#272 Heading to Walnut Grove with Alison Arngrim of Little House on the Prairie

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Melissa, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 272 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be the classic hits episode of all time. We're going to the Little House in the prairie. That's right, buckle up. We're headed to Walnut Grove with my guest today. Alison Arngrim That's right. Nellie Oleson herself is here. We're talking little house and we're talking all about Alison's amazing memoir Confessions of a Prairie Bitch how I survive Nellie Oleson and learn to love being hated. And I can hate this interview. You're gonna love this conversation that's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds. Evan Matthews was here last week Brad Sherman was here last week, two amazing interviews just waiting for you. Evans is an amazing director Craig is the president of the Jim Henson Legacy Foundation and author of salmon friends. The story of Jim Henson's first TV show, check those out after you check out my conversation with Alison we're talking about her comedy album. Here's Amy blow LeBeau Fantasy Island, Maria, Jasmine and of course Little House on the Prairie as coming up right now. All right, I'm excited to introduce my next guest, actress, comedian, Best Selling Author, child abuse and aids advocate. Oh, she's huge in France. Huge author of other of Confessions of a Prairie Bitch how we survived Nellie Olson and learn to love being hated. Welcome Little House on the prairies. Very Oh Nelly to the show. Alison, our Grom

Alison Arngrim 2:18

Hi. Oh my god, what a fabulous introduction. Thank you. You're so nice. Thank you.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:21

So the question I want to start off with which I think is the question everyone wonders is why were you so mean to Vicki? Stubing Why are you so mean to Vicki on The Love Boat?

Alison Arngrim 2:31

Oh my god. I was just talking to her. You know, we just we just did an event. We just did an event together. Well, I mean, I did it by video. She was there just because it was in like, I don't know pain somewhere near the country. i She is so amazing. Well, of course we had a moral in that episode Aleppo, because the evil monkey Daniels was playing who's so miserable or a child star weather and Gert who was played by Nancy called report Mickey Daniels had no real friends and thought only people who wanted something from her wherever around her, you know, hangers on Celebrity sycophant. So here was someone who really liked her for her and she couldn't deal and realize that she there are such things as true friends so seats that there was there was more there was more she was horrible to her because she thought she was as a Latour positively if I called her and then hit her with pies she is so nice a Joe Whelan got me that job so if she didn't like it, it's her fault. Yeah, cuz she was single about Office for some time and camp students daughter and they would have the elders meetings cascaded. Here's what's coming up next week, blah, blah, blah. And they said, Oh, here we have this one where this horrible girls child star comes to the love vote and Jill's like you're getting Alice in our group, right? Like what because well, you got to get Alison Arngrim, she's nearly also a little house in the prairie. So ha ha ha Nellie Oleson playing the you know, big Daniels, but she said that also chill was going to Buckley school with Melissa Gilbert. She said, I'm going to school with Melissa Gilbert. Melissa keeps telling me how much fun Allison is and I want her on the show. I want to hang out with her. So they're like, Okay, and next thing I know I'm on love but so she'll totally taught me that gig and it was wonderful. And she recently she does these events. She does a whole show. And so I appear by video in that and it's just lovely. We love her.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:00

I'm a big Love Boat fan. When I talked to Karen Grasso. I lead off with her episode of The Love Boat as well.

Alison Arngrim 4:06

Um, yes, Love Boat is so much fun. I did Love Boat Fantasy Island because as I used to say, you know, it's like a court ordered program you're on TV in the 70s and 80s you had to do love but fantasy islands a law and fantasy and lose a lot of work that was hard. I think it was also because it was like right after the actor strike and you're shooting like two episodes at a time. And also because I played a runaway teen and becomes a hooker I was a hooker on fantasy island and in my giant five inch by keels watching a 17 hours a day and it was just like a nightmare. Whereas Love Boat I was working normal hours and just playing a lovely wonderful brat and hanging out with Nancy cope and Ronnie shell and Jill Whelan and everyone loved it so it's like yeah, so choice between of being on fantasy only being a love but I would take love every time it was a much nicer

Jeff Dwoskin 4:46

experience. Plus you're on a awesome boat.

Alison Arngrim 4:48

I get to go on the boat and you know hardly anybody ever got to go on the boat. They took the boat like twice a year baby Charles that's got to go to Jarrah always going on the boat. So jealous juror always went on about certain big stars when in the boat and the rest of the year. or is it 20 Century Fox and you're on a soundstage and there's a hunk of boat railing and blue screen of the sky in the sea and you just stand there looking at go see is beautiful.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:10

No boat Bob's dive this is like finding out there's no Santa Claus. So cool.

Alison Arngrim 5:14

There was no boat boats was only once a year and only certain people got to do.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:18

All right, since you mentioned Fantasy Island real quick. I was watching a clip of you from your one woman show Confessions of a Prairie Bitch and you were talking about horrible actors you're joking about how you've never slept with anyone famous.

Alison Arngrim 5:30

It's true. It's true never slip. It's like everybody has their books and you know got Melissa Gilbert you got Rob love me you know curvy delicious Tony. I got all the weirdos all the way I did. I never dealt with anyone famous. Everyone I know who's on TV has some story about a man affair with somebody. Not at all, like just good blue collar working guys, but I only because I didn't maybe if I'd had a really hot, amazing celebrity that I liked. I had hit on me at an opportune time. Maybe maybe something would have had but instead I had heard Villa shez who was just kind of hitting randomly generally hitting on everyone it was just kind of a group hit on it wasn't personal. It was he was dealing in all cast everyone every single human being he sought to sleep with him someone say yes and apparently work models. He got married I but I was just like, stop. Alright, and then Grizzly Adams cornering me by the Punchbowl and Brenda Vaccaro was Christmas. And that was just all just odd and awkward and strange. Although I later have talked to people who went out with them and I don't know I'm hearing I totally missed out I missed a party apparently. I should have gone but I've been told

Jeff Dwoskin 6:33

once you go Grizzly Adams you don't go back. I think that's what lets you go bear. Yes, normally I don't bring up like dating history and stuff like that. But when you when you were talking about like being chased by tattoo and Grizzly Adams, I had to I had to go into solely

Alison Arngrim 6:48

the streets. Just the start when I was like, Why Why me? Oh, God.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:53

So funny. laughing so

Alison Arngrim 6:54

hard and spilling my coffee on myself. This is hilarious.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:57

So I read your book and loved your book. And like I read like you. I'm a big fan of your podcast as well. By the way, thank you. We can talk about that more at the end or kind of how it whenever it works in naturally. But the Alison and grim aren't grim aren't grim. Sorry, I

Alison Arngrim 7:11

hate to Icelandic. We have too many consonants. We're a country that needs to buy a vowel. Because it's a R and G are I am, which makes no sense. But it's Icelandic Toots are

Jeff Dwoskin 7:21

great. It's a hard last name. So that's on you, Alison.

Alison Arngrim 7:25

My, as my father said, thank yourself lucky. Because if we'd been real Icelandic name would be for Hagler daughter,

Jeff Dwoskin 7:31

mine's Dwoskin. And people just throw letters at ours in there and stuff like that. Or they said DW Oh, it's like, it's so. So I'm usually I'm like, I'm really I try anyway. Okay, so big fan of your podcast, whatever the name is. And, and I love your book. You know, I read a lot of books in the interviews, a lot of memoirs, and you are so open with your book and the stories and I really felt like I got to know you. So I was really excited to talk to you. There's so many. Thank you. Thank you so much. So many different levels. And it was just so much more than just little house. We'll talk about the book throughout and everyone. I'll put links in the show notes. Everyone has to get this book. Let's talk about your mom for a second. First. I was like I was like, Oh my gosh, your mom is Casper and Gumby. I'm reading this and the first question that pops in my head is is like Ha What did she think of Eddie Murphy doing Gumby?

Alison Arngrim 8:25

She did not like it. You like Eddie Murphy. Okay. And she likes having my wife when she didn't mind parodies of Gumby. When he was 50 I'm Gumby Damn it and she was just it's not gonna be sounds like you're gonna be wouldn't say that. He's gonna be what sort of like goofy happy go lucky. I think he's gonna be wouldn't say that. She liked what was it one moral oral. That was a parody of Davey and Goliath. She thought that was pretty accurate that like, yeah, that's pretty much it.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:52

The other really cool thing was and then I'll tie this into, here's Amy, is your mom was with Vaughn meter on the first family. She played the Kennedy kids.

Alison Arngrim 9:03

And this is for people who are even older than I am. Because like there's very, very young people go oh, right. Casper Gumby, if you're into like retro things under duck, like you get a hit. It's gonna go up a couple years ago, the First Family what Kennedy? What? For children, all you young folks under 50. Under 60, there was a comedy album, it was a huge, huge freaking deal because people hadn't done comedy albums about a seated actual president at the time where people did political humor since he was 1700s. They always but they didn't do comedy albums mocking a president and his entire family having people that was like no, didn't hire who they almost couldn't get distribution. They could not get a record label to sign them when they said they were doing this case. People said you can't do that. And they also said you can't do that because people like JFK, people like John F. Kennedy and Jackie and the kids and even his kids for God's sakes. By today's standards, humorous, quite soft, they're not mean Carolina, John John or anyone in the family, but at the time was considered quite shocking. And Vaughn meter was just insanely popular stand up comedian who had this really great impression. He did have JFK on stage in nightclubs was a huge hit. So these guys got together and they hired Vaughn meter to do to get on an album. And then they went out and hired all these people to be Jackie Kennedy and the whole family and the hiring mother to do the voice of little Caroline Kennedy's tiny little child as a little baby John John, there was John F. Kennedy Jr. Where there was an article years ago People magazine I think, and they had no JFK Jr. You so handsome. It said JFK Jr. The Sexiest Man Alive. Do you remember that when he was the Sexiest Man Alive who's very, and a friend of mine said that's really weird. Because technically that means your mall is the sexiest man alive.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:47

Just not right? So facto, right? Yeah, yeah.

Alison Arngrim 10:50

And so it was very weird. And this album was such a hit. It was by today. We would call it going viral today for it in its day. It went viral. There was no internet. But everyone in America had a copy. People played it over and over again. They played it on the sound system, the loudspeakers in supermarkets and department stores, like a hit album. Like it was music. It was insane. And my mother was on lay mother was part of that

Jeff Dwoskin 11:18

right? It was like a sensation. It sold 6.5 million copies from like it like you said almost not even being able to fit in the Guinness Book of World record right fastest selling album of all time. It won the Grammy Award for Album of the Year in 1963. Beating out Elvis Ray Charles Bob Dylan, or whoever. Whoever was up that year.

Alison Arngrim 11:36

My mother beat out Elvis at the Grammys. Do you?

Jeff Dwoskin 11:41

Yeah. Do you understand what we're saying? Here? Everybody.

Alison Arngrim 11:45

This is heavy. This is my mother beat Elvis at the Grammys. And just

Jeff Dwoskin 11:49

one of my past guests, Sue Kolinsky. Who was she was one of the producers. She made the Osborne's but the first family was her inspiration like that was what set her on the path to become who she became she credits that comedy album,

Alison Arngrim 12:07

I think probably millions do it was so it's such a big deal. And so many people listen to it as children, and it was inescapable. How many people who went on to become actors, comedians, producers, sketch writers went that that that's the thing. Yeah, massive influence. The scary part is there's technically there's a second novel, you probably nerdy enough to know this. There was a second album and had more singing more songs on it. And it was hilarious. But unfortunately the timing was bad because as we know for JFK died horribly was assassinated and the new album came out like I don't know the week before it was a train wreck. So almost no one has a copy of the second now. Everybody has taught me that you call your parents everybody's got a copy that first one if you have a copy of the second one is worth a fortune.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:51

As bad as the JFK assassination was for JFK. It was even worse for von meters career would that's the

Alison Arngrim 12:57

horrible thing. What was it? The Lenny disposal a legend Lenny Bruce story. I don't know anyone who was there with the allegedly Bruce stories, Lenny Bruce had to go on that night. And they begged him to go on. And fans said Please, we need you to help get us through this horrible experience. And so he didn't know what to say, what do you say? What do you say? JFK stamp? What do you say? And that he walked out on stage with a fun meter. And that gets that and it was just like, oh my god, we hadn't thought about that. I forgot. And it was very hard. It was really hard. Vaughn meter took it very hard, obviously had a huge personal connection to JFK. So it was very bad for that.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:28

And just as one last piece of trivia, any JFK impression you hear today is probably a derivative of bond meter doing JFK.

Alison Arngrim 13:36

Because also now it's been so long that anyone who's doing an impression of JFK, unless they're just sitting there watching videos of JFK, they're doing a lot neither everyone was in positive case, actually doing a Vaughn meter impersonation because that's the topic.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:50

Ah, sorry to interrupt. Oh, we have to take a quick break for our sponsors. That was a horrible impression. I apologize not to disguise the fact we had to take a quick break. Do you want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors? When you support the sponsors? You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my conversation with Alison we're going to dive into her comedy album. Here's Amy. So while that second album may be worth a mint on eBay, let's also talk about the other album and inspired 1970 sevens gears, Amy a hell

Alison Arngrim 14:29

Right? Right. 1976 I'm 15 I was doing standup I started doing standard 15 as a comedy store in the improv, but frequent Improv Everywhere I was everywhere. I was 15 I was under 21. So the clubs that didn't serve food like comedies were sunset by Switzer foods you could walk in but I had to like wait in the parking lot till so many seconds before my set and then be escorted in walk directly to the stage do not pass go. I couldn't have a glass of water in my hand that had to be scored out to the park. It was all really weird. Like she can't be in the Middle East gambling the building. And there were a couple other things So we're like 17 1819, the same kind of thing. So it's doing standup. And it was the 70s in Carter was in the White House. And it was the first family and longtime to have a trial in the White House, darling, lovely Amy Carter has grown up to be a lovely person. But Amy was a nerd girl hero, because she had these great big glasses too smart and bookish. She didn't want to go to the family party, she wanted to read a book. She wanted to go read a book and hang out and she had long blonde hair and the glasses that she was adorable and but she was like this little intellectual child who just didn't plays she was an arrow to all third girls. And so the idea that I would somehow do an impression of any Carter struck me and the people were helping me write my act was 15 comedy group called the village idiots. Almost all of whom became famous Peter, Jurassic features, Babylon five, etc. Jan Fisher, who wrote the movie last voice, Mark and Zell. So yeah, all these families. So we're sitting around, they went, Oh, my God, were you looking in the corner? That would be funny. Could you do that? And so we got these glasses, and I did the southern accent. And it's like, unnati, everybody went, Okay, this is stupidly funny. There's something here. And we started coming up more and more bits for Amy. And then they went, Wait a minute. And everybody just wait, your mother did a freaking album or she was Carolyn Kennedy. And you have a bit in your standard, where you're at? What Oh, my God, what if we did a Mallaby Grammy Carter so my father of course and my mother like Yes. And found a record company, I was able to find a record company distribution fast people, the First Family, we did this in the village idiots are all on it. Peter juristic guy named Greg Cena did the impression of Jimmy Carter and several others. And it's really silly. They wrote all these sketches. Some of them are sort of scandalous by today's standards, but it was the 70s and people were like yard yard yard. I actually told people I did a thing on was a Tumblr was it. No actual children were harmed the production this album, and I was 15. And a loss caused by that we did the whole thing we should we should record it. In a day. We went into the studio, we recorded the whole thing in one day. First time we took word on it. And then they mixed it. And that evening, we invited over all our friends and relatives and they sat on the floor and drank beer and ate pizza. And we played the album for them and recorded them and they're the left track. That's like how quick and dirty How fast can we do this? And it's pretty funny. I think it took me I mean, now I listen to go yes, this is terribly dated and silly and ridiculous. And what the hell there's one or two good gigs. But I've had people who found it, because now of course it is it's on Apple Music. It's downloadable, it's on CD, and it's on iTunes and download it and said, Oh no. They thought it was they were like No, no, there's stuff that holds up. It was hilarious. I think we make reference to some politicians and famous people that no one knows who they are now, like, oh, so there's like, yeah, it's completely insane. But I did it. By God. I did. It was not a hit. Sadly, like I said, there was no internet. If there were an internet, we would have been like Instagram we would have promoted it totally would have been hit. But back then basically your venues to promote something like that were like The Mike Douglas Show were Dinah Shore. And it was like way too edgy. independent movie freaky. edgy, quirky to promote there. So yeah, it was just it was such a collector's item. It is it's an underground weird cult thing.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:06

It's definitely a deep cut. And I definitely listened to pretty much the whole thing earlier today. You again Did you listen the whole thing. Almost all day. It's only 30 man. It's only like 30 minutes. Anyone? Okay, it's on Spotify. You gotta go. Right?

Alison Arngrim 18:21

The Nixon impression is great. The next little girl, Amy Carter shows Girl Scout cookies or Richard Nixon. It sounds silly. But yeah, you when you hear my Uncle Billy belt started turning the record over. It was we had records we had to turn them over. And gags during the record over were huge. But how many 15 year olds? I got funding. I mean, I had friends who were musicians and actors who said got a record deal. I've been trying to get a record deal. Wait, you got them, let them You didn't have to go out of pocket. A record company said yes. We'll pay for this. And they actually you got a deal with a real record companies laugh records, say major comedy. It's like the comedy album people they had everybody had LaWanda page, my hero, and they gave me a complete set of the catalogue of all their albums. I got a copy of every album they did. I was 15. They were all filthy. They were almost filthy, obscene standard routines by people like the Wanda page, hysterical. I think I was the first white artist on life records. That was a very strange time in the 70s. So it was real record label a highly successful one. And they said yes, David Rosen, who's still alive and he's got uproar and is still selling on the internet. They said yes. And so I was able to go into his studio. Record it for as one of my friends said for the price of a six pack of beer and you recorded that thing. Get it recorded in a day. Get it done. laughter I can everything in a matter of days, which nobody I knew could do and didn't have to do it myself in a garage with a real record company doing the real is the studio where Marie Osmond recorded paper roses is our trivia the date there. And it was out in the in the stores in albums. I think it was on a track it came out on a track.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:57

Good Old Days a track I read had an article that Maria asthma was part of your routine you made fun of her to eat.

Alison Arngrim 20:05

And then I want to working with her so she was awesome. I love Marie Ozma I did I made fun of her and it kind of true in a way I say good she she did not have big teeth. She just has kind of a small hint and her teeth look larger by comparison, which kind of she's a teeny tiny little person. She's like a little bird. Marie Osmond is a pretty little bird. And she has a little tiny pretty little Cupid's bow mouthful but and these great big honkin teeth. So what they look like out of proportion realism is a genius I was Yeah they did. I'm married why or where she marries whiter comes Mrs. It's actually fascinating story about the woman who married Josie and how she was Actress and was overcomplicated. I was her friend in the movie. I was the naughty friend. I had to do all the things where he couldn't do like if a guy was going to kiss her that I took the bullet for her on that or she had champagne Tootsie new champagne, I would take the champagne because even on a screen she wasn't going to write so I was I was in charge of like sinning for Marie Osmond

Jeff Dwoskin 20:59

eliminate your Marie Osmond's little devil shoulder.

Alison Arngrim 21:02

I was the devil on Marie Osmond shoulder in this movies. lookbook. I did. And we had a wonderful, wonderful time.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:07

I adore her. Did you do comedy throughout Little House

Alison Arngrim 21:10

on the show? So service 15 And I was doing I was going out to clubs. And I mean, and I did theater too. I was exhausted. I talked about the book. I was tired all the time. And he's still looking for a nap. I was so tired. Because when I was like 13, I was in the Garden Theater Festival doing cry of players playing Shakespeare's daughter. So I was up all night at rehearsals and out doing shows on the weekend rehearsals during the weekend getting up in the morning going a little house. Where am I? And then I was doing stand up and I would usually do like mostly we but I would do Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So sometimes if I got a slot, I would take it I would take a Tuesday night or Thursday night it was good time and get up for work in the morning, work all day on a Friday and go home and change and go hit the clubs and do stand up. So only mildly exhausting. Yes, I have no idea how I did it to this day. But I do that

Jeff Dwoskin 22:01

it's a lie I do I do stand up takes a lot out of you is a lot of mental focus on had all that kind of stuff I liked you eventually kind of evolved your voice into the one woman show that you do

Alison Arngrim 22:13

one woman show which is harder and easier. Or one of the advantages is and it's like why like remember how like uncap array that's what he does on cabaret started at the clubs, which is kind of getting rough are getting kind of rough. A lot of the guys are doing these really harsh routines and so women or people of color anybody which is we're just kind of going on oh man, you're gonna like a really tough room man. And or they didn't want to do joke joke joke and do want to hard insult stuff they would like but I wanted to tell it because I'm a wreck on tours. You know, what do you do for that? And so on cabaret stirred happening, am I doing stand up but yeah, the atmosphere was more you know, like toe to toe. And I had all these stories. And it really was you know the comedian and and yeah, he was he was my next door neighbor. I already knew for it from ages ago. And then he bought the house next door to me that should be a movie that went and moved in and bought the house next door to me. Oh my god, someone should have filmed all of that. He is one who one time years ago said your acts great. But you know, the stories you tell in the bar afterwards are 10 times it's funny, you should really think doing that. That's like interesting. And so basically when I do a one on one show I did it was all the stories that I told I was like people that you can tell that story on stage and when and so I took all those stories and people said tell people that and put them all together and just told three stories and it was hysterical and people love people really they love that better than anything I've ever done. And I went okay, and so in a way it was easier to just like write it It writes itself all of these insane things I'm talking about really happened and are completely true. And then when I add to it I go oh I guess I should add that story that was pretty much it. It's all true stories just like I basically writing or like telling how they happen but it did all happen I don't make stuff up and then adding video that was when the SU Hamilton at the gay and lesbian center I met her and she's like a dummy video with this lovely gift. They're good. And so she workshop the whole thing into the show is today I'm all about thanking all these people and they get in the video is all real like when I would talk about knowing Liberace as a kid my parents and you know, taking me to see Liberace or Christy Moore Heller associates work for Liberace. I know people thought I was making it up but now I have the photo of me and Liberace in it and here it is and people were like when it first goes up I mean yes, he laughed because it's adorable because I'm like, ah and it's Liberace like showing you the rings. It's frickin hysterical, but they also go because they really thought on some level I was just completely bullshitting them this Oh yeah. Haha. You're Liberace and then it's like, oh, just didn't know. And so yeah, all my stuff is like, No, she's not making this up. And they have the video of video clips from the horrible horrible Fantasy Island episode, because I said you cannot understand how awful this episode was unless you see it. And I and so I have like all this so it's all real. So in a way it's easier because it's a All real and then do a question and answer segment. Some people say that's really hard that they go, but you're telling real things about yourself, as opposed to that's harder. Or you're also the q&a. It's like, if you don't know if you have just pulled these cards from these people are just and live answering. And I'm like, No, it's great. They're doing all the work. Like so parts of it are much easier, and parts of the course are much more terrifying and at the same time, but it's been highly successful. It's been one of the most successful things I've ever done. People love it. I can imagine

Jeff Dwoskin 25:27

they love it. You know, there's there's a difference. And I think why it's my aunt told you to do it is anyone can say anyone can look at Maria's gonna go, oh, a teeth job, but only you have those stories, right? It's what makes there's it's a uniqueness only for Alison, that means that they're not going to go somewhere else. And I've heard something similar or something like that. It's a unique, unique one on one with you.

Alison Arngrim 25:52

Well, because now I can talk about Marie Osmond. And literally teaching me the dance where he has been taught me to dance, which was just bonkers. Because I get there and you know how agents are? Can she sang sure to dance? Sure, who would lie? And so there was no audition. So yeah, we want her and next thing I know, I'm in Arizona. And I'm like, I mean, there's a dance number. I chose dance number and there's a dance number. We're doing climbing over rocky mountain from Pirates of Penzance. I'm like, What are dead. And there's these girls who are clearly singers and dancers doing climbing over a rocky circle, like I'm dead, and the choreographer leaves and we're all sitting there and relax, because you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. Do you know, come with me, and I'm like, oh my god, I'm dead and Marie dragging me up on stage because, okay, she gets on the floor and grabs my ankles and shoves my feet into position and goes, Okay, stand there. And then she stands next because you put your arm like this, like make a C with your hand and hold your arm up in this curve, and teach it gets me in the position and then she goes, No, watch my feet. And she teaches me the entire routine. Knowing that I do not I'm not a professional dancer. I have no clue. I do no proper training, and teaches me the entire routine right there in like 15 minutes and she goes she's singing to track it's fine. You're not really singing. You just gotta like just move your lips. But here's the part where you have a ha ha ha sola where your track kicks in. And she taught me the whole damn thing. And it's brilliant. You watch it's great. And when we shot it, we're shooting it without sound we're just playing the track. It's all sound putting later so we know we put a kid when we did. So I'm doing this whole elaborately choreographed by Marie Osmond solo piece. And she's in the wings screaming go outside. Yeah, she's like yelling encouragement. So yeah, Maria Ozma. dance coach of the millennium. I mean, seriously,

Jeff Dwoskin 27:39

that is awesome. Donny Osmond taught me how to play poker. True. Not true. But not true. Just trying to I was just trying to compete with you. Why? Why do I feel I need to keep

Alison Arngrim 27:49

no good. Marie Osmond was amazing. She was absolutely hilarious.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:52

We probably just talked about little hearts for a minute.

Alison Arngrim 27:56

Because we love the labs, and we're having to get another revival. You know, it is the 50th anniversary next year, the 50th anniversary.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:02

That's impossible. That's impossible.

Alison Arngrim 28:05

I am so old.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:06

I love the story about when you audition. Well, I guess the third time you audition like when you got the role of Nalli. But in talking to you I don't see it. I don't see that happen. Right. I mean, I know. You're so lovely is what I mean. You're not a batch.

Alison Arngrim 28:21

It's so funny. In fact, even this month Nellie newsletter, under like very tidbits, we're putting things we always put in links Bob always put something in for them. Click on he'll find like long sometimes she'll do everybody's loved about that they were on other fantasy island. And in this one he did he put in in the Hey, check out these links, interviews where people were telling their audition stories. And he's got like, I think to do put in Melissa's audition story who's to do put in auditions, everyone loves auditions to what she put in my audition story. And what's Gilbert's audition story? Because they're hysterical. I did I had read for the part of Lauren, the part of Mary and all that and it's just not a country girl. No. And I went in and I for this other part and I hadn't read the books and didn't know there was an alien. So clueless, clueless no idea. And I'm sitting with my dad and like, how many people are on the show? Why why why am I back here bear about what is even going on? I thought they did the pilot. They're done. And why am I here? And I get these sites, these pages, and I start reading them when I turn to my father 12. And I said, this is weird. This is not normal. He says What do you mean? I said, this girl screws a total bitch. He says, What are you talking about? And I start reading it for him. He starts cracking up. Because it was it was all it's the first one. It's country girls, where she's just completely vile to everyone. And it was brilliant. It was hilarious. She's just saying I don't think the country girls half a penny would you think really? And she's just so awful. And I'm loving this. She's terrible. And so my father said Don't Don't touch it. Don't rehearse it, don't read it again. Don't do anything thing that we look at. And so I go in and add friendly and get my grade Mike Glennon near to the producers, they're all there. And there's Michael and they said read it and I read it and they are on the floor laughing they're dying and I get to the famous my Home speech and assisting shows everybody loves where everyone's doing their essays about their mom or their dad or their pet horse. And I get up and discuss how much everything in my home costs and why you should bow down to me basically, it's a scream. It's so insane. And I say my home is the best home in all of Walnut Grove. But what got me the job was the joke. There's a joke in there and not everybody said a kid would necessarily pick up on that joke, just reading it once. And I did I went, Oh, because she says we have three sets of dishes one for every day, one for Sundays and one for when someone very special and important times to visit which we have never even used yet. She's an idiot. She doesn't realize she's just announced the fancy dishes ain't good news. Because you live in Walnut Grove, Minnesota and the queen is not coming over. No one is coming over or the old since you rent a mercantile. No one knows you have no famous people coming in this is you're never getting used, you moron and she's bragging that they've never been used yet because she doesn't get it and he's made a fool of herself and does not know it. That's a comedy thing. You have to you have to know that does every 11 or 12 year old know that can play a thing that is happening that they don't know they're doing and I went she doesn't know that you have this is this is hysterical. And so I did it. And they cracked up and they said could you do it again please? And I said yes. What do you want me to change? And they said no. But I was again, and I did and I was hired immediately. I enjoyed it so much. I liked to villains. I adored villains. I liked Vincent Price. I'd like to be witches. I like horror movies. I liked villains. I like to Captain you read the book. And I was like, Captain. Yes, I get it get the book is my role model. I totally love that stuff. And so here I was 12 and I was like, oh my god, I'm the villain. I'm the villain. I got a job, the freakin villain. And then it was like, oh, and I'm the comedy really? So yeah, it was like score double score. I was the villain. I was a comic relief and I was sophisticated ish enough at 12. Having grown up in a showbusiness family and grown up in the band working since it was five that I understood what the villain or the heavy wasn't understood what the antagonists was, I understood what the comedy relief was. I knew what that meant. And I knew it was a comedy relief and that I was the villain and I was so happy. So

Jeff Dwoskin 32:13

that's awesome. Just I love that story that I do it again, just because they loved it so much. They just wanted to literally hear it again.

Alison Arngrim 32:21

What's it a fluke? Because I looked really little I like you saw that the episodes for untrue I am 12 But I look like I'm nine and like Nene I looked really small for my age and this little pale thing. And we come in with a little bit. And then I start ripping reading off this like clean pitch material there and they're like what is happening? And so they were kind of like was that? Do we hallucinate that? Did this tiny child did these words just come out of her mouth? Can she do that twice? Or was it an accident? Because it did another small child? Is she 12 is you know what? How old is she? And so it was like they had to see me do it again to make sure wasn't some freak accident and it wasn't so they were very happy.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:58

Sorry to interrupt, but we have to take a quick break. And we're back. I was binging little house not too long ago I

Alison Arngrim 33:06

do one more I'm here the pig farmer was on today

Jeff Dwoskin 33:09

as I can remember was on freebie at one of those where you can just you kind of can watch maybe it was to be or one of those my kids are like why? Why are you watching little house? You're watching this. I'm I got one, you know, I hadn't seen in a long time. Right? I was I was interviewing Karen and you and and so you know I like to read revisit things and I'm like well one it's awesome. I mean it's this is really really good and it holds up which is crazy. And then as a joke I said you see that young girl right there kids she grows up to be on daddy's podcast

Alison Arngrim 33:40

that was it was all preparation for this this is my life ambition. This is totally and

Jeff Dwoskin 33:45

it was interesting like the stories you tell and I know you've told a million times where like you'll walk when you were younger and you'd walk around and people would call you a bitch the other kids would call you a bitch and throw thinks I mean I must have been horrible I in kind of thinking about and reading it and putting some of the pieces together you forget it back then though 40 million people were watching an episode. It's not like today where maybe 2 million spread all over the United States. This was almost everyone

Alison Arngrim 34:12

I thought in the future I thought well more people will watch things because there's more ways to watch it but it's so weird it's fragmented now because there's a million channels and then a million things with the internet and you can watch things on your phone and so it's different now big ratings are a few million back then it was to have ABC NBC CBS and then the like PBS educational channel and then you had like Casio p if you wanted to watch hobo Kelly show cartoons I mean it's like news it was nothing there was only so many channels and there are only so many shows like now like trying to like for SAG Awards the Emmys trying to watch all the shows. So like are you kidding me? Did you do with back before he said can you watch an episode of all of the shows are up for an Emmy? Yes, because there's like 12 Like there's under so it was a whole other world. So when people turn on the TV they were Watching you or football or you know, Rhoda, there was only so many things that could physically be watching. So that was it. So you had millions and millions. It was like the moon landing, people would watch our show. And it was so strange. And now though, in a way, I think now now like 2023, all the robot, you know, the pandemic, the fact that people realize that we had an episode called quarantine, and nips who called plague. And we had all these survival tools, people started watching little outs to like, survive. And it was so nuts. I think they're split up. And they're not all watching at the same time, and some are on freebie, and some are on ETD. And some are on Amazon and some are on their phones. But it's like more people now. They're just kind of blasted out all over the universe instead of all at one time.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:43

When you talk about meeting Melissa Gilbert. And here's this little nine year old, who's basically running the show.

Alison Arngrim 35:49

Yeah, it was really weird. It was because she was and she knew it. I mean, that's the pressure that was put on child actors. I mean, that's a whole other book about oh my god. It's like dog fights, like putting your children in a dog fight putting your kid to show business. And the pressure that is put on child actors is way oversized. And for a kid who's the star of the show. Hello, I was playing Laura Ingalls Wilder. So we had Michael Landon, who's established or was a star, but then you add Well, she's playing Laura Ingalls. So it's basically it's him and her. She's caring. She's Mary. She's a narrator, for Christ's sakes. She's not. And it's all about her. And it's so crazy. And she's she's playing the person who wrote that's kind of a lot of pressure. It's like if she gets sick because she's out for a few days. Yeah, maybe you got one episode where Paul goes off to TNT the mines to you know, make extra money lining things. Other than that, you know, if she's not in the episode, you're dead. You got maybe two episodes a year. She's not like, featured in continuously. So everyone's out of work. Everyone is sort of a jaw, but she's hit by a bus. Everybody's unemployed. So she's nine. And she's responsible for the employment of hundreds of people. Yeah, and she's caring. If her performance doesn't work. Half the scenes that big star Michael Landon is in are with her, so she can't cut it. If she suddenly like wakes up and can act. He's debt. What does he do it? She's nine. So yeah, she's getting up some ungodly hour in the morning and coming in for makeup and hair and having to memorize the entire day. So she knew what was going on. She was kind of the President of sag when she was nine. I literally come in and she is so small. As I said she looked like she could fit in my purse, and she could chew her way out if she had two teeth. Still though. We both had braces. We both had horrible days, she had the chin or the back teeth. I had the big pointy one the big incisors, big fangs that wouldn't come down those corner teeth, the canines there, they would not come down. If it were too crowded. The orthodontist had to pull four teeth and shove everything back with braces at that length, big pointy corner teeth to come down. And they were so bad that when the dentist took mold of my teeth I still haven't seen on my dresser. And when people come to my house, if they see the mold of my teeth taken before I had braces, they say is that your dog? Or is that a prop from a horror movie? That is how bad my teeth were. It were all so we were about the mess. But she had the big big eatin Apple through a picket fence. But she was so cute. And then in this little tiny like helium voice she starts going on about like, Okay, here's what's going on here. So it's intended and then don't talk to someone submitted and she's awful. She's awful. She hates me and she didn't know don't hang around for that. So they're called them this is very picky with Brockman. Now they're the ones who are like, who are you? Why and what is the child? So yeah, she totally freaked me out. But she's the one where like, God like a year in some stage Won't we stage with some stage mother? There were a lot of kids on the show. She's gonna get me fired and advance her kids careers, six sick, twisted things. So she started the rumor that I was rude or standoffish or Nellie? Oleson ish six, you're like, what that makes it not. It was spreading. And so it was Melissa, who called a meeting of all the little girls got a lot of dressing room. And then after we were all having a lovely time said okay, who started that? Here's the room and they were like, it wasn't me. It wasn't me. I are different salads. Oh, no. She told me Don't look at me. And finally they copped to it said, okay, you know who it is. It's so and so's mom. It's not even her. It's not even her mom. It's not her fault. It's totally her mom. And they knew they knew. And that's when Alyssa said, Okay, stage mothers are going to stage whether they're going to do these things. We have to stick together. It has to be the kids against the adults, we have to stick together somehow. Because Absolutely. They're going to try to divide and conquer us because they're so competitive. So come to me first. If you hear something, she would have been 1011 tops when she did that.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:31

Yeah, I think in the book, he's maybe even nine. I mean, I because that's what I couldn't get. Like, wow, a nine year old was this far ahead. She knew

Alison Arngrim 39:39

exactly what's going on. I remember she was still really, really young, you know, and they'll play cards and they started doing stuff more in the open. But in the first couple years they tried to be quiet about you know, incessant gambling. I mean, they had the ping pong games. We knew they gambled on that we knew they bet on the football games, but they had a continuous poker game going in this room in the top of the soundstage, like a room you didn't even know this was there but apparently soundstage all the way up near the roof of the soundstage. Way up in the catwalks. There was a room I didn't know that room up there, there was a room and they didn't really need it for anything, but they used it for playing poker. And they had a whole target with money, like large amounts of money going up there. She knew about it. I didn't know about it. She's like, come with me. It starts climbing a ladder. I'm like, we can't put the catwalks I know for fact, we're not allowed on the catwalk just again. Shut up. That'd be a sissy. Come with me. The ladder and it's like 5060 feet, as it were the catwalk and she's running around the catwalk 60s, which is doing dangerous stuff just like rats up here. Do we know what we're doing? And then she goes, there's a room and I'd like to say that door What is up here, she bangs on the door and they opened the door and all these guys playing cards were horrified that we found them. And I'm like what she knew she knew where they played cards and it was like it was a ray we like rated their card game.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:53

That is so funny. The other funny thing when I was reading this part of the book, when Melissa comes and gives you the kind of the lay of the land, you joined on episode three, right? I mean, she had done the pilot, which is kind of a standalone movie and the two episodes is that like you joined season four and like she had been there for years and like was like the show right now.

Alison Arngrim 41:11

She's done the pilot allocation that took like a long time they shot that like a movie she's did the pilot and then I guess they shot they shot harvest with brand of friends or they showed up after but like arrangement. Yeah, so it had been a couple of weeks a week a week she done the pilot and then like like they were like a week and I showed up and she knows everything she knows everything she does every single person who works there who they are their whole lifestyle. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:32

Oh Melissa Sue Anderson thing threw me I didn't expect that. She did not like you guys Melissa didn't like her I just

Alison Arngrim 41:40

weird. And again it's It's mom's at stage one stage. I believe that her mother was very overprotective. I to this day, I believe that her mom told her that like Melissa Gilbert and I were juvenile delinquents. Which is kind of true. So it's not wrong. I don't know. Now. I mean, I to this day, I used to Okay, God, we're all in our frickin 60s. Now. It's like her, you know, I'm hoping at this point in the game, you know, we can all just go for cocktails. So like a god we are horrid or a little teenage girls, but that's the thing. You put a bunch of tween girls in a soundstage lock door leave them in there for a few years like that. Things are going to happen so get the competition between these little girls that this very pretty little girl compare from a brick commercial. She was like super. She was like the head cheerleader. She was like too perfect. And there she is. And there's this other movie about what we should have all been friends but instead it was always like like, no, no, you're on my turf, bitch and it's like why what? What does go in your children stop that what but it was very bizarre. It was so weird. But that's what happened to you put your kids in show business. It's weird. Being on a set is weird. There's all kinds of strange things going on. And I had to tell that story because to be me like to just know because people are aware of like okay, the dynamics between actors grown ups on sets. They like each other don't like each other. There's weird chemistry. There's personality clashes, egos. People go okay. Yeah, expect that. They don't realize it is happening among the children. It is happening. Television shows exactly the same way. It's happening among adults. It's completely bonkers.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:13

Oh, you know, the other thing you mentioned, gambling. But you also said The show runs on beer in there. Everyone was drinking all the time. And smoking

Alison Arngrim 43:21

bleh and guards was Vegas. It was the 70s I guess like the 70s. We wouldn't even had the food out that we had we used to have. Okay, if you go to like the craft services, as they call it, the food table on coffee break on the set. Now what you get like gluten free get health food, your fruit, like fruit. You have healthy food, you have gluten free, you have vegetarian vegan alternatives. We had doughnuts and bear claws. It was several boxes of great big sugary and cream filled donuts and coffee that would take the paint off your car. And there were sugar too. Oh, there was no one noon Sweet and Low. There was milk. And there were sugar see and eat sugar cubes and milk and coffee. And donut was it. That's what you got for breakfast. The here children as I got it was insane. So it was a very different world. And people all drank and smoked and gambled. And these guys, they hung out. And so that haze of cigarette smoke, the air was just below and then the drinking and the crew explained that they drink beer all day. And they explained to me that two cases was standard for a day. But there are a lot of guys take to get and sometimes Oh yesterday was a three case day two and a half case data. We're down to one case and if we run out of beer to shoot comes to a grinding halt and that someone had been dispatched store get more fear. And that didn't count at the end of the day when they say okay, we're wrapped and they put a board up on sawhorses and the bar would open they bring out the hard liquor and then there'll be the wrap party where we don't go to the racetrack and they hit the bar and drink like beans. And this was all absolutely considered neatly normal. Nobody thought this was weird. This would be weird now 74 through 79 People are like what you know having to pick up the cigarette butts in Simi Valley At least the stole the cigarette butt show just wouldn't be the shot.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:03

I did want just mentioned because I know everyone talks about the bunny episode and famous wheelchair scene of you being pushed down but I rewatched this episode just the other day, mentally You're horrible. It never gets old. Nellie is a horrible person. Thank you. But I wanted to point out halfpipe snaps and really go psychotic. I mean, if you really think about it, she sees you dancing or walking around in your room

Alison Arngrim 45:28

dancing with my doll like a serial killer. Find the curtains Yes,

Jeff Dwoskin 45:32

the episode real quick is Nellie gets thrown from her horse fakes being like paralyzed and then makes Melissa Gilbert half pipe do everything for her. And then half pint sees her dancing and playing around and walking.

Alison Arngrim 45:46

It is overcome with rage and rage snare snare I said like we're going outside you need some air and pushes me off the highest yield while the growth next to the mill

Jeff Dwoskin 45:57

into the bond. I was I finds a little psychotic.

Alison Arngrim 46:00

The best part when she pushes me down as I'm screaming down the hill as she says you're such a good friend mele. That's the best part. It's it's really funny.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:09

And when

Alison Arngrim 46:10

Mrs. Olson shows up just in time to witness me hit the water and then stand up and screams Oh, it's a miracle. And by David falls off her horse,

Jeff Dwoskin 46:20

praise the Lord.

Alison Arngrim 46:21

Of course she does. It's the best episode of anything anywhere. There's a piece it I just saw on Facebook the other day, it's on a loop somewhere where they play it and reverse it and then play it again. And it's just like on a loop continuously. Yes. And people will sit and watch that for hours.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:36

It is joy. It is really good. Wow, admittedly, we could probably talk for another hour about Yes. And not duplicate anything. I know you have to go

Alison Arngrim 46:46

I promise people go live on my Facebook that what am I doing? Um, yeah. So I have who's going to do the cooking on YouTube again. I had more cooking videos. I have my Show podcast Elsinore group show. Emily also lights up the 80s My new new French crazy onstage review where we do like 80s trivia, games and music and Prairie and everything. There's the Nelly doll is out the Queen's treasures company. They put up the Nelly doll this thing that we doled out it's gorgeous, gorgeous.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:12

I have to preorder Well, thank you so much. I really really appreciate it. Thank you. All right, everyone. How awesome is Alison Arngrim. I know so incredibly hilarious. Far this thing from a Prairie Bitch. There could be so hilarious. So funny. Check out our book, Confessions of a Prairie Bitch How I Survived Nelly Olson and learn to love being hated. Also check out her podcast, the Allison Arden grown podcast and look for her one person show and your town so much goodness. Oh, and I'll put a link to his AMI on Spotify in the show notes as well. You gotta check that out so much else in the checkout. Oh, and you can binge watch a little house in the prairie. You got a busy month ahead of you. I'll let you get going. Can't believe the interviews over that means the episodes over, they fly, they fly. So quick, huge, special thanks to my guest, Allison Arne Grom. And of course, a huge special thanks to all of you for coming back week after week means the world to me. And I'll see you next time.

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