#328 Behind the Late Night Curtain with Bill Scheft

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Amy, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 328 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be a late night spectacular. My guest today is Bill Scheft, legendary longtime writer for David Letterman, author of six books, we're talking comedy we're talking his band so much goodness coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds. Dan back at all was here last week. That's right. talked all about his career. So much goodness, do not miss that but do not miss right now. My conversation with Bill Scheft. We're talking Letterman, we're talking Bill Hicks. We're talking comedy in Detroit. We're talking the true it's there's so much goodness, it's all coming at you right now excited to introduce my next guest novelists columnist, television writer 24 years as a monologue writer for David Letterman, during which time he was nominated for 15 Emmys. Please welcome to the show. Bill Scheft. How are you sir?

Bill Scheft 1:44

Thanks for having me. And what a shock that I was available.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:50

Well, you know, I'm glad you are available so much for that for everyone listening. For the next three hours, we're gonna do a deep dive into David Letterman. I so I know. You started out as a comic before heading to the David Letterman and I was stalking your Twitter. I don't call it x. I saw that your favorite Road Club is Mark Ridley's Comedy Club. That's where I am. That's my club. That's where I started doing comedy. And that's where I love the most to. So I was excited to see that as your you spent a lot of time in Detroit. Yeah,

Bill Scheft 2:22

I mean, you know, I it was a club that I work twice a year, from 1984 to 1992. I was the last Road Club, I worked. I got the job at Letterman in October of 1991. And of course, you ask anybody that writes for television shows, and you're all always deathly afraid you're gonna get fired. So I kept a few gigs. And that was the last one I did in August of 1992. I love Mark, I love that place. It was the and I can safely say this, it was the only place on the road where I actually drew people where people came to see me because, you know, in the 80s and 90s during the comedy boom, it's it's just so tough now to be a comic because, you know, you're required to promote and bring the audience and back then in the 80s and early 90s. Some of these places, all they had to do was really open their doors, if they their reputation was that they had good acts, people would come and so I was lucky enough to do that. I did that for 13 years and and I love the club. I love the people and I would get up early to do Oh, for God's sake. No, no. Who who's the morning? I love this guy. And he's on Twitter as well. Oh my god, I can't believe I'm embarrassed that I can't remember his name. He was also he was the PA guy for the pistons. He was the in ARENA ANNOUNCER Oh my Campbell. I'm so embarrassed. And I love this guy. I'll get it. I'll get it by the end of the interview if you keep me on here long enough. But I can't Calvert did I love him Ken Calvert. I adored him and I would get up at you know, five in the morning to get in there at six. I mean five in the morning, which is the time that doesn't exist. For a road comic. I'm usually pulling in around five in the morning. I loved him. And that's where I met one of the more brilliant call in radio guys, a guy named Mark Patrick who used to call in doing a bunch of different characters and got to be very good friends with Mark and his son drew Storen who pitched in the big leagues for eight years. And just a he had a co host named Lynn who was great. He had a lot of great people. That was my you know, I just loved everything about going to Detroit.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:37

It's an amazing club. It's a lot of fun and Mark really is one of the greatest people in comedy. He's

Bill Scheft 4:42

a great and you know what I didn't know and I believe him if he says this, he says that he invented the three comic road bill that he invented the opener the middle and the close. I mean it and I believe it if he says it, I believe it.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:58

That's what I always heard as well. Yeah. Yeah, lay that and he will produce or something with some behind Tim Allen's breakout special that

Bill Scheft 5:07

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And I would I would come in a couple times besides when I would do his club, he would bring me in a couple times a year to do these benefits, like the Doug English golf tournament, and that was down in Texas and or other golf tournaments. And Tim Allen, you know, when I knew him before he was and he was just, he was just funny as I mean, and that's to me, he was just funny to mallet. And he had he used to say to me, you know, he tried for years to get on the Tonight Show. And you know, if you remember his act, it was quite, quite dirty. And but he had as he would say, he said, I had 20 minutes of clean, clean stuff. And Jim McCauley the very corrupt Booker for the Tonight Show, Jim McCauley would come in to see him to consider him for the Tonight Show. And as he would say, Jim McCauley always showed up late always showed up at the 21st Minute, I was on stage. So he had missed all the just see all the stuff that I couldn't do on it. But he was just so he was so strong. He was so strong. There were a lot of a lot of those local acts in Detroit. They were very strong. They just had a very good community there of comics. And I think that that I think Ridley had a lot to do with that.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:28

Yeah, really fostered a lot. When I was coming up, starting doing comedy with the open mics. It was Wednesday, open mics. And then there was like a Tuesday kind of Greatest Hits open mic with an improv true. And then early on, when I started before Mark came to his senses and would book someone for an entire weekend, he would literally book the up and coming comics, like I would call in and go for Thursday, or Friday or Saturday. And that's how you moved up. And then eventually, it was like, you just got the weekend.

Bill Scheft 6:56

Right? So we didn't cry because I stopped at 93 was the last year I did stand on I

Jeff Dwoskin 7:03

think I was just starting so yeah, yeah. So I

Bill Scheft 7:06

mean, I love it. And he also, you know, I've been doing it for however long and somebody told me a comic told me, they said you don't get it, do you? And I went, but you know that could that's a big. That's a big topic of what I don't get it. You don't get it. You don't understand the liquor bill, for the first show Saturday. What they take in at the bar pays for everything pays for all the acts all the travel the hotel, it pays for everything, and he wasn't referring to Edmark really, I have to say paid fairly. I mean, you really didn't feel like you were getting taken away, you know, and that's a shortlist. That's a shortlist. And and I'll just tell you, because, again, the guy that I'm referring to is dead. So I can do this. So I would come in every six months into the comedy castle. And everybody on the staff would say to me, oh my God, thank God, you're here. Kip adata was here last week, he had 200 walkouts, he trashed his hotel room. He got a waitress pregnant, and he walked out on a to $2,000 bar tab. That's it. That's enough. And then six months later, I would be back at the same bread, which is fine. Kipper daughter would be in front of me at a raise. I was so glad you're here. He had 300. But you know, he would be back six months later. Yeah. But that's that's the way it was Kipper, Donna, who was notorious for opening for Diana Ross in Vegas, and making the mistake of wearing a light colored suit and peeing himself on stage during the yet so that's it, and also getting the crap beaten out of them by Roseanne Barr in the parking lot of the Comedy Store. And whenever Roseanne was on our show was on with Dave, he would, Dave would say please just if you could just could just tell the story about beating up Kipper data in the comedy. He said the audience has it, but I need to hear this. So you know, Roseanne would sort of funk for and then would eventually get to it, and then the next eventually, and then one morning, I get in. And there's a long long message from Kipper data, who I had worked with several times we've never met. My name is Kip Adonis. We've never met worth telling his name over and over again, I can assure you, if Roseanne Barr and I got in a fight. She would not walk away I can assure you of that. And you know that so that was okay. But that's it.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:44

I think it's a good lesson not to wear light colored suits anytime whether you're going to pay yourself or not. Absolutely.

Bill Scheft 9:51

And I think if we didn't learn that now we learn that in the remake of A star is born at the you know, I don't want to ruin the movie for anybody but That's what happens with Bradley Cooper, I

Jeff Dwoskin 10:02

would always have to go to the bathroom a million times before I would get on stage. So I learned early on, it's not about paying yourself. It's about splashing yourself in the sink. There's a million ways. Yeah. So well, yeah,

Bill Scheft 10:14

I had a now that you've opened up this, I was a comic, like I said, for 13 years. And I loved it for the first six years. And then for the last six and a half years of the last six and a half years, I realized, Oh, my God, I'm an introvert. I don't I don't get any energy from the audience. I'm all the energies coming out of me. And I started having this thing where I would get it would happen on the road where I would, you know, I'd fly in and I'd be, you know, I'd be closing and I would get on stage the first night and you got to do 45 to an hour, right, you know, right. From the second. I got on stage. Until the second I got off stage. I was sure that I was peeing in my pants. And that they saw it. I felt it. I couldn't I said I can't believe they're not doing anything. I can't believe nobody sees it. I keep sort of looking and and then I would of course I would run off the stage. And when it was over, go to the bathroom pull that bone dry. And this went through it was it would be the first night on the road. So finally I'm working in Vegas. They had a club at the Riviera to doorman was Steve Chu. Ripa the door via pre sopranos pre fat suit, Steve Chu Ripa and my late wife the common Adrian tall, she also loved Ridley's club, and I'm working with her and JJ wall, we were all friends from catch rising star, we'd all been booked together. And you're only you only have to do like 10 minutes at the Vegas clubs, you know, because they just want a very funny story, I'd say after. So I'm up the first night and I'm doing the thing, and it's my first set. So I'm doing and I get offstage. And she says, what's going on? You kept looking down. So now I gotta tell her, this thing that a you know, it's been going on for a couple of years. And she says to me, she waits for me to finish and she says, sounds like somebody doesn't want to be up there. And I stopped performing a couple years ago, and I get in the shop getting a job at the Letterman Show help. But that was it was like it indicated to me, you don't really want to do this anymore.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:19

If I was up there and someone just would look at me, like below eye level. I was sure the entire time I was up there. My fly was down.

Bill Scheft 12:26

Well, that of course is about it. Also. I did. I did. Evening at the Improv I did a couple times the first time I did it, they had absolutely run out of a, b, c and d they were down to the E list. And the guy who is hosting the show at the time, he would have some you know, celebrity but my host was norm Nixon, you know, la Laker guard, you know, run out of town by Magic Johnson. They would give very non traditional intros, non showbizzy intros for evening there for some reason, I don't know why. So Norm Nixon, this is at, let's say, it's ADA. It's the height of the no because he was gone by then. So let's say was 86. It was the height of the Celtics Lakers rivalry, and Norm Nixon gets up there. And he says, next comedian, is originally from Boston. So would you please give a luke warm welcome for Bill Scheft. And they did. So I'm on stage and I used to work with a cigar smoke cigars constantly and I was never without a cigar on stage. You know, you do in six minutes and about admitted to I look over into my left hand, I used to hold a cigar in the same hand as the microphone. And I see my hand is shaking. But to me, you know, it looks like this. So you know the act you know, you know you're at Cole, the act is coming out of the mouth and he's smiling and the whole thing in my head, I just say, Okay, Bill, here's what you do. You put the put that switch hands with the cigar butt in your right hand, put your right hand at the side. And that'll stop the shaking. Just do that. You know what I make the switch flawlessly, and the act is coming out of the mouth and in the head. I just sit very good bill. That's good. You find you find. And then I look over and just my hand with the microphone. It's like this still going. And for the last two minutes, as the act is coming out of the mouth that I'm smiling and get my laughs in my head. I'll never be able to do television again. I'll never be able to do television again. That you know, it was just crazy. It was crazy. And I And years later 1000 years later, Dave gets the Kennedy Center Honor. And before the actual event at the Kennedy Center. There's a there's a big event the night before at the State Department and different people make toasts and it's a great event. It's really kind of star studded and so I'm sitting at the table with him a couple of people from the show and I look at at the table next to me I see Debbie Allen. And I go, Well, if Debbie Allen is here, I wonder if her husband, Norm it. Sure enough, here comes norm Nixon, and he sits down at the table next to me. And I walk over to him and I say my name is Bill Scheft. I used to be a comic. That's not important. I would like to do for you now, your introduction of me on evening at the Improv, but 1988 He shakes his head. Sorry, man. But that was that was that.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:32

That is hilarious. Yeah. Now, one

Bill Scheft 15:34

more. Oh, you reminded me the Vegas story. I was not in on this. But Mitzi shore had a club in Vegas at the dunes. And she had, and you know, and I'm sure you've worked the clubs in Vegas, you know, you know, as a guy told me, You're just a buffet that tells jokes. You know, get them in, get them out. So the shows are very short, and you don't have to do too much time. So Mitzi would have like a six act show. So every act was doing 10 minutes. And her closing act was a guy named Ali. Joe Prater, who was a notorious road comic worked everywhere. He was a big draw. He was also two things about him. He liked to lift other people's material, and he also weighed 400 pounds. So the acts are doing 10 minutes apiece, you know, 400 pounds, it's going to take Ali Joe Prater, 10 minutes to walk onto the stage. So what they did this is the God's honest truth. They had him back just sort of off the back of the stage under a boat talk for the entire show. So Larry amoroso, my best friend would emcee and he bring up the other five acts. And it would literally and that ladies and gentlemen your headliner, and pull the boat chop off and there'd be Ali Joe sitting there. And he would do his act because he they could not afford the time to have him come on stage. That's true. Wow. That

Jeff Dwoskin 16:59

I don't even know how to like internalize anxiety because it seems like how did he feel about that? Alright, he was just happy to be there. Yeah, I just Oh, wow. Okay, all right. Yeah, that's crazy, though. Yeah, yeah.

Bill Scheft 17:13

I'm not gonna say i By the way, everything I'm telling you today is true. Oh,

Jeff Dwoskin 17:18

I believe everything. I didn't know if you'd feel bad once the TARP was removed or you know, like if you're in the audience or just laugh it off because I guys by just

Bill Scheft 17:27

being I think that, you know, I think that you know, it's it's sort of it's kind of Vegas II when you think of it, it's almost like a David Copperfield reveal. You know, he also at that time, he was so heavy. He did the whole lack he did his whole act sitting down anyway. So this was like friggin Tuesday for him. So

Jeff Dwoskin 17:49

who else was coming up when you were doing comedy during this I

Bill Scheft 17:53

was in I was in the I like to say that I was a half generation after Jerry Seinfeld maybe started like three years before me him and riser and, and Larry Miller, they were all about three years before me. I started in 1980. And I auditioned to catch a rising star. And the woman who ran audition night she didn't took took me six times to pass. And then I got even with her I eventually I married her that was Adrian Tosh, who was the first female MC catch rising star and just crazy funny and the three house MCs a catch rising star were Adrian Bill Maher and JJ wall who I mentioned and who used to work Ridley's club all the time, loved and Ridley, they loved each other. And I replaced Bill Maher's the house MC after he did his second Tonight Show and move to LA. And so that was 82. And, and I was there for, you know, five years. And then you know, I worked all the, you know, all the showcase clubs and all the clubs on the road. And I was in Australia, I went to Australia three times. And, you know, I worked all those clubs all over the, you know, the country. That's what you did.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:03

Did you ever ask Adrian, why did it take so long for you to pass me? Yeah,

Bill Scheft 19:08

of course, I did. Only on a regular basis. Well, I think that she well, she said you were very, she said you were funny, but you were very arrogant, and which is not untrue. And I think that I think it was probably a little bit of a test at work but but of course, she always denies that it was six times anytime I would tell the story. You know, she would stand behind me, you know, like, two, two, maybe maybe it was three but but it's it's kind of it's interesting because it took me six times to pass audition and catch rising star and it took me six submissions to get hired at Letterman. So not you know, that's I guess that's the magic number. X

Jeff Dwoskin 19:49

is the number for you. Yeah. Did you start dating Adrienne and after she passed you are during the process about

Bill Scheft 19:55

about a year later? About a year later? We dated for three months and then I'm might have said something really stupid in front of other comics, and we broke up for nine months. And then we got back together and we stayed together and we were married. You know, we're married 26 and a half year together 34 years married 26 and a half years and she went to heaven seven years ago, but she was, you know, well, I mean, just fire up the YouTube machine and put her name in. And, you know, she was as strong as anybody. She was just as funny as anybody. I

Jeff Dwoskin 20:27

did. I did dig into I love it. It was impressive. You guys, you guys. I rather you guys toured a lot. You guys. executive produced. Take my nose, please. Together. Yeah, that's

Bill Scheft 20:36

my 90. God. She's 95. Now my 95 year old cousin Joan Crone. That was her first documentary. And we she was she's a fascinating story. Joanie, she, career journalist, amazing life, invented the expression high tech. She invented that expression, wrote a book in the early 70s, called high tech. So she was always interested in being a filmmaker. So she decided at 88, but that she wanted to do a movie about plastic surgery because she knew more about it than anybody. And she would talk to us. And she said, you know, the only people that are open about their plastic surgery or other people's plastic surgery are female comedians. So I said, Well, there's your movie. And she said, women are moving about female communities in plastic surgery. And Adrienne said, Yes. And we'll help you because we, we know everybody, and that's what it was. That's how it started. So yes, I adore her. And she worked on. She's finishing up her second film Joanie, she lives in Florida. Now. She's live seven blocks away from me. 95 She's 95 Now it's still working. She's amazing.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:52

That is amazing. Anyone wants to check out this movie. It's a great documentary.

Bill Scheft 21:57

Take my nose, please. It's, I guess it was Yeah. 2017. It came out. Yeah, it came out and got a lot of awards in the festival circuit and still plays. Yeah. And, you know, it's funny, because she said to me, when the things started going, she said, you know, because it was your, because you and Adrian kind of gave me the idea and encouraged me to do this. I'm making the two of you, executive producers. So I never I always hated the idea of being a producer. But I took it very seriously. And so I said to her, Well, okay, since I'm the executive producer, how you doing with money? She said, Well, she said, we're about $250,000. Short, I said, I went to school with a bunch of billionaires. I'll get you that money in in a weekend. And I started reaching out to all the really, really rich guys that I had gone to prep school and college with. And you know, there's a reason why billionaires are billionaires, because they don't invest in documentaries. I did not come through for her at all in that regard.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:05

Who's looking to quadruple your money. What do you got? I got this directory. It's called take my nose.

Bill Scheft 23:10

playfully. Yeah. Right. It was really

Jeff Dwoskin 23:13

good, though. You can get it on to be I think, get on Amazon. It's, it's pretty much everywhere. Yeah. Files to comedians and then has stuff on Phyllis Diller. Your wife's in it. She's interviewed in it the Oh, so I still

Bill Scheft 23:26

work in I mean, I still work in documentaries. I worked. I worked in a couple currently working on a friend of mine, Eric draft, who was a brilliant filmmaker. He's putting together a documentary series about Don King that I'm helping him out with. He's you know, there's a lot of there's a million great documentaries as a million great sports documentaries. In my opinion. Eric Graf did pound for pound, the best sports documentary I ever saw, which was on Renee Richards. He did it for ESPN years ago. And it's as good as anything you'll ever see. And so he's done a lot, mostly boxing. So I'm working with him on that. I worked with him on the on a film about Hector macho Camacho. And, you know, I help out. I've been working on a documentary about Richard Belzer. For I don't know now about six years, and that's moving along. So this is what I do now.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:19

It's awesome. Yeah. My friend is he's a comic also about Phillips. He's, he was a boxer and so he is always talking about some kind of documentary or movie about boxing. He loves He loves loves loves that.

Bill Scheft 24:34

It's so it's, why is it so fascinating? I think I know, it's so fascinating, because it is just an openly lawless sport, and pursuit. And so of course, you're going to have the most compelling characters in it. It's

Jeff Dwoskin 24:56

always a great story. If somebody comes from nothing and then can have a side be worth millions upon millions and maybe lose it and then win it all back again. And it's just all these amazing stories. Yes, I wanted to talk about the true arts tried to true. It's the true essence, I wanted to talk about the true essence. I did want to say what caught my eye originally was you made a comment about it was an obligatory comment about just reminding people that the Supreme started four times after Diana Ross, on your Twitter, I thought that was kind of funny.

Bill Scheft 25:28

That's, you know, every, not every Saturday, but I would say three out of four Saturdays a month, I run back, I have to get back to my house at noon, and fire up the 70s channel on Sirius, where they replay a random week from the American Top 40 in the 70s. And there's a bunch of us on Twitter, because you and I are just calling it Twitter who live tweet about the list as they're playing at the chart. And I like to crack wise, and it is so much I love it. I love the people. I love how serious it gets in terms of how strongly people feel, you know, and and there's only one rule, you are absolutely forbidden to refer to when a song on the chart before it plays don't ruin the chart for the rest of us. That is the only you get you get really scolded if that happens. But yeah, the supreme Yeah, I'm endlessly. Yeah, that's I'm kind of fascinated by that. And I bring it up. Every time. There's a gene Terrell song on there,

Jeff Dwoskin 26:46

your band, interestingly enough, and this ties into one of the novels that you wrote, I'm glad me, you wrote that, and then sort of and then started this band, you only play music 9067 Or before, which is great. Yeah,

Bill Scheft 26:59

we're very Nishi. And I'll tell you what happened. So time won't let me is a book. Inspired by the story of my brother's band, The Rising Storm. He went to Phillips Academy, Andover in the early 60s. And he had a band, he was in a band called The Rising Storm. And they were they were pretty good. They play dances. And they decided to make an album like every garage type band did back in the 60s and 67, before they graduated. And unlike every other album, they added five original songs, it wasn't all covers, and they were also just a little better than most bands like that. And 15 years later, in 1982, Boston, Phoenix publishes an article, do you know this band, because their album calm before is now worth $2,500. Because there were so few and they happen to be better. So my sister reads this calls the guy that wrote the piece, and the guy said, this is the guy you need to call, he's a collector. And she calls this guy that guy's name was Ron Fantasia. And she says, I'm Harriet shefte. I'm Tom, Chef sister. I said, Oh, my God, you know, he's from Boston. I feel like I'm talking to Ringo sister. And he got the band back together to play a few gigs. And then collectors love this band. So for years, they would reunite. And the album became more and more valuable. It's now worth, like, $10,000, if you have an unopened original copy of calm before, well, so this story kind of started breaking in at 287. So I when I was thinking about an idea for a second novel, I said, this is a great story, what happened to my brother, but it's a little too little too clean, a little too cute. So I'm going to make it 15 years later, and the album is worth $10,000 Ironically, what it's worth now, and these guys are all 48. It's, you know, it's 30 years later, you know, rather than 15 it's 30 years later, these guys are all 48. And they can't get out of their own way to get back together. And I named the band, the truants. So the book comes out does pretty well. I get, you know, nominated for a runner up for the Thurber prize for American humor. And but all at all the reviews for the book are this is the most accurate depiction of a band behind the scenes that I've ever had. And I've never been in a band. I've just observed my brother and heard stories. And so a guy writes me who's gigs regularly, and He's raving about it. And I said, are you digging into your aces? Yeah, we got to get down at auto shrunken head, which is a classic bar that has bands down the Lower East Side. So I Went and saw me at a surf band. The Thurston house was the name of his band.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:05

That's a great name. Yeah. Well, no, no, no,

Bill Scheft 30:07

excuse me, the howling thirst ins, that's the name of his band. So I go and I see him in that great and I go up to him between sets. And I say the only thing that would have made it better if you drummer a dropped dead of a heart attack, and then I would have had I could have subbed in, and I hadn't played in years, you know, I used to play on the road, I would go sit in or whatever I would do and, and he said to me, do you play I said, No, but I would love to play so well, you should join this musicians collective called the studio. And I did. And I started playing at jams, I got my chops back. But I got tired, you know, in a jam, when you're in a jam, the singer calls the shots. And I'm not thrilled with that. So I decided after a year or so a couple years, I'm going to start my own band, because I'm tired of playing Neil Young in this nonsense. And so I put an ad in Craigslist, and I found a couple guys who didn't rape or kill me and, and we started this band. And I just wanted to jam and practice I never wanted to play out because we've gone over how I'm done being on stage. But, you know, they wanted to play out and we started doing it. This was 2010. So it's now coming up to 14 years later. And we've had, we had a few changes early on. But we've essentially had the same guys for years. And it was and I wanted to play the stuff that my brother played, which was nothing after 1967. But we opened it up a little more British Invasion, which he didn't do, but a lot of garage. So we're garage and British Invasion covers, and we play all over and we have the benefit of being good. And I and when and when they wanted a name. They said what are we going to name the band? I said, Well, I don't care. We name it going forward, but just for one night, I'd like it to be the true ones, which was the name of the band and time won't let me. And they said no, that's great. So that's what it was. It's the Truman's I love

Jeff Dwoskin 31:59

that. That's a great story. Sorry to interrupt, I have to take a quick break, I do want to take a moment to thank you for your support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my conversation with Bill Scheft. As you're telling the story. You have written five books, two of them are option for films, but this isn't one of them. This one, it would be a great film. Yes.

Bill Scheft 32:27

And I think that I always I had a little interest from Tom Hanks. But it was just so close to that thing you do. He just didn't want to go down that road again. But he he was very Yeah, yeah. And also there's an AI also, it has more characters than any of my other novels. So I thought it was it would be one of those great things for you know, George Clooney to get the gang back together. But they're all way too old now. But yeah, I thought it would make a good movie. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:58

It could have been a good sequence of that thing. You do. Yeah.

Bill Scheft 33:01

And you know, Tom Hanks, whatever. He talks about that thing you do. He says, you know, it was the first film I ever directed. I made so many mistakes. I would love to, you know, have the chance to do it over again. And I'm thinking you're not. I've seen it a billion times. I don't know what you're talking about. But that's that, you know, that's that thing that that's that thing we do. He told a great story on Letterman to promote the movie where Dave said to what was it like being a director, and Hank says, I didn't understand the power that a director has. Overall. He says, like the second day, I'm having a conversation with just some guy and it's not about the movie. We're just having a conversation. And I happen to say to him, oh, you know what, I love turkey jerky. And somebody on the crew overheard me, and for the rest of the shoot, there were carcasses hanging and drying and different flavors, just because I had opened them. Somebody overheard me say that I liked Herky jerky. I

Jeff Dwoskin 34:10

think the jury's out. Whether that's because he was the director or because he was Tom Hanks.

Bill Scheft 34:15

Well, I think it's well, I don't think you're well. So you think that he could have gotten away with that on a movie that he was the starring vehicle for is what you say? I'm

Jeff Dwoskin 34:28

saying if I'm sitting around and I hear Tom Hanks go, I like turkey jerky. And I want to get in with Tom Hanks. I'm getting jerky.

Bill Scheft 34:35

So you're so Wow. Interesting. Okay. I agree. I see. Yeah, sure.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:41

I mean, from Tom Hanks point of view. I believe that's what he says we're on Letterman for a second. So you were plays Bill Hicks one night on Letterman.

Bill Scheft 34:50

Yes. Now Bill Hicks. So my wife, who was the house emcee catch a rising star and played on the road a lot and Every once in a while, and we had a lot of power because the MCS decided who went on so she works on the road with emo Philips and she gets back to New York and she calls Bob Morton and she said, I gotta I gotta comment you need to see when you see him the next time he comes to New York. So Morton comes in, he sees emo. He sees him a couple more times, and then email gets booked. And that's it. And I had the same experience with Morton with Margaret Smith. I got Margaret Smith on the show. Now, Adrian goes to Houston. She sees Hicks, who I had seen in Atlanta, and I thought it but I never, I would never put together like, seeing, Oh, perfect for Letterman. I just, but she did. So she calls Morton and she says I saw an act. You need to come in and see him. His name is Bill Hicks. He's from Houston. And Morton says Well, look, you know, we did very well with emo. So I'll come in now, a lot of people take credit for Bill Hicks getting a but it was Adrian wasn't J. That wasn't other people. It was Adrian. So Hicks goes on the show. He sees a Morton season once booked him on the show. He does the show eight times at NBC and he's one of Dave's absolute favorites. So now here we are. We're at CBS. We're on five weeks. And Steven Wright was the first comic that we booked and Hicks might have been the third. Maybe we had maybe Carlin came on in but maybe Jerry I don't know. But we were on five weeks. It was our 25th show. And they book Hicks and Hicks and I were all old friends and I've worked on there. You know, we got along great. I was very fond of him for a million reasons. And also one of the writers on the on the Letterman Show back then was one of my good friends and a great comic Jeff Stillson. Great comment and a very popular comic on the old Letterman Show as well. So Stillson is now on staff. So Hicks. He's backstage I go to say hi to him before he goes and he's not dressed. No leather, no black. He's got a yellow button down oxford shirt and a yellow tweed jacket. It's like, it's like he raided my closet. And I say to him, what's what he said, This is the new, friendlier Bill Hicks. They go Oh, great. So now he comes out and he does the set. And he does does fine. But it's not. There's there's some things about it. And I'm thinking, well, maybe I'm imagining this seems a little not quite Hicks. Like to me. This seems some stuff that's a little gratuitous or whatever. But I think well, you know what he does great. And then he sits with Dave. And Dave says to him, Hey, have fun reading your mail. That's the last thing Dave says to him. So now I go upstairs to we were on the eighth floor back then the writers and still says waiting for me and still says oh, I go backstage afterwards. And I tell Hicks. You did great. He said really? Do you think did Dave like I said Dave was laughing at the dancing bit. Dave was Yeah, and he was working at Caroline's that night. And I said, I'll come see you at Caroline's. He says, Great. I go upstairs. And there's still since waiting for me. And he says and Stillson and him were very close. socios Was that was that opening joke was so hacky. And that was so weird, the choices. And so now I begin to think well, maybe what I thought was wrong. So basically what happened was they the show thought, Look, we've only been on five weeks, there's a lot of stuff that, you know, is would be tough to defend or whatever. So let's, you know, and it shouldn't have been approved by the segment producer. And we'll, we'll take care of it. And we'll assure him that we're going to have him back. And you know, we just won't do a couple, he won't do a couple of the bits, like the abortion bed or whatever. And that was, as I know, in retrospect, that's what happened. So I come up, it's a Friday to say goodbye. And I was doing the audience warm up back then. And I come to say goodbye to Dave. And Dave says, Be sure to watch the show tonight. And I get embarrassed and I go was I caught on camera, you know, because you don't want to be caught coming out of the break doing this to the audience looks bad. I said I was I caught on camera. Tape says Yes, something like that. And it was that they had decided to cut in a set that I had done on one of the two Shakedown shows a stand up set. And that's what they did. And of course the great irony of all of this is in a perfect encapsulation of my stand up career was you know, at the beginning of the Letterman show on CBS. We were doing Monster numbers. We were doing 10 million viewers a night. I mean, crazy, you know, it was just a sensation when we came on at CBS, and it's this is the 25th show. Of course, I'm on this show. And when it's you know, when Bill chef publishes a novel, or when Bill chef appears on television, the world yawns, and that's what happened. And it kind of, it became a big story after the fact. And Bill ran with it. And, of course, compounded by the fact that he was dead four months later, and nobody knew he was sick, except his, you know, his mother and his girlfriend and colleague, who I love to help ran the club in West Palm Beach. And so, you know, for years, you know, people would interview me or they would, and of course, it was always sort of cut out, because it didn't jive with the narrative that he was censored. All this, and, but that's what happened. And then, as you know, years later, Dave had the mother on had Mary on and re aired the set. And so she's on the show, and he finishes the interview with her. And I used to be off to the side during the taping, and I would entertain the man between cameras, during commercials of his own show was my job. And so he finishes would marry the two segments. And I go off to Mary, and I say, Hi, Mary. I'm Bill Scheft. And she says, I know who you are, Bill. And Bill, loved you. And always said, if there was any comic that, you know, he was happy for. He said it was you now, this is this woman. I couldn't, you know, obviously you can tell it's still have trouble dealing with that. But that's the kind of woman she was, you know, so that's what happened.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:58

It's nice that she gave you that closure. Yeah, well,

Bill Scheft 42:01

I mean, I get Yes, yes, it was. But you know, what, you know, thank God, you don't live in this head. Of course, it it sort of re opened all I mean, I didn't even think of it until all of a sudden there it is, is like oh my god, this is the thing that I was kind of a part of, I kind of thought the issue was closed. So she opened and closed it, let's say, Well,

Jeff Dwoskin 42:24

it sounds to me, though, that while you are a part of it, you didn't know you are part of it. Correct. You weren't given the choice to say, hey, Belle, Chef, we need you to go off Bill Hicks. And you're like, alright, I'll do it. But I've got, you know, like, where you'd have that drama on your head? Like, should I do this? I'm gonna betray him.

Bill Scheft 42:44

Right, it was it was a piece of tape in here. And it kind of fit perfectly. And it was. And of course, the great irony of all of this was, it was if it wasn't the last stand up set I did when I did the shakedown show. I didn't do too many more, because it was clear that I didn't have to do this anymore to make a living. I think that I'm trying to think, oh, you know what happened? No, I was done. I was not really doing it. But I still remembered the act. And then I went to see Adrienne is she was working in Vegas in November at the trop and she was sick. So I had to do all five shows in the weekend for her but I still I mean, the act was still and that was the last time I did stand up. Yeah. That was that next month. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 43:31

Wow. Wow,

Bill Scheft 43:34

I hope we get into the next millennium somehow. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:37

Where do we want to go? I did want to ask you. Do you always eat chocolate chip cookies the way they caught you on camera? Not

Bill Scheft 43:43

chocolate? No, no, no, those were those were oatmeal. It was okay. I was picking out the raisins. And yes, I hate raisins. But the fact that that was, you know, filmed without my knowledge or consent. But of course, as I said, you know, the fact that it happened it got included in that last great Barbara Gaines montage on the last show. So I'm kind of grateful for that. But yes, it is. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 44:10

it was. It was pretty What can I tell you?

Bill Scheft 44:13

I don't like raisins. But I don't think I can be more clear. Do

Jeff Dwoskin 44:16

not be raising. Let's talk more about your books. Let's talk about you got your latest Tommy DASCH.

Bill Scheft 44:23

Yeah, that I would recommend that to you more than all of my other books, because that you will relate, you will know the life you will know some of the characters involved. And basically, again, this is a good story. So during the strike of 2007, the writers strike us as everybody got all their information from Deadline Hollywood heard from Nick effect, and I got to be friends with Nikki. You know, she sold Deadline Hollywood and made a killing and part of the agreement of the sale was the She would never report on show business again. That was part of the non compete. So she's a smart, she's a smart lady. So she said, Well, okay, I'll just start a new website, where we write fiction about show business. And she reached out to me in like, April or March of 2015. And I said, Nikki, I promise I will contribute something. But we're in the last three months of the show. It's all encompassing, but I promise you, I will contribute something to show and luckily, her start date is pushed back. And she, you know, showings in May in June, she says, Well, what do you got? And I said, Okay, I promised I do some for you. And let me think about it. So I figured, you know, anybody can write like, 2500 words on some nonsense or whatever. I said, I need to do something. What we used to call the Letterman show a refillable, something I can go back to. I knew there was a great story that I knew that I used to tell about rich Jenny, the late great, rich Jenny, one of Mark Ridley's absolute favorite comics.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:13

I've Richard Mr. Janney live twice.

Bill Scheft 46:15

I mean, he and I worked Australia together twice. And he was as funny as he was unhappy. He was and he was a guy. And you and I know guys like this, you and I know, guys, that really, they should be on stage all the time, because they cannot handle life off stage. And he was, he was one of those guys. So I, one of the last times I saw him. It was we had worked on the Oscars together for Chris Rock. And he came back to New York. And I said to him, and he had dinner with me and Adrian. And he loved Adrian, I said, you know, I've been telling a story about you for years. And I don't even know if it's true or not. And he says, well, what's the story? And so the story that I had heard was that he got hired by Clint Eastwood, to do one scene in the movie bird. And it's, it's a dream it for a comic, it's one scene, and it's all them. It's the type of thing that a comic can do comics who aren't actors. So Clint Eastwood is notorious for coming in under budget for eight hour days on the set, and for being totally prepared and filming all rehearsals. So here comes Jenny and for his day, right? And they say, Okay, let's, let's do a rehearsal. And Jenny does the scene. And Clint Eastwood says, Okay, that was that was good, rich, but could you do it and be just a little less angry. And Jenny, in front of Clint, the cast, and the crew says, I'm too angry. Here's a guy comes into town kills everybody. And Clint Eastwood walked by his ad and said, Get rid of them. And I tell the story to Jenny. And Jenny says, not only did that happen, but you tell the story better than I do. And I told that at his memorial, just so I know this story. So I decide that I'm going to create this character, Tommy dash, who's this unapologetic 60 year old comic, trying to apologize his way back into show business. And the first installment was, is that somebody calls him an agent, and says, Look, Clint Eastwood wants to see you to read for Sully, and Tommy dashes the agent, look, there's a little problem and tells him the story about bird. And the agent says, Well, if you write an apology to Clint Eastwood and put it on the website, and you write in a book, you know, maybe, and that's, that was that was the first chapter. And then I had, there was so many stories like this from my career, my alleged career that happened to me or other people, that all of a sudden, these installments, they just kind of I could do write about that. And it was all set in LA and Adrian used to read the stuff and she said, You're scaring me with how la this is because we both hate LA. We both hated LA. So Nikki Finke, she started this website, Hollywood dementia. And sadly, it did not have the traffic that deadline did but I was the most popular writer on the site because I had this series going about Tommy dash, and he gets a job on a sitcom and it's it was a lot of stuff from my life, a lot of stuff from other, you know, I named some names of the names I didn't name and I wrote about 10 of these for her. And then I realized, whoa, I've written 25,000 words. That's, that's like a third of a book. I can't keep giving the away for free. So because she wasn't paying any of us shock, but she would always sort of hold out, I'm in meetings with HBO when you know, that was Nikki. So I ended up, you know, writing the rest of the book, and I finished it in 2000, I was flying along, and then my wife got, you know, sick for good, and went to heaven. And so I didn't worry about it for a while, and then I finished it. I turned it in. And my agent, you know, loved it. And it was giving a little too much information. It was right, it was at sort of, at the height of the beginning of me too. And it's not that Tommy dash is a misogynist. It's just that there's some language in there early on. And some people got a little freaked out by the language in a piece of fiction. And so she stopped sending it out. And once like, half a dozen people have seen it, it kind of kills it for a book. So I didn't do anything with it for years. And then somebody suggested you should do an audio book, and you should read it. And I thought, That's a great idea. But I know me, and I don't have the wind. To do that. I don't I just don't physically, I don't think I could do it. And I knew I couldn't do it. So I knew this guy, Johnny Heller, who was I was reintroduced to him. And that's all he does. And he's a former comic, we knew each other, we played softball against each other for years. And so he did it. And he was connected enough. And so it came out a year ago. And it just got he just got nominated for the book for best humor, voiceover or whatever the hell, and you will get a kick out of it. And you will get just about everything in

Jeff Dwoskin 51:53

the book. That is my next purchase. So I'm excited to that end,

Bill Scheft 51:57

he does a great job. He does a great job, Johnny Heller,

Jeff Dwoskin 52:01

it seems like all your books would make good movies.

Bill Scheft 52:03

I think so. But you know, here's the thing about all my books, they would all make great movies in the 1970s. There's sort of, you know, it's that 70s sort of reality relationship. You know, there's a little it's just that it's, it's the tone of it. Of course, those are my favorite movies were in the 70s. It's not as it's not the type of story that gets told today. Although I will say that there was a movie a couple years ago, a based on a book written by somebody I knew. Will you ever forgive me about Lee Israel, that who forged famous people's letters, and I knew Lee and my wife was good friends would lay and that was, that was a great movie. And that was like a 70s movie. But I appreciate it. Thank you. Oh,

Jeff Dwoskin 52:54

my advisor, my advisor. Okay, so you the only person who was at Letterman longer than you was Steve Young.

Bill Scheft 53:00

Correct. The only writer that was at Letterman longer than me was Steve Young. I

Jeff Dwoskin 53:05

had Steve Young, I had a great conversation with them. So my question is sharing the story you want to check with? Who is there just less than who would be a third person like it'd be? It would be Steve, then you then who I just need to Gerard Mulligan

Bill Scheft 53:18

Gerard Mulligan. Okay, so you live and if you get him on the bike? Yes, he is. He is alive. And he lives there. He retired. He was with the morning show. He goes all the way back to 1980. He retired in 2000. Was it four? Yeah. 2004. He was there 24 years. But he took some time off. And Steve was Yeah, Steve, Steve and I did more shows. We're all it's all about the same amount of time. But Steve did more shows that because I took two leaves of absence. And Steve took one. And Gerard took a few don't. He's great. And he's really funny. And just He's a wonderful human being and best friends with Chris Elliott. And he's, yeah, so that Yes, that's correct. When the show set when Dave celebrated 30 years and late night in 2012. They did a top 10 with the longest tenure staffers and at the time. I'd been there. You know, 20 to 20 years. I didn't come close to making that top 10 list. Not close. There was so many people that had been there longer than me.

Jeff Dwoskin 54:30

Wow. So people like to stick around.

Bill Scheft 54:32

I mean, look, the man engender that type of loyalty. That's that's the only way to put it. That's amazing.

Jeff Dwoskin 54:38

Yeah, I know. We've spent a lot of time together. I just have one couple quick, fast questions for you like you have like sides Tom Hanks. Favorite or craziest gas that was on Letterman.

Bill Scheft 54:50

Tom Hanks was a very, very, very strong guest. Martin Short was consistently the best guest and Martin Short would do thing. It's one of the first things they posted on the Letterman YouTube channel, which is run by Barbara Gaines and Walter Kim, two very good friends of mine. And one of the first things they posted was a supercut of all of Martin shorts, opening fake compliments to Dave. And he would come out. And he would, it would sound like a compliment, but it wasn't. And he would come out today and he would say, you know, you can I just say, You look fantastic. I you have like a boyish, I was watching on the monitor. And I said is Rachel Maddow hosting the show tonight, he would always say some kind of insulting, and the but the best one of all of those was one time he came on, he said, You know, I applaud the decision you've made to wear your suits tighter. I mean, he would just always it was that there were many great moments and great guests with me. And I covered a lot of them for my favorite moment segment for the YouTube channel, but it was the shows, you know, when you're on for when you work for that, however many 1000s of shows that you know, 5000 or however many you remember some stuff so clearly, and you can't believe this stuff you forgot. And Steve Young has an incredible, you know, almost identic memory and that yet he would forget stuff. And we both worked on the monologue together for the last few years. He was he's just There's nobody like him. And we've had a lot of really outs we had a lot of outstanding writers on the show, guys that went on to huge careers and but for my money, he's the best all around writer the show ever had. Because he could do anything. He could do anything. And he had that sensibility.

Jeff Dwoskin 56:54

Do you have any one line that you consider? Like, okay, this is the greatest thing I ever wrote a letter man, my good one night I have?

Bill Scheft 57:02

Well, there's a couple every Well, I would say that there are like a couple of like, I would say maybe four times a year when I would be working on the monologue. I would say to him, I think you missed this. I think you missed this joke. It'd be one of mine. So if it was four times a year, maybe one out of the four, he would say all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. Show I'll tell you about. So the last one of those was Pope Francis, he had passed on this joke, and I got him to do it. And he did it. And it was great. And it was that Pope Francis, who was brand new then said that he would not judge gay priests. But I believe his exact words were let he who is without sin cast the first musical. And I love that joke. And it but I'll tell you, the greatest joke of mine that he didn't do. And he called me in to tell me was there was a thing that happened. I want to say it was 96, round 9596. Some guy sued the Tonight Show with Leno, he sued them, because there was a guy that would come out before the show with a T shirt cannon. And he got hit in the eye with a T shirt. And he sued the tonight show for damages. And my joke was on the bright side. It's the first time since Johnny left that somebody didn't see a piece of material coming from a mile away. And and I get the call. Dave wants to see you. And I come down to his office and he was points to the joke. And he says to me, you understand why I can't do this. Do you understand why? Yeah. And that was it. That was the but I love that joke, obviously, because I'm telling you that a great joke. And

Jeff Dwoskin 58:56

that's great. Joe, and Letterman must have loved it for him to have brought your point that out.

Bill Scheft 59:02

Yeah. But you know, he, he and I was very lucky, you know, because he's 10 years older than me. But we have the same sensibilities because I was the youngest in my family. So my sensibilities are like 10 years. So we and we also were both comics. So we had that. So we always and I was lucky because I could say things to him that other people on the staff could not and I don't know why but I think and I remember one time I come down there to work in the on the monologue with him. And I say to him, how you doing? He says, Well, I I went to the ophthalmologists today. And I said how did that go? And he said, well, the guy told me I wasn't producing enough tears. And I said, Have you thought about working for yourself? And I just stared at me.

Jeff Dwoskin 59:52

Then it's so funny. Ah, it sounds like it was just amazing. Just all these stories. I can't thank you enough for are hanging out with me and sharing them with me.

Bill Scheft 1:00:02

It's my pleasure. You made it very easy. And of course, you know, the fact that we had the instant Mark Ridley simpatico connection made it easy, but no, it was great fun. It was great fun. I you know, I don't I don't do these things very much. And sometimes they go, okay. And today was certainly one of them.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:25

I'll take it today. There'll be like I my social media went okay.

Bill Scheft 1:00:29

Yeah. Nobody got hurt. That's the thing. Nobody got hurt.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:33

Thank you so much. It was great. Yeah, thank you. All right. How amazing was Bill chefs so many amazing stories. I know. So great. I'll put links to his band and his books in the show notes. Go check that out support Bell. Well, with the interview over, it can only mean one thing I know the episode is over. I can't believe it either. They just fly by, don't they? One more a huge thank you to Bill Scheft. And, of course, a huge thank you to all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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