#354 Annie Korzen: Viral at 86! Her Secrets to Reinvention

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

right, Monica, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome everybody. It's episode 354 of classic conversations, as always, I am your host. Jeff Dwoskin, great to have you back for what sure to be the most viral episode of all time. My guest today is none other than the amazing 86 year old tick tock sensation. Annie Korzen, you know, where is the Krispy Kreme lady. She's here. We're talking about Tiktok, her reoccurring role on Seinfeld. You loved her as Doris Columbus. Yes, you did. She's been on Brooklyn, nine, 910, 15. She's been in so much, and we're talking all about that in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds. Last week, Eric pasoja was here. We talked about comedy acting, getting into the mind of playing real villains. Amazing conversation with Eric and now, right now, an amazing conversation with Annie Korzen. We're talking about her career. We're talking about her book, the book of Annie, humor, heart and chutzpah, from an accidental influencer. Annie shares stories from her career and her rebirth in her 80s as a Tiktok sensation. You're gonna love this conversation. Annie's amazing, and that's coming up right now. All right, everyone. I'm excited to introduce my next guest. You may remember her as Doris Columbus from Seinfeld, or more recently, tick tock sensation, also author of the book of Annie humor, heart and chutzpah, from an accidental influencer. I am so excited to welcome to the show. Annie Korzen, hello, hi. How are you?

Annie Korzen 2:19

I'm pretty good. Actually, my life has surprised me. It's taking a turn that surprised me. So I'd say I'm okay.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:26

We can get into the acting and Seinfeld in a second. But like in your 80s, you become a Tiktok sensation. It's really

Annie Korzen 2:34

strange, isn't it? There's the last thing. It's certainly the last thing I ever expected. And I still don't quite understand it. I don't understand Tiktok. I don't understand social media as though that's why, in my book, I call it, you know, the I refer to myself as an accidental influencer. It all happened quite accidentally.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:54

So talk to me, because I was doing a little reading. You have a friend, and she got you to record something, and then you went famous as Krispy Kreme.

Annie Korzen 3:03

Well, the thing is this, I've always been I do something called storytelling. I don't know if you know, like the moth village to the moth. The storytelling is like the hero's personal essay, but in LA, I would get, if I was in a storytelling show, we were lucky if there was 60 people in the audience, you know, that would be a good crowd. So one day I said to like a 30 year old friend, I said, I wish I could find a larger audience from my stories. I I think I have something to say. Maybe I should put some lips up on Instagram. And she being 30s, what? Oh, no, Instagram is so toxic. It's so last century, you belong on tick tock. And I said, You're crazy. Tick tock is about young girls shaking their booties, putting on makeup. Why, whoever? Why would anybody want to hear from this old urban Jewish lady? And she said, Trust me, you will go viral. And here's the thing, one of the themes of my book is that you have to have a mantra in life. And I try to keep my mantra as Yeah, why not? Well, something is suggested to me that I kind of think is ridiculous on the other hand. What am I going to lose? So I go, Yeah, why not? So I said to her, I think this is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. But yeah, why not? Let's do it, if you help me with a text. Up, and she was right. I went viral. I now have, I think, I think I have around half a million, half a million followers and many, many millions of of likes. Oh no, yeah, half a million followers. I'm as surprised as anyone else, except maybe I'm not surprised, because I really do think that older women like myself have something to offer that's been overlooked for a long time, and suddenly now is getting attention. I think I have wisdom, I think I have life experience. I think I have something to say and something to inspire people with, and I'm finally getting a chance to talk. So yeah, it is going from 60 people in a room to half of. People on the internet. To me, it's been a nice bump,

Jeff Dwoskin 5:05

amazing. And, yeah, it's 14 million likes, but the move, the baller move, is following 00.

Annie Korzen 5:17

That's right, yeah, right. I don't follow anybody. You know, one of the reasons I don't is because it's public. They tell you who you follow. I don't want if I would follow someone. I don't want people to know who I follow. That's number one, there are some people that I look at. And number two, as I said, I don't really understand Tiktok. I don't understand Instagram. The only social media I honestly use is Facebook because I'm an old person, only old people use Facebook and I like it. I'm really there as a performer, not as a I don't want any more time sucking things in my life. But the main thing, as I say, is, because it's not private information, I don't want people to know who I'm following and who I'm not following does that make any sense to you? 100% 100% are you on Tiktok? Do you follow people? I

Jeff Dwoskin 6:07

follow people. But now that I know I can get half a million without following people, I might stop. I will say that I always joke, like I just recently had one clip, and I average around 200 views one clip go 150,000

Annie Korzen 6:23

Oh, good for you. What was it about?

Jeff Dwoskin 6:26

It was a clip about Nicole Eggert from our interview that we did where she was talking about Corey Haim. And the only other one I had 44,001 where Bill shaft from the Letterman Show, was talking about Martin Short. I swear to God, those are the only two. And really followers are from those two videos.

Annie Korzen 6:46

How interesting? Well, you know, you might need. I actually have somebody that I consult with who advises me on what to do and what to talk about, and sometimes it's hard to do all on your own. I've had help along the way, and I certainly would need help, because I'm a total technophobe, techno moron. You know, I had trouble figuring out how to get on here today.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:09

Annie, talk to me. So your original viral video was, you're talking about Krispy Kreme donuts. And I'll tell you what an idiot I am on Tiktok. I somehow came across one where you're like, you're explaining that you're the Krispy Kreme woman, right? And, oh, I explained the origin, yeah. And so I'm like, I gotta find this video. So I started searching for it. And then I think, Oh, I'll search corazin cream. And then it comes right up. And then after all this, I go back to your profile to realize I skipped past your pinned ones, and it was right there the whole time, 2.4 million views, just saying that, Chris, I

Annie Korzen 7:48

think it's actually been more than that, because that's just tick tock. Somebody wrote me that because then people share it on other platforms. So they shared it on on instant. They shared it other play. Somebody, a friend of mine said, Do you know that you that thing has been seen over a billion times, and I get stopped in the street, which I love, because I'm an attention or reformer. People stop me. Oh, you're the Krispy Kreme. A lot of them, I think most of my fans, don't actually know my name. They just know me as the Krispy Kreme lady. So they'll stop and ask for a selfie or whatever. But it's weird, and that's the one that I cannot understand. I cannot understand why that? Why people respond to that the way they do? You

Jeff Dwoskin 8:27

never know. That's the crazy thing. You upload these things, something can blow up and yeah, and then the next thing doesn't Yeah. I just sometimes things just hit you, just Yeah. But that was, well, you know what you're

Annie Korzen 8:42

saying, which is true, which is that, in a way, it's another one of the themes of my book. If there's something that you're passionate about doing like I am, about sharing my thoughts, speaking my own words, you just have to keep doing it. As you just said, you don't know what's going to suddenly affect people you don't know what's gonna you just do your thing. My thing is to share what I feel. I feel donuts should be crispy and Krispy Kreme donuts are not crispy. That's all I was trying to say. It's taken on a life of its own because people are reading something else into it. They're reading somebody who's making small talk, who's bad at talking. Do you know what sounds are on tick tock. I think so you know what a sound is. It's when somebody, someone, will take that video that I did and make another video using my lip syncing, yeah, but putting it now, I've had, I think there are hundreds of 1000s of sounds of that particular video, but people put their own interpreter. They'll say, This is me trying to talk to my girlfriend's dad. This is me trying to make conversation at a cocktail party. In other words, they put their and so they use my voice but create their own scenario. So for the most part, it's about people who are awkward having trouble speaking. That was never my entire. Mentioned. I was just talking about donuts. You just wanted a crispy donut. I just wanted a crispy donut like I remember from my childhood. Are you too young to remember

Jeff Dwoskin 10:09

chock full of nuts? I remember Chuck full of nuts. They had

Annie Korzen 10:13

good donuts, old wheat donuts, crispy, warm and crispy on the outside, moist and flaky on the inside, it was maybe a little bit of powder on top, no disgusting icing or any of that crap. I'm not a big icing fish cream

Jeff Dwoskin 10:26

is is a thing in its own, though. Alright? So people come up to you so you're known more for that, you think, on the street than anything else,

Annie Korzen 10:34

totally. But then I do get some lovely comments. I mean, I read all the comments, and since I talk about things, I consider myself a humorous but I also talk about serious things, about marriage and motherhood and fashion and thrifting and lifestyle and so and some of my stuff gets a little serious, but I do get the people telling me I love your wisdom. I love your insight. I needed to thank you. I needed to hear this today. I do want to encourage people to live their best lives, if I can. I mean, why not? Right? Only got one life, you might as well live your best one, right, right,

Jeff Dwoskin 11:09

exactly, exactly. Now, I love your tick tock I as I started to go down it, discovering it after we connected. There's just something can I say, soothing about just listening to you talk. I mean,

Annie Korzen 11:23

I've heard that before, and you know, something funny, I've always hated my voice, always as an actor, because I when I listen to myself, I hear the Bronx where I grew up, and I worked very hard trying to get the Bronx accent out. But when I listen to myself, I hear it. So I get a lot of comments like the one you just made. We love your voice. We love listening to we like the sound. It's healing. It's soothing. And I'm thinking, are they talking to me?

Jeff Dwoskin 11:50

Well, I think your voice at this point is it's unique. When you talk, it's like, wherever you brought that accent down to it. Just when you talk, it's like, very unique voice.

Annie Korzen 12:00

This has all been a surprise to me so, you know, so I guess we just have to stay long enough, because I've always wanted wide acceptance and wide not going to say adulation, but appreciation. And I'm getting now what I in some ways I'm thinking, Oh, I wish I had gotten this when I was 40. But hey, whenever it happens, it happens, right? But as I said before, if you keep doing what you do, I do keep writing. I mean, on all those years when I didn't have this big audience, I kept writing. I kept creating stories, I kept creating material. So this is like a payoff for many years of insignificance or anonymity. Is that the word

Jeff Dwoskin 12:41

So Annie, let's go back in time then. So I know you've been acting on TV since at least the mid 70s. Is that sound right? Like looking at your IMDB like tonight, 80s foreplay,

Annie Korzen 12:55

early ones. My big thing happened in the 90s, and you know what that was, right,

Jeff Dwoskin 12:58

right? But leading up to that, leading up to Seinfeld, what was your original plan? When did this journey begin? I always thought it'd

Annie Korzen 13:06

be great to be on a sitcom, but I never had a big career. My looks were wrong. My age was wrong. I was basically a bit player. I still am, in a way, I'm just a better known bid player. Did you see me? By the way, in Thelma. I was just in Thelma. No, I didn't see that. Have you seen Thelma? I have a nice little scene in that, but I never had a significant career. And then in 91 my agent, I mean, so as I say, I'm I'm a comedy person, so I always thought I belonged on a sitcom. That's where I thought I should be. But in 91 my agent called and he said, Listen, this is new show. I don't know anything about it. There's a very small role, a couple of lines, and a better known actress whom I knew, a better known actress at the agency, turned down the audition because she said, It's too small and I have no self respect. I'll do it. So I said, Okay, I'll go in. And I went in and I did a couple of lines. And when we watched the show at home, when it ran, my husband said, I don't get this, so it's not about anything. So that was Seinfeld, and I didn't know, or maybe they didn't know, the time that my character would recur. So I ended up having a recurring role on Seinfeld. And again, back to my Yeah, why not thing? When they offered it to me. I thought, well, yeah, why not? So it's a couple of lines. Is a day's pay since I went back and did a couple of DARS compasses, plus they brought me back in season four for a second character. I'm an obnoxious airline person. So in the four or five episodes I did, I don't think I had more than 30 lines. It's still a bit player. This is 1991 right at this point, I have earned over $100,000 in residuals from those 30 lines. So I sometimes think about the actress who said, Well, no, it's not good enough for me and my my think of do it by just say, do it. Do not know doing something is better than not doing something, right? I don't regret anything in my life. I've done just the things I haven't done.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:08

So over the years, okay, so, Ev, since then, you've received $100,000 in residual checks from, that's right, four episodes of Seinfeld. That's, well, there's

Annie Korzen 15:18

another one. You know, I'm in the 100 best day, a compilation thing. So it's four or five,

Jeff Dwoskin 15:23

Okay, gotcha. Gotcha. So I who turned it down as a bit player, though, as a bit player, right? But, you know, sometimes, like I was talking to Kenny Daniel, the comedian on the show, too. And even like putty like, when you think about like, as much as they stick in your head, they were only in nine episodes. There's not like the number of episodes that some of these folks were in is so small, but the impact that this show had, even with minimal exposure. Case in point, you know, then just, it's amazing. So who turned it down? I need to know who turned it down. But

Annie Korzen 15:58

here's the thing, though, it's not just about the money. My stock went up as a performer. Suddenly, I was being seen by casting directors who wouldn't see me before, because the cache of having a recurring role on Seinfeld is very, very meaningful. So that opened all kinds of doors for me. It was really a life changing experience for me, being on that show that no one ever heard of, that wasn't about anything. It's amazing. I suddenly got respect as a performer. Occasionally, it will even happen that a producer will call my agent and they'll say, is Annie available next week? Because one of the things about me is, and about good bit players like myself, is I know how to get a laugh on one line, and that's a skill. That's a specific skill. I know how to find the funny. I know how to get a laugh on online. So sometimes I will, I will just say, Does Annie have time? Because she come in and do a day next week, we have a small, a small thing for her to do. And again, I don't say no to anything. Yeah, I do it. Why not hired

Jeff Dwoskin 16:55

gun for laughs. Steve Hytner, that's Kenny Banette, Annie. Do you know who? Or can you tell me who the actress was that turned down your role? I

Annie Korzen 17:04

do, but I don't. I don't think I should say her name. I don't think I should, should I? No, why not? She didn't want it. It's not like I don't know. Well, it was Alex, Alex Elias, and when I knew her, she worked a lot, and she worked a lot in commercials. She made a lot of it. I haven't heard anything about her in many years, so I'm not sure she stayed in or I don't know anything about her, but I remember that she was one of the actresses that I looked up. I said, I always thought, Well, I wish I could have a career like hers. She had a very specific I mean, she was good, she was cute, she had a cute voice. And if I would walk into a distance, and she was there. I knew that she was going to get it, not me. So it was just just strange.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:47

Well, thank you. All right. So okay, so now you're, now you're on Seinfeld. It's a hot show. You're hot for Seinfeld. Talk to me about because you got to work with Liz Sheridan, Barney, Martin, Sandy Baron, I

Annie Korzen 17:58

love Liz. I love Barney. I loved everybody. I mean, they're nice people, including Jerry. By the way, Jerry's very gentle, very nice, considerate. It was a pleasant place to be. So

Jeff Dwoskin 18:11

they treated you well, even the coming in just, you know, every once a season, every few seasons, that's always

Annie Korzen 18:17

a in the beginning, when you do a little bit player, bit part like that, it's really more difficult than it sounds, because you're the new kid on the block. They already have established relationships. They're a family. You got to be careful. You don't sit down with them at lunch unless they invite. You don't talk to them in makeup unless they talk for you know, you gotta kind of say away. But since I kept since I repeated, so eventually I got friendly with people, and I got to know them, and it was okay. It's a very doing that kind of work. Being a big player, especially on a hit show like that, is not the easiest thing to maneuver. You've got to figure out how to fit in in a subtle way, because

Jeff Dwoskin 18:58

they don't know if you're coming back, you're just there for a little bit. You're leaving, but then, but the third time you're there, fourth time, now you're like, hey, come

Annie Korzen 19:05

with Oh Annie, good to see you. What's going on, right? Right? When you talk

Jeff Dwoskin 19:09

about your residual checks, it probably doesn't hurt that you were in some really classic episodes.

Annie Korzen 19:15

That's the thing. Isn't that funny, right? I am in my first one was the pen, right? Did the Cadillac. I did raincoats. What else did I do? The airplane one where Elaine is stuck in

Jeff Dwoskin 19:28

writing coach with you, and this other guy, and while Jerry's in first class with a model.

Annie Korzen 19:34

So I'm really in some of the classic episodes. How lucky was that amazing?

Jeff Dwoskin 19:40

Also lucky that it was such a good show. There were so many good classic episodes, but those, those definitely stick out.

Annie Korzen 19:47

Isn't that amazing that that I got that lucky, right? Yeah, the more

Jeff Dwoskin 19:51

the Morty Seinfeld episodes were always great. The ones that were was like Morty Seinfeld, like the raincoats, some of those, that crew that were you in the floor. Crew, yeah, right. Okay, so they brought you back. You played Doris, then they brought you back as a passenger, because probably at this point they don't know if you're coming back as Doris, and then they start writing you back as Doris. So in later seasons, no,

Annie Korzen 20:12

no, they brought me. I did. I think I did a couple of Doris, and then they said, Do you want to come in and do this other character? And I said again. I said, Yeah, why not to do that airplane one?

Jeff Dwoskin 20:22

All right, so forever Seinfeld, amazing. So you also did some you did mad about Mad About You, coach.

Annie Korzen 20:30

No, I never did that. Oh, wait a minute, I did. I think that's so funny. This is so funny. I forgot about that. Yes, I did mad about you. But my more recent ones that were interesting, at least to my eyes, to my Tiktok always I did pen 15, terrific show. Have you seen that I did pen 15? Did why women kill and I did the shrink next door, but the pen 15 the why women kill people, I'm still getting comments. People say, Oh, I just saw you last night on blah blah. People are still watching those shows. In

Jeff Dwoskin 21:00

addition to being a Tiktok star, you're still working. I mean, you're still like, you still have you're non stop. Oh yeah, I did

Annie Korzen 21:08

Thelma. And I just had a really small role in a movie that's about to open called the uninvited. But Thelma was fun. And here's the thing about Thelma, talking about older women star, Thelma, which is a lovely movie haven't seen, if you haven't seen, sorry, fell with June Squibb. She's 94 and a friend of mine, buddy Levine, who works all the time, has a great scene in it, and she's 95 so I was actually the young kid on the block. I was the youngster in that I'm 86

Jeff Dwoskin 21:35

you're bringing the average down.

Annie Korzen 21:38

My scene was with June Squibb. And now, do you know who this is? Richard Rowntree shaft, yes, yes. And so I was thrilled to meet him. You know, he still looked good, too. So it was funny. She had, she had a movie with a lot of very senior people there, all doing a very good job, too. I

Jeff Dwoskin 22:00

love that. That's so cool. Sorry to interrupt. Have to take a quick break. I do want to thank all of you for your support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors, you're supporting us here at Classic conversations, and that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my conversation with Annie corzen. Do you think like the path that you've taken or that was given to you as a character player, that it's opened it up for you to be on so many different things, because you can come in, kill it, then go on to another show.

Annie Korzen 22:33

No, I don't know. I have to think about that. I always feel that I've had a limited career, more limited than it should have been because of certain prejudices in Hollywood, for example, this is again why I appreciate my Tiktok status. If a casting call went out today for an attractive older woman, I would never be seen. I'm too ethnic looking. I'm too Jewish, they would say she's too charactery. I'm not what Hollywood considers attractive. My Tiktok followers, on the other hand, keep telling me how gorgeous I am. I've never heard that before in my life. I've never been told that I'm beautiful till I started doing Tiktok at 82 and people tell me I'm beautiful. I have always been told I am not pretty. I am charactery, which means also the things I think I should do like to play a judge or a lawyer or a therapist or a doctor. Again, I don't get seen for because they don't see me that way. They don't see me as something, as someone with education and authority, which I actually am in real life. I'm well educated, I'm well read, but I just play nasty, abrasive, Jewish, Italian, ethnic women. That's basically what I do over and over and over. Not a lot of variety there. So I have a little bit of resentment, not more than a little bit that I've been pigeon holed more than I needed to be, just because Hollywood has certain prejudices about how women should look, how attractive women should look, and how educated women should look. So what do you think about that?

Jeff Dwoskin 24:15

Think you're on to something there, I think, but you are beautiful, so don't, let, don't let Hollywood define how you are.

Annie Korzen 24:21

Okay. Now you have just said something that I'm going to interrupt you, because it is also one of the themes of the book. The Book of Annie Huber Hart was one of the themes of my book, because I've had this experience now in my in my geezer years, to be told that I'm beautiful is do not let how shall I say, Do not be imprisoned by other people's negative opinions of you. It took me a lifetime to learn that, and I'll tell you another way I learned it. All my life I have been told that I'm too talkative, that I'm too opinionated, that I'm too candid and. Blunt about what I think I've been criticized. I've been told it's an those are unattractive qualities, particularly in women, and I've always apologized for it. Oh, I talk too much. Oh, I'm too and guess what? Now on Tiktok, I am being celebrated for all the things that I was criticized for all my life. So that's why I'm saying we can't be we should not be imprisoned by other people's negative opinions. And I'll tell you something funny. I was just rereading Charles Dickens great expectations, and I don't know how much you remember the story, but this poor boy has a devastating love, devastating crush, for this cruel, beautiful, rich girl, and at one point in a scene, he says, Charles Dickens writes from the point of view of the boy, her contempt for me was infectious, and I caught it. In other words, he then had contempt for himself because of how she's looked. And I thought, Oh, my God, Charles Dickens is saying what I'm saying. Does that make sense? Does that resonate with you in any way? Have you experienced that your life?

Jeff Dwoskin 26:11

I totally get what you're saying. When you started talking about this, I had pulled out some quotes from your book about when you talked about Jewish looking equals ugly and all those schmuck in the shiksa movies that they make. And the note that I wrote was, oh, you this predates nobody wants this.

Annie Korzen 26:29

Don't start in on me. Don't start me on that. I hate it so much. I watched it all. I was amused, but everything that was offensive to me, every single thing, not just the treat, not just the depiction of all the Jewish characters, who are all disgusting in every way. The women are monstrous and entitled and spoiled and evil. The men are jerky, but the Gentile girls are uneducated, stupid who brings ham to a kosher hole. You know what I mean? How dumb do you have to be to bring pursuit to a closer home. Everyone there is so dealt with in such a shallow, superficial way. I did like him. I like the guy, like some of the actors, but I was very offended by the whole thing. I'm very angry at all the popularity is getting I really am.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:17

We have that discussion in our household a lot about the depicted, about the depiction of the Jewish women. Yeah, Tova fell

Annie Korzen 27:23

to eating ham out of the garbage and tell her you'll never get my son. I mean, such a monster. Why does a Jewish mother have to be a monster? Still to this day, it's the one racial stereotype that no one objects to. It's the one left that no one objects to ever Yes.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:41

And the other thing is, like with the turn of with Hollywood being so focused on you have to be the thing to play the thing. Oh, right. And then, but the only exception seems to be Jewish people. Anyone can be played totally

Annie Korzen 27:57

true, anyone, anyone. And I don't mind it if they're really if they're believable, you know, I didn't mind when, when? What's your name? Valerie, what's wrong? They played Rhoda,

Jeff Dwoskin 28:07

right? And the the Miss Maisel characters were great. I thought the father, Tony Shub was amazing, because he was believable.

Annie Korzen 28:13

He was good. People who do it and who bad at it. It drives me crazy. Ruth Bader, Ginsburg, you know, gold of my year has been portrayed twice in the movies, once by Ingrid Bergman, once by Helen Baron. I mean, come on, that's always my joke. If they make a story, I always used to say one of my solo shows, if they make a movie out of my material, I will be played by Meg Ryan. Oh, man,

Jeff Dwoskin 28:42

that's funny, all right, other than Seinfeld in the current pen 15 or Thelma, if I just throw out a few, like Brooklyn nine, nine, that's one of my favorite sitcoms ever. You guessed it on that

Annie Korzen 28:52

I'm topless in that one. Also nice people. You

Jeff Dwoskin 28:57

were in Hannah, Montana. Er, I mean, you were in some bit. You've been in a lot of the big ones throughout the years, and I've

Annie Korzen 29:06

been lucky for the most part, they've been good experiences. People were nice, and I was treated well. Talk

Jeff Dwoskin 29:12

to me about the moth because that's a big kind of story. Turn in your book where you you rejected and rejected, and then finally they they invited you in full, full, open arms.

Annie Korzen 29:24

Well, again, like my thing before, if you want to do something, you have to keep doing it. And I wanted to be a storyteller, and I wanted to be with a moth. Every time I performed, I would send them a video of my new story, and I wouldn't get they would sometimes say, thanks for submitting. Keep submitting. We, you know, but they no one committed to me. It was a dream of mine to be with them. I kept getting nowhere with them. I just kept saying and I knew I was good as I knew I know that I'm a really good storyteller, and I could not get any response from them. So finally, I was so upset about. I wanted it so badly that I sent them a story, and I said to my husband, that's it. I give up. I can't take this rejection anymore. It's too painful. And literally, the next day, the head of the mall called from New York, Annie, we'd like you to be on Main Stage St Louis, Berkeley, la Shubert Theater in Boston. On the radio program. It was everything that I had dreamed about and then, and now, I'm very friendly with them. They're going to actually put another story of mine on the radio soon. But when I said to them, finally, I said, What took you so long? It took nine years, nine years of being rejected. What took you so long to book me? Oh, you got better. And the fact is, if you do what you do, you do get better. I'm much more skilled storyteller now than I was when I started out, or even four or five years after I started out, because you learn by doing and you learn by failing. I think too many people now are afraid to fail. We don't let our kids fail. Everything gets a reward. Everything gets a gold star. I think failure is not always the worst thing. It may feel like it at the moment. No,

Jeff Dwoskin 31:07

I agree with you 100% I always joke. I go, Hey, if you listen to my podcast backwards, you're going to be like, Why is it getting worse?

Annie Korzen 31:15

Oh, okay, I like that. That's a good one. I may steal it from you.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:20

Tag me on tick tock. It will be even

Annie Korzen 31:23

I think, then again, if you keep doing what you do that, hopefully, eventually you will be discovered in some way. Now maybe there are, there are tragedy in the world. There's a lot of great talent that never gets discovered. I don't know what to say about that. I don't believe that every story has a happy ending. You know,

Jeff Dwoskin 31:42

no, I agree with you 100% Well, interestingly, as I, as I was diving into your career, like in addition to the Tiktok, which I'll say, is you embracing taking control of everything and taking advantage of all the things that maybe Hollywood didn't love, but the world obviously, is embracing wholeheartedly. But you've had a you've done solo shows throughout the years as well. So you definitely have a history of kind of taking the bull by the horns and doing your own thing, and not just sitting around waiting for someone to hand you something.

Annie Korzen 32:17

You have to do that. I think all creative people have to do that. You can't sit by the phone wait for someone to give you a job. And you see that with a lot of young people. I'm very impressed now, like those kids on pit 15, they just got together. They were NYU students. They got together and started putting something up on the web, and a lot of shows. Also, what's her name? You know, the very good show Abbott elementary that people are just being creative and getting their work out there. Nowadays, you can do a lot with a phone. You can make a movie with a phone, right, right? And a lot of young people do, and I think that's admirable, that get together all actors, no writers, all writers, know directors, get together in a group and create something. Why not? Instead of waiting for it to

Jeff Dwoskin 32:58

be Yeah, we live in a we live in an amazing age where there's so much potential opportunity that you can tap into, that is

Annie Korzen 33:05

true. That really is true. And also the thing I think that a lot of creative people forget is generally, if you're creative in one area, chances are you're creative in another as well. I was an actor, and my husband, my husband and somebody else said, you know, you really should write. And I had done some. I started out doing improvisational comedy in New York a street theater company, and I thought, well, when you do improv, you're really writing. You're writing on your feet. I just never thought of it that way. I thought, well, I'm going to write down some of my, you know, my improvised thoughts. But my husband also says I did solo shows because I wanted to make sure I was mentioned to the reviews. That's true. I'm always the bit player I never mentioned. So here they can't avoid me, right? Written, performed, composed and starring. Total ego trip.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:55

What goes into creating a solo show yet unplugged? Yeah, that was your first one. Right

Annie Korzen 34:00

now that I look back and I don't want to say I regret it, but I'd much rather do what I'm doing now, storytelling. It's a very creating a solo show. It's a huge amount of work. And I have an actor friend who says out here, who says, My big fear in life is that a friend of mine is going to invite me to see his solo show. Because every actor thinks they can do it. Every actor thinks they have a story to tell, and for the most part, they don't. So it's not something I would encourage people to do. I'd rather encourage them to get together with their creative friends and do what we were talking about before. Create a show, create a movie, create a podcast, create a you know what I mean, solo shows, or it's a tough road, and one of the things you really have to do is be a member of a theater company. I was, I was a member of a theater company. That's how I got it produced. If you're on your own and you're not a member of a company, to get it produced, to get it mounted, to get it reviewed, not easy. I don't recommend it to anybody, all right. Right?

Jeff Dwoskin 35:00

Everyone. Annie does not recommend a solo show. On the

Annie Korzen 35:04

other hand, there's stand up, you know, people who, I mean, you can always go to an open mic night. You can always put together. I mean, that's another way of being a solo performer, right,

Jeff Dwoskin 35:13

right? Yeah, for sure, I did stand up for 20 years. Did you really? I did. I loved it.

Annie Korzen 35:20

I have a lot of friends. I have friends that are stand ups. I'll tell you a great story, actually, about Jerry Seinfeld. I don't know if I have it in the book. I have a friend, Monica Piper. It's very funny. I love

Jeff Dwoskin 35:30

Monica Piper. You know Monica? I had her in my show. Oh, really. Okay,

Annie Korzen 35:34

well, she and I are members of the same theater company. Actually, years ago, she told me that years ago, she was in San Francisco. She was on the same bill as Jerry Seinfeld. And it was a young kid, a newbie, who was doing stand up for the first time that night. And after the show, Jerry who, as I said, he's a nice guy, he congratulated the kid. He said, Hey, good job. Whatever. And the kid says, Oh, Mr. Seinfeld, could you please introduce me to the Booker of The Tonight Show. And Jerry said, No, I can't, but I will do something for you. And he takes a pencil out of his pocket or a pen and hands it to the kid and says, Use this every day for four hours for the next two years. Then contact me. And I thought that's a profound story about what it takes to be an artist, a solo performer. Stand up anything, take out that pen and use it, work on yourself and your material for four hours every day. That's a great story. Don't you like that? How we all know about him and his work discipline, how he writes and works and polishes, and that's

Jeff Dwoskin 36:40

the problem. While you found fame after many decades with Tiktok, a lot of there's a lot of the opposite, where somebody with that amount of time in the comedian that went up to Jerry and asked to be booked on The Tonight Show and can become famous in 15 minutes on Tiktok, and doesn't have the discipline or the years to be able to apply to the craft. One of the pieces of your success is you have so much knowledge that you're also applying.

Annie Korzen 37:10

I know what. I appreciate that. And it's not just knowledge. It's also life experience. If I talk in the book about marriage or dating or being a mother or motherhood, I mean, I've been through a lot, and I've learned. I've had some terrible mistakes. I had the world's worst postpartum depression. I was hospitalized for four months after my baby was born unnecessarily, and now I consider myself to be the world's best mother. But because I've gone through all those things, younger people can benefit. They can benefit from, from my tragedies, from my mistakes. In

Jeff Dwoskin 37:44

addition to Tiktok, is that one of the reasons then you wrote the book to share these stories, and the wisdom

Annie Korzen 37:50

I share my stories, and the Tiktok thing was what allowed me to find, find a publisher, you know, because they figured I had a platform, I had an audience. But what I do in the book. The book is really a collection of humorous essays, some personal about me, some observations about others life. But in a way, it's still storytelling. Is still what I do on Tiktok, but expanded the stories. All you know Tiktok, you only have when I started. You only had 60 seconds. Now you can do more, but I still only do about a minute, because people these days have no attention spans.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:24

Brevity is the key. I agree with that. But in the book, I

Annie Korzen 38:28

can take a one minute tick tock thing and turn it into the 12 minute piece that it really was meant to be.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:34

So how much time do you spend on the tick tock, making the videos and like, how much of it? That is less now

Annie Korzen 38:41

I made a mistake. I for a long time, I was posting twice a day. To me is that I had to come up with 14 things a week. Now I don't, I've been told I don't need to do that. So I do, you know, I shoot maybe once or twice a week, and I post six, maybe five or six times a week, my numbers have gone way up, and that's the important thing. On Tick, tock your your numbers. And you know what? Like everything else, it is not an exact science. I put something up a couple of weeks ago because I had no more material, and I had run into this sweet kid, a young a young kid, a 14 year old fan. I believe he's Korean. I'm just talked and I thought, no one's going to be interested in this, or him or me, but I had no other material. I stuck it on there. It has now something like half a million views. Don't ask me why. I cannot explain it. I cannot explain I mean, he's sweet. It's a sweet conversation. But there's nothing that I thought Ursa, I don't know why it would have appealed to that many people. I can't explain it. I don't know if you saw that one.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:47

I didn't see that one, but I can't wait to go find it, but it's relatively recent. I don't get it. That's, you know, it baffles me. Like, you know, something will do great on YouTube, but not on Tiktok or, you know, I mean, like. Different audiences, things blow up. You never know. You never

Annie Korzen 40:03

it is not rocket science. It is not an exact science. So again, like I said, before you do your work, you put it all out there. What is the expression? Is there something about casting you something? Is that what it means to cast your stones upon the water, or something? What does that expression mean? I

Jeff Dwoskin 40:18

don't know. I think there's something

Annie Korzen 40:21

about you just put it out there, not knowing what the results are going to be, right? Casting

Jeff Dwoskin 40:27

stones upon water create a ripple effect by taking an action that has wider implications, even if it seems small or insignificant.

Annie Korzen 40:37

Oh, okay, that's it. We're going to cast, I like the language. We're going to cast our stones upon war and just see if there'll be a ripple effect. I like that a lot. I

Jeff Dwoskin 40:49

love it. Annie, you're so fun to talk to. I'm so happy that we connected, really,

Annie Korzen 40:55

you think so ask my husband, see if he agrees with you. He may not. Or can we remind them about the book? You know, Emma, yeah, I'm an aggressive

Jeff Dwoskin 41:06

All right, let's Annie wrote an amazing book. They

Annie Korzen 41:10

can get it at Amazon, Barnes and Noble. It's the book of Annie, humor, heart and chutzpah, from an accidental influencer. I made a big mistake with the title. When I called it the book of Annie, if you look up the book of Annie, it brings us to the show Annie. So I made a big mistake. So you're better off if you look for Annie Korzen, if you look for my name on Amazon, but at this time, you'll find it the book of Annie Humur Chutzpah, but from an accidental influence, or blah, blah, blah. I also recorded the audio version.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:41

I would hope so. That's awesome.

Annie Korzen 41:43

They asked me to audition. Hello, we're looking for

Jeff Dwoskin 41:46

an Annie corzen type. What

Annie Korzen 41:50

are you going to get to the book of Eddie

Jeff Dwoskin 41:52

Helen, Mirren. Meg, Ryan.

Annie Korzen 41:55

Meg, Ryan, right, right.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:59

You believe it. I'll put, when I put the show notes, I will put, of course, a link directly to both your Tiktok and the book to

Annie Korzen 42:07

Amazon. Oh, that would be great. Oh, thank you so much. Of

Jeff Dwoskin 42:11

course, my pleasure. I like you, Jeff, I like you. Annie. This was fun.

Annie Korzen 42:16

Oh, we're done. Well, okay, thank you so much, Jeff. I really appreciate this.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:21

All right. How amazing was Annie. I know, right. Listen, as I'm recording this, the future of Tiktok is in the balance, so definitely go look her up on Tiktok right away. Get as much in as possible and follow her. Still check it out. There'll be some time before the ban, if it officially takes place, but definitely run over there and do it. The link is in the show notes. Take in some of the wisdom of Annie Korzen on Tiktok. I'm sure she'll move to another platform if something happens to Tiktok. But in the meantime, head on over there. Check out Annie's book. It's a great book. Loved it, full of great stories, as evident from the interview, a great storyteller. Maybe even check out the audio version. I didn't check that version out, but that's I bet that's amazing. Anyway, check out Annie Korzen, she's amazing. Thank you to Annie once again for hanging out with me. Thanks to all of you for coming back week after week. Means the world to me, and I'll see you next time. Oh, and sorry about if my voice in the intro and this outro, it's a little weird. Just got over COVID and trying not to cough. Have a great one. I'll see you next time.

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