#223 UnCabaret’s Godmother of Alternative Comedy: A Conversation with Beth Lapides

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:29

All right, Judy, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 223 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. are changing things up this week. Classic conversations is now classic on conversations. I don't even know that makes sense. Maybe it'll make sense if I say we're talking about Lapides, a claim creator of Uncabaret, the show that launched the alt comedy revolution. So here we are on classic on conversations presents Beth Lapides, I claim greater Uncabaret does that I don't know if that works. I try. I try. Anyway, we're talking to Beth about how she created this amazing, life changing treasure and that is coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds, just a reminder to check out my interview with William Hung from American Idol here the highs and lows of sudden fame. I think you're gonna really like that interview. And I think you're gonna love my conversation with Beth Lapides, you loved her and Sex and the City. We're gonna talk all about what inspired her to create Uncabaret. She's the author of the amazing audio book, so you need to decide without further ado UnCabarat. Beth Lapides. Enjoy. All right, everyone, I'm excited to introduce my next guest, writer, producer, comedian, Coach muse, creator of the groundbreaking on a cabaret author of the audiobook so you need to decide hailed by the Los Angeles Times as the godmother of alternate comedy The mysteries of and cabaret. She likes her coffee like she likes her men in a cup, ladies and gentlemen.

Beth Lapides 2:26

Oh my God. Hi, Jess. Hi. I love an intro that makes somebody laugh. That's good.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:32

I heard you say your videos like that is funny. And so that you

Beth Lapides 2:37

I was like, how far back did you go? That's like, that's from Brown. Zero, but okay. I love it.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:43

I dig around. I dig around. You're dead. We'll jump around. There's a lot to talk about so much. Yeah. many amazing things going on in your life. As I was digging in to your audio book, which will go in but one thing real quick. You're talking about being an art counselor at an Amish camp? Yeah, a Quaker camp camp. All right. Yeah, we have that in common. I was an arts and crafts guy at my camp Jewish camp, but I was the arts and crafts guy. Did you love it? I loved it. I love it. Yeah, it was I did it for I think a couple of summers. I did it for like two or three summers. And I invented a game and what Yeah, yeah, it was one day, you know, we're creative types. Right? So you don't like being called out? Like you're not being creative. So my supervisor was like, Jeff, you're just not really bringing, like, Oh, man. So that broke my heart. So there was this thing called Box hockey. Did you ever you know, where you just kind of basically just make a, you know, I'm talking about box X. I do not Oh, it's basically like you like it's like a box. And like, and then you just put like little blockers in there. And then it has a goal on each side. So it's like hockey, and you kind of with your finger push a penny throw. Okay, so I decided I'm going to replace that staple at camp and I created something called dewasa. Baseball. I named it after myself. And I created a baseball game, which was legendary for two summers. And it was that

Beth Lapides 4:01

that was your first claim to fame. I know. That's awesome. Well, I was the arts counselor at a Quaker camp, and I was very fish out of water. And it was great. I didn't, I didn't hide. It was very woodsy. I would say I would say but I did love the I did love the part of it. That was like sitting in the circle. I mean, the Quakers have that great thing. I talked about this in the book of sitting in, you know, meeting and it's a circle and you speak when you are moved to speak. And because it was a girls camp, these girls were so young, and they were like, I never thought I would be brave enough to speak and now I'm speaking and then that would be the whole thing. It was so meta. You know, it was like, wow, so it was beautiful. I loved it.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:43

That's awesome. What drove you to write the book? I guess you wrote the book, right? It's an audio book.

Beth Lapides 4:49

I didn't write it. Oh, yeah. There was so much writing that went into it. And there was first of all, you know, an idea of how what kinds of stories I wanted to tell Till then there was a long period of conversations. And I knew that we're going to be, well, I knew there was going to be conversations about these six areas of decision making the ones that made it to the book, Love and work and spirituality, moving and family. And I also thought maybe friendship, but people did not want to talk about friendship at all, it was really interesting. It was so private to people still, for the decision to end a friendship or if a friendship had ended or changes in friendship. It's interesting how private that was more than like love, or spirituality. Anyway, I knew I was going to have these conversations at a certain point. The publishers are like, maybe stopping with the interviews and handing in some writing. I wish I could have done these interviews for six years. I mean, I love these conversations so much. So there was, you know, the idea for me to do an original audio book, there were some interest. And then I was sort of casting about for the idea. It was before the election. And so you know, that word decision went into, you know, how in every election, the word decision is so big, and I just thought, oh, decisions, that decision is a big word. And after so many years of doing Uncabaret, I do kind of have an idea of what thoughts memes, buckets have a lot of stories around them. And a new decision make. I mean, every good story has decisions in it. So I knew that there would be good interviews. And I already knew from working with people like Oh, Dana has the story. And Julia has that story. And so I knew going in at least there'd be something. I didn't expect my own story to focus so narrowly Uncabaret, but when I handed it in my first draft, my editor was like, you have so much it's so enormous. Why don't we narrow it down? And so that's how that happened.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:45

I mean, it's a fascinating, but it's a fascinating listen. Yeah, who am I when variety called it a potentially life changing treasure? Wow, that did make my day that I could have not vulture best comedy book of 2022. Everyone loves you. Are these all your friends that you talk to? Because you have a lot? It's a it's like a who's who all the names Margaret show, you know, you mentioned Bob Odenkirk Oh, yeah. Josh Gondolin. I know Josh Gondolin.

Beth Lapides 7:12

Josh, Josh. I didn't Josh. I only knew like a little bit from Twitter beforehand. I didn't, everybody I didn't know everybody, Frank Scott. Scott Frank, the name that can go both ways. I didn't know who wrote the Queen's gambit. I did not know him. I knew most of the people. Yeah. Julia Sweeney, Isaac, Ms. Rahi, Sandra Bernhard?

Jeff Dwoskin 7:32

No, I was gonna I was gonna ask her what was the decision to not have a print version?

Beth Lapides 7:38

Well, it was conceived as an audio project. And first and foremost, I was interested in putting these conversations out out loud. The sound of people's voices is so intriguing to me. And I think this new format, I've always been somebody interested in new media, new formats, and audiobooks seemed fresh territory. So I was most interested in doing it in that I'm very interested in print. But this particular book, there was one deal that was like print plus audio, but then it wasn't a guaranteed print. And maybe it was, I don't know, eventually, I hope there will be a print version, but we're trying to figure out what's the added element in print besides just written written, you know, what kind of pictures or I'm waiting for enough people to listen to it. Jeff, the print version is exciting lands. You know, we've been waiting for this the print version. I think also because it was COVID. There was a lot of it was just a very confused time as to how things were playing out. So we can just kept it simple.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:40

Any great stories you can share that maybe did not make the audiobook? No, no.

You'd like to highlight.

Beth Lapides 8:55

I love I mean, we've mentioned Bob Odenkirk. I do really love his story about leaving set to the decision to leave Saturday Night Live and what he was the he was leaving it for nothing unknown, absolutely unknown. And what went into that and the courage of that decision, I think is really beautiful story. And just so well told. I love Jen Kirkman story about wanting to be a dancer and the decision how that fell away. In a sense, her auditioning and the fact that she hadn't decided not to practice every day since she was eight.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:31

I love Bob Sorry. It's amazing to me, like the talent that was at Sony live. I didn't realize he was even at center. I live as I live that we don't even know.

Beth Lapides 9:39

Right. And I love how he talks about it's so there's so much humility in it too about, you know, he wanted to be a performer. He was there but he was writing that's why you don't know nobody knows the writers, right? He wanted to perform in his heart. He was like I want to perform but he also in his heart felt not ready to perform on Saturday Night Live and how was he going to get to the place of being ready to perform at Saturday night life if he stayed at Saturday Night Live was essentially the story he told. So he made the decision to come to Los Angeles without knowing what did that mean, just knowing that he was leaving this job that was secure. I mean, as secure as showbusiness jobs go, and how hard that is to give up any kind of security. And I think that's a decision everyone faces. Now, more than ever, no matter if you're in show business or not, you know, the decision to stay at a place that you know, isn't quite right or to leave, I have had a lot of people telling me the book was truly helpful for them that it was entertaining, but actually, to help them make the decisions that they need to make.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:40

That's why you did it.

Beth Lapides 10:41

That's why I did it. You know, it's very tricky to walk that line, I will say between something that's helpful, and something that's entertaining and funny. And that was when one of the things that intrigued me about this project, also for naming stories that Dana Gould story about the billboard that's, that's crazy story. I don't know if you got to that. And the love chapter is a

Jeff Dwoskin 11:01

lot. There's a lot. I think, why it resonates, it's sort of like, you know, in business, it's a use cases help drive the adoption or the understanding of something. So you tee up each chapter, each section, and then it goes into a series of conversations. And then people can relate to that. And there's enough of them that they can probably glob on or connect with any particular piece of any particular story. And yes,

Beth Lapides 11:28

and because it's not all about, like the right decision, there's definitely wrong decisions in there. I think people have told me it has given them courage, because here are people who were so are so successful and have been successful, despite maybe bad or wrong decisions. I also think, you know, I tried to get into a little bit without being overly scientific, but from my own perky thought and feelings, that decisions, wire decisions, what they are now and I did a little bit of thinking and research. And you know, the word decide comes from a word that means to cut off. And there is a violence to decision making that makes it difficult, I think I think we shy away from decision sometimes because to make a decision is essentially to cut things off. And there is a little bit of violence to that. And that decision making. I mean, the word also didn't really come into play until the 1800s. And that was as like 1830s. And isn't isn't what's that's a thing. And then I looked it up because my history is so bad. I was like, oh, right, all the revolutions. So a sort of a modern idea, this idea that we get to make decisions is not something that humanity has always had. I love that. And I love that it's maybe we're not that great at it, because it isn't part of the human history for ever and ever and ever. And there was also a thing where I started to think about blink. And that's such an idea that we've all taken into ourselves this idea of link in the immediate decision making, I thought there might be a compendium volume that should exist called stare all the time that you looked at the things all those years before you made that instant decision that was so perfect. Anyway, those are some things that I sort of gathered as I went and what I was looking for when I talked to people, instant decisions long thought about decisions.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:20

I think there's something about hearing famous people tell stories of struggle as well like because I Oh, wait man Better Call Saul had isn't just a super famous guy always right. He had things in his past that led him to where to become Saul Goodman and all those other.

Beth Lapides 13:36

And the fear. I mean, Bob talks about the fear of not knowing I mean, in retrospect, when something has worked, you're like, Oh, well, obviously, but not obviously, when it's about to happen. And there you are, you're on every billboard and you don't know maybe people are not gonna like it. Maybe you're gonna be you know, shamed every everywhere you walk in Los Angeles, which is nowhere because you're in a car. So there you go.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:05

It's an amazing audiobook, though you need to decide everyone should got it. Well, links in the show notes. It's all amazing. Thank you. Yes. And that's just one piece of Beth Lapides that you can bring into your life. There's so much more. Sorry to interrupt, have to take a quick break. Well, I thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my spectacular conversation with Beth Lapides, we're about to talk about her guest starring role on Sex in the City. And we're back. Well, let's I want to talk about sex in the city. Oh,

Beth Lapides 14:45

I love to talk about sex in the city with so much fun. Great hair. Thank you. Yeah. Oh my gosh. First of all, I remember. You know, you remember such funny things. So I do. The hairdresser, the hair and makeup guy. His hands were the size of My head he had the biggest most beautiful like, just messed up my hair with these giant fingers. Oh, he was great. Yeah, the hair anyway the hair. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:12

Did you get to actually interact with anyone because I know your whole role was just being part of that performance are sitting in movie city,

Beth Lapides 15:20

you know only eye contact in the scenes. I mean I interacted off camera there was a there was a little funny story that happened with Baryshnikov so it was his first it was his first episode. So he was there, you know, making his way through his first episode. So Mike Patrick King is a friend when after he cast him before I did the episode, we were having lunch and he said, You have to believe that it is my version of coffee and I said, Oh my god, Michael, I had this dream about personal coffee. We were in a parking garage, which is you know, supposed to be so rapey and instead of it being rapey, there is Baryshnikov and we are dancing and it was the most I mean, I'm dancing with Baryshnikov in this parking garage is of greatest dream. So we're on set and Michael introduces me to him and tell him the dream. I said no. I mean, no. I used to tell him the dream. Now he's, you know, the boss. And I'm like, Alright, so I tell him the dream. And as slowly as I'm telling him the dream, personal golf is like stepping gradually away from me away until he literally trips over his own feet. And I'm like, I've made the greatest dancer in the world trip over his own feet. I dream so okay, the week goes on. He's a lovely, and he actually goes and stands in the room when I'm doing the scenes and supposed to be looking at him. And he's doing it with me. So sweet, so generous. We have lunch together. I'm friends with the cast and Michael through Uncabaret. So that's all nice. And it's all very chummy. So the end of the week, you know, saying goodbye. And you know, and then I say, you know, I'm so sorry for you know, telling you that dream at the beginning. And then he starts backing away all over again. It was so great, and actually wrote it as a story by time there in the New York Times, we bought it for the end page of the magazine. And the night before we're supposed to run. They're like, we can't run one more thing about sex in the city. We're just so that's it, you know, because it was like the last season and it was literally every story in every section of you know, the entire paper. Anyway, that was my set, funny little button. One thing is, you know, the wardrobe is so incredible. And people ask, you know, did you get to keep your wardrobe? I was like, did you first of all, did you see the episode? And did you see what I was wearing? I mean, no, I first of all, and also saying Oh, you don't get to keep your wardrobe. I did get to go into where the wardrobe is kept. And it is this Cheyenne warehouse. It is such a fantasy world for someone who loves clothes of every outfit that every character wore all catalogued and hanging. And it was it really is one of the most spectacular in my lifetime like top 10 places I've been is the Sex in the City wardrobe warehouse.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:07

It sounds like heaven. It really well. Yeah, maybe not for me. But

Beth Lapides 18:11

yeah, it was heaven. It's also torture because there's all these beautiful clothes you have none go home now. But it's just like it's such a spectacular singular place. Little like azmol that for close

Jeff Dwoskin 18:23

Sex and the City was a big deal in our house. At one point my wife was obsessed with it. One of the first times we went to New York together We only ate at places that they have. And one of the places we actually sat in the same exact location as Jessica Park Jessica Parker asked

Beth Lapides 18:41

JP SJP Come on. Let's get real. Oh, really? That's missing. Here's a little known tidbit for Sex in the City pants. So when you were in the when you were sitting in the booth that they sat at, at the restaurant where they always met when you looked out the window, what you saw was a bridal shop with four mannequins in bridal dresses outside the window. That was never really seen in the show. But that was on set. Nice. That's all inside scoop.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:10

That is good. I like that. It'll be breaking news. Bad revealed on a man,

Beth Lapides 19:22

that's so funny. Yeah, that was fun. It

Jeff Dwoskin 19:24

is cool. Thank you. You are now the third person I've interviewed or worked with that has been on that show. So

Beth Lapides 19:30

I don't need to speak to anymore. I want this to be the end of it. I want to be the final. The final piece of that puzzle.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:37

Trivial Pursuit who is the final person Jeff spoke? I think when am I met Matthew Broderick, oh, friend of the family was their nurse when? When SJP gave birth? Oh yeah. The Nanny the nanny. And so we got we went backstage we went in we were in New York. My dad and stepmom happened to be They're and they were already going. So we went and saw the play. We met him after. Got to go backstage and meet him. Sarah Jessica Parker was not there. That was my wife was quite disappointed with Matthew Broderick is a good. Oh,

Beth Lapides 20:11

yeah. And I mean, backstage, is there any better place in the world besides the Sex in the City wardrobe.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:17

Alright, so that's cool. And then you are unwilling grace. But I think just for a second, you say,

Beth Lapides 20:20

literally, I mean, you can only see my, literally like, I got my shoulder, it was what it came down to. I was the first guest star. And I was so early in the series, you may not remember this, there was a fifth main character who was wills, perpetual client, he was a southern guy, I don't remember his the character's name. But it was like, He's Will's client. And they were already having trouble fitting enough story, you know, fitting storylines for all four of them, plus this other guy. And now here's a guest star, and guess who's gonna, you know, say goodbye. But I was the host of the club that Jack did just jack in a moment, it was it was super fun to do. And it's a super it was fun to be around. It was great to watch that piece of television history really come into being it was really solidifying it was becoming what it was. And it was exciting to be around and experienced the, you know, the level of work that was getting done. So I'm grateful for that experience. And I wish that I was in more scenes. With that, so wonderful to do that.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:30

Spend the next, I don't know, 1520 minutes talking about your role as a Cheshire Cat.

Beth Lapides 21:35

Let's dig down into that. Jeff, let's really dig down, you really did do your work. I have to say, I think I did put that into something because I remembered it. And I was like, that's so perfect. I mean, that really is like if I could be typecast as something. It was literally the very first thing I was ever cast as was the Cheshire Cat. And I was like, Where do I go from here? It's just too perfect.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:59

It's the ultimate role. When I was in I think elementary school I was Vinnie Valentine in this school production of something and nothing. And I the only thing I remember from it is that I must have had the entire script memorized. Because my I remember my mom telling me I'd be standing there. And while everyone else was doing their lines, my mouth was moving. Like, it just popped in my head when that's funny.

Beth Lapides 22:20

That is kind of funny. But you know, what's funny about the Cheshire Cat, if I can just say is I mean, there is the thing about the smile. And one thing I'm known for is my laugh. I just people are like, oh your life. And my laugh was I think some part of what made Uncabaret work because I was trying to develop this different kind of show and this different kind of comedy. Partly it was because it was what I wanted to see, it was what I wanted to do. I also wanted to see it, it was like I didn't want to be the only one trying to do this, cause it was different. And one of the things that was different about it was I really didn't want it to fall into comedy club rhythm. And I really wanted people to have the freedom to tell longer stories, which sometimes met meant a setup that took a minute or so. And I wanted it to be very natural, intimate, conversational. And that was another thing about so you need to decide I really felt like it was an extension of that work the intimate, conversational funny things. There's a mic at the back of the room, you know, we're announcements are made. And it's we didn't set it up. There's just this, you know, a mic at the back of a club room. And I just started laughing into it. And then also I was starting to ask people questions, because I what was happening is you needed to do new material all the time, because we had a lot of the same audience coming back and bringing their friends. And it was a regular Sunday night thing. So everybody was doing new material and telling the story of their lives as it went. And I just very naturally started to ask questions to help people. I mean, you know, as a host, sometimes you lay back and sometimes you push forward. And I would see sometimes places where there was an unanswered question that the audience would have. And if there's two things that will keep an audience from laughing, it's unanswered questions, and sort of fear of worry about a performer. So I would ask the questions that were announced that sort of being behind and laughing and being sort of up in the booth and laughing and that's a very Cheshire Cat kind of vibe. So when I remembered that I had been the Cheshire Cat, it amused me. It was all men today, everything is unfolding in divine in perfect order.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:35

So before we go backwards in time and talk about how Uncabaret came to be so yes, we're already talking about it. So sure, the mic that you have in the back where you do the comedian's appreciated expected does it throw them off when you because I imagine that because it's all unique and original material, that they may then extend to other clubs and grow that material elsewhere. Does it help kind of hone it?

Beth Lapides 25:00

I would say there was a varied appreciation of my back, Mike work. Some, some performers, were like asking, I don't have anything like asked me everything like, I don't know, I don't even know what I'm doing. Like you use the back, Mike, I need you. And some performers were never that way. But I did it anyway. And they were be grudging about it. And some performers. You know, I try, of course, to make everybody happy. I'm a people pleaser, I'm a woman in America, sometimes I, I wanted the show to be good, I wanted performers to be happy, I tried to do it mostly with performers who enjoyed it. But sometimes, I felt like I needed to save someone, there were times when people would come in and do too much of an act. And I could feel the audience pull away, because that's not what this room was about. People didn't come there to hear your act, people came here to hear something a little raw, a little fresh, little real. So I would use it. And there were times when I would be trying to save someone when I could tell they were really didn't want me to, and I would, you know, I would back away. And that would just be the last time they were there. You know, it was just like, well, this room is not a good fit. This is what it is. But there were a lot of people who, when it started, there were various feelings about it within the comedy community that I'm aware of. And I'm sure there were some that I wasn't aware of, you know, some people were very excited about it, and very enthusiastic and super supportive. And, you know, wanted to try it in their own shows and do something different. And, you know, there was also a strain of like, how come? This is the new thing? Who told her, you know, why did she Why does she get to say? I mean, I did hear it put that way? Like why does she get to say it's interesting,

Jeff Dwoskin 26:44

because it's like, It's your show, and you think that eventually if you know that's an element of the show, that you would just prepare yourself for right?

Beth Lapides 26:54

But I think what more when that idea was Why does she get to say even how comedy is going to be like, who gave her gave her the talking stick?

Jeff Dwoskin 27:02

Well, let's talk about that. Because it's a it's a great story, you from what I gather, you gave yourself the talking stick, you saw a need, and you created an opportunity. So let's talk about that. Yeah,

Beth Lapides 27:16

you know, I started as a performance artist in New York. And as I saw that I wanted that work to be funnier, I did understand that the only way to get really funny, or if you're a little funny, great. But if you wanted to really learn that, you were going to have to be in front of a lot of audiences. That was the only way to do it. So I started working in comedy clubs, and I was somewhat unsatisfied in New York with it. But when I got to Los Angeles, I was extremely uncomfortable. And I wanted it to be different. So that was all I knew, like, Why? Why can't it be different, and there's got to be a better way, there's got to be a better way. That was the sort of ticker tape in my mind, but I couldn't really understand what it was or how that would be. And then there was one night I was at the Comedy Store following Andrew Dice Clay, and I just, I was just watching him kill. I mean, he was just killing. And I was just hating him. And I was hating the audience for laughing at him. And I was hating myself for hating all of them. And I don't do well with hate. And I was just like a little bundle of rage and I'm sure I don't have a memory of it, but I'm sure it didn't I got on stage and didn't do well. I can only be just then it really like solidify like there has to be a different way. But I still have no answer. Now in you know, my maturity. I would say love the question when I don't have an answer to something. But when I was younger, I was very impatient for answers. So I'm sure it was burning me up. And I was then invited to do a show at a place called the Women's building. I still going back and forth between theatres and art spaces and comedy clubs and working in all of them trying to aggressively trying to make it happen and figure it out and you know, do what you have to do, like get out there in every way you can. And at the Women's building. I was doing a show not a stand up set a show called Globo mania, and in the meet and greet afterwards. I was it wasn't quite as funny as you thought it was. I mean, it was a show. So I knew what it was. I mean, I knew how funny it was. And they were like, I was like when was the last time you laughed, and they were like, Oh, we don't laugh. We're women. And we're artists and we're lesbians. And if we go to a comedy club, they just make fun of us. And I said I'll make you a show. It'll be on homophobic and xenophobic and misogynist will be Uncabaret, and that it was a literally a download from there. And I don't know where that name came from. I was not a big cabaret goer I had ever really been to cabaret. I had seen the movie cabaret with my boyfriend and his boyfriend. It was an immersive experience.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:54

Sorry to interrupt, but we have to take a quick break. And now we're back with Beth Lapides and and more Uncabaret Uncabaret, I

Beth Lapides 30:05

mean, it really just came to me like that. And so I really a times when I've wanted to close the show, because it's been a big assignment. And I've carried it. And I've tried to let go of it. And it's come back. And it's taken a lot of my creative energy. And it's given me an enormous amount to but there have been various times, but I have always felt that it was an assignment. And when we started there, I started so I did do it. And we, it was xx, and we did you know, a bunch of shows, they find they lost their funding, but at that point, I was interested, like, I was like, Okay, Uncabaret. I don't know what exactly what it is. It's different than clubs. At the beginning, it was just do what you wanted to, you know, it was just freedom. Then when we moved it from there to a space called highways. It was just me and Taylor neg, Ron and Judy tall. You know, we were three very particular voices and right the I always think of the women's building as the insemination of it, it really was started in that way there. Then I think of the highways years as the gestation because a lot of what is in those highway years and wasn't yours. It was you know, a summer Taylor was so poetic. And so Los Angeles, and he was a great storyteller. Oh my God, such a great storyteller, but also like he could come out with like a very hacky joke, like we're in the middle of the most tender story. He really had that dichotomy. And Judi toll was so confessional. She was among the most confessional comedians and really helped us develop that part of it. You know, when Judy would walk into a room, and she'd say, Oh, how are the reservations? How is it tonight? And I say, I don't know. It's kind of slow. And she, Oh, good. It's gonna be a great show. And you know, she just loved it when there was like, 10 people, and she also loved, you know, a big crowd, but so she had the intimacy. And then I had these giant, big ideas. And I was a big thinker, and sort of wordplay. And also Selena, we're all storytellers. But we also had this just different flavor, each of us. You know, from the beginning, I was sort of, you know, this Barnum and Bailey part of it, and putting on a show and creating it and the creator vibe. So we did it there. And then I put it away for a minute because I did a campaign to make first lady an elected position. And that's a whole other story. But when

Jeff Dwoskin 32:26

I hear that I have that circled.

Beth Lapides 32:29

We'll come back. And then there's a great impresario of Los Angeles nightclubs, he's gone. He's left Los Angeles now, but his name was Ron Paul is John Pierre Bokaro. And I almost said to John, John Paul sort, I mean, but John Pierre was just really almost a genius of nightclubs. He really knew how to make a space that was exciting and artistic. And it was a curated space. You know, most clubs, you know, comedy clubs are booked. Most nightclubs are a little bit, you know, money. There's not a vision as to who's going to be in there. But John here really had that he had a real sense of combining energies and what it was going to be like, anyway, this was his third club. He had done loss of club and he did the original Largo, and this was his third Luna Park. And so he called me and he said, Do you want to do something? I'm opening a new club, and I said, I'm looking for space for Uncabaret. I'm kind of excited about it. It's a comedy show. I don't know. Is it going to be funny? And I said, no jump here. I was like, be funny. And yes. And he booked us for three Sunday nights. And we ran for the entire time that club was open seven years, every Sunday with like a one Sunday off for Christmas every year. And that those years the Luna Park years are what people really think of as the years when I'm cabaret was born. Because that was when it really came to the surface. I was when people really started to know about it. That was when the original group really formed. In the Luna Park years, it was just it was just an incredible time. All at once. In those years. We had Bob Odenkirk we had David Cross, Judy and Taylor. We had Janine Garoppolo Patton, Oswald blink capatch Bobcat Goldthwait, Kathy Griffin, Meryl Marco. I mean, just goes on. And the list was incredible. Jeff Garlin some people, storytellers and Andy kindler, Andy Dick, Scott Thompson, famously from kids in the hall, he had never done stand up and, and he was nervous, but he wanted to he's nervous, but he wanted to so we're standing backstage before he was about to go on and he's holding a wig and I'm like, What's the wig? And he was like, I'm gonna do my like, you know, character. I was like, Scott, you know, the rules like no characters, like that's the rule. No characters, that's you. He's like, Well, fine. I'm just gonna go on stage and tell everyone that you won't let me do characters and I was like, Alright, and then it was hilarious. And he did that. And, you know, I'm not I didn't let him do it. And you know, it was great. It's funny. Laura Kightlinger Jack Black did a little bit just such a vibrant time of creating this different kind of comedy. And it was when we started there was, was really like, if you watch The X Files, which we did over the pandemic, we watched every episode, you know, in the course, maybe six months. And it was really interesting comparison, because very similar thing happened. It was this long time period where when it started, there were no cell phones, there was just the breadth of the internet happening. You know, Sunday's were still like the Sunday Times and there wasn't even HBO Sundays, there was nothing. So we were on Sunday nights, the Sunday thing was a very serendipitous choice. And it was perfect, because it was the day when people who were even when people came over in the industry, they weren't coming in their suits, suits weren't suits, it was never a showcase. It was always a show we tons of famous people there when Tarantino and Robin Williams and John C. Reilly and the whole Sex in the City brew. And suddenly Susan and showrunners, and directors and I mean, there were just people there all the time. And it was a very vibrant, creative birth of a time something new was really happening. And because I still was a little bit, I don't want to say naive, but I really came from the art world, I really didn't understand Hollywood, like, maybe that's what made it work. Like I really didn't understand Hollywood at all. And I didn't understand what the various I was just possessed by this idea of you know, and I've learned about Hollywood, and I've come of it to a certain extent, but it was really a passion project. It was such a passion project. And it was a passion for everybody. But things were invented there. Mr. Show was a little bit invented there. You know, people told stories that turned into their HBO specials. And that was just it wasn't and people would you know, people would come in Julia did everything Julie Sweeney did everything that was turned into God said ha that mean, surely it was such a great practitioner of Uncabaret a real apostle of this form. And it was a time of very, it was like a true believer thing. People were really doing it from the heart. And because everybody was so bottled up, because what people don't understand about comedy then was it was so ossified. It was very much the tight 10, which meant, you have this 10 minute set, and you go from club to club, and you do it over and over again. And hopefully you would get a deal, you know, a holding deal. And hopefully, that holding deal would become a pilot and the pilot become a show and you would become Seinfeld. And that did happen. You know, people did get that, you know, you would do your tight end to get your late night spot. And the late nights. I mean, it meant a whole different thing than to get a late night spot because there wasn't a billion things to watch. And there weren't a billion specials. So people were really doing that. But because of that people were so wound up with all this stuff. They had to say all this natural comedy, been two of my things going in where I would talk on the phone, we Yes, we talked on the phone, it was crazy. I would talk on the phone. I would talk on the phone to my friends, and it would be hilarious. And I go see them in shows. And wasn't that funny? I was like, why can't we come up with a way to make it like as funny as it is on the phone? And that that's a way of saying intimacy and conversation. And I didn't have those two words, then but I do in retrospect. See, that's what I was saying. So you know, that's what it was. And it was wild. And it was crazy. And then there was a New York and LA Times above the fold on a Friday in the calendar section story about a new breed of comedians that Chuck Crisafulli wrote, and he really got it right. I mean, he came to a lot of shows, he didn't come to one show, and then write something he came to shows for months. And you know, subsequently to that I've spoken with him and he has talked about how he was given the comedy beaten so excited and then started going to comedy clubs, and was like horrified. So when he discovered Uncabaret, it was it was like yeah, oh, this is what I thought it was gonna be. So we had found I mean, in so much of culture is about this, you know, is there somebody in the media who connects to it? That can be the word spreader? Who was

Jeff Dwoskin 39:27

also willing to put the time in because it sounds it sounds like a one off evening. Add Uncabaret for a reporter. It could go either way with Oh, we

Beth Lapides 39:37

did. We had one off the evening reporter from the variety he slept on a certain night and was like, Well, I don't even know what they're talking about. This isn't good. And that was that.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:46

Was there a lot of folks that you know, they came they're like, I bet I tried. This isn't for me. It has it's a completely different kind of sounds like a mentality change like something where you have to give up that I know Are the Titans gonna kill at the Comedy Store? But I gotta I'm gonna bear my soul and hope that it works.

Beth Lapides 40:07

You know, there might have been that but it didn't. Most people who, who found it and came were like, Oh, I mean, I would you know, at the beginning, I was telling my friends come see it and they would go. No, I just I, you know, I hate stand up. And I guess not like that, you know, and really, we just were holding on for this article, you know, there was a lot of like, can we are we going to be able to find our audience, but most of the people that found us it was out of the way enough and it was it was what it was, I mean, it was always advertised exactly as it was good entertainment. For now, SeaWorld was our first motto, we have like a goddess figure, I mean, everything about it with you, we're going to come to it, you wouldn't expect it to be different than it was. I'm sure some people came and didn't care for a job. But more people came and were like, Oh, I'm gonna bring I'm gonna be back next week. And I'll bring my friends

Jeff Dwoskin 41:01

I made the I meant from the performers point of view, like, Oh, it wasn't for

Beth Lapides 41:04

everybody. No, I mean, for sure. Wasn't for everybody. But the people was for it was really for it was 100% there were comedians who were not interested in doing it.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:14

I would imagine I could picture like, 80% just make 80% of the audience every week. Exact same people.

Beth Lapides 41:21

I don't know if it was 80 but maybe 50 I mean, there was definitely at least

Jeff Dwoskin 41:24

6532 I just met like there's i There's Yeah, there was definitely make up a number just flies by by us man. Like there's probably regulars? Yeah,

Beth Lapides 41:36

yeah, there were for sure. With the whole thing was built on regulars. And there was a besides regulars, a group of people I called bringers. Not only did they come, but they brought they were always bringing people, they're always introducing new people to it, you have to understand there wasn't a lot to choose, there were just there was nothing like it. When it started. It was not like, oh, we could do go to uncap. Or we could go to you know, 20 other shows that are storytelling. You know, there was no storytelling comedy at that point. And then when we had when we branched out and we had our spin off shows, there was a show that we did called say the word that was essentially TV writers telling the story of their own lives. And we did that up at the Skirball Cultural Center. And that also, I mean, now that's a very done thing, that kind of storytelling show, but there was nothing like it at the time, those nights were really special also. And then we did the other network festival of unaired pilots, which is also was of its time because pilots don't really happen now. Now the network is like we'll order six if we don't like it, we won't show it the at the time, there was a lot of pilots that got made and people would disappear and be like, Oh, my God, I got a deal to do my spouse calm my favorite show. I'm so excited. And then they'd go off and then three months later come back tail between their legs. And it didn't go and why not. So I thought, well, and then that happened to me. And then I was like, we let's do a festival, these shows we've made and that was exciting. And that was kind of hot, too and went to various comedy festivals. And we got very close to releasing it. And then ultimately, there was some music rights issues,

Jeff Dwoskin 43:15

always with the music rights issues paying their salespeople. But you had a lot of spin off, like shows on Comedy Central MTV.

Beth Lapides 43:24

Oh, yeah. Well, we had different we had Uncabaret in itself in various versions. We did the Yeah, the Comedy Central show we did radio Uncabaret. comedy. Comedy you comedy. I don't know, comedy. I only spent a year of my life there. Joffe did to daily shows for a year.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:44

It's four amazing episodes, that anyone listening can get on Amazon Prime.

Beth Lapides 43:50

Thank you so much. Yes, that was exciting to always, always to the curve I my whole goal is to not be ahead of my time anymore. Just be in my time. When when we did those Amazon Prime shows there wasn't even prime. We were like the very first like Amazon Prime show people were like Amazon, watch it on Amazon. What's that?

Jeff Dwoskin 44:11

And I gotta say those they were good. I mean, like, I don't mean just funny. I mean, your looks like you had a budget. I mean, it was like, it's not like somebody just shots on

Beth Lapides 44:21

if I told you with, okay, I'm only gonna say this for the kids. Okay, because you got to know that you can do so much with so little. I can't even tell you out loud what the budget was. But it was I'm sure some of you have spent more a month on Uber Eats. I'm just saying it was really low. Oh, that's great. Thank you. Thank you. Well, part of that. I'd like to give props to our CO producer and director Adam Saki who is really he made some dare is his movie and he's done a couple of other things. And he was it was me and my now partner Mitch Kaplan, who's the musical director and we are definitely a producer's he's produced a lot of music and I have came up, but I never wanted to be a producer. And what was never my idea. I had a producing partner that I was married to we had been divorced. And the producing came on to me and I now do love producing but not always as a third or so I mean, I'll always rather have somebody else produce it. Anyway, we brought in Adam to do it with and it was he was so great for us to work with because He was meticulous. And he was a film school guy. And he really knew cameras, and he was great technically. And one thing I love about Uncabaret so much is it is always the group. It doesn't happen without me. But it isn't me. You know, it's so much about that mysterious force. That is it's alchemy. To figure out why does a night Come magic? What was so great, even from the beginning, is somebody would say something, sometimes it was me, you know, I got up first. And I would try to always be in the now and what was the day like, and especially because I was doing it every week, and everything was very present. And but it might be somebody else who said something. And then stories would unfold from that and how that magic happened was so incredible. So you know, I'm always aware of what the group dynamic is, and how that group really make something. And Adam was so great to work with, just to give Adam some props.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:24

Good job, Adam.

Beth Lapides 46:25

Good job, Adam. Thanks so much.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:27

All right, we skipped over it. But I want to go back to your historic campaign to make the First Lady, the First Lady and elected position during the 1992 election. I'm just thinking behind this.

Beth Lapides 46:40

I had jokes then. And I had a joke that went something like this, if I can remember properly, I'm running for First Lady. It was like, you know, I'm ready for first lady, she does all this work, so we should pay her. But if we're gonna pay her, we should get to pick her. Let's pick her. Let's pay her. I mean, that was the essential idea. And I had it all worked out where she would get one half of the White House and he'd get the other half, but men could run and then they'd probably win. And then they'd have everything and but I really, I really believed in my heart that and I still kind of do. I mean, I do think it's a great idea that by having an elected First Lady, we would open up the presidency to way more different, you know, we wouldn't have that whole family imperative. First Lady is a real job, like, we do need someone in that job. The president can't do it without someone. So if the President doesn't have like a son, or a daughter or a sister, or like somebody to do that job, the presidency is not fulfilling its obligation. So we're really putting this whole family directive prerogative or something onto the presidency, it requires family. So I thought, well, if we elected a First Lady, then and it would, you know, could be a man, as I said, and oh, so I was running, but we didn't really expect to win, because there wasn't really I ran an actual campaign. I did a lot of I did a lot of TV and I went to the Democratic National Convention. And I'll have to say a lot of the delegates were really like, you know, that makes a lot of sense that, that really doesn't makes a lot of sense. I was like, you know, no more pennies, pennies, or just, you know, let's get rid of penny. I had a few platforms I'm with Yeah, yeah, I have. I had platforms. But it wasn't the platform. That was, it was really the thing of having a first lady that wasn't an unpaid job for a woman. It's what it was about. And the only really other thing to say about it is Oprah wasn't as big as she became. And they were desperate to have me on the show. And I just kept saying no, because I had a live show that night that shows you my naivete. I was like, Why can't because I have a theater show. I have a theater show that and I

Jeff Dwoskin 48:44

said no to Oprah. I was like, I can't find

Beth Lapides 48:46

no, you can't find me to Chicago because I've got to be at a small theater in West Hollywood that night.

Jeff Dwoskin 48:57

Burying the lede.

Beth Lapides 48:59

She wants to talk about bad decisions. But anyway.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:04

Let's mention your podcast life and Beth and are you mad at Amy Schumer for stealing that name?

Beth Lapides 49:09

Well, my podcast is on hiatus. And not because Amy Schumer stole the name as you know, doing a podcast was a lot of work. You know, it was the idea of that podcast was I wanted to dig into this question of what what makes you you like what would you say is the essence of you? And it's a very hard question. I don't even know if I could have answered it. But people came in and I we talked about it. And we had William Defoe did a great interview and all sorts of people. Yeah, Harry Potter himself. Nice. Eventually, it was just so and I really believed in like fine tuning and editing and I wanted to add, you know, go along and then edit a lot of work. And I just it was to sort of general to be able to figure out like what vertical it's stuck in and I am very mad at Amy Schumer for stealing anti lamb. I wouldn't be mad if she would put me on her show as some sort of AMI come on slowly, right? Come on Ami. It's only right. I might use it again that title for something else. And I might go back to that podcast, but for now I have put it on the shelf.

Jeff Dwoskin 50:11

And Amy Schumer rewatch already finding

Beth Lapides 50:18

there's only so many projects a girl can do. I've, uh, you know, I'm a new show called it's a lot. So I'm putting that together anyway, blah, blah, blah.

Jeff Dwoskin 50:26

What else you got going on right now? What's you have so many? There's 1000 things we didn't mention. But that's okay.

Beth Lapides 50:31

We're not We're not required to mention everything in every conversation. That is true. What's going on right Uncabaret continues people are I've a lot of people who rediscover it and are like, Oh my god, I used to go, I'm so glad you're still here. And it's so great now, because we have, you know, multiple generations of it's very not age specified. There's parents with kids and kids with parents, and it's great. And we were once a month that club called El Cid, as we record this, there will be some other live events popping up. And we are also still on Zoom once a month, which we started we pivoted to zoom a couple of weeks right after lockdown. We just said let's let's experiment. Let's try it. And they became their own show. It's very different than live show. But it's conversational in demand. And it's a little bit like a talk show. And we have regulars so people come back. And it's the ongoing story. And we have some people come once and it's been great. We got to start working with some people that were friends that are in New York that we wouldn't have gotten to have otherwise. And so it's been a blessing. We've had people watching in Europe and all over the country. So it's been really lovely. That's once a month live show once a month. There might be some stuff on the road this year. And that's Uncabaret. I also am working on my next solo performance adventure and that's called it's a lot and we'll do the first previews in Palm Springs Palm Springs Cultural Center in May on May 3.

Jeff Dwoskin 51:58

Well that's exciting. So I Where can people keep up with you on the socials?

Beth Lapides 52:02

Well interested in us on Instagram at Uncabaret and also at Beth underscore Lapides, la p i d. S, that underscore also among my worst decisions in life. There's Facebook groups that Vaughn Cadbury Facebook group is very lively, and it's fun. But Instagram is the most, you know, there's websites Uncabaret and def Lapides websites that have various information. So I'm also on substack, which I'm really enjoying, I'd love people to find me there, Beth Lapides substack. And that account is called the infinite creator, which is also the name of my coaching and creativity work.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:46

Amazing. I'll put links to everything. Oh, right, I

Beth Lapides 52:49

bet you will ice

Jeff Dwoskin 52:51

bath. And of course, the podcasts are on TV show that they can get on Hulu. Amy, and also just let's not everyone, don't forget the original audio book. So you need to decide audible, I guess you can get that on Audible.

Beth Lapides 53:12

You can get it every single place that audio books are available. Audible is great. Well, you know, I learned a lot about audiobooks. There's libro FM, there's also libraries, you can get it out of the library. If you just go to Amazon and put my name in the book and it just comes up right there. And so it's very, very available.

Jeff Dwoskin 53:31

You had to be a fool and

Beth Lapides 53:32

you would you really that's a that's a silly if you can't find it. I'm very excited about that project. I'm excited that people are hearing it and loving it. And I'm excited that it's helping people and entertaining them at the very same time.

Jeff Dwoskin 53:46

It's the triple threat. It's it's everything bad. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. I really appreciate it. Jeff. It's

Beth Lapides 53:53

been a delight your sweetheart. That's been fun. Let's stay in touch.

Jeff Dwoskin 53:56

That would be great. That's all right. Why that would be great. They're all US average. I'll be great. I for now. All right. How amazing was Beth Lapides, I know so amazing, you can check out Uncabaret if you're live in California or like I mentioned you can watch some awesome episodes on Amazon Prime while you're on Amazon head over to Audible and get that's amazing. So you need to decide audio book narrated by Beth and all her friends tons of great interviews to listen into their like we discussed earlier you're gonna love it. That's new show. It's a lot is coming out soon. If you're in California, check that out. Alpha betas.com Go to the show notes. There's like 100 links for Beth and stuff for Beth go support Beth and Uncabaret and everything comedy do it up. Well as I ramble on, I realized it is just me in denial that the episode is over episode 223 has come to a close I want to thank Again, my guests, Beth Pettis, and of course I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

CTS Announcer 55:10

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