#329 Classic TV Tales with Larry Mathews Ritchie Petrie from Dick Van Dyke Show

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Laura, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 329 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be one of the classic guest episodes of all time. My guest today is none other than Larry Mathews. You love them as Ritchie Petrie on The Dick Van Dyke Show. And he is here to tell story after story after story and that is coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds. Last week, Bill Scheft was here Late Night with David Letterman legend. He shared stories of Marty short, Bill Hicks and so much more. Do not miss that incredible conversation. But right now, do not miss my deep dive into the Dick Van Dyke Show with Larry Mathews, Ritchie Petrie himself. Can you believe it? I can't believe it. We're talking Mary Tyler Moore. We're jogging. Dick Van Dyke, we're jogging. Rose Marie, we're talking Carl Reiner. Those stories never add. Well, eventually, the episode ends but you know what I mean? All right. Get ready for Larry Mathews right now. All right, everyone. I'm excited to introduce my next guest. One of TV's favorites. That calm kids, Ritchie Petrie from The Dick Van Dyke Show. Put your hands together for Larry Mathews. Jeff. Hey, man,

Larry Mathews 2:02

how you doing?

Jeff Dwoskin 2:03

I am great.

Larry Mathews 2:04

How are you? I'm just wonderful. And thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. And we're gonna have a little fun and talk about a bunch of cool stuff today. Whatever you want. Awesome.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:13

I will say I mean, I think I don't know that anyone doesn't love The Dick Van Dyke Show. It was on a little before I was born. But because I knew we were talking on to be I just started watching episode after episode. And I'm sure over the years I've seen episodes and clips. Definitely. And I mean, like, but holy cow is this show is solid watching it right now, as I can imagine. It's I mean, it's It's impressive how good it is. You

Larry Mathews 2:41

know, it's funny because being on it when I was a child, and watching when I was a child, I would watch obviously my scenes and performances stuff, but watching reruns and growing and growing and growing and going back and watching them over and over again. It never gets tiresome. I always laugh at things that I didn't understand when I was younger, because now I'm like, oh my god, that was really funny, right? And the episodes are timely or timeless, I should say. Because Carl made a point not to do any shows on current subjects or current political events or you know, anything that would date the show because he's such a genius and he wanted it to be able to run forever. So he wanted the all the subjects to be forever. In other words, poignant for everybody over over all times and all families.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:25

He definitely succeeded. I want to dive in and I want to hear every story ever about the Dick Van Dyke Show, we got 15 hours together and we see there you just said it already. But first mutual friend, Marsha Posner Williams introduced us and you also after being a renowned child actor, you worked on soap and Benson talk to me about that. Soap is like one of those obsessive sitcoms like just with the controversy and and Benson so great. I was

Larry Mathews 3:53

fortunate enough. When I got out of school, I went to UCLA. And when I when I got out of school, I went to work for Danny Thomas productions, which was Danny was one of our executive producers on the dick VanDyke show and, and a guy named Ronald Jacobs, who also was associate producer. Anyway, that kind of leapfrog me into an introduction with Tony Thomas and going to work for with Thomas Harris in those years was soap and Benson on the air, an amazing experience a great show. One of the things I'm very proud of being able to be part of groundbreaking in so many ways soap was controversial almost never made it on the air because it was so controversial with the characters they had. And I'm sure Marcia has talked about this with you as well, and the whole rigmarole that we went through to basically just make sure it aired such a great cast. I mean, again, you talk about cast at work together so seamlessly. And so the chemistry was so perfect with all of them. And again, like we said about the defendants earlier, I watched soap episodes that I seen over and over again and I just can't stop laughing. It was such a great show so well written so well can see And again, I'm very Quinjet for the time that it was on.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:04

We did what did you do when you were at? So I managed

Larry Mathews 5:07

post production for several other shows there. So So Benson, a couple years after we had a show called it's a living on and then when soap got cancelled, I left what Thomas and went on to do like the rest of my career, which has been mostly all behind the scenes. And I like to think fairly successful because I had a pretty good career. So yeah, that's

Jeff Dwoskin 5:26

awesome. You're one of the child stars from that era that I don't want to say survive like, but I mean, there's no stories about you. Is there? They said I didn't take well,

Larry Mathews 5:36

not not that I've left out but anyway, that's no, no, I mean, listen, I'm I loved my time as a child star, I was really proud of it. I'm very lucky I was blessed to be to be given that opportunity. I work with some of the greatest people in our in our business ever, ever, ever and ever will be icons, amazing. Carl Reiner. Deck, Mary, Sheldon Leonard, Morey, Amsterdam, rosemary, I think it just goes on and on our whole cast and crew was just amazing. And, but I'm also one of seven children. So I was raised in a Catholic, you know, Italian, Sicilian Catholic family. So we were just the perspective was kept very much by my parent, my parents, in terms of this is not a big, you know, this is nothing your nose, you're nobody's special, which was kind of nice. You're doing a good job, you're having a good time. And this is what we do. And when it's done, it's done. And we move on with life. So kind of, you know, comes from that background with the family and I and I'm really appreciative of that, because it did give me the opportunity to go on and like I said, just have a really successful career in post production, production, post production sales and kind of bring that to, to my work. So I wasn't really, you know, I wasn't one of those crazy kids that, you know, had to go out and do crazy stuff, although I did, but I got over it. It's okay.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:50

Everyone does. I think all kids do kid stuff. But, you know, like, there's no like crazy stories released of rights, or this or that. I mean, so Larry, when the Dick Van Dyke Show ended after five years, did you want to continue acting? Was that something you wanted to do? Or was it like a weird, like, what was it what was it like when that was over? Back then I feel mmm, just my perception of back then was typecasting was like, like a thing. When someone saw you as this character, you were that character for a long

Larry Mathews 7:23

time. It's funny, you say that. And I'll give you a couple insights as we go through. So you know, the dick VanDyke show was my second family. Basically, because I grew up, I was five, little over five, when we started, I was almost 11. And we finished. And as I say to people, I went from age five to 15, and five years, because I worked with adults all the time. So you learn amazing, you're just you're learning is incredible. And you just absorb so much of that adult world. So when it was over, it was kind of a mixed feeling back to what you're asking. I was, I was sad. I was very sad, because I realized that I wasn't going to be with these people that I grown up with every day. And that made me very sad. And I was going to miss them. I also was okay, going and just being part of like, regular, whatever kids do, you know, going back to school, doing out sports when I could and just hanging out with the guys and my brothers. And so I was okay with that. So it was kind of a mixed feeling. I was sad, but I wasn't on, you know, horribly disturbed by it. But then as the years kind of went through, I mean, I was a theater arts major. And I did a lot of theater, you know, after the Dick Van Dyck show volunteer theater, some, you know, play houses down on Melrose, in LA, in Hollywood, and productions in school and high school in college and cetera, et cetera. So I tried to keep my part in, you know, as much as I could, but still give myself that opportunity to just live a regular kind of normal life, if you will,

Jeff Dwoskin 8:46

what was it like going back to school after being on such a huge, huge sitcom, and entering civilian life again, if you will,

Larry Mathews 8:55

it was horrible. So I skipped a grade when I was on The Dick Van Dyke Show, so I went from first to third grade because you're with a tutor one on one. So you'll learn very quickly. And again, as I said, I'm around adults. So I learned very quickly and was and so when I went back to my grade school, which was an eight year you know, first to eighth grade, I was a year younger than all the rest of the kids and in our terms now as adults a year doesn't mean anything but as kids it means the world when you think about it, everything so it was very it was tough. They were you know, it was very I don't know Jealous is the right word, but very you know who you think you're better than everybody you're not and kind of like very much wanted to pick on the child star that would you know, wasn't there six months of the year and was there the last two and a half or eight or whatever it was that I ended up being in school those last two months, and then the last couple of years, so I didn't really have a great experience in my grade school. I have outside that it kind of like show, but conversely, when I went to high school, and I went to high school in Sherman Oaks, it was great. It was the greatest experience. I loved my high school because they didn't look at me as the spoiled brat kid. And who just came in when he wanted to and like, oh, you get special treatment bla bla bla bla bla, and just the kind of bullying and all that stuff that happened with your kids. They looked at me as like the brother of my two older brothers who was there and a really cool kid because hey, you want a great shield addict, Van Dyke Show, and they embrace me and I loved my high school. So kind of a, you know, a dichotomy there where, you know, one was not great, the other was really great. So, you know, that's kind of how I progressed and then on to college after that. So

Jeff Dwoskin 10:25

in college, probably the same thing, right, just same thing, but I

Larry Mathews 10:29

got into a fraternity and it was cool when we were more just I just wanted to go you know, smoke weed and drink and do drugs and shit when I was in college, because it's what every college kid does kind of tie it back in the 70s.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:40

Breaking news right now, Richie. Okay, yeah, kids can be I mean, schools rough as it is, did you have a crew though? The Pro Larry crew, like pretty high school and middle school, like, they could recognize the coolness that you were on TV? Yeah,

Larry Mathews 10:58

there was there was a handful of guys, there was probably four or five guys that, you know, I kind of hung with. And we're pretty cool, close. And they thought it was cool. And they were really happy to just be friends. And it wasn't even so much about being a Dick Van Dyke Show, I think it was just me and they were just happy to have a friend. And because I'm a genuine person, I like to believe I am. And I didn't really make a big deal out of being a dick fan. Dykstra to me was like kind of over and done. As I told you with my family, my dad said don't, you know, be humble all your life, you know, don't be like arrogant about anything. And so I think that kind of led to some really good friendships and the fact that I was on the defense, it was just kind of another cool thing, but it was just a little part of everything else that was going on. Well,

Jeff Dwoskin 11:36

let's let's go back in time, so I read stories about your mailman. Oh, wait, let that sit for a second. Now. The setup to this story sounds a lot more salacious. And

Larry Mathews 11:48

well, one of my brothers doesn't look like the rest of us. So you just figure that out. Okay. I'll just leave your mailman helped discover you. Yeah. So basically, again, in Burbank where I grew up, and he was our mail guy, and I was the one that I would like, watch TV. I mean, I remember I have memories back till I was when I was three years old, just like mimicking television and the chipmunks and trying to be out there and be just this, you know, obnoxious, you know, always on the spotlight kid, right? So the mailman kind of recognized that and said to my mother, look, I know a woman who gives lessons to child acting lessons, right? And you know, if you want I can set you up with her. So he did. My mom asked me I remember when she said, you know, are you want to go to this? And I was like, Sure, and I can pretend I'm somebody else. And I love that. And so let's do it. Right. And, and I did and took lessons for her for a while. And then they would have showcases where they would invite agents. And we would do scenes, you know, like I did a scene from 1000 clowns, which is a famous play. And the agent said, you know, we'd love to represent Larry. And so we signed that deal up. And they did and I got sent on the interview with Carl Reiner. And the rest, as they say is history. I was in the right place at the right time and came down to me and one other kid that they were considering couple funny stories with that. And in the end, Carl went with me. He wanted somebody who'd never really done anything. So he was leaning toward me. And then there's a cool story about our director, Jay Sanders, who directed so just so funny because I reunited with him later, but Jay Sanders was the assistant director on make room for daddy or the Danny Thomas show. And Daddy was our executive producer. And they were in the room with my picture and this other kids picture on the table one time and Jay SandRidge came in when they were trying to decide which one to pick for Richie, and Jay Sanders came in Jay told me the story when we were doing soap actually, I just love this. He was talking to Danny about something on that show last week, and he was getting ready to leave. And I said, Wait, wait, wait, Jake, come back. Come back, Danny Says says which one of these kids should be the kid of the son for Dick Van Dyke on this new pilot. We're doing the defending Shawn Jay just went that one and pointed at my picture just out of the blue. And Carl goes. That's what I was thinking. I'm glad you didn't. And that's kind of what happens. So it's kind of cool. That

Jeff Dwoskin 13:55

is really, really, really, really cool. I read. I was reading a book, Ruth Burch said you had said you had it sewn up after the first audition regardless of how it turned out. Everyone I think well everyone loved your adorableness and your cute little guy, your guy see where there was this quote that Reiner felt Larry's utter lack of pronounces word precocity proprietor Prasad, er II COC it why precocious a precocious precocity. Wait a minute they thanked advantage in the running for the role. They loved you. They just loved you. Did it also help you that you were an unknown?

Larry Mathews 14:31

Yeah, I think so. I think that it's interesting to hear those things with Ruth who I love to death Ruth was a very wonderful person. And of course Carl, as I said, who was leaning toward me anyway, and then Jay just kind of put that little exclamation point on it. But yeah, I think it did help that I was an unknown and I think that Carl love that because he wanted somebody that they could just let become Richie basically, and work with Dick and Mary and grow that character into being their their son. And I think if you watch the show I watch him now, like, we were talking earlier. I'm, I was very critical of my performance as I grew through the years, you know, I'm like, oh, man, you know. And that was I watch them back and I kind of take a step back and look, and I go, like, you know, do you believe I was their son? I mean, it was it was a you know, it was a good fit with the three of us, I think, and I did some pretty cool stuff on that show. I was pretty, I was pretty proud of what happened and how it all came up. I

Jeff Dwoskin 15:26

agree the family dynamic, even the work dynamic. And like every, every dynamic that's displayed on that show, you know, when they fantex at work with Rose and Moray, like all of them feel like there's yours beyond what you're seeing in the show. So okay, so this is when you change your name from there a mod sale. Mathews did I nail it? Did I get it? Right? You did? You

Larry Mathews 15:50

did? That's absolutely correct. Yep. Yeah, they it was one of those things they want to do look back in the 60s, you know, ethnicity wasn't in, you know what I mean? I want to go back for a second to something we were talking about. And then we'll get back to this, if you don't mind. The dynamics in the office with Morion, Rosie and Dec. And you hit it on the head. It's like watching it, you would think that they'd worked together forever and ever. And they it was just again, the chemistry was so incredible. And Carl, John Rich, Jerry Paris, who directed a bunch who also played our neighbor, they would let those guys just go off and do ad libs during scene. Sometimes they would just let them go, the more you would come up with something Rosie might say something, and they go just run with it, man run with it. It was scripted, yes. But there was a lot of little quick back and forth jokes, things like that. We're just kind of them coming up with things because they work together. So well. I think that also made it a timeless, amazing show. Because the dynamics were so amazing between the people who

Jeff Dwoskin 16:44

said something they call Reiner encouraged, like, here's he because he wrote them, right. So you have to you have to kind of assume that someone of his comedic ilk to write something, and then feel comfortable with people then taking that beyond and making it around kind of bringing it to life in their own way.

Larry Mathews 17:02

Absolutely. So call wrote all the episodes for the first season. And then as he watched the, you know, the whole cast grow and get together in chemistry, including and especially Mary, who had never really done any comedy before, right. This was her first kind of thing. But she was brilliant at it. And Carl saw that within the first half a year episodes. And so then he started writing a little more for her, encourage her to do more. And of course, Maureen rose, we were always that way. And Dick. And so yes, Carl being the genius and I say genius in just, I don't know if there's any words that can describe how amazing this man was to me in my life. And we can talk about that later if you want. But for him to be able to see that, understand it, and basically go with it and let that become very partisan. very serendipitous. You know what I mean, in terms of just letting the show flow itself was amazing. And Carlos was like that, and I can't say enough about him. I

Jeff Dwoskin 18:00

did have one question. And keep in mind, feel free to smack down any of these side notes that I come up with because I don't you could only if I read something on the internet, you're my truth detector now.

Larry Mathews 18:09

No problem.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:10

So when they started writing more for Mary Tyler Moore did that cause problems between Mary Tyler Moore and Rose Marie,

Larry Mathews 18:16

that is a true statement. And Rosemary admitted it. So the way it all kind of came down history. I'm sure most people listening the show know this. But just to reiterate, so the Dick Van Dyke Show was originally the pilot for what became the dick VanDyke show was originally a show called head of the family which Carl Reiner started. And he made it with different cast. And it didn't sell to CBS, Sheldon Leonard happened to see it and went to Carl and said, You know, I think this is a great idea and can be an amazing show. But you're not the guy to do it. I'm sorry. You're just not him. Would you allow me to recast this and do another pilot with a new cast? And Carl said of course I would. So they were both at Bye Bye Birdie in in Broadway, they went to see Dick Van Dyke and they saw him and immediately they just went that's our guy. So Dick was the first guy cast. Then Rosemarie was the second person cast. Maury was after that, because Rosemarie said, Look, if you need another writer, talk to Maury, they're, you know, they've been friends and they work together for years and years. I was the next person be cast, believe it or not before Mary. And then Mary was the last person to be cast, because Carl just didn't find anybody. He just felt that was right until he interviewed her and he said the spark went off like that. He grabbed her by the head, which you'd be sued for now, but anyway, he said and walked her into Sheldon and Danny said This is Laura Petri. I found our Laura Petri. She's perfect that you know, just there was again, Karina just so brilliant that he found that. So yes, Rosemary was, you know, going to be one of the big main characters in it. And as they started kind of writing a little more for Mary. There was some jealousy. There was no question and again, Rosie admits that she said it in her book. She said it on several occasions. And you never really saw it on the set, because they were so both such consummate professionals that it never came out on screen ever. But behind the scenes, there was something happening. And then finally, in the last season or so, Rosemarie kind of understood and just kind of the two of them kind of got together and just said, Look this, you know, let's just stop. We don't need to be this way. Because it's we're all having a great time doing great. It's a great cast and cetera, et cetera. So

Jeff Dwoskin 20:18

interesting. Mary Tyler Moore was great. And I mean, they were all great. But like for that, for them, having doubts or her not having done hamady, and just watching it, it's like, it's hard to believe she didn't walk into that as a natural,

Larry Mathews 20:32

isn't it? I agree. She was just so great. Her timing was just unbelievable for somebody that had never done him. She just she just got again, this speaks to what a professional and what a talent Mary really was. She's just she might have been of all of us, the best actor, actor, you know, what I mean, in terms of just tick was kind of being himself, you know, I mean, that was Dick. I was being myself. Maureen rose were kind of that whole, you know, that old back and forth banter between them, which they'd done before, but it just came down through them. But Mary worked at it and was really amazing. Totally

Jeff Dwoskin 21:06

so, so a lot of Ricci is you. Yeah,

Larry Mathews 21:11

I think so. Yeah. I think a lot of it is absolutely. What we're seeing

Jeff Dwoskin 21:15

on the show is what your mailman saw going up and down straight. Like this is your you were just that kind of whip smart whip funny. Kind of outgoing, gregarious?

Larry Mathews 21:27

Yep. I mean, I think so. You know, I mean, you know, like I said, I try and be as humble as I can about it. But yes, I believe that that was and I just was, you know, and the thing was, I had such great direction, you know, with Carl and John Rich and Dick and Maury. I mean, Dick and Mary, I should say, and Maury tube, and rose because rosemary and I were very, very close, all tucked up to her death. We were very close. But Mary, on set, you know, she would like, we'd be rehearsing and she would say, you know, she would give me little hints and advisable. And does she do this and do this and this, John Rich, who was our director for the first season is great, man. Same thing. Well, Larry, you know, and they just, once they gave me a lot of direction, it was kind of easy for me to follow that direction, just and just slide into what the character was supposed to be. Did

Jeff Dwoskin 22:10

you just love every second being a kid on that set?

Larry Mathews 22:14

I did. Absolutely. It was such a special time in so many ways. And yeah, what

Jeff Dwoskin 22:20

other TV Kids were, it was on Desi Lu studios, right? What other what other like kids TV Kids were around, hanging out at the soda shop. Between? Well,

Larry Mathews 22:32

it's, it's interesting. We were on the Desi Lou Kawhia lot. So there were two desu lots there was one which is now the Paramount lot on Melrose and I gotta remember vide, I think and then there was our lot which is on kalangan will be over and it just not far from there. And they had the two lots so on our lot at the same time we were filming when we first started doing Van Dyke Show make room for daddy, the Danny Thomas show was right next to us. So Angela car right and rusty hammer were there. So I would go see Angela quite a bit rusty was kind of a little bit to himself. You know, I mean, I knew him but it wasn't like we didn't but Angela and I would kind of do things and you know, just kind of hanging out sometimes. And then down the lot was Andy Griffith. So Ron Howard was there. And Ron Howard and I grew up in Burbank together and actually played a little league together. We were kids. So Ron was there so I would see them and then farther down a lot. There was there wasn't a lot of other kid actors, but the joy Bishop show was being done. I spy was being shot on our lot. So actually, Bill Cosby and Robert Cole taught me how to throw a football when I was a kid. And so that's kind of interesting. Enjoy Bishop. And then when Danny Thomas show moved, stopped, and Gomer Pile moved in next to us. So I became pretty new pretty well, Frank Sutton and Ronnie shell, who is just the most wonderful man in the world. And Jim Nabors also just a wonderful, wonderful man. So I was around a lot of that, for the kids side of it. I didn't really see a lot of kids except when we would do events or things where they would bring the CBS kids together for some kind of photo thing or some kind of, you know, a promotional thing or something like that. But I met most of the kids over the time, you know, standard very Livingston, you know, I met and, you know, now of course, Stan's a good friend berries, a good friend, John Provost from Lassie, a very, very dear dear friend of ours and great man to me. Yeah, to me in the well, which Patrick and you know, and it goes on kids from that era. The Myrtle hills and you know, Donna Douglas, I knew pretty well. She was really cool. And Max Baer Jr. Of course, you know, just as you know, not kids, but still in that same timeframe of the CBS era where we were on so Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 24:39

almost all your friends have been on my podcast, so now. I'm so glad that you're here.

Larry Mathews 24:44

That's cool. I like that.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:45

I love talking to Timmy his wife's awesome also, always

Larry Mathews 24:48

the sweetheart I love her to death. We're actually we have a little adventure adventure going together between John and myself. I'm helping them with a business John's doing.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:59

Sorry to interrupt. But John VELENA Well, Larry had to go help him out. It was a whole thing. Anyway, I do want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors, you're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back with Larry Mathews, we're gonna dive into his relationship with Carl Reiner, talk to me about Carl Reiner and his importance in your life.

Larry Mathews 25:21

I mean, there's not enough, you know, you talked about we have 15 hours. I mean, I could spend 15 years and never say enough about Carl Reiner honestly, he just from everything, you know, his his creativity, his comic genius, his acting genius, his producing gene. I mean, you know, writing he's this is probably the greatest man, really, that I ever had the pleasure to work with in my life, honestly. And the kind of guy that if Carl met it, let's say Carl, and you had Carl and Carl said, Jeff, I'm gonna be on your show. You might not see him for 10 years. And when you see him again he go Hey, Jeff, how are you? You know, I mean, he was just that's Carl so genuine so amazingly perceptive. Just and I might not see call for 5456 years and every time Hey, kid, hey, Larry. How you doing big hug kiss on the head, you know, and just just just the most amazing man and actually a great thing. What when we did the Dick Van Dyke revisited show, which was the are in 2004 We did that which was car always wanted to do another Dick VanDyke thing, but he didn't want to do as the regular old reunion clip kind of show. You know what I mean? That wasn't in he wasn't. So he wrote a script of the Dick Van Dyke Show 40 something years later, right, where dick and Mary had moved into the city. And Richie was now in the house in New Rochelle. And Alan Brady wanted to hire Rob and Sally because more he was dead by that time to write his obituary eulogy, so he could approve it before he died. So nobody said anything bad about him after he was dead. And it's perfect. Alan Brady, when you think about it, right, right. So the beginning of it was me going into the living room with the Petrie living room and picking up the phone and doing a phone conversation with Alan Brady. And we kind of got an error. We still we read through the script a couple of times, and then we we started to rehearse it. And Carl I remember we did one rehearsal and Carl, he just kind of had this look on his face. And he's like, you know, and I, and he was kind of trying to think I think of something I said, I said, Carl, I said tell me what Richie tell me what tell me where you want me to go with what's Richie what's his, you know, what's he what's going on with Richie? What's going on with Alan Brady, you know this and that and tell me where you want where Richie is right now? And he said well, and he gave me his direction. He said, Well, you know, look, you know Ritchie's done. He doesn't, you know, Alan Brady made his life's dad's life miserable as far as he concerned. You know, F Allen Brady, you know, it's like Richie, you know, I mean, and he gave me the direction. I said, Okay, we ran the scene. And he just stopped. And he looked at me and went, that's perfect. No one knows. No, no, that was perfect. He said. So after we did the scene, and we shot it, and we were doing rehearsals on camera, because we shot it with our audience. He came up to me, he said, you know, he says, What do you been doing all these years? He goes, You're so good. He goes at what the scene is thing. And I it's a very short scene. And I said, why was he just if I would have known, I would have wrote maybe more, he says, but I you know, I didn't put You're so good. He goes, What have you been doing? I mean, I said, Well, Carl, you know, I've done sales, you know, 30 something years on, I act every day, I'm in sales, right? And he kind of lives in No, no, I know that. But I mean, really, if you've done any acting, I said, No. Just little things here and there some theater and background voice stuff. And he goes, Man, he goes, I guess I knew what I was doing when I cast you, because that was really good. He said, So that's Carl. You know, I mean, for me, that was just one of the most special moments of my life. That's

Jeff Dwoskin 28:43

incredible. I don't remember seeing it. But I did watch somebody put together a 15 minute version of the 2004 reunion. Where you only in the beginning, then are you not? Yeah, okay. Yeah,

Larry Mathews 28:54

I was in a very opening scene.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:55

So did you not get to hang with all the rest of the cast that? Absolutely,

Larry Mathews 29:00

we shot it. And one of the one of the provisions in my deal to do the show was I put in that my, the company I was working with at the time was the post production facility, we're guaranteed to do the post production on this special. So not only did I hang with him, but I was asked often as a consulting of, you know, for the post production, like, well, we want to shoot this is this going to work? And I'm like, Well, yeah, but it's gonna be easier if you do it this way. Because we can cut it better that way. And so it was kind of a really cool cross between my acting in my professional career so we could contribute, which is really, which was really kind of very cool. Actually.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:36

It is awesome. Gotta be like a weird emotional thing, right? I mean, because some of the folks have passed away it's been a while so there's, there's happy memories or sad man. I mean, it's just like, because I imagine a lot of these folks you hadn't seen in a while? Yes,

Larry Mathews 29:52

it is. There are there are very happy and very sad things about it. Yes. I miss a lot of the people you know Dick and I are the only cast members alive now still, Dick just turned 98. in December. As I said earlier, rosemary and I were very close, our families were very close. We were like family, the Italian connection plus I just it was she was always like, my aunt, you know, growing up, that's how she was. To me. It was like, we were a family. And that was, so I miss her. Mary, and I didn't talk often. But when we did see each other, we were always it was always she was always interested in what I was doing, and when asked me and how it was and, and into that, and of course, then Carl shell minored, Danny Thomas, who I worked with, after, who was just a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful man and Sheldon, who I can't say enough wonderful things about Sheldon Leonard. And then later in my life, as I said, I got a chance to work with people on a professional level other than acting like John Rich, who directed Venson what we were doing a bunch of Benson's and Jay SandRidge, who I talked about earlier was directing. So when we did so and so that was very, very kind of a kind of full circle, very special thing to me to be able to have those relationships years later. And as I said, you earlier, it was Carl, but everybody, when we would do something as a real, you know, get together on an interview show or a special event or something like that. When we were all together, it was like we had never been apart like time it just kind of stood still. And it just we just kind of came back into our own kind of like, family, as it were, well,

Jeff Dwoskin 31:26

you shared an immense bond over a long period of time. And everyone I talk to TV families forever.

Larry Mathews 31:34

And it really is. I think that when we did the revisited show, it really showed itself because we got around the table to do our first reading. And the characters just came right back. Like we had never been apart. It just continued. And you know, of course, Jerry Van Dyke was in that. And Morgan Gilbert, who I just love to death, who was very close. Jerry Paris, unfortunately was gone. More. He was gone. Richard Deacon was gone. But the bulk of us were kind of what that wouldn't happen in 2004. And again, it was like we had just kind of never left each other.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:06

It's amazing, because that was like, that was 38 years after the show went off the

Larry Mathews 32:12

air. Yeah, exactly. Almost 40 Yeah, exactly. And it's

Jeff Dwoskin 32:16

been another 20. Yep. It's crazy how time just flies by because I imagine that doesn't seem like 20 years ago.

Larry Mathews 32:23

I can't believe it was 20 years ago, it seems like it was yesterday to me. But then again, it's like, it's like marriage. Sometimes it seems like the longest time in the world sometimes seems like the shortest time in the world. Been going on my 37th year of marriage and how so? But yeah, it's you just kind of gosh, it was like 20 years ago. And we're like, man, it seemed like yesterday. And like, even when I watched some of the shows, and see some of the shows we did the big panda like show, I kind of remember it like all of a sudden it just comes back to me like oh, man, that was just like yesterday, but it wasn't it was 61 years ago. 60. You know, was

Jeff Dwoskin 33:00

it easy, especially as a kid new to acting to perform in front of a live audience? Yeah, it was for me, because

Larry Mathews 33:08

that's all that's what I grew up in. So I didn't really know anything else besides that. And again, as a as a child, you don't have any fears. You don't even know what it's like to be fearful of being in front of a live audience. You just go do it. Right. And it's like you don't, it's very simplistic that way. And so yeah, it just was normal for me to be in front of a live audience, which is when I did a lot of theater and stage when in between my years of The Dick Van Dyke Show, and then going back into the post production, production end of things and do sales all my life, which was just easy for me to do. Because I was just used to being in front of crowds and people and and being that I

Jeff Dwoskin 33:41

would gather, you just didn't have the fear given that most people would choose death over talking in front of people. It must have just been part of your personality, just to not even think about it, which is great. There's a different energy when you're doing it in front of a live audience. I guess you wouldn't have the comparison now. Right?

Larry Mathews 33:59

Yeah, I mean, that's all I knew, like I said, and it was funny, because, you know, in those days, it went on and on forever. I mean, we had a warmth of cayenne soap too, because we've shot soap in front of a live audience. They bring the cast and crew at the beginning of the show and introduce everybody and then the warm up guy would sit there and warm up the audience again and laugh and tell jokes and this and that, right to get them ready to go watch a show and be an active part of of that show. Because that they were so yeah, I just got used to it. It was just like the norm for me. I never really knew anything else. What was

Jeff Dwoskin 34:27

your relationship? Or could you describe like your relationship with Dick Van Dyke and Mary Tyler Moore during the show? Yes.

Larry Mathews 34:34

So during the show, as I said earlier, Mary was really like a second mom, she'd she was that person she cared. She professional. She would give me the hints she would give me advice. And at one point in her book, I think it's a life Mary Tyler Moore a life I believe is the book. She said that during those years in a show that I felt like more of a son to her than her own son Richie did because he was never there. But they weren't with him a lot, you know, he was in boarding schools or military schools or whatever. So that was pretty special. And then Mary gave me one of the greatest compliments that I just kind of during the revisited show. It's one of those moments where you just sit and go, Oh my god, this is just a great life moment. And I will never ever go into my go to my grave. This will be the one of the most wonderful things ever. But anyway, and then dick, again, tipping deck also would be very helpful, like in certain scenes, where he might say, well, you know, maybe we I'm gonna tell you this, and you can say this to me or something, you know, right. You know, just give me a little incident. And so Dick was kind of like a father but more of a TV father if that makes any sense. I you know, it was just it was the character and so that was great and tick is the most wonderful human being the addict doesn't have a bad word to say about anybody. He's just you know what I mean? That's his deck. He's he's just he doesn't didn't even know how talented he really was. When we did that show. I think again, very humble. And that was just deck and so the chemistry work for us as a family you know, I think and it shows on screen because Dick could relate to having kids America relate to him and kids I can relate to mom and dad trying to be raised me you know what I'm saying?

Jeff Dwoskin 36:08

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So he I found this on the set, Dick Van Dykes. This is from Dick Van dykes, a memoir, Dick Van Dyke would later recalling his memoir, Mathews would sometimes crack up the veteran actors around him with childlike humor. Jokingly referring to actress Joan scholly. Played buddy's wife pickles as aunt wrinkles. Yep.

Larry Mathews 36:30

Oh my god. Oh my god. That's so funny. Yeah. Did you ever think she's great. No, that's wonderful. Yeah. A true It was fun and like, and the other thing was, you know, I was kind of like, when we would be doing scenes and I would say a line it was the was the joke line. Although, you know, I was like the straight man, but I would give the joke line that they were right for me. Right. Right. Right. Laugh and I'd have to kind of go like, don't laugh. Don't laugh because I wanted to laugh because it was you know, it's funny, right? And everybody was laughing at the same time, but we got through it. They did a good job editing. It was fine.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:04

Alright, this is random IMDb trivia. You ended up with Carl Reiner's desk from the show.

Larry Mathews 37:11

Alan Brady's desk. Correct? I did. I had it for God, once I got it and 78 and I gave it to the Jamestown Museum of comedy which is the Lucille Ball museum economy, which is in Jamestown, New York. And 2009 teen so I had a for all those years. It was a great story how I got it. So when I worked for Danny Thomas, Ronnie Jacobs, they had a bunch of furniture started at a soundstage and MGM down in Culver City. And MGM came to Ronnie Jacobson said, Hey, we want our stage back. You gotta move all your stuff out. Well, it was all sets from all the shows they had done for over the years. They just stored all the furniture there. And Ronnie came to me and the guy was working with at the time and said, Look, do you guys want anything, just take it. We don't care. Just if he wants something there. You want to take it? And the guy was working with Chad, he says me he goes, Hey, there's a really cool desk you might want. And I'm like, okay, because I needed a desk. I was at a college and laying on the desk on a desk for my you know, and I saw this desk and I went, Oh, this is cool. And this thing weighed a ton man. I mean, it was old school desk, and it wasn't like today when they build them in their cut, you know, no, this was solid walnut, or you know, whatever the hell they made it out. It was just amazing. I got that, along with the chair. And I carried it house to house. But I mean, we had to take the legs off to get in the rooms for the legs back on. It was just there was a massive piece of furniture. I'm sitting one day at the desk. And I have a little one of those old little TVs that were like, you know, as little 1011 inches but had a little VCR in the bottom of it. So you know, fit on the desk. And I'm watching The Dick Van Dyke Show, and I'm watching the episode where they give the wrong script. They'd written a script for Alan, which is slamming Alan, and it wasn't the one that we got, but that they got turned in, you know, and so it was like, Oh, Oh, damn. So Rob has the breaking down his office and steal the script back before Alan reads it. And so he's in there with a desk and he's trying to open the desk and I'm sitting there looking at this going like, that's, that's my desk. Like, I have no idea. I'm like, I'm sure it is. So watch him do some I'm gonna like a tour of the week. That's my desk. That's a desk I have. So then I was like, wow. Then a little bit later, they had the episode where Alan Brady Lord told the people on Brady was bald, because Because big mouth and he had all the wigs lined up on the desk, and I started going I went that is my desk. Oh my god. I have Alan Brady's desk. I didn't even know it for a long time. So yeah, now it's in the museum back in Jamestown. So yep,

Jeff Dwoskin 39:37

that is hilarious. That's a great story. Oh, I random trivia. Is I found about the Dick Van Dyke Show is the last full run show to be fully in black and white. The last show to do its full run in black and white.

Larry Mathews 39:53

Well, probably true. So Carl was offered. CBS came I think it was in our fourth or fifth season. And then said, hey, look, we can do color if you want. And Carl went, No, I don't want to. It's going to change the show. I don't want to do that. Carl always planned like five years. That was his kind of thing. He wanted to get a five year run, we could have gone longer. But Carl decided to like look ended on a high note. Jake had a lot of offers from other things. And so it just worked out whether that was the right timing for it. Keep in mind back then, you know, we did 36 episodes a year wasn't like now where you do 20 episodes of a show, you know, we

Jeff Dwoskin 40:26

did on eight, right? Yeah. Back like,

Larry Mathews 40:29

so yeah. When we had our run, it was great. They said, well, we can do the show in color. And Carl said, No, I don't want to I don't want it to be different from the other four or five seasons. I want it to be the same forever and ever. And I think we were that last holdout that waited till the show ended until everything went into color after that. It was probably

Jeff Dwoskin 40:46

a solid move, because at some point there would have probably been, oh, we'll just rerun the color episodes, you know, because who can handle black and white? Right? Yeah, right.

Larry Mathews 40:56

I think and I just think, again, speaks to how much of a genius and how brilliant Karina was absolutely.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:02

So, okay, so we mentioned soap earlier, and everyone's soap is considered the most controversial sitcom in history of ever depicting women proclaiming love priests, fictions of sexuality, all this kind of crazy stuff. But the Dick Van Dyke Show no stranger to controversy. Perhaps. If I may point out Mary Tyler Moore wore pants, not a dress shutter. I'll give them a give it those give everyone a second to collect themselves. And it depicted a female comedy writer what? Yeah,

Larry Mathews 41:36

it was and it was very groundbreaking. And like you said, controversial and there was several things that became controversial over the years with us, first of all, with Mary's pants, and the network went to Carl and said, you know, she can't wear those. And he said, Why medicine? Why want to wear them? And they said well, because the pants are tight. So it makes your butt look to it. It undercuts your butt and makes your butt look too sexy. And they weren't there was a big thing about that. And they're going to call it no stop it. So they fought that battle in one. We got away with that. And Mary was again, not the typical housewife running around in a in a you know, beautiful frock doing, you know, vacuuming and all that stuff. So that was a groundbreaking kind of thing right off the bat. I had to pick it up. Yes, a female comedy writer, which by the way, was based on true because when Karina wrote for your Show of Shows, which is Sid Caesar, which is what he based the Dick Van Dyck show on his own life. One of his writers, co writers was Selma diamond. And that's where that character came from. But the Dick Van Dyke Show made that character a force. And I can't tell how many people in my life including we talked about John Provos wife have come to me over the years and said, Sally Rogers was my inspiration to be an independent woman, and to be the woman that I you know, a strong, independent woman and do my own career and attend my own thing, heard it over and over and over again. So that was another grumpy and then I think probably the most groundbreaking episode we ever did, in terms of commentary and social common commentary was called, that's my boy. And it was a flashback where Rob was talking about how Richie came home from the hospital. And they thought that they had switch babies and Rob and Laura had somebody else's baby, because the name was their name was Peters and was Petris, Laura got their flowers. She got all the Peters gifts. Peters got Petrus gifts, because now Matt and Rob was convinced that they'd switch the baby and he had the Peters baby and the Peters have the Petri baby. And so it goes to this whole thing. Now with Jerry Parris fingers, they take up ink pads, put it on my foot to make sure it matches the footprint on on the baby stick anyway. So they say, Look, we're going to we have these people over. Cosmo says, Look, you have something of ours. And we have some of yours is yes, we have your flat. Well, I think it's more than that. Rob says, Come over and we'll meet you doorbell rings, the door opens and insteps Gregory Morris who was black and his wife who was black, that frog thought they'd switch the babies with the black family. And it's the longest still recorded laugh, live laugh in the history of television. We had to stop the cameras, let the laugh go and go and go and go and go and come back and reset and do it again. Because the audience just could not stop laughing. And especially because when you look at Dick's reactions, it was just like he's just so his reactions. His physical comedy is so amazing, right? And they come in and in the line, Dick says Rob says, you know why? Why didn't you tell me? And Greg Moore says, Are you kidding and missed the reaction on your face. So that was like a huge grind. And the network fought us on that. Carl had to go and Sheldon had to go fight the network to get that script done. And it was the first script that Sam Dinafem Bill Persky ever wrote for The Dick Van Dyck show and they ended up being in our story in our head writers for the last three years of the show, and

Jeff Dwoskin 44:55

that is the greatest. Thank you for sharing that. Interestingly enough If you love to Dick Van Dyke Show, apparently you owe Procter and Gamble. A thank you because the show was cancelled after season one. And they threatened to boycott and pull from all their ads, because they love the show so much.

Larry Mathews 45:14

That's a part of it. And maybe maybe a little bit embellished. But what happened was back in those days shows had sponsors there wasn't like now right where you just the network picks you up. And then the network goes out and gets on show with Procter and Gamble was our sponsor, and that was who basically paid for the commercials. And for the, you know, the dick VanDyke Show. The show didn't do well in the ratings. The first year, we were up against Perry Como, and Perry Como was like, the king of television on that night, right? And so they got cancelled. Sheldon went to Procter and Gamble and said, Look, I think this show deserves another chance. Are you willing to back me up? If I go to the network, and say that I want them to rerun it? And then you guys will support? Pay for reruns and do the, you know, be the sponsoring reruns and get it picked up on proctoring? Everyone? Yes, we will. Absolutely. So Sheldon went back to Paley William Paley, the head of the network and CBS and said, Look, this show deserves a better chance. Procter and Gamble is willing to continue sponsoring it. And they don't want to have to not sponsor other shows. Will you put the show on and reruns during the summer? And if the show does well, and reruns Will you pick it up for the next for another season? They said he said yes, they did. The show took off in reruns. They moved it from another night against instead of upping its Perry Como. And then the last four years we won more Emmys than any other show at the time in history of television until cheers Believe it or not, that's

Jeff Dwoskin 46:35

an excellent segue. I have 15 Emmys like you said up until that time, the most Emmys ever and other accolades include two episodes that rank it's number eight and 15 and the top 100 episodes of all time. In 2002, the show was ranked number 13 of the greatest of the greatest TV Shows of All Time. And in 2013, the Writers Guild of America ranked at number 14 on their list of the 101 best written TV shows ever. I mean, you think about it in 2013, a show that ended its run and 1966 XX was ranked number 14. That's a lot of years to now use Dick Van Dyke Show out of the top 100 There's what a bazillion shows a year. So it just goes to show what an amazing though The Dick Van Dyke Show was, you are an amazing part of it must be so compelling to be part of such TV history. As I

Larry Mathews 47:34

said earlier, very blessed very fortunate. Very proud of it. And yeah, even to this day, sometimes Jeff I sit there and go like cotton was I really on that show, man. Oh man, I was like, wow, it's kind of like kind of mind boggling still to this day and you know, 6063 years later or whatever it was right? Question. They mentioned the two shows, episodes that were ranked. What was it number four and something else you said or something?

Jeff Dwoskin 47:59

Yes. Okay, great question. I've those two episodes, the episodes coast to coast big mouth. And it may look like a wall night or eight and 15 respectively.

Larry Mathews 48:11

Of course some great stories about those two. So coast to coast Big Mouth is the one I was telling you about where Ellen Brady, Laura told the world that Alan Brady was bald and they had the wicks on my desk we talked about it earlier. So that was that episode, right? It may look like a walnut probably one of my my probably my favorite episode of All Time, one of the definitely four or five because people asked me this all the time. And I said well, there's a lot of them but that's racks up is right there was written and it was a kind of not the norm for one of our shows. It was kind of a stretch for the science fiction thing going on and the whole you know, the planet twilo And Danny Thomas is the guest star right? And playing the Alien and show letter went in and when we read it and he and he just said this is horrible. This is the worst script ever sent. He threw it on the table tonight. I don't want any part of this. This is horrible. I'm not even going to be involved. It's the worst thing you guys have done as we went through rehearsal and we got to shoot it and Sheldon saw it edited together. He came back crawled said I was wrong. This is probably one of the funniest shows I've ever seen in my life. You guys you guys pulled it off. I didn't think it could and I am so apologetic because you're right and I was wrong. And it's kind of one of our most famous shows ever really

Jeff Dwoskin 49:18

it's amazing. Yeah. Larry these are these stories are treasures. So thank you for sharing them with me. Tell me like now I know you're doing like this cool thing. Celebrity wine tours, people can drink wine hang with you and basically have their own podcast like we just

Larry Mathews 49:36

I know it's kind of been like a personal podcast we can have a good time with so I said as I told you I've worked most 40 some 42 years in post production, production post production and and did sales for most of that time for post production and the for the folks out there post production is the finishing part where we do editing and sound mixing and color correction and everything else to finish the show before it goes on the air retired out of that and 2020 I moved up here to Oregon to live in Portland, Oregon now, and working with a company called a great Oregon wine tour. They can look it up online, and you can go look at the tours they offer and one of them is a celebrity wine tour with Larry Mathews, Ritchie Petrie from The Dick Van Dyke Show. And we pick you up and we take you out to the Willamette Valley, which is one of the more famous and Aava regions for Pinot Noir in the world. It's one wins awards up and down all over the place, and Chardonnays and we go out and we have a good time we talked about the Dick Van Dyke Show, we talk about Hollywood, we talk about wine, we drink wine, because I'm a big wine guy. That was kind of my passion. So as the owner said, amigos, your perfect is I don't need to teach you about wine, you know, more than I do. Almost, he says, and that's great. And it's just a fun, a fun mix. So that's what we're doing. So if anybody ever comes up to Oregon or gets out here, please look us up. Come on out, come out, spend the day with me. We take you to a few different wineries give you a nice lunch. And like I said, talk about stories from the big Van Dyke Show and whatever you guys want to talk about, you know, who were with us. And of course, some great wines and a great afternoon of just knowledge and enjoyment of the wine world.

Jeff Dwoskin 51:06

That sounds like a blast. Larry, do you hang out on social media at all? Instagram, Facebook,

Larry Mathews 51:12

I'm on Facebook, I don't really do a lot of social media. I have this thing about social media I kind of look at as the downfalls of civilization. But that's another story. It's unfortunate. Look, there's some great parts of it. Don't get me wrong, and I love parts of it. But But yeah, I'm on Facebook. And we haven't we do that we have the wine thing up on Facebook again, if they go online. It's called a great Oregon wine tour, and they can see all about it. It's a lot of fun.

Jeff Dwoskin 51:37

Amazing, Larry, thank you so much for hanging out with me. And this was a lot of fun. I

Larry Mathews 51:44

had a blast, Jeff. It's great. I you know, I love doing these things where people can ask, like you said the truth teller. They can ask about things they've heard. And we can always kind of take him down the path a little bit, either elaborate on it, give a little more details on it. Maybe correct a few things that are right, but not quite 100%. But I just love doing this. And I really have had a good time with you. And it's been a lot of fun. So again, thanks for having me on.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:08

All right. How amazing was Larry Mathews and how incredible were all those stories and memories? That was a fun trip down memory lane, huh? Now? Well, the interview is over. Can't believe it. That means the episodes over these just fly by Dante. Oh, my goodness. Well, another huge thank you to Larry Mathews and to Marsha for introducing us. And of course a huge, huge thank you to all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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