#311 Laughing All the Way to the Emmys with Marsha Posner Williams

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Susan, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 311 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be one of the most classic episodes of all time with me today is Marcia Posner Williams two time Emmy Award winner and she's here to tell us stories upon stories from soap Benson nikecourt Hail to the Chief Amen and more. You're gonna love it and it's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds mark Meyers was here last week song historian we dove deep into TV songs from some of your favorite TV classics like B which Leave It to Beaver Gilligan's Island, Mary Tyler more and more. Check that out. But first, check out my conversation with Marcia Posner Williams. We're talking Golden Girls. We're talking soap and all the controversy. You want the scoop? You came into the right place. Enjoy. Alright everyone, I'm excited to introduce you to my next guest. Do time Emmy Award winner retime Golden Globe Award winner over 400 episodes of network television to her credit producer of such classics as so Benson nikecourt. Amen. Hail to the Chief direct sales class. Yes, yes, Queen of the dirty jokes coming at us at 120 words per minute. Welcome to the show. Marsha Posner Williams.

Marsha Posner Williams 2:09

Thank you so much. Hi. Hi. Hi. How are you? So happy to hear I am good for someone my age. Thank you so much. Ah, oh, it's not fun anymore. You know, it's like somebody said, my back goes out more than I do these days. So what can I do if

Jeff Dwoskin 2:25

I'm with Yeah, I always joke if I drop a pen, I'm buying a new pen.

Marsha Posner Williams 2:31

I say my last hope for a smokin hot body is cremation. So you know, it's Oh, man. Oh, man. Alright,

Jeff Dwoskin 2:41

so you been a part of some amazingly classic pieces of television. When I was rattling off shows I forgot to say The Golden Girls before you were working with Susan Harris so tightly I know at the age of 23 for becoming a producer of some of the greatest shows of all time. What drove you from Arizona to Hollywood,

Marsha Posner Williams 3:02

a Ford Maverick. Metaphorically

Jeff Dwoskin 3:05

now literally.

Marsha Posner Williams 3:06

You walked into that line you just walked. I knew when I was a kid that I wanted to work in that business, maybe because I watched a lot of television. But even in the seventh grade, one of the best well known sitcoms at the time was that girl starring Marlo Thomas Little did I know that years later, the first sitcom I ever worked on starred her father, Danny Thomas, and the last sitcom Danny ever starred in before he passed away, I ended up producing. So even in this in grade school, I knew that was the business I wanted to work in going through college and go, I wish I didn't go through but high school college, I just knew. And then I worked in local television and Phoenix. And in those days, the 60s If you're a female that wanted a career was just assumed you wanted to be a secretary and anything else was out of question. So obviously, I didn't want to stay around that attitude. And that's what drove me to LA. That's where that was happening anyway, certainly not Arizona.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:04

I read that one of your ends was that you could type 120 words per minute. I thought it was a big shot. My one of the things my dad, when I was in high school, me and my brother, he said you have to take Typing. Typing is going to be one of the most important things ever know or learn and this is where everyone had computers, right? I thought I was a big shot. I was like, I could do like 40 Some words a minute. You know, I was a guy like I would do the test and stop, get my a and then stop. My brother could type he's faster than me. 120 words. I was like, that's a really incredible. Wow.

Marsha Posner Williams 4:39

Yeah, I actually took a professional test when I was looking for work once and they clocked me at 122 words a minute on the first go round and 118 the second go round. So needless to say, I had a lot of offers for part time work.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:54

Yeah, good. You lowered it to 60 You know, full time,

Marsha Posner Williams 4:58

right? Yeah, yeah, it was new. was awful. But you do what you got to do. But it got it got me in the door. That skill is what got me in the door for the first job.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:07

Oh, your first job is you're typing up dirty jokes. You don't stop it. You'll go blind. Right? Yeah.

Marsha Posner Williams 5:12

So try and read and type 1000s of jokes and two years 1000s And you've retained them. Yeah, I built my sense of humor like nobody's business. Like, tell people don't test me because you lose.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:26

We need to get you and Jackie the joke man, Mart Lane in a room together?

Marsha Posner Williams 5:30

Yeah, something like that. Yeah, I just I can take care of myself just with words. What can I say?

Jeff Dwoskin 5:36

Alright, so then doing all the dirty jokes, and you get recruited to the practice? Danny Thomas's show? Correct. You also produced you have his telethons.

Marsha Posner Williams 5:46

I did Danny Thomas, as you know, founded St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. And I was one of the two producers for his first three telephones but a million stars, which was quite fun.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:57

What was your role? Are you still a secretary at this point with a practice? Practice?

Marsha Posner Williams 6:01

Yes, I was hired to be the secretary for the creator of the show, whose name was Steve Gordon. And they sit and I got called one night by the company. And they said, you know, we don't know you and you don't know us. But we're getting ready to start the second season of the practice. And Steve Gordon, the creators flying in from New York to help pick off the first four episodes and we need someone who can type really fast. And we heard that you could type really fast. So can you start Monday for $200 A week plus overtime, I was so excited called my dad, guess what I've made it, I've made it. I've made it. So my first job was working with Steve Barton, because I could type so fast for four weeks. And then he left and they got rid of the secretary to the executive producer. And they moved me into that job. So four weeks turned into four months. And then the show got canceled. And Tony Thomas, who was producing the show came to me and said, We know you got a layoff notice, because the show got canceled and forget about it. My partner Paul wit and I have formed our own company, and you're coming with us. So when with Thomas Harris was born, he was with Thomas Harris and me

Jeff Dwoskin 7:05

the lesson here so far as make yourself invaluable. And you'll be treated as

Marsha Posner Williams 7:10

you are so right because honestly, when I got hired for four weeks, I thought I don't want to be a secretary. But I'm smart enough to know it. And in college lectures, I tell kids all the time who want to get in this business, the hardest thing to do is get your foot in the door. So do whatever it takes to get your foot in the door on whatever level it is, it doesn't matter. You know, it doesn't last because you either move up or move out or move to the next, whatever. But you've got to start somewhere. So when I got that job, I said, What am I going to do to make them remember me in four weeks? And the answer was simple. spoil them rotten. So when I go in typing 120 words a minute that was it. They didn't want to let me go

Jeff Dwoskin 7:49

and so when that was folks that hired you that became the job so

Marsha Posner Williams 7:54

yes, the first show that would Thomas Harris did was a show called loves me loves me not was Susan day and Ken Gilman we were at 20 Century Fox. I think we had offices there. But the show went up and down and 13 and then soap was born after that you are with so the entire time pilot to the very end and proud of it.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:14

Let's talk about so for me are you turned me on to basically I guess history of so banana episode guide which you are featured in your whole story

Marsha Posner Williams 8:22

apparently that's a big book too isn't it's over 400 pages.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:26

Well, first, let's talk about your relationship with Susan era. You were a Susan Harris's secretary at the beginning, right and a secretary so you're just moving secretary, the Secretary but now you're about to burst. So

Marsha Posner Williams 8:38

I'm so I was her assistant, the first season which was the greatest place to be because she wrote every single episode single handedly all 22, written by Susan Harris. And she would hand write her scenes and then hand me the pages and I would start banging them out in script form. And if she heard me laughing, she would come into the office say which parts funny which parts of me, you know, so I was the first person to read what she wrote me it was just fantastic to be in that position. And then the second year, they promoted me to script supervisor. So now I'm on the stage every day learning about all that. And the weeks that we weren't shooting on stage. We were on hiatus, I would go into post production. I started learning all about that. And then the third season of soap they kicked me back upstairs. Second associate producer and then things just grew from there. Soap

Jeff Dwoskin 9:28

is like one of those. It's an interesting show, right? I mean, it's like we'll probably don't talk about as much as they should. I agree.

Marsha Posner Williams 9:36

And believe it or not yesterday or day before yesterday, somebody sent me an article that one of the main guys on the in the right wing who tried to get some off the air passed away at late 80s. This was a guy who ran an organization called Focus on the Family and they were threatening at the Time The network's they were trying to get everybody to boycott advertisers this show as opposed to just tell watch the show if you don't like it just don't frickin watch the show. If enough people don't watch the show goes off the air. I don't I never like, Who are you to tell anybody what to watch or not watch cheese? To this day? I don't I don't understand. I don't

Jeff Dwoskin 10:26

I would imagine back then, with only three channels, or you know, or so, right. More of a chance someone was gonna watch. So Right. I mean, now, do you think the world we live in today? There's right. I was in channels. So there's 1000 Things you will never know even existed, right? But

Marsha Posner Williams 10:46

it still comes down to just because you think one way, don't tell me what to think you think would you think I think what I think it's like standing in front of a picture of a piece of art. So I was in an Art Institute recently. And they had two black pieces of canvas, probably eight by 10, maybe 11 by 14 hanging on a wall just painted black. said, Excuse me, what? What is the point of this? While some people call that art, and some people like me just laugh out and go you've seriously? Okay, so you hang a banana on the wall and call it art? Right? It's all subjective.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:24

You're right, just don't watch it. I'm a big fan of that point of view. Interesting thing about it that I learned from the book is most of the controversy was just made up. Well,

Marsha Posner Williams 11:33

that's funny, you should say that. Because before the show ever went on the air, people were complaining about it. And to give you a great little insight story. Before the show went on the air. I was working late one night, and the phone rang. I picked it up, I was tired. And this voice on the other end says I just want an address where I can write a letter about this show. And I was a little taken aback by that. But I was tired enough and probably cranky enough at that time of night because I think it was close to nine o'clock. I decided to take the guy on. So I said, Okay, happy to send you an address. But can I ask What are you writing about? Have you seen the show? No, I haven't seen the show. Oh, really? Why not? Well show us an on the area. Is it? Okay, so what are you writing about? And he said, Well, I read an article about this show at Baba blah, blah. And I said, Okay, so what you're telling me is that you want to write a letter based on somebody else's opinion, not yours is what you're telling me. And I talked to this guy for 15 minutes. And at the end, he said, You know what, you're right. I'll wait another week or so before the show's gonna be on here. I'll wait. I'll watch it. I'll make my own opinion. I said, Listen, pal. I don't care if you like the show or don't. But don't you think when you express an opinion, it should actually be your opinion, not somebody else's margin or the when? Exactly. I mean, come on. Isn't that just common sense? I

Jeff Dwoskin 12:55

think a lot of people just follow people blindly and believe what they do. It was interesting in the book, not only was the facts in these Newsweek article, not true or made up apparently the guy claims years later, he had no idea the impact the article even had,

Marsha Posner Williams 13:12

it makes me ill. It really does. I just don't I don't get it. But we prevail for four years. And our audiences that used to come see the show live just loved it loved a loved one. We had many I have a blooper reel on the show. That is frickin hilarious. There's some pretty crazy things that happened. No, it was like shooting more in peace every week. If you remember in those days shows like all in the family. Let's use that as a good example. What how many sets did they have the kitchen and a living room, maybe one other set, we used to have between three and five swing sets a week, which is why we won an Emmy for production design. So we had a series regulars of like 12 people, maybe more, plus guest cast plus extras. It was like doing Warren Piece every week. It was insane. And yet, it ran like clockwork because we had a director at the home who knew his stuff J sandwich. And the scripts were so good that we didn't have to start all over again, like on some shows I've worked on where they say usually you write first draft second draft final draft and you shoot it on other shows. I work that it's first draft, second draft, Final Draft story, first draft. So they just they start all over again. And it was horrible. Get 40 revised pages on shoot day is not a good thing. But you know, soap was just so brilliantly written.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:39

Susan Harris wrote a mod episode where she had an abortion. Correct. I know I was way ahead episode. I didn't know it. Susan Harris.

Marsha Posner Williams 14:49

Yes. Yes. And Susan also created the show was called about a divorced woman. And that was like unheard of. It was played by Lee Grant. Whose daughter Dinah man off became a series semi regular

Jeff Dwoskin 15:03

on so yes, she got shot and killed on so Yes, she did. And she was in Greece

Marsha Posner Williams 15:09

and she was in Greeks. Yeah. Yeah, she's terrific, just terrific.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:14

What was Susan Harris? Like? He kind of self described herself as funnier on paper.

Marsha Posner Williams 15:19

Susan was a very quiet, and she would just come out with things that were so funny. Just, you know, just an everyday talk, which I like to do do myself now. I mean, she's just so brilliant. She was just brilliant. What can I say? You want to be around anything? She writes. She's had a couple of misses, but it doesn't matter because her hits are so big. You know. So Benson and the Golden Girls man doesn't get bigger than that, than all of those. So just joyful to be around all of that. So yeah, she was she was great.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:51

Were you tight with the cast? Catherine Hellman, Richard Mulligan? Do you have memories of working with all of them during the offseason, of

Marsha Posner Williams 15:59

course, I have memories, especially when I was the script supervisor and I was on stage with them every day. The greatest part is that to this day, I'm still wonderful friends with Jay Johnson who played the ventriloquist on so he lives five minutes from me. And I actually got a call this morning from salva scusa, who played the priest on so and I'm still friends with Jimmy Bale, who played the youngest son of the tape family. And I'm thrilled all these years later to have those relationships. And those friendships is just fantastic. Because you know, in this business, and you work together so tightly for so long, whatever it is on a feature, or one hour show or half hour, but the truth is, you're fast friends until a final frame. And then when it's over, it's like Sia, gotta go. Then you go about your life and you never see people again. So it was pretty, pretty great. Talk to

Jeff Dwoskin 16:49

me about Billy Crystal, God, Dallas. I don't mean well, I guess there's two ways we could talk about it. One is the first gay character on TV, but also just from what you understand, Billy Crystal's relationship with being part of this show. I feel like it's always everyone who says Oh, Billy Crystal he was on. So I never Billy Crystal talking about being on. So I mean, I did I did. I have an exhaustive list of every interviews I've done.

Marsha Posner Williams 17:13

But yeah, I know, Billy. And Billy was so great in that role. He were he was just wonderful. And it was difficult, I'm sure to have that role, because of what it was and the time of life that it was. And it was one of the things that people were protesting about that we had an openly gay character on the show. We had a priest who wanted to leave the priesthood, we had adultery, and a sitcom, because I guess none of those things ever happened in real life. So people haha. So people were just protesting and all that, but Billy had a lot to deal with. And he did it beautifully. And brilliantly, I think. And it's funny because just again, recently, I was telling somebody that years ago, maybe 10 years ago, I was in the grocery store. And I ran into Bob Sigrun, who played Billy's lover football player, that first season, if you saw the show, and how funny it was to just run into this Olympic pole vaulter, which is what I were Bob was at the time in many did this role, which I thought was his great having and it was just

Jeff Dwoskin 18:17

great. You mentioned talking to Jay to still talk with Bob.

Marsha Posner Williams 18:21

Yes, Bob is always around. Yes. Chuck and Bob. Yes. Bob is always around. Yeah. Thanks for asking. I'll tell him you asked about him, then

Jeff Dwoskin 18:31

this was a show was just cancelled, kind of just out of nowhere, it gets canceled. Right. I must have been a shock and a heartbreak. Because I imagine after four years, quite a family.

Marsha Posner Williams 18:41

Absolutely. Not only that, but I know that at least one cast member I remember had just bought a house thinking that the show was going to go on. Oh, I hope that works out. But also because it came so abruptly, the show had no ending. We had no chance to do a proper ending, which was too bad. But you know, am I allowed to swear on this podcast? Cuz, you know, when I do lectures to kids, I say, look, the reality is Hollywood will fucking when nobody else will. So there it is, what can I say? Listen, there are no guarantees in his business. Even if you get hired to do whatever a number of episodes the show is, is no guarantee that you're going to keep that job, or all of those episodes are even going to be produced. That's just the reality of the business. And again, as I tell kids, there's nothing you can do about that. So you have to own that reality and then you'll be fine. Is there nepotism in this business? It runs rampant. What can you do about it? Nothing. So once you own that reality, it'll be fine. It's just the way it

Jeff Dwoskin 19:44

is with the controversy around so I know it opened you did it. Yeah,

Marsha Posner Williams 19:50

I hope so. What?

Jeff Dwoskin 19:51

How did the controversy of sustain it over the years, I guess is that fourth year to get suddenly canceled? Probably just through pressure. And I

Marsha Posner Williams 20:00

don't recall exactly I have to read that book that would probably tell us whether the pressure against the advertisers got so intense that it wasn't worth it for ABC to continue, maybe. But you know what, at the end of the day, we had 95 episodes for retrospectives, which were the first one was an hour, the others were 90 minutes. It was just a joyful project to be a part of it was, as you know, it was and is the most controversial sitcom in the history of sitcoms to this day, whatever all my family went through and their their controversy, we went through it. And then Nora, you

Jeff Dwoskin 20:38

feel like Suzanne just kept leaning into it? Because she didn't pull back? No,

Marsha Posner Williams 20:42

I mean, we had to negotiate. First of all, you probably are familiar with the term standards and practices, which is the sensor on a show. So on those days, I don't know how it works these days. But in those days, you give a draft to the network and a copy of it goes to the standards and practices guide who says okay, see on page 12, when you say the character says go to hell, you can't say that, as an example, anybody who's watching or listening to this, who knows the show? So there was a very famous scene. And I know it's famous because a lot of drag X used to do it in their clubs, where the two mothers and two daughters are sitting around the kitchen table talking about their sex life. And one of them says, Oh, Mom, you're not just fidgety, whatever the word was. She said, You're just horny. And the network said, you can't say horny. You cannot say that word. So you negotiate. They negotiate it? Okay, we'll give you we'll take out this damn, we'll take out this hell, we did this. And we'll keep the word. And we kept the word. So Susan was extremely proactive in dealing and all that. Because these are her words that she's fighting for. And rightfully so. That's a great story. Oh, by the way, speaking of that, there was a scene in soap in the very beginning, where here's a picture of police booking desk, okay, and the scene opens up and there's a sergeant, a police officer standing behind the booking desk, and there's an obvious poker standing from the desk. And the police officer says, Come on bad that, you know, it's illegal. And the hooker says, oh, please illegal. I told him he could go around the world for $100. I'm a travel agent for God's sakes. Okay. Well, that scene where he was written with that, we will never get away with that. If you know what around the world means in the sex world, right? We thought we'll never get away with that. But we want to hear the note that the guy's going to give us about that line. Well, the notes come back, and there's no reference to that line. So we'll look at each other like, what, what do you mean? Okay, well, he didn't make reference to it. So and we keep rehearsing with it, rehearsing it, we go to shoot the show, and the guy is there. Okay, because he, we shot each episode twice, shoot it at five o'clock with an audience, then let the audience go. And while we bring in a new audience to shoot the later show, we give the cast notes and we feed everybody. Okay? We shoot the first show, we do that scene. He's right there. No note, okay. He leaves. We shoot the second show. We do that scene with that line. And then we let the audience go. And we said, are we sure he's not here? Yes, he's definitely gone. We locked the stage door, and we reshot that scene with an alternative line because we figure when the network sees the rough cut, they're gonna hand it to us, right? They're gonna go crazy. Well, guess what? Nobody ever said a word. So the show this a scene aired the way we originally intended to. And then we got the nod and love that story.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:53

Who eventually ratted you out? Oh,

Marsha Posner Williams 23:55

maybe somebody in the public. Somebody else that that? I don't know. It doesn't matter. Because that's not the good part of the story.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:03

I just get it. Just great, though. One of those things to rat it out. You have to admit, you know what it means? Well, we had taught us really well. I'm just saying like you can't say that. Oh, did you know? Yeah.

Marsha Posner Williams 24:18

Can I do good or probably have no idea what that line meant? So is somebody else laughing about like, Oh, my God, you got away with it. So that was a great, I love that story.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:30

That is a great story.

Marsha Posner Williams 24:32

What else do you wanna know? Well,

Jeff Dwoskin 24:33

let's get back to your story. Marcia. So from here, do you go to nikecourt? Producer nikecourt. Now

Marsha Posner Williams 24:39

it's so turned into Benson. Okay. So

Jeff Dwoskin 24:41

you went to Benson? Okay.

Marsha Posner Williams 24:43

I did the first two seasons of Benson and then I went to nikecourt per year for a season and then I came back.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:49

Sorry to interrupt my conversation with Marsha. Well, we have to take a quick break. I do want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support this by answers. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep lights on. And now back to my conversation with Marsha Posner Williams. We're going to talk Benson, talk to me about working on Benson. Oh,

Marsha Posner Williams 25:13

I didn't have a great story about Benson. So, Benson I loved working on Benson because I love Robert DRM. And I love DD con. And I just love the cast, they were just there was just great. They can tell you a funny story. We were in Kinkos, whatever year it was, because I did the first second and seventh year, I didn't do the other thing. I think it was a second year, my job because of who the director was the days that we were on camera, which was two days a week and rehearsal day and then a shoot day, part of my job was to be in the booth in the in the control room, just in case the director needed something or went off the rails or whatever, whatever. So I loved it. I loved being in the booth, we go through this day of rehearsal, and now we're gonna have a run through at the end of the day in wardrobe. Okay, so hadn't run throughs as I'm sure you know, everybody's in the booth, the writers, writers are in the booth, executive producers. And we're all sitting there watching all the monitors, right. So they rehearse a scene. And at the end of the scene, the director says, Okay, cut, you know, we're moving on wardrobe change. So on the monitors, we see the cameras change, you know, moving to the next set, and a few moments later. Now mind you, keep in mind, everybody on stage, all the camera, and audio people and stage managers all had headphones on so they could hear the director, right. Okay, DD con and Robert keum walk into the set for the next scene. And while they're waiting for that other cast members, they start kind of physically horsing around with each other. And somehow or another DD con gets her wire hearing, which is shaped like this caught in Bob's knit tie right here. So DVS head is right here. And she's trying to extricate herself from this from Bob's tie, and they're going back and forth with each other and we're seeing this on camera. And the director says, Why I wish that we were recording we had cameras on I mean, you know that we were at we were shooting this because this would be so funny for the blooper reel, and this director was very straight and not a nice guy. So he says, Boy, you know, be this would be so great if we were shooting this for the blooper if we have this for the blooper reel. Then in the back row, this voice T Who could that thing in a loud enough voice that everybody on headset heard it on the floor? Said you know that reminds me of the time my boyfriend got his braces potted my IUD. Well, the whole booth fell apart laughing except for this director. And he turned his chair around his face was beet red. And he looked at me and he said, I can't believe I just heard you say that. Okay. Meanwhile, I think I'm the funniest person on the planet at that moment. Right. Okay, cut to the next day. I go back in the booth. There's nobody there. I've done the first one there. The next one to walk into the booth is this director and he stops short when he sees me. And he says, Well, Ms. Posner, what sexual perversion do you have for us today? And I said, funny you should ask because just last night, I perfected the back one and a half over the bed post mountain the layout position degree of difficulty 9.8 What did you do and even talk to me the rest of the day.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:31

You didn't know what he was messing with.

Marsha Posner Williams 28:32

That's right. Good story, though. Right.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:35

That's a great story. It's funny because that's an was fun, Benzema. That's it was fun. James Nobo played the governor. Yeah, I

Marsha Posner Williams 28:42

loved him. He was like the nicest guy, right? This guy? Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:47

What was funny about that was I was watching Archie there was an Archie movie and he was the bad guy. And it was just like, This guy's not a bad guy.

Marsha Posner Williams 28:54

I know. I can't even picture that.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:57

He's trying to be a bad guy.

Marsha Posner Williams 28:59

I think he made an appearance on The Golden Girls as well. If I'm not mistaken. I think

Jeff Dwoskin 29:04

dudes in Harris use a lot of people in and out

Marsha Posner Williams 29:08

yeah, when you like an actor, you want to use them because you trust them and you can depend on them. And that's wonderful. Right? It's

Jeff Dwoskin 29:16

great. You see that a lot with people that they'll dynasty it's like Susan Harris has

Marsha Posner Williams 29:21

I remember producing a pilot for 20th Century Fox and we hired this actor to play the lead and it's a pilot you know so excited he's unknown so excited to get the lead comes in rehearses and then day three is fired. Oops. That happens. Guarantees no

Jeff Dwoskin 29:36

guarantees Dinah man off. So DD con, and then any more pink ladies that you've worked with it

Marsha Posner Williams 29:44

ladies. What does that mean Jeff? Screens? Oh, yeah, no, no, but I did see Dinah at the Golden Girls Convention, which was fun to have a reunion with her there in Chicago in 2020. That was Wonderful. And then she was at Del Sol The Golden Girls convention last year in Chicago. She was great to see her. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:07

All right. So from Benson, move on to nikecourt. But you go from nikecourt. And then you go back to Ben said, which is more normal, which is because when we talk about you being at so from episode one to the ad, isn't necessarily normal for somebody,

Marsha Posner Williams 30:23

no, no. So after nikecourt, I went back to do a show for with Thomas Harris that Susan also created, called Hail to the Chief held of achieve was, I guess, extremely controversial as well, because ABC advertised this show as the show that would offend everybody. And I guess it did, but I have to tell you, he went up and down in seven episodes. It was seven of the funniest episodes I've ever worked on. And it was just like soap in the way that like 12 regulars, a lot of swing sets, worn piece every week. But Matt show is funny with Patty Duke Ted Bessell, Dick, Sean Murray, Hamilton, Quinn Cummings, just fantastic people.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:10

What was supposed to be offensive about it having a woman as president? I mean, maybe.

Marsha Posner Williams 31:19

I mean, well, the President's husband was having an affair on the show. And they were seeing like, I can't help but I have to tell stories. So was it the first episode for the second episode, we get ready to shoot the show and the executive in charge of production comes to me and says Marsha, you're not gonna believe it. But sitting in the front row, the audience are like eight nuns and full habit. I don't think they know what they're here for. You gotta tell on Delete. As annoying me as I my job. I'm not doing it. I don't know anything about nuns and habits. I know nothing about it. So that's on Yoobao. So he went and talked to them and said, I don't know if you know what this show is, but I want to give you the chance to leave now. And they did they actually got well, here's what they missed. In the first scene. It opens up in one of the bedrooms in the White House. And there's a big bed with a big throw something on top. And obviously there are people moving about underneath the covers. And then all of a sudden, a young girl pops up her head completely inherited shoveled, and then a young Latino man, boy, you know, her age pops up his head, all this shovel, he says to her, so how was it? And she says, Well, it was everything I had hoped for. It was everything that I had wanted. It was everything that I hadn't expected. Only faster. Okay, so that was the opening scene.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:45

That's how you write a two minute joke there. Boom. That's, that's hilarious.

Marsha Posner Williams 32:49

Yeah, I'm telling you. Thank goodness. I think I have them all on DVD goes episodes because they're just price. Are they available anywhere? I have no clue but they are. One is funnier than the next. Who was the guy in Animal House that played the principle member John, remember the horse was put on the horse was in his office and well, yeah. Anyway, he was in the show. We played a general it was just so funny. He was just what I say. It was just hilarious on Vernon, John Byrne and thank you very much. That was him. Thank you to some of these themes. We just hilarious. How long were you at

Jeff Dwoskin 33:26

nikecourt for one once season one season? Yeah, like an early season.

Marsha Posner Williams 33:30

Second,

Jeff Dwoskin 33:32

that was one of my favorite shows. nikecourt I loved Harry Anderson. You know, in the early days, Salma diamond. I know it was like they couldn't Yeah, it was like tragic. The way bailiffs were passing away Richard

Marsha Posner Williams 33:43

Maul. Who was the original bailiff passed away? I think within five last five years. Yeah. Not too long ago. Yeah, it was the tallest show I ever. Because the Harry Anderson Richard Moll on Java cat and we're all like six, three and above. And all these guys like, okay, little astounded that they brought my cord back after all these years. Like what?

Jeff Dwoskin 34:05

I started to watch it and then I stopped I wasn't that I didn't like it. It's just I would rather than just come up with another show. Thank you. That is maybe a court room. Whatever. Right? You know, you can say inspired by or something like that. But it's like, I love St. John Laura cat. Don't get me wrong. My memories of the show are great. It's a good idea. But it's like

Marsha Posner Williams 34:29

I'm totally with you. Like is that the best you can do? Rarely. I know that networks are, I believe on their way out. Or they're I don't know there's just so much competition now that like you said one and done. Watch it once. And that's it. Now I'm moving on to many other choices now. Yeah, you gotta you gotta catch someone. Well, that's why when and people, even people in the business, or I guess new don't understand on a series. If you come out of the gate the first time You're on the air, and you get these enormous ratings. It's meaningless. What is meaningful is week three. So that's exactly what you're saying is people will love it and keep watching for week three, or they hate it and nobody watches and you're dead by week three. I've seen it happen. It's kind of

Jeff Dwoskin 35:18

one of those weird things right? Where it's like, it's sometimes it does take time to build the world. Absolutely. But it still has to be good enough. So I told my wife, she was thinking about watching Game of Thrones and like, I think Game of Thrones, episode one is one of the best first episodes of any show I've ever seen. You don't like it? Just stop. You're not gonna like it. I go, but if you like it, then walk a lot. Right?

Marsha Posner Williams 35:43

Buckle up. It's so funny. You mentioned Drexels class because I haven't thought about that. And oh, since the day it ended, but

Jeff Dwoskin 35:50

wow. Well, Dabney Coleman. I always loved as an actor, but I feel like he never There was never a TV show that I think clicked with Dabney Coleman, that I can remember, Bill.

Marsha Posner Williams 36:01

Bell was very critically acclaimed show. And but Drexels class is just not a Dabney Coleman vehicle. What a character he was, though.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:13

I was working with Sherman Hemsley and Amen. Oh,

Marsha Posner Williams 36:17

I love Charmin. He was great. The whole cast I loved working with that cast. I did the third season of Amen. Picture. There were just two seasons obviously, behind me that had already happened. I was the fifth person in the job, because the executive producer was someone not to be reckoned with. Yeah, he went through people like water. So it was my turn in the barrel. That third season was the only time I had to keep a bottle of booze in my desk. That's how bad it was at times. But you do what you gotta do. And I lasted 22 episodes with dignity because I knew how to handle the guy. I'm a typical female that way in some respects, and I love the cast. I love my staff. We

Jeff Dwoskin 36:59

don't mess it you know, mess with Marsha. Let's talk about the Golden Girls. So the Golden Girls is your fourth Susan Harris show. Is that your last it? Was there any other ones or that was it?

Marsha Posner Williams 37:08

I did the pilot of I'm a big girl now which she was up and down in a season or two. I don't remember but I think I did the pilot that was with Diana Canova. And then then there are with Thomas shows, but not with Thomas Harris shows that I also worked on. It's a living condo, Mama's Boy, those are all with Thomas shows. And then the one Danny Thomas did one big family. I did all those as well with and Thomas.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:32

Amazing. Give me some Golden Girls stories that aren't about be Arthur. Not like that a boy. Oh, yeah, that's that's all of those old news. I want to talk to me about Estelle Getty.

Marsha Posner Williams 37:44

So when Estelle first came to the show, she was supposed to just be a guest star. And you know, there was five people originally in the original cast that we shot, right. So a male Yeah, housekeeper. Right. Yeah, a gay house boy. But after they shot the pilot, you know, the J sandwich. The director got together with the executives and said, You know what, you know, he's a nice guy, and he didn't do anything wrong. But honestly, the women are so strong. What do we need him for? And I don't normally feel sorry for actors. But I felt sorry for that guy. Because he didn't do anything wrong. He was fine and missed out on millions of dollars, literally in read just in rerun money. And also, one funny story was that Bea Arthur called my house one day to talk to my husband. She said, Wayne, I need you to come over to my house because I got a new car with a cassette player doesn't work on my car. cassette. Right. Okay, be I'll be over as though Wang goes to her house. And she had a BMW was something something, something with an eye at the end of it. And you sit in the car together? And he says, Okay, well show me what the problem is. So she takes the cassette, she goes to put it in nothing. So Elaine says, well, let's turn the car on first. Yeah, and so that was that. And then she's she just gave him look, you know, like, Okay, you're done. Left? Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 39:05

I know that feeling. I spent a whole day on with texts of war ones. And I was like, Oh, just wasn't plugged in.

Marsha Posner Williams 39:11

Oh, my God. I know that feeling

Jeff Dwoskin 39:16

where it's just it's, it's the most obvious thing. Yeah,

Marsha Posner Williams 39:20

that's it's nice that you admit to that, though, really? In public. That's good.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:24

I'll go all in and say I ran out of gas at the end of my driveway once I

Marsha Posner Williams 39:31

was done. It can't be It can't be. It was fun to work on that show because we knew so quickly in the show was going to be a monster hit. Nobody predicted it, but it just happened organically. You know, it's fun to work on a hit show got me as a guest. As a result, I co authored a stupid little humor book called How to get even with your ex. And it literally was a joke book of one liners that I wrote with a guy coincidentally had been married times, but his motto was, look, divorce is good. Every divorce is a murder that didn't happen. So it's all how you look at it, right? But it wasn't about ex husband or wife who was about ex anything girlfriend and auto mechanic, hairdresser and lawyer, whatever. He was just a stupid one liner book. And as a result of being on the Golden Girls that the time the book came out, I was a he and I were a guest on today's show, and also things like that. And then I did like 50 Plus radio interviews, which was much more fun than doing the Today Show promoted and talk about it and have people share their how to get even with their hexes experiences, which was quite shocking, I must admit, at times saw the show the show was fun, the high remember, I drove me home one night, because she got a little too much to drink. And they took the keys away from her I called Wayne and I said, Red Alert, Red Alert. I'm driving be home in her car. So you gotta meet me at her house. And I drove down Sunset Boulevard. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm sitting next to a mod. I used to watch Maude, all the time she's sitting right next to me in the car. This is like, amazing. So even then, which was not the end of my career, certainly I still had another like 10 years to go. But even in those days, I was like gobsmacked by standing on the stage with 300 people in the audience and going, oh my god, I'm a part of this and making this happen. it thrills me to this day to realize that when those ladies, when that red light went on the camera, they were just the consummate professionals. Estelle was very scared at the beginning, because she came from Broadway, which meant you do the same lines every day over and over and over and over and over and over. In the sitcom world. You read it on Monday, 50 pages. You shoot it on Friday, five days later on Monday, you read a new 50 pages. She was very, very scared. Okay. But as we know, turned out, okay. Now unfortunately, by the time I was there for the first three seasons, and towards the end, she was not doing well with her lines, meaning she had lines written in that set everywhere. Her lines were written everywhere in that set. And way. Oh, who cares? And as somebody wants joke that I just hold on, I heard this line, her memory wasn't so good. But her Viet her vision was laser sharp to see those lines anywhere, and then by the time I left, we were doing cue cards for her. Okay, so that's what you do now. So I am just glad that the show will became as iconic. Do you know that next year is the 40th anniversary of that show? 40

Jeff Dwoskin 42:34

years? Hard to believe?

Marsha Posner Williams 42:35

When did that happen? I thought I was like 12 When I did that show tease?

Jeff Dwoskin 42:40

I was reading a meme? Is it like Back to the Future happened today? Marty would go back to 1994. Right? What you've worked on some hands down the most classic shows ever. Yeah. Iconic, iconic shows ever? What are one or one of your favorite shows that you've worked on? The people that we haven't talked about yet? But like, what's the one that is like, this was so amazing. And I just can't believe it just didn't blossom to the amazing thing it should have, you know, because I mean, it just happens.

Marsha Posner Williams 43:12

sure that that happens. I my first love will always be so for so many reasons. Always. And I wish I hadn't ended I wish I had gone at least another season. So we could have no wrap things up. I can tell you that there was a show that I did that. I'm not going to tell you the name of it. But it was not a with Thomas Harris show. The pilot script was so funny that fox that was only two years old at the time, that's how long ago I'm talking. Fox said forget shooting a pilot, you're on the air for 13. That's how funny this pilot script was. Okay, I get a call that the executive producer wants me to produce the show. Good. I'm excited cuz I love this guy. And I know the script is the script was just off the charts. Great. So we start casting the pilot for this lead and the lead. I will tell you should have been 50, at least 50 years old or more, even 60 For what the role was. And we start reading people were reading so many people. And the network calls us and says no, you have to cast so and so in the role, who was a comedian in his 20s. We said no, no, no, this is completely wrong. And we kept casting we read 300 people for this bar. We could have cast George Segal, Jerry Orbach, okay from Law and Order great actors of that age we had in our sights, and the network said, no, no, no, you've got to use this guy. Why? Because well, we have them under contract and if we don't put them on a show by September, we have to pay him for doing nothing. That's the mindset of these people. So what happened within four episodes, each episode being as funny as the for First, we knew we were dead. Because even though he was a wonderful person to work with, and joy to work with, he was so wrong for the show that we were dead in the water. I always felt terrible about that. But that's why I don't like working with the network's at the studios because they make decisions like that.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:17

That story sort of does dine on the fact that when magic does happen, and when all the pieces do come together, how magical that is that how important casting is, with the script with everything.

Marsha Posner Williams 45:31

And it's not easy is not easy. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people hired and then fired higher than fired as actors, whether it's a lead role, a guest star role, it's terrible. But understand this, when you audition somebody and I'm going back to the days when you were auditioning in person, or even forget this tape stuff, but you're in a conference room, or you're in an office and somebody comes in to read for you, you are never going to see them in that atmosphere again. So they get on stage, if you hire them, it could be completely different for them when they walk onto a 14,000 square foot stage with four cameras in their face. And things can happen. And I've seen you know, I saw it happen over and over and over again. They couldn't handle it. And all of a sudden that performance you saw on that closed area of a conference room or an office never came through again. unfortunate, but Oh, well. Next, as I said when I was single

Jeff Dwoskin 46:28

so many great stories. Oh, tip of the iceberg. I have to have you back because I appreciate you spending all this time with me. Oh, I

Marsha Posner Williams 46:36

love it. I love talking about these shells.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:39

Do you have a website? Where did you hang out online?

Marsha Posner Williams 46:42

No. I mean, I'm not I'm I'm on Facebook, but I rarely post anything but I mostly troll for old boyfriends, you know, but I can't keep up with some people just to see what they're doing. But um, no, I don't.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:54

All right. Well, I guess everyone this is podcast, as this is how you know everything.

Marsha Posner Williams 47:01

Hi. So appreciate you reaching out. I really do because it's been joyful for me. Seriously.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:07

All right. How amazing was Marshall Posner Williams. I know so many great stories can't believe it just flew by interviews over it can only be one thing I know the episode is over. I can't believe it went by so fast. Another huge thank you to Marsha Posner Williams are hanging out with us sharing all those great stories. And a huge thank you to all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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