#222 American Idol’s William Hung is a Champion By Choice

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:29

All right, Megan, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every weekend. This week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 222 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be a bang and classic conversation. Not just any bang and She Bangs William honks here. That's right rose to fame in 2004, auditioning for American Idol singing their Ricky Martin hit song. She Bangs. We're getting the whole scoop from William and just a few seconds. And in the last few seconds. Just a quick reminder, if you missed last week's episode with Tom Merritt, it is an amazing chat on technology. We geek out a lot. It's a lot of fun. It's a great conversation. Do not miss it. But the thing not to miss right now is my conversation with William Hung, author of champion by choice motivational speaker, you loved him on American Idol. We're going deep into the story, uncovering all the good and then covering all the negatives of sudden fame. You're gonna love my conversation with William Hung. Enjoy. All right, everyone, I'm excited to introduce you to my next guest singer motivational and TEDx speaker, professional poker player loved him on American Idol singing She Bangs by Ricky Martin, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show, William hog.

William Hung 2:06

Hey, everyone. Thanks for having me,

Jeff Dwoskin 2:09

William. So glad to have you on the show. I usually kind of try to go a little linear, but I want to jump into the future and then we'll come back. So I mean, I obviously I know you from your American Idol fame. I was there. I was watching from my living room. What I want to know is flash forward from that. And then we'll go back. What was it like to actually sing with Ricky Martin, you got to actually get on stage with Ricky Martin. I thought that was one of the coolest end caps to this story. It was just had that happen.

William Hung 2:41

Wow, it was a dream come true. Because when I first auditioned for American Idol, I didn't expect anything. I just thought like, go home like everybody else. I go back to normal life. And that was that. And then my audition somehow went viral. And Ricky Martin took notice he mentioned that he wanted to perform with me multiple times throughout the years. But it finally happened in 2018. The way it happened, it was like he mentioned me again, on the radio. I didn't even catch that my one of my friends call me right away. And she said, Well, you gotta go call the radio station, because I heard this morning. And then I got in touch with Ricky Marcus manager. And then he finally happened.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:20

I saw that the video on your Instagram? Yes. I mean, what was I mean? How surreal was it just to be up there? Like actually singing with them? And did you get to hang out with them before? Or after? Or was it just kind of you went on stage and did your thing with Ricky and then

William Hung 3:37

I got to meet Ricky, before we I performed with my one of my good friends. And he's so down to earth. He's so humble. Very nice, genuine guy.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:49

Did he tell you what it meant to him on any level, like, just added popularity?

William Hung 3:55

He mentioned something about he appreciate how I you know, like, added popularity to a song you blew

Jeff Dwoskin 4:03

it up? He did a good job with it also, but like Yeah, I mean, you gave it a life that he probably never would have realized was that is really cool. William, when was the audition for American Idol. Before that, and I know you you want a talent show and you can talk about that. And what was your connection to singing or wanting to be an entertainer before all this American Idol craziness happened?

William Hung 4:34

My parents took me to karaoke since I was 10 years old in Hong Kong, and then I fell in love with it. And that's why I took the chance in school when there was a talent show. To my surprise, I won. And that gave me the confidence to audition for American Idol.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:52

How did you end up picking Ricky Martin She Bangs amongst all the songs out there to do at your talent show.

William Hung 4:59

I thought That song was unique, like his song. It was Latin. It was a good party song. I enjoyed it. I feel sing it and it feels great with my friends. And that's why I picked

Jeff Dwoskin 5:12

it. You go to the talent show you win the talent show. And how did you discover the American Idol audition?

William Hung 5:20

I heard it on the news a few days after I won the talent show.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:24

Okay, so you're on a high. Yeah, just want to do Joe. And then yeah, and then you get wind. That American Idol is not too far from you. Right? The auditions were pretty close to you were and now you're in LA at this point. I was in San Francisco, San Francisco. Okay. You're in San Francisco and the auditions. Were pretty close. Okay, I'm in San Francisco. So talk to me about like the process, not the Randy Paul audition just yet. The whole kind of getting in there. Because there's 1000s of people. Do they see everyone that show up to that? Or do they only take certain amount? Like, how many do they actually filter through?

William Hung 6:04

The way it works is that everybody can show up, and then the staff will screen and then they will decide that most people will go home after about 15 seconds. That's it. I thought I would go home as well. But somehow the staff they liked me they let me through. And I'll never forget. She was a current producer. Now her name one of the Her name is Megan wall flick at the time she worked and the team, the staff and she led me through I was I was like, so surprised. I had to thank her because if it wasn't for her that nothing else would have happened.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:38

So when you're the pre auditions before the one we saw on TV, right? The one year though, with Megan, that was round one and you didn't sing She Bangs for that I read your book. So I know. Ah, all right. So this is good. So you actually saying a Phil Collins song for?

William Hung 6:57

Yes. It's called two worlds. And then she said like what other songs do I know? I told her she bags because I want this talent show in school? And she said yes, you should totally pick that song. And then I want you to dress a lot better for next day. Because at the time I was wearing these casual black T shirt, I wasn't expecting anything. But But when when when she said, you know, she wants me to come back the next day at the hotel was like, Oh, my goodness, this could be serious. And I took it like that,

Jeff Dwoskin 7:26

right? Because at this point, it's gone from like 3000. And then only like 180 made it to round two, which you just Yes. And then what like 100 made it from round two to two. Round three. I took around to you saying she banks.

William Hung 7:40

Yes. It was in front of the producers. And then I just thought like, wow, they let me through again. I was so lucky. And then eventually I got to see Randy Paul and Simon.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:50

That's right. That's the this is the audition that we all know you from right. So when you auditioned for Randy, well, let me go back for a second. So there's footage of you, you know, waiting to come in and stuff like that. Did they do any kind of free stuff? Did they talk to you? Do they find out your background? Oh, he's from Hong Kong? He moved to the United States? Yes. Like, how much did they know about you? Before you walked in? In front of Randy, Paula and Simon?

William Hung 8:19

They didn't know that much about me. They know that I was from Hong Kong. I was a college student. I liked karaoke since I was young. Based. Basically why I told you, and that's about it. And then they asked me why I think I deserve a chance at American Idol. I said that. No, everyone does deserve a chance to try. You never know.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:44

The producers. Megan that you mentioned some of the people that got a chance to sing did not get many words out of their mouths before they were caught and sent home. Right? Yeah, round one and round two. They definitely had their eye on you. Yes, they did. They wanted you to see. Randy Paula and Simon right. Yeah. All right. So now you're in front of Randy, Paula and Simon. So this season is which season? Is this of American Idol? Season Three, season three. Okay, so, so this is still early on. And then you're auditioning. You gave it your obviously from the video and I've watched it we got I saw originally and I've seen it again recently. I mean, you're given your all your your hearts in this. It's obvious. So Paula maintains a smile. Randy's drive laughing behind a sheet of paper. And Simon wants to basically be anywhere but they're right. Yeah. So you sang for a bit. I mean, they let you go for a while. So while Randy's kind of laughing and, you know, how did you kind of just maintain your composure during that moment? I mean, because it's gotta be intimidating. Just being in front of those three anyway.

William Hung 9:53

Yeah, my knees were shaking. I had butterflies in my stomach. And that's why my movements were so good. Erkki on TV. He was like doing a song but exercise is not my proudest moment.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:06

Well, I mean, I'm not a mover either, so I I thought you're doing great. My wife is a dancer. I'm not a dancer. She calls me Yeah. She says, I'm a cheer dancer like I can I can move if I don't. I don't have to, like, get my legs involved. I can I can do it. You put your whole body into it, you put your whole body. Alright, so you put your you've skipped school to be here. You didn't even tell your mom, you were coming, right? No, I read in your book. But part of why you did it was to make your mom proud. Right? Yeah. What drove that piece of it? Like what was what was the story behind that?

William Hung 10:44

Well, I was struggling with academics. I was about to get flunked out of school. I thought I need to try something different. And that's why I took a chance.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:53

So in your head when you're kind of thinking, Alright, I'm going to do this for my parents. I'm not telling them what were you hoping they would just see on TV and like,

William Hung 11:01

I was hoping that I either make it to Hollywood, and then I tell my parents, or I don't make it and then nobody has to know about it.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:11

Okay, so that part two almost happened probably for a lot of people part two have a point nine nine. But not William has played a little different. What was it like actually being there with Simon kind of just cuz I mean, that was his role on the show was the not nice guy, the mean judge, but he was he was he was very cruel to us. I mean, it was, you know, worst audition grotesque. He is like, I mean, you handled it well, for it bouncing off you, but like, what was going through your mind at that time? And like, do you even did you even remember that moment? Or was it like, so surreal? Like later you watch the video, and you're like,

William Hung 11:50

Oh, I remember. I remember that. Every moment of that audition, because that was like a life changing moment. It was like a moment, I could never go back. I felt like at the time, I was like, disappointed when I when they finally stopped me. I know. I knew I wasn't gonna make it once the way that we act, especially Randy and Simon crossing his arms don't want to be there. Yeah, of course, I know. I'm not gonna make it. Well, I thought the most important decision was how I wanted to respond. I thought about this. I saw how many people would get angry and upset after the judges say you're no good. You're terrible. Go home. I felt I didn't need to do that. I wanted to stay positive and set a new example. You were

Jeff Dwoskin 12:37

positive. Paula made a point of that very clearly. in it. Okay, so now you leave this audition obviously, probably had to been a little upset. It just, you know, you're not going to Hollywood that dreams over at this moment in time, right? The dream? So how did you feel coming out of there? You know, when you see other people, you know, waiting to go in? Or who'd also finished and maybe told they weren't going What was your plan at that moment? Like what was going through your head just after that audition,

William Hung 13:06

my plan is to go home, pretend nothing happened. And then go go back to my studies. Because what people don't know is that there was a four month window between the original audition and when they aired the audition on TV. Oh, I

Jeff Dwoskin 13:20

know that, William. That's where we're going next. That's why That's why I was curious. Like, we had that moment. Like alright, you. So you had packed it away. It was done. Mom and Dad are never going to find out. No one's going to probably find out except maybe wherever you might have told that you were going to be there. Yeah. And frankly, you could have just said anyone. Okay. Right. Yeah. All right. So four months later, yes. Your audition is part of the promo for the new season coming back the audition section of the season. Yes. Talk me through that.

William Hung 13:54

Well, I was a bit worried. Why do you want to use me as the promo video?

Jeff Dwoskin 14:02

Sorry to interrupt you to take a quick break. I want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my compelling story with William Hung are about to explore the negative side of sudden fame. And we're back.

William Hung 14:21

I wasn't sure what to make of it at the time. But I still felt like maybe nothing would happen. It's like, Yeah, I'm sure I think that I'm not the only person that responded that way. I was like, Wait a minute. I want it's not that big of a deal. And then the night happens when they aired the audition on TV. Then like hundreds of emails suddenly came to my inbox. And then people that email me were from Entertainment Tonight. Ryan Seacrest show, Ellen DeGeneres I was like, what? Right away and then I saw myself on the news right? I After the audition, and then the news anchor John Deere, it's that really um, hyung is the worst singer ever. Oh my goodness, that hurts because I was expecting Simon to be the mean guy. So I didn't take that wasn't very hard. But when someone else does outside looking in being so harsh like that, Oh, ouch. Yeah, I just don't know, I had I had to process everything. There's so much going on. That is,

Jeff Dwoskin 15:26

I mean, that's a great point that you bring up when Simon does it, you know, he's a character and that's you went in as a character also on the show, meaning just an audition or so you know, there's gonna be some kind of interaction that way. This newscast or right now that's just the public. A guy with a big pulpit. The news? Yeah. And now he's calling you the worst ever? Yeah. Between the promo and actually airing on the show? Did you start to do interviews prior to that? Or did it sort of pick up once they aired that episode after the air the episode? So after the air now, but now you're becoming kind of like a cult hero, right? I mean, it's like, Well, John thought you're the worst ever. That's what endear you also. And you're right to everyone else, right. I mean, that was just like, because you in a way represented everyone, right? Who just who is never gonna make it but said, but as American Idol, but said, You know what? I'm doing this. This is going out there. And I'm gonna let you know, I'm gonna take that chance, which I think a lot of people have resonated with right now. It's just Yeah. Plus, it's, it's a great song and you crushed it. Alright, so talk to me about meeting Ellen DeGeneres.

William Hung 16:43

Wow. It was also very surreal. At the time, I couldn't believe I got to shake hands with her. And I remember, I didn't like shake your bump on her show. That was so much fun. Yes. He wasn't my own unique style. If we measure that by any traditional standards, I don't think I did. Right. Good. But I like you're sad. I didn't care. Because in a way, it's like you're the is one. Have fun. And be myself.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:15

Yeah. I mean, you went for it. In your book. You say everyone hits rock bottom. People don't normally do it on national television. But that's how I did it. But do you really feel there? Was that rock bottom? Or do you feel being on this podcast is rock bottom?

William Hung 17:31

No. I had other block volumes in my life. Besides the entertainment career, we know whether it's marrying the wrong girl afterwards, divorcing tries or you know, losing a bunch of my money that I earned in the stock market? There. I have many rock ball rock bottoms. Besides that one,

Jeff Dwoskin 17:51

do you really consider that a rock bottom? Because that's what sort of like, that's why we're talking now. That's why you got on Ellen DeGeneres. Like without that moment without you going for it. You know that without that courageous audition? You know, it's that's sort of what was sort of like the first step towards all this other stuff, right?

William Hung 18:10

Yeah, I feel in life, everything happens for a reason. So I'm a big believer in creating your own luck, but also sharing your version of your story, because so many people want to make up other versions of my story, where it's like, I don't deserve to be in the business. I'm terrible at singing, dancing, I portray stereotypes, and other forms of criticism. But to me, I look at it as like, wow. And I have my fans, and those are the people I'm most grateful for. Because without them, I wouldn't be able to stay so strong. Yeah, it's,

Jeff Dwoskin 18:47

it's interesting. You mentioned in your book that people thought you potentially were perpetuating certain Asian stereotypes and that one of your pastors even told you to kind of let it go. Don't make things worse. How did you internalize and deal with all that? I mean, because it's like you said, it's just like this other John guy from the news. It's like, this is now outside of the playground of American Idol. This is real life kind of casting stones.

William Hung 19:13

Yeah, well, I had a choice. It wasn't it was a difficult choice, because I either go out there and be part of that crazy momentum or whatever you call it. It's I just imagine everybody is talking about you. You like both negative and positive. Like where do you want to be in that conversation? Like yes, you could hide yourself behind a room. You know, baby, where am I don't talk to anybody for a while maybe people will forget about it. I had that choice, but that choice seems terrible. Because if I look at the long term, yeah, the money was attractive, but then it's not the only factor. It was because I don't want to be remembered the wrong way. Yes. You know what I did? I cannot take back when I do the audition for better or for worse, but I feel that I want to at least you know, have my voice out there.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:10

Ya know, I think it's great. I tell the story. I joke around the what's the game? Are you saying? Like rock star you know, like,

William Hung 20:20

yeah, rock star heroes. I'm

Jeff Dwoskin 20:22

like, Yeah, rock sorry are like my friends would say, Jeff, you're not invited anymore. Like, why goes because you're you're making fun of us. Like how am I making fun of you? The way you're singing? Because I can't sing. I can't sing. And I'm like, That's not me make fun of you. That's just me. So I hear you. I wish I I wish I could sing. I wish I could get that voice. Alright, so this leads though to a lot you did. There was so much the talent show. I read your book. They had your back. Yes. Clark Kerr dorms.

William Hung 20:53

Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:54

So they bring you back. They give you a lifetime achievement award.

William Hung 20:58

Wow, you really beat your homework.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:02

I don't mess around. What was that a certificate? Or was it was it? Yeah. And do you have that framed? I would have that frame.

William Hung 21:10

I know. I had to find it. It's so crazy.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:13

So I so you, you're dancing with Alan, you're getting lifetime achievement awards. You're doing all this kind of good stuff. And then you actually got a record deal out of this to write catch records? I did? Yes. Alright, so they they hit you up with a good 25 grand. So what was? What was the whole process of kind of making your first album because you've made three?

William Hung 21:35

Yeah, so the process was to record as many cover songs as quickly as possible. I feel original songs. Put it out there before they they could find American Idol winner. That was the process for that first album.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:51

Okay, so they're trying to catch records is like I we got the hottest guy from American Idol. He's not even a winner. He's not even in the show anymore. He was one episode. And what we're gonna take advantage was caught records. Were they connected with American Idol or not? Or they just saw this opportunity.

William Hung 22:10

They saw the opportunity, and they really capitalize on it somehow. I don't know how this happened. But that first album became the number one independent album on Billboard's

Jeff Dwoskin 22:20

I had that album I had the album. Yeah, I remember meeting my friend, Mike White listening to it at work. So on this, what are some of your favorite? Do you have any personal favorites? So you got I believe I can fly hotel. Hotel Kevin.

William Hung 22:37

Came through the lock tonight YMCA, two worlds,

Jeff Dwoskin 22:41

which was your original song? Yeah, that was a nice homage there and then you had a couple Elton John song, YMCA and shake your BonBon another Yes. Another Ricky mine. So that's all like hundreds of 1000s Your number one like you said, and then you tour with that? Like what's How did you how did you promote the album and

William Hung 23:03

by record company? Yes. They do set up the some tours, some promotions. And then I also got invited a lot to big events commercials. It was crazy. Everything went viral at the same time.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:19

Is that how you're taking advantage it? What did you did you have somebody giving you advice and coaching you at this time?

William Hung 23:26

The only person that wanted to be my agent. He wanted the 40% on my lifetime earnings. Even though I was a kid. I knew that was a bad deal. So no, no way. And then my mom was worried about me. So she became my manager.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:41

Okay, all right. So I so what did you do to kind of capitalize you said you did events? Did I read correctly? You You were making 1020 grand shows? You would you perform live and get like 1020 grand just performed? Yeah, that's right. This is during that when they're in the heyday of those? Yeah, that's right. Okay, so you're alright, so you're taking you're you're doing you're doing it? That's, yeah, that's exciting. I don't I don't I don't make that much to sing two songs now. Alright, so that's exciting. And then I think you did a second album.

William Hung 24:16

Yes. hung on the holidays, which is possibly one

Jeff Dwoskin 24:19

of the greatest names it could also it would also be a great name for a porno Yeah, but I mean, well, I'm just scan and then and then a third one. Miracle happy summer. So this is and then like you said you're doing commercials at this time as well. So you're you're in like hot demand. You're in hot demand, right? You're doing x.com Game Show Network? Att how was that? Is that like, are you just and then you were in a movie? Yeah, low budget Hong Kong period comedy called Where is mama's boy? Alright, so this is On so you're just i You still at school now or did you kind of leave school for a while, and you're kind of just live in the fame?

William Hung 25:07

I left school and then I eventually returned to finish school about four or five years later.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:13

Okay, so what was it like just walking down? Did everyone recognize you?

William Hung 25:17

Yeah, the people still there. They still want the pictures and autograph at that. At that time. It was not as crazy after the first four or five years, but I still recognize a lot.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:29

But for for four or five years, though, it was pretty intense with Yeah. Okay. Do you have like any any, like fan encounters that would stand out? Or were they everyone pretty chill and cool with? Yeah.

William Hung 25:45

There were some pretty crazy fans. There were some random ladies holding signs and even asking me out to get married with them, even though I had no idea who they were.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:56

Well, that's the price of fame, William. That's why I'm doing this podcast. I hope people get nervous. Was it during this time that you you mentioned you were married a couple of times? And was it was some of that in the rush of fame? Like that those kind of came and went or was was that after?

William Hung 26:17

It was after the the initial fame. At the time when that when I was at the peak of my career. I didn't want to marry anybody because I didn't know them. I wanted to focus on my business. And that's why I turned down all the offers,

Jeff Dwoskin 26:34

which offers eternity down. No.

William Hung 26:37

No, I mean, I mean, the marriage. Oh,

Jeff Dwoskin 26:39

marriage offers, right. Okay. Yeah. All right. You said business I got I got confused for one seconds. But now I'm back. I'm back. Hi. So you played at the Rose Bowl? You're saying it the Rose Bowl? Yes. This is in front of 60,000 people? Yeah, it's

William Hung 26:53

the biggest crowd. I haven't performed that.

Jeff Dwoskin 26:55

I mean, that's and you are on stage with Are you shared a stage with black IPs? And Janet Jackson?

William Hung 27:00

Yes. Crazy.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:02

Did you get to meet them?

William Hung 27:04

I met Maroon? Maroon Five.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:06

I remember Maroon Five? Did they know who you were? Yes. They

William Hung 27:09

had some idea.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:10

That was so it was kind of surreal when like a super group like, oh, there's William Hung. Yeah, I

William Hung 27:15

know. Wow.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:17

That's pretty cool. Right? I mean, that's Yeah. That's pretty insane. That's really, really cool, actually. Alright, so Alright, so you have your albums, you do this. So as what was it, like kind of stuff kind of kind of teetering out about it? Like you said, at the end of that four or five years? Was it an easy transition for you? Or was that a hard transition to go from the burst of popularity to kind of, you know, it kind of weaning a little bit relatively

William Hung 27:45

easy for me because I knew that I, you know, and for entertainment career, you're not always going to be at the peak, you know, you're not going to have always have that crazy demand when everybody wants you. And yeah, it's okay. Nothing wrong with going back to normal life relaxing a bit. So I was expecting it anytime after the first few years.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:11

Okay, well, sometimes it's hard, right? I imagine because it's like, I'm sure you get asked this a lot, because then people will start wanting to chase that feeling right? And try. And if it doesn't come back, I mean, so that's good. And you had your parents and your mom to probably Yeah, kind of work you through it. So you know, in terms of American Idol, right. So after you became so popular on American Idol from them, showing your audition and Simon hating it and all that kind of stuff, it seemed that in future seasons, they were always trying to find the next William hug. Did you? Did you get a feel for that? Like they would try to show some of the bad auditions to see if someone else would spark and no one really ever sparked? Like you? Did you kind of have for that?

William Hung 28:59

Yeah, perhaps I'm not sure. Because that's it's been that their formula since the beginning. They wanted to have that concept of showing some good and bad auditions. And then like, basically the extreme ends of good and bad auditions. So yeah, I mean, I feel like there were people who may be trying to copy what I did, but you can't really copy because we, you know, yes, you can have you can have the same mindset and attitude in your life. But you cannot copy that moment and that timing, right.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:34

But at times, I felt like after after you shot to fame. They're like, Oh, maybe this is what we should maybe we should not balance it anymore. And maybe we should. I felt like they tried to skew it towards the ones that they felt didn't go well because people wanted that and then but nobody, they just never because they're like this is because you were probably great for them. Right? You probably made the show. As you were popular. You were synonymous with the show. Oh, so yeah, that kind of kept American Idol hot as well. And they probably wanted to kind of recapture that because you can't do that with someone who's great, because those are the ones that are gonna go through the whole seasons and stuff. Yeah. And even so, you know, I mean, alright, so Oh, let's I want to talk about because my friend Maddie is his his favorite thing you did was your guest spot on Arrested Development, which is one of my favorite shows of all time. Oh, and so talk to him. What was that? Like? So the episode you were on was mock trial with Judge Reinhold? Yes. And you were the leader of the band William Hung and the hung jury. Yes. So what was it like just being on that set? And did you get to to meet any of the arrested development folks? Or that was that a fun time?

William Hung 30:55

It was okay. I mean, I thought Sackman was fun. It's always a cool throwback moment, a cool memory, but it's not that much behind the scenes, anything notable.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:06

Now, just you didn't get to hang with Jason Bateman or anything like that. I

William Hung 31:09

don't remember that very well, besides the singing part is ever

Jeff Dwoskin 31:13

the thing about hung jury? All right. That's all okay. Well, it was still a fun thing to watch. Yeah. And then you have a book out now as well championed by choice. And I know you do motivational speaking as well. So how did you make the decision to kind of pivot in that direction? And, you know, how was it? What was the process of writing the book? What do you hope people get out of the book?

William Hung 31:40

Well, we start with the speaking first speaking came many years later, after my original audition was about five years ago, six years ago, that maybe like I wanted to try something different besides the singing, performing, because I already know that my talent is not the actual singing and dancing, even though it's very entertaining. So so that's why you know about my one of my friends, she said, maybe you can try to combine that with sharing your story on stage. And that's why I did I started small, I built up the business from the ground up, and it's still like a roller coaster, sometimes I get those opportunities, but you don't, you don't really know when you will get one. So that's where it's up. And that's okay.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:29

Sorry to interrupt, have to take a quick break. And we're back with William Hung about to dive into the motivations behind writing a book, and we're back.

William Hung 32:39

And then for the book, I wanted to leave a legacy. Now that's really my intention. I don't didn't expect to make a lot of money doing it. I just I want to keep my story true to what it was. I did self publish, I got some help at attain ghost writing, by the end of the day that, you know, that was not, you know, if you try to make money, that's not that's, that's not what he wanted me doing. Let's put it that way. But because because if you want to make money, maybe you maybe you have to do market research. You want to get like people to like, oh, do they like this story? Do I like this topic, like I would approach it very differently. But my goal is not to worry about that. My goal was to make sure that I told the story I wanted to share. And then people read the book, they liked the book. So I don't regret it. And the main message is that no matter what your circumstances are, you have that choice to become a champion in life.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:34

Yeah, I mean, the book is full of great motivational mantras, you know, I think I read my message for you is not simply that you can succeed despite your failures, but that you can succeed because of your failures. Yeah. And it was interesting when we were talking earlier about, you know, the negativity that came not from Simon, but from the world itself. You know, he's, you know, John from the news or Yeah, Joe Rogan's, or this, you know, pastures pasture, you know, about the stereotypes. But you had a great quote that I wrote down, I really liked it a lot. It's not what they say, it's what you hear. And I thought that was a great quote of yours. I can't remember if that was from your TEDx. And I grabbed that. Yes, it was okay. And so I just talk about that sentence for a second. Because I think that's, that's the message behind that quote, I think is very impactful.

William Hung 34:25

Everybody can say what they want to say they, they are entitled to their own opinion is, so you only have control over how you react and respond.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:36

Exactly. People can be cruel, but you have to kind of choose how you react to things. Yeah, it's a great message. So and then, because your story is just full of a lot of cool twists and turns poker. Are you a professional poker player now? Or is that?

William Hung 34:53

Yeah, even though I put it in the backburner at the moment I still consider myself professional poker player because the way I do it, the way I set the bar is every time I go out to play with you, I'm going to I'm going to take your money. I like like, I would study up all the books, courses online, and how to become better at the at that game. And something this is something that I don't talk about at every interview. But since you brought it up, here's how my journey went with poker. I started playing poker as a hobby. After the American Idol audition, I just thought like, well, you know, it's kind of boring to do the same thing over and over again. So I wanted something different for many, many years. That was a hobby. But about five years ago, when, you know, I was struggling financially after my divorces, after things didn't go well, in my life, I don't want to just hide behind my cubicle. And then you know, just speaking and performing, I couldn't count on that. Because like I said, sometimes I get a lot, sometimes I get nothing. So I have to make my own luck. And that's why I did, it was very difficult, because I was putting in a day job at the time. So doing studying and playing poker is like another full time job. And that's like, it was five part years before I earn enough money to quit my job.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:20

Well, I respect the dedication and the focus. I wish I've tried to play poker and I, I It's amazing to me how people will play and they'll be like, you've got to Queens and Mike, how do you know I have to yell or whatever it is, right? It's a thing. But like watching poker, have you been in the World Series of Poker? Or is that something you want to do?

William Hung 36:40

I did it before I tried a couple. What may event one time, I made a two but nothing more than that. I that was it. Because that was the year I actually, you know, like, I wouldn't want to put up 10,000 1000 My own money. But that year I got like, Wow, so many fans and other professional poker players, they wanted to support me. They wanted to give me that chance. So I went for it.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:04

That's awesome. That is really cool. When you think back of like all the TV shows you've been on or interviewed or anything like that. What What to you is the one that when someone asks you go this was a highlight. This was one of my favorite.

William Hung 37:15

What do you mean? You mean,

Jeff Dwoskin 37:17

I gotta be like, Oh, I love being on Allen. Like when I was on Ellen, that was the bass, you know, because you were on Jimmy Kimmel, you've been with interviewed by Ryan Seacrest. Is there any? Is there any one of them? That kind of just Yeah, it was just like I felt that I loved I loved that experience. Larry King, any of them?

William Hung 37:34

is, this is no way for me to put it in what to just one. One moment. Is everything together. Yes. I like Alan. I like Jay Leno. Teammate Kimo. I also like the most recent American Idol reunion with Ryan Seacrest, and other former contestants. So it was all those wonderful moments together.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:55

Yeah, let's talk about that. So you you've been back to American Idol, at least twice. But most recently, the 20th anniversary? Where Yes, he's saying She Bangs again and Ryan Seacrest called you a legend said your name is synonymous with American Idol. So how? How did that feel? Like just to be back there?

William Hung 38:15

I feel that it was an honor. Yeah, it was it was a it was so surreal. Because after so many years, maybe like, who knows? Right? Maybe I don't get another chance. I don't get another shot at this. Who knows. But like, I'm so like, blessed and grateful for that chance. And then now I can, you know, have them will continue to have that momentum. And then it's like, what I tell everybody is like, it's what you make of the opportunity. And for me, I wanted to make something positive. I want to use it the right way.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:48

Yeah. Had you performed on the American Idol stage prior one time before the 20th anniversary? Or was that the first time actually on stage? Oh, I did it multiple times. Multiple times. Okay. In the 20th, though, when in watching the clip. I don't think anyone was more excited to see you then Katy Perry's that would put a flutter in my heart. But was it cool? Like because now you're in front of like Katy Perry and vinyl. Yes. Yes. And then was a cool kind of hanging out with Ryan Seacrest for a moment there?

William Hung 39:22

Yes, of course.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:23

That's awesome. You didn't have to worry about dealing with Simon right. So no, he's been long he's off and America's Got Talent or something. So what's so what's your focus now? What's your What are you focused on right now?

William Hung 39:36

Well, I want to continue doing speaking and performing. I also taking on a few projects that's coming up later this year. I'm not ready to share details yet but you know, they all aligned with ambition to help people use their voice so that they can find their freedom. That's the main my main purpose couple of projects I could share Right now is that I do plan to start my new podcast, but maybe there has to be in May. And then I also are looking to collaborate with game designers and game publishers on upgrading a new board game to help people to try something new. Because I try so many business and career. I wish that I don't have to spend so much time and money upfront.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:23

Awesome. Well, I wish you nothing but the best. It's, it was great. I know we met briefly. You couldn't have been nicer. Pod fest. I gotta I gotta photo with you. I mean, you were so generous with your time everyone wanted a picture with you. Oh, so I thought I thought that was cool. And then it was great seeing you sing She Bangs live. I gotta say it was. I have it on my phone I videoed. It was. I'll use it when when I released this episode. All right. Well, your book is champion by choice. You can get it wherever books are. So

William Hung 40:57

the easiest way right now is Amazon. But if you buy if you want like a purse like, wow, it was popular when I when I got up and running on SD like, like a signature all the personalized autograph version of it. So if you'd like one of those copies, send me a direct message on Instagram. William Hung official.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:16

All right. Do you hang out on any of the other socials besides Instagram?

William Hung 41:19

Yes, I'm also more active now on Facebook and LinkedIn. My website is William Hunter and that is under construction. It's gonna take some time, but stay tuned. Follow me on social media. You can also reach out to me email William at William Hung dotnet you have direct access to me. I think at this stage in my life, whatever I can do to help you within my power I want to do because, you know, I feel like my dream already came through in my life. So I want to make other people's dream come true as well.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:52

William Hung, you are amazing. And I appreciate every moment you just spent with me. Thank you very much. You're welcome. All right, everyone, William Hung, cuz he walks your dogs and your dogs actually walk she banks. Banks don't do it nearly as good as well. Yeah. Well, I tried though. Anyway, I love talking to William It was great to hear his side of that whole journey that we all watch from our couches on the TV and the news. I hope you enjoyed it as well check out Williams book, I put links to his American Idol audition in the show notes as well as all his social media links. So check those out. Well, the interview over do I mean one thing that's right episode 222 is coming to an end. Can't believe it. One more huge thank you to William Hung. And of course a huge thank you to all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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