#368 Cut for Time, Not for Talent: Luke Null’s SNL Survival Story

Jeff Dwoskin 0:00

I'm excited to introduce you to my next guest actor and comedian, Luke. No

Luke Null 0:06

both of them. I do both act and comedy. You're a double threat. Exactly a double threat, baby. Thank you for having me. Luke was

Jeff Dwoskin 0:15

one of the featured players on Saturday Night Live in the 43rd season. I came across Luke at a convention. He was performing a la zoom, and I gotta say it was one of the best zoom comedy shows I've seen you, Master day. Hey,

Luke Null 0:32

it's very kind of you to say, but saying the best zoom comedy shows being like, man, it's the tastiest turd. That's the tastiest nugget of dog poop. So, but thank you. It is a it's as comedy was intended to be ingested. So, yeah, well, no,

Jeff Dwoskin 0:47

but I do. I do mean it as as a high compliment. You. A lot of times people become so self aware you because of being a guitar comic and having that fun and engagement, you actually made it a lot of fun. And it was, it felt not that, you know, obviously wasn't live. We were in the same room, but the but you did, you didn't let the barriers block you. And I think I, when I was watching it as a community, everything that I hate about the concept of zoom, you seem to just plow right through. So I was watching it through that eye, I was very impressed. I was, you know, it was, it was good. It was, it was the best turd, as you said. But still, seriously,

Luke Null 1:23

thank you. Thank you for saying so. It is, uh, I think weirdly, the fact that I'm doing songs and stuff actually makes it a little less awkward over zoom, because, you know, doing straight stand up into the abyss is a little bit I feel like more awkward, because there is a response system that's supposed to be built into it, and it either comes on a delay or not at all, or, you know what? I mean, it's just, it is just wild. So I I'm really just performing into the abyss a little bit and hoping that people are like, Okay, this isn't absolute drivel. Or maybe they, that's what they're into. And I'll then I intend to give them the dribble they they came for. Well,

Jeff Dwoskin 2:06

you delivered the best dribble ever. So thank you. So I'm curious. I'm really interested in learning sort of the path to sarin live. I'd like to talk about sarian Live. Should I first like to kind of get there in your story? So where, where did you kind of start? Was it in

Luke Null 2:22

the year was 1989 my parents fell deeply at knockout. As far as, like, where I started doing comedy.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:30

Did you start with theater? Was you were part of an improv group? Like, what kind of led to the audition? And then I've got a million question about actual Saturday Night Live? Sure,

Luke Null 2:39

yeah, as far as, like, the audition goes, I did comedy in college. Kind of the bug kind of bit me there. I had just when I went to school, went to state school. Oh you, oh yeah, Ohio University. My parents helped me pay for half my school. And they were like, please don't get a theater degree. Like, just get anything else I basically was doing, like auditioning for like the student theater for fun on the side. And they were like, if anyone wants to audition for improv, we do that as well. So I was like, All right, I'll do this. So I ended up getting into improv in college, and kind of lucking out, because I had a grad student who was a former UCB New York instructor, and so he kind of gave us the kind of the fast track to long form improv. And so we kind of got to learn the UCB New York style in college, which I thought, you know, in the time, was a big leg up. And then that person left, and we ended up getting another grad student who was a who was a Chicago improv instructor, and so I really got a great dose of improv training before I even graduated school, and that kind of became my de facto major in my head, at least. So I ended up moving immediately to Chicago after college. Got my degree in geographic information systems. Love it. GIS. Shout out to all the GIS heads out there never no idea what that is. It's like cartography, like computer based mapping, but yeah, it's fine. It's not what I ended up going into, but probably not rare with a lot of grads, but ended up going to Chicago. The improv scene in Chicago was, I say was because COVID just old, yellowed it in the backyard, like a lot of like the IO theater where I auditioned for SNL is no longer with us. Rip, you know, the improv scene there is really great. It's kind of the mecca for improv. It's the kind of place where, if you move there and you are friendly and show up, you can get some performance opportunities relatively early. It's a great place to learn how to do comedy and to cut your teeth. And you get a lot of stage time, you get a lot of experience. You meet a lot of great people. And it's people that are doing it kind of for. The love of the game, I will say, when you're in Chicago, there's, you know, everybody's all over. Everybody's doing Second City and the IO theater and the annoyance and a million of their other great little little theaters in Chicago. But because you get to do it so much, and there isn't really a path to making a living doing it, everyone's kind of working nine to five and doing it at night, or they're trying to make ends meet, coaching or making money. Otherwise, it's not a pursuit that you can make a living out of, pretty much at all just doing straight up improv, it's almost impossible. But started doing stand up in Chicago as well with my guitar. So I'm a guitar guy, so all the other stand up comedians think I'm so cool and smart, they all love me, and it's not an uphill battle at all to gain their respect. But the weird pie in the sky in Chicago is SNL, like a lot of the theaters, io and Second City specifically, they kind of have an open door for whenever Lauren and the producers and writers want to come see them. Usually it's late summer, but they don't. No one really knows when or if they're coming. The theater owner, Sharna Halpern, who owned the IO theater, would see people throughout the spring and summer perform five minutes of solo sketch comedy, whatever you got in five minutes, that's what you got, because when they come and see you, you're going to be performing at IO in a packed house with them sitting front row center, kind of seeing your five minutes of whatever crap you decide to do. And Sharna will see people all year, and then kind of decide the day or two before they get there, because she doesn't even know they're coming, who is going to go up and perform for them. Usually, she picks about 15 people from Chicago to kind of show their stuff. And I actually got the opportunity to show them five minutes in 2016 so the year before I was cast, Alex Moffat actually got picked to be on the show from that night. So I remembered seeing another guy get it, and I was like, Oh my gosh. It made it very real, you know, because in the moment, even being picked to do a showcase for them was to me, like, already the mountain top. You know what I mean? Like, I was already like, it's enough of a of a weird, crazy life story, to be able to say, like, I auditioned in front of Lauren Michaels or these illustrious writers and producers and Colin Jost or whoever else they choose to bring. But obviously, the first time I went did not they did not pick your boy, but because I saw Alex get it, and I was like, Man, this is crazy, like that, someone actually just got, like, plucked up and is in New York now and then. The following year, I did my stuff for Sharna again. She put me in the showcase a second time. Usually, they frown on people going in more than once. Usually, if they've seen you, know they've seen you, but apparently they were cool to see me again. I did it again. I did a different obviously set for them when I did it the second time I they had just hired Mikey day and Alex Moffat the year prior. So I was like, okay, they do not need any more white guys? They are all filled with white guys, so I am just gonna do some wild shit. I don't know if I'm allowed to curse on your podcast, but I did wild stuff that is probably not what most people would think to do for a five minute showcase for an SNL audition, I did something that had a lot of crowd work in it, and it was pretty much one long bit that I did. Instead of a diverse showcase of all the different tricks in my tool kit, I think I did one scene or one character and us in a song. I did like a little song. So the next night, few of us got a call, and we went to the hotel where Lauren was staying, and we got to meet Lauren. There was like, seven or eight of us that got to meet Lauren that night, and then this, that's again, like leaving there just even meeting Lauren and talking to him, and sitting even for five minutes, or whatever it felt like an hour. But even sitting there for a few minutes was another rung on the ladder that I was like, I didn't this is crazy that I even got to do this. The fact that I got invited to have drinks with this guy and talk to him even for a few minutes, was again, the mountaintop. I was like, this is a life story. It's crazy. This ends here. So a few weeks go by and they fly us out to to New York this time to kind of do the famous audition where you're on the host stage. And the message that Sharna sent to us said, Okay, guys, they're going to have blank, blank, blank, blank person come out, and all of you can do your five minutes that they saw you do in Chicago, except. At Luke, they want you to write an all new five minutes. They don't want you to do that long, drawn out crowd work bit. I'm thinking, I'm going into this. I'm losing my mind. I'm trying. I have two days to write in a new five minutes, which five minutes doesn't sound like a lot, but when it's when you only have that five minutes to impress them, you want it to be good, you want it to be tight. You want it to be rehearsed in an audition, you know, and tested out in front of actual people. So I was just like, going on a rampage, running around town, seeing what shows would let me test out some bits for them. And ended up going out and to New York really feeling like the last place horse. Long shot again, the whole experience. I'd never been in New York City before, so I'm, like, going across the Brooklyn Bridge with my, you know, like, Kevin McAllister and Home Alone two like, just like, oh my gosh, this is crazy. You know, my plane was delayed. I didn't know if I was gonna make it. It was this whole crazy, high stress. My heart's beating out of my chest. I'm peeing 750 times before I go, they stick you in. I'm in one of the cast members dressing rooms when you're auditioning. I was in 80 Bryant's dressing room just pacing around for hours. It takes forever. You're there all day, especially for the five minutes that you're gonna go. It's very intimidating, because you see some of the other people going in, and I was vaguely aware of some of these heavy hitters from LA and New York who are also there, who I was just like, Oh, these people are the real deal. Again. They don't need a white guy, and they didn't need a white guy is, as it turns out. But you know, you go in, you do your your five minutes, they kind of tell you what it's going to be like. They're like, we're going to bring you in under the bleachers. We're going to bring you onto the stage. The lights are going to come up, the red light's going to come on, say your name and go. And I went in. I did it. I did my stuff. Tried my best to stay loose. Loosey goosey. It's a famously ice cold room. You know, everybody is silhouetted in the back. Kind of Deal or No Deal banker style, they intentionally don't give you much. You know, they'll laugh a little bit, but they're, they're trying to kind of see you sweat. They're trying to see what it looks like when you're performing to dead air. So I went in, got them, got a few titters here and there, and walked out of there and had a great night in New York City, the first time I'd ever been there. And I thought to myself, again, crazy. This is what a mountaintop that I even got to do this. It's insane that I'm here. What a story I get to take this with me forever. But then I thought to myself, also, that's probably not the amount of response that I got, which was some, but not much. I'm like, that's not a winning audition. I'm like, it's, it's cool that I got to do this. Few weeks go by and they have a handful of us back a second time. The email is very much like the first hey, we'd like to see a new five minutes. Luke, any impressions, any political stuff, anything that you else you can show us that's not you being like a toddler and tear a stage dad from Newport, Kentucky. I'm like, okay, all right, I'm hearing that. I'm hearing these what you'd like to see. So I I'm not an impressionist who to thunk that I'm not on the show. Still, it's not something that I'm I would always be more of like in line of a like, somebody who just does, like a caricature rather than an actual impression. Like, I'm not going to be able to do an accurate much anything. I can do some musical impressions, but, yeah, my bag of tricks was relatively limited. So I went auditioned again, did the same thing, and because I knew what the deal was, this time, I was a little bit looser. I kind of walked in there and made them kind of made them wait for me a little bit. It was definitely a risk. I, you know, I went in with a cigarette in my lip, and I did a Jay Cutler impression. No one knows or cares who that is. No one that's not someone, but they really liked my Jay Cutler impression, where I kind of made them wait, and I was this, like, total douche. I tried to write things that were in the news that week. So that's what the job is. So I wrote a lot of things that were in the news that week. And again, I left and had a good response. Had some meetings the next day. They keep you the you know, they kept me. The following day, I met everybody in that building, again, most of the senior writers, a lot of the producers, and then at the end of the day, I just went and literally just said, Hey, Lauren, how's it going? Lauren said, Hey, I already met you, so we don't need to do this again. I was like, Cool. Thanks. Neat. Catch you later. My dude called him my dude, that's probably what got it locked in for me. Another couple weeks went by, you put it out of your head. You think, Wow, crazy. I made it that far. What a mountaintop. Cool story. Then I got the phone call at like, 445 on a Friday afternoon at my tech startup job, and I stood up from my desk, and I basically gave them my 15 minutes notice, and I lived in New York that following Monday. Okay, and proceeded to just get my ass kicked for a for a calendar year after that. So that phone call is definitely a high water mark in terms of the good feeling that's pretty was all downhill.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:11

Well, let's, let's before. So did you know Alex Moffat the year he got on or we just happened to both be in Chicago?

Luke Null 15:18

Weirdly, he had actually auditioned a few times in Chicago and hadn't been living in Los Angeles, so he was living in LA and I think managed to kind of come back and smartly elbow his way in to the kids table, or to the, you know, adults table again and audition for them again. So he had auditioned for them, like, a few times, and yeah, so I didn't know him, but I knew of him, great dude. So so funny, so so talented, but I did not know him until I got on the show. Okay,

Speaker 1 15:48

I was just curious, because both being at that one show, just wondering so you, when you finally made it to the cast, you didn't really know anyone, or had you worked with any of these folks before? No,

Luke Null 15:58

I came in. That's also something that's very tough about being new in that place is that you know, you don't have a lot of allies, that you know you're coming in, you're just, you know, a goldfish dropped into the tank, sink or swim, and they already are all friends. So it's like, okay, so it is. It's tough to be new there and not come from a place where you are friends with someone who's already a writer or already, uh, so, yeah, so, but you kind of stick with your class, so you kind of hang with the with the freshman when you're when you're new there.

Speaker 1 16:32

So you came in with Heidi Gardner and Chris red, mm hmm,

Luke Null 16:36

yep. And Chris, Chris and I shared a dressing room. I love, love both those guys. Heidi's so, so funny and so underrated and underused on that show. She is a tour de force. So I

Speaker 1 16:48

feel sometimes, when I watch, I watch the show, and I feel like she's in so many sketches, like I can't believe she because she was a featured player for a while, right? They just used, yeah, they used her a lot. Yeah, Chris, she's so good, so so good. And Chris is definitely found. He's kind of got his own groove going now. Oh,

Luke Null 17:04

Chris. Chris came in already, uh, kind of with the confidence of someone who'd been there for years, which is really smart, and something I wish I it was in my DNA at all, but it is not. I did. Yeah. Came in real green, yeah. But it ages you. You learn pretty quick.

Speaker 1 17:20

Okay, so let me, let me ask you one quick question, just a general Saturday life question, because this cast has been around for a long time, and I don't know that other than like Kate McKinnon and Keenan Thompson and then Leslie Jones, a lot of them. It's not like past cast, where I think I felt like I knew all these people's names and everything like that. And I think a lot of it has to be, and I know this has been in the news. It's not a an original insight, but like that, they kept bringing in celebrities to do main things that in the past had been the roles that had escalated a lot of those cast members to, you know, to their renowned status. Did you What would you feel that when you were there? I mean, absolutely,

Luke Null 17:58

yeah. I mean, when I was there, there was 16 people on the cast. I was definitely 16th of 16 when I was there. And I you mean, in what you just said, and that everybody knows that that is the case. I think a lot of it comes back to the ratings. I know that prior to 2016 I'm not gonna say I might like shitting on them, but I don't think their ratings were necessarily as big. I think a lot of the streaming platforms were kind of leeching it, because they used to say the only competition that SNL has, you know, in terms of the time slot, is it's either us or sleep. So we're fighting with sleep. But I think a lot of their viewership was now being judged off of like Hulu and streams the following. You know, Sunday morning, they found this massive ratings spike in 2016 with Alec Baldwin being Trump, and then with Melissa McCarthy being John Spicer. And they kind of saw this massive rating spike coming, and they tied it, probably rightfully so. Back to having a list castings for, you know, Cameo spots for Robert De Niro playing Muller. You know, a million people came in and played prominent political stuff. And, you know, it's something that I'm I'm certain the cast is a little like, what are we here for? Then I know I certainly was never gonna be the one to speak up or talk or be like, you know, I was happy to be waiter number one in the back of a sketch. I was just trying to survive, and I did not. I got fired. Spoiler, spoiler. I got fired. But, I mean, I left, I left on as good a terms as I possibly could have after being there for one season. It was, there's was no bad blood. They weren't like, you suck and are bad. It was more just like, there's no room for you.

Speaker 2 19:52

Yeah, well, we'll get there. Let's build up today. Yeah, we'll build up

Luke Null 19:56

to me being fired. But, yeah, it's, it's definitely something that. That everyone is aware of, that most people are watching the first the cold open, and the first couple sketches, you know.

Speaker 1 20:08

Now I think our friend Alex Moffat is the new Joe Biden. And I think so i because it was, it was Jim Carrey who had didn't, I didn't love Jim Carrey's. I thought that was, that was the only miss miscast. I think it was it. I just didn't get it. Didn't it didn't click with me. He kind of looked like Joe Biden, but I don't know, Melissa McCarthy, I think was

Luke Null 20:30

the, oh, she dunked, just slam dunk, yeah, the most brilliant

Speaker 1 20:34

of them all. And the fact that he got fired so fast right after that was such a bummer. Such a bummer. Yeah? And Kate McKinnon with her Rudy Giuliani and all that kind of

Luke Null 20:43

stuff. I mean, Kate plays, that's the other thing. Is that, like Kate plays pretty much everyone else, that it's like most of the people that don't aren't cast by an A list celebrity are. And that's a testament to how funny and great Kate McKinnon is, is that she can just play everybody else, which, yeah, yeah, she's someone I would throw in who can definitely has, like, a stable of great, like, accurate, like, spot on impressions, but somebody who just is so great at making caricature impressions, you know, that aren't necessarily like, man, that's exactly what Jeff Sessions look sounds like. It's like, no, no. She's so funny, and just makes him a little goblin. And, you know, or whatever she's, she's great at

Speaker 1 21:24

that right kind of how Chevy Chase used to play. Glenn Ford, Will

Luke Null 21:28

Ferrell too? Will Ferrell's Bush is like, is it accurate, kinda, but it's mostly super funny because of how funny he is. Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:36

So did you get to work a lot with, or get to know at least Kate McKinnon,

Luke Null 21:40

I got to work with everybody, which was cool. Definitely, the more I was in a show, you know, there were weeks where I was only in one sketch or something, you know. And so if you're not in very much, you're not hanging out, you're not going a lot of rehearsals and stuff. But the more you're in shows, the more you get to hang and that definitely goes for the hosts too. You know, you get to kind of know the host a little bit more over the course of a week, if you're involved a little bit more that week. But definitely got, got to know everybody on the cast. And it's was definitely a treat to get to know some of those people. What was

Speaker 1 22:14

it like day to day? I read, I read the 25 years Saturday live book that came out many years ago. Is it accurate? Like talk, talk through the writing process, and how you would pitch a sketch and how it would get accepted or rejected, or accepted, then rejected, you know. And how does that all work? Sure,

Luke Null 22:29

it's that book. I read that book when I got cast as well, and I remember feeling like I was reading like a user manual or like a history book to the job I was about to start, and it is, if there's anything about Lauren, is that he likes things the way he likes to do them. A lot of the way they do things there has not changed since 1975 they do the way they structure. The Week is pretty much exactly the same, which is Monday's. Is the pitch you're meeting the host. It's structured as a pitch where you're pitching the host sketch ideas, but in practice, it's more of a icebreaker, getting to know the host. You're not there all day. You're only there in the evening, just to basically meet them, put the host at ease a little bit, and then kind of collect yourself and kind of game plan for what you're going to do and what you're planning to write. A lot of people, you know, you're just trying to get a laugh in the room. Everyone is crammed in Lorne Michaels office, crisscross applesauce on the floor, and you go around, you just literally pitch like a premise of a sketch or just one joke of something, and you're just trying to get get a laugh. But usually you're not writing that sketch like you're not actually pitching the sketch. You planned to put your, you know, all your eggs in that basket, just because you're burning a joke. A lot of the times, something that kills as a joke in the pitch room, someone will spend time and write it up. You know, they'll spend Tuesday, which is the writing day, kind of putting a lot of time and effort into writing it up. But then once it's read aloud, we all know where what the joke is, so it doesn't hit, which I'm on, I always think is a little bit short sighted. That's my hot take. It was the producers, where we're like, Yeah, we all know what joke is coming but like, people would love this joke. We're just not laughing at it because we've already heard it, so you are kind of saving your ace in the hole. It's a lot of it's a little strategic. It's a lot of people kind of feeling each other out of what they're working on. They're like, are you guys doing a commercial parody? Because if you're doing a commercial parody, we don't want to do that, because we don't want to bump with you guys. We don't want to have two things that are too similar, because then one of them will probably get cut before the table. That's something that's tough. Tuesday is the writing day. It's where you get there whenever you leave whenever. So it's like, get submit, what you want to submit, work with, who you want to work with. It's usually an all nighter. For me, it was definitely always an all nighter. It's a lot of strategy, because if you're new, there. Are only going to read so much of your stuff. You know what I mean. So I started to realize, like, if I'm writing three sketches and submitting three sketches to be read aloud the following day, one of them be in the pile. The next day, they'll read between 36 and 40 sketches during the read through on the Wednesday. And when I was there, it was 16 cast and 16 writers. So the math there is off, you know, if you're new, you're getting one maybe two things that are your like, original, like, your name is first. So there's a lot of jockeying for position, of like, hey, I really had this great idea for sketch, but you put your name on it and my name, can you know? Because if my name is already on this one first, and I don't want it to get cut, because they'll see, you know what I mean. So it's, it's a lot of that. It's a lot of lobbying. To the head writer, who, at the time I was there, was Eric Kenward, who, I don't envy. His job, that would be miserable of having 30 people knocking on your door trying to be like, Please, let me read this tomorrow, because it really I never got I don't know if I'm allowed to curse or not. You can't. I can tonight. It really fucking sucks when you spend all night long working on something and really perfecting it and practicing, you know, and then it's cut before the table, before anyone even gets to hear it. A lot of the things that I'm the most proud of that I wrote during my time, there not a single soul got to hear it, you know what I mean. And there's definitely some brutal stories from that. Like I wrote a song I pitched to Donald Glover, and Donald Glover really liked the song, and he's like, where did you record this demo? And I took him down to the music department. He recorded vocals on a demo of a stupid song I had pitched, and it was cut pre tabled. No one got to hear it. No one got and it just like destroyed me, because it was just such a cool opportunity. And I was like, Man, this would if they're ever gonna let me do this. This this would be a really cool one, to at least pitch it, but it sucks to not even get a swing. And then Wednesday rolls around. You're like I said, it's split up into two, like 20 sketches, and then whatever the back nine is 16 to 20 more. And it's It's long, it's a long day. Everyone's exhausted. You've been staying up all night, you're running on fumes. All the cast is is stacked around the around the table. Everyone has a stack of papers, like two feet high, because we're reading 40 sketches. And that's another thing that's very like this has not changed since the 70s. Is like the needless printing of 1000 sketches, when we could easily all just have an iPad or something, but they have everybody that they can that wants to be involved and wants to hear the sketches in there. So all of the writers, the producers, Lorne, all of the music people, the costumers, the hair people, there's people overflowing into the hallways. They have, you know, it's a lot of people listening to these sketches be read aloud, and the host is pretty much reading them blind, but it's another place where seniority definitely helps. Like, if you're someone who's been a writer there for years, your sketch is going to be read in the first 20 sketches. You know you're so when you're new there, like, my my slot was like, second to last, because last is a good slot, because everyone's like, Okay, after this, we're done. But that, like five sketches before the very end is just the graveyard slot, like there's just you have so little chance of your sketch getting anything, because we've already listened to 35 straight sketches be pitched before yours. So it's being new there, the odds are against you, and then even if your sketch kills, you are I, you know, I was 16th of 16 when it came to priority in the cast. You know, even if your sketch kills, they'll still be like it was you. It was really good. You wrote a really great sketch. But we do need to serve our stars. We need to make sure that the people who are in the main cast all the way are served so that you definitely take some else that way, like so for in order to get a sketch in as a new person, you have to be undeniably one of the best sketches of the day. And for some other people to have a like a out of characteristically bad day. You know what I mean? Because you're any ties, you're gonna lose the ties. And I totally get why, but it is frustrating, because when you're there and things aren't going well, it sucks. And they tell you, the only advice they really give you is you gotta write for yourself. You got to write for yourself and really show us, and show the all the writers like what you can do. But then when all of your stuff gets cut before you're even able to show anyone, it feels very much just like you're stuck in the mud, like there's literally you're just dead on arrival, which is kind of how I felt most of the time I was there, which is, man, oh, man. Then I have literally zero chance of sticking around there. Yeah, yeah. It's it's a wild place. But then it's crazy, because once the sketches get picked. So we read all these sketches, they go and deliberate in old Lauren's office. They come out and they highlight sketches on the wall, kind of like high school theater style, and you kind of see what is in this week, what's going to be produced? Usually, they'll pick nine live sketches in three pre tape sketches. So 12 in total you spend the Thursday is, is the writers rewriting all 12 of those scripts together in their in their rooms. A lot of it is camera. The cast is starting to rehearse things, but it's more for, like, camera blocking and just getting the directing side down and set up. You're going, you know, as soon as the sketches are picked, you are sitting down with the wardrobe people, the makeup people, the hair people, of like, okay, what do you think this person's gonna look like, and where? What wigs do we need to start working on? What costumes do we need? And so you kind of are like, you're kind of the show Bible for your one little sketch Friday is more rehearsals, shooting the pre tape sketches now that everything's been rewritten. So if you're in any pre tapes, it's going to be 6am or you're going to be out and about all night, you know it's it's crazy, because a lot of the pre tapes, you are usually not shot in studio 8h there somewhere else. It's a little traveling around New York City and different sound stages and stuff. And then Saturday, you're rehearsing all day. You're kind of going through the show. They're making sure all the camera blocking is good to go. They're making any last minute changes to your cards on your the cue cards, because you are reading off the cue cards, because they're changing that stuff all the time shortening. We got to shave 20 seconds off of this blah, blah, blah. It's a lot of pine budgeting. You'll do the dress rehearsal. The dress rehearsal happens. People camp out for it. So, you know, the dress rehearsal is usually filled with the die hard fans of whoever the host or the music guest is. So if it's like Taylor Swift week, that dress rehearsal crowd, that's going to be 250 15 year old girls who love T Swift, you know. So it is crazy to think of like, how much power they have too. Of what works for them is what gets picked to be in the show. So they go through they do all 12. Then we all go back up to Lauren's other office, criss cross applesauce. Everyone's jammed into his office. And we you see on his on his wall, what's going to be in the show and when it's going to be slated. Then if your sketch makes it into the show, usually they cut three or four sketches, so it's down to like eight or nine sketches actually get into the episode, then the real show starts. The vibe is electric. It's so cool and it's such a fun place to be, or you're just like, absolutely depressed because all of your stuff is cut and you're no longer in it, or whatever. You know, I definitely got blanked more times than I would like care to admit, in terms of, like, stuff being in and then cut it dress. Then there's the most painful dagger of making it through all of what I've just listed being picked to be in the show, and your sketch is last on the board. So then that's what they refer to as cut for time, meaning it was slated to be in the show they just ran over time, something or other ran long. And so your sketch gets cut, and you don't even get to do it, even though you're, like, standing in costume ready to go out, and you just hear over the speaker, like, and this is cut. This is cut cool. So I had a couple of those too. But yeah, it's it's a crazy, crazy whirlwind of a place, and it's a wild place to not have any allies coming into is for sure.

Speaker 1 33:43

Wow, that's intense. Thank you for taking on, sure. So let me ask you a question. I'm trying to word this right, the

Unknown Speaker 33:50

two. Why do you suck so bad? No,

Speaker 1 33:53

no. So I've been watching Saturday live for a very long time, and there's definitely it feels like, for the most part, the beginning sketches are great, and then they get worse as the night goes on. And sometimes, sometimes you can have a really good one later on. But if they're dealing with so many sketches, how is it they aren't all out of the ballpark, you know? I mean, is it? Is it because of what you just said? Meaning it's there's too much politics into it, or they just feel funny, and then they're not, because it just doesn't make sense. So you'd have duds when you're dealing with as many opportunities as you discussed, there's

Luke Null 34:26

a lot of moving parts to things that hit and things that don't what I said, just like, sometimes the audience is filled with some like, you know, they're there for Taylor Swift in this in this sketch that, you know, it sounds like you don't think about it. But if, like, the crowd isn't loving it during the live taping, but they loved it at dress it feels like a miss of a sketch when it was like, Man, the dress rehearsal version of this was so good. Or, you know what I mean, like, a lot of stuff gets rewritten, a lot like the funniest sketches that get read out. On a Wednesday, they're not going to be that by Saturday, meaning they're not picking necessarily the funniest possible show. They're picking the show that they think is going to be able to appeal to the widest margin of people. Whether it's like, I think that's a little shitty of me to be like, it's lowest common denominator humor. I don't think that that's true, but I do think they're not necessarily picking the 12 sketches that are just dunked the hardest in the room, because I never got to be sitting back in that room while they picked. I'm sure the host gets a say of like, hey, I really liked this one. And I'm sure there's times where they're like, really so the host, what they want, I'm sure, goes into it. Things get rewritten and kind of watered down. A lot of the things that you that made it so funny and good, you know, once it goes through standards and practices, or once you have to shave a minute out of a sketch, or, you know, changes things, but it is something that it is crazy to put on an hour long show and write up so much stuff, but sometimes, you know, as a new person sitting there, there were times where they're trying to pick a sketch that is did not do very well in the in the read through, it did not get a huge laugh, but it is very of the time. There they, you know, that's, that's their main stress is, like, we really want this to be a snapshot of the week kind of thing. So I remember there was, like, I was there when metoo movement was breaking, and they kept trying to pitch these sketches that were kind of a hot take on on me too. And they just kept eating shit at the dress rehearsal, and they just kept putting it back into, you know, they they just kept trying different iterations of it week after week. And I'm like, Man, this, ain't it? This hot take is like, let it breathe that people don't want this, but there's times where, you know, I'm not a producer. Clearly, I was only there for a year. I What do I know? But the priority is to appeal to the middle of the country and the widest possible audience, rather than, let's make the most. They're not trying to take risks, trying to play it as safe as they can. And weirdly, it's the ones that are a big swing that tend to be the marquee sketches of the year, the ones that you're like, What the hell is this? Those are the ones that, personally, I love, and the ones that you know, but I'm a comedy nerd, and so my taste is definitely different. But yeah, it is weird, the decisions that they would make as to what would be in the show because it's, it's a it's not an exact science. What kills in the room or what they think is going to work does not always work. It's live.

Speaker 1 37:48

It's It's interesting watching. You can sometimes watch and know immediately that this is going to be a sketch they're going to talk about for decades. I remember why I watched the cowbell sketch the very first time it was on, and you just knew. The most recent one that I can think of is Pete Davidson with his Eminem parody with Stan of Stan. Oh, yeah. Like, to me, like, like, this one is and I'm hit or miss on Pete Davidson, to be honest with you. But, like, but this particular parody sketch was, like, amazing. It was Santa, right? Yeah. It started off with Santa. It was a Christmas episode and but it was just a great parody. It was, it was perfect.

Luke Null 38:24

Oh, it's great. And they, and especially some of those pre taped sketches, they can do so much cool stuff with those. So it's always like, kind of the coveted slot is trying to write a pre tape sketch, because they pour so much money into those pre taped sketches to make them look good, and the production behind those are, it's crazy that they get those made in the time that they have. It really is crazy. Like I a sketch that I wrote that actually made it into the show. That was a pre taped sketch was I wrote one that was Flora Bama shore. It was like a MTV show that was coming out at the time. And there was they had just had like, a massive hurricane, so it was just like the simple pitch of trashy reality show, but it's taking place during a hurricane, and it's crazy. When they sat me down, they're like, Okay, what are you kind of thinking? I was like, Well, I was thinking we'd go to like, a club, and we're like, halfway underwater, and we're like, dancing with like, up to our waist and like, waste water. And they're like, no problem. We can do that, sure. Anything else I was, like, I was thinking, like a palm tree would, like, bust out this window and, like, I get killed by a stop sign. Like, for sure, anything, you know, they made all of that happen, like showing up and seeing, like, a massive pool scene thing for literally two seconds of a sketch where it's just a, it's like a B roll of us dancing at a club in this water. It's, it's wild. The pre tapes, they can do so much cool stuff. And it's, it's hard to tell what, which of those will hit and what won't. What

Speaker 1 39:52

sketch of yours that made it is the one you're most proud of. Weirdly,

Luke Null 39:56

probably that one, just because it's. Yeah, it's probably the one that I put the most effort into, and it's the one that I think is the closest. A lot of, obviously, a lot of stuff had to get cut out of it. A lot of things had, you know, had to be shortened. But man, that dress rehearsal version of that sketch had a line in there that they had to take out where I'm, like, about to have sex with. It was Saoirse Ronan was hosting, and I'm like, a douche bag in the house, and I'm about to have sex with. Sex there. I'm like, just so you know, I don't want you to be alarmed. It's normal size down there, but it is all tip. And it was a line that was so weird and gross that, and it like killed in the in the dress rehearsal crowd. But then the standards and practices ladies like, all tip that has to go, like, that's too It paints too much of a picture. It has to go, okay, all right, that goes. So that's totally cut, but there's a button, yeah, it is crazy. How much gets trimmed that you don't see.

Speaker 1 40:52

So I was watching one of your sketches that you were in which I thought, I believe it was labeled cut for time, but it was a wedding toast. Yep, cut, yep, with John Mulaney. John Mulaney was in it, and you have a great voice, by the way. I know sometimes a guitar comics have good voices, but you had a good voice. This was you were singing, singing with Sicily strong also, I enjoy hearing but that was, that was a funny sketch, like, to me, like that would have been like a sketch people talked about for that to have been cut. What else was on that show? I mean, I know it was a John Mulaney episode, so probably a lot of it was really good because he was so funny, but

Luke Null 41:27

he's so funny, definitely, like, he picked two of my sketches to be in the show that week. He picked that one, and then we had this really wackadoo weirdo one that Heidi Gardner and I wrote called horns, where I'm like, a guy with body modification horns or something. I've seen that one too, which, that's another weird story where we worked all night on this other sketch, and we're like, okay, they always cut our sketches before the table. So this week, let's submit an old sketch that we wrote weeks ago as kind of the sacrificial lamb, and then the one that we worked on all night, we'll get to read that one tomorrow. Of course, the opposite happens. The one we worked on all night cut the one that we didn't really care about horns. And not only do we get to read, it gets into the show. And we're like, we've been working together and writing sketches all year, and of all the ones that we've submitted, this is the one that they actually let us do it really is like, Sure, of course, of course, this is the one. But yeah, at the end of the day, I probably would have preferred to have horns be cut for time and the other one make it in. But that one, I'm very thankful that they, that they put it online. Because that's not a guarantee either. Usually, if something is cut for time, it doesn't get put on YouTube. You know, it has to be something that they that they believed in, which that definitely one of my fondest memories. But that one was like, at the end of the year, I think John Mulaney was like the second or third host from the end, and it was really cool of him to to like my my junk enough to put it in the show,

Speaker 1 43:03

okay, besides John Mulaney, who was your favorite host, so you got to work with,

Luke Null 43:07

besides John Mulaney, it was probably John Mulaney would be my pick. I think Donald Glover, even though, like all of my sketches were cut, and I was barely in that episode at all, I might have been not even in it at all, but just getting to record with him was so cool. And getting to he was one of the weeks I went to the host dinner, James Franco wasn't was very kind to me too. Will Ferrell was I was, like, afraid of him. He was probably the person I was the most star struck by, just because I looked up to him so much. But yeah, just search your own into because I got to spend a lot of time with her because I had several sketches. She was really cool and normal and fun. Of

Speaker 1 43:50

the cast members that you worked with, who are you most shocked isn't more famous? Um,

Luke Null 43:57

or No, I No, I think they're all pretty famous. But

Speaker 1 44:01

no, no. I mean, like, you know, like, I think Leslie Jones now is like, at a certain level. And when I say famous, I mean, you know, breakout, like, breakout, breakout star. Like, I think Leslie Jones is there. But like, you know. And I think Keenan Thompson is there. Like, is there any like, and Kate McKinnon, I wouldn't say, you know, like, Kate McKinnon is a breakout star. Everyone knows who Kate McKinnon is. Is there anyone that you're like, like Melissa van uh, Melissa, who's I was aware of her more via Zenor. I was aware of her actually, before she went on Saturday live. And she is, like, one of the most talented people that they do not use at all.

Luke Null 44:34

That happens to some of the funniest people. I personally think Melissa is so, so funny and underutilized. I think Kyle Mooney is, like, pound for pound, one of the funniest people ever. He is so so funny is underused on the show. I think Heidi, for sure, Heidi is so so so funny, and should be everywhere and on billboards and everything, like she's just so funny. And. And this year, they hired my old office mate who was a writer on the show, a first year writer the year I was on the cast, Andrew DISMUKES, who I is so funny and great. And I I'm not watching the show anymore. I assume they're doing him dirty, like they did me. And I'm kidding. I assume it, you know, he's having a, you know, work his way in slowly. He is so funny too, and such a great stand up and deserves to be everywhere and on everything. He's so funny, and just a good dude, Solid Dude. So

Speaker 1 45:29

how did, how did you find out you weren't going to be renewed?

Luke Null 45:32

I Yeah, that's a nice way of saying, that's how they that's how they phrase it, we're not going to pick up your contract. Okay? I my agent called me, and they're like, they're not gonna pick you up, okay? But then I got I talked. I had one of the producers called me, which is not the most routine way. And, you know, I, like I said, I left on with as good of standing with them and them in my mind too. Like there really was no bad blood. It was really, at the end of the day, a case of just bad timing, I think I filled a need that they did not have, which was music guy, which I thought they hired me for that it became very clear they were not interested in having me do that on the show. But yeah, I mean, there's people there that already kind of filled the type of role I feel like Beck Bennett is just like a home run hitter, and is so funny and does so much great stuff at the table that they only let him do one of every 10 of his, you know, slam dunk sketches. But he's somebody who definitely, I've always felt like our Venn diagrams overlap a little bit. So I always knew, like, back go and get that I'm not but yeah, I left on on as good of terms as I think I possibly could have. And then,

Speaker 1 46:48

just so for everyone listening, being on Saturday live for one season has an excellent you're in excellent company, right? Being on Saturday Night Live for one season, you're an excellent company. Got Sarah Silverman, Ben Stiller, Jenny Slate, Robert Downey, Jr, Martin Short, there was a ton of people that did it and have gone on to do it, just like an American Idol. The winner didn't always become the famous person. Yeah, it's

Luke Null 47:12

the Daughtry. I'm trying to be the Chris Daughtry, or the or the William Hung. I'm trying to be the William

Speaker 1 47:17

Hung, maybe Daughtry. So tell us so you have album out, which is, and everyone should get it. Luke is hilarious. Tell everyone about your album again.

Luke Null 47:27

Kind of you to say, my I have a live stand up album. Music, stand up, some songs, some stories from SNL, things I pitched that they were like, Nah, Thanks, bud. But a lot of songs and stories and things recorded it in Chicago.

Speaker 1 47:41

Thank you so much for hanging out with me. I really appreciate it. Thanks for

Luke Null 47:45

having me. Man, this was fun. I got to just vomit up long stories of SNL. It was some

Speaker 1 47:51

of the best SNL vomited stories I've ever heard, and I'm happy to have heard them from you. Thank you so much. Thanks again, man.