#370 50 Years Later: Little House Legends Dean Butler and Alison Arngrim Reunite and Reflect

Jeff Dwoskin 0:00

Alright, everyone. I'm so excited to welcome back to my show two of the greatest guests of all time. The first we loved him as Almanzo Wilder on Little House in the prairie. He's the prairie man. And then we're going to build this all out. It's a whole build. It's a whole build. And then my other return guest, Prairie Bitch, that's right, Oh yes, oh yeah. We're not, we're not going to downplay that. But such both amazing people, we're welcoming back to the show Dean Butler and Allison argram. Dean wrote the book, Prairie man, my little house. I I screwed it up last time, too. Prairie man, my little house, life and beyond. And and Allison is the author of Confessions of a Prairie Bitch, how I survived Nelly Olson and learned to love being hated. We're talking little house 50 and so much more. Welcome back, Dean and Allison. Thanks,

Dean Butler 0:54

Jeff. I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I I don't know it'd be fun for me to try and write a book called Confessions of a Prairie Bitch. You're right. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I don't know how that would go, but what the hell

Alison Arngrim 1:10

you know? It's Matt laberto ever writes a book? Remember his character? They even said he was illegitimate. He could write Confessions of a Prairie bastard. And technically, even though, yeah, no, he's like, the nicest person in the world, but they called him that, Mrs. Alton. They called him that. That's

Dean Butler 1:28

right, yes, yes. Well, if you could, you could always count on missus Olson to say something, to use some untoward language about somebody, I think, something dreadful

Jeff Dwoskin 1:38

at all times. Yeah, yes, yes, oh, man, last time D was here, I couldn't, I could say the name for some reason, like I kept wanting to put a space after a house so I could go in my little house. It's my little house life,

Speaker 1 1:51

yes, my little house life, and beyond, and

Jeff Dwoskin 1:55

beyond. Yeah, yeah, right. I mean, right, right here, Jeff, right there. I have read here too. I mean, yeah, yeah, there you go. Okay, Allison's, yours is on my iPad and my Kindle, so it's not as sexy, but, but, yeah, no, I read both your books. I read Karen was on. I read her book. I mean, I've like you good for you read I pretty much, I have a whole library, uh, Bonnie Bartlett was on, I read her book. So, yeah, I just, I have an entire,

Dean Butler 2:23

I have not read Bonnie's book, and so what's, what's Bonnie's book? In a nutshell, Bonnie's

Jeff Dwoskin 2:30

book is, I put it on par with yours, Allison, in terms of, like it, it is, it doesn't hold back the truth that she lived. Yeah. I mean, it's like, there's some

Alison Arngrim 2:42

talks about her marriage, a lot with with Daniels and like that. It was very counter cultural, borderline open marriage, and the difficulties with that. And she has some wild stories, I believe, yeah, on the talk show, she was up the front. It was like,

Jeff Dwoskin 2:57

I remember saying to her when she got on the podcast, I was like, Bonnie, I feel like I need to just tell you a few things, because I feel like I know so much that I shouldn't know about you, that really we need to, like, it should be fair here. I should we should

Speaker 1 3:11

need to spill some tea on yourself. Yes,

Jeff Dwoskin 3:15

yes, yeah, there you go. Okay, yeah. So how is the little house, 50 for 50. Podcast now at 57 episodes. So I guess we're, yeah, wishing we named it something different. But the

Dean Butler 3:27

no, we're sticking with the name. We're sticking with the name. It's like, you know, ESPN has their 30 for 30 documentary series. What are they? They've done, like, 300 of them now, but it's still 30 for 30. So, you know, look the type. Their title worked. We're sticking with our title.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:43

No, it's a great, great title. Well, it was descriptive.

Speaker 1 3:46

It was descriptive of what we were trying to do. You're

Jeff Dwoskin 3:50

overachievers. You're overachievers. These are the bonus we call them bonus,

Speaker 1 3:53

bonus episodes. So I like that, Jeff, bonus mirrors and beyond.

Alison Arngrim 3:57

You know, that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:59

So how is it kind of, the two of you hanging out doing all these podcasts, like reliving all this pulling in, all the pulling in, all the, you know, the old, the folks that you work with, all that,

Dean Butler 4:13

you know, it's so it's interesting. And I haven't we, no one's posed the question quite like that before, Jeff, I'm just going to say I would have thought it unlikely a number of years ago that Allison and I would be working as closely together as we are, and it's not for it's not because, I mean, why not, but I just wouldn't have expected it. It's been wacky fun, I tell you, it's been wacky fun, and no one has been more invested in little house through the years than Allison has by really leading with it, with this Confessions of a Prairie Bitch frame that she's put around herself, which is incredible, and it's so works for her on so many different levels. Allison is so. Not that, you know, there's, there's so much more going on with Allison than that. It's really a wonderful branding thing for her to have around her, because people loved to love to hold her in disdain, you know, and she was so easy to hold and disdain for the work that she did it on the program. So anyway, what I'm trying to say is it's been a wonderful surprise, working with Allison through the well, through all the appearances we've done for years, and then more closely on the podcast. And now I feel like we are joined at the hip with interviews. We're on with each other all the time these days. So it's been a pleasure. It really has been. It's, yeah,

Alison Arngrim 5:41

it's, yeah, it's, I wouldn't have predicted this either, but it's like, when we knew we had to do something for the 50th, and we were doing so many events that last year the 50th was just, we were like, out every weekend. It's like, bang, bang. And Dean says, Okay, we got to do something. Guys. I wanted to a podcast, and we start calling, right? We'll get Pamela, but we'll do this. And I said, we'll call my guy. It blew up. And, yeah, if you'd ask me name two random people from the show who would have a podcast together, these would not be the Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 6:06

Wouldn't have thought that, that we would do that. Yeah

Alison Arngrim 6:09

and no, there's a whole almost George and Gracie thing. It like, yes, it's absolutely works.

Dean Butler 6:16

It does work. We Allison and I approach our presentation of ourselves in the world very differently, and it is a wonderful yin yang thing that I mean, it's totally pleasurable from that perspective, for me. I don't know how it is for Allison, but for me, it's totally pleasurable. I'm having

Alison Arngrim 6:36

a great time. It's a stair we are a riot. We are a riot on our podcast. You're freaking hilarious.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:41

So I have to admit, I just discovered the podcast, like, two days ago. Okay, so I was like, because, well, I I just, you're busy doing your show. I'm doing my show. And, but I knew I was talking to you guys, and I'm like, Oh, they have this podcast. So I did. I listened to the first episodes. I have so many questions. And how did it turn out? No, the and, but when you guys started doing it, just to kind of counter what you just said, Dean, it made perfect sense to me that the two of you were doing a podcast, having talked to each of you individually, who each bring a very different yet deep approach to the material. And so I see it as is a really good mix. I see it as a really good mix.

Dean Butler 7:25

Well, thank you for that. Jeff, yeah, no, I we do too. I absolutely feel that we touch a lot of different bases with with our with the energy that we each bring to this. So it's been good. It's been good from that perspective. So

Jeff Dwoskin 7:39

what has been the biggest surprises in doing the podcast, a little teaser reveal from one of the cast members or or somebody behind the scenes that you're like, Oh, I didn't even know that people

Alison Arngrim 7:51

have spilled tea. We've had people on and had, like, a whole layout like, oh, well, we're going to talk to them about this, and they're going to want Dave said they want talked about that, and, you know, we some questions, and in the middle of the show, they go, I've never told anybody this, but and just start like dropping Melissa Sue Anderson,

Unknown Speaker 8:10

I think that's one that jumps out at me is being

Alison Arngrim 8:14

on the show. She hardly ever does interviews, she doesn't show she's not out in the public eye, she doesn't do events and things. Is not her thing. And she's like, Yeah, no, I think I'll do your show. Sure she wanted, we had her on twice, but she had to do two episodes. And she just, like, said, Oh, well, you know, I never really talked about this, but and Chuck started, like, behind the scenes, we were, we were slack jawed. What's

Dean Butler 8:35

amazing? She's so earnest about what, you know, I think that what you get from Melissa Sue and now Melissa Sloan? What you get from Melissa Sloan is someone who really it's very important to her to be authentic and to really tell you if she's going to tell you something, she's going to tell it to you in a way that is honest for her. I think our audience loved that aspect of the conversation. There are those of us in our little house family who are more forward facing, are willing to be in that position. Melissa Sloan has very deliberately chosen to not be forward facing, public facing. She just, she just isn't. It is something she really has to think about and consider what she's going to say before she says it. And I think what we got is the audience absolutely loves her. They love her. And she was the tough older sister, you know, and and you could see talking to her that she carries that, you know, she is a very earnest, studious, precise person, and she brought all of that natural energy to what she did all those years ago, playing Mary ingles. And she was a wonderful counterbalance for for Melissa Gilbert's more spontaneous, plucky fear. Less kind of vibe that she bring. I mean, it was wonderful casting. The two of them together were wonderful casting, if they asked,

Alison Arngrim 10:08

she is very meticulous about it. She's, she's, she is the way she she speaks. She's like, Alright, I'm only going to do like two interviews in like an entire year, so I'm going to say this, and I'm going to make sure there's absolutely no mistake about exactly what I say so. She lays it up. But it was like one, like she she even talked about the famous, okay, it's a famous episode. Everyone talks about it. It's, it's that it's in country girls, when mom brings home the beautiful fabric, and she's, you know, going to make herself a dress, and winds up making the little girls dresses, it's a sob, saw cry. It's beautiful. And she has a beautiful fabric, and Laura reaches out to touch it, and Mary, ever the proper, you know, trying to enforce the role of sister, goes, Don't touch it. You'll get it all grubby. And hits her hand. But when they shot it, she goes, whack. And then you hear like crack, and you see le go, Hi, hey. And she's like people who said, Hey, did she really hit her? What did she do? Melissa

Unknown Speaker 10:58

Gilbert said, yes, she really did.

Alison Arngrim 11:03

And Melissa, she said, You know, I was really young, and pulling punches and understanding that you don't like, actually like swing, like get hit that hard, and how to fake a hit. Not really familiar with that. And I'm looking back and going, I really hit her hand really hard. And, yeah, sorry about that. I didn't mean to do that 50 years later. Sorry, I wet your hand. Jeez. I Oh, my God, the famous hand slap we like weren't even going to ask, really,

Jeff Dwoskin 11:31

it's funny when it sticks in your head, right? Yeah, that whole time it was therapy, found out

Dean Butler 11:36

that there. Yeah, no. Well, it was just, it was a genuine, it was a genuine reaction to the moment, and they were in the middle wise that these were, these two young women, young girls at that point were very, are very different people, and they're really different people. And I think that that was probably a source of, you know, that was probably a source of some stuff that went on through the years, but everyone has a pretty good sense of it all now. And everyone understands that it works, and that it worked, and that the fact that it's continuing to work after 50 years gives everyone confidence that, okay, there may have been some, you know, some tough moments there, but it was all good, all good, super

Alison Arngrim 12:21

young. These were really little girls in that scene as well. It's first season, and so, yeah, that made it the kind of weird, spontaneous realism that was going on and and that's the thing I always tell people, and anyone who has kids and anyone who teaches school, I always say, yeah, you ever hung out with tween girls? You know, like, 1112, 13, like, right around there. You ever like, thought taking a group of girls in that age, like, 12 to 14 and, oh, lock them in a room together. How'd that go? So? And I'm like, we took three tween girls because it's, it's, it's me, Melissa Sue Melissa Gober, right there. It's like, boom, boom, boom. 1011, 12 and essentially locked them in a studio for seven years, and no one died. You know, I think,

Dean Butler 13:06

all right, I have a question for you, Allison, because you said this, and I've heard you say this. Yes, I look, I agree. I've seen it. But why is that such a challenging time for young girls? What? What is the deal that? What's going on there, I

Alison Arngrim 13:21

see pretend terrible, like perimenopause. You're neither here nor there. It's okay, boom. Puberty. Bad enough where everything goes. Yeah, puberty. But like, right before, you're not a little girl. And you know, some part of your nose, you are not a little girl anymore, and you're not going to be a little girl in like, a week, like, any minute, you're not really a little girl. You can't do like little girl stuff, but you're not a teenager yet. And your friends who've gone through puberty and are actually teenagers make it really clear. You just look at them the way they talk to you. You're not a teenager yet, but you are not a kid, and you are in this weird, scary limbo. And then the hormones are kicking. And, I mean, there's girls who are really hitting that tween syndrome at like nine now, where it was like 11 was like, the danger back, screw up and, yeah, it's rough. And if, if you've been prepared for it, if your friends have told you you have an older sister or your parents or you know, you saw the film at school, but if you really don't know, you're expecting to become different at 14 or 15, you're maybe not expecting to become a completely different person at 12, it will mess with your head, and then the identity. It's about identity. And then if there's other girls the same age as you in any kind of competitive situation, well, we've seen what happens with cheerleaders and cheerleader moms. Oh yeah, it's a whole syndrome, and it is difficult. I mean, aging is always difficult, but for women, you have that. And then, like when you get older, you have menopause, but then you have, right before that perimenopause, again, you're neither here nor there. Oh, it's terrible, but it's a wonder any of us get through anything. But, yeah, there is something.

Dean Butler 14:51

Guys are just sort of claws. Nothing really changes with you know, yes, guys are changing, but it's not this. I just remember that. Not that we want to get off on this topic, but it's fascinating. I remember the difference in the girls I was going to school with in the summer between sixth grade and seventh grade. What showed up in school the first day of seventh grade compared to what I remember seeing just three months earlier. It was incredible. It was like this, like, you know, like the the butterfly had come out of the cocoon. I mean, some something amazing happened. It's part of its genetic, a lot of it cultural. So you've got all that going on. We were just, I mean, I feel like all of us, guys were essentially no changes. I mean, it's like, we're we're just as doofus see, as we were before. And the these girls are completely different.

Alison Arngrim 15:49

Boy, remember, like seventh grade boys? Yeah, you're all pretty much the same as sixth grade boys. And then, like, suddenly, eighth grade it's like, but with guys, it's more somebody through a switch. You wake up one morning and you know what happened? Whereas girls, it's this weird, drawn out, up and down process, very confusing. Guys, it's more like chunk, okay, there now you're here.

Dean Butler 16:06

I mean, Jeff is what you were expecting. I mean, this kind of conversation, I don't know it's it's fascinating stuff. I mean, this is stuff that captures people's attention forever and ever and ever. It was true in the prairie times, and it's true today. And

Alison Arngrim 16:22

I guess the time in in for us is we were all on TV. Here's the thing, everybody goes through this stuff. Imagine going through all of this on TV. You're doing an episode, and then, like, you go on hiatus, and you come back to do the next episode, and you're another person, and everyone sees it, and there's personal I mean, thank God we did not have the internet when we were a little house. We had little house. We didn't have to deal with Instagram and TMC and everything else but the changes. I mean, okay, just anybody watch young Sheldon. I haven't watched young Sheldon. Darling show. Sheldon sister, yikes. What happened? They suddenly came back for next season, and Sheldon was still little. Sheldon and his sister was like, hi, there wearing like, makeup, and it was like, food. Wait, she's supposed to be his twin.

Speaker 1 17:03

Yeah, anyway. Well, we can go, we could go on and on, Jeff, but yeah, no, I didn't want to talk about this. No, I was hoping

Jeff Dwoskin 17:11

I would be able to resell this package to middle schools so they could teach young children. You know what to expect as a

Speaker 1 17:20

peers, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, okay,

Jeff Dwoskin 17:24

all right. Well, you know, I think you covered all my question.

Dean Butler 17:28

Well, let's just go back to it, personal life, talking about

Jeff Dwoskin 17:32

somehow we were talking about surprises from podcasts led to a hand slap, and then next thing we know, we heard, 40 minutes already, all the

Unknown Speaker 17:41

massive changes? Yeah, I think

Alison Arngrim 17:43

a lot of people on our show did start to remember stuff they didn't remember. I know I felt the first few episodes, I felt like I was in group therapy. There was a lot of going back to that time, and people who were really young on the show going, wow, you know, I hadn't really thought about this, but I was so young. And indeed, even, yeah, you were just out of college, but you were a baby compared to now, and the way you had to deal with becoming famous at that age was like, yeah, we've all been talking sort of therapeutic on the show about how we grew up, literally on this show,

Dean Butler 18:12

yeah, no, it's, we're doing a podcast like this, where you're really examining something you've been a part of. Is, is it's like writing a book. It's like anything like that, where you are peeling back the onion of your life and things become memories. What I've learned from this process for real is that memories are very connective, and one thing connects to something else connects to something else. And you can start down a path of conversation where you really don't necessarily know where it's going. It you can wind up at some place that's really interesting, or someplace that maybe you wish you hadn't gone. But yeah, I mean, it's it. Memory is very interesting that way, and I think our audience is so I think the memories of what people ex their memories of what they experienced watching the program when they were very young are a very powerful draw to this re exploration of all this, because I think people like any program that touches people profoundly. And I think Little House did touch everybody profoundly. It wasn't for everybody, but for those people whom it did touch profoundly, it's very profound. And so our peeling back our memories are a sort of a fascinating window into their feelings and memories about what they experienced as they're watching the show. It's been this really, it's, it's sort of fun. It's fun for everybody. It's, it really is fun for everybody. And I really view us now, our little house family, is there's an immediate, close family, and then there's a much larger, extended family. And we're all in this. We're all in this large, extended family, cast crew, executives, legions of fans out there who have loved the program from all cultures. We're all part of the same family. We're we're all connected, and. When you know that when you're together with these people, because the love you feel, the goodness that you feel coming from people is is pretty extraordinary. It's

Jeff Dwoskin 20:08

amazing. When you start talking about shared experiences with people like you're doing, and they start layering in things that they say, oh, remember when Michael said, and you're like, I have no recollection that Michael, you know, like things like that, sure, and and then it starts to recolor your memories a little bit. It's just amazing, not only that you're having these conversations, but that you're documenting them all. That's even like, the cooler thing about it is like you're coming back,

Speaker 1 20:36

here's your record now, yeah, you know, we all have these coming. Like, you

Jeff Dwoskin 20:39

bump into someone from college and you're talking, you're like, oh my god, remember what you're like, oh yeah, that's right, I totally forgot that. That's really, really, that's gotta be really fun for you guys. It is fun.

Dean Butler 20:49

I think it's fun for our audience who comes and very devoted audience who comes and listens. And we do Patreon question Q, we need to do more of them, but we've gotten wonderful questions from people who are connecting with their memories and their lives and ask questions based on all that. And it's it's great.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:09

Who's been the hardest person to get on the show? I assume you haven't got Jason Bateman yet.

Unknown Speaker 21:14

I don't think that's going to happen, frankly, uh,

Alison Arngrim 21:16

we'll probably get Sean Penn before we get Jason.

Dean Butler 21:20

It's pop Yeah, you never know. You never know. But it's Yeah, I think that. I think he is a for as public as he is, in some ways, I think he's a profoundly private person we'd listen to. I don't listen to it all the time, but love the Smart List podcast. I think that threesome is really magical. Together. They do a great, great job and and Jason's personality is the personality that he shows and shares during that that dynamic, this sort of really uptight, precise, very conscious of protocol, I think of you know, of doing things the right way. He just doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't give it away. A lot. We've tried. We invited him, reached out to his people for our 50th anniversary event in Simi Valley, and it just, yeah, it just really wasn't going to happen. And which is, obviously, everyone has their choices on these things, but he's, he's a fantastic talent. I watched all of Ozark. I've watched it, some of parts of it multiple times. I just think he's incredible in the show. He and Laura Linney are amazing together. And he has been, he was, you know, he was really green when he arrived with us. I don't think he, I think it was really his first, right? We wasn't it his first job, something like that. It was maybe, or regular, I think, yeah, yeah. And you just could see in him that there was something he had something special. You just could feel it on him. And he's never, although he says he's had these dry periods in his career, but the way these things go, he has been constant in that world. And it's his talent. He's, it's very special talent, and good for him. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 23:04

Teen Wolf, too, didn't, wasn't that was a little bump, but then Arrested Development brought him back, and only ever looked back. So, right? So you never know where that next thing, he's always had some tremendous he was so energetic and just lit up the room. I mean, he basically, that basically got him kicked off silver spoons, you know, through jealousy, backdoor jealousy, you know I was, yeah, he's all right, well, I'm going to cross my fingers. I mean, I understand that's why you're now at 57 episodes for a 50 episode podcast. You're holding out

Alison Arngrim 23:32

for, yeah, we're holding out for Jason. Yeah. For Jason. Yeah. That stealing it, yeah. That

Jeff Dwoskin 23:36

could be the new subtitle of your podcast.

Dean Butler 23:38

Holding Out for Jason. Oh, I like that. Those are holding out for Yes, yes. Good job. That might get them press. Am

Jeff Dwoskin 23:46

I get enough press, and you only need them. You only need it for 60 seconds exactly.

Unknown Speaker 23:51

We just need one quick hit. That's it.

Alison Arngrim 23:53

You just come on. You didn't have to do the whole show and come up for a few minutes. We really have to, yeah, yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 23:57

yeah, do a freaking promo,

Dean Butler 23:59

yeah. Maybe I'll say, Okay, is it over now? Can you just let this go now, please? And of course, no, we, we can't. I mean, not everybody, like Melissa Sloan, not everybody wants to be public in what they've done. There are people whom it's very, very challenging to come and sit in front of a microphone, look into a camera and talk to people. For others, it comes very naturally, organically, and some people are exceptionally good at it. There are people where who would be much more comfortable if they're scripted, if they know they're saying words that somebody's written for them, and they can invest themselves fully in that. Then there are others who would much rather be free of all that and and just able to say what they think.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:39

The other thing you could do is try and get on smart list the two of you. Yeah, that would be a good booking. So, you know, like the different ways people internalize it, close family, extended family, you guys versus Melissa, so when did you know you can go first, Alison, when did you know this is going to be like such? Much a deep daily part of your life. You're not putting this behind you. Little House. Oh

Alison Arngrim 25:05

yeah. Well, when I got the part, I mean, I knew it was a big deal. There's a series. It sold a villain. I signed a seven year contract, which is kind of a big deal, even then it's like, oh my god. But somewhere around the third season, I think little house really kicked in, and people started getting really nutty and talking about it and saying things to actually go, this is sticking. By the time I was a teenager, I understood, you know, the stories that they allegedly buried Bela Lugosi in the cape. You get remembered for certain things, and that's it. And I knew growing up around actors and show business people don't pick the thing that they're famous for forever. You know, Patsy Cline didn't want to record crazy. It's like the biggest people, tons of actors and filmmakers and singers who go, that's, that's the thing. They like, okay, and and so you don't know, this is the thing. And then after the show, we all people get on with their lives. And the first couple years, I'm like, Okay, this will die down. And then around the early 90s, I think it was because suddenly we had Nickelodeon was running it, plus the DVDs, things went nuts. Suddenly I was on, where are they now? I love the 70s. You're and people recognize me in the street more than they did when the show was on. And I went, Okay, something crazy is happening. So they completely it's 1993 Wait, what? And things got weird, and then they start getting weirder. And that's when I went, okay to just get on the train. This is what, Purdue wing, okay? And here we are. But

Jeff Dwoskin 26:34

that had to be a conscious effort to think that way, because a lot of people don't right. I mean, Tina Louise was just in those years I'm done with ginger. Well, you've been done with ginger for 30 years. But like

Speaker 1 26:43

the example of Ginger's not done with not done with her, though,

Alison Arngrim 26:51

right? Who's, oh God, who's the guy who's saying, Misty, I'm as nervous as a kid up a tree. Yes, he hates that song. It's all the famous. What is Tina Louise famous for a lovely woman, lovely woman, but she does things, she teaches children, and she does drama. She's great. What is she famous for? And this is whether you like it or not. That's your thing. And people who like, I cannot talk about the thing, it puts themselves. They put themselves in a real mind. And I, I've known actors who said, Okay, I will talk for you. Get two questions or two minutes, whichever comes first about the thing, and then we talk about my thing. And like, Okay, I find figured out that the amount of time I would have to spend explaining, I do not wish to talk about Little House on the Prairie, the thing that I'm famous for, versus talking about it, I would save several hours a month. Like, dude, I would add up.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:38

Plus people walk away going, what the hell, right? And I they'll go, why wouldn't she, you know, because to them, it's so a part of them that that's you,

Alison Arngrim 27:48

and it's part of their relationship. And there's people who had a horrible experience. They the show, they weren't ever was mean to them. It was awful. Um, they didn't like the show, they didn't like the character, yeah, but, yeah, I was on a good show that was well made, and I love the character, and everybody's nice to me,

Dean Butler 28:03

Jeff, I I think that you don't know. You don't you can't know initially if something's going to have this sort of classic luster around it. You just don't know that you're the show is out there competing for audiences. It's, you know, it's getting a weekly number. It's, I don't think you really know what it is or what its legs are going to be until it's after its network run is over, and then you start feeling the that reciprocal or that ancillary bump that comes with it. And I don't think I really, truly didn't really understand it until sort of the early 2000s when you know it just it did have a bit of a resurgence. And I was transitioning to be a producer, and I learned that that a company called immivision, which was doing the Canadian French or the North American and French DVDs for little house was producing, or wanted to produce a lot of content. And at that point I because rarely are you in a situation where you have such a strong knowledge of something as a producer. So I was, I was able to be on both sides of that line. I understood the acting, the actor situation. I knew everybody. And then I also was learning how to put content together. That point you start talking to cast members, and the stories start to flow, and you see the reaction that people get to these little stories. And it really and then I got my first invitation, I think, to go to Walnut Grove. I think was my, was my first Walnut Grove Minnesota, which, I think at the time, had a population of like 750 people when, you know when we were, when we go to this place, it has a population of at least several 1000s of people. And it really told me that there's, there was something very real about this and the love. That I experienced going out again, doing it, you know, much the way Allison talked about, you realize this is a thing, and once you really get that, I mean, you have a choice. You can say, Okay, this is the thing, and I'm going to play in the space, or I'm not going to play in the space. And I made the decision at that point that I would play in the space, because it had been so good to me. It had been a great, great experience. And I think that's why people that's why people stay because it was good for them. Certainly, it's been wonderful for Allison. I mean, you know, my God, she's built, she's built a whole world around it, and it to a in a different way. I have too, and it's been a great thing for me. There's been nothing else like it in my life, and I you know, and there, there are a lot of shows that get made, as we know. I mean, there, there are 1000s and 1000s of hours, and now more shows, more so than ever. Tough to find one that really captures the public's imagination the way little house did, and has this ongoing love and affection attached to it that's, you know, almost reverential. It's, it's, it's very, very special. I

Alison Arngrim 31:09

mean, that's why it's okay. Like when I, I basically woke up a morning in the 90s and said, I can't beat them, join them. It was also, like, I said, if it was a bad experience. And, yeah, we had child stars. Especially, I have friends with them. They're like, Oh my God. In the show I was on, it was, it was horrible. They were exploitive. They were mean to me. It was terrible. I hated it. I therapy for your I think, yeah, okay, yeah, you're not. Probably not want to get a gun on the road talking about that and or it. You don't like the show. Maybe it was kind of cheesy or dumb, or you feel dumb watching it, and you're not, you're not happy about what you did in it whatever. But with little house, we were making a whole movie every week, and the incredible cinematography and the writing and the directing and the acting and huge stars, Johnny Cash, Johnny Cash, for God's sakes guest stars, and all the stuff we did, and these children who were we were all demanded to give a full range performance like a grown actor. I just that's different, that you could look back and go, yes, yes, I was on that show, yeah. And you can hold your head up. So that's different. So I thought, well, you know, of all the things to be stuck with, I could do worse,

Dean Butler 32:12

Jeff, I'm sorry. The children on Little House carried an enormous part of the emotional impact of the show these stories. When I just watched the raccoon

Alison Arngrim 32:23

the other day, the only one that makes me cry

Dean Butler 32:27

watching those scenes, or that scene with Melissa Gilbert and Melissa Sue Anderson as they're lying in bed in their little caps, and Mary's saying to Laura that she's sorry that she you know that she betrayed her trust and that you must hate me and I'm a terrible sister. And listening to that conversation between Melissa, the two Melissa's where Melissa Gilbert, Laura is telling her older sister that she loves her and that she did the right thing, that she knows that her sister loves her, and it's done in such a way, there's nothing false about it. It rings absolutely true. Kids have these conversations with each other, and I think that resonates. It's very, very powerful stuff in that episode about loss and honesty and, you know, betrayal, and you know, wanting something so badly and not being able to have it, and having to deal with that, these are real things that people go through. There's nothing, and it's an it's in a wonderful little package, but it resonates so authentically for people. It's bigger than life in a way, the way, the way the show was put together with I always come back to the music. Allison's heard me talk about the music so many times. The music was this very, very powerful character in the program that informed the audience of the depth and the intensity of the emotional relationships that were taking place. And everybody can relate to that, because we feel these things profoundly. When you lose a pet at home, that first time you experience death or you experience the disappointment of loss, it's devastating, and little house allowed those feelings to be shared. And I think people just gripped onto that because it was something that felt they understood it. They understood that it was inherently honest, and they've continued to watch it and love it for all these years because of that, and they come back to it because of that honesty.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:22

I think that is a perfect dramatic segue to Netflix is rebooting the Little House on the Prairie. Okay, so

Dean Butler 34:32

you've been looking for a spot to get in and change the subject here. I mean, come on, guys,

Jeff Dwoskin 34:36

no no, no. I know we wanted to talk about this too, so I just, but I didn't want to, I didn't want to get in there too early. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you know how it is, you gotta, sure you got in the right

Dean Butler 34:46

No. Nice turn. Nice turn. Jeff Allison, what, you know, we both, we all got this news. I think it was, wasn't it early February when we sort of got this news.

Alison Arngrim 34:56

We got, like, the courtesy call, because we, yeah. Right for a very long time. We want to do this. We want to make sure it's done correctly. Okay? It's not happening. It is happening. And then the phone call, it is happening. We are going to press, yeah,

Dean Butler 35:10

yeah. We kind of, we got called by the rights holder, who we all have relationships with because of all the things we've done for years. And I don't know that he called everybody, but he certainly called Allison. He called me to let us know that this was happening, and it was, it was a big moment for everybody to get that news. Yeah, they've kept

Alison Arngrim 35:31

us a little on the loop, which is nice, because in most cases you're not, you're not still having a relationship, and talking to the original rights holder of your show 50 years later, and somebody goes and makes it, and it doesn't include people, and you know, we're not in it, so normally, you're reading about it in the paper, or maybe your agent let you know, and you're just kind of like, we've been kept in the loop and given little bits and people. Here's what's going on. The auditions are going to be starting, and you know, we're doing the location search, so we're being very politely kept in the loop, which is kind of cool, because everybody's asking us, but today has to started yet. I know there's all these people act like it's airing next week. They literally just finished having auditions for Laura, like a week ago. It's like they haven't shut off frame a film. It's just starting. So, yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 36:13

I know, but it makes it makes for an interesting conversation as well. And you're right, they just kind of announced it. I know, Allison, you're like, every older article where there's always been like, oh cameo. There's a quote from you says, Oh cameo, I'm in. I'm

Alison Arngrim 36:29

sure I've always I mean, like, fine. What do you mean people? I How many times have we remade A Christmas Carol? Or how many times we remake these movies? There's movies that get remade. There's certain stories. And these are the original books. This is the books you could, you could pick a different part of Laura's life, like, much, much later, much, much earlier, and just make endless films. It's, I've been calling it like the prequel, because if this was, like, you know, a Marvel thing or a Star Wars thing, we say, Oh, is that a prequel? Because they're going back to the books, to when she's very young to the beginning. You know, we have Star Wars, and then we have the Mandalorian, and we have all this. There's the comic books and the video games and the show. It's all canon. They go. It's all Ken. How many versions of Star Trek are there? Yeah, we will always be Shatner and Nimoy, but

Jeff Dwoskin 37:16

Right, right, right, right, Star Treks.

Alison Arngrim 37:18

And I watch them all. So I don't have a problem. I don't have a problem. I and I always say, I'm old enough to be Mrs. Olson now, and you have my number, so, you know? I mean, sure,

Jeff Dwoskin 37:28

oh, I hope it's hugely successful. It's like, I know, I know Dean and I specifically, we were talking. We're like, there's, like, an you could start watching little house today and finish it, maybe not finish it before you die, like there's just so much contact, but it's 204, hours of right, or whatever, right? Yeah, it got me kind of going down the, you know, this isn't the first time they've done other little house stuff. And

Dean Butler 37:53

it's not the first time, it's the first time it's been here's what it is, though, actually it's the this is the third attempt, or the third incarnation, that's rights based, yeah, yes, yeah. So there was the original series. Then there was Ed friendlies, little house of the prairie, they did for Disney in 2006 then there were a number of things that were not associated with the property. There was beyond two, what two or three different beyond the prairie movies that CBS did that Richard Thomas played paw. And, you know,

Jeff Dwoskin 38:26

wait, wait, wait,

Alison Arngrim 38:28

wait, John boy's paw. John boys Paul, how can better

Jeff Dwoskin 38:32

than John boy's paw? Hang on a second, there's better than John boy's paw. So these, we're talking about the true story of lawyer Goggins. Walter Goggin Oh, you just so bad. Okay, Walter Goggin, seriously, one of the bigger actors right now, he just blew up on white lotus. I know Walter

Alison Arngrim 38:49

always loved Walter, yeah, he was

Jeff Dwoskin 38:51

Almanzo.

Dean Butler 38:52

Yes, he was, he was amanzo. Now, I'm trying to think of the actress, very attractive, young actress who was, you know, sort of that 20 something. Laura,

Alison Arngrim 39:03

grown up. Laura, yeah, I

Dean Butler 39:04

remember the thing that told me that this was a very different row, okay? Marilyn Roe, the thing that told me that this was a very different take on Little House, something that never would have happened on our show, was the moment there was a moment in a tall, endless field of wheat or a prairie grass, the two of them are standing together, and they sink down in the grass and disappear in the tall grass. And that would never have happened on our show. There's no way it was. And look, I thought it was, you know, my my memory of it is that it was a really beautiful kind of moment, but it was, it was taking and I think the friendly family was not happy that this had happened, but there was no because it wasn't based in the book. So there was no way to see. Stop it, right?

Alison Arngrim 40:02

People, Laura was so weirdly private about certain parts of her life. She spills her guts in parts of the books, and then is like the wedding is not portrayed technically. In the books, people go learn a man's wedding was that a we don't know she goes in the books. She goes all the way up to the wedding. Her friend arrives. She's going to be major of honor. They talk about the pastor they got, how they're not going to say, obey, right up. And it goes. And then we were married,

Dean Butler 40:26

and then we were married, right? Yeah, no

Alison Arngrim 40:28

kiss. And no one did, but it is she kept that that's a private moment. That is a private moment. I told you everything all the way up to like we walked in the room. That is all you people are getting. And she stopped. And so that's what people so, yeah, Laurel Manzo and the wedding, the thing and the No, no, no,

Unknown Speaker 40:45

no. Grass was never falling

Alison Arngrim 40:47

down on the ground. Of the grass, yeah? No, no. Moon went behind a cloud. No, no, no, yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 40:52

I will, I will say that the these are portrayed as, like the true stories, right? And but the one negative comment, or the first negative comment on the first movie is there's no Nelly character. Thank you.

Alison Arngrim 41:03

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that's that's come up before. I remember the the even when they did the when Ed friendly did his six episodes around on Disney, There were articles and people in the news going, is there Nelly in it? No, I can't watch it. I'm like, geez, um Yeah,

Dean Butler 41:18

it was the first two books. Is basically in six hours he did, what was the original pilot? Right? The original pilot movie was a, basically did the very end of the well, not even the very end. It picked a point, the departure point, from Wisconsin, and carried them to Kansas, and then we went through the entire Little House on the Prairie book in whatever that remaining 90 it was less than 90 minutes. It was that's how that was handled. That should have told people some very important information this series, if this goes to series, it is not going to mirror the books, because you couldn't do a long run series, based on the way Michael thought about episodic television, the books would not have sustained that, I suspect. And Alice and I both believe that it's very likely that this new incarnation in the Netflix world of 678, Episode seasons, as opposed to 22 episode seasons, could more logically sustain a telling of each book in a five to six hour period.

Alison Arngrim 42:32

Right? You could do so many episodes and get through that book and and six episodes, you could go way deep into a book, and then you could do, and now the next book, and you could get away with it without having to, like, make up 4050, pages. You could, you could do it, but you can't do 22 episodes. And, like, you'd be, you'd be tearing through those books. It just doesn't. And Michael, I mean, Michael, you know, he said TV is TV, and TV in the 70s, and just come up bonanza. He said, You know, there's a little chapter on how to make an apple fritter. And I'm not filming that. I can't. There's things that work for episodic TV, that format that we were in,

Jeff Dwoskin 43:09

and that's what he did. Yeah. And who knew? Years later, people would watch an hour people making an apple fritter, and now there's a whole channel on

Dean Butler 43:17

it. Isn't that true? You're right. You're right. People will spend an hour watching making an apple flavor. Michael wrote, or Laura, let's put it this. Laura wrote about what people did to survive. Michael wrote about how people felt about what they did to survive. Michael lived in an emotional world that was really where he lived, and then that's where the center of his storytelling was. Laura's storytelling was a much more fact based. We did this and we did this, and we did this and we did this, and this is what happened. I think, look, they both could be satisfying, but there's no question that Michael's emotional approach approach was hugely successful, and people fell in love with these characters. I do remember in the Disney version of this, it felt to me like the show was strangely devoid of emotion.

Alison Arngrim 44:11

Not as much. Didn't things

Dean Butler 44:13

happened, but you didn't spend a lot of time in that emotional realm where I think, where an audience becomes vested in the emotional stakes that are in place. And I think, particularly interestingly with this property, it's going to be fascinating Jeff, to see how this group of producers, actors and cameramen manage storytelling in a different time, there's a different expectation. We live in a much more nuanced world than we lived in when the show was first made, where good was good and bad was bad. It was, you know, it was still white hats, black hats. Now there's so much gray hat everywhere. There, and I think that that's that becomes more that's a much more challenging space, and there's much more room, I think to, I don't know, don't want to say, lose people, but maybe you could, you can hook them with this big set piece of something. How do you hanging on to them, having them vested, really vested in a loving way, not in the context of watching a train wreck, but having them, but having them vested in really being there with you.

Alison Arngrim 45:37

It's going to be the people, if they get, if they get as lucky in casting as we did, if they get it was all that chemistry between the actors sparks flu if they find the right people. Yeah, this thing could be just off to the races.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:52

Yeah, I think there's gonna echo, right? That's, that's really the casting is

Unknown Speaker 45:55

90% of everything. Can

Jeff Dwoskin 45:58

you think of a reboot that's even pulled that off, other than Gidget in

Dean Butler 46:01

that isn't that amazing. Gidget is sort of this cultural phenomenon as well. And I think that character, another iconic American female character, as Laura Ingalls Wilder, is a little more frothy, but so optimistic. And like Laura, optimistic, positive, looking for the best in their life. I mean, very inspirational in this bubble gummy kind of way, but very inspirational. I just I wonder if the audience in today's world, will an audience? Do we need the flaws in order to humanize somebody, is it? It's, it's not enough to just set an example. You have to have the characters. Have to have their failings, at least, that's what it feels like, is you watch so much, which is why it's hard to, I mean, I want to watch television and feel good. As I'm watching television, I've realized that a lot of the audience doesn't care about feeling good. They want to be they want to see a train wreck. Well,

Jeff Dwoskin 47:08

you want to feel something. You want to feel something. And I agree with that. You got to feel something. Yeah, it's like this weird combination of the right audience you have to find and the right reimagining, because the thing that the show has going against it is everything that you guys love and keep alive, which is everything you love and keep alive, it's it's not, it's not like, you know, if I have such a memory of this is Nelly. This is amanzo. This is Laura. This is, you know, Ma, this is PA, you know, someone's gotta replace Michael Landon, whether they're technically doing it or because it is from the book. Anyway, we've had a million James Bond. So it's not like, it's not possible, yeah, but it's gotta be this, that right combination of everything, especially when you're dealing with something like little house,

Dean Butler 47:58

it's going to be interesting to see how that what we what it's very interesting and cool. And I think what we've said to people is that we hope that people will are willing to give it a chance and watch it on its own terms, right,

Jeff Dwoskin 48:14

right? Let it right. Well, there's it's the books, right? So he, Michael Landon, interpreted him. One way you can interpret it and still have that's the beauty of it, is interpret it and create the your own, same thing. You know, man, I think battle circle. I think I was a good example. Book

Alison Arngrim 48:28

people. I talk about the book people, the history people, there's the history people, and they're they're mad. The books aren't even historically accurate enough for them. And then there's the book people, so there shouldn't have even been a show I only and there's the book, and there's all these factions of the history, people, the book people, the TV. Bill, I don't maybe the book people will be thrilled because it'll be completely different. Yeah, as

Jeff Dwoskin 48:49

long as it's just good, I think everyone will be happy, right? I mean, that's what the Michael, that's right, that's right. That's why your series still stands up. It was Michael Landon made the best show, and it's still amazing. I mean, it holds up. And so that's it. That's part of it. It's kind of,

Dean Butler 49:06

as we like to say, Jeff, that the finest family drama in the history of television.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:12

I will say, I

Dean Butler 49:14

don't think that's, you know, okay, some people would say, I don't know what exactly you'd say is a comparative to it, but it's resonance with people in this genre. The resonance is incredible. It really is.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:31

It is amazing. You guys are only on this show together for what it's season six and seven, like seven,

Speaker 1 49:39

and you came in like, yeah, no, no, that's right, so costly. Did you? You did, in fact, leave after season seven. Left

Alison Arngrim 49:46

at the end of season two, and again, came back for one episode in Season nine, which is a whole bizarre story right there. But, yeah, but I the seven and you, what did you show up season six? Yeah, that's top of season six. Yeah,

Dean Butler 49:58

yeah, no, a very and. You know that trans that's that transitional season, because Laura changed during that season, reflecting on this earlier conversation we were having about young women, Laura really the nature of that character, her independence, her her seeing of herself in a particular way or in a different way. She really changed. I think the audience was clearly the audience was absolutely ready for it when they realized the people who were the book lovers heard that Almanza Wilder was coming, they knew what was coming. And I think that hooked people. A whole segment of the audience was in there all the way because they knew what the story was and and I think as much as look it, we didn't tell the story the way Laura told it, but the thread of the story was pulled through that season, and then, you know, came to had its culminating moment, or the or its next big its next big moment at the at the top of season seven, when they got married, it was one of the few elements in the series that that did reflect, in its own way, what Laura had written about in the books. You know, one of those rare elements, I think the audience appreciated that and stayed with it, or really hooked into it when that happened.

Jeff Dwoskin 51:25

Amazing. So what, Allison, what did you think when Gene joined? Were you like,

Alison Arngrim 51:30

Well, I mean, it's the thing I knew was coming. I mean, I always thought how brave he had to be, because you are stuck because, I mean, she the books are written by Laura Ingalls Wilder, so you already know it's not like, oh, we decided to give her a husband like me or like Melissa Sanderson. We've written in a husband. Yeah, no, the husband thing, you know, Almanzo Wilder's in the show get to get to be. And everyone's been reading farmer boy and and These Happy Golden Years, they have already decided what he is supposed to be like. And then you have the added thing of, it's Melissa Gilbert, who we've now been watching for what seems like centuries, and we know what she's like. So is that going to work with her? So it's like, talk about a niche market thing. Yikes. So I remember thinking, as we all did, we got married in the show. Who the heck are they going to how they going to pull this off? Who is this poor guy? And he he did it, he did it, he pulled it off. It was like he was Almanzo e enough and innocent enough? And he had to be innocent, he had to answer, had to be very sweet. And he made it work. He made it work, which is like the tough row to hoe, as my mother would say, Yeah, I was fascii. And then, of course, we did have the fun with the first couple episodes where I try think I'm Mrs. Olson, thinks he's a catch for me, and I attempt to steal him by inviting him to dinner, which was just a whole wonderful thing. And that's what's crazy, is that even though our relationship show was like two episodes, that damn cinnamon chicken scene has just not gone away and is brought up all the time.

Dean Butler 52:54

Yeah, it's a wonderful you know, when you have a I mean, Allison was such a wonderful love to be appalled by villain. She was so talking about her like she's not here. She was such a wonderful villain in this. And the audience knew, he just knew that this was, this was not a play that was going to work out. So it's just a question of what the fun of it not working out would be suspense, yeah? And so this cinnamon chicken moment, and then the the wonderful mud fight that happens at the end of this, of that episode. It's just, it's just so much fun. It was a wonderful launch to that season, and that storyline of Laura's coming of age, it was just a great way to start it off, and that dynamic with Alison was great fun. And of course, can't talk about Allison in that situation without connecting to Catherine McGregor, who was who played Allison's mother, obviously, Harriet Olson, who was absolutely unforgettable on the program, and was just an indelible presence so important to the success of the program, those these two characters, Mrs. Olson and Nelly, massively important to the program's ultimate long term success. And it's, you just can't say it enough, the presence was hugely important in the drama, because they are the fly in the ointment. They are the problem. They are the thing that's going to screw everything up week after week after week. And they did it so wonderfully, and people love them for it.

Jeff Dwoskin 54:41

Huge character, huge character in Japan. The show is called nelly's house.

Unknown Speaker 54:46

It should be, but

Jeff Dwoskin 54:48

maybe France. Maybe France.

Unknown Speaker 54:50

Well, definitely in France.

Alison Arngrim 54:52

Oh, my God, there's one cool for it in France, cuckoo for it, and especially me. So works to my advantage, I'll tell you. So, yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 54:59

Well, Dean, I have one more question for you that we can ask in front of Allison and pretend she's not here you mentioned earlier. We know, obviously Allison's personality is a shining, bright, shining star, and she's hilarious. But if we go back in time to the top of season six, season seven, when she's full on Prairie Bitch mode. That's her character. This is what the world now knows her as. Yes, same Allison. When the cut is Allison like what she still is saying in character, with a little bit like, what and Allison convention answer this too. I just thought it'd be funny. Oh, well,

Dean Butler 55:36

look, I think Allison was fully in control of what she was doing. You know, she could be this monster one minute, and when you say, Cut, it's like, okay, what are we having for lunch? I mean, it's like, or where are we going for lunch, or what are you doing this weekend? This was not Allison did not. I didn't sense that Allison was doing this agonizing emotional immersion into this. I think that Allison got the joke, and I think she got it from day one. She understood intuitively what this was, and she brought it, she brought it, and I think had an absolute field day when I when I first met Allison. I really didn't know what to make of her. I mean, the first time, because here's this in this costume, this, you know, the ringlets and the the lace and all of that vibe that she had going. And then, but she'd come in in the morning, she'd come in with some like, you know, punk sleeveless t shirt on with black Levi's and converse high tops and dark black eyeshadow on, I mean, and driving her, her red and white Ford. Ranchero, what was it like a 1965 19 something, 1957

Alison Arngrim 56:54

ranchero, but with the seven ranch 1965 29 Mustang engine, thank you. So,

Dean Butler 57:00

yeah, I mean, it was like, Who is this? This? I had never met a young woman like this before this. Allison was completely outside my life experience. Allison was really, like, you know, a Hollywood girl, and she grew up in in the industry. We really grew up in the industry, not just was around it. She was deep inside it, mother, father, brother, everybody was inside this business. And so she understood things about it, and was in on the joke from the very beginning all the way along. You know, I've, I've developed such a deep appreciation for Allison as the years have gone by. At first, in all candor, I did not know quite what to make of Allison when we first, when we first started working together, I just didn't, I didn't, didn't know she's awesome. Who

Speaker 2 57:57

could blame you? I Doug, yeah, there was a sort of a method

Alison Arngrim 58:01

acting thing with Nelly, but it's like in Bucha, in the good method, the idea is, you find the thing with the anchor, whatever that's like, oh, I we're going there, we're going to go there. That's how we're going to be. That's how we're going to be. Oh, it's like, that, I'm going to be that person. But what if you find it? And that's the thing, is, by the time he showed up, I was like, so I knew what I was doing by that, once you know where that place is that you're going, you can go there, step back out and step back. It doesn't matter. You go, oh, tired, turn it on. Turn on the Death Ray. Then, yeah. And then when they're done, you can go, what? Yeah, what's for lunch. And it's awesome. The scene with the stuttering girl. I mean, Katie Kurtzman has talked about that that she said it was so weird, because she said I was absolutely horrifying, just so unpleasant, so torn, and then they'd say, Cut. That's like, la, la, la, la, la. And she said she was doing all this heavy duty emotive stuff, get the crying and the stuttering. And she said, I don't know what the hell you were doing. I thought it was demonic possession at that point, because it just like, came and went like it gets

Jeff Dwoskin 59:05

so did you want to say anything nice about Dean? He went on for you. Oh, yeah. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 59:12

Dean. You know,

Alison Arngrim 59:15

there's things you could say about Dean that sound like insults. He's such a Boy Scout, but no, like, Yes, he does embody the goodness and innocence and properness of Almanzo in the show. There's that whole thing going but that, really, that is him. That's why he was able to that's why he got the part. Michael had a big thing about, I don't want to see a lot of a lot too much accident. Like, don't what was it? Don't act. Your friend told you the addition, don't act. That's the thing. Is, there had to be a lot of you in it, if it was totally fake. He just wasn't interested. He wanted someone. There was enough of them in that. And so when Dean came in, just out of school, Heil Howdy, how you doing? He went, Yeah, that's it. Dean talks about in his book that he was brought up to be very polite and to be nice to people. Good evening. Thank you. Well. Welcome to our home. Would you like, how

Dean Butler 1:00:01

do you do? Yes, how do you do? I feel like I was, I was brought up in an AR Gurney play, in some ways, I really was. I mean, Muffy, Buffy, I have all of that around me.

Alison Arngrim 1:00:14

Welcome to my parents home. May I get you a cocktail? Yes,

Dean Butler 1:00:18

five o'clock. I can, I can I serve you before my mother gets home from from the club, there was definitely some of that going on,

Alison Arngrim 1:00:27

that going which it works. It's great. And the other thing, and I talked about it in the forward to his book, who the heck do you know after being in Hollywood, being on what, more than one series, being on Gidget, being in movies and series and Broadway and being famous and being 18, I know no less, at one point in the 70s and now reached the okay past 60 years of age, can still blush when a female fan comes up and goes, Oh well, man, so he's still so cute. Who can still turn pink at that age, after all that, and here we go. Dean is still innocent enough. Yeah. Lush, when complimented, I'm so flattered

Dean Butler 1:01:07

by it. I really am. The the love and affection that I have gotten from people throughout the years has been just this amazing, amazing gift my wife Catherine, who doesn't? She's not Catherine's a wonderful actress. She's worked far more than I've worked in my career. But doesn't. She's not really public about it at all. And she, she always says with before these weekends, alright, as I'm packing my bag and getting ready to go to the airport, alright, go off and be adored again this weekend. I mean, it's just, you know, she's got a good sense of humor about it. She understands why it's meaningful to me to do this. And when you see those looks in people's eyes and their experience of what they remember, it's so much about it's about their memory. It's about their memory of what they felt what they were going through, and you see it in their eyes when they come up to say hello, and it's beautiful. It's really beautiful. It's so human, and it's so good. And I see this with women, with their children, with their grandchildren, with their husbands of 30 years, with them, but they still are able to go to that place when they come up and say hello at these events. And you just see that there was this. There was this 1213, 1415, year old girl who's watching this and having this experience. And it's pretty cool. It really is I recommend it highly, if you you know, and for anyone who has the opportunity to have the experience, I highly recommend it. It's, it's pretty special.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:02:51

After your guys's episodes ran, I can't even walk out of the house. Well, flood me. Oh, aren't you the guy on the podcast. No, no. I think it's amazing. I mean, you can see, by the back, I got all these eight by 10s. I love going to Comic Con, so I see all that firsthand. And I was, I've talked to a lot of people who shared, like, amazing stories of what their that person's particular show meant to that particular person, and and when they hear that, it's just, it's like a next level of paying it's like something you never expect. But it's just, it'll stay with you forever, which is amazing. You know what else is amazing? You guys are amazing for hanging out with me for so long. Thank you. Oh, thank

Dean Butler 1:03:34

you. I mean, you could never, you can't when you're doing it. You can't know where it's going. You know that's for sure. Just you just can't know. And the fact that it's gone the way it's gone for us, and all of us who are a part of the little house family, is just this amazing, amazing thing. It's just, it's a, it's a, it's a gift that you can't say thank you can't say thank you enough for really, truly is you guys,

Jeff Dwoskin 1:04:00

let's show everyone you got you do you have a copy of your book? I'm sure Allison, you want to hold

Speaker 2 1:04:03

it. I don't. I know, usually one laying around to wave about. Let's, well, let's

Jeff Dwoskin 1:04:07

hit let's do, uh, watch this. Watch this, everyone. Oh, there we go. Dean Butler, Prairie man, my little house, life and

Dean Butler 1:04:15

beyond. Boom, there you go. Yes, I don't want to block the title. What am I doing? Yeah. And

Jeff Dwoskin 1:04:19

Allison, Confessions of a Prairie Bitch, how he survived Nelly Olson and learned to love being hated. And of course, they're amazing. Podcast, little house, 50 plus for 50, waiting for Jason, waiting

Speaker 1 1:04:33

for Jason. Yeah, I think we have to play with waiting for Jason. Yeah. We have

Jeff Dwoskin 1:04:37

that's available wherever you listen to podcasts. You can listen on Apple Spotify all the good places. Thank you both so much. This was doubly fun. Thank

Unknown Speaker 1:04:46

you for having us. Jeff, very kind. You.