#321 Unmasking Dr. Doom: Joseph Culp on Roger Corman’s Fantastic Four

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Sue, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 321 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Welcome to what's sure to be one of the most fantastic episodes ever, I could say doomed to be one of the most fantastic episodes ever, because my guest is Joseph called the world's first live action. Dr. Doom from Roger Corman's, the fantastic for the unreleased Fantastic Four. We're talking petitions to get that movie released. I'm excited, you should be excited. I am so into the lore of this movie. And that's all coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds, would you believe this is a continuation of the fantastic episode from last week episode 320 with Rebecca staab the original su storm from Roger Gorman's unreleased fantastic for this episode with Joseph called the original Dr. Doom completes my Roger Corman. Fantastic for trilogy, Alex Hyde White from Episode 260. Mr. Fantastic to storm and now Dr. Doom Well, it'd be more I do not know. But for right now, this trilogy of excellence is upon you. We're going to talk with Joseph coming up right now talking about being the son of a famous actor Robert Cole. And of course we're diving deep into Roger Corman's. Fantastic Four. Enjoy. Alright everyone. I'm excited to introduce my next guest, actor, director, the man behind the mask the original Dr. Doom, welcome to the show. Joseph Culp.

Joseph Culp 2:23

Thank you. Great pleasure to be here. Thank you. Yeah, I did the you're talking to

Jeff Dwoskin 2:29

you. I am excited to have you here. The Roger Corman Fantastic Four movies always been like I've been obsessed with it. I haven't mvhs I got into Comicon. I mean, it must have been over a decade ago. I remember watching at least once. I've seen it multiple times on YouTube. And Alex hyde white on it. I've talked to Rebecca, so I'm excited to have Dr. Doom the original Dr. Doom. I want to get into all that just the mystique of this movie is Austria's history.

Joseph Culp 2:58

Yes. That's wonderful. I'm glad to talk to you because we have so many fans over all these years. And it's a well that's very gratifying to say the least story of this film is prodigious. Let's build

Jeff Dwoskin 3:13

up to this story. The film One of the things you encountered with Alex, you had a famous father as well. The amazing Robert Culp. Yep. What was it like growing up with a famous father? And did that? Is that what led you to become an actor and a director? All

Joseph Culp 3:29

the above? Yes, I'm, I'm one of those second generations. Like Alex, I'd like my father, Robert Cole, pretty famous actor, so a writer and a director, but was very well known for your audience who might not know primarily for doing the first fully interracial series in the 1960s called I Spy, which he co starred with Bill Cosby, that time as a rising comedian. And that was a super cool series about two spies traveling the world and who were best friends. So it broke the color barrier. It was a big civil rights kind of cause that series and my father was very well known for that. And then other great John's like pop, Carrollton, Alice 70s. A lot of interesting, you know, TV movies, appearances on Colombo, which were quite famous, and in the 80s, one of the only early superhero series called The Greatest American Hero, which is kind of a, you know, kind of a cult favorites and cult favorite and the cultural favorite, so to speak. And so I grew up with that, in Hollywood, you might say, around the business and on film sets, and so I was quite small. And certainly by the time I was in school, I was already showing my passion for getting up in front of people and then theater and cool plays. And pretty soon I was you know, I was I was a young actor studying in New York and doing theater, and very soon I started to get parts in TV shows and films. And so it really, I always say it was if you have a parent who is in the business in a way, it gives you a certain permission to dream that you can do the same, which you know may be more difficult sometimes coming from the outside of it. On the other hand, there's also kind of a burden to it as well, there's this kind of second, I say it's a blessing and a curse of that at the same time. Because then you've got if you have famous parent then that can you can be you know, somebody in their shadow, so to speak, or how do you how do you show your individual talent beyond what people may think about you like, oh, well, his dad's really famous. So what about him? So, you know, I think that's a journey that actors have a second generation have to go on. If you get some celebrity early on, or you you do well, then that's one thing. But for many of us, it's a journeyman path. You have to gather experiences. I've done dozens of you know, independent films occasionally, you know, then something with larger would hit. And all of that did kind of prepare me for round 1992 getting cast in the first version of the Fantastic Four. Roger Corman's. Fantastic Four. So I'd say you know, yes, my preparations as an actor and my early experience. Also, I want to say that my dad Robert, was, he was a very passionate fan of genre stuff, since he was a little kid. In fact, most people don't know, he was actually gonna be a comic artist. He was an excellent graphic, you know, he could draw comics, and he did his own comics. He loved comics, autumn, breathed them LibDem. And it was just by accident that he went on the stage. And it said, oh, actually want to be an actor. And it changed. So he never lost his talent for drawing. But it's interesting. And so he He raised us, me and my siblings with a love of fantasy, fantasy films, fantasy animation, he made me a student of all of that. And so I think when Fantastic Four came along, it was like, Yeah, I could do that. I could do this. I like to do the bizarre and the monstrous. And you know, Lon, Chaney, Sr, was like my idol, and all the universal horror and all that too. So somehow going into the shoes of Dr. Doom, I was, I was primed for that.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:21

So you mentioned the great American hero, which is I think, if I picture your dad, I think just based on where I was in my life, that's, that's where I primarily think of your dad is from that show, because I think that was show I was watching, like, when TV really was, for some reason, the great American hero, if you grew up at that time, young teenager, that was just it was just something that lived with you.

Joseph Culp 7:41

It was unusual. If you had a love for fantasy stuff. It was an unusual moment on early 80s, television, comic superhero, basically everybody can my father blade, the hard nosed FBI agent who was sort of the partner of William cat star, such

Jeff Dwoskin 7:57

a great show. And then I was always aware that your dad was iconic from like I Spy and with Bill Cosby in such an important show. So let me ask you a question. If I'm doing the math correctly, when you're young, tanish, eight to 10 Your dad's just coming off a spy give or take a couple of years meaning like as a young Joseph call, your dad is at the highest at that moment of like, start I'm like, What's it like just going to the mall.

Joseph Culp 8:23

I mean, that's, that's a very real experience. When you're your father or mother are really that recognizable, and my dad was plain and simple, you know, you we couldn't go anywhere without people looking and staring. And usually walking over and trying maybe to pull an autograph. I saw that since I was I think I became conscious of it. By the time I was seven or a seven, probably six, I don't know, really was aware quite yet. I knew he was kind of important somehow, you know, but by seven I was noticing it. And when we were in restaurants or you know going to Disneyland or doing something you know, that was with family. It was a thing and what happens I think is your you to be really honest about you both feel kind of proud and kind of marvel at your father use a word marble and a little bit embarrassed, maybe a lot embarrassed, kind of like, oh, everyone's looking at us. How is that? It's not normal. Somehow we you kind of knew that. I knew like Utah, people always come over to always in the restaurant. And my dad was generally quite gracious about it. He wanted his privacy, but he was, you know, generally I would eat sometimes he she gets in the wrong time while movies like ah, please, you know, go away and don't bother us here. I'm trying to have lunch with my kids, you know, or whatever. But I also went to Well, I went to a boarding school early by about eight and a half with a lot of other kids who also had celebrity parents. So you know, Marlon Brando's son was there for a while, in fact, Tatum O'Neal, who was quite famous child actor in the 70s. And her father, Ryan O'Neal, and Tatum went to the school with us. I was kind of, you know, it became a bit like, I'm immersed in that a bit, but my dad tried very hard to, I think, normalize it and be a dad, a good dad anyway. Even if he wasn't there a lot of the time because it was working poor he had this no, the aura around him of stardom. And yes, it was exactly at that time. 789 10 I'm very aware that my dad is this persona. And then, you know, I think that me and my siblings also knew this is another part of it. So I said, No, kind of proud of them. kind of embarrassed to be me, because I'm just good. And I'm obviously not as important as this man. And then there's Wow, there's other aspects to where you feel that I should be kind of, you know, like, I'm kind of the keeper, a bit of my father's stardom, because you can only imagine in schools, kids either might want to like you because your dad special, your mom's, but boy, they might resent you and think, oh, what makes you so special on that whole trip? You know, it's like, that's very real, you know, kids are, they can feel jealous, or they can feel envious and mean about it. And then you have to feel like I'm defending my dad, you know, and like, our family. So it's complicated. I won't kid you. And I think it takes many years to figure out your way around that. And I think I get when

Jeff Dwoskin 11:34

you're that young is is part of the weirdness of it, I guess, that you have, in a way you're sharing your dad with everyone. I mean, the people just can walk up and say, Hey, Mr. Cole, can I get your autograph? You're eating dinner. It's like your dad time. It's family time. It's like, it's got to be an interesting thing. That process as a young kid, yeah,

Joseph Culp 11:53

you have no, no choice somehow, but your father is prepared to share with the public. It's a strange thing. You know, it's, like I said, I think it's both something you could feel special about. But at the same time, you can feel kind of burdened by it. You know, and I think most a lot of kids went through that this like me, who had a parent recognizable like that, sometimes the positives hopefully outweigh the negatives.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:20

So one of the positives would be again, back to great American hero. This is your first acting gig is with your dad.

Joseph Culp 12:28

That's, you know, the probably the only time my dad ever did a little inside nepotism, you know, cuz he was not like that. It was like, well, you want to be an actor, you better go figure that out. He really was not like a gung ho like, my my brother is also an actor. And he was very much like, you know, while you go prove it, if you really mean it, you know, he wasn't immediate in his sport. I would say he wasn't averse to it, but he wasn't immediate, but that he really went for it. He said, Look, I have this show. He says I'm I'm wanting to write in direct some episodes, because he was always trying to get his own writing and direct his own stuff. And sure enough, on the last season, he said, I'm gonna write this script, give it to Stephen J Cannell. And I'm going to try and cast my boys in. And it really was a moment where he, I have this power, this capability at this moment, and I'm gonna try and do it, we still had to come out. And I remember going my brother and I, we played brothers, and from a Latin American country. So we both had Spanish accents. And we, we studied our Spanish accent to do it today. Ricardo Montalban, I don't know, we had to go in front of casting. And my dad was there at the casting directors. They're kind of a setup. But you know, the producer was like, Well, sounds okay. The boys, the boys, I'm sure they're fine. We need to see them. And so we did. My brother and I rehearsed our scenes just because we were theatre actors in New York. And we were coming back to LA to audition for our father's show, even though it was when I think about it. It's like, well, what were they gonna say, Baba? Now? I don't think we can use your group sons. It's a balancing act at that point. And so sure enough, thank you, Dad, you gave me my first experience. On a professional young camera. I've done a lot of like, we've done a lot of home movies growing up, you can believe that, like a lot. I always had a camera running. And I even did some like student projects, stuff like that. This is my first professional gig. And he gave it to me, and I will always be grateful. And I never repeated except years later, I was making a film. And we appeared in many other movies together, one in which I was the producer. So I begged him to be in the movie hunger is in that movie called hunger. That's right. And where he plays the producer. And I'm the poor starving writer is really phenomenal scenes between us which paralleled our relationship in a certain way. And this was you know, we were I was fully an adult by them. And then a couple of other movies where we were just cast not independently but independently of each other where we appeared in the movies Panther and a movie called innocence. And I always thought well the casting on that just said, well we have young cop. Let's get the older cop or vice versa. So we had our moments. My dad,

Jeff Dwoskin 15:10

that is amazing. Yeah, so I so great American hero and then is the highway to heaven you got like there's a bunch of gigs. Before Dr. Doom,

Joseph Culp 15:21

I had a few. I was in a movie by Alan J Pakula. Called dream lover that was a really big hit. But it is a great director, truck and many great films are called the President's Men and so I had some experience under my belt for I got to do but nothing you know, what could prepare me for doing Dr. Do

Jeff Dwoskin 15:41

what could prepare Joseph called for

Joseph Culp 15:45

golf? Well, a lot. A lot did prepare me but But I certainly never expected something like that to happen at that moment. And then the story that unfolded is pretty much beyond belief.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:58

So let's dive into some of the infamous story where it's been 30 years towards the animal talk about the petition, you have to get it released, which is exciting, because that would be fun. That would be fun. Alright, so how did you become aware of the Fantastic Four to begin with? I don't mean the comic book. I mean, the movie your agent? Yeah, whatever you're like, hey, it was Dr. Do originally who you was that the only role you tried out for? Yes,

Joseph Culp 16:23

absolutely. It began certainly with a call from agent and I got a hold. Remember, I got the whole script, or I really just got like the scenes probably just just to see No, I may have gotten the full script. I remember going there casting what the fantastic for you mean, the calm and the Marvel comic that I used to read when I was you know, kid and who's doing that Roger Corman is doing it. Wait a minute. That's, you know, I mean, we had seen, you know, some superhero films, as we all know. And it was, you know, by the end of the 80s, we had getting the 80s with Superman, and then we had Batman, Tim Burton. Anyway, I just saw Roger Corman. First of all, I knew I'm a big film geek and film historian myself. So I said, Well, Roger Corman, well, that's kind of awesome. What but but he only does cheap movies, you know, just low budget movies. So all that stuff was really in my head. And I got the script, and they go and I said Dr. Doom. I just had, you know, I wasn't I've often gone on record to say it's, it's true that Fantastic Four might have been the only comic I really thought was really, really cool. When I was a kid. I've been I mean, I knew from you know, Spider Man and all that Superman, but when I remember thinking about Marvel's and the Hulk, you know, I remember the 70s series, The Hulk and and certainly I'd seen comics of that. But when I think about, I believe, I mean, it's I'm really being truthful that that when I think of Marvel, and I think of something like fantastic boys that there were four, they all had these unique, you know, mutated abilities, you know, a Human Torch, visible girl, I've stretched all over the place, Mr. Fantastic. And the thing, Ben Grimm, that and I knew that last in my memory was Dr. Doom, even though I knew just reading the words and the roll, I said, that's, this is somebody, I just didn't have it in my mind. So I immediately went down. And I looked at some comics at comic bookstore, and I met a Ha, right now I remember, there's this guy, and he's in a metal suit, and a green cape. And he's really, he's kind of a brilliant mad scientist somehow. And he's like, a Lord. He's like a tyrant king, he has this nature, you know, and so I, you know, I, I kind of got it under my skin a little bit, and thought, well, whatever this project is, I'm going in there. I'm gonna do my, my damnedest to knock this out. And so that's, that's how it started, I did go to that casting session,

Jeff Dwoskin 18:53

what kind of I think re invigorated my interest in the story, and all the lore was, I saw doomed it popped up i firestick. And so which is a great documentary about reading documentary of this movie. And you know, as you were in it, you're all in it was just like, it was just amazing to kind of watch you and all your co stars kind of just talk about how passionate you were about this movie, that eventually perhaps was just a ruse. That'd be just a kind of financial shell game type thing so that they could keep the rights to it.

Joseph Culp 19:28

It's quite an a quite a story. And it depends, you know, from what point of view you want to look at it as the truth will never fully be. I think for one reason, because bear and I can go the producer held the rights the fantastic boring, he's passed away, and he never went on record to say whether or not the film was intended or never intended to be released. We do know and we know from Roger Corman and from a lot of stuff that came out later. This story is that the reason why Roger Corman was producing It is because the German producer who held the rights had to have a film in production by the end of 1992. Or she would lose the rights. He had the rights because Marvel had been selling off rights for years because they were just trying to stay afloat. And this guy, Baron Eichinger knew it was the honor opera out what he got the rights for, but wasn't for much, probably. And he was not going to lose them. Because he said, There's got to be a way to have a big superhero movie, who a Batman has been all of that. So he contacted Roger Corman, this much we know and we know it from all the stories that came out in that documentary Doom, which was really well researched, well interviewed. So we were whole thing was just streamlined. Overnight, the writer was commissioned to write a script pregnant. Yes. And within a month, they were casting it. And we were gonna go into production, you know, before the end of the year also that a contractual agreement could be sustained. And we were making the movie. And that's what you hear in that wonderful documentary. So I hope your listeners, maybe check that out if they haven't seen it. Yes. And that goes back to how this how the casting went, which was that each one of us, Rebecca staab, alex hyde white, jay Underwood, and myself and Michael Bailey Smith, we're absolutely passionate. We're about doing this movie, we were absolutely taking the opportunity and say we're going to do this whatever is coming in, whether it's Roger Corman producing it or or Marvel or 20th Century Fox, we're going to we're going to do our best. And the director Olisa son was absolutely committed. So I went into that session. And holy said, that was great. And you do it again and do it even bigger. Like, this is Dr. Doom. So I'm challenging you don't be a method actor about this. I want to see fireworks. And I went, Okay, here it comes. And so I really went for it. And, you know, this is a case where I view being over the top is okay, Dr. Doom is over the top. He is He is the top and then some. So, you know, I think it's important to always remember that when you look at this performance, it's outsized. It outsides is the movie in some respects. But you know, I, I just didn't hold back. And again, my love of monster movies. And I'm also trained, classically, you know, bringing some of that to the table. And I just said, let's just figure out how to make this most authentic and true to the comic. And that's what everybody was really up to. That's what the actors wanted all my co stars, the writer and the director, he says, Look, we don't have a lot of money, we're going to make it as true to the comic as we can. That was our directive. That was our main goal was like he matched the drama of humor, the pesos, the sincerity, even of these characters, and that's what you see in the movie. Many people say, Well, it's a bit cheesy, it's a bit sentimental or, and yet, you know, so many fans go but it works. You know that that is the Fantastic Four. That's nearly that's what we expect.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:59

Sorry to interrupt, had to take a quick break. I do want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my conversation with Joseph called more doom. It does work. I've seen it quite a few times and it says it's a fun movie. I will say I found it through some of the petition, links and stuff that slash film with nice Seibold is from February 2024 Not too long ago they ranked all five of the Fantastic Four isn't that includes Dr. Strange, John Krasinski is as read and they put you as the number one best fantastic for the worst being the 2015 Reboot than Dr. Strange and the first fantastic for the came after yours. The high budget one and then the rise of Silver Surfer is the second best one. And then the Roger Corman fantastic, unbelievable. Sick as number.

Joseph Culp 23:56

I mean, come on. I mean, how cool is that? How cool is that? And after all these years, and now let's add to the to the irony of the whole thing. So we did this movie, and we did our level best to just embody the roles and it was a terrific script in a in a drill, I always want to say a classic way, you know, classic style, you know, the way we might envision those characters coming off of the page. We're not trying to make them cool in a modern sort of way we're saying they do say these perhaps cliche or anachronistic things that are part of that hymn written in 1962 the original fantastic floor and in a way we were kind of playing to that and it's it's kind of wonderful director did Lisa son does such a great job I think because he knew we don't have the special effects. We don't have the big budget set pieces but we've got is is a story. Oh, you got the characters. We're gonna just tell it that way. And he added all kinds of cool things like you know, you kind of kind of told it a little bit from Um, you know, like with a comic edge, like even some of the angles and you know, doing triangles and doing stuff that you know, back to the back end days or whatever, like Batman series days in a certain way, he said let's even camp is okay here a bit, you know, a little bit campy, you certainly encouraged me to just go for it and give as many layers to doom as possible. But all that being said that people embraced it, and they embraced it after the fact. Because, as you know, as the story comes down, you know, by the time we were ready to release the film, and don't tell me they weren't going to release it, you know, because Roger Corman never did not release a film that he made never accept this. And only because it was bought back from him at the last minute, or producer Constantine films. Andrew was gonna you know, we were on press junket. We were due at signing autographs, we went to Comic Con. And this was back in the days when I always say comic book culture around the time of this film. For me, I would almost nearly call it still underground culture. It hadn't yet gone mainstream. That happened later, that happened within the next 10 to 15 years where it was like, you know, now all the CGI was great. You could do X man, you could do you know, Marvel could do everything it wanted to, it hadn't taken off yet. And so we were still in a period where we our fans were hardcore, they were loyal. And they were ready to see this film. And when we had the when the plug was pulled, so to speak, it was an enormous shock to everybody. And yeah, the backroom deals and all of that totally unaware of it. director called me up and said, Joseph, I gotta tell you, you know, I don't know how to tell you films, films not coming out, get the show, money me and didn't have an explanation. And we didn't get one for years, years and years. So I'm telling the whole story of what happened to the film last minute, as a precursor to the great irony that you and I are talking about. Irony is very slowly, the film started making its way out to bootlegs. VHS copies like the one you have yours, you know, it started circulating through comic bookstores and comic cons and various cons around convention. And within the next five years or so, it was quite common that people said, oh, yeah, do I have a copy of that? Very good. But you know, we could see it. Some more years go by and DVDs start appearing that are actually higher quality, I have some intel on how that happened to there were some of us had three quarter inch tape, copies of the self. Those got leaked out, shall we say as well, when digital stuff was better. So you started seeing, you know, DVDs showing up in comic book conventions, and being traded, and eventually winds up on YouTube and rest is history, the film becomes one of the most probably the most bootleg film of all time, I'm willing to say I think that's true. But you couldn't find one that was you know, I think in certainly in the 10s of 1000s. And who knows, maybe this film has made its way around, and therefore has become a fan favorite. And it's outpaced even the other ones as you're just telling us now on this list. So how is that possible? So film that was never officially released is the favorite. It's an amazing story. For sure.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:17

It is an amazing story. Now I know. I know you have a petition to get it released. Petition. Do you think it's amazing as it would be to be released? Don't get me wrong? Do you think they mystique of it not being released is it's worth having that like you lose that mistake? The second it goes mainstream. It's such a

Joseph Culp 28:38

you know, that's a valid point of view. But you know, we've had Mystique for 30 years.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:44

You're over mistake I'm done with mistake.

Joseph Culp 28:47

I'm kind of like I basically just want to go on record as saying, listen, folks, you know, Marvel has its universe this is part of the Marvel Universe to not acknowledge it as part of the Marvel universe when indeed it has this many fans and who all agree film is important to them is a shame. And I believe that we've had the mystique and we should now take it to the next level which is an official release of this film that frankly, you don't have to go on YouTube or look for a bootleg to go see it. We're on the like the third generation of fans now and I would hope that the kids have kids can say oh, I can go see that film. I can stream I can get an on streaming or I can get a Blu ray of it. I just think it's time to at least you know for the 30th anniversary to make some noise about this I just feel good noise I call it and I'm not I'm yeah i guess i I'm ready for the mistake to to be part of its history and not the future. I'd rather have the future be the film finally gets a kind of do and I don't personally bribe on the mystique myself. I think it's you know, it's it's I don't feel like a victim at all. It is what But it is, but I can cite you many other films that were rescued from obscurity. And were remastered and brought out I mean, silent films. There's whole preservation societies that go into like restoring films and trying to get them to the public. Why shouldn't the fantastic for that has a loyal fan base? Why should that have the same? So that's my position on the petition.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:22

I mean, I do think it would be amazing. And as you say, in the open letter, it will lift the curse of the Fantastic Four, which they need to lift before the new pagico Pascal one comes out, which looks promising, but, but they have had a run of bad luck.

Joseph Culp 30:38

I wrote this open letter using this. This is the theory I'm offering. I think you and many others have concurred, it's as if there's a curse to this film franchise. And I posit that part of the problem is that you the first film has been denied on some level. And I link that to systemic theory, which is a whole philosophical theory that says, when you don't honor ancestors, or some part of your family system, you get problems. If stuff, like old traumas or things are hidden, if that stuff stays around in the family system, it shows up in later generations, even in the epigenetics, you know, the genetic codes get modified. So I know it sounds a bit a bit kooky and a bit out there, but not really when you think about it, and why shouldn't that be true with a film franchise? It could be and we happen to know that there's, I just say, like, the fans that were disappointed initially, I think it's you know, it's carried over a bit into like, alright, well, now you're going to show us another fantastic for what maybe we don't trust you so much with your, you know, taking care of the legacy of the Fantastic Four, because you kind of, you know, screwed over the first film, which we really liked. So I think there's something there. I'm willing to say it's, it's just a theory, but it's not too bad one if you were looking for reasons, why is there a sort of a curse on the fantastic or it just doesn't work out? And I would hope that the new one is wonderfully successful. But I bet you if you were to release the old fantastic for the very first the origin film, so to speak, you would do something you being Marvel, that would be such a treat for the fans, and would be an exciting moment. You know, I just know social media would really kind of go crazy for a minute and say, What do you think the old fantastic for is finally being released? Those fans are going to be more primed for the new one. And that's my theory. That's Joseph, you know, maybe stretching it a bit but I don't know I, I think there's a curse and it should be lifted. And and this is the way to do it. It's

Jeff Dwoskin 32:44

not crazy. If you look at from a marketing point of view, it's not not a crazy thing to say the least the one has never been as a primary to get people excited for the new one purely as a marketing ploy to be great. Who needs to do this? Who needs to hear your open letter and your petition who literally can make this happen? Pretty much

Joseph Culp 33:04

one one man, one man, and his name is Kay and Kevin Feige, you know, who certainly knows our film, and is a great, you know, mastermind himself the whole trajectory of the MCU me Kevin Feige is really quite a talented person. It's really him that has carried this vision for the MCU, though, for the last decade or so. And so, yes, a person like Kevin, for those around him would say, you know, that might be a really cool thing to do. Why not rescue this film from this strange kind of purgatory? The way Dr. Doom wants to rescue his mother from hell and you know, release the Fantastic Four, it would be a terrific marketing moment for Marvel period Marvel Studios, and a great precursor to the next film, I guess is going to come out in 2025 So I think on the 30th anniversary of the unreleased call it of the Fantastic Four, I decided to write this open letter and write up a petition and send it out there as much for my guess for myself to feel that I'm not just going quiet about this again, I don't I don't thrive on the mystique per se. I mean, it's it's a wonderful irony that this film became popular even though it never got released. But as I say, I think it's time to take it to the next level and it could be a lot of fun to do that so and I think it would lift the curse SoSAFE Dr. Doom

Jeff Dwoskin 34:33

I feel like you all deserve it. I know what I said about you know keeping the mistake but I do know you guys put your heart and soul into this. I know the people when this we you know from watching the documentary when it wasn't gonna happen still went and finished it people the music folks came in and spent like 1000s of dollars of their own money to put the music in it really the only thing some maybe overlaid special effects and some fixing of some of the Sound the vocals with the mask and stuff but it's like guys all like secretly like finish this movie no

Joseph Culp 35:07

artists, I don't care how artsy they are doesn't want their work to be see. Now luckily my work in this film has been seen by a lot of terrific people and and all that and the other actors too and the director but although I always feel the director got the shortest shrift, shall we say of the whole thing? Because, you know, a director actors too, but especially a director only gets his next job because of what he directed before only deserved that. So yeah, there's there's a sense of like deserving for work to be seen. And I also want to add, just for history for posterity, it's important that works are not banned or shelved unceremoniously for No, really good reason. Maybe there was a reason then, and I get it. I accept that part of the history. In fact, how cool would it be for now to be available since Marvel, in my view, owns the universe anyways, so it's like, they don't lose anything. They can only gain from it in the early days. I kind of understand. Yes, Marvel and the producer wanted to make a big budget Fantastic Four, they felt this would impact that. Who knows? It's three decades later, and I don't think they're going to be impacted negatively at all. It's part of history. It's like watching old Hulk episodes. The Hulk made his way into Marvel Universe and did very well. Absolutely. they remade that several times. Is that right? Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 36:35

you've stay in touch with the cast. You guys are still fantastic for family.

Joseph Culp 36:40

Yeah, I would call them the fantastic work family for sure. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:43

Have you guys thought about doing like some cons of being the 30th anniversary of like going out and then like getting attention and media press that way.

Joseph Culp 36:50

So last slumber, a journalist in how that works. Oh, Mark Sykes. Mark Sykes, who was the original one of the original casting assistants from the film and later became the producer of doomed, directed by Marty Langford produced by Mark Sykes. Mark had got an invite or whatever threw his hat in the ring to do a panel at La comic con los angeles and asked us if we all wanted to do it. And and I came out and an ollie came from New Orleans. And Craig Navius the first time Pratik has ever appeared, I think in public to talk about the film. He's the screenwriter. And he kind of you know, stayed away from the whole thing for many years, Glenn garland, the editor who worked so closely with Ollie during that year of making the film, and Rebecca was gonna come and she couldn't make it, Rebecca stop. And at the last minute, she got the gig or something. And so we all went in front of an audience in screened, doomed, that was the thing Mark Sykes showed doomed, and then we got up and talked about it. And this kind of started the bowl, law ball rolling event, and we got some calls for interviews. And then it occurred to me as only I talked to the director as it you know, this is going to be our 30th year, and we should do you know, we should really go for I think, and just, you know, not let it just sleep, let's talk about it. Let's talk about our film, we're proud of it. We know it's a part of history. And I think Marvel is in a terrific position to do something with it. And so that's what happened. And so the answer to your quite long answer is yes, I think this is the year to do it. And I think someone in Los Angeles suggested we do that. Do it again, at a new comic con, or LA Con this year, and try and get everybody there. And do you know, do that?

Jeff Dwoskin 38:38

That'd be amazing.

Joseph Culp 38:39

That'd be great. You know, one time I was, I actually was, there was a terrific guy in St. Louis, had a wonderful convention called contamination was called Deep tire, and Dave Lewis out and I was there we all came, Jay Underwood, who, you know, basically got out of acting. Some years ago, he came to, we all appeared and did some signings. And sure enough, he said, Look, we're not going to charge any money, we're going to screen it. And she screened it in a, you know, a hotel ballroom for probably, you know, a little over 100 people. It was really sweet. You know, it was like, we're watching the film with an audience for the first time have her this was some years ago to over 10 years. And people laughed and clapped. And it was like a hoot. And it was also fun, you know, it was just just pure fun. And I saw in that moment, what this could be if you were to do some screenings, if we could, because that was denied to us, you know, we never got to have that experience. And I saw what it could be and I saw it through the lens of fans with that much the whole story behind us you know, it's it's like okay, it never got released. It got out in the underground, so to speak, and now we got to watch it with fans who really dug it. And it was really a lot of fun. So I take that moment. And I remember that moment. And I think, like, see that again?

Jeff Dwoskin 40:07

That'd be fine when you said underground and you were discussing, and I was like, Oh, they did night showings and people dress up as the Fantastic Four. And they do what lines from the movie and stuff like that. Now, that's

Joseph Culp 40:20

funny, actually, that could actually happen. I think if it was, you know, available for, you know, Midnight showings at various art theaters. Ya know, what I you know, of course, what I mean, when I say underground is that I maintain that this is true that in 1993 94, you know, we just hadn't comic book fandom, so to speak, just was underground. But it wasn't, it wasn't mainstream, yet. It was slowly starting. And I think, you know, by the time of X man, and I'm not sure what year that was, but you know, by the 2000s, it was really rolling by Iron Man, all of a sudden, these were blockbuster films, the facts were great. And the characters were fully realized. And to me, Marvel took over Marvel is the biggest film franchise of all time, there isn't anything bigger. It's

Jeff Dwoskin 41:06

amazing what they did, building that universe. It was It is amazing. And I believe that Kevin made everything canon. So technically your Canon, I

Joseph Culp 41:16

read that and I put it in, in my open letter. It's like, Well, Kevin, you said that you're aware that there are many other films and TV shows Marvel material made by other directors or other filmmakers, and other times, but that are regarded as canon. And he said, Don't be surprised if those things couldn't work their way into the multiverse. And so I really take him at his word saying, Well, fantastic for 1994 is, you know, let's make let's say, Yes, make that part of the multiverse,

Jeff Dwoskin 41:47

even. It's just an interesting cameo or something like that. It would be amazing.

Joseph Culp 41:51

Of course, all of us would dig that, that there was some kind of cameo. I have to say, I didn't do the petition. For that reason. I really did it because I think there's something special about the film and mostly on a level of history that it deserves to be seen. But hey, you want to mix it up in the multiverse. I'm there with you.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:13

I agree with you. It deserves its place in history. It deserves its spot on the mantle. I put my VHS on my bookshelf, so it's always there. It's one of those things. It's just it exists. Be nice if it was just embraced for you guys, because I know it must have been such a tease. Right? I mean, there was a trailer you had film threat magazine, Chris Gore had it on the cover of the magazine. There was stuff planned. You had publicity shots. They flew us

Joseph Culp 42:38

to Florida, they flew us to you know, various places. I mean, they spent money. Roger Corman does not spend money on anything. That is what I hear. I still have eight by 10s, you know, that I had designed which were some pretty cool they were black and white. So talk a shot of dark. I

Jeff Dwoskin 42:54

would love one of those. Joseph, I have one of Alex, he sent me one right there. happy to send you I would be honored is amazing. So what do you do it? What's what's going on besides the petition and getting this release? What is Joseph, what are you up to these days? Yes,

Joseph Culp 43:11

well, putting some energy into that. But it's not my main deal at the moment. But it's, it's something I'm passionate about. And I hope everyone hearing the podcast will click that up, you'll hopefully you'll see it in the notes at the end of the podcast. And we'll sign that petition. Because I think like I know, there's over 20,000 fans out there, you know, we could over the next several months gather the that many signers would be awesome. And who knows where that could lead, we can shape our futures. Absolutely, we can make choices and gather strength, especially from the grassroots. I was thinking they say that the only way things ever really changed in the world were by a small group of people and we are that and so I am passionate about doing that and, and being vociferous about it. So and posting it on Facebook and wherever you can post things on Twitter there's a terrific by the way on a plug this new documentary doomed is stellar. It's an amazing piece but it was like a 40 minute piece that's I would say even more of a fan driven piece and it's by a wonderful guidance Xavier Mendoza and he calls it tricked the cast that was tricked into doing the fantastic for any kind of takes it from a different angle about you know a guy who says like you know, what about this movie you know any and he really kind of breaks it down and he goes through it and comments on it as a fan he's like you know, it's pretty darn good actually and I found myself loving this movie and for all these reasons, you know, sure it's cheap and kind of sentimental and all that but the music is great the actors are all terrific and directory does a great job with it. I think it should be released you know and give it some upgrades. Anybody could spend a couple 100 bucks just you know doing a remix and and throwing in some new To effects from after effects or whatever in

Jeff Dwoskin 45:02

AI these days and whatever that Sora thing is, it's come in,

Joseph Culp 45:06

you could literally you could you could redo special effects on this in a day, you know, with AI and of course, I'd be happy to rerecord any Doom stuff or you know, probably with a good good mixer. You know, you can pull all that stuff out, you know, and make it sound really good. That's taking up a little bit of time. Yeah, I'm also doing a film Netflix film called monsters based on the Menendez brothers. Story of film I did just got released called the outlaw posse by Mario van Peebles. It's a Western revisionist history lesson kind of Western. And I play the sheriff in that I have a film coming out indie film coming out called the veteran where I play a Vietnam veteran title role. And meanwhile, I'm doing a lot of screenwriting right. And I've been hired. I don't know if your audience knows this. I'm an actor, but I'm also a filmmaker. And that means I'm a director and a writer. Also got that from dear old dad growing up. And so right now I'm on a job writing a pilot for series doing that right now.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:07

Amazing. Fantastic. I should say. It's fantastic. And

Joseph Culp 46:13

awesome. So pleasure to talk to you a job. And I hope we've covered you know, some interesting territory today. That may be interesting for everyone.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:20

I loved every second of it. I can't thank you enough for hanging out with me.

Joseph Culp 46:24

Absolutely. My pleasure. And share the petition widely.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:29

I've already done it on Twitter. I signed it and I've tweeted it out. Thank you. Well, tweet. I'm trying to do my part.

Joseph Culp 46:34

I'll just say hashtag release. Fantastic board. 94. There we go. That's it. We're gonna break the internet, not on on Facebook, and boom, you're there. Oh, thanks so much. How

Jeff Dwoskin 46:46

amazing was Doctor to Ibn Joseph Hall. He's incredible. I'm so fun to talk to. I loved all the stories he shared about his father. And I loved all of the Fantastic Four stories. It's great to hear from Rebecca, Alex. And now Joseph, you hear it all from different points of view, and kind of be able to put together the full picture from that. You can check out the movie it is on YouTube release. Fantastic. 494 use that hashtag sign the petition. I'll put a link in the show notes. All right. Let's support the original Fantastic Four. Can't Believe It's over already. This is the bleats the first trilogy. Maybe we'll get another one out of it. I have to reach out to people we'll see. Anyway, but this has been awesome. Josef's. Awesome. Thank you again to Joseph called. Thank you again, all of you for coming back week after week means so much to me. And I'll see you next time.

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