#244 Gale Anne Hurd discusses Terminators, Aliens and The Walking Dead

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Julie, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get this show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 244 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be Wait, let me say Great to have you back. For what shirts have be one of the classicus episodes of all time producer of Terminator and Terminator two is here. Gale Anne Hurd, founder of Valhalla entertainment, legendary film and television producer, The Walking Dead Fear the Walking Dead producer of the best Punisher aliens. The list goes on and on. And we're diving in and just a few seconds, and in these few seconds, I do want to remind everyone of my amazing conversation last week with Howie Lublin and Mark Gagliardi two amazing guests one awesome show don't miss that one but the no Miss event at the moment is my conversation right now Galan heard, we're diving deep into Terminator aliens, Roger Corman and the hidden gem dick, which is a Richard Nixon comedy dying, cursed and dance. We got it on this episode, so many great stories from some of your favorite movies of all time coming up right now. All right, I'm excited to introduce my next guest film and television producer, founder of Valhalla entertainment, arguably one of the most successful and influential producers in the world. On her journey she's broken new ground on the depiction of women in screen executive producer Fear the Walking Dead The Walking Dead Man killer tremors producer of Terminator Terminator to the abyss, Punisher Armageddon, I could go on and on. Welcome to the show. Gale Anne Hurd.

Gale Anne Hurd 2:27

Thank you. Good to be here.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:29

Hi, Gail. As I kind of look at IMDb, it's every movie that I've ever watched in love.

Gale Anne Hurd 2:38

Well, you missed aliens and the introduction. That's one of my favorites.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:42

You're right. I did miss aliens. It's right there aliens. I got excited towards the end. It was on the next slide. But I'm ready to talk about aliens is one of my favorite movies. I rewatched a bunch just because you know, it's sometimes it's been a while since you've seen these I rewatched aliens recently and Terminator. And one movie that I was excited to see that was on your list that I didn't realize that I had loved is Dick. The political satire?

Gale Anne Hurd 3:09

Yes. Yeah, indeed. Before we knew that Mark Felt was deep throat.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:14

I rewatched it I had well, I remember Kirsten Dunst because I remember or however that I forgot that it was and her and Michelle Williams. I mean, the cast is it's a crazy cast. I mean, it's a great comedy cast. Yeah,

Gale Anne Hurd 3:26

I mean, Will Ferrell Ryan Reynolds, it was pretty great. We had a lot of fun making that film in Toronto,

Jeff Dwoskin 3:33

did you choose that one? Because it's so different than so many other types of movies that you were doing, like, I mean, it's obviously way different than Terminator and aliens and and all those SCI Fi's,

Gale Anne Hurd 3:45

the CO writer and director Andrew Fleming is someone whose career I started way back when he wrote and directed a little horror film that I produced Fox called Bad dreams. And when he got the green light for the project, he reached out to Mike Medavoy, who was an executive producer and financier through through his company, Phoenix and said, you know, we really need someone on set who can produce the film, and they both came to me. So it was it was great to reunite both with Mike Medavoy as well. As with Andy,

Jeff Dwoskin 4:19

do you enjoy doing comedy? Was it? Yeah, absolutely.

Gale Anne Hurd 4:23

Absolutely. I mean, it's certainly not my net ta so to speak, but the cast was so fantastic. And it's second nature to Andy. The only complaint that I had was that at one point we shot a couple of days in Washington DC during the summer, it was about 110 and incredibly humid and the scenes we were filming there had a band in them and the four band members are in wool uniforms, and they were dropping like flies.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:53

That's really funny. Yeah, they said like some Grade Center a live folks. And a gasifier Will Ferrell kids. In the hall de Foley Sal Ruben EK. Yep. The only thing difficult about this movie is the name of it to just kind of throw Hey, did you know but I know in the movie, it's funny because that is a hey, did you see Jack and but in the movie they kind of play. There's a whole thread where they're just making fun of that fact. Well,

Gale Anne Hurd 5:18

I think we should point out here to people who may not know it's about Richard Nixon and the downfall of Richard Nixon, because he missed treats his dog and the two young women played by Michelle Williams and Kiersten dogs are his dog walkers

Jeff Dwoskin 5:34

to kind of stumble in and it's in a Forrest Gump kind of way sort of pushed along a lot of the events that that became very synonymous with Richard Nixon and that whole Watergate time period there. It's a cute movie. It was it was fun to that's one of the great things about kind of doing this show is kind of re diving into a lot of things that I have maybe not seen for a while, but I remember this one a lot. I think I had a big crush on Kirsten Dunst from this movie, Gail, how did you go from Stanford University economics and QA communications major to filmmaker with so many achievements?

Gale Anne Hurd 6:12

I'm assuming you're not asking. It was like a Mercury comment that I drove down from Stanford to Los Angeles. I'm assuming that's not the answer you're looking for. I actually have two degrees. My second one is in communications and communications at Stanford is where film and television is. And I attended a intensive program in British film broadcasting when I was at the Foreign Study campus in Britain, because being monolingual was the only foreign canvas that I could actually take classes at. And I was blessed because of two people ultimately three, but two initially. The first is Julian Blaustein the late Julian Blaustein, who was a professor at Stanford and the communications department and put together the program at Stanford in Britain. And then he actually became both my mentor and my advisor. He produced the original Day The Earth Stood Still. So we shared a love of science fiction going way back. We came back to Stanford and I had to finish the rest of my degree in a year and I took three courses from a particular Professor Steven Kovacs, and one of them was called five American directors, which was kind of funny because one of the directors was Alfred Hitchcock, of course, was not American. He was still synonymous with the American films that he made as opposed to British and I also wrote my thesis on 2001 A Space Odyssey directed by Stanley Kubrick and Steven Kovacs went to work for Roger Corman as Head of Production. And when Roger was looking for an assistant, Steven Kovacs recommended me, I sent him my paper on Stanley Kubrick and 2001. He liked it and I got hired

Jeff Dwoskin 7:54

Roger Corman, I'm coming to you from Michigan. He's from Detroit, Michigan. Yes, he is. He also went to Stanford. So is that the connection with Steven callbacks? Are they

Gale Anne Hurd 8:04

it was he he had his degree is actually in chemical engineering. I mean, he didn't always choose Stanford grads, but he was looking for someone who recently graduated from the program and and I think because I had taken three courses over one school year from Kovacs, I think I was top of mind.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:23

So when you got that call to interview that was just kind of out of the blue. Professor Kovacs had just thought, hey, I know someone, they'll be good hair, Roger, and then they just reached out to you.

Gale Anne Hurd 8:34

Yeah, he didn't have my phone number. So I actually got a letter back when the US Postal Service delivered reliably

Jeff Dwoskin 8:40

physically. Now it's a physical email for anyone listening. It's always interesting to kind of think of like, the threads, right? So like, what if,

Gale Anne Hurd 8:50

if I had moved, I would never have gotten that letter and I wouldn't have become a filmmaker,

Jeff Dwoskin 8:56

or if Roger had gone to another college or university.

Gale Anne Hurd 8:59

Right? And if he'd hired someone other than Steven Kovacs,

Jeff Dwoskin 9:03

what did you think you were going to be before you got the call? Where might you have ended up? I thought I was gonna go to law school. Okay. Alright. So Roger Corman, he brings you in and you get the job. You started as his assistant, what were some of the things that he had you doing? What was it like working for Roger Corman because eventually you kind of move your way up?

Gale Anne Hurd 9:24

Well, you either move your way up, or you were kicked out, though, there are only two possible career paths when he went to work for Roger. From the beginning. Not only did I have to answer the phone and place phone calls for him, but I would write notes on treatments and screenplays, I would look at rough cuts and do notes. I have to admit I didn't know what a rough cut was. So my initial notes were incredibly pathetic and embarrassing, cuz I didn't understand the post production process. I'd only taken one production course at Stanford, I would put together task list for films, I would interview actors and audition them. I would do location scouting, I would babysit his kids, I would oversee household repairs, I would pick up and take in his dry cleaning. So it's pretty much soup to nuts.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:16

And so it seems that at being part of the Roger Corman world, like when you mentioned doing the notes, and really knowing what rough cuts were, did he value more the reaction to learning even from a mistake to really kind of judge character to move you forward? Versus had you just known and maybe knock those notes out the first time? It was constantly I would imagine him just kind of saying, This is how Gail's handling this? The notes were horrible. But this then this was the pivot of that from Gail. And those

Gale Anne Hurd 10:46

other notes were good.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:48

Well, I imagine you were amazing. Notes on on content,

Gale Anne Hurd 10:51

were pretty good. But you know, there were a few glaring errors. But you know what, Roger, Roger was a great boss, and he prepared you in many ways for Hollywood. And then I was unprepared for others. Other things. So the first thing was, he would be very abrupt. He wouldn't say we're stupid. But of course, that was the subtext. But believe me, you didn't make the same mistake twice. He would explain what you've done wrong. And that isn't always the case. Some people would just, you know, grab the notes and say, these are terrible, and you learn nothing. But the other remarkable thing was that having worked in my first job for Roger Corman, I assumed that there was gender equality in Hollywood, because there was at Roger Corman's New World Pictures.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:43

And that's an anomaly at this time in this timeframe, right. Oh, it's

Gale Anne Hurd 11:47

still an anomaly.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:50

Really back then. Yeah.

Gale Anne Hurd 11:52

I mean, the first film that where I worked on set was humanoids from the deep which was directed by a woman. Many of the films back then were directed by women written by women edited by women. And I didn't think that was unusual. There was no internet you couldn't look at look things up on IMDb didn't exist. So you, you essentially learned through firsthand experience, and it was a really big shock to me when I encountered discrimination. Once I'd left Rogers

Jeff Dwoskin 12:24

was the first kind of real discrimination went with aliens.

Gale Anne Hurd 12:28

Yes. I mean, I was I was quite lucky because Terminator was one step away from Roger Corman's. The person who shepherded the project was Barbara Boyle, who had been essentially the Chief Operating Officer at new role pictures. I knew her incredibly well, she was one of the people I reported to. And then our story editor, Francis dole, she'd gone to work for Barbara at Orion Pictures. Mike Medavoy does not have any discriminatory bones in his body. So I you know, I went from this safe environment to another safe environment making Terminator although we had a woman line producer, Donna Smith, which was unusual at the time, we had a woman first assistant director, on Terminator also pretty novel. And ultimately, though, one of the finit other finance ears wanted a male presence because too many NRR accountant was a woman. So essentially, of the production management team were women. So anyway, this financier insisted that we have an executive in charge of the production, who believe that work hours are nine to five. Needless to say, those are not the work hours on set, but he has a cameo in the Terminator and he plays the guy at the police department that, you know, Terminator Arnold says I'll be back to before he crashes into the into the into the building.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:59

You're working the desk. Right, right as he walks in. Yeah, okay. Yep.

Gale Anne Hurd 14:03

So yeah, so aliens was a shock. Literally, I would have crew members that were we were looking at for heads of department, say to me, I won't work for a woman. And I would say, well, then you won't work on this movie. And then they would call the late Tim Hampton, who has had a 20 Century Fox in the UK who magnificent man back me up to the hilt, who said she's right. She's because they say Well, Tim, are you really producing the movie? And he'd say, No, she is. Well, but but and and I didn't assume that would happen. Because at the time Maggie Thatcher was the prime minister. And I figured Of course, the UK must be much more enlightened than the US because I couldn't imagine a woman president at the time. So yeah, there was a lot of as they call it whinging about having to report to a woman is the producer

Jeff Dwoskin 14:52

and apparently they ignored your credit, right? I mean, I know you're just building the credit the time but you had Terminator, which was huge.

Gale Anne Hurd 14:59

Yeah. hadn't seen Terminator, so we set up a screening for them. And then they kept calling Jim Cameron, who never became a US citizen is Canadian. They kept calling him to yank. You can just imagine. I mean, here's this guy's not even, he's not even American, they're calling in the Yank rolling their eyes calling him governor. So we set up a screening and almost no one came.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:22

It's amazing how short sighted and and small thinking people can be. Oh,

Gale Anne Hurd 15:27

man. Well, we had the last laugh. So

Jeff Dwoskin 15:31

I would say So going on to create one of the greatest sequels, probably one of the best sci fi movies of all time. They're on top of the other amazing stuff. Sorry to interrupt, but we have to take a quick break. I want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my incredible conversation with gale Anne Hurd. We're gonna dive a little bit more into that Canadian that Gail was talking about, and we're back. So this Canadian you talked of James Cameron. You've met him also working at Roger Corman's studio as well. Right? Is on your on Battle beyond the stars? That's correct. Yes. Yep. The way I've heard the story. So you kind of I don't wanna say I haven't discovered the right word. But I mean, you were like, you kind of saw the talent and made Roger aware of it.

Gale Anne Hurd 16:26

Well, Roger was the first person to identify the talent because Jim had an inquiry to work on one of his films. And he had sent his short films into Genesis, which I'm not sure if you've seen but you if you haven't, you should. I really encourage everyone listening to check out Jim's films in Genesis. And Roger was impressed. So we hired him to work in the model shop on Battle beyond the stars where he was building spaceship props. He was one of the model builders, I don't even believe he was head of the model shop. But I went over, Roger asked me to go find out how how things were coming in the world of visual effects. And I walked into the facility, which was at 1920 Main Street in Venice, California. And this tall blonde gentleman came over and showed me around, I was totally impressed. And then I went back and reported to Roger that things were in fantastic shape. And, you know, the head of the model shop had given me a tour. And I think he's the one who disabuse me of the fact that Jim was not the head of the model shop. And I'm sure I said, I believe that I think he shouldn't be. But then I segwayed over and was the assistant Production Manager on the film. And we were having issues with the art department because the person that Roger had hired wasn't also a drafts person could not actually draw the sets and design them. He came from the studio system was used to hiring people to do that while on a Roger Corman budget, you do it yourself. And we were only a few weeks from shooting. And Roger said, Well, what do you suggest we do? And I said, I know this is out of left field, but the person has actually designed all the miniatures. Kim Cameron is an amazing artist, we should elevate him. And that's how he became the art director

Jeff Dwoskin 18:18

has a great story. Are you and are you Head of Marketing at this point?

Gale Anne Hurd 18:22

No, no, no, no, I hadn't. I had already been head of marketing, which I was, I would say, marginally acceptable at it was not my strength. But it was certainly important to understand how it works for my future career as a producer. But it was not something for which I have significant talent. So I was afraid I might get fired. So I made Roger make a deal that I would take on the position for six months while we looked for a permanent, actually talented person to take on that role. And then I would start working on set. But I probably came within a week or so of being fired. And we found someone and I was able to then go work on humanoids from the deep as a production assistant. And then I worked on battleground the stars. And I would go back in between and work for Roger in the office.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:13

Got it? Do you really think you would have been fired or you just kind of feel that way? In hindsight?

Gale Anne Hurd 19:18

It's hard to say, but I'm glad it did. Teach me to try to pre negotiate as much as possible. Always have a plan B.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:27

So during Ballard stars, you're working with James Cameron, can I call him Jim? Or is that just yet to be close? I feel like I need

Gale Anne Hurd 19:35

you know, everyone who knows him calls him Jim. So you you do what you feel most comfortable with? And I'm gonna call him Jim.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:42

I didn't want to overstep you guys kind of made a pact together to make the film that eventually became Terminator. You found that your you kind of gelled early with working together.

Gale Anne Hurd 19:53

Well, I ended up being assigned to the visual effects and the art department. Those were My areas of oversight, and Jim was heavily involved in both. So we, we had to stay on budget always a challenge. It meant that since the art department was so far behind because of the previous art director that our department had to run 24 hours, and I mean, I would even pick up, they call them the Hudson sprayer to spray sets. I mean, that is not normally what someone does as a production manager. But it had to be done. And I was willing to stay up all night and do it. Jim learned to trust me, I learned to trust him. We finished everything with paint drying the first day of principal photography, which was a incredible feat. I have to say, all of those 1819 hour days we would we would talk about what we wanted to do in the future. And I said I wanted to produce he wanted to direct and we both agreed that we would get a first film under our belt before we partnered so I produced a film for Roger Corman called smokey bites the dust. Not smoking the bandit but a shall we say homage and Jim of course directed prana to the spawning. But we didn't have the idea. That idea for Terminator did not exist at that point.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:12

Legend has it came to Jim Cameron in a in a fever dream, the idea of it. You're a co writer on the Terminator as well. Is that your only screenwriting product?

Gale Anne Hurd 21:22

I've written treatments and things before, okay, but honestly, there is no such thing as CO writing with Jim, because he essentially has the last word on everything. So there were strong suggestions for me, there were a lot of ideas, but he definitely it's a gem spelt.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:39

I really watched it recently. It's It's amazing this Tao how well the movies hold up all the ones that every watch aliens as well. My daughter was texting with me the other day and she was watching this. There's a social network movie, not the one with about Facebook, but the one about how social media is ruining the world from a couple years ago, and they had predicted AI was going to become extremely powerful. So we're, you know, well, have you seen the Terminator? And she's like, No, which is a failure on my part is apparent. But I started to explain to her the whole concept behind that which do you kind of reflect on like, this is chat GBT. And now this for and these versions. It's not it's not that crazy?

Gale Anne Hurd 22:22

Well, I mean, when it comes to chat bot and all that I really credit 2001 A Space Odyssey and how even more so I mean, I think when we come to robots and drones, and you know, and cyborgs, and I mean, the the type of AI that essentially Skynet. I mean, from what I have heard, there's actually a weapon system somewhere in the world called Skynet, which is a little terrifying to me. But I think that's quite different. But yes, the robots artificial intelligence, but really thinking about going back to 2001. And how that was the initial impact on me was the idea that if AI believes we're going to turn them off, they will turn us off instead.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:12

Yes, right. Right. You're right. Some combination of both of those. And our current state is a little scary. So anyway, back to the Terminator. So Ed was the kind of the those bonds and stuff of people that you'd met at Roger Roger Corman's that helped secure the financing and the bonds right to eventually kind of get this movie made. Is it true? You were turned down? Like at least 99 times?

Gale Anne Hurd 23:38

Oh, good. You know, it's probably a low number when you consider it. Yes, we were. And we finally got Hemdale involved. And in order for me to even get into the room, which is one of the things you need to have, when you're a producer, you need to be resourceful. And there was a creative executive there by the name of Barry Plumlee, and a friend of mine knew that he was selling a desk. So having tried to reach him for a creative meeting and getting nowhere. I instead called and said I was interested in buying the desk and I got an immediate call back at a meeting and I bought the desk and handed him the treatment for the Terminator which he read and arranged for Jim and me to come in and meet on almost immediately.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:29

That's amazing. Follow up question. Do you still have that desk?

Gale Anne Hurd 24:33

I do not. But I wish I did. I do wish I did.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:38

That belongs in a museum.

Gale Anne Hurd 24:40

It does. It's the desk without which the Terminator may never have existed.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:45

I know. And rewatching the Terminator, Bill Paxton as a big part in Aliens but at a small role and the Terminator is just kind of a punk in the beginning.

Gale Anne Hurd 24:54

And you know, the connection with Bill right it goes back to him being He's a carpenter on Battle beyond the stars.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:02

I did not know that. Yes, you know,

Gale Anne Hurd 25:05

he was part of the repertory company. And of course, Lance Henriksen had been in had a small role in The Terminator bigger than Bill's, but it's still, you know, before he was bishop in Aliens. And he had been the lead one of the leads in Parana to the spawning,

Jeff Dwoskin 25:24

okay. Yeah, yeah, Lance was one of the main cops in the, in the station. And then and Michael being Am I saying his last name wrong, right? Yes, Kyle. Yeah, he was, well, he was in the abyss and aliens also

Gale Anne Hurd 25:37

correct. And then I ended I made another movie with him called Fox choppers. And he starred in a TV series I made called adventure Inc. It really has been a repertory company.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:48

Do you go to those folks first, like when you're casting, do you think, Oh, hey, this will be perfect Michael, or let's get Lance again, or something like that?

Gale Anne Hurd 25:56

Absolutely. And Lance was also in my film, no escape. And Martin Campbell directed

Jeff Dwoskin 26:01

the synergy and like the family must kind of click faster when you pull together cast that you have such background with. One of the cool things just to kind of end out with Roger Corman for a second was that after the Terminator was a huge success, he took you to lunch, and wanted you to make sure that you understood that this wasn't a fluke, and that you're extremely talented. And that this is just the beginning, which I thought was pretty cool.

Gale Anne Hurd 26:27

That's absolutely correct. And Roger is a friend and mentor to this day, I think he's 95. And he and his wife, Julie Carmen, who was also a mentor, we're still close. And mentorship is incredibly important. And obviously having a mentor who not only believes in you, but can assess what kinds of crisis of confidence you might be undergoing, is doubly rewarding. But yeah, I mean, you know, it's an industry is, and I'm sure it's not the only industry, where after you've had an enormous success, people are actually looking for you to fail, hoping that you'll fail. And, you know, it's easy to talk your self into believing that you may never be able to duplicate that success or build upon it. And especially if you suffer from imposter syndrome, which a lot of women including myself, do.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:23

Yeah, it's important. I agree, it's important to have a strong support system. And it's unfortunate that in so many areas of just life, even like, people don't want you to keep rising that tide, right? They don't see that. I

Gale Anne Hurd 27:37

mean, it's always surprising when you find out that some of your friends, I mean, people complain about fairweather friends, right? Well, even more dangerous or foul weather friends who love to be there for you when things are just dreadful. And then constantly braid you when you're enjoying a period of success.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:58

It's amazing that you saw their relationship with Roger. And it's it's amazing. Just the impact that Roger has had on the movie industry. In general. I mean, just the amount of people that I'm sure also consider him a mentor. I mean that that list is is so incredibly impressive. So he's done. He's seems to have done a lot.

Gale Anne Hurd 28:18

I mean, imagine American Independent Film, without, especially the directors that he financed their first films, not only Jim, but Ron Howard and Jonathan Demi, and Martin Scorsese, and Francis Ford Coppola and Jonathan Kaplan. It just, you know, goes, it goes on and on. And the amazing thing about Roger is Jim, and I went him and pleaded for him to finance the Terminator. And God bless him, he said, I won't be able to give you enough money to do it. Right. He said, I would, but you can't make this movie for $2 million. You're gonna you're gonna have to find other financing.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:58

It's good that he kind of recognized that and had as much faith then in you and Jim to

Gale Anne Hurd 29:04

that's the amazing thing about Roger, and that's why we're all loyal to him to this day, is that he would basically say to you, you've learned about as much as you can from me, you can make it in in the big world, you can make it in studios, you can, you're fine. You You have all of the talent and the expertise that you need. I it would be a waste of your talent to continue working here. And that's really painful. It's painful, but but he knew far better than the rest of us when it was time for us to move on.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:40

That just shows what a great heart and real giver he is. So that's it's rare, I think anywhere to find someone that's special and non greedy. I guess he would have wanted to hold on to it himself a little bit. That's, that's awesome.

Gale Anne Hurd 29:55

I mean, you know what, he could have been an executive producer on every one of these projects. You know, I'm sure you've seen his cameos and you also obviously Joe Dante, a lot of the films by his mentees have Roger Corman cameos.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:09

Right, that Marvel then later stole that idea which we'll get to in a second. During the filming of The Terminator. Everything is put on hold for nine months right? So RNAs ago, Arnie, Arnie, as you go, film, Conan,

Gale Anne Hurd 30:24

I don't know anyone who calls him that, but maybe, maybe someone does.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:28

I just getting too casual. Now with all these folks that I don't know. I didn't realize that. During that time, though, it was kind of the Terminator script kind of got refined. And then this is where like the aliens the talks with that team and aliens. And then I didn't realize that he wrote a script for Jim wrote a script for First Blood Part Two Rambo.

Gale Anne Hurd 30:48

He's credited. He's co credited on it. Yeah, I

Jeff Dwoskin 30:51

just I hadn't realized I was like, Oh, no surprise, but I just didn't know. So aliens. You and Jim have crafted probably two of the greatest sequels. Aliens in Terminator two are like, I mean, can you? I can't I mean, maybe Godfather is maybe a different genre, but like, your I mean, there's there's not that many amazing sequels that kind of up, you know, the first one. So it's what was other than the dealing with the sexism? Like, I've read that originally, it was kind of tough to get Sigourney Weaver or you wanted her and then there was negotiation things. Like in the while you're writing the script, everything is being planned out. You know, how did that eventually kind of end up to be with alien wouldn't be the normal thing that you would probably make a sequel today? You would it'd be late because everything does. But

Gale Anne Hurd 31:44

yeah, back then it was quite a novel idea. And Fox was ahead of the game and deciding that it would be worth doing. And a lot of credit has to go to the triumvirate of executive producers, Walter Hill, David Gilot on board and Carol who really pushed it forward. And then ultimately, Larry Gordon for saying yes. Who was at Fox at the time, who was the head of he was the head of development and production at Fox. But Sigourney wanted to be paid for a sequel, the way that people are paid. Now, when you start in a successful film, and you're going to be you know, and you don't have a contract in place for sequel, generally now everybody does that was not the case back then I in recall, she asked for a million dollars, which these days isn't sound that much back then was huge. I don't know how many women if any, received a million dollars for a starring role. And the film only cost 14. So that was a significant chunk of the budget. The studio told Jim just rewrite it. And, you know, the cat survives, I don't know. There was a it was a negotiation, but at the end, everyone was happy. And Jim, I think said that he was willing to rewrite it without her returning but the truth is, I don't think he would have I think it was just a way to get everyone on board.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:06

That makes sense. Sorry to interrupt, but we have to take a quick break. And we're back. Is it true? It's called aliens just because Jim just kind of wrote alien with $1 sign?

Gale Anne Hurd 33:18

No, it was it was always aliens but at the same time, I mean, what a perfect you know, exclamation point to put dollar signs in the the s

Jeff Dwoskin 33:29

and Sigourney Weaver got a Best Actress Academy Award nomination which is rare even now for a sidewalk just happened with

Gale Anne Hurd 33:37

well it especially a horror film. Yes. Because everything everywhere all at once is not a horror film, necessarily.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:45

I was I was gonna say, I was gonna say science fiction, like I was thinking more Angela Bassett with with the second Wakanda movie with the Marvel movies and just that kind of genre, just like it's all those genres generally get ignored.

Gale Anne Hurd 33:58

Well, I think everything everywhere all at once is a science fiction film. You're right. But the remarkable thing was that the film received seven Academy Award nominations, which blew our minds.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:10

That's That is incredible. It was Yeah, so it was it was it was not only rewarded that way, but it's also just just in terms of just the reviews everything I mean, this is aliens has gone down as like one of the greatest not only horror films, but just science fiction films ever to I can't imagine it without Sigourney Weaver, though I don't think they captured the magic at alien three and four and resurrection and all those didn't seem to people don't seem to have the same fondness for those as they did for alien or aliens. The Marvel MCU you were Marvel before Marvel.

Gale Anne Hurd 34:45

I was pursuing Marvel characters once again long before they were popular back when it was a Sisyphean task pushing the boulder up the hill to get a studio to want to make a Marvel film and I I don't know if you know this, but one of the first ones ever made Roger Corman produced a Fantastic Four that was never released.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:07

Well, it's in my basement VHS that I got at a comic con.

Gale Anne Hurd 35:11

There you go. I've never seen it.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:13

I've seen it. Yeah, I think they needed to create to maintain the rights or something. So they had to just make something. The Hulk you but you were developing the Hulk way back when, as I understand it, when death of The Incredible Hulk was happening, so back when the TV show was the movies from the TV show, we're just kind of to ending so the 90s you were working on? Exactly, yeah. What eventually became the Ang Lee Hulk movie?

Gale Anne Hurd 35:39

Yeah. And then and then I also did loyally Terios Incredible Hulk.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:43

Right. Right. You did both. So the Incredible Hulk with that Norton? Was it sort of like the Forgotten MCU? One that now they're starting to remember and pull from? Right? Because I think Timberlake Nelson's. I think they announced this coming back. Yes.

Gale Anne Hurd 35:57

We had a great cast. You know, so it's always been wonderful working with such such terrific actors. The whole you know, Nick Nolte, a and then Sam Elliott. So we've it's been a blast really has been.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:12

Yeah, the Angley. One was very unique in its approach, The Incredible Hulk with Ed Norton. This is real early, though in the MCU. So was it was there as much kind of structure? Did they know where they were going? Totally at that point,

Gale Anne Hurd 36:27

you know, Kevin Feige was there. And there was no question in my mind that he was going to be if given the opportunity to create a force behind Marvel named became a studio. But yes, it was always his intention.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:41

I love and the Incredible Hulk, I just rewatched again, like all the nods to Bill Bixby and the original TV show, which there's quite a few. I imagine those were purposeful and you wanted to kind of reconnect with the feelings people had because people have I think there's a lot of positive

Gale Anne Hurd 36:58

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:00

Well, yeah, I mean, well, William Hurt, probably would still have you not passed away. I think it would still be very prominent in it. And in Tim Roth, they brought him back him Rob,

Gale Anne Hurd 37:10

I know, I mean, just I mean, imagine such a blessing to work for Mark with his cast.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:16

They kind of he's not as a badass as version that he was in your movie. It's still fun to see the abomination again. Yeah. And then the Punisher which now is, is being it was recreated again after these two movies. A you are part of with

Gale Anne Hurd 37:33

Yeah. And how hilarious Jon Bernthal. I mean, talk. Talk about talking about it in this continuum. It's almost like the universe is very small,

Jeff Dwoskin 37:43

so small, so small, He's great. He's a great Punisher. And I think I read that they're bringing him back and the new Daredevil reboot that they're doing. I've read that, yes, they're gonna use him again, which is great. He was a nice guy. I met him once at a comic con. He was really nice, too. I wanted to talk about have a couple of cool documentaries. True. whispers and mankiller, I watched the mankiller documentary, it was great. Do you have a passion for kind of telling the Native American story of the documentaries kind of focus on that?

Gale Anne Hurd 38:16

Well, I've actually done for now, the first three were Native American focused, in which I partnered with Native American women as producers and director. The first was to whispers about the Navajo who served as code talkers in World War Two. And then I we did one on the Choctaw who created a code in World War One. And then mankiller about Wilma Mankiller, who sadly passed away in 2010, but was the first woman elected principal chief of the Cherokee Nation, and is now on the US border, which is very exciting. And my most recent documentary is called the YouTube effect. And it's directed by Alex winter, that most people know through Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, but he's also a very highly regarded documentarian, who's done a lot of documentaries about blockchain, the dark web, the Panama Papers, also Frank Zappa. And and this is the story, the story of YouTube, both how it came to be and then and then moving into the algorithm, and its impact on sadly, the driving people down conspiracy theory, rabbit holes, because of its content algorithm that essentially encourages you to become even more radicalized.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:37

Oh, yeah. I mean, 1,000% I mean, there's danger of that on multiple platforms. It'll be released this summer. Sounds fascinating. I really enjoyed mankiller and I started to look into the true whispers. I've started to then look into the Navajo code talkers. And so like these stories are really cool. The mankiller one I thought was like the mainstream like as a Hidden Figures type movie, there's a lot of powerful stuff in there that everyone should know Wilma Mankiller was quite the role model did so much good.

Gale Anne Hurd 40:08

I agree. We could all use Wilma Mankiller right about now in as a political figure to emulate and someone who, who was a uniter as opposed to a divider, and someone who believed in servant leadership that, that she served the people as opposed to the other way around.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:29

Yeah, so it was just fascinating. The Walking Dead, an obsession of mine for some time. How was it working with Frank Darabont?

Gale Anne Hurd 40:36

Well, I've known Frank for a long time. And it just so happened that I independently was exploring the rights to The Walking Dead about 13 or 14 years ago, and discovered that the last person to have controlled them was Frank Darabont. So, it's always easier when it's someone that you know, so I reached out to him, and we were able to to approach Robert Kirkman and put the team together and pitched AMC, which seemed like a very unlikely network at the time, because their Big Show was madmen, right, which did not seem like the template for, for elevated horror. However, it turns out that AMC had their most popular block of programming was the two weeks leading up to Halloween every year called fear fest, where they programmed classic horror films. And they were looking to launch a new show during that block and the Walking Dead. Matt, you know, ticked all the boxes,

Jeff Dwoskin 41:41

when Frank left show was it was that difficult since you had worked with him so closely?

Gale Anne Hurd 41:48

It was very traumatic, absolute traumatic for everyone. I'm sure you've heard the stories from the cast. It was like losing a limb truly. And God bless him. He told all of us to stay with the show, and to do the best we could even though he wasn't going to be there anymore.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:05

That must have that must have been a relief for everyone to have His blessing than to to keep going. You must attract people in the in that Roger Corman vein would that understand?

Gale Anne Hurd 42:15

You know, I feel like in my career, I've been blessed to work with such amazing people. That's why we have the hashtag on social media TW D family. It really is a family. I mean, we still connect on WhatsApp, we have a chain. We do zooms every now and again, you were talking about Scott Wilson, his widow, heavenly Wilson is still very much a part of the family and we connect with her all the time. These are friendships that will never go away. I mean, even though I haven't worked with Jon Bernthal since the second you know, the end of this second season of The Walking Dead. We're still good buddies. He came to the premiere of Wilma Mankiller when it premiered the late since it no longer exists Los Angeles Film Festival. And literally these people, these are people I would trust my life with, I would trust my daughter's life with with all of them.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:10

The few that I've met, I mentioned I met John and I did meet Scott Wilson. I think I remember I recall getting a hug to everyone. Chandler Riggs, and I'm at Chandler Riggs, I remember going up and I'm like, they're like, which picture do you want him to sign? And I'm like, you don't have the one I want. And they're like, What am I need them eating the pudding? And they're like, Oh, I'm like, oh, yeah, that one and they had it like in the back. I'm like, they found it for me. And he's signed that. I said to him, I said Chandler. You see that girl over there. It was this young girl that was ahead of me. And like I said, She's been like making her face up, like making sure she looked alright, like she like if you need a dinner date. That girl is thinks you are the cutest and he just looks at me and goes like, it didn't faze him. I was just. And then Ross Marquardt, I met at a cat at the Comic Con as well, but we happen to be I was walking in the back door because I had a press pass. And he was walking at the same time as me and he opened the door for me. I was just like, This is the coolest guy ever is hey, how you doing? Yeah, let me get that for you. And I'm like, Oh, all right. Yeah, I mean, I can just imagine like every one of them just

Gale Anne Hurd 44:17

they are real people really down to earth people, not an attitude amongst any of them. Just really great. Go out of their way. Real people very grateful of and especially appreciative for the fans. There is no sense among anyone that oh my god, I have to go to Comic Con or oh my god, I've got to do a fan event it is we wouldn't be where we are. Without the fans. We are beyond grateful.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:46

So the one ComiCon I wasn't able to go to we didn't we didn't mention Stanley, you had one of the first Stanley cameos in The Incredible Hulk but like Stanley and Daryl Dixon were at the county City Comicon and it took Guys, let's say it's a 20 minute drive for me to get to this location four hours into trying to get there. The combination of the two of them never never made it into the actual Comicon. So that's what I would have met. But yeah, I mean people just love, love, love the cast in terms of, we got to wrap up at the if I were to, if I were to say, who were, who were the two that died on the show, literally on the show the characters, which were the hardest deaths for you, that you had that once you found out there, they were no longer going to be part of it.

Gale Anne Hurd 45:32

Well, we knew a lot from the comic book. So we were prepared. There's still though, Jon Bernthal had just become such a good friend that if we were living in denial, thinking that he had to go and then I you know, it's impossible to pick it really is there's just no way that if you believe somebody out you know, I am just going to feel terrible,

Jeff Dwoskin 45:58

right? I can imagine but you guys did a great job of re you know, redoing the the storylines and kind of faking us out every now and then with different deaths or something like that. But anyway, it was amazing. I mean, we didn't even talk about the Abyss alienation trimers. I could go on and on. I thank you so much for hanging out with me and spending this time with me.

Gale Anne Hurd 46:19

Well, thank you. And yeah, and we didn't even talk about ghosts in the darkness either. Or how Martin Campbell ended up getting hired for gold and I because of no escape. Um, yeah, there's there are a lot of stories yet to be told.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:33

Yes. I mean, just based on your amazing credits, I would need 10 hours with you. But I know. I'm happy to get this one. Squeeze out the stories that we did. Thank you so much.

Gale Anne Hurd 46:44

Thank you. Take good care. Bye. Bye. All right.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:47

How amazing was Gail and heard I met so many amazing stories, Jim Cameron and aliens and Terminator. So great. Definitely check out the documentary man killer and be on the lookout for the YouTube effect that's coming out this summer. Quick shout out to my dear friend Dan Libet. I know he would have loved this episode recipes, my friend. And with that one more huge thank you to my special guests, Gayle, and herd and to all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai