#342 Motown, Love and Legacy with Mickey and Michelle Stevenson

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

all right, Martha,

thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome everybody to episode 342 of classic conversations as always, I am your host. Jeff Dwoskin, great to have you back for what's sure to be an episode that will have you dancing in the streets. My guest today is power couple, Mickey and Michelle Stevenson. Mickey Stevenson was one of the principal architects of the Motown sound, put together the Funk Brothers. He's got stories on Stevie, wonder, Marvin Gaye and so much more. Michelle is the CEO and founder of innerverse enterprises. Together, they have collaborated on a powerful song, put Kamala in the White House. We're going to talk all about that amazing collaboration, and we're diving deep with Mickey into the world of Motown. Get ready for some Arthur Reeves stories. Stevie Wonder and more. You're gonna love it. And that's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds, last week, Adrian's med proved grease two is still the word we talked all about his amazing career. Do not miss that interview, but right now, do not miss this deep dive into the world of Motown. Mickey and Michelle's amazing collaboration and so much more. Enjoy. All right, everyone. I'm excited to introduce my next guest. It's rare that I have two people on at the same time. I'm excited I have Mickey and Michelle Stevenson. Michelle is the CEO and founder of innerverse enterprises. Mickey one of the principal architects of the Motown sound. I could go on and on and on, just being from Detroit, that was extremely exciting for me. They have collaborated on a new song we're going to talk about that put Kamala in the White House. Michelle's got a powerful voice. Oh, my god.

Mickey Stevenson 2:27

Oh god,

Michelle Stevenson 2:31

thank you. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 2:32

I, you know, they sent me the song, and I was like, I started listening to it. I'm like, Oh, this is good. You know, it's like, this is really good. It was like, which is not surprising. I mean, you know, you know, Mickey wrote it was part of some of the most

Michelle Stevenson 2:48

you was like, who's singing that song?

Jeff Dwoskin 2:51

MICHELLE, is this how much, how many other things have you sung? Is this your like, what's your singing background? My

Michelle Stevenson 2:58

singing background. I grew up in a family that's very musically inclined. However, this is the first song that I sang professionally. I mean, I have sing on some of Mickey's stuff in the past, like for plays and, you know, demos and things like that. But this is the first time like coming out. This is my coming out

Jeff Dwoskin 3:16

song. Yeah, that's a banger. It's my

Michelle Stevenson 3:19

dad's a vocal coach, and my mom and my sisters, everyone in my family, sings

Jeff Dwoskin 3:24

All right, so when you met Mickey, did you know he was a music legend? Then given your musical background?

Michelle Stevenson 3:31

Well, when I first met him, I didn't know he was a musical legend until he told me. And I was like, Okay, I told you, yeah, when we met at that place, you told me who you were,

Mickey Stevenson 3:41

oh, at that club, but I saw you looking so pretty to kind of slid over to you to make a conversation. Yeah. And

Michelle Stevenson 3:47

then when he told me who he was, I, I usually, you know, ask myself or spirit, you know, why did you put this specific person in my life? And at that time I was writing music, so I said, Well, maybe it's for that reason, but God had another plan. He's my husband today. I

Jeff Dwoskin 4:03

know it's amazing. So Michelle, yeah, how did Nikki just kind of slip that in the conference? How do you slip in that you're like, oh, guy responsible for probably so many songs that you all love? How does that just come up in conference? Oh, by the way,

Michelle Stevenson 4:22

he's like, girl, you know who I am. No, I'm just kidding. He slid a couple of things in the conversation. Actually, I'm a vegan. I was a vegetarian at the time, and it looked like he was eating something healthy. And we started talking about food. So he found a way to bring in music while we were talking about food at a rest at it was like a club, and one of his artists was there at the time. That's what happened. So we started talking, and he gave me his card, but like I said, I was like, maybe it's because I'm writing music. The Universe connected me with this guy, but he had another plan, absolutely. Yeah. I,

Mickey Stevenson 5:03

you know how we are.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:07

It's just, it's always just, uh, interesting to me, how, how we learn about each other's backgrounds. He's like, Oh, you like food, you know? I know who likes food? Smokey Robinson, what? You know?

Michelle Stevenson 5:19

Yeah, and I told him I was vegetarian. He's like, Oh, I'm vegetarian too. He was making he was just saying whatever I wanted to hear.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:29

Okay, so song put Kamala in the White House. Mickey, it's a, it's an offshoot of a song that is in one of your musicals. Yes,

Mickey Stevenson 5:38

I had a musical going called, What was the name of the show, sing it from the heart, from the heart, baby holiday, Josephine bacon, Donna Washington and Mary Jackson, Bessie Smith, Dorothy Dan rich earth, the kid, Lena Horne and these women met as they passed. They begin to meet each other. And so in their conversations, they were talking about about the President was coming in, whatever was happening at that time. And one of the girls said that, you know, what, if they had a woman in the White House, this whole thing would be better. This is years ago, and so I wrote a song for her to sing, put a woman in the White House, and all of a sudden, here we are today. Here it is. So I changed the words of some of the lines of the song to fit the moment. But it was amazing. It was amazing. And

Michelle Stevenson 6:24

it was almost like Mickey prophesied that one day there will be a woman in the White House. And it's really interesting how he said it was put a woman in the White House. And then some years ago, a couple years ago, years ago, there was a congresswoman who was running, and to me, she remind me of a female Martin Luther King, so we kind of did the song for her, not kind of we did the song for her. But when Mickey found out that Kamala Harris was running, I feel like he pulled out the red carpet. We got background singers. He rearranged, reashaped the song. He also, I was like, I think that you should put your signature on this one. He said, What do you mean? I said, The horns are dancing on the street. So we really put some colors on it for the Vice President, and that's what we'll be doing in November. We'll be dancing in the streets.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:16

Have you been able to get the song to Kamala or her campaign to hear it. Well,

Michelle Stevenson 7:24

we've been we have a PR team who's in action. So every day we're posting things that we have a Tiktok page called Team Kamala. So that is our hopes that the song would get to the White House. So we're in action. And I want to say, on top of that, it's we want to respect where everyone's at, because Kamala is not everybody's person, and that's okay. So we want people to be fully self expressed. That's just Mickey and I expression of the candidate that we love and a contribution what we want to share. So it's not about money, it's about making a difference. It's about getting out and vote.

Mickey Stevenson 8:03

Please, please vote.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:05

That's all we can do, is get out there and vote. Yes. Great message. Alright, so how did Michelle? Did you have to convince Mickey to let you sing it? Of course, it was Mickey. Mickey was like, hey, Michelle.

Michelle Stevenson 8:25

Well, you know, when I met Mickey early on, even though I said that I was writing songs the way, I know, how I never had lessons or anything like, I wouldn't sing in front of Mickey in the beginning because I'm like, oh, he'd been around Diana Ross, he'd been around like celebrities and, you know, big people. So I would hum songs, but I really wouldn't sing. And then being around him and really seeing how he is with people, and his passion for music and his passion to bring out people's gifts, I started feeling more comfortable, and I would do a little, but I wouldn't really let go. And so I said, I want you to give me lessons. He's like, Well, you gotta just let down everything that you already know about singing and be really fully self expressed and be big, and it doesn't matter if you hit the wrong note. So when I started feeling really safe and comfortable, he's like, you really have a voice, you know? Let's create something. So with put Kamala in the White House today, it really came natural that I was the girl to fulfill on, you know, what he wanted in that song, and it

Mickey Stevenson 9:24

took a lot of pressure off of me, see, because I'd have to keep going over and over and over. I had opportunity to do it one time and make it work

Jeff Dwoskin 9:33

as a track record of being able to pick out talent. Yeah, this is gift. I'm sure he wouldn't have given you that honor, if he didn't feel you were amazing, yeah.

Michelle Stevenson 9:44

And then I was thinking, like, in the beginning, like, I don't know if I can do it the way he wants me to do it, but just, you know, feeling safe and following his guidance, it just kind of fell in place. And then after I started to really sing it and the meaning and what we're singing about. You know, so it became my own.

Mickey Stevenson 10:01

I like that. Write that down, baby. He has it recorded. Oh, good.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:05

We've captured it forever. That's good.

How long have you guys been married?

Michelle Stevenson 10:16

We've been married, um, going on three years, but we've been together for about seven years. I had to make sure he was the right guy. I'm just kidding, seven years, really, you know, we both wanted to take our time to really get to know each other and make sure, you know, and spiritually, that we're spiritually aligned and all of that. So we really took our time with this. You guys

Mickey Stevenson 10:39

said this, this is going to be the last one. So it's gotta be, right, you know, I'm saying,

Jeff Dwoskin 10:44

Yeah, Vicky has decided he has settled down for good. Now we realize

Michelle Stevenson 10:47

we're really for each other in terms of purpose. You know, some people get married for different reasons, but to me, it's really important to know your purpose and what you're going to accomplish, and what God puts two people together to accomplish on the earth and the planet you know, to do His work. Very fortunate, very fortunate. So

Jeff Dwoskin 11:03

what else you guys gonna do together? Musically?

Michelle Stevenson 11:06

A whole bunch of music a second that came out

Jeff Dwoskin 11:09

of my mouth. Anyway, to finish that sentence, we're

Michelle Stevenson 11:12

gonna have a couple more babies. No, I'm just kidding. You know, we really love people, so we're committed that people know the importance of marriage. And I think we got to a place where we were able to get over some hurdles and really help people with marriage and the purpose of marriage, and the importance of staying together, the two becoming one more music, more music.

Mickey Stevenson 11:35

I gotta do another song.

Michelle Stevenson 11:40

He's already, you know, been looking through his catalog and saying, oh, you know, things like that. So whatever, really, the Spirit is leading us to do. We want to be God led. Then you want to add to that, Mickey, we're going to do babies, more babies. Yeah,

Mickey Stevenson 11:53

did she say more babies? We're

Jeff Dwoskin 11:57

going to have to end the interview early. They gotta go.

Mickey Stevenson 12:00

I'm doing a an incredible song show. It's called Azusa Revival, where the Holy Spirit came down in 1906 this is absolutely true. You can check it out at Azusa Street. And the Holy Spirit came in. People came from all over the country. They would walk into a certain area of the church, and they would be healed. They got out of wheelchairs, they started speaking in tongues, talking to each other in different languages. And it grew and grew. The most incredible thing ever. I turned that into a musical. And I really say it's more than a musical, but that was to bring the moment back. It's absolutely fascinating. So we're working on that Azusa Revival, that's

Michelle Stevenson 12:40

his current play that he's working on. He's also going to do the one show girls. I will sing it from the hot the one we just talked about, but the first one he talked about was 1906 it's recorded, you know, you can look on YouTube. It's about an African American man. William Seymour, so that is something that we are working on together as well.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:57

Yep, that's amazing.

Mickey Stevenson 12:59

I see that smile on your face. I like that.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:03

It's nice to see how much you guys love not only smushed right next to each other, but like working together clearly and vibing off each other's creative and spiritual energy. Mm, hmm,

Michelle Stevenson 13:16

yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 13:17

you know, as I was kind of going down, I was going down a Mickey rabbit hole before we talked, because I'm from a suburb of Detroit, but I like to say we, if you're from Michigan, and in this area, of course, we always say Detroit, because that's what everyone knows. So Motown, Hitsville, USA. I was just the other day telling someone like, What do you mean? You've never been down to the Motown museum. And so it was like, when Jesse texted me and was like, Hey, I got a couple folks for you to talk to. He's like, he was an A and R man. I'm like, okay, and then I like, I Google it. I'm like, Oh, wait, he didn't mention he was Berry Gordy's A and R man for Motown right at the beginning there. I mean, like, I was just like, so I got your book. I didn't have much time before this interview, but I pounded through that book. I was like, it was it's amazing. So Michelle, let me ask you a question. Sure, what story does Mickey keep telling that you're at a party or something, and then you just got to tune out because you've heard it so many times.

Michelle Stevenson 14:18

I'm like, again, actually, there's several, and actually I don't, I don't want to tune them out, because the stories are so beautiful. I love his story about how he discovered Stevie Wonder in the beginning when he came to Motown. And when he describes the story, he talks about how Stevie was on the drums and the piano, he kind of mimics it. So you he's very, a very vivid writer and a vivid speaker, so you feel like you can see, feel and hear it. So that's what I love about that story, and I love the Marvin Gaye story. But I do want to add you did ask me this one thing that I'm really, really proud of with Motown, is that the story. Story that when Mickey tells about when the segregation, when white people are on this side, black people on that side, and there was like, police with bully clubs, and you stay over here and you stay over there, but when the music started, and everybody was singing, how everybody came together, even the polices with the billy club. So I'm really inspired by that what they did on the planet through music during civil rights, that's something I'm inspired by. Yeah,

Mickey Stevenson 15:26

that's amazing. It never failed. Amazing.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:28

Yes, completely inspiring. And there was, there was a part in the book where I was reading it, we were talking about Supremes being on Ed Sullivan Show, and breaking down the racial barriers, how Motown had a huge part in breaking down the racial barriers for TV. On TV, I thought that was so great. They were so popular that he just couldn't deny it. It didn't matter what color they were, just like

Michelle Stevenson 15:53

and so fine. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:55

And Michelle, you know when I say tune out. I was just joking. I was just picturing my wife, where she like, you hear this? Yeah, yeah.

Michelle Stevenson 16:04

I mean, he has some moments. I'm like, Okay, now, okay, the story's over.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:11

Mickey, what was it like hearing Stevie Wonder? For the first time, Stevie Wonder,

Mickey Stevenson 16:14

it was amazing. I had the opportunity to meet him by chance, because Clarence Paul was one of the employees I had. We worked together. Clarence Paul and I. We were the SAM and Dave of Detroit, you know, the seven day Do it, do it. And when I got the job as a and r man, I called Clarence, because Clarence Paul could take any song and make a and make it work at just the kind of creator he was his talent gift. When we were putting out our albums, we'd have the first song released, the second release. The rest of the stuff in the album was terrible for me, so I told Berry. I said, Listen, I gotta get somebody that make make the album sound good. Yes, we gotta hit record on it. Yes, yes. But the other six or seven songs, they gotta be about something. So I hired Clarence to come in, because he could make any thing work in the world of singing. So I said, Clarence, I give you a job. I want you to check every album and any songs that don't work, you fix it or record another one. So our albums have some quality to them other than the first and second record and so so he took the job. After a while, he came to me and he said, Man, can I record produce one of the Four Tops of the Tims? I can't do that. I mean, I think they got producers. I can't, well, take two on. I mean, I can't do that. He said, Well, I'm just doing fill ins, so I want to do something else. So I said, Well, we'll talk about it next week, and I'll see if I can come up with some idea for you. In the meantime, the following week showed up. I'm trying to figure out I gotta let him go, because I can't take pink hollering doser off or smoke you off of the main artist. That's not going to you going to fire him in a nice way. Okay, so, so, so we came to the meeting. He came to the meeting with me. He said, Well, before, before we get started, something I want to tell you about. And I said, What's that? He said, I want to leave. I felt comfortable because I didn't, you know, he brought up the subject. So I got a nice way of getting out of this thing, he said, but before I go, I got this artist that I found that I want to bring in and do a couple of songs on. So I thought that was a relief for me again. I said, Hey, no problem. He said. One more thing. He said he's blind. I said, he's blind. He said, Yeah, I said. He said, But you check you know your words you're buying. You said, I can, I could bring him in and do a couple of songs. I said, But you didn't tell me. Was blind? He said, Well, I told ask you first so that you wouldn't tell me. No second. I said, Okay, man, okay. He said, one more thing. I said, What's that? He said, he's about 10 years old, 11 years old. 11 years old. I said, Wait a minute. Let me get this straight. 10 year old, blind kid. Are you crazy? He said, No. He said, Remember your word? He told me. I said, Okay, Clarence, you bring him in. I said, we tell you this. Every time I see that kid, I want to see you. I want to see you, hand in hand, locked up. Period. Anything happens, he fall down the stairs or something. Berry's going to kill me and I'm going to kill you anyway. Move the story on a little bit. I'm in the studio. Be having a session. It's winding down. Okay. Guys are playing. They're just tuning out, you know, having a good time. Clarence comes in with Stevie. Wonder had him by the hand, walks into the studio, took him over to the drums. Many Ben's been looked at him. They got the feeling that he may want to play the drums. So Ben, drums. So Benny got up. Stevie sat down, filled the drums with his hands where they were and everything. Now the van is still kind of winding down. He went right into the pocket, right on the pocket. He made a run. Everybody's look shocked. Took him by the hand the drummer sitting down. Now, not a drummer's cooking again, now that a bass player is coming. And said, Well, yeah, this guy's pretty good. Then he Clarence walks him over to the organ. Earl van dykes on an organ. He can see him coming. Earl got out the way. Stevie said, down the organs, dropped around. Everything was went right into the groove. Do. And just like, like, it never not a band is cooking right then he made it. Run, got up off the drone, off the organ, walk. Claire took him over to the microphone. Stevie reaches in his pocket, pulls out his harmonica and start blowing it. Now, the band is cooking now, because everybody's fired up, moved the mic. He said, Oh, baby, why don't you? Why don't said, Wow, I leave the room, go to my office. That's the story told about a girl to call my life, find out about taking on a kid at a certain age and all that kind of stuff. So I had to get my details together. I go right to Berry Gordy had a talk with him, and that's how we got Stevie Wonder in the Motown. Isn't

Michelle Stevenson 20:43

that amazing story? That's why it's one of my favorites.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:47

It's not only amazing, but like, even when you see, like, the footage of Stevie Wonder that young doing that, it's still almost, it's not, you know, it's hard to how does a 10 year old like? It's like, it's amazing

Mickey Stevenson 21:00

gifts. God's gifts to us. We have gifts. Oh, period, come here with gifts.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:05

I just, I know, I just, I wish I had one of those. I

Mickey Stevenson 21:09

You got one. That's why you're talking over this microphone. That's true.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:12

That's true. Michelle was talking about her family and inspiring her with music. And I know Mickey, you have the same story with your mom, that's definitely something that you haven't in common. So music has always been kind of both part of both of your lives, probably part of what eventually brought you together. All right, so if you married a few years and you you were together when you were inducted, because it was only a couple years ago, into the songwriting song writers Hall of Fame. Yes, that must have been amazing, because, like, when I watched some of the clips, like when you watch like Berry Gordy talking about you Mickey or smokey, one of the common themes is that you didn't get your due. You had such an impact. And when you just, you just kind of look into it. It's like putting together the Funk Brothers, like everything you've done. Did you feel like this was one of those things? And, and Michelle, what was it like being there to, you know, to have him, like, just be honored. Or you're like, oh, Mariah Carey's also here?

Mickey Stevenson 22:15

Well, oh, boy, I don't know about it. I was shocked to start with. And when they asked me to speak, I went to receive the Word and smokey, I was even more surprised. Smokey introduced me to the Hall of Fame and did one of my songs, one of my songs that he always loved to do. I was in shock when

Michelle Stevenson 22:33

he sang the tune, my baby loves me. Yeah, my baby loves me.

Mickey Stevenson 22:36

Oh yeah. He sang the song with the band of the whole nine yards, and he brought me up to receive the award. And the most amazing thing was I was taken away breath wise. I didn't know what to say, other than the fact that I appreciate the award. I think it's phenomenal and all that. And I said, but these are gifts from God. What I did is a gift. And I found out the gift, so I use it, and I said it. I'm sure you in this audience understand, because every one of you in this audience have had these gifts, or you wouldn't be sitting at this place at this time. I took it from there. Are you with me?

Jeff Dwoskin 23:11

Oh yeah,

Michelle Stevenson 23:12

it was an honor to be there, and it's always honor for me to see him acknowledge and appreciate it. I feel like he's done so much. He's humble in a lot of ways. It's just important for him to people to know the things that he's done, because he has a lot in him, and he's still creating, you know, even today, he amazes me to observe him and just creating, you know, things I go to him with and and sometimes I be like, I'm going to give you a couple of lyrics. Make a song out of this. Okay? Make it this way, that way, because he just so shocked, like he said, It's a gift from God. It's inspiring for me to see him be honored. Really, great. Sorry.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:49

To interrupt my amazing conversation with Mickey and Michelle, I have to take quick break. I do want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors, you're supporting us here at Classic conversations, and that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my amazing conversation with Michelle and Mickey Stevenson, so Michelle, what are some of the things that you think are should be more well known than about Mickey? Like of the things you just mentioned

Michelle Stevenson 24:17

his discipline when he's working on a project, he doesn't stop until that project is complete. And anybody around him during that time, if you're a part of that project, he's going to work the hell out of you too. This project will be done. You know, his commitment to what he believes in, some of the things I need, I would love to be told about him. Once he sees something that's not working, he will alter it, like he lost 70 pounds since we've been together, like he was eating like lamb chops and steak and all of that. But when he's, you know, realized that you can have all this stuff, but do you want a long, happy, healthy life, or do you want to eat all this stuff, and, you know, things like that. So he will make the necessary adjustments. And just, you know, just, he has so many creative gifts. It's just amazing. And the way he was in Motown, of course, I wasn't there, but I believe he's even better now to be able to just make up songs and listen to things, listen to music, and he'll be like, do you hear that string, the arrow? Do you like? He can hear things that nobody else can hear that's just his mastery. And not just that ability to music, but able to direct and create and movie wise. And he's able to go in the room and assess what's missing, not just what's missing in a negative way, but what's missing that this will make a difference if you do it that way.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:39

So with his discipline and perfection, was there any tension when you guys were recording the song? Because I know, like my wife and I, if we get something from Ikea, there's an 80% chance we're getting divorced.

Michelle Stevenson 25:58

Well, I think with that, I think there has been tension with other things that we were working on songs, but with this one, we're so in alignment with the purpose. Somebody asked me, How do I fail singing that song? I said, I feel like I'm singing for Maya, Angelou, Josephine Baker, Rosa Parks, you know, people that are not here, people that really stood for African American people, and for us to be in our rightful place, or equality and stuff like that. So I think the purpose of the song, I think like there were some insecurities in the beginning, like, Can I do it? Because he wants bigness. He wants me to come out, you know, sing this really gutsy type of voice in some parts of the songs, things that I didn't know that was in me. And people say to me, I grew. I didn't know you could sing that powerful. And I said, I didn't either. He said, I did. You know what I mean. So like that.

Jeff Dwoskin 26:47

So you listen to it now and go, like, Ah, damn. That is me. And like,

Michelle Stevenson 26:53

like, be like, hey, also too. We just did the remix of the song, and I'm able, really, to hear my voice in a different way as well. So it's a hip hop remix, because we want to get to everybody. Where

Jeff Dwoskin 27:05

can people hear the song? Now, is it on all the streams? Because somebody sent me, I got sent it. So, because I'm fancy, I got sent it.

Michelle Stevenson 27:12

It's on all the streams. It's on YouTube, Spotify Apple Music. It's on all the streams. And the hip hop version will be out. I mean, it's out. People can download it. That's on all the platforms. It's on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok,

Jeff Dwoskin 27:28

awesome. Can I ask another Motown question? Would that be okay? He

Michelle Stevenson 27:31

loves he Oh, that's that thing you should know. He loves talking about himself. So feel free. Oh, okay.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:41

You know, it's interesting that, like, you know, when I said earlier, you know, the the smoky and saying you're the unsung hero you were, you know, like in that. But interestingly enough, you discovered the Funk Brothers, which are also probably one of the most influential, was a band. Is band the right way to say it? And like, or a group of musicians put together that also completely unsung, and they, I think most people didn't even know about and so that the documentary that they did, and then when that came out, which I learned from your book, most of the actual, real ones weren't even in the movie, or anything like that. Or you two questions, one is one thing's always, I've always wondered, is, and correct me if I'm wrong, if it's just in my head, wrong. But like, what was it about Detroit that every single person in Detroit seemed to be amazing? I mean, because you also even had, I mean, Aretha is not, wasn't Motown, but like, she was there too, right? I mean, she was, like, all of these people just happened to be on this neighborhood, and they're like, like, how does this happen? But

Mickey Stevenson 28:47

you named it right. Remember, at that time in Detroit, the black people lived in a certain area period. If you step out of that area, you better tell the police where you're going and why you're going. So we all kind of come up in a certain area. Now they had a few of those areas like here. Then they had a at the Eight Mile Road area there. And so that's that was our it was our space. So we got to know each other, whether you like it or not. You know, I'm saying the talented side was with Aretha, of course, the father being his ministers and all that and singing. So we all kind of knew each other. And the key was to find those who really wanted to do something other than grow up work in a factory or something. So it was kind of put together for a purpose. Shall we sing? For me, it was to find those people that would listen to what I'm talking about, especially with the gifts that they had, it kind of was, I would say, meant to be. Are you following me?

Michelle Stevenson 29:47

That is a great question. That is amazing. That's something I'm even thinking about now that you asked them that, like Diana Ross in the same area,

Unknown Speaker 29:55

right down the

Michelle Stevenson 29:56

smoking Robinson, Stevie, wonder. Is, yeah, we

Mickey Stevenson 30:01

all grew up in the same kind of place. If you stepped across that line in those days, you better answer the question to the police, where you going and why you going.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:10

But that doesn't make you the singers of a generation and an entire sound, just because, right? I mean, like, you could grab any group of like, oh, all these people in this square miles, it's like, I don't got Motown. Was it a combination of, they happen to have the skills that Berry Gordy and you happen to also be there, to be able to pull their God given talents in the right direction? You know? Is it like this whole, you know, I'm saying it's like, well,

Mickey Stevenson 30:36

I hear where you coming from, and the only answer that I have and that I believe in. This was all meant for a purpose, and we were the individuals chosen for this purpose, and those that didn't fall into the line of the purpose. Somehow we either passed them on or they left. But it was meant to go this way. This was now, this is my approach, my way. This was Spirit of the Lord. But it's to happen. And those that came in had special gifts. And we didn't argue about the gifts. We accepted the gifts. For me as an A and R man, when I saw the gift, you may come in as a writer, and you were playing the song that you wrote, and you sing it to me, I would say to you, I won't sign you. Sign you as a writer, but I'll take you as a singer, or reverse you come in as a singer, but the song is great. I said, who wrote the song? I did. Okay. I won't sign you as a singer, but I'll take you as a writer. This was meant to be, shall we say, Are you with me,

Jeff Dwoskin 31:35

right? That's kind of what happened to you, right? I mean, you were singing, and Berry's like, yeah, you're not going to be singing. And no, no, no.

Michelle Stevenson 31:43

He was waiting. He was waiting to say that part, Mickey,

Jeff Dwoskin 31:50

you kind of teed it up a bit.

Mickey Stevenson 31:52

Told me my voice was shit. I'm packed all my stuff on the floor ready to get out of his office. Say, wait a minute. Where you going? I didn't want to hear nothing else. He had to say. He said, Your song sounds pretty good.

Unknown Speaker 32:08

Oh,

Jeff Dwoskin 32:09

yeah, Mickey, when you were listening to people, and they were coming in and out, and you were making the decisions, rapid fire, is there any of note people that you like that you passed on, and you're like, Oh, I missed, I missed that one. Uh,

Michelle Stevenson 32:24

they became big later because you said, no, they wasn't

Mickey Stevenson 32:28

for me. Thank God now everybody that I took. The only thing I can say is some may have come for one reason, but I signed them for another. You know what I mean? Alright,

Jeff Dwoskin 32:38

so you didn't, you didn't let anyone, anyone get away. So, because that's what you were, the number one, A and R, man, so that makes sense. But I was just sometimes you're like, Oh yeah, you know, like, whoever comes in and, like, they go on to so when you put together the Funk Brothers, like, what was the need for the Funk Brothers that were you were putting together?

Mickey Stevenson 32:57

Well, me coming as a kid, grew up in the music world, you're my mother's singer, and I'm still hearing just great bands and stuff like that. When I saw the set the musicians that we had, I said, I gotta get a better bass player. I gotta get a better so I just went to work, looking, I went to clubs, finding the people that I thought, first of all, they had to be able to read the music. The gift is one thing, and reading is another. You put the two together, you got a winner. You know what I mean? I was saying that because we can't feel every song. We gotta know the song at least when the writer writes it, there's certain notes kind of getting into holding together. So I had that, that problem. So anyway, I went through all over the city and close to other cities, in every club, finding each individual guy, I would go and listen, if I had an idea, like with James Jamison, the bass player, which was one of my was amazing. I went to his place about four or five times. I liked the way he played, but I couldn't quite put my finger on him. And by the I think about the fourth time when I'm sitting there watching him, I walked up to him, you know, on the break, and I said, I see that you are singing every note before you play it. Why do you do that? He said, Because I'm singing the song. I said, but you don't even know the song. You just praying that? He said, But I'm singing the song in my head so I can play when I'm singing. I said, that's incredible. So I hired him. When he gave me that reason, I took him on then. So that's my guy. Yep, do

Michelle Stevenson 34:22

you find everybody in the club? Because you found me in a club too.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:27

I think we found his secret Exactly. We're the

Mickey Stevenson 34:30

source of it. So that was a point with the put the with the drum ones in the bay, each one I went after for a purpose, so I can pull them together as one unit. And it started happening even my guitar player, Joe Messina, I said, Okay, Joe, he was a great with the hands and fingers, was all over the place. So I asked him, man, I like for you to come and be with one of the musicians with us. I said, Well, what I like for you to do is just stay straight on whatever the groove is. You never leave it. Don't make call. Dollars. Just stay with the group, because you'll be an anchor. So then everybody find anchors, then they can add to that, if everybody's going around doing stuff, then it turns into a whole other sound. And sure enough, Joe became the anchor. And James, Jameson, was he saying his notes? I mean, they he would be singing as he played. So when you put that together with each person with that kind of a focus, turns into a little ball game. They became a sound of their own. Are you with me? Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:29

I mean, it's amazing, though. But then, like, just the, then the mythos, and then later, like, they, Oh my God, these guys played on more number ones than what was it like the Beatles and The Beach Boys and the stones and Elvis combined, like, but then no one knew who they were. Yeah,

Mickey Stevenson 35:45

they broke records, yeah, but we played. I mean, we had sessions. We played all day. No, no stop, yeah. One

Jeff Dwoskin 35:51

kind of trivia that I had always heard was that Martha Reeves was an assistant, like, worked at Motown, so it's like, lovely when you, like, stumble onto me, like, like, Oh, I'm reading your book, and I'm like, Oh, now I it was Mickey's assistant. I love the story of how you cut dancing in the streets. That's like, one of the that's a great, great story in the book as well, is just how Martha undeniably sounded like, how did you to at least get to that point and then, like,

Mickey Stevenson 36:25

she she wouldn't leave. What she when she kicked she got, I gave her a job. Of course, it's in the book. But the bottom line is, I said, you know, I work kind of late. She says I hired her as my assistant. And

Michelle Stevenson 36:37

you said that the other assistant tricked her mother into remember you said the other lady,

Mickey Stevenson 36:45

my real, my real Assistant Secretary, was leaving, and her and her husband was going to another city, and so she wanted to find somebody that could work with me. So she was attached to Martha, because Martha would come constantly to audition. And I'm saying, Enough girls. I'm done. I'm done. My secretary brought her in, and I come to my office, and Martha's on the phone, answering phone calls, and it was all set up for me. You know what I mean? When she finished, we got we started talking, and I told her I would not take her as a as an artist, but I give her a job as my assistant, as a secretary. She said, No, she had a word for that. Anyway, she took the job so that way she could stay around longer and keep hounding me to resign her the hardest. And that's how that came about. But she was very good, though she was very good too. That's a great example

Jeff Dwoskin 37:38

of someone believing in their own talent and not giving up, and thank goodness she didn't, right? Yeah,

Michelle Stevenson 37:44

yeah. And then also, the song was actually for Kim Weston right there in the street. Yeah, because Martha was there in the building, she got the

Mickey Stevenson 37:53

job. Yeah, she wouldn't leave. Martha say, I told her. I said, Well, I still, I stay all night sometimes. So you she says, Listen, I'm taking this job, and I leave when you leave. I said, but that could be 1011, o'clock at night. She says, I leave when you leave. And she never changed that, if I'm downstairs in the studio recording, she'd be upstairs working. Very fortunate, though, because when we finished this song, Marvin Gaye said, Well, what you going to do, man? You know, we gotta get a special voice by special sound like that. Kim. I said, You know what? I'll have Martha make a demo, and then she'll take that, and then she'll study it and get it down. And he said, well, where's Martha? I said, She's upstairs working. This is late at night, right? I hollered. She came down from the office. Randall, good. Good. Got right into it. Perfect timing for her, though, was when she finished the overdose, Clarence looked at me, and Abby, Joe looked at him, and we looked at each other, and they said, Did you hear what I heard? I said, Yeah, I heard what you heard. And that was beginning, that was beginning of the song, and Martha that

Jeff Dwoskin 38:55

part of the book. I love that story specifically because I could feel how you guys were in that room, and the angst that you needed to go now get out of having Kim Weston, because you had just heard perfection. And it was like, this was you talk about gifts being handed down. This was an example, right? Where this just was magic. It was a great story where at the end where, like, she's just like, I don't even like that. So Kim's like, I don't even like that song. And then you're like, oh, then you don't have to record it, huh?

Unknown Speaker 39:28

The good way out for me, brother, yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:32

A really funny, funny story. I know I've kept you for a long time. I can you share one? Marvin Gaye story, like, maybe whatever your favorite one, or if Michelle, you have a favorite one you want to prompt him with? Yeah,

Michelle Stevenson 39:43

I will prompt him with this one I want you to tell the Marvin Gaye story, the one when Marvin Gaye didn't want to do stubbing kind of fella or that and do all the parts. Are you singing with Marvin Gaye? Are you inspired him to sing R and B when he wanted to be a blues?

Mickey Stevenson 39:59

Yeah? We. When Berry and I were talking about, we know we took, we took over Anna's records. That was Berry's sister's label, Marvin Gaye and Lamont Dozier was on that label. She had a lot of other artists, but so we took the label. So Berry said to me, okay, man, I let you get a hit on this guy right here. And and the Marvin had a whole another attitude of what, how he wanted to be like Andy Williams, kind of singer and all that. Then, I mean, and I said, so anyway. So when I heard him, I said, Okay. And I told Berry, okay, man, this gonna come. Berry not bet on everything. We bet $500 something, everything. So, yeah, I said, Yeah, okay, just gonna be a it's $1,000 on this deal. He said, $1,000 I say, Listen, this going to be a job. This guy's got a he got an attitude. He wants to be like somebody else. I gotta get him out of that. No, no. $1,000 on this deal. He said, You gotta bet Nice. Marvin can't standing right there listening to this conversation. Anyway, anyway. Very electrical when I said, Okay, man, we gotta get to know each other, he said it was letting me know, like he heard everything we were talking about. And so he was set not to do nothing that I was going to say. And I said, we gotta get to know each other. I told him. I said, you're a writer, I'm a writer. Let's write some songs together. So he said, You'll write songs with me. I said, Yeah, you you're a writer. And so that, I said, we get to know each other. So I started with that point of view. And anyway, we were writing songs and discover kind of fellas. Song I was writing with him. I sang my line soulfully. He sang his all proper. I said, No, no, no, no, no, tell him how you sing it. You gotta go to church. You gotta, you gotta. I say, you come out to church. Go back to church. If I say, I try to put palms around you all, because I want to hold you tight. And then he sings his line. And every time I read, okay, you gotta go to church, go like you said. And every time I read for you, baby, I want to hear that kind of scene. Don't go no other way. I said. You can do that other stuff, some other song, but this song's gotta go like that. So I'd sing a line. Then he make up his line. He sing a line anyway. Cut his long story short, after about a week working on these songs, I took a razor blade and cut out all my verses were in those days they had to take recorded with this. They had to raise, cut the razor. I cut all mine out and closed the ball and closed all his together. And then he came in that morning. I said, I want you to listen to something. And I pressed the button, and he heard himself singing consecutively, very soulful, because all the other lines were out. I said, Now, why don't you do this tune? Take me off the hook with Berry, and I'll do the jazz album on you. He said, okay, okay, alright. I say, now. He said, I mean, I sing it like you want. I say, you sing it like this, and then in those days you have the earphones on, I can sing it on the mic in your ear, and you can hear it and still be recording. I say, I'll do it for you, and you just put it together. Have you missed a place? I'll let you know. You go back, dub it in. Cut a long story short, we did it and I taped it all together, and I told Berry. I said, Give me my money. He said, give you your money. I said, $1,000 with $1,000 he said, you crazy. I ain't heard nothing. I said, here's the CD. Go upstairs, play it. He goes upstairs, he plays the record. He come back down, reaching his pocket, taking out the money. Say, how'd you do that? I said, you don't want to know. And that's how Robin King was stubborn kind of fell because he was a stubborn kind of fella, yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 43:27

that is a great story. So great. So great. Uh, thank you both for hanging out with me. I can't thank you enough.

Michelle Stevenson 43:33

Been a pleasure.

Mickey Stevenson 43:34

Wait a minute, we're closing. We I got a couple more things to say. No, just

Jeff Dwoskin 43:40

say I got

Mickey Stevenson 43:42

part two. We'll have a part two later.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:44

I could talk to you both all day Motown. I'll put a link in the in the show notes, if you want to hear Michelle's powerhouse vocals, put Kamala in the White House, and then Mickey's amazing words. And so the combination these two brought together. And Mickey's book that we've referenced a million times, Motown's first A and R man presents the A and R man love that book. He didn't know I was gonna read it, but I read it because

Mickey Stevenson 44:11

I just get on Amazon. I didn't get it on Amazon Kindle. I

Jeff Dwoskin 44:15

got on Kindle. It's like,

Mickey Stevenson 44:16

oh my god, yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 44:19

yeah. You're big time. You're a big time. You're like, oh yeah. And so you guys awesome. I hope this song explodes. I hope we can get that Kamala hears it, and then hopefully we'll all be dancing in the streets. You guys are awesome.

Michelle Stevenson 44:35

And I'll also send you the remix. I'll make sure that you get the remix. Okay,

Jeff Dwoskin 44:39

I would love that. I love that. I love, I love the two years vibe, by the way, you guys, oh, thank

Michelle Stevenson 44:43

you. It was a pleasure being with you. And you know your vibe is amazing too.

Mickey Stevenson 44:48

You have a great face. You have a great aura around you, around you don't

Michelle Stevenson 44:52

compliment them too much.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:56

That might be the lighting, too. I mean. Yeah,

thank you.

Michelle Stevenson 45:05

Thank you. It's an honor to interview us, especially with this specific, you know topic. It's a sensitive topic for some people, so we acknowledge you for your stand and interviewing us. It is a pleasure. Yeah, thank

Mickey Stevenson 45:17

you. Thank you through this all day

Jeff Dwoskin 45:20

with you? Yeah, you want to keep going. We can keep going. I bet you guys got other stuff to do too. All right, how amazing was my conversation with Michelle and Mickey Stevenson. Definitely check out their song. Put Kamala in the White House, as we talked about in the episode, what's important is that everyone get out there and vote. Also, if you're a lover of Motown history like myself, definitely check out Mickey's book. Motown's first A and R man presents the A and R man so many amazing stories in that book. You are going to love it. Well, that's it. You can check out the song. There'll be a link in the show notes. Huge. Thank you to Michelle and Mickey for hanging out with me and sharing all the great stories and huge thank you to all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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