#226 Here’s the Story of the Brady Bunch’s Christopher Knight

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Jan, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 226 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what is sure to be a Brady rific conversation, a classic one for the ages. That's right. Christopher Knight is here Peter Brady himself. So go grab some pork chops and applesauce because that's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds. I just want to remind you of a bunch of other great interviews of recent Bob Eckstein episode 225 and Lydia Cornell episode 224. A bunch of great ones to catch up on after my deep dive into the Brady Bunch with Christopher Knight himself. Christopher shares a ton of great stories. And of course, I talked to him about Sharknado six, how could I not enjoy? Alright everyone, I'm excited to introduce you to my next guest ranked number 20 and VH ones 100 greatest kid Stars of All Time, loved him as Arthur Owens, Phil Packer Martex employee of the year if you were lucky enough to grow up with him on your TV as I was and you're in for a real treat, please welcome reluctant icon and TV royalty from The Brady Bunch. Peter Brady himself, Christopher Knight.

Christopher Knight 1:56

What an introduction. Like there is such a thing as TV royalty.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:00

I think when you were just on the Masked Singer they referred to as TV royalty. And I thought I thought that was a good good you, Barry. Mike. I was being on the massing or working with the Brady boys again,

Christopher Knight 2:11

a wild experience and not something that was you know, neither in my power, you know, Ally or, or on my radar screen. You know, it's something that was on Barry's radar screen, both Barry and Mike in music, you know, Mike has a band. I don't know if it's more recreational than his business for him. But Barry's, you know, a musical performer and I'm legendarily at odds with music. But this was an opportunity that would only fly if the three of us work together. So it was incumbent upon me to be a good brain and take one for the team. And actually it was it was a it was a very as they always are a wonderful experience. I'm glad that I did

Jeff Dwoskin 2:50

I imagine being dressed up as a mommy helped kind of just make it more fun because then it's like it kind of masks I mean, maybe you're singing insecurities because you're kind of you know, no notes that you while it's happening by time they know it's you like, Oh my God.

Christopher Knight 3:05

Yes, it makes it a lot more difficult. But yes, have you know having a mask on? Yeah, certainly one has a tendency to think they can make a bigger fool of themselves when they're masked.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:15

I've read that the singing thing wasn't your forte wasn't something that you naturally enjoyed. Even though one of your quotes from The Brady Bunch one of them are probably famous quotes is from you singing

Christopher Knight 3:27

exact but understand what that what you're now referring to as a quote, very quotable was already them taking, I thought it was literally a comment on my singing verses so bad. Let's point it out, and really make it horrendous purposefully. That was my little mind at the time. That's how bad I was. Having a cracking voice was one way of making certain that Chris didn't have anything to do, which he didn't really want anything to do. But then it pointed it all out, like give me no solo, I would have been fine with that. That would have been fine. If that was the episode I wasn't in.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:01

But instead, you became sort of the poster child for people's voices changing and

Christopher Knight 4:08

right and my voice hadn't changed at that time. So it was that was all foreign to me. But it played the show worked. The song is as a decent message. When it's time to change. You got to rearrange I

Jeff Dwoskin 4:21

said to my wife, we're going to talk to Christopher knights you guys when it's time to change.

Christopher Knight 4:27

I'll never live it down. But you know, that's probably that's me doing well in front of a mic.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:32

It's as good as I could do. So I can relate. So I may as I Oh, that's me. I I can't sing.

Christopher Knight 4:39

I mean I don't understand people who know they can't sing well but have such a they get so much enjoyment out of going to karaoke and it's crazy bad and I mean I am that's my it's my one of my greatest fears is having you know, he used to be just sing Happy Birthday. But now after 50 years, I've learned Happy Birthday 65 years I've learned to Happy Birthday but it just getting in front of anybody and singing and doing poorly of it. Maybe Maybe I'm sensitive to it because I was asked to do it professionally. And I figured if anybody's going to be professionally doing something, they should have some measure of talent doing it.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:13

They kept putting on albums, right? You're too wedded on Maureen's album, or solo, you had four albums, at least.

Christopher Knight 5:21

Well, Maureen and I had, it wasn't just her solo. It was it was both of us. But yeah, but I mean, to get it, there was just pathetic. It's not like, you know, I had to have somebody sing in my ear. It's like, I can maybe sing to a song in the shower. Maybe I can't remember a melody or hit, you know, it's there's just it literally no talent. I mean, embarrassingly, what I'd like to point out is sometimes you see someone with a ball that you see is just has no talent, and no experience with any kind of sport with a ball. And you know, it's fine. If that's me in singing, I had to take pride in the fact that there are some things I'm just not good at, and nor am I going to spend time trying to get good at and that's going to be okay, then I think of those people that can't throw a ball and can't catch a ball. And I think what's wrong with it, so it helps me be less judgmental, knowing like singing inabilities

Jeff Dwoskin 6:13

zeamais They really wanted you guys saying they like I read their grooming, it'd be like the new Partridge Family. I also read it to like Tony Orlando, open for you once at the Minnesota State Fair,

Christopher Knight 6:23

the Minnesota. I know we did travel I did we do the Minnesota State Fair, I think Tony Orlando might have opened for Barry doing something, maybe you opened for us. And it wasn't the you know, so it wasn't the people it wasn't the Schwartz's and ABC or Paramount who wanted us to be music icons, it was our moms, including my home. And this is the greatest irony of the whole, the whole experience. I mean, this is being pushed upon us by our parents and managers around us being pushed on to even the shorts as it into the show where they didn't want singing the Brady's on the Brady Bunch didn't need have to have singing on the show whatsoever. This was us wanting that on the show, Barry especially. And everybody else seemed to have some talent signee except for me, and it was really hard to swallow that my mom was one of the greatest proponents for this. I'm thinking mom, you care to assess the talent that I have in this and why should I want to do this. And my mom was just about business and leveraging your popularity in whatever way possible. And I learned a lesson and very real fashion very early about that. One shouldn't just try to leverage an audience that you possess, unless it's really something that you're gifted at, have a calling for, or need to impart upon them. I mean, just business for business sake. Even if it's taking a lot of my soul away trying to do it, it was just the wrong thing for moms to push their son into. And that she was that she was surprised by my reaction to it just kills me.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:59

What was your parents reaction in general? I mean, here they are like their son is a Brady. It's like, did it change over time, because I know when the Brady Bunch was first on, it was like, it wasn't a top 10 hit, you know,

Christopher Knight 8:11

it took and it continues to arc upward, you know, so no, in whatever point in time I'm being taught to it is greater in the future. So it's always looking back on the show. It's never what it is currently almost consistent. And though it was popular, it wasn't like it became it wasn't like it was going to be a show that that was going to be on have some legacy. It be some ideas later, but still there was there was enough popularity with it, and success with it, that it became an issue in our home. My parents are artists, my dad, an actor, my mom and I are an artist, and they had ideas of art that we were not, and that the show wasn't. So I had that prosper, you know that my mom hated the show. She was embarrassed by really. So I had lived through that.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:59

While it was on. She was embarrassed by it. Yes, that

Christopher Knight 9:03

it was you know that it was insipid. But now all the things that she didn't like about parts of the industry and all that, you know, it wasn't literature, you know, and it wasn't a great work. And it was, you know, and all this other stuff is she had, you know, a heightened sense of art. And I wasn't doing that.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:23

They just didn't consider TV. Your dad was in movies, right? No, he's theater theater.

Christopher Knight 9:29

Yeah. And and there's the, you know, to a degree, no, my dad didn't own that same I think my dad after you know, being an unemployed actor for as many years as he was recognized as having a series of any kind is there success in that and once you'd feel validated by it. Now my mom, my mom, it wasn't it was the work itself. Literally though. She was a painter. She never painted once she had kids and started again after she retired. So she wasn't really putting it out there anymore as an artist either. It just You know, it was it was an unfortunate situation where didn't like what we were doing. She didn't want us watching television at all. She had an idea of what art should have been and we weren't doing it. And the more successful it became, the more irritated she became, which isn't what she should have wanted, you know, and then she's leveraging, you know, her child to sing and he can do that so poorly that it's embarrassing to himself. But that's okay with her. Because I guess that was more her idea.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:30

If you could be a recording star then maybe, okay.

Christopher Knight 10:32

She knew nothing about music. So she didn't know how to, I guess gauge that. Not that she was an actress, but she thought she had more skill, perhaps assessing what talent existed in a television production or movie production than she could have, you know, as a singer on a on an album, because if she had so much trouble with the Brady Bunch, she should have had more trouble with me recording albums, for crying out loud talk, or

Jeff Dwoskin 10:57

Oh, my was it just weird for your mom to see you and like this perfect family on TV. And then

Christopher Knight 11:03

that too, and that, you know, we'd talk about it years later, she had a difficulty with it because it would challenge her idea of what family was in our family was nothing like the Brady's to the point where I don't know who wouldn't want to aspire to be closer to the Brady's because it seems to be functioning. Well. She thought it was dysfunctional, and it's functioning that no family is like that. I've come to learn over the years, there are two halves of the Brady equation. There are families just like the Brady's and children from families that were nothing like their brains, but it works for either, and becomes the surrogate for a child who is a latchkey kid, and reminiscent for a kid who grows up in a, let's say, a big Catholic family with a lot of brothers and sisters. And I think we should be feel moderately more positive about the fact that we were able to play to both audiences, but not to my mom, and not to those who would hope that it was you know, Neil Simon, serves a different purpose.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:57

During the show you I mean, you were close with Florence Henderson, right. And like, I mean, you're close with everyone. But I read that consider her your second mom. So was there jealousy then to that may have just stemmed from from that the closeness to Florence or even over as time went on?

Christopher Knight 12:14

I don't think I've given my mom a pass here. But I don't believe at all. My mom was a great fan of Florence, and liked Florence deeply. And Bob, she had a great deal of respect for both of them. Yeah. So you know, no one, I don't think there was a jealousy and with respect to that was probably one of them. Take him, Take me, you can have him.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:34

He was saying.

Christopher Knight 12:38

You know, my mom and I had a difficult relationship even before the Brady Bunch. So I think my mother grew up being who I say, trying to be opposed to her parents, or being opposed to her parents, and working that, for all was worth literally, she didn't have a family dynamic that she could fall back on, or as an experience from which she could have judged the Brady's in being anything similar or realistic, because it wasn't how she grew up. And she wouldn't have known how to raise a family like that. So it to her was was some kind of fantasy

Jeff Dwoskin 13:15

in terms of her disliking the show. I mean, your parents are in your mom, right? My dad, I understand. We're very proactive and helping you get through auditions, various auditions and work and all that kind of stuff. So landing a series is right and your siblings weren't as lucky as you to to kind of snag like this huge role. It seemed like this would have been the end goal, like grabbing something like the Brady Bunch.

Christopher Knight 13:39

No, absolutely. So that's why it was so confusing for me. I mean, this was the target. But at the same time, then hating I guess for her, it would be careful what you wish for. And it wasn't like she was over with this distaste, I would know all about it, because this is what I would hear at home. You know, she didn't offer that up in public and to others who worked on the show. It's just how much you know, and how forceful my mom was. She was a really acerbic person, I mean, just highly intelligent. And but on the negative side, you know, and so she would, I would have to live through all that negativity at home, knowing at the same time this is I'm here because of in part because of you and supporting the family. The whole thing was sort of inside out, can we appreciate the part that it's playing then and helping support the family at least, you know, and apparently was a goal we could feel accomplished in making that goal, a reality, at least to some extent,

Jeff Dwoskin 14:37

outside of not becoming a mute music star. Did you ever kind of did this ever find peace or reconcile itself this this topic and you being on the Brady Bunch?

Christopher Knight 14:47

Yes, it did. And it was it was real. All of that unfortunately was you know, was buried in stuff, personal stuff that had nothing to do with show business The Brady Bunch art it had had to do with life and survival and experiences in life and her way of dealing with life. And I got caught up in all of that. I mean, my mom was an only child. And I don't know, you know, you talk to some shrinks about only children, it's not the most ideal way to grow up if you're going to have a family of your own. Because you do not know how to allow your children even have an individual relate or haven't have relationships outside of you. Imagine if you as an individual who's experienced life as an only child, you then have children, but it's as though there's no wheel, just a bunch of spokes off a hub, literally, like all of the communication needs to go back to the hub out to that other radius. And the fact that there's ability to communicate, because there's all this folks are attached is irritating to a person like my mom, like literally, we should have all been just kept in individual cages and not having our own relationships. And that sounds weird, but

Jeff Dwoskin 16:05

how did your mom feel when your dad was on the Brady Bunch,

Christopher Knight 16:08

probably grateful, I don't think she was any less critical of his performance. She was mind grateful for a little bit of nepotism helping out, you know, the family coffers, probably for a second, my dad and being an actor, were a challenge, you know, in a lot of respects, and that's precisely what she elected to get married to, knowingly, then I become a continuation of that. So, you know, I think a lot of that I learned early that at least if one is acting is like, a hard, it's a hard field to be in if one wants to live like behind a white picket fence and kind of a predictable kind of life, because it's it's anything but there's some that we all know of, that are doing quite nice, nicely, but far more that don't have a white picket fence. So it's a live like that. And then not to have a career of your own. You don't just allow yourself to be a you know, a mother inside of that. Yeah, it's strenuous. It's not accountable. And there's a lot of them. I like to say that actors are the most educated near homeless people by election, there are just one step for being out on the street at all times. And that is a difficult way of raising a family

Jeff Dwoskin 17:25

have to take a quick break. I want to thank all of you for your support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my amazing conversation with Christopher Knight. Do think it was cool. Your dad was on he was Mazzi Marshall, the host of the quiz show or Cindy froze. I just thought that was an interesting, you know, you find all these tidbits.

Christopher Knight 17:48

Yeah, my dad didn't, very funny guy, a handsome guy. He didn't in his television career didn't play. It didn't do comedies that much at all, because he had that brooding look. So he was always a Nazi, on combat, or on Hogan's Heroes, an SS officer. So you know, if it was a war picture film or a TV show about war, he always played the German guy was no one's got it, yet. He had that heaviness, you know that there was fear about him. And that wasn't really who he was as a person. It could be that's one side of him. But he also had this very funny side, that he only got to exercise as an actor on stage. Got it?

Jeff Dwoskin 18:28

Wow. All right. Would you let your kids act?

Christopher Knight 18:33

If I had? No, I'm? No. My opinion of of children acting as actors is that there's nothing consequential they could they could do for themselves as a child actor that wouldn't mess them up or potentially mess them up. So why do it there's no success one kid can have in their youth, that probably would mean it would become most probably an impediment to them. Being successful as an adult. There is no child's army, we have the the in Ordos. DiCaprio is of the world who were both a child star, and have grown on to become wonderful adult talents as well. But that's not an easy transition. It's a total remake of that actor thing from a child to an adult. So it's probably best to approach it as an adult. But if you enjoy being in front of people and entertaining them, there's no there's no shortage of places to go from high school theater to community theater. And when you're 18. If you truly, really want to be an actor, then go for it and study it. I'm not opposed to that. I'm just thinking that any child who is an actor is probably doing it for the same reasons I was doing that was to help the family survive. And I don't think anybody should be having kids if the kids have to be turned to to help support the family. We don't live like that anymore. We don't put kids out into the fields. You live on a farm so that there's a roof over the head. I mean, I know that is the way my dad grew up and many generations before him, but I think we've progressed beyond that. And I, if I was a parent, I'd make sure that my child doesn't have to work so that they can have a roof over their head. I can buy that they're going to have enough time as an adult, but they're going to be worried about that very thing. They don't need to do it as a kid.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:22

Right? There's there's few like examples like Jodie Foster as Leonardo DiCaprio is like, there's so many especially I think back then, probably not as many fail safes in place to protect kids like they they probably do now. They probably have more in place now. But

Christopher Knight 20:36

funny. Jodie Foster was somebody who I went on a number of interviews with because her brother Buddy was my contemporary. He was my age. And so we would see him, my mom and I on a lot of interviews, so we would see buddy's mom and his little sister who was dragged along with Buddy, because at the time, she wasn't an she hadn't started acting, she was probably I was 10. She's probably six. And she had this little voice she had like, it was like, it was like peppermint patty, she had this Husky level voice as a kid. And she was the cutest, funniest little six year old five year old in less than a couple of years. There were invariably I'd see him a couple times a week and see see Jody,

Jeff Dwoskin 21:14

that's funny. So when you were auditioning, I read or maybe her Gen interview that you have, I don't have specific recollection of auditioning for the Brady Bunch,

Christopher Knight 21:25

I would have remembered a lot more, I would have taken the time to remember the uniqueness of the opportunity. Had I known the success it was going to become but you go on interviews, read for a lot of things most you don't get is an interview, callback interview, a screen test, you know, you're getting closer to something but the chances of any of that falling out and making making it anywhere are so remote still, that one doesn't really take stock. I mean, I started taking stock of this, of course, when it got in front of a camera, and there was a cast. Otherwise it interview process. Yeah, it's just in it's mixed in with all those other interviews I was doing at the time, which are now just a jumble mess of of calls that I went on in that

Jeff Dwoskin 22:13

era. It was just a blur. could have been anything that just picked you up. Okay, I got it. I got it. I saw when you were on the Brady Bunch. And I had Lloyd Schwartz on my podcast, great guy. And so he was talking about being your dialect coach

Christopher Knight 22:28

dialogue coat I liked when he was the dialect coach for my cracking voice because that was sort of a dialect. Yeah, he was the dialogue coach helping us through our lines helped more than other dialogue

Jeff Dwoskin 22:42

makes more sense. The though we also talked about your other very famous quote from the show is impersonation of Humphrey Bogart. Right? Yeah. Yeah. That he was on. Your impersonation is pork chops and his his impersonation of Humphrey Bogart. At least I was listening to your podcast. And Barry Williams had some recollection of helping you with that as well. The interesting thing when we were talking about it is you forget, he's like, Oh, you couldn't go to the now if like you had to do it, you'd go to the internet.

Christopher Knight 23:11

And oddly enough, there was a bogey movie on. So we shot over three days. So we'd have to be one of those nights best if it was preceding the episode, not in the middle of it. And there was like the night before we were to begin filming that show. There was a bogey film on at 11 o'clock, and I had the intention to watch a little bit of it. And I it was at 11 o'clock and I was asleep. I probably nine you were up very early to get to the set by nine o'clock in the morning. So I think when I probably suggested to my mom that I you know, I need to watch Bogey, she realized that wasn't going to happen, though. It wasn't like she was going to wake me so I could see him. Yeah, and I'd never seen Humphrey Bogart who I would enjoy Humphrey Bogart for a number of years after that. So my entire impression of Humphrey Bogart is really an impression of Lloyd doing Humphrey Bogart. And I know now that the reason his lip did that is he had, he had whatever that's called, where you have dry mouth, and his lipid gets stuck on his on his teeth. I didn't know what he was doing. You know, I would just say he did

Jeff Dwoskin 24:11

this right. Yeah, I remember like, my teenage years was doing impressions of the person on Saturday live doing the impression so

Christopher Knight 24:19

right. What is that the game they play? When you tell somebody something then they tell somebody else something and then they tell somebody else? Something by five people later it's completely a different thing. Operator now operator, it'd be like that doing an impression of somebody doing an impression doing somebody an impression. I mean, if you look back and you watch that show, I think there were four four of us had to do a Humphrey Bogart impersonation and everything and be Florence Bob. I don't know if Greg did but I think by the end of that episode, every was trying it so you're stuck. Yeah, who would have known that? I'd be asked to say pork chops and applesauce for the rest of my life

Jeff Dwoskin 24:57

is worse thing.

Christopher Knight 24:58

I'm the only one I literally I might loan out company my corporation is porkchop phenomenon, Inc, is I really do believe I'm probably the only person in like that as a pork chop phenomenon.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:08

I think so I think it's funny isn't it? How just certain things just stick and pop culture like there's a million like I mean there's a sign something suddenly came up. Oh my No I mean there's there's other quotes from it by like some Marsha

Christopher Knight 25:22

Marsha Marsha would be similar to that. But that at least that might have some energy going into it because Marsha Marsha Marsha, I think the in and not just the way that she performed it, but the attitude towards the older sister, there's a readiness for that statement, and in the way it was stated, but pork chops and applesauce just comes out of nowhere. And the fact that it was it resonated with an audience, you would think that the way that it worked was somebody out there, caught it who had effect on and they started repeating it, and from them repeating it at their school, other people repeated it, and then it grew sort of organically from a center from one person. But that's not the way it works, because it lit fire in numerous places all at once. People didn't know for 10 years that other people watching the show, it had the same reaction to it, or had the same effect on them. They thought early on when people would say I say pork chops, they were the only one who remember that line. And that would be now that everyone recognizes that somebody in their sphere knows the pork chops and applesauce line and where it comes from. And for what reason they don't know

Jeff Dwoskin 26:36

is one of those mysteries. So you got it though it there's at least two now big, big quotes from the show. Time to change and pork chops and applesauce works anytime Hey, what do you want to eat pork chops and applesauce. You know, it's easy to squeeze in. And so you can just kind of work it into every day, which I think is key

Christopher Knight 26:53

I look at I don't even have to ask for the pork chops and applesauce. If I'm going to a restaurant and they have a good pork chops. I'm being told I should have their Bucha

Jeff Dwoskin 27:01

then they run out and get applesauce or something. Oh, so on the mass singer Jenny McCarthy, host of the mass singer. She was also the host of your 35th anniversary reunion special.

Christopher Knight 27:16

And she did a wonderful job. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:18

Was she I was gonna ask was she like, oh, like? How excited was she to see you on the mass singer because she seemed to be your number one fan 35th anniversary.

Christopher Knight 27:27

Unfortunately, because of the structure of mass singer, there isn't any real interaction by the time you're getting unmasked. They're moving on with the show, and you're gone and they're continuing the show. So of course, there's no meeting with them prior to the unmasking. All they know of you and in our case it was one episode is the masked persona. So it would have been fun to have some time with her but there wasn't it

Jeff Dwoskin 27:53

Yeah, things you would have found time to run up to you guys after something she was I got to, I would have hoped it would be a big deal for her.

Christopher Knight 28:00

They had no problem and figuring out who it was.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:03

That's my were my monkey shirt by the way. Oh, you did that. That was pretty awesome. So I want to dive more into the Brady's but I don't want this interview to go by without calling out your role in one of my favorite film franchises of all time, the Sharknado it was and that's not a joke. I had the writer of Sharknado 123 and four on my show we we did a deep dive oral history of all those so I know you were in the last Sharknado it's about time grandpa Clark novas grandpa who's really important to her story, and we got to work with Bernie kapow.

Christopher Knight 28:38

And I love Bernie and I have worked with with Bernie. But the way that that scene was done is my interesting, I only worked one day, my day was in Romania, I had to fly to Romania, and did my part of that scene that we're both in. He did his part in Santa Monica. And neither of us ever worked together on that. See, do two places,

Jeff Dwoskin 29:03

I guess. Yeah. Now that you had mentioned that you were were on two different places in different parts of the boat.

Christopher Knight 29:07

We you know, the fact is that we were in the same scene at the end when it was all put together. So yeah, it was a very interesting experience. But it was Sharknado crying out loud. Yeah, I'll go to Romania for a day.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:20

They could have shot that anywhere.

Christopher Knight 29:23

You would have thought I'm thinking why did Bernie get to stay in Santa Monica? It was it was freezing in Romania. I mean, but you know, he's doing the flip side of the boat in Santa Monica. And I'm thinking how did they put that together and have it make sense the boat that we were on was literally frozen in a river at the time we were doing it, but somehow it's all going to work out and it did sort of? Yeah, no, I mean, as much as anything in Sharknado needs to make it but uh, pleased to have the role that you know, because of its importance in the history of the shop.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:56

Yeah, your death is what drove her entire motivation. Ty,

Christopher Knight 30:00

what a way to go when I'm ready to go.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:01

So all right, so back to the bright side. I didn't want to let that just slip by. Oh as a we're also almost in a spin off of the bionic woman.

Christopher Knight 30:10

Yes. If it didn't mean if you could work with a dog and not have it take I think we were over three days and nobody goes over on television shows just for kicks. I think we're three days over i eggs. There's no way that was gonna make it to a series. Yeah, bionic dog, Max

Jeff Dwoskin 30:25

Max. Alright, so that would be cool. So there's there's more than just Brady's Alright, when I could tell you guys all consider yourself a tight family. Right? I mean, you've known each other now over 50 years. And my question is, the boys always came back for all the reunions like fake Jan fake Cindy fake Marcia, when you're in in doing the those particular you know the Brady's or the variety show and it wasn't a giant fake Jan's probably from the variety shows the most famous. Is it a weird dynamic for you? Your bombs are like, alright, you know, it's well, you're gonna

Christopher Knight 30:57

start off a little bump. Yeah, I mean, it was. I mean, why here I am saying yes to it. And I don't do music, I stepped right into it. And there was a lot of reasons for that. It was right at the time that I was starting to recognize that my career in showbusiness was a livelihood. And what that meant, though, I had left the industry, I was coming back to the industry and this thing came up. So there was a reason to continue doing it. And though I was concerned about the music, I was told by Sid, Marty, no, no, we only need you for the opening and closing. And then we'll do skits in between and I love like Carol Burnett Show and Flip Wilson and all of them, you know, to do variety and sketch comedy. Like that was something that I was really looking forward to doing. Of course, it didn't, that was a healthy promise, and maybe intended. But ultimately, they did come back and asked me to do you know, solos and stuff that was just nearly impossible. Nonetheless, the whole the whole experience, again, was positive. You know, I keep saying that I resistant to this music thing. And every time I do it, my Brady brethren, it becomes a positive experience. And it's partly because they they make it okay, that, you know, they know my limitations, and they cover and carry me in and it's a good experience. Nonetheless,

Jeff Dwoskin 32:13

they got your back my back, they got your back. I mean,

Christopher Knight 32:16

it was to none of our, you know, interests to really suck. And the whole show is such a visual beast. It's a kook. I mean, it was just crazy.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:28

I've talked about the Brady Bunch variety hour on the show before because I've had Bruce Vilanch and Steve blue Stein. Yes. Um, Bruce is what a character Yeah. And they were both writers for you.

Christopher Knight 32:39

Yeah, we I mean, literally, I mean, he said, Marty, we're big with Donnie Maria and I, you know, they got everybody. I mean, we worked with Milton Berle, Farrah Fawcett was a pretty wild experience.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:50

One of the interesting things Robert Reed, there was a lot of tension, I read everything I read, like he had a lot of tension, but it's also clear that he he never missed a reunion. i He always came back. And so I get the impression tonight, even though everything I've read, like within fighting with the Schwartz's or whatever about stories, and you know, that kind of stuff, is that the love they had for all of you guys trumped of that, and he was never going to miss an opportunity to be Mr. Brady.

Christopher Knight 33:17

And I wouldn't have to I'll tuck up under there. That's my rationale as well. It wasn't what you were not doing it for the art form. I mean, you were doing it and you were doing it just for the paycheck. Oh, that was nice. You were doing it because you were part of this group that was home. I mean, it was home even for Bob even for as much as it didn't scratch his creative itch it did there was a place for it in his life and needed place. So as frustrated as he might get and having said yes, saying yes was not difficult for him and oddly the maybe not even oddly the one series that he did do we had the least amount of trauma in doing it was the variety show which was the one he was least equipped to do. And I guess that makes sense. It wasn't as though in his mind he was gonna get judged negatively for just having fun wearing food on his head you know whereby if he worked on a you know, Brady episode that was artistically light or making no sense somehow was going to damage him and he couldn't is artistic sense wouldn't allow him to do it. That never really seemed to come up on the variety show, as he was already his suspension from reality in it, I guess it measured not to him so and it would have been nice if if Eve would have done it. Even at that time, though. made sense. She had just she was in production, I think on she hadn't started a little women yet, but she was nominated for an Emmy for who's done the portrait of a teen teenage hitchhiker. She had done a portrait of runway that she was highly regard Are they and so II was was sort of on an ascension and an arc that em, there was an opportunity to break away from the group and become a young Sally Field or whatever that was. She was in that arc at that time. And, and so getting her was impossible. And for a lot of years, she was supposed to be part of the family, but not because she didn't want to be part of the family. It's just that it didn't scratch her artistic itch. If we do. There's ever another Brady, I would imagine she will do it. She had a wonderful time doing the HGTV project, not that that was our scripted project. And that's the reason she said yes, was, you know, a documentary, if you will, on us, fixing Holmes up as a great interest of her so it was all natural for her to say yes, but I think that also brought her back into the fold enough so that if there is a scripted project in the future, she would consider it more seriously than she has in the past. I think since she did the Brady brides, she needed to put it away.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:58

Got it. So the very Brady renovation finally got a toilet in the Brady house

Christopher Knight 36:04

and to have a toilet couldn't be a house without a toilet couldn't get an occupancy permit.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:08

It was funny because it's always a running joke right with there's no they never showed a toilet in the Brady Bunch. But as as I was kind of reading something about them finally putting the toilet in for the renovation series. It was based on the reason there was no toilet it was it was network standards and practices that you couldn't show a toilet on a show before 10pm.

Christopher Knight 36:28

You not someone on the toilet, but you couldn't show it. Right? Yeah. So it was let's avoid even having one. It's not even in the bathroom so that you don't have to worry about picking up a corner of it. Like why are you going to have it if you're never going to shoot it? You're certainly not going to show anybody you know using it, but that they went as far as to say you couldn't even show one. So yeah, the set number had a toilet as a result now very Brady renovation, we're remaking the Brady set as a home and it is going to be a home it has to pass code ultimately, it's not a set anymore. And and so therefore it's going to have some bathrooms you can choose whether or not to shoot them or not. But it has to have more than one in this case toilet. So yeah, there was a toilet placed and I Yeah, none of us knew what color the Brady toilets were. And nothing that

Jeff Dwoskin 37:17

would be the funniest, funniest listing when it be the Brady house and then zero toilets,

Christopher Knight 37:21

no toilets, no toilet, bring your own.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:27

Oh my Sorry to interrupt, but I thought it might be a good time for you to take a bathroom break. And we're back with Christopher Knight. I was listening to your the Brady bros your podcast. I've been referencing listening to some episodes along the way we can we can tie it in with the end. But I was listening to the conversation you had with Robbie wrist. I had Robbie on the show as well. How did you feel when cousin Oliver that episode? It was a lot of Barry, because I think he had a lot of he had a lot of unresolved issues with Barry Williams.

Christopher Knight 37:57

Yeah, Barry is a great fan today. And he does admit that at the time, it was you know, treading on his ground. And I'm glad to know the barriers made that bridge bridged himself, you know to accept Robbie is ladies. He's accepting him. I liked it. I mean, frankly, I was a fan of the kids. I'm thinking and when I saw him show up. Yeah, that's all over character. It wasn't as though people talk to us long in advance, we're going to add another character just all of a sudden, we had another character. And he was in the next episode and the next episode and the next one, literally, I think the last six episodes, I'm not sure if I knew that that was going to be the case it was probably then discuss, he's going to do the remainder of the episodes of May the way that was was written in the script, his parents are doing some archeological dig, I guess, in South America or something. And so they needed to leave him with us. So you could envision it being however long or short. You personally subscribe to and your head. You know, I mean, I don't think anybody ever said he's gonna be a regular forever. From this point forward. None of us knew where the show could go after five seasons. Frankly, I figured we all had five year contracts. And they were all that doesn't mean it's the end of the series. But it can mean the end of you being on a series you can opt out, you don't have to come. And I was right there. I mean, I didn't see any room really, for me it became harder and harder to play the character in in the situations because it was really a kids show most when we watch this podcast now really clear the strength of the show is the second and third season and it starts losing unraveling to some degree as we're, you know, into the fourth and fifth because the same setups the same dynamics are not in play anymore, although they're being written as though they are. And I know that, you know, I can't finish high school the way I want to if we're doing a series, I would love to go take some lab classes and stuff where you actually have to be there. You can't just do it as a book thing. I envisioned myself going you know, off to university going to school. So you know, the fact is that it was possibly going to get picked up And I certainly would have been happy if it had we would have made do, but it didn't. And that was okay with I was kind of prepared for that. It was like, you know, I it's gonna go right or left and either way, I'm just didn't know if it was going to stay on the air, how that was going to play out what we're going to do, Greg wasn't going to be there, I didn't know anything about the Bob Reed thing, you know, that was not known by me at the time that you know, he was coming back, he wasn't coming back, none of that. So Robbie being on it made sense as well, because they need to have the younger kids to continue to write. Luckily, we none of us had to figure out how to how to shoehorn the show around adolescent and college, you know, entry level young adults, because it wasn't a show by young adults.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:46

So it's possible than that the fact that it ended after five seasons is what allowed it to have the longevity because if you think of a scenario where it continued to a season six, and Bob Reed leaves, right, they replace him with somebody else who suddenly there's another father, right, I think I read somewhere I can't remember his name, but the guy from was in Falcon Crest at one point, I kind of looked like him but like, but then that whole dynamic could have changed. And then later, maybe it didn't have like that, you know, those comebacks? Yeah, but that ended at just the right time.

Christopher Knight 41:17

Well, right. And I believe the reunions are a result of it having started there. And these five year tenure, reunions are sort of like what we're prone to do with our own high school class, let's get back on interval to see where we all are. Because, you know, families get back regularly, you know, over the holidays, even if they're not living in the same cities, you know, so if it's a, and we're sort of a family, but we're sort of like also a measure of somebody's life at a particular time, like your high school mates are. So it's interesting at intervals to tap in with them as you're getting older to see how everybody is handling the advancing years, and makes sense that we do reunion shows. But if we would have continued to do it to failure, I don't think we would have been asked to do those reunion shows we would just burned ourselves up. So you're right. I think that, in fact, because it only lasted the five seasons that allowed for the reunions, which has allowed for the continued sort of success. Now, the Brady Bunch is not successful, because we're doing reunions, we're doing reunions, because of the success of the Brady Bunch. The reason people continue to watch the Brady Bunch as adults is a lot to do with them also, then having children and wanting to connect their child to something that they themselves were connected to, as a child, can you

Jeff Dwoskin 42:39

think of any other show that has had this? I mean, there was a period in the 80s and 90s, where they do the I Dream of Jeannie reunion movie or something like that. But you know, there's a lot that was like a phase. This has been forever constant. Like there's always been something Brady's like you just mentioned the Brady renovation, that was just a few years ago, right? So there's always something Brady, there does

Christopher Knight 43:03

seem to be, I don't know if there really is I mean, Star Trek, where you're watching the original cast, right, right off into the ether. But I think it's because we are representative of the audience. We're a sort of quintessential family. And everyone thinks it's interesting, everyone thinks of themselves as a Brady family, no matter how closely their family was to the Brady's or not, not everybody, but let's just say a good portion of the populace. And there's a connectivity to each other, to their memories through the show. So it's really we benefit from the fact that we latched or They latched on to us as children. And you know, if somebody asks you what happened when you were what happened in the year, you know, 1988, kind of grab for that one, it's like, but if you asked what somebody when they were seven, those memories are a lot easier to grab, when you were four, when you're eight, they're distant, but they're more distinct than the memories of when you were 33. Like, can you distinguish when you were 33, from when you were 34? Not much, but you can distinguish when you were four, and you were five, or five, and six, six, and seven, those are distinct, and there has to be something in that, that had has created this path toward this regeneration, this tickling of your memory. We are sort of like when you tell kids stories, when you get together with a friend you hadn't seen in 20 years. And you talk about those times on the block. You know, You're reliving a past, you know, and a feeling that you had in childhood is that feeling you know, I mean, the last time before you had responsibility,

Jeff Dwoskin 44:44

the Brady Bunch, the ultimate nostalgia trigger, right? It's like, Yeah,

Christopher Knight 44:49

I think it is exactly.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:51

I let me play your podcast real quick. So if you want to relive the Brady Bunch, Barry Williams and Christopher Knight have an amazing podcast called The Real Brady bros. In catch at anywhere where you can catch podcasts, they're deep into that they have cool Q and A's, they go into deep dives into episodes, all that kind of good stuff. I appreciate you spending all this time with me. I have one final question, if you have time for one final question is, what is your favorite Brady Bunch thing that sort of just in the wild example, like when the X Files recreated the entire set for one of their episodes where you're watching it, or reference that none of the Brady's are, I don't mean like when you're in the 70 show, and you maybe do a wink, like something where you're watching, like, oh, they just referenced the Brady Bunch, they just did this, if you had been watching it, like, Oh, that was awesome.

Christopher Knight 45:35

Recently, one division. It wasn't specific, but she's playing television for a period of time, right? Very much starts off like let's Lucy and or the Dick Van Dyke kind of show. And then it morphs into something a little bit more modern, which follows that arc into the 70s. And very much like the Brady's and then it becomes very clear that that's exactly what it is, with the swing set in the backyard. I thought, you know, that's, that's pretty cool. And be enabled for that. And through COVID, it became clear that everybody, the using of zoom in boxes, everybody became Brady's the amount of referencing that people made of that symbol, it has to be because if I'm on it with others, it already reminding them of Brady, and then we're in boxes. And so what I'm hearing it all the time through zoom, then we should have patented or trademarked.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:30

That's awesome. Do I talk about your furniture?

Christopher Knight 46:32

Let's talk about the furniture. Yeah, I mean, so that was, you know, this is a, I got into business, I left the entertainment industry in my 30s. I didn't intend to completely leave it. But I got involved in being an executive in an AI tech company and the computer industry in the early arc of the personal computer, which was all consuming, which was fine. For me, I was looking for something all consuming. But that also would mean that I couldn't then pursue being an actor, and then found myself, you know, just sort of not being not being available for anything, and certainly not having time to go on interviews. And that would be fine. And that lasted almost 20 years. But with that I you know, I got to an appreciation for and enough success in life that allowed for the white picket fence, which has been this metaphor for me about stability and predictability that I never felt was possible. In being an actor. There's too much feasting, and famine. Literally, it's unaccountable and unpredictable. And I saw what that can do when one is trying to do family was aiming for that, and found it in business and high tech. So when I then retired from high tech, Iran, 2002 wasn't retiring per se, but it was to leave for a while rest my self from those responsibilities. Let's see what's left in or available still in the entertainment industry. And of course, then got started back up through the reality side of things and new experiences, and had a great new right in front of the camera again. But that didn't mean that I wanted to leave like I did the first time leaving entertainment, I didn't want to leave business, I was always looking for a way to blend the two, I do I have an entertainment in a career simultaneous to having a business career. And the ultimate expression of that is Christopher Knight home, which was an idea that an old business partner of mine came to me with. And it had to do with furnishings. And not that I had a burning desire to make furniture designed furniture, filled people's homes with furnishings. It was an effort, a business effort that was completely different than it than purposes of the high tech. To me also, it's a practical art. If you need something, it's got to it should fit that need. And as the reason I was being approached by old business partners was because I had developed over the years, from my luck of the draw, you know, being a Brady this and I hadn't destroyed this trustworthiness, because as a Brady, you're a member, literally of everyone's family thought to be treated like I am. And there's a trust that goes along with that. And that's what this need. This was an internet effort. This was a marketing effort on the internet of furniture. And that had not yet really come to full realization at the time we were starting Christopher Knight home, which was back in 2012. It didn't expect the kind of success that we ultimately had. And we can we continue to have let's like another one of those paths. I wandered down and it was this wonderful experience. And I'm very grateful that I said yes, and took a leap of faith. And we find ourselves now one of the leaders in the marketplace. It just wonderful, no expectations and then it's blown up to be quite successful. And that, you know, my fear was that too I'm, you know, part of a cog in a greater effort that they need to make good on the promise stead I'm on the front end making because that could have really caused difficulty for me. And they did you know, we have a company that is not trying to make heirloom furnishings, we're making furnishings that are practical have a life expectancy based on the dollars you're spending for it. And we're very, very aggressively priced furnishings that fill a need.

Jeff Dwoskin 50:22

It's beautiful stuff. They have everyone listening, it's Christopher Knight brands.com. It's kind of cool, though, right? You grew up as a child actor kind of giving people this idea of of home and family. And now you've created a company that helps people create a nice home. So it's kind of cool.

Christopher Knight 50:38

I don't even think I mean, other than the fact that logo that we created for Chris right home is formidable force. And of course that comes from that's a sort of a red herring from the horse. It's under the stairs, that the Brady home is a character in the show. And it represented sort of a house that everyone was comfortable in and wanted to live in. And I'm associated with that and that everyone wants their home to be a place like the Brady home, it seems not in look, but in feeling that that just wasn't even something that was on my radar screen as another reason for it being when it was, I felt I was needing to be more prepared for people saying what are you doing first, and people just jumped to the conclusion. It's because of the Brady home. And then we do the HGTV Pro project, which has got nothing to do with Christopher Knight home, but I'm already camped out sort of in the home improvement space through furniture and design, practical interior design. You know, people now look at me sort of as an expert, which I'm not but I can advise them on making certain they don't overspend.

Jeff Dwoskin 51:44

I think it's awesome. So it's very cool. I like in your background. You got a little Brady Bunch. TV novelty and looks like a Funko

Christopher Knight 51:51

I got a bunch of stuff. Somebody sent me I got a TQ that's not a real Tiki back there. You know, somebody did a bowling pin for me right there behind me like the Brady got my pop doll.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:01

You got lots of cool stuff off to have you back we'll do a tiger. The family dog deep dive we'll

Christopher Knight 52:07

do can do that. All the pets all the animals on the radio, which I mean, we have to have had at least a dozen different animal shows at this point. I think maybe 10 Well,

Jeff Dwoskin 52:18

that's that deserves an episode of Real Brady burrows. Well, thank you so much. It was fun hanging out with you. It was a gas it we'll have to do it again. All right, everyone. That was the amazing Christopher Knight Theater Brady when it's time to change all jobs and applesauce all the classics right here. That was fun. You can check out Christopher knights amazing furniture at Christopher Knight brands.com links in the show notes to all Christopher's amazing stuff. Hope you enjoyed this trip down Brady memory lane. I had a great time. Well, it's over though I can't believe it. One more huge thank you to my guests, Christopher Knight, and of course, a giant thank you to all of you for coming back week after week. I can't thank you enough. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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