#355 Middle of the Rainbow: Bonnie Bartlett on Life, Love, and Triumph in Showbiz

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

right, Allison, thanks so much for that amazing introduction to get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome everybody to episode 355 of classic conversations as always, I am your host. Jeff Dwoskin, great to have you back for what sure to be one of the greatest episodes of all time. My guest today is none other than legendary actress two time Emmy Award winner, Bonnie Bartlett, we're talking about her amazing career. We're talking about her amazing memoir, so many great stories. And that's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds, I hope you didn't miss my amazingly wonderful conversation with Annie corzen. Viral sensation at 86 you loved her on Seinfeld. So many great stories. And speaking of stories, Bonnie Bartlett, you loved her on a Little House on the Prairie, Saint elsewhere, Firefly, Stargate twins and so much more, over 200 acting credits, two Emmys, an amazing life and career with William Daniels. Oh boy, Meets World. I mean, like there's so many so we cover a lot. You're gonna love it. We talk a lot about her amazing book, middle of the rainbow, how a wife, mother and daughter managed to find herself and win two Emmys, inspirational, great stories, amazing person, and that is coming up right now. All right, my next guest has been entertaining us for over 70 years, over 200 film and TV appearances, including two Emmy Awards for her role on st elsewhere, loved her on Little House in the prairie and so much more. Now, author of middle of the rainbow, how a wife, mother and daughter managed to find herself and win two Emmys please. Welcome to the show. Bonnie Bartlett, hey, hi. How are you? I am so great. Last night I rewatched your very first home improvement as Tim. Oh, really, yeah,

Bonnie Bartlett 2:30

that was fun. That was a fun show.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:32

Yeah, Tim is I'm coming to you from Michigan. Ah, Detroit. He's from Detroit. Exactly. Is he, I think in one of the we share

Bonnie Bartlett 2:41

a love for a certain ice cream they have in Detroit. Which one, which one, I can't remember, Tim would know. He always still orders it. I think wonderful ice cream. I used to get a hot fudge sundae there. Oh, Saunders, yes, Sanders. London loved it.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:56

Sanders. Hot fudge is the best. But yeah, Tim's a Detroit person, and you played his mom one of my I'm a stand up comic. I do stand up comedy. Also, one of my favorite stories ever is about Tim Allen's actual mom. Did a show together. I did a we did a for Dick Purton. We did a big comedy kind of charity event with Tim Allen. And Tim's mom came up to me after and was like, You were so good. You were so good. And I was like, Well, you know, if you win over the mom, you're like,

Bonnie Bartlett 3:26

Well, I know he, he did talk about his mom, yeah, so she sounds like a, I don't know if she's still with us, but she sounded like a fun lady. It

Jeff Dwoskin 3:35

was just, I got a real kick out of that. I was just like, but that was funny. He was wearing like a Detroit Lions shirt, and he's very, very Detroit that was, did you enjoy doing comedies?

Bonnie Bartlett 3:47

Yes, I do. I didn't really. In the beginning I was a very serious theater actress. I wanted to be do Greek tragedy, and that was my pain. And of course, life takes you where it takes you. My husband, of course, is a master comedy, and I, you know, I picked it up, and I wasn't as comfortable doing it. So it was but it was very good to work with Tim, because he and Pat were wonderful. They completely supported me, if you will, and helped me along, really. And I had done a lot of other stuff, but that I really enjoyed. It's very funny. He's

Jeff Dwoskin 4:24

very funny. That was home improvement, was just one of the best sitcoms. Absolutely, I loved your book. Yes, good. I've heard you interview. Listen to some of your other interviews that you've done, and I love that you do not hold back you. You tell it like it is. And it's a really impactful book

Bonnie Bartlett 4:42

that sometimes men have a little trouble with it. They don't like seeing some of the things. But you know, with what's happening right now, I don't know if you've watched any of the convention, but the whole thing is that the women are saying, we're not going back. We're not going back. Actually. My book is going back. My book is trying to tell you what it was like. I'm almost 100 years old. I'm 95 I've been around a long time, a lot longer than most people, and so I'm trying to tell them what it was like. And of course, the progress that we've made and the joy that you can have, even if you have all of that nastiness in the background, you can go on as a be a mother, the joy of motherhood, the joy of having a good career, working with my husband, and it's all turned out wonderfully, wonderfully, but I had to work hard. I had to work hard because of that, that background, and that's really what the book is about. And it's right, you want to know what it was like going back. When you say you don't, we're not going back, right? We're not going back. And they are. The women are very strong about this.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:53

I have two daughters, my wife, so I'm the sole guy. So I when I read this, it's like I look at it different. I want their rights protected. I want them to be able to do what they need to do, and not have to live in fear of the government taking things away from them. So both of those things definitely resonated. Yes, good, good, good, good. I do feel like I know a lot more about you than I should, you know? I mean, I mean, you share a lot in the book. I feel like I need to tell you some things about me, just to make it fair. It is

Bonnie Bartlett 6:33

a very personal book, I know. And I mean, that's the only way I know how to work. That's who I am, and that's what I do. And when I finally get on, you know, I had to be most of the people are dead that were abusive to me or did anything, so that's fine. I can write about them and and it's okay. I'm not hurting them. I'm not hurting them. I always no,

Jeff Dwoskin 6:54

but I do. I think you wrote, or I pulled a quote said you wanted to speak to women so that they could see how you overcame it, to give them exactly

Bonnie Bartlett 7:04

how I have had a lot of therapy. And I certainly recommend that. I recommend that. I think, well, everybody has you have to go to the dentist. You have to go with therapists. I mean, you do have to have somebody to talk to about these things, because otherwise they weigh you down. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:20

It's a very empowering book. So that was, it was a great message. And, oh, you know what else I was watching recently that I forgot you were in. Then I was watching it, and I'm like, oh, Bonnie's in this too. I was re watching V, the original Mini Series. Yes, that was good. I was talking to Jane Badler, so I was re watching it again. V is one of my favorite things ever. I had Kenny Johnson on the show once, and I'm growing up, I was obsessed with that mini series. It was just, it was just so amazing you You're great in that you have. It's such a powerful story, really. I mean, it still resonates today. That's it was funny when I was talking to Jane, and then you mentioned it in your book, because I think she came right after the tragedy that occurred with Dominique, you kind of put a different vibe on the show for me, like when I was watching after I read your thing, because I was just like, because I didn't realize the timing. I think when I was I was young, so I don't think I understood the timing of it. Blair was Robin Maxwell and the character, and so I didn't realize that. I knew that she had died and was murdered. I didn't realize ever that she was supposed to be on V and that she was supposed to be Robin Maxwell. She

Bonnie Bartlett 8:26

worked one day, and there she was. And I, I enjoyed just watching her. I didn't we weren't friends, but I enjoyed her very much, and she was terrific. And then all of a sudden, the next day, another person shows up in her part, and in the meantime, she had been murdered that night. It was all so fast, and it was so unrecognized. I mean, it was recognized in the press, but it was we just went on. It's horrible,

Jeff Dwoskin 8:53

because when I talked to Jane, she was explaining, like, how she came into it, and everyone was mourning. So it was like, it was like, it was so surreal. It

Bonnie Bartlett 9:01

was a totally surreal experience, because the business, they have to do that, but, oh, it's depressing to just replace like they weren't there. They don't exist. It's gone, and then somebody else. Oh, boy, that's tough. That. That was a tough word, very tough, other than

Jeff Dwoskin 9:19

that, which I know that's a big one to get over. Did it was V something that you enjoyed being part of. I mean, I when I when I re, watch it now and when I re, I rewatch it a few times in the last probably five years. The story is very reminiscent of now as well, because it's ahead to all the Holocaust themes and the people taking over and and like you watch it now, and it's still like a lot of the playbook,

Bonnie Bartlett 9:43

yeah, the, what's the word, the betrayal in the family? Oh, that's, that's the hard thing to do, that betrayal, yes, in the show, going

Jeff Dwoskin 9:52

back in time, a little bit, you knew right away. You loved acting. You kind of had that the bug really early. Me and

Bonnie Bartlett 10:01

my father had been an actor. We experienced a lot of very good things and a lot of bad things. It was a very good, good experience. So I've had wonderful experiences. Really. Little House on the Prairie was a joy to do. I do now a couple of conventions with little house people, and I get to see them again. And I enjoy that. I enjoy the conventions and meeting the people and having the fans there, you know, I like that.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:28

I just talked to Dean Butler, were you the 50th anniversary in Simi? I

Bonnie Bartlett 10:33

was in Simi Valley just one day because I had I was a little ill, so I only did one day of it, but it was great. And everybody loves me. I love it. They do, you know? I mean, they love that character, Grace. They love her, the character. And with what his name, Victor, Victor, Victor, and grace.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:52

It's Grace. What was your experience with Michael Landon and

Bonnie Bartlett 10:56

mine was very good. Yeah, he really respected me. He He gave me the job. He just met me, and he gave me the job. I was just here in California for a while. It just happened so fast. So it was just wonderful. I loved it. He was a wonderful director. He was a television series guy, and that was my first experience with a television series, because I would get it, they'd send me a script, and maybe I didn't have any lines or anything. I'm from the theater, so, I mean, I think and soap operas where you do nothing but talk. So here, here is this a script? I said, I can't do this. Script is edited. He said, You don't understand. He said, When we buy you for a series, we buy you to be there when we need you. But there are times when you'll just be there and you won't have anything much to do, but you are there, and people know you're there. And that's how we work it. We have, we get these people that are right for the characters, and then they're there for us when we need them for the story. You know, very good. He also said he's the one who said to me, you have to come totally prepared, knowing everything you're going to do, and then be able to turn it around 180 degrees if I ask you to. And I thought that was a really good thing, because that's good, that's smart,

Jeff Dwoskin 12:15

that's really interesting. He seemed to really understand, like, I think I read once, he made the episodes, they all stand alone, meaning so didn't matter in syndication if they shuffled them around or not, like you wouldn't have a part one and then not be able to see part two. It just seemed like he had like a pulse on the concept of creating something that lasts forever. And you're right, he was doing this, yes,

Bonnie Bartlett 12:43

I'm sorry. It's cheap. It was. It's very sad that he didn't live longer, and to see how it's gone on so, so amazing. What? People just love it. They just love it generations, you know, grandmas and mothers and then kids,

Jeff Dwoskin 12:58

right? Because, I mean, to have that many people, are fans for grandmothers. Well, to have that many people come to that 50th anniversary, oh, god yes, generation, it's

Bonnie Bartlett 13:07

a strange thing in our country, isn't it? The Celebrity thing and the nostalgia thing, it's been extremely popular, the nostalgia of and going back to these shows, yes, less so saying elsewhere, because that was very sophisticated show for its time, and it has not held well that, first of all, they didn't do the reruns and stuff, you know. And it was more just for its time somehow, you

Jeff Dwoskin 13:36

know, yeah, from what I understand very well, the acting,

Bonnie Bartlett 13:39

you would think, with all of these wonderful actors on this show, that it would be out there, you know, but not enough. Well. It's

Jeff Dwoskin 13:48

one of those things when you look back on it, and you go, what Denzel and William Daniels and Howie Mandel and Ed Beck, like people that all. But this is where they kind of started, right? Most of them, right. So this is, you had this magic that they pulled together. All these people became massive,

Bonnie Bartlett 14:06

yeah? Well, it was done sales money job. I mean, it was his job that he did. He wasn't really interested. He wanted to do features, but it paid the bills till he got started.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:17

Yeah, it's, I think I read it like it was never like well, didn't it almost get canceled after the first season, after

Bonnie Bartlett 14:23

the first season, we thought it was canceled. Bill and I had gone to make a trip, you know, in Italy, and we figured it had been canceled so we could go. And then when we got back to this country, we called our son, who was out here, and I said, he said, you know, Dad, I think that show you on, I think that got picked up and it had been canceled. He said, I think it got picked up and that was because of Grant Tinker. I believe Grant Tinker loved that show, and his son was one of the producers, two sons, writers and producers. So

Jeff Dwoskin 14:55

in addition to like, maybe cancel during the first season, it was never like from. I understand, like a ratings powerhouse, it was one of those just amazing shows that just went many, many seasons and now stands to be like probably one of the best written shows ever

Bonnie Bartlett 15:11

begin, is certainly the best written medical show those Tom Fontana, we still see Tom, and he was the head writer, and he he's just done some amazing things after that, lot of good stuff. It was just a remarkable show. And Bruce the producer, was wonderful. Bruce toltrack, and he who was a great producer,

Jeff Dwoskin 15:33

well, with everybody, it was just such a everything was so amazing. Yeah, because I read that they like to use the names of the people that were related. Like, Gwyneth Paltrow was a doctor that you could hear over the loudspeaker. They'd go, Dr Gwyneth Paltrow. And like, they like to work in the names of, oh, yeah, they do.

Bonnie Bartlett 15:51

And they used a lot of Bill John Adams from 1776 they called things. We went to Philadelphia, and it was the John Adams building. And, I mean, they did that all the time. They did that all and they like to put in sort of salacious or dirty, what do you want to call it, and get away with it, so that the the people who were double checking all this stuff didn't get it. They loved to pull them. They played those games. I think that kept them going. That would be hard to write that all the time. Very hard.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:25

That is so funny. Is this the first time you guys played husband, fictional husband and wife as well, even William Daniels. Or is this the first time? I know you did a few times, but like, was this the first time? Well,

Bonnie Bartlett 16:35

of course, we did it in school. We did Macbeth, Western, Lord and Lady Macbeth, yeah, we worked together a lot at school, and then when we came up, I got a big job on a soap opera. And so that really took me, pulled me away. And then Bill his first really important job was the zoo story, Edward Albee's first play, amazing play. It was a life changer and wonderful, wonderful play. And then he went on from there, 1776 so he he did 1000, he did a lot of theater, lot of theater. But he did find finally that he was happier out here doing television, better

Jeff Dwoskin 17:16

life, especially because he gets to work with you all the time. So what would be right. So that'd be so when you guys were at St elsewhere, he would go and record his lines for Knight Rider as KITT. I don't know if you can see in my background right there, that is your husband's autograph on my wall is kit. Oh, it can't really make it out, but like, but it is, I like his voice, to me, like, did he ever do that voice when you guys were just in a car together? Because, I mean that

Bonnie Bartlett 17:47

actually, that is his voice. He just plays the character and then, but he doesn't change his voice, really. It's just that maybe they run it through something I don't know, to make it sound even more nasal, but he has this voice, that is, he's always been able to produce it in the theater in New York. You know, they Phil never had help. He had you he spoke and you heard him because he knew how to do that. He just had wonderful production and wonderful, amazing annunciation. Yo,

Jeff Dwoskin 18:18

he's got an amazing voice. That's why it's like today, like is it to get into the back of an Uber of someone who would be the right age that would know Knight Rider and then do is, even if it's his own voice, but like he's talking as the car, that would be like the greatest moment ever. That's right. Sorry to interrupt. Have to take a quick break. I do want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors, you're supporting us here at Classic conversations, and that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my amazing conversation with Bondi Bartlett. We're going deeper into saying elsewhere so willing. Daniel was on the show first, and then you joined as his wife. This is like little house, though. Bring you on as a reoccurring character, or like, and then kind of blossom in the role and become more important. So that's, that's that's happened to you a bunch of times. Yeah, it's

Bonnie Bartlett 19:09

happened. I am essentially supporting actress. I haven't had a lot of lead, lead, lead roles a couple times, but I'm a supporting actress, you know, to the stars of the show, and I like it that way, because I get to do so many different things, which is what I like something about Bill. There is something about Bill, and this is true of a lot of iconic actors. He's always there. It's always him, whether it's John Adams or kits or Dr Craig or Mr. Feeny, is still always built, and he has a kind of a gravitas or something that that's just there. You know, he didn't like create it. It's just there. I like to do like I can, I can play it an alcoholic mother, a terrible lady. I can play a. On Golden Girls, a real bitch. I can go complete so that I'm not even, you're not even going to wear that. I'm there I am. It's me underneath it all. But I can characterize, and that's what I like to do. I've always liked to do that.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:15

Was there ever a part that you wanted that was a lead, though? Because, I mean, your talent is beyond, right? I mean, like, so you're really, really good. So it's like, You're so talented. Somebody's like, was there anything like that you went for, or didn't get, or you did get, and that would be an example of long

Bonnie Bartlett 20:31

time ago, remember the play, but, and I'm trying to think of the actress that got the part because she became a big movie star. And I was like, second, it would have meant a bigger I don't think, I still don't think, because she, she was the kind of woman who was like Faye Dunaway. It's Faye Dunaway, and she was, she sees herself as a star. It's self fulfilling if they go in. I never wanted that. I just wanted to act and make a living and act. I didn't want to be an online life. Do you know what I mean? I just wanted to do that, that, look how long it took me to write the book. I just wanted to work and live, let me alone. I mean, you know, I'm, this is what I do, like a doctor, or that's what he does, what a teacher, that's what they you know, whatever they do. That's the way I looked at acting, no coming into it, trying to be a star. I never end up, but the women who do, and they have, maybe beauty to go with and everything, that's what they want. And guys too, of course, but that's what they want, and they can get it. I didn't want that when I had my when we talked to the boys, I stopped acting for almost 10 years, yeah, because

Jeff Dwoskin 21:41

I wanted to be on with them. Mother is the greatest role, right? So it is, it is, we can't help it. I love that part. I love that you took the time off. Well, going back with Bill, with William. I so you guys met at Northwestern and you've been married 70 more than 70 years, probably now, right? I mean, like three, I think 73 years, I loved how honest, brutally honest, you were in the book talking about good times and the bad times and well,

Bonnie Bartlett 22:11

because it was we were not, we were not really romantic. Do you know what I mean? I mean, we wanted sex and that day and age, the only way you could really get it easily is to get married. You know, it wasn't accepted to go live with somebody. Our parents were both against everything, everything. Both of our parents just hated both of us. It was awful. It was awful. There was nothing romantic. There was nothing like a big there was a wedding and stuff, but, but, I mean, it was in between us. There was never any of this. Oh, my God, this is for life. We didn't think that at all. We didn't think that at all. We didn't have any of that concept at all. So we grew into that. We grew into it many years later, where we're totally devoted to each other, you know, wouldn't think of going away. We started the funny way. We started a funny

Jeff Dwoskin 23:02

way. So you think the path that you took is, was it was a product of the times, kind of like,

Bonnie Bartlett 23:09

yes, yes, yes. I don't recommend this. I don't recommend it. We managed to get through it. Definitely product of the New York in the 60s and the 50s. Very different.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:21

What advice do you have for someone who, if someone asks, I'm sure you've been asked a million times, like, 73 years of marriage, like, what's, what is the secret? What is the one thing you would say these couple things, you know, these are the keys to a true Well, first of all,

Bonnie Bartlett 23:37

you have to like each other, and there are going to be taught now, there were things about Bill, I really his anger and so forth. So you have to, it's very hard, those things that you don't like about the other person. They have to be measured. They have to be if they get too strong. He was able to grow, always, always able to grow and change. And that was me. All my life was growing and changing. My whole life has been growth, right? Never stops. I think, I don't know. I think first of all that, and then you have to respect each other's work. Each person has, if they have work, if it is being a mother, you got to respect that. But I think women should have always something else to do. I think that's really important, is that they should have every little girl should look for what she wants to do. It's like again, I'm going to go back to Cameron. She made a choice that she wanted, of what she worked hard, she made a choice what she wanted to do, and then she made a choice that she wanted. Instead of being a big shot lawyer, she wanted to be of service. That was her choice. See, every person should make those choices. Of this is where I'm comfortable. This is what I want to do, and they should do that. And then they have a life too. They have a life. They maybe or maybe not, but. To have a look, boy, girl, whatever, and maybe children. The idea of having children is very serious, because I think that's where you make a huge commitment, and you've got to follow that commitment. You got to be a good parent, as good as you can be.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:15

I agree with that. That's great advice. I think it's amazing how all the stories you shared, I'm not going to tell them all, because I want people they can read the book. They want to give it all away here, I'll show you here. This is the book. There's a beautiful picture. Yeah, pretty good picture. 40

Bonnie Bartlett 25:33

something when they took average, it looks younger, doesn't.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:36

A lot of your career came when you were in your mid 40s, right? Like early to mid 40s. That's when we

Bonnie Bartlett 25:41

came out to Hollywood, you know. And there again, when we came out, I was not happy. I didn't want to be here. I was I'd had some terrible things going on, and I didn't want to be here. And Bill said, sent me over to his agent, because he was doing stuff at the time and and he said, she's really good, you know. And they sent me out, and I just got all kinds of work. I was ready. You were ready. I was really ready. I was so confident. By that time, I had worked so hard and studied so hard to be to be better, always better as an actress, and I was just ready to do it easily. And it's all been easy. So easy.

Jeff Dwoskin 26:16

I feel that's an inspiration as well. Because I feel like in this like, when you hear people talk, it's like, by 40 you're washed up, you know what I mean? And like, your amazing career started right then. And so it's like that in itself, I think also is there's there can always be the right time it was, it was at

Bonnie Bartlett 26:34

a time when they had gunna smoke. And I could do, I could do country ladies. I did my grandma's, all those I knew all of that background. I could do all that stuff. I could do just about anything in the I'm a Jewish mother. I'm not all Jewish, but I could do that. I mean, I could just do

Jeff Dwoskin 26:50

anything. Isn't when you're when your adopted sons is half Jewish. So I You're, you're honorary, you're definitely an honorary Jewish mom. I'll give it to you. I'm definitely, I am dead, yeah, for sure. Oh, so little house. Back to little house for a second. So Victor decides he's going to leave little house, right? And they end up writing you out of the show as well. That had to have, that had to suck, right? I mean, that had a bit, and

Bonnie Bartlett 27:15

I was very, I was very unhappy, but I was very short time because I went on and did a lot of other work. But yes, at the time it hurt. It hurt. It did. I understood it, but, you know, and then he was not successful in his sitcom, but by that time I was working, so it was okay, so I got plenty of other work. Thank God. Yes, if you just do one partner, that's it, oh god, that's a hard career. Or just one show, one part. You know, you want to lots of parts. And that, I was very lucky that I got lots and lots of parts after that.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:48

Yes, you did. Was there ever a time where they're like, Well, maybe we'll kill them off and make you a widow? Yeah. Was there ever, like, Michael landing was like, well maybe, well. It was like, Nope,

Bonnie Bartlett 27:58

no, he's right. He was right because Victor, Victor had, Victor was like, in a funny way, was like the star of the show. Do you know what I mean, he was, he was the comedy. He was the guy of a hanger on, you know, to Michael, who was the straight leading man. Michael was a straight leading man. So

Jeff Dwoskin 28:15

Michael must have not been happy either. Then, no, he felt terrible.

Bonnie Bartlett 28:19

I don't I think Victor had to come back and beg. I'm not sure. I bet he had to come back and beg. Oh,

Jeff Dwoskin 28:26

man, I bet. I bet. Because my who else on the little house where you close it like Melissa Gilbert, or like she

Bonnie Bartlett 28:33

was wonderful little girl. I see Melissa a little bit, and she's had a tough life, really, but she's okay. Now, I think she's okay. She's had a lot of problems and made a lot of bad choices, but she's okay. She's a good girl. She's a good woman. She's a very good woman for

Jeff Dwoskin 28:50

being so young and having that entire series on her shoulders. I mean, incredible. Yeah,

Bonnie Bartlett 28:55

it is. And I see Allison engrin, I see some of them. And as you said, Dean Butler, he's a lovely young man, lovely man. I shouldn't say I don't know case shelter way. But anyway, I spent some time with him, and I liked him a lot, because I wasn't on the show with him, but I liked him a lot.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:12

Yeah, when I talked to Allison, it's always fun to talk to someone who is completely different than the character you have in your head.

Bonnie Bartlett 29:22

She's a good girl.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:24

She's so funny, she's so funny. She's got such a personality. Wow, she has, she has a real personality. So you, you did that, you did then from there, that's where you kind of moved on to saying, elsewhere, right? And then, and then,

Bonnie Bartlett 29:38

when proven came after that, twins. I made the movie of twins.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:42

I had a saint elsewhere question for you in reading your book. So in saying elsewhere, there's a part of the story where you talk about how the plot of your son passing away, and then you getting their child, and that was your idea, but you had Bill kind of sell it in is that? Was a dance

Bonnie Bartlett 30:00

group that was a buddy group, you know, and the women, they were not appreciated to making ideas. Let me which is typical, typical, unless you have power. And of course, none of us did, so, yeah, it was, I do enough to have Bill's idea

Jeff Dwoskin 30:19

was, was that plot line difficult, knowing you had lost a child right before you adopted your two wonderful sons? Was it difficult to come out, to suggest that, and then have to play all that out and then live it out again? That's that was when I was reading the book. That's what kind of the question that kind of popped to my acting,

Bonnie Bartlett 30:38

at least for me, relevant is difficult. The acting is easy. It's yeah, yeah. You go, you have to stir in a pot. You have to stir in the pot and find the things that work for you. But you're an actor, and that's your job, and so you're fulfilling your job, and to know that you're doing a good job is really all it matters, you know? Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 31:01

well, I was just, I would, my question is, because it was your idea to create that plot. So it was like, I just wondered if it was, it felt a little too close to home. I guess it's like, versus if it had just been something someone else had randomly come up with.

Bonnie Bartlett 31:14

Yeah, it isn't personal. It's, it's your craft, and you do whatever you can to make your craft move and is interesting. And I thought that that would be, I thought we were too old to have a child in the script. But I thought, well, we can be the grandparents. How do we get to be grandparents? So then I figured it out, that's the way we get to be grandparents. So we had a fun time.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:37

All right, so trivia kind of made Emmy history. You and William both won an Emmy on the same night for the same show. So that had to been amazing. I mean, the photo of just the two of you that I've seen with both of you holding your Emmy,

Bonnie Bartlett 31:53

who's hand, my granddaughter put together a t shirt. That is, she took a picture of Bill and me getting the Emmys and very excited, and then she does kind of an anime thing, you know, on a t shirt. It says, For better or worse. So I'm just getting those made. They're wonderful. They're so sweet, and they're so wonderful for better or worse. I think we'll sell those because we we're going to have a little store, you know, and sell all the stuff, all the pictures, all the books, all the stuff. Love it. My son and my granddaughter can do it all after we're gone. So anyway, they're in charge. They're in charge. Just saw a couple of T shirts of it. I have a wonderful t shirt for Golden Girls where the author says, Go to hell. And that's so wonderful. She designed that too. She loves to make

Jeff Dwoskin 32:43

these. You want an Emmy the next year as well? Right? Yes, yes, all

Bonnie Bartlett 32:48

one two. And I want to. He had won the year before, so he won two. And I want to, so we shouldn't fight, you know, we have four grandchildren, so each one can have one of our Emmys.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:58

You hear other stories where, like, one person's that's a much more accomplished actor or actress, and it doesn't fare well for the relationship, you know? I mean, so it's, it's a thing. It's like a picture, like, must have been a really good night in the in the Daniels house, when you both came home with the Emmy. Yeah,

Bonnie Bartlett 33:16

the only time it was tough was when I won the Emmy and he didn't. And the journalist said, Mr. Bartlett, would you stand aside, please? And Bill did not like that at all. It's the only time in our life that he's been called Mr. Bartlett. Oh, boy, that was not good,

Jeff Dwoskin 33:33

no. But usually, like, I saw a People magazine article that said, Who's William Daniel's wife? And I was like, I'm like, you've accomplished enough that you should not be, that should not be the lead. And I was like, so if you got one time where he got to be Mr. Mr. Bartlett, that's that should be, okay, all right, so you win all the awards. And then, oh, you mentioned twins, so you get to work with Ivan Reitman twice. So this is the first time then you were in Dave twins. Great movie, great cast, great comedy. Arnold Schwarzenegger's first kind of, or at least the one comedy that kind of set him on the road to being the humorous weightlifter. You didn't want that role at first. No,

Bonnie Bartlett 34:16

because it was not what I went to the reading. I was glad to get the job. Then I went to the the first reading, and I thought, I ever really like this? And I Who is that guy over there with those short those arms? I didn't know who he was. And I knew Danny, of course, but I thought she has there's no part though, there's no part there. It doesn't mean anything. And so I said, I reneked. And I said, I don't want to do it. And my agent called to tell them. And then he called me back, and he said, Bonnie, he wants to meet you and find out what's the matter. So I went, I told him, and I went through the whole script, and I said, You got to have something there. So, you know, she's got to mean something through the whole script. It's got to be and I suggested things along the way. Suggest he so many. I. Ivan says, I can't make you do this job, but I'll tell you, I'm going to use every one of these suggestions.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:05

Can't say no to that. You can't say no to that.

Bonnie Bartlett 35:09

And he was wonderful. He was wonderful to me and listened to me and respected me. Yeah, it was a collaboration, that little part, little part, but it was the collaboration that's what sport is that part supports the story so that you can believe it, but because she believes this. And so it becomes from this silly, all this silliness, to, oh my god, this didn't really happen.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:33

Do you know who played you as the young version of you? No, I he

Bonnie Bartlett 35:38

was gonna have me do it, and then at the last minute, he said, I can't do this. I can't I can't take a chance. I said, I think you're right. We've spent a lot of time, but I think you're right. He said, I'm just gonna pull an extra I said, Well, get somebody really classy. And he did. He pulled somebody that. And it was funny,

Jeff Dwoskin 35:53

yeah, I read there was Heather Graham, who, like, went on to do a lot of other movies, okay, but we don't know. I was hoping it said uncredited, so I don't know. So you never know. Sometimes you read these things and you just you never know. So you know. Sometimes you

Bonnie Bartlett 36:08

know, they don't tell you anything. They just hire your pay and then go by

Jeff Dwoskin 36:13

twins was a great movie, though they were talking about maybe making a sequel to

Bonnie Bartlett 36:17

it. It was, it turned out to be a terrific movie. I was totally wrong. Ivan

Jeff Dwoskin 36:21

Reitman had a good string. And then Dave is another. I loved the movie. Dave with Kevin Kline Sigourney Weaver, such a funny idea that movie is. And like, so good.

Bonnie Bartlett 36:32

Yeah. He called me and he said, Come on, I want you to play a senator. And just, you know, it was like, I went over, they put a suit on me, and I did it. But it was, it was. I like that movie very much, very much. Lot of good people in it, lot of fun, lot of funny things.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:47

Danny DeVito is so funny. And then I'm a big fan of Arnold, so he's fun to watch.

Bonnie Bartlett 36:55

Well, he's very smart. I'm a fan of his too, but for a different reason, not as an actor, but as a human. He did a PSA or something where he talked about what it's like to live under communist very, beautifully done. He's smart guy. This is no dummy. This is a smart guy. And father was a Nazi, you know, so he really

Jeff Dwoskin 37:14

knows what it's like. Oh, his father was really wow. Okay, part of that party, all right, we talked about home improvements, and that's a Detroit connection. The other Detroit connection that I found on your resume, I'm sure there's more, but like, Tuesdays with Maury. Oh yeah, cuz Mitch album, who wrote that he's, uh, he's from Michigan as well. One

Bonnie Bartlett 37:34

way, one only actor, Oh, he's so lovely. You worked with

Jeff Dwoskin 37:36

Jack. We were Jack Lemmons, wife in that, right? He was Maury, right? And Hank Azaria was in that. That was lovely. It was a small

Bonnie Bartlett 37:42

part, but I was happy to do it. Very happy to do it. And Jack was a doll, and he was dying.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:48

That's his last role, isn't it? Tuesdays with Maury was such a moment in time that book. Yes, exactly. Okay, so you were in Firefly? Yes.

Bonnie Bartlett 37:58

I loved playing that old lady,

Jeff Dwoskin 38:01

Patience. Patience, right? So you were in the episode called serenity, yeah. So interestingly, so I went, I was kind of looking it up, because that's like the one show that everyone's like, you gotta bring it back. You gotta bring it back. And Ron glass is in that, and you were in, you're in a couple Barney Millers as well. But serenity, while it was aired later as, like, the 11th episode or something, was originally the 90 minute pilot of the show, correct? So you were in the pilot of Firefly. That's correct. That has a cast too that. I mean, that is Gina Torres, like went on to do suits of love her, Nathan Fillion, Alan Tudyk, Marina, background. I mean, that's Ron glass. I mean, there's another

Bonnie Bartlett 38:41

thing that people love, is that I did Stargate. I played a part in Stargate. And they're big fans. That was made in Canada.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:50

Once you do, like, when these science, these cults, like, very popular science fiction, things you're in, like, oh, and you did

Bonnie Bartlett 38:57

the world. I was the killer of the world. Not the killer. I was the destroyer of the world, destroyer of

Jeff Dwoskin 39:07

the world. So when you're doing a Comic Con, assuming it's not like a the Simi Valley one, where people are there for little house, but when it's like Motor City Comic Con, where it could be any fan from anywhere, what does it just skew across all of it? You get a lot of little house. You get st elsewhere, or you get, like, the more the fireflies, you know, like, where does it fall in?

Bonnie Bartlett 39:27

I go with Bill. And so we as a couple, are an iconic couple because we've been married so long and we're so old. So I get a lot of that, but I get little house. I get golden girls. They're big Golden Girls fans. Let's see. He is Mr. Feeny. And so I get, of course, Mrs. Feeny. So, I mean, he's Mr. Feeny. That's iconic. You know, that's the big thing. He is Knight Rider. We get huge things of Knight Rider, cars, all kinds of stuff. St, elsewhere. 12. Is, is big. Graduate is big for him, saying elsewhere for both of us. Miss Feeney, Boy Meets World. For both of us, the graduate is still, it's still, you know, perks up there. Certainly little houses, certainly Boy Meets World. Boy Meets World is probably the most popular of all for the two of us that

Jeff Dwoskin 40:20

is huge. Like, I'm a when it comes to your husband, I like, I fall in the kit area, like, that's where when I grew up, that was my show.Knight Rider was my show. I think Boy Meets World. I was probably off at college or something like that, or, you know, that kind of thing. And like, but, yeah, I remember. But boy meets what? People are obsessive over that show. I mean, they love, they are. There's that generation. It means so so much that I talked to Jeff Sherman. And yes, love Jeff Sherman,

Bonnie Bartlett 40:50

yes. Lovely guy. He was one of the writers, right, right, right. And he

Jeff Dwoskin 40:53

talked about writing for William, and like writing a long speech, long speeches. And so again, you got to play. They brought you on, and then you eventually end up with Mr. Feeny's character towards the end of that last season. It's just people love seeing you guys together. It's just think that's

Bonnie Bartlett 41:10

it. Yeah, it's become that sort of thing. We're just that all that couple has been together the longest, and work together and stay together. That doesn't happen too much in Hollywood, but I think it's because we both treated our life like life and not like stars, because we kept out of the limelight as much as possible in our personal lives,

Jeff Dwoskin 41:31

right until you wrote your books, and then, boom,

Bonnie Bartlett 41:36

his book is a lot of stories. He doesn't talk about personal things at all.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:41

You got that covered. You got that covered, for sure. I got that. You also in one episode of Parks and Rec, which is one of my favorites.

Bonnie Bartlett 41:49

Oh yes, and, and also, Better Call Saul. Oh, Better Call Saul is brilliant. I I've done wonderful shows. You've done, you've

Jeff Dwoskin 41:57

done so much. I know I haven't even, yeah, Murder, She Wrote la law, Matlock, I mean, this is like, there's a million. I could keep going. There are hundreds. You may say hundreds or so. We gotta give a greatest hits. It's the greatest hits right now. That's because

Bonnie Bartlett 42:10

I can do so many different things, and that's been a wonderful career for me, really wonderful. I've enjoyed so much of it.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:18

Do you think, had you been the leading lady, that it would have been less potential roles, because people would have started to see you a particular way, and that as good as you are, you were able to chameleon into all these different supporting roles. Is different.

Bonnie Bartlett 42:32

Yeah, I've been lucky. I've been lucky so that you're, you're right. If I had been on one show for eight years, saying elsewhere I was on for six years, but I wasn't, yeah, I was one of the leads, yeah, but if I had been on a show when I was if I had stayed on the soap opera, I'd have been there forever because I did the lead on the soap opera. And I don't enjoy that at all, at all. No money. It's all about money. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 42:56

you're making bank. Yeah, you're making good money. When you walked away from that, yeah, you made the right choice. Clearly, yes,

Bonnie Bartlett 43:03

but it's, uh, both of us feel like we've been very, very lucky.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:08

Bonnie, thank you so much for hanging out with me. Thanks for one writing this book. It's incredible, and everyone should

Bonnie Bartlett 43:14

so glad that you enjoyed it. I mean, then you really did enjoy it. I

Jeff Dwoskin 43:19

really enjoyed it. I went, Yeah, I always, I read all the books like, so I'm becoming, like, a little house expert. I've read your book, Allison's, Karen Steen's, so it's like, I know everything about but, like, no, but your backstory and how brutally honest you are about your relationship with William Daniels and just what you had to go through. It's really an inspiration. I mean, it's just like, it's great for people to be able to read something like this and go, Okay, I can This is horrible, but there is a path I can, I can still find my way. Yes,

Bonnie Bartlett 43:50

and that's what I want. That's exactly what I want, and that's why I wrote it. Let's,

Jeff Dwoskin 43:55

let's read the, I'm going to read the name of the book real quick, middle of the rainbow, how a wife, mother and daughter managed to find yourself and win two Emmys. There's a website you can go to Bonnie's middle of the rainbow.com, that's, I think, get like, a signed copy there. So that's probably where you should go support Bonnie there and then. But it's probably everywhere else you can buy books as well. Bonnie. Thank you so much for sharing stories hanging out with me. So appreciated. Thank you very much. All right, how amazing was Bonnie Bartlett. I know so many great stories. Definitely. Check out a book full of even more great stories and inspiration. You will love it. There's a link in the show notes. Well, the interview over, they're calling me one thing I know another episode has come to an end. Huge thank you once again to the amazing Bonnie Bartlett, and a huge thank you to all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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