her class. But years and years later, she told her daughter, Eaton, she said, You know, I changed how I taught because of Sharon, us. She used to teach from the outside in she get all your costumes and your looks and you do these psychological gestures and all this stuff to become this character had nothing to do with the inside work. It was all outside physical. And I didn't know I never told her that. I didn't do things the way she told me but I used to go inside first and find whatever it was I needed and then do my scene. And she told her daughter years later she changed her she taught acting. That's

Jeff Dwoskin 28:23

awesome. That's quite that's quite a tribute to you right there. No shit. Well, at least he eventually found out Yes. So interestingly. So you do from here you can you do a play, right? And then 1972 or arann then I wrote the name. Oh, I made a mistake. Oh, go ahead. What was the mistake?

Sharon Gless 28:46

Do you want me to tell that story? Sometimes the weirdest things happen but it wasn't you know, lahner Turner and Schwab's drugstore, you know, on appointment, drinks or school but I did this little play in Encino, California, in the Encino Adult Community Center. We only had folding chairs. We didn't charge anybody only ran two nights. But my first night, I missed my cue. And I was playing a nurse in a period piece, a long white uniform, like World War Two. And I missed my cue and I was out of my uniform. My hair was out of its ponytail. My hair was disheveled. I was changing. And I realized, oh my God, my kids coming. I put on my uniform held it together and just ran on stage. I was so inexperienced ran on stage saying my line, everybody cracked up because they thought that my character was being you know, having sex with the patient. Or old patient. You know, offstage, not offstage, but in the story, and it wasn't. And I got a call from a man who was in publicity at Universal Studios and your natural comic said I want you to meet John Cassavetes should be PhillyD is new film, and I want you to beat money James, the head of our talent department and I said, Okay, cut the bullshit. Who is this? Is it I understand to be skeptical? But I'm telling you, Jeff, because I made that mistake. And you never know who's in the audience. It was a terrible mistake. But it just the actors on stage started laughing. I didn't because I was so panicked. So they thought brilliant, brilliant. You know, it was just a mistake, and it got me the attention of universal.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:29

I think it's amazing how there's always like that one little story where something happens. You make that mistake, the right person sees it. Or in Bernstein, introduce you to Monique James and then rest of your life is changed.

Sharon Gless 30:46

I swear to you do little theater. People say to me, You know what, I want to be an actress. What should I do? To quote Tyne? Daly, I say act wherever you can. It doesn't matter if you have little theater in your child. You never know. You

Jeff Dwoskin 31:00

never know. I mean, it would panic and just not even gone out. Or, oh, no, I had to go on to saying like, made some irrational decision or something like Oh, man, like, I made the irrational decision

Sharon Gless 31:13

of just holding on to my costume. And

Jeff Dwoskin 31:17

it's just an amazing thing. Because then your relationship with Moni James, she was the one that was with you. Through all that. He was formidable,

Sharon Gless 31:26

formidable. She was the they called her the Star Maker. She died. That's she was known as the Star Maker. She was very powerful in those days.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:35

You attract very powerful people. So that's

Sharon Gless 31:39

my dreams, right?

Jeff Dwoskin 31:41

So so you get signed as a contract player? Yes. You become the last contract player.

Sharon Gless 31:47

I did the last contract there in the history of Hollywood. I was the last one to leave 10 years later.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:52

That's incredible. That's incredible. To doubt. I had a question, Eddie Albert. Yes. You're very close. He was very inspirational.

Sharon Gless 32:00

Yes, he was. I mean, he didn't try to teach me things. I mean, but he was formidable. You know, he was a famous actor. In those days. I'd known him for motion pictures and Karen Eaton theater and I'd known him from television. So I knew I mean, he was and he was warm, not warm, like RJ like forever, right? You're Robert Wagner is just so sweet and warm and encouraging. And, you know, Eddie's a little, little to be a little scary. I write in there. He does character. We did a series called Switch about a cop and an ex con form, partnership just you know, solve crime. And he played the X company. If when you sit at his desk, he always worn his bright red sweater. Right, right red, and I was trying to be you know, one of the guys jokes. I said, So Eddie, you turned upstage me with that sweater. said Honey, I don't have to wear a red sweater and upstage you I just learned humility all along the way.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:03

It's too funny. I was big incredible hog fan. So Jack Colvin, I Yeah. Jack McGee. i Yeah, love incredible hog. It was like, it was like, oh my god, Jack Coleman. So that was those are. Those are some cool stories from the book. And yeah,

Sharon Gless 33:21

used to train me almost every night. He and I obviously we lived together for five years. But he used to train me every night wherever scenes I was doing because he was an actor.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:29

Sure, sure. So when I read the story about house calls, in Rogers addresses so I read this his soul. I kind of got upset with him when I read the story. Yeah, it was like I didn't know what it was like. I know that kind of thing can happen these days like with what happened with Lynn Redgrave being like go because of nursing and all that kind of stuff. But

Sharon Gless 33:53

then Cagney and Lacey yet so I didn't know that. I was just stunned. She was fired because she wanted to make as much money as he did. Lynn Redgrave want to make as much money she

Jeff Dwoskin 34:06

wants. She was built over the title wicked. She deserves

Sharon Gless 34:11

the title with him and she after I think three years she wanted to make as much money as he did. And she wanted to nurse her baby on the set her new baby and he had her fired. When I met with him. One of the first things out of his mouth was I could have saved her you know?

Jeff Dwoskin 34:27

Yeah, that's that was the exact line that made me go oh, I don't like Wayne. But you being probably the coolest person ever. This story about you having a cast party, not inviting him and inviting Lynn Redgrave who you've replaced ever

Sharon Gless 34:45

better. I mean, she was she was like Lynn Redgrave

Jeff Dwoskin 34:48

Hello, and then taking a fight at the party that was like that was Lynn's ID

Sharon Gless 34:52

I can't take credit for that. I take credit for inviting her, which I thought was kind of a classy thing to do. I'd never met her.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:58

So class right? So classy was she's classier

Sharon Gless 35:01

than I am she except that she said, she said one stage of fight. Yeah, what did we do? She said, well outside your house, you know, if you have an open window and open doors and we can fight outside the castle inside, I said, Great. So I told her about what time to come and it pulled in my driveway because my little has in the driveway, pull up right next to my middle house. I walked out I saw the lights through my windows, while the party's going on like that. Oh my god, she's here. It's like 11 o'clock at night now. And David Wayne, who played the old guy, the old duck, and housecalls. He grew grass and palisade backyard. This is the you know, the early 80s. It was very cool. You brought all this grass and everybody's having a good time and see these lights clock. Oh my god, oh my god, she's here. So I say Excuse me a minute. I don't know who this is. I say to cast and I go out. I said, Hello, Ben Redgrave. She said hello, Sharon. Because suddenly, she said You ready? said sure. And she said What do you mean, you didn't invite you to this party with a British accent? Really loud? I said why would I invite you to the party? You can't ask for shit. You just thought you saw me as a bug me? Fuck you. And she's following me on the lawn to the French doors. And the cast is right inside. I left the doors open. So when I the last time I said, you get out here. I'm calling the police and I slammed the door in her face. And can I see anything I want on the show? Sure. Oh, so I turned to the cast and see what a cup anyway they're all silent and and I said hold on a minute. I went and I opened the French doors and get in here. I'm sick of entertaining these people. She came in and they just they applauded and they loved her so so much so loved. Anyway, it was a very coolly that's it. Isn't that a cool story?

Jeff Dwoskin 36:56

I love that story. I love that story. And if if like phones existed then the way they exist now, and people would caught that. It would it'd be like one of those legendary things right?

Sharon Gless 37:08

You're so right. I know. They were asking when I kick because we were really loud. Using our theater voices, sir. They could hear us I left doors open on purpose. They who couldn't miss her her voice anyway. Anyway, he was a god rest your soul. She was a great day.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:25

Amazing story. And then another major one the Oscar for Georgie. Yes. And then. The other amazing story is your long road to Cagney and Lacey. Okay. I guess I didn't realize Loretta Swit had done it originally, after I was asked to do it. Oh, right. You were at first and then they go by there. But you were under contract. Right. Right. And then it wasn't till the house calls ended that you kind of could then get back into it. Right. It was interesting, because I read that she had probably wished that would have been her next series.

Sharon Gless 38:00

I think so. I mean, obviously we've never spoken.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:03

In fact, other people got out of their mash contracts, ie Wayne Rogers. That's right. And the other guy. I can't remember his name. He there

Sharon Gless 38:12

was no reason for her to get out of mash. She was a huge hazard. It was a hit. But she contractually had to return to mash. She was gonna do it for a show that no one had ever heard of. Right. And yes, it didn't turn out very well for me. And I don't want she felt about it. i She wishes me well.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:30

Oh, I'm sure she does. You know, just little IMDb trivia it was Oh, sure.

Sharon Gless 38:35

Yeah, but she was wonderful. She was wonderful match.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:37

I love that. Michael Douglas. I've given you kind of the push to consider the series. And I know

Sharon Gless 38:44

he was such a nice man. I don't know if he remembers working. I'm sure he does. But I played his wife in a feature just before I overcame being lazy. Not took over. But I stepped in. Okay, when they see it. I always wanted to be in the movies. So they worked my shooting schedule with Michael in his feature around Jamie Lacey. So they put all of my scenes in five days. And then I had to go to start this new show called Cagney and Lacey. Never heard of it. Right. And I asked Michael, Michael, do you think I'm making a mistake? I've always wanted to be in movies. Now I'm set to do this series. And I don't know. Am I making a mistake? He said, Have you ever heard of the streets of San Francisco? I said yes. He said Enough said no, right.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:29

No. Right. Yes. So Cagney and Lacey groundbreaking show. Right? And interestingly enough, right? They weren't going to cancel it but then they brought you on because they they weren't happy with Meg Foster and the dynamic between her and and so

Sharon Gless 39:44

wonderful actress by the way, he just there was no chemistry.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:47

Right. Right. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And, and so you agreed to come on and then you become Christine Cagney. And then it was interesting. It was interesting like reading about and just I I think it's hard to not notice this in watching clips online and just even just over the years while the show was on and after just your relationship with time daily, like just how close you guys are.

Sharon Gless 40:12

I write about her quite a bit in the book. Because, I mean, I was her third cake. And she liked the last one she loved make it we're very close, and they toured the country trying to save the show, you know, I mean, they really, they really hit it off, and they loved each other. So bringing me on board was not Tynes dream. And she didn't know me and didn't know my work. And anyway, it was tense. It was tense. But once I signed on, and we got our billing disputes settled.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:47

Very clever way to resolve that dispute. Also,

Sharon Gless 40:51

that's it Barney Rosensweig did. Neither visceral willing to move off of our position of being first build time had every right to want to be first go to just about the third time she was about to play Lacy, you know, and here comes his blonde that I had high DBQ that I brought with me. And I'd already been you know, anyway, so. So I didn't let go of my position and neither did she. So Barney said, why don't we split it every other week, we'll flip. So every other week we flipped. And the week that I was billed first, there would always be a print ad, you know, in papers she'd revealed first in the print ad, and the next week, she'd be billed first and I'd be billed first in the print

Jeff Dwoskin 41:29

ad. That's a great compromise that we're sure you know, but I mean, at the time, it meant a lot. No, no, I totally I can understand that I loved it was interesting also. So the end of season one, the end of your part of it as well. The show got canceled, right. And interestingly enough, I mean that now we live in the in the world of social media right now. That'd be a tweet, storm. There we go. There'd be like, there's no such thing. No such thing back then. But amazingly, back then everyone took to paper and typewriter. And server paper and pen and then a stamp and stamps and that envelope.

Sharon Gless 42:11

And Barney Rosen swag wrote a form letter for which he apologize to everybody who wrote offering their condolences for the demise of the show. And he said you have power? Oh, yeah. It's an incredible thing. Yeah, right CBS because they never read them. You said but write your local newspaper, write these out the New York Times at the LA Times and your local affiliate station. So everybody wrote two letters. Each person wrote two letters and bags of mail started coming into CBS from these affiliate stations or New York Times, you know, and they said, Uncle, you're wrong. It's incorrect, right. Nine months later, Barney had to bring the cast together hoping he could get the cast back that nobody signed on for something else had to bring the studio back he built a studio, or he taken an old warehouse and turned it into a studio and he had to get his own studio back. But he did it.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:07

It's incredible. And then that summer ratings blew up and then you guys want you guys received four Emmy nominations for this first year. Yes, we did. So all I was cancelled. They they backtracked and brought it back. So

Sharon Gless 43:21

one time won four Emmys. I want to you want to she won four. She won four.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:27

But the story you tell in the book about her fourth, which would have which you were hoping would have been your third and then you had to present after after not winning? Oh, okay. This was like burned. Michaels. Lorne Michaels gave you a speech to read when you went out there because time now just one and you had lost and this is I guess it never happened. The presenter averages loss before. I mean, just

Sharon Gless 43:52

I've never had a presenter present after their categories just never been done. Because if they lose, you know, it's just he said that before the evening, and the day before he came for rehearsal, or I did. And he said, I'm going to try something. Let me win or lose. And once you present the award after your category, said great, you said I've written two speeches, one if you win, and one if you lose, and he's a funny guy. Oh, yeah. I memorized the one if I won, because I was trying to be positive. I did take my glasses out with me. So I apologize to the audience thing. I'd memorize the other one. And I read presenting the next award from someone who just lost one. And he's a font. Nora and Michaels is very funny.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:37

Oh, it's so funny. And then you basically stole the night and it was it was a great, it was a great, great story. I love I love that one.

Sharon Gless 44:44

Thank you. Even Jack Lemmon later that night told me I'd made his night last June so

Jeff Dwoskin 44:50

that's awesome. Jack Lemmon. You also mentioned again he wrote you about his privacy with alcohol and I

Sharon Gless 44:56

was in Hazleton when I got out of his and he'd read all the Press about me, you know, the bad press and I wrote me a letter. Didn't put it through the mail. He actually came to my house and put it in my mailbox gave me like his four phone numbers. While I was so starstruck, I called immediately left a message on a cell phone. I mean, just giddy as hell, thanking him so much for support. I never heard from him again.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:20

But what a lovely such a nice gesture. Hey, if

Sharon Gless 45:23

I was ever in trouble, or I didn't know, I was confused. Please call him he understood.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:29

That's so cool. So cool. It's nice when you learn all the good people out there. Yeah. I had a question with Cagney and Lacey. Alright, so Barney made you and time custodians of the character mainly basically put you in charge of, I guess, the continuity or how they were acting. And if the script came in, you could push back. It was normal. I mean, it was at like, one of the groundbreaking things too. I'd never heard that before, where the writers didn't kind of own that, where they you were given like that kind of control. I thought that was super cool. But

Sharon Gless 46:00

well, yes. And verbally his thing. You're now the custodian of these characters is anything doesn't ring true for you, please come to me and I will set you up for writers. That was true time. And I used to go in at the very beginning, we used to go in together, you know, for a meeting. And then Bernie got that it was sort of awkward time work differently than I did. She knew exactly what she did, like, gee, if you didn't like the structure, the script, I didn't know dick about structure, you know, I just knew emotionally about my characters, then he'd set the meetings at private, and I'd go in and he would interpret for me, you bring a writer in and then interpret what I just said to you. Because I didn't know how to talk to the writers. I was more emotional, and he would interpret for me and time you just bring in the writer and she just don't I don't like this

Jeff Dwoskin 46:53

I love this story you tell about just how you each chose what type of cup to drink your coffee out of to help define your characters. I mean, it was like those are sort of like some of those meta details that were there. You know, you're not it's like you just become so

Sharon Gless 47:07

it was sort of an accident. I personally never liked commitment. And I personally always drink out of a Styrofoam cup, even Scotch at the end of the day, or anyone invite Tynan me to his office at the end of the day to have a drink with him. And Carol his assistant always knew to make mine in a Styrofoam cup and tines in a glass is the show evolved somebody a fan made a coffee cup that said Lacey and a coffee cup that said Cagney dug into the cup and Lacey put it on the coffee stand with the other detectives cups, and I never wanted to drink out of a real cup. I just thought that isn't like Cagney either. She's on the run, you know Screw it. She just throws the cup away on her way out the door. So I put mine on my desk and put my pencils in. unleashes Yes. And to this day I have it in my home in LA. I pins. That's amazing.

Jeff Dwoskin 48:00

I love Yeah, that's

Sharon Gless 48:02

but time was a permanent person. I mean she committed I mean I'm sorry Lacey Lacey committed to better to a family to children to the job, Cagney pretty much anything except the job. That was everything.

Jeff Dwoskin 48:16

And then your neck, your neck. Sammy on Cagney Lacey was for Turn, turn turn part two. Yes. Where you confront alcoholism? How difficult was that? Because then a year later it was it became sort of life imitating art. Right. So

Sharon Gless 48:31

it was a year later. Yeah, I mean, the next, the second to the last year, Barney had had a meeting with the writers. You'd always have a meeting before the season, give them instruction or to hear their ideas, you know, how they saw characters evolving. And just like at the end of year four, had an interview when they said you know that Cagney's the adult child of an alcoholic Nick Cagney been drinking for four years on sunscreen, she was always drinking somebody she was sleeping with the gay neighbor across the way always with her father was a drunk and he always had a drink in her hand. But it's all fun and games, you know yet and this woman said, you know, the Cagney's the adult child of an alcoholic. I say when you say and I guess she is because your father's? She said, Well, you have all the attributes of it. I said, really? So I went to Barney. After the interview. I said, Did you know that Chris Cagney has all the attributes of an adult child of an alcoholic? He says, Honey, you're the one planner. I said, Oh, he said you're the one playing or you're the one putting that stuff in. You said, I know you never want Cagney to be a victim. She's been drinking for four years now. Do you want to deal with it? I said I don't know. said okay. So he wrote a script and he called me into his office. He said nobody has seen this. Once you read it. Tell me what you think. And I swear to you, nobody. But the writer, the two writers who wrote I went home and I read it. And I came back the next morning and I said brilliant. You can You get to play it. It was so devastating. It was a devastating piece of material. It was a two parter. And I ended up playing it but there had never been anything like it on television ever. And there never been a hero on television who fell from grace. You know, heroes were heroes. And she you see all the scenes in her apartments you hadn't been seen for the last four years. And it was bloody. It was violent. It was we did a screening of it sounds so arrogant of me and I'm not an arrogant person. We did a screening of it. I never watched myself Okay. Already said I had to come to the screening because it was press and family. To see the two parter. The second half of the two parter. Every scene at the end of every scene, people would applaud every single scene they'd applauded and made a vlog and Bernie, at the end of the show, I was just stunned as I ever watched myself sit stand right here. You're gonna want to come by everybody. The room all the press, everyone one by one came by to talk to me. And I didn't write it. But it was devastating to watch your hero fall from grace like that. And they help shine Daly who comes in the next morning and Katie doesn't even remember she was there. It's the time daily then coming and picking up the pieces. Amazing scene. It was an amazing episode. Amazing. Oh, what I was gonna tell you is the year before that. Barney had a meeting with the writers. And he said I want to give you the last line of the last scene of the last episode of next year's said Wow. Okay, what you said my name is Christine, and I'm an alcoholic. Today you have 22 episodes to

Jeff Dwoskin 51:44

get. That's quite a challenge for the writers where they must Oh shit. Yeah, that was good. Because interesting in that but if being one of the first if the first time a main character gets kind of you know, faces demons like that it was it was groundbreaking just and how they would get to that and make sure that they pulled it off. As well as

Sharon Gless 52:05

pull any punches. I must say that Barney did do me a great favor. The minute I entered my apartment, which is when the destruction starts she Anders it dropped then you see all the seach he allowed me to shoot it in order. You never shoot anything in order. It's all shot out of sequence. But because I had to fall so adding stuff. He let me shoot in order. So I remember what I did. How far I said.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:32

Brilliant. Yeah, he knew how to take care of you and the character for sure. One funny, additional funny story in the book. Is you meeting Paul McCartney and not knowing you must

Sharon Gless 52:46

believe that. I was so nervous. I'm shy. But I am shy. And I was so nervous. Meeting the Royals and stuff at the BBC. Black Tie thing. Paul McCartney apparently Barney said did you get his art? He comes up to me. He says did you get his autograph? I said who's? He said Paul McCartney said I didn't see Paul McCartney. He said he just asked for your autographs. I love Oh my god. If I ever had the privilege of meeting him again. I'd love to tell him. I have your autograph. Now. Is it too late?

Jeff Dwoskin 53:20

I'm sure he I'm sure he remembers. He was probably just standing there going. Um

Sharon Gless 53:26

you know, I'm being the Big Shot, right? Sure.

Jeff Dwoskin 53:28

All right here. Oh, man. I just I

Sharon Gless 53:31

don't even know if I asked you this day. You do I make it out to you.

Jeff Dwoskin 53:36

Which one are you?

Sharon Gless 53:40

Oh, I didn't know. I was talking to a Beatle. I had no idea. I was so

Jeff Dwoskin 53:45

nervous. to Paul. Follow your dreams. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That was so funny. Well, Monday, me maybe one day. The other cool thing. I mean, when I say oh, they're cool. There's a million cool things. You played the role of Annie on misery and Stephen King play misery. Right. No question. That was the first time this play was brought or the that story was brought to a play right. So you originated the stage stage right? Even King

Sharon Gless 54:14

told the writer can I get my here's our director to anyway, this Stephen King told him he'd always seen it as a two hander only two people on stage for two hours. None of this stat none of the town folks coming into the share effort. You know, the people usually enter just this just the two of them. And it was it was bloody. We did it. Right. It was written as Stephen King wrote the book, just much rougher than the movie.

Jeff Dwoskin 54:40

I know. I read you're talking about it.

Sharon Gless 54:44

I mean, Kathy Bates was brilliant in the movie, but the movie was soft compared to what Stephen King actually wrote.

Jeff Dwoskin 54:50

I didn't realize how soft it was till I read your book. Yeah, but the parallels I wanted to kind of draw though is you're you're playing the crazy fan. You talk about in the book, you had your own, at least one that you talk about crazy fan like really was going to try and kill herself in front of you and very disturbed person. But the story that I actually wanted to kind of mention is that I thought

Sharon Gless 55:14

I never used your name. No, no, no, You never used it and I won't know I do that

Jeff Dwoskin 55:18

projector. Oh, no, no, I'm not going to ask I the the story. Where that I wanted to share is a year prior to your incident. Rebecca Schaefer from my sister Sam had been shot by a fan. And that was Pam Dawber of the Great show that she was in and and you testified at the California Supreme Court and got the law change that allowed the crazy fan who got Rebecca's information through the DMV changed? Yeah, the

Sharon Gless 55:49

Department of vehicles was giving out addresses and and Pam's parents and her fiance, flew with me to Sacramento, and we got the law changed. The DMV could never do that. That's how she got killed.

Jeff Dwoskin 56:01

Right. So I thought, I thought that was just so really cool.

Sharon Gless 56:05

I took the bag of all the letters that my receipt assailant mine person had male had sent to me over the years and then shipped those up to Sacramento. Left them just left them there. They were too busy to listen to us. I mean, there's Pam darbus parents, and her fiance. And they were too busy to listen to us. But I left the literature and they knew why we were there. And that day, they passed a law.

Jeff Dwoskin 56:30

That's awesome. Now, how many of them were saved? By closing? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 56:34

Paul, you should.

Jeff Dwoskin 56:36

So what's next for Sharon Gless? What are you working on these days?

Sharon Gless 56:40

I don't know. I just did one scene in a movie in New Orleans. It's a really naughty scene. It's a piers bras and just start the show. Forgive me another very beautiful young hot actress from Brazil. Arena. Give me I can't remember her last name. Anyway, the scene is starts out with piers and me and Marina. And then it just ends with Marina and the most of it is with Marina. It's the dirtiest scene anyone's ever said. He sent me the scene, say if you'd like to see the rest of the script, please let us know. They said this scene has nothing to do with rest script. And anything that could come out of my mouth that I could imagine, isn't missing. I said I don't need this script. I did. But I said How long is the most powerful? It's wonderful. It's a wonderful scene and right to talk to the director by zoom and want to know Ireland's accent so takes a little and doesn't take much to the edge of filth that comes out of my mouth. But it was it was cool. It was cool. I got to meet peers president who's a charming very, very charming, lovely, lovely.

Jeff Dwoskin 57:53

You got to hang with James Bond.

Sharon Gless 57:55

I get to hang out. That's really cool. Yeah. And he sent me roses to my room.

Jeff Dwoskin 58:00

That is awesome. That's so bad. And then Don chimed in with Marina bacharan. Right. Thank you, Don. Thank you, Don. Yeah, she she was great in homeland and V and the Deadpool movies.

Sharon Gless 58:15

That's right. Forgive me. I'm, I'm Oh, no, no, it's just Hayley mills. Yeah, but she's very beautiful and was wonderful in the scene. And it's really naughty.

Jeff Dwoskin 58:27

I can't enjoy it. I just wrote I wrote a note. It's, it's on my to do list. Whenever it comes out.

Sharon Gless 58:36

It's called fast, Charlie. Charlie.

Jeff Dwoskin 58:38

Yes. First name is gotta gotta Got it. Got it. Okay, very cool. Very cool. And that

Sharon Gless 58:43

was just like a month ago. So now I want to do I have another series and

Jeff Dwoskin 58:49

yeah, you do. Yeah. Do you have one like that you could written like, where you need to shop it or? No, just you on the lookout.

Sharon Gless 58:56

I'm not a writer. I'm not a writer, just to

Jeff Dwoskin 58:59

or Barney find somebody you know, something like that. Like, you know, like he did for trials of Rosie O'Neil that kind of thing like, find you.

Sharon Gless 59:06

He she was Bernie's idea. Yeah, he told writers you know what he wanted, like and Cagney and Lacey. But I don't, I don't have a plan. I'd like to do a one camera comedy or have to be a lead in one camera, though. I

Jeff Dwoskin 59:21

don't like no multicam multicam. No,

Sharon Gless 59:24

I just think it'd be fun. So I did some research on me. My book came out. He said, Do you know that you've done nine television series? The only person who has matched you and that was Cloris Leachman.

Jeff Dwoskin 59:36

That's a lie. So

Sharon Gless 59:37

really, I didn't know that. He said yes. Nine. Wow. And Clarissa has now gone. You said the only person who is beat you out is Betty. Fine. She's done. 10 that's within my goal is to join Betty in that. Not now, not where Betty is. No, I'm not ready to join Betty. But I would be honored to join Betty in that accomplishment.

Jeff Dwoskin 59:58

We got to make that one clip aren't it? So let's come up with an idea. We can do something maybe a female James Bond or something.

Sharon Gless 1:00:04

Yeah, we could do it something irreverent. All right. Well,

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:08

yeah. I hope that happens, because that is something I would love to see.

Sharon Gless 1:00:12

Thank you. Thank you, Jeff. Well, thank

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:14

you so much for hanging out with me. This has been wonderful. An honor a blast.

Sharon Gless 1:00:20

Oh, you've made it. So you've made me so comfortable. Thank you. I really had a good time.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:24

Oh, wow. Awesome. I appreciate that. It was yeah, it was cool. I know. We didn't there's so much more. We there's so much more we could still go into but I am so appreciative. Oh, we'll do it again.

Sharon Gless 1:00:34

We'll do it again. Very good.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:36

I would love that

Sharon Gless 1:00:37

proved I proved negative for COVID. Today, I got COVID. Both my husband and I did today I'm oh well.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:44

Today, you're now you're negative. You can just go out and like touch anything. Go out and touch anybody or anything. You got antibodies for 90 days. You're like You're like a super human right? You can do anything.

Sharon Gless 1:00:55

My ego was totally shattered. I think I had such arrogance. But never getting it. I got it. So

Jeff Dwoskin 1:01:01

I just got it also, actually. And so I'm in the same boat. I was the same arrogance that you had we gone all this time. So good. I know. So, so good. So Oh, well. Now we've done that. Now we've gotten through it. All right now we can focus on your next TV series. So Okay, where can people keep up with you? Sharongless.com. And social media is what he already has done. has done. Well. John talking will get done in a second.

Sharon Gless 1:01:35

But she's probably busy. No, I'm

Dawn 1:01:36

I'm muting myself. She's on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all the usual places. Sharongless.com. Her husband frequently puts blogs out on Cagneyand lacey.com. And the movie Fast Charlie comes out March 17. So that'll be fun to watch. Hell yeah. Why

Jeff Dwoskin 1:01:55

did you hear what? You hear the whole discussion earlier?

Dawn 1:01:58

I did. And it will be fun to watch. Because if you've ever seen her and Queer as Folk, you'll know she's capable of such pretty language.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:02:08

I haven't ever been more excited for anything, John. Thank you very much. Oh, she's pretty. Isn't she beautiful? Oh, stop sharing. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Sharon. You are beautiful. Also, thank you so much for spending this time with me. It was it was great.

Sharon Gless 1:02:24

Oh, Jeff, thank you very much. Johnson, my best friend.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:02:28

I know. She introduced herself at the very beginning. She doesn't

Sharon Gless 1:02:31

work for me. She just does this because she loves she made

Jeff Dwoskin 1:02:35

herself. Right in the beginning. She's like Sharon is gonna be here in a minute. She was great.

Sharon Gless 1:02:39

If she worked for me. She wouldn't bossed me around like she does. Awesome bosses me around.

Dawn 1:02:45

Well, somebody's got to do it. Somebody's got to be strong enough to stand up to her right. If you're on payroll, you can't stand up to your boss. You can't afford me anyway, Jeff.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:02:57

Guys, you guys are hilarious.

Dawn 1:03:02

Yeah, sometime in the next interview. I'll tell you our backstage Maria Osman meeting of the very first time to demonstrate that what you heard earlier is absolutely in fact, correct. When? Well, Sharon, just you know, you tend to have a very fun vocabulary.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:03:23

Oh, that I not, that's what we love about you can. All right, the wonderful Don, the wonderful Sharon Gless.

Sharon Gless 1:03:30

Thank you, Jeff, so much for this talk. And you're really good at it. You made me very comfortable.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:03:37

Thank you so much. I'm so honored. Awesome. Thank you. Bye. All right, everybody. The amazing Sharon Gless and Dawn. Dawn was listening in all the time and every now and then would DM me a little fact. So if all of a sudden I just said something random. It was likely because Dawn sent me a DM so she's a good friend of Sharon's and it was lovely to have her as an impromptu part of the show. Go to Sharongless.com. You can get links to all her socials in the book and all that kind of good stuff. I love that Paul McCartney story. Oh, my goodness.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:04:12

Okay. Well, with the interview over, it can only mean one thing. That's right. It's time for another trending hashtag from the family of hashtags that hashtag are round up, download a free hashtag roundup app at the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store totally free doesn't cost a penny tweet along with us and one day one of your tweets may show up on a future episode of Classic conversations, fame and fortune awaits you. The hashtag for this episode is hashtag cold cop shows from a weekly humorist a weekly Game On hashtag round up of course inspired by one of the greatest cop shows ever Cagney and Lacey This is #ColdCopShows. It's the ultimate mash up between anything cold or chilly and cold. up shows you mash those two things together. What happens? hilarity ensues Of course. All right here are some #ColdCopShows. Hawaii Five snow Adam 12 below thaw in order to get it hashtag cold cop shows. Is it some ultimate mashup tweets I'm dropping on? Yeah. MC chillin and wife NYPD turn in blue Barney chiller. Jake in the Iceman, you got your own #ColdCopShows. Tweet, go tweet it right now tag us at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter. We'll show you some Twitter love on your #ColdCopShows tweet but here's some more Beverly chills cop ice chips, NYPD Blue lips Hawaii Five Below carpeted for below. Where are you? And our final #ColdCopShows tweet Cagney and AC Oh, I saw that one coming maybe right add to have a Cagney and Lacey one in there. Thank you CK. All right. All these tweets are retweeted at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter, Go show him some Twitter love, tweet your own and have some fun with it.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:06:09

All right, well with the hashtag over and the interviewer over calling me one thing. Oh, Episode 154 has come to an end. I want to thank my amazing guest, Sharon Gless and Dawn. And of course I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week means the world to me. And I'll see you next time.

CTS Announcer 1:06:30

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai