#309 Sea Monsters and a Family Affair with Johnny Whitaker

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Jody, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get this show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 309 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be the most classic episode in the history of classic compensations. My guest today is none other than Johnny Whittaker. That's right. Family Affair. Tom Sawyer, Sigmund in the sea monsters. Oh, so much. And that's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds. Stan Zimmerman was here last week, we talked all about his book, his time writing for The Golden Girls and Gilmore Girls. Tons of great stories await you there. But tons of great stories await you right now. We're going deep with Johnny Whitaker. Enjoy. All right, everyone. I'm excited to introduce my next guest rather showbiz icon, writer, director teacher loved him is Tom Sawyer, John and Sigmund and the sea monsters course. Jody Davis on family affair. Please welcome to the show. Johnny Whitaker. Hello, hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. I thought we could start out by doing a little duet of love and ain't easy. Love.

Johnny Whitaker 1:55

It ain't easy. The way that you tease me you say you will and then you won't. First you do and then you don't know. Loving a boy. I remember that. Goodness.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:13

So lucky. Yeah. Johnny Whitaker.

Johnny Whitaker 2:15

Actually, I have playing in the background all the time.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:20

Do you have any of those original LPS

Johnny Whitaker 2:22

somewhere? I have a bedroom that is just chock full of old memorabilia. And when somebody asks me about it, I run in there and I need to get it organized. It's not very well organized. Yes. And then did you know that if you have Alexa or Amazon you can get and have a hold on just second. Alexa play Johnny Whitaker friends. I couldn't find that on Amazon music. Alexa, play brands by Johnny Whitaker. Here's friends with Johnny Whitaker on Amazon music. Gumbo. There you go.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:06

There you go. That is That is awesome. Nothing like technology to help make your day.

Johnny Whitaker 3:11

I just got my last bill for my sag AFTRA dues. I'm all for the sag strike, because I think we need to make sure that the producers recognize that they just can't take advantage of us as I was very much taken advantage of. But I called friend rushers office and said, I'm not paying my bill until somebody get back to me, regarding a complaint that I've had for a year and a half, Fran Drescher secretary called me back and said, Well, you know, I don't take care of that. But I will look into it. And I said, Well, I appreciate that, you know, I've been a member of sag AFTRA longer than you've been alive. I just would like to know that my union is doing something for my, you know, I said, What does my union dues go for? And I said, it pays your bills, and it pays a lot of different things. And if it's taken two years, or a year and a half to get information back, that's not acceptable. I understand. We were in COVID. And there was, you know, time, so I understand that, but I didn't pay my bill for a while, and then I Okay, I'm going to pay it little by little by little. And each time that I get information back, I'm going to pay a little bit more, just until because I'm not gonna give them at all anyway. So they finally nobody got back to me, nobody's done anything. Not that my 200 bucks means anything to the Union, but it's just the fact that if they're not working for me, why should I pay my dues? And so I'm hoping that something will happen.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:53

Well, I hope they get back to you. How did things go right for you, based on what you mentioned, when you were younger? well before the Coogan laws are

Johnny Whitaker 5:01

no, no, no, no. My main concern is that I was quite prolific as a child actor, but of course, family affair. And 130 127 episodes I think the Coogan has nothing to do with sag AFTRA that has to do with the state of California. And actually Paul Peterson, myself, and Jeanne Russell, who was Margaret in Dennis the Menace, the three of us. Well, I know, I worked for 12 years on the young performers committee for Screen Actors Guild and AFTRA. At the time, they were two separate unions, making sure that we got what is now the 2000 law. So 23 years ago, which made it so that anytime a child works in entertainment, in the state of California, they must get a work permit, if they're under 16 years old. Before when I was it was under 18. With that, in the past, since Jackie Coogan, which was like I, you know, look it up and then put it in your text there. I think it was like 1940, or something that she was in the time of, I mean, the silent movies, and he had made close to a million dollars, and never saw a sense of it as an adult because his parents absconded and took it all away. So the law was changed so that anyone under a contract, or a long term contract in entertainment, but it was basically for movies and television, that they would go before a judge and the judge would give you he would make sure that a certain percentage of the child's income was set aside until the child turned 18. And so most all the other children who were in long term contracts like Disney contracts or MGM contracts or series regular contracts. We went before a judge and the judge would then grant us or the producers would be obliged to take a certain percentage of our gross income and put it into a special Coogan account. For me. I did family affair and Sigmund in the sea monsters as far as a series regular, but I did for Walt Disney movies. I did the movie Tom Sawyer, the Russians are coming the Russians are coming, lots of television guest starring or guest roles, and none of that money and any of the commercials that I did. And I also had a line of clothing that I went around the country doing fashion shows and did commercials for those and went all over the country. I didn't see a cent of anything but family affair and Sigmund in the sea monsters in 2000, because of the work that Jeanne Russell, Paul Peterson, myself and some others, but Jeanne, and Paul and myself, had been working. Like I said, I know for me, it was a minimum of 12 years with the young performers committee. And it culminated in 2000 that we got the law in California change because we are a democratic republic. Each state has its own laws regarding child labor laws, and Paul Peterson and a minor consideration, which is an organization that he began, of which I am a part that he has gone all over the country, making sure to change child labor laws, I was only active in the California laws. And what we did in 2000 Was any child from a an extra to A star will have a minimum of 15% of his gross income, put into a Coogan account, and the parents have no way to touch that nobody else can touch that, except the child when the child turns 18. And when the child turns 18, then he or she can get those funds.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:30

1939 By the way, sag

Johnny Whitaker 9:32

AFTRA had nothing to do with it, except that they were the union behind making sure that we got those got the rules and laws updated and changed.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:44

How much work do you do these days to help protect younger actors?

Johnny Whitaker 9:50

Not as much as I used to? I do work with Paul and we have an online Facebook page called out Next child actors x C A. And you have to be invited by another child actor. We also it's kind of a break off of the minor consideration. Whenever somebody has trouble or going through difficult times with being an actor or a child actor or somebody is unemployed or unemployable. Also, myself, I am a certified addiction treatment counselor, and I've been doing that for 20 years. And so if somebody has a drug or alcohol problem they know to contact me or others know to contact me to help younger performers or current or current adults that were Former child actors so that I've been working with more than current child actors. Actually, I did Salt Lake City fan X. And Brian, what was the young girl's name that was the the Disney star that we met in Salt Lake Payton list. Anyway, she's a big Disney star, I guess. I mean, I've seen her if I've my best friend, roommate and CO writer. He loves Disney. And if I'm passing through and I see it on all budget, and Peyton was on a couple of different shows, anyway, Jesse,

Jeff Dwoskin 11:17

she was on Jet. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. My kids watch. I watch that all the time. Yeah, yes. Anyway, oh, and she's on Cobra Kai now. Oh, really? She's a badass on Cobra Kai. Very

Johnny Whitaker 11:28

cool. Anyway, so I met her and she's may be 26. And I had told her what I had done. And she goes, Wow, you are the one who was injured. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I said, Well, glad to be of service. But yeah, we got those laws changed so that parents could not take advantage of their children. And I don't believe I mean, my parents didn't necessarily take advantage of me. I was one of eight children. So I I was a second or third inkwell. I was first income earner because after family affair began, I started making twice and then three times more than my father was making as a full time school teacher for LA City Schools. And when he finished working, he may have been making 38,000 a year. And when I did for Walt Disney movies, I was making 60 grand that year, just in Disney movies, which didn't include my residuals from Family Affair and residuals from other things that were coming in.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:38

Is it a lot of pressure? Could you feel the pressure at the time like that necessary the concept of maybe that you were making more than your father at that time,

Johnny Whitaker 12:46

I had no idea that I was I mean, I knew that I was making money. But the only time I ever saw any money was During the hiatus. And that's when we're not working. Because as actors, we were allowed to go to unemployment. And at that time, when you would go into unemployment, your mom, my mom would fill out the paperwork, I'd have to sign it. And then she'd sign under it because I was a minor. And then we give the thing that they would put in these great big computers, of course, and they had given me the money in cash. And so I saw $100 pass, but I think it was 124 Every two weeks that I was making. And $120 My mom said, Here's five. Go get yourself something that was the only time that I saw any money, any cash until I started realizing at about 1516 Wait a minute, where's all this money going? And then I do have a story. When I was doing the for Walt Disney movies. They were filming, not filming. Sorry. They were creating all of Walt Disney Worlds, different objects and things that they would prepare and then send off to Disney World because it had not yet they didn't have everything that they do now of course, but I remember specifically, they had the not Buddha, but it's a female goddess that they have on the Jungle Cruise. And that has all these vines all over it. And anyway, the original or the original is in Disneyland. That's the original original, but they made a similar statue. The artists that was doing it let us come in and Scott Colden I think it was Scott that we were doing mystery in Dracula's castle, which actually was my last so it couldn't have been the last one. What we would do is we would come to Disney Studios. Oh Meet before are a couple of weeks before the beginning of filming, so that we didn't have to have all of our schooling on the set. Because we are California students, we have to have a minimum of three hours on the set of schooling. And most of the time, that's not a problem. But if it is a strong role that Scott and I had, or Jodie Foster, and I had in Napoleon, and Samantha, while they were making, we would go to the, for this guy, and you know, watch him carve and do whatever he was doing. He said, Hey, Johnny, you know that Disney is giving one for one stock options. And I said, Lord, for stock option. He says, Well, Disney makes their money on movies, and television, and Disney Land in what's going to be Disney World. And all of those kinds of projects, and other people can invest or put money into Disney. And if they make money, you can make money if they make a good amount of money. And I said, that sounds interesting. And so what Disney is doing is you buy stock, meaning you put faith and trust in Disney by giving them money for the work that you're doing. And now if you're a Disney employee, Disney is giving one for one stock options. So you know, you put in $100, Disney will put in $100. So you have $200 in Disney stock options or whatever. I went to my parents and I said, I forget what his name is Bill, Bob, whatever said that is nice giving one for one stock options. I figured that I'm making about $15,000 per feature. Why don't we put in half of the money from one of the movies. And Disney will match that with that same amount. At the time 1971, Disney stock was going for 99 cents a share had I given half of that which would be $7,500, I would be getting 7500 shares of Disney stock for a total of 15,000 shares of 1971. Disney stock, you know how much that would be worth today,

Jeff Dwoskin 17:31

I give a zillion million billion

Johnny Whitaker 17:35

$50 million. I would not have to worry about anything, even if I sold off half of it and didn't really spend a lot. And my parents put all of the money into because my father and my not my father, my uncle, my two uncles were New York Life insurance salesman. So instead of putting into stock, they put all my money into insurance, which anyway, we won't talk about that. But other than that, that was just one of the things that looking back on

Jeff Dwoskin 18:11

it. It's one of those things like it's probably something best not to think about a lot.

Johnny Whitaker 18:15

Yeah, what it could have should have. Yeah, what it go shoot on yourself.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:19

It could easily have not gone that way as well. Right? And so well,

Johnny Whitaker 18:23

and my parents said, we don't gamble with our money. I remember one time, our family was driving to Utah, and we always drive through Las Vegas, of course, and my dad put $5 in the nickel slots, and was playing what 20 times five is, you know, 100 nickels, so he was doing it and didn't get anything. Dad straw. You know, he's so I just want to show you children that gambling never pays. And you know, he just put money in and nothing and nothing. And he got Oh, he made two. And so you know, he would put three and then four. Anyway, put in the last nickel and he pulled it and he says see kids. That's what happens when you gamble. We lost $5 And then all of a sudden we made $300 backfired on pops.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:29

He was a nickel away from solid point. You went too far. Exactly. Oh, that is so funny. And now if you had invested that $300 into Disney. Where would we be now?

Johnny Whitaker 19:41

Well, we went out to dinner that night to a nice restaurant. All 10 of us.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:46

Amazing. Yeah, cuz even like when you said you were getting $5 and then early 70s $5 was a windfall, right? I mean, it was probably still I mean I call and stuff

Johnny Whitaker 19:56

like that. I mean, yeah. So so you know nickel or dime You had the Five and Dime right but you're not you're not old enough to remember the five and dime are you

Jeff Dwoskin 20:06

know, probably not. I'm old but not maybe not battled So, but I've heard of it. Alright, so you're almost a Disney bazillionaire that run up movies came after family fair, right? You also though in this timeframe work with Steven Spielberg?

Johnny Whitaker 20:24

Yes I did. I did his second movie of the week, the first movie of the week was dual, which got tons of acclaim. And then the second film was called something evil, something evil. My parents weren't sure they were going to have me do it. My agent put my name in. And, you know, they said he's this new up and coming director who just did a really big important thing, and I think you should do it. And in it, it was one year, or about a year and a half before, I guess two years. Anyway, I'm not exactly sure. I gotta get my timeframes, right. I'm writing my memoirs. And so I've got this whole spreadsheet of dates and times and so that I can make sure that I'm telling the truth when we did something evil. Anyway, a couple of years later, or a year and a half later, Linda Blair would get an Academy Award nomination and would get a Golden Globe when for her role is Reagan in the original exorcist. And this role that I was playing was a child possessed and I wasn't the star was gonna say Ellen Burstyn, but that Ellen Burstyn was the mother and she played my mother in a two or three parter on Gunsmoke. Okay, this was Sandy Dennis, who played my mother, Sandy, Dennis thought that she was becoming possessed. As you look, it wasn't Sandy Dennis the mom, but it was the little boy. And he was playing with frogs. And there was this bubbling goo that was saying, Mom. And anyway, it was me. And at the end, I'm playing this boy who was possessed and I have read contact lenses in and tip. But it was lots of fun. I remember that. Steven Spielberg was the first director that I ever worked with that also worked the camera. And so for this one scene, he wanted me to hold on to his shoulders while he held on to the camera looking at me, and it was just, you know, a super close up, and it's supposed to be my mother and I having a fight in the grape arbor. Anyway, she grabs me and I'm sorry. But he was filming it. And this is prior to having body cam what he called those steady CanSat. steadicam. So he just had it on his shoulders, and then it looked pretty good, but it's really kind of eerie, weird movie. They should put it on for Halloween. There

Jeff Dwoskin 23:20

you go. Yeah. Or just keep making that. Bubbling frog noisier down earlier that freaked me out. You mentioned Jodie Foster. So you did two films with Jodie Foster da and and the second one. You mentioned the first one already, Napoleon and Samantha but the other one was Tom Sawyer, which is a musical. But it was the Sherman Brothers. So that's I'm a big fan of the Sherman Brothers after I've after I discovered them. I mean, that's it. They were already discovered, but once I personally Oh, yeah,

Johnny Whitaker 23:50

I mean, their music is unforgettable egg a Liberal government edible on the world is a veritable smorgasbord, or this board Morges board that was one of theirs. That was not a Disney to Charlotte's Web. But yes. And for the past. Well, on Richard Sherman's 90th birthday, I had the privilege of singing a song from Tom Sawyer at the Beverly Hills celebration for him that they had at the big, famous, beautiful Beverly Hills theater. Then, a friend of the Sherman's and B has become a friend of mine also did a 93rd birthday. And then his 95th birthday. I got to sing a couple songs for that. He's looking good. And his wife, I fell in love with his wife. I thought she was just really, really hot. And I mean, we didn't have that word. She's very pretty. That was the word that we would use in those days. And, you know, the Sherman Brothers There's wanted Donnie Reagan Osmund to sing my songs in Tom Sawyer, and you lip sync as well, the way that Hollywood did musicals, I don't know exactly if they still do them that way now, but why I'm sure they do it differently. When I went to do the screen test for Tom Sawyer, it was only like less than a few weeks, maybe five weeks at the most before the beginning of filming. And I said I wasn't going to do Tom Sawyer even though they wanted to give me the role because I'd already paid money to go to Boy Scout camp, and Tom Sawyer was going to interfere with my Boy Scout camp. Anyway, they, I went to four days of Boy Scout camp and then flew into Missouri and was there for day three of filming. Oh, I just forgot what I was talking about. Dan asmin. Oh, Donnie friggin eyes. Actually, I just, I just saw Donnie in Las Vegas at the Donnie show, which I went backstage to see him my date. Girlfriend, but friend, girl anyway, she said, You know, I've got tickets to Donny Osmond. And I got an extra one for you. And, and I also have going to see him before the show. Would you go with me? And maybe we can get backstage and since you're, so we did the pre show. And he goes, Jeff behind me. And so I said, hello, hello. We did ours? No, I've known Donnie for all years, my family and the Osmonds were in the same Mormon congregation, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, we were in that same Pacoima ward. And it was at the same time that Andy Williams had the brothers on the show. So this was 1965 66 and 65. I had done my first film, and then 66, we started to do family affair. And I do remember my parents, bringing all of my brothers and sisters to their house, while mom and dad and George and all of went into the kitchen. And I guess Mom and Dad, we're going to ask them about my money, what to do and how to protect it. Anyway, I don't think they got the best advice, in my opinion. But we'll talk to Donnie about that next time I see him. But anyway, my dear friend who got tickets to go see Donny Osmond made sure that I came along so that I could get her backstage. And Donnie, and i Hey, how you doing? Good to see you. He said, anybody see, the Donnie and Marie show in Vegas, and I roll was my hand because I'd seen it a couple of times and had gone backstage and seen them and you know, it was great. And he says, anybody here seen my show? And people raise their hands? Anybody not see the show? And I raised my hand. I hadn't seen it yet. And he says, Well, have you heard anything about it? And I said, and he says, Oh, Johnny, so what did you hear about it? And I said, Well, I heard that it was pretty good. All right. Okay. But you know, what? When we went backstage, I told Donnie I said, Donnie, I have to apologize. You know, I was just kind of teasing because you're my nemesis. And the reason he is my nemesis. The whole reason we're talking about this is because the Sherman Brothers wanted Donnie Osmond to sing Tom Sawyer's music. So I said, I have to apologize because you did a phenomenal job. There's one part in it where he pays tribute to Andy Williams. And it's just very, very poignant and beautifully done. And I just said, it was all good. That one was my favorite little part of it. But anyway, Donny Osmond and Johnny Whitaker have always been, well, he's been my nemesis, at least let me put it that way. He doesn't really care about me. I'm just Johnny Whitaker

Jeff Dwoskin 29:17

did not have that on my bingo card. I'll tell you that. Danny being your nemesis? Yes. She

Johnny Whitaker 29:22

then there was in like 1973 or 74. There was a Tiger Beat monthly or bi weekly, whatever. They were magazine, and it said Who's a better kisser? Donny Osmond or Johnny Whitaker. And I thought, okay, so who's going to come and test it as judging this right? And so the two weeks or a month went by and it came out, Donny Osmond wins. Best kisser I thought, wait a minute. I never kissed anybody. Or at least I didn't know I was supposed to be kissing anybody. That's about as much as I got. But I said come on. I mean, I didn't even get a test. He just had a better publicity agent than I did. So that's what I figured it. So, because of that, and Tom Sawyer, I did get to sing all my songs, but because of Tom Sawyer and that he became my nemesis, but we're pretty good friends today.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:15

I don't blame you after hearing that story. It's clear. Down, Donny Osmond is enemy number one.

Johnny Whitaker 30:22

Not anymore. The truce has been been done. And he is he was I think Entertainer of the Year in Las Vegas. I mean, just superb. Excellent. Even if you are not a Donnie fan, but you like music of the 60s and 70s. And he's got some good music today to go see that show. It's really good. Yeah. Give it five stars. Five

Jeff Dwoskin 30:48

stars. I got the Whitaker seal of approval. Absolutely. Sorry to interrupt, but I have to ask everyone to stand down. Everyone. We're okay with Danny asthma now. Everything's cool with Danny, do you want to take a quick second to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors? You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. Now back to my conversation with Johnny Whitaker. We're talking a little more Tom Sawyer was a Japanese was Huckleberry Finn. Correct. And Jodie Foster was Becky

Johnny Whitaker 31:23

Thatcher. Yes. And I gave Jodie Foster her first on screen hiss. And he got engaged. We got engaged. And you know, when I look back, and I see that part, that was such a nice kiss. I mean, it wasn't. But it was just very thoughtful on the part of Tom Sawyer, Johnny Whitaker. I just I did a good job. But then God turns gay. What do you think? Not my fault?

Jeff Dwoskin 31:52

I don't know you didn't win best kisser so who knows? Let's go.

Johnny Whitaker 31:57

I always say if you get the best on one side, you got to go to the other side. Gotta play from the other team. Just try it out.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:04

He gave her no choice Johnny gave her no choice.

Johnny Whitaker 32:07

That's why I was the better kisser Donny Osmond.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:12

We need to Tiger Beat retraction immediately. Yes. Yes, ma'am. I do want to talk about family affair of course. But I don't want to skirt by Sigmund and see monsters, the CID. Marty Krofft classic, one question I have about this. And then just not specifically family fair. But the one thing that those two have in common, which is they were both rebooted. Right. At one point family affair was rebooted. And I played in both of them. Right. You were Yeah. And I saw I saw an actual conversation with you where you were talking about a segment movie that Pauly Shore was potentially going to be in this was an older interview that I got, but then you were in the Amazon reboot. How do you feel about reboots in general? I mean, to have your, you know, iconic roles. You know, they and shows they tried to remake? How do you feel about that?

Johnny Whitaker 33:00

The fact that they were remade means that they were iconic, and that they were well done. Family Affair was not the Brady Bunch and didn't have that same brand appeal. But it has lasted for almost 60 years. 50 for 53 years. Yeah, 53 years. The fact that they wanted to reboot it for family affair, actually Cinemark Well, Marty Croft came to me and said, Hey, Johnny, we're thinking about doing a family affair reboot, would you help us get the producers and so I said absolutely. So I made a phone call. And I got first call for Marty Croft and his son in law and myself at a luncheon with the wife of Don Feddersen and Don Patterson's daughter from that wife who hold all of the family affair power. Then I thought, you know, hey, I'd like to be a part of the team. So oh, well, we've already got a team together. Wait a minute. I'm the one who got this started for you. So I was not savvy enough in business to make a big deal of it and I should have, but somehow, the producers who had and were preparing to do the reboot as a series for the CW didn't know or forgot or wasn't well known that Sid and Marty Krofft productions had first dibs, so they became producers on the show. And to this day, Marty Croft and Sid and Marty Krofft pictures have their offices at The Mary Tyler Moore Studios, which is CBS Studios, North Hollywood or Studio City. But interestingly enough that Amazon can aim to Marty Sid and Marty Krofft and said, you know, let's do a reboot. And so when I heard about that, I sent a message and I called Marty and I said, I've got a role in your new series. Don't care where don't care how but I've got a role. And so I got a fairly decent role in the reboot as the mayor of Dead Man's Cove,

Jeff Dwoskin 35:22

there you go, ruling with an iron fist. And then David Arquette is in that and then. Cool. So it was was it fun man to just be a part of this revisiting? Well,

Johnny Whitaker 35:31

the first day of filming when they announced me, it was as though here is Johnny Whitaker, the original, the one, the only King John, and everybody applauded and thank you very much.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:53

You deserve that you deserve that. It's it's I thought it was like 29 episodes right segment in the sea monsters. That was three seasons by like, it's not that many episodes, and that's in the early 70s. That

Johnny Whitaker 36:04

was the beginning of I mean, we had a few years earlier, puffing stuff and bugaboos, but Sid and Marty Krofft were the originators of the live action puppetry, and then go forward 2030 years Disney doesn't get rid of all of its cartoons, but has children's programming with live action people. That was the beginnings of live action, Saturday morning television,

Jeff Dwoskin 36:36

what do you think about your the original segment? That just it never left? If I get stayed in everyone's head, you know, because a lot of shows in that timeframe. There's a million shows that have come and gone that we can't even list because we don't even we don't even know they don't remember him or anything but like yours have stuck. What do you attribute to that?

Johnny Whitaker 36:54

Well, as I was an older teenager, I was a little embarrassed by it. Just because I mean, as an older teenager, and yeah, yeah, I did that. I made money. Uh huh. Yeah. And I mean, the acting and all of that was well, rip Taylor was total camp. Okay. Super campy how Wow. And so that's just total camp for rip. And I could have played it more campy. And I as I look back on it, I think, because I was just playing it like it was real. And I was playing it like, and maybe that's the good part of it, is that Scott and I were just, you know, playing it like it was really real. And so everybody else kind of got I guess so maybe so thinking about it. Never really thought about it. I think you're right. But yeah, just that because we played it so real. And didn't play it campy and Oh,

Jeff Dwoskin 37:57

no right segment was reality. It was your monster Samos, he was

Johnny Whitaker 38:02

my friend. And Billy Barty, who was the puppeteer? He was not the voice, but he was the puppeteer inside. If you notice, Sigmund has a little kitchen, his gidea. And that is definitely what Billy Barty had, he had just a little he suffered from dwarfism, which is different than I don't know what the exact term is. But the true term is dwarfism. We now it's the polite term to call them little people. And Billy Barty had the little people Inc, it was a nonprofit to help little people get education and job offers that weren't just in the movies. Great man. And I was at his passing at his funeral. And it was a beautiful thing. But yes, Sigmund was a fun time. And looking back on it. I'm proud of the work but like I said, as a teenager and older teen it was like

Jeff Dwoskin 39:06

everyone's got that now. So family affair, so you're about seven at the time that it becomes one of the biggest show is it just blows up? How does that change a seven year olds life? I mean, besides having the $5 Your mom's your $5? You know, like, just in terms of just walking anywhere, like, you know, just like a mall. Sob I mean,

Johnny Whitaker 39:26

well, because of that, my family. Whenever I was with them, they weren't able to do much normalcy. So you know, they also got perks. We got back in the day, Disneyland, instead of just having to wait in line or today. Of course, you can pay to go to the front of the line. But back in the day, they had a B, C, D and E tickets. I remember that. Then, if you were a Disney star All right, or an important person, you got a four ever ticket, which meant that and I got books of them, instead of a book of ABCDE. I got a book of four ever tickets, which were A through E. And of course, II was the most expensive ride, but and I didn't have to pay and my family didn't have to pay to go to Disneyland. I got a free ride with free tickets, free parking, everything free. And all we paid for was, you know, food. So anytime we had family or friends come into town, call up my contact to Disney. And sure enough, there's those forever tickets and it was just like, wow,

Jeff Dwoskin 40:46

that sounds like to me like the greatest thing in the world. I haven't been to Disneyland, but I've been I love Disney World, just to be able to roll like that. Sounds like a dream.

Johnny Whitaker 40:56

Now I have to pay everything. My contact is no longer working. She's still around, I believe, but she's no longer working at Disney. But she worked there. Gosh, until way, way, way, way late.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:08

I want to make a phone call. Somebody's got a Disney's got to be able to hook up Johnny Whittaker Come on. I mean, this is like what are we talking about here? What? Well, I'm

Johnny Whitaker 41:16

talking about family for answering your question. What is it like for a seven, eight year old to have that kind of fame family affair began in 1966. And I was six years old, in 1967 68. Or I guess 67. Cinderella clothesline, which was a little girl's clothesline, contacted the producers and wanted to present a Buffy clothesline and that they would provide all of the clothing for Buffy and Nisa. And one thing they just asked is if she would do a little tour with going around the country, and then elder manufacturing company who had at the time, their children's line was called the Tom Sawyer line of clothes. They were made out of St. Louis, Missouri. So they got a hint that Buffy was going to do it. So why don't we get Jody, so uh, Nisa and I would do on our hiatus, we would go and do these fashion shows, in big malls. We would be like at Dillards or may company, any of the big shopping malls and shopping stores. And you know, they would say Buffy and Jody are coming to South Bend mall or whatever. I remember. I guess it was like 1970 68 A Nisa and I were invited to Memphis, Tennessee, and we were doing a fashion show there. When we got there. The police were there and escorting us. Well, actually, I think on the news, the police came in the mayor of the city came and welcomed us off the airplane and there were lots of fans that were there. You know, just kind of like Donny Osmond in the Osmond had it when all the girls are screaming. But all these moms and kids are you know, my mother and a nice his mother and our teacher came off the plane. And then we would do interviews with the local CBS affiliate, because it was a CBS show when we got there. And we got up on this raised platform where we were probably five to sigma, six feet, maybe four to five feet in the air. There were almost 30,000 People in this mall. And as we got up there, all you could see were heads all the way back. And this is before they had cameras or you know, screen shots where they have now, you know, so that you could see a close up of them. From far back. It was just a mob and all these kids were moving up and I just said stop, because there were little kids right in front getting squished and, and all of this because everybody wanted to come closer. And so they had to move everybody back. And I just got scared. We did the show. And then as we came out, you know, we had the police escorting us Aneesa and I also got to meet President Lyndon Baines Johnson. And that was really, really exciting. Although my parents are very staunch Republicans, we got to meet President Johnson. And he did a lot of good things. After the unfortunate assassination of JFK. He was a gentle man. And you know, he said My grandkids are just gonna love knowing that I met Buffy and Jodie.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:51

Let's unpack that for a second. So I don't know if you appreciated the moment but just saying it right now. A president of the United States met you. And while you're like, oh my god, the President, the President is going, oh my god, I can't believe I'm meeting Johnny, Johnny Whitaker and Lisa Jones.

Johnny Whitaker 45:10

It wasn't him that was excited. He says My grandkids are going to be excited. So right, but

Jeff Dwoskin 45:16

he knew exactly who you were. Yes.

Johnny Whitaker 45:20

We wouldn't have seen the President if he didn't know who we were.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:23

I know. But still it still you know, he knows dementia, sir. Yeah, I

Johnny Whitaker 45:27

mean, today, looking back at it being able to meet the President of the United States, the world leader. Yeah. And the world leader of democracy. You can see I'm wearing red, white and blue. I'm quite patriotic. And I vote I don't know if you can see in back of me, you see up there is all my having voted. I voted. And that's actually also my Johnny Whittaker as Zack from the new Tom Sawyer, or the new segment in the sea monster. You know, I had a lot of great opportunities. But you know, that was one thing. I didn't realize what fame was until almost 30,000 people came to see Buffy and Jody, then it kind of hit me that I guess, I guess I'm kind of famous. If a lot of people would get out of school or to come and see us, because it was in the aft I think it was on a Saturday. So they didn't have to get out of school. But I know, in other times, kids and I got out of school to come see you. I thought I have to go back to school. Because even if I was on, you know the road, I had to have three hours of schooling every day. Brian key was well, to us to a Nisa and myself and to most any other child, he was superbly loving and caring. And when Brian was working, he only worked three of the nine months, we would work six to nine months, and then he would only work three of those in succession. But when he was there, it was all fun time and Hop on my back, and we could do anything but don't touch the tube. He had a little hairpiece that they you know, put in so that when he turned around he you know, you didn't see the whole like I have, but you don't touch the tube, Mr. Cobos. That name just came up to me, who was the makeup and hair for Brian. But later on, I found out that Brian was a very much a curmudgeon. He did two other series for NBC. One was the little people, which because Billy Barty had that they had to change it to the Brian Keith show. I got to see him. Oh, and then on what's the race car are cast on McLaren, Hardcastle and McCormick. They were filming downtown LA and I happen to be working downtown LA and close by and so I made sure to park by there and I saw his wife. And I got her said hey, can I come see Brian? So I went to see Brian and he Wow. Johnny Whitaker, how are you? And so you know, in between shots, we were able to talk probably about 1520 minutes. And it was nice to see him when he was doing the Brian Keith show, which was NBC. I was doing segment in the sea monster and we came together at some network event. And it was good to see him then. Later on. I remember if it wasn't at Hardcastle and McCormick, he just said Johnny, Hollywood isn't the way it used to be. Now they've got all they have are suits, you know what a suit is? And I said, I think so. These are people who don't know, acting, don't know entertainment from their aihole. They're just a bunch of mofos except to use the actual language. And he said, they don't know entertainment. And, you know, they say, Well, Mr. Keith, we need to put this this and this in it because we have done this. He says they don't know shit about entertainment. And he says all they know are numbers. And I thought you know what, that's kind of true. He later on, uh, when he was well, five days before he passed, I had the privilege of calling him on the phone. I had heard that he was very ill and an agent that worked with my agent Mary Grady was now working for another agency that happened to be one of Brian's agents. I called him up and he was able to get me Brian's phone number. So I was working for a temp company at the time. And at lunch. I figured I'm gonna try to give him a call. So I call him up and I'm expecting to hear his wife or a nurse or a secretary answer the phone and he says oh, go Hello, Brian. Who the hell is this? And I said, Brian, this is Johnny Whittaker. Johnny Whitaker, how the hell did you get my phone number? And I said, Brian, I promise I got it from the police of the police. And I swear to you, no one will see this number. No one will get this number goes well, that f and paparazzi have been trying to find me and take pictures of me and I feel like shit, and I look like shit. And I don't want to show that to anybody. And I said, Yeah, I respect that. And I understand that. And I said, so I understand you're not? Well, he says, yeah, that's and doctors give me five effing days to live at all. Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry, Brian. It was yeah, you know, my daisies. She died about four months ago. And life is just not the same without her. And they say that I've got, you know, stage four, lung cancer and some other cancers that had just beaten me up. And they gave me five days to live. I said, all I'm so sorry. I said, I just I want you to know that I've respected you. And I've loved you. And I can't say anything more than you were just a wonderful human being and I'm so glad that you were in my life. And he says, Oh, that's really sweet. Johnny, I appreciate that. And I said, you know, I, I heard about DAISY passing. You know, my sister, my oldest sister just passed away a couple of years ago. And it was very difficult on my parents and, and have Selma, How's your mom doing? And I said, she's doing very well, thank you. And I said, she might be able to help you understand working through what you had to go through because my oldest sister passed away. And he said, Would you mind if I gave that your phone number to my mother, I would love to talk to your mom. And I said, done. So we talked for another little while, hung up, and I call my mom and I said, Mom, I just talked to Brian Keith, and he wants to talk to you. Ryan wants to talk to me, said yeah, here's the number, give him a call. And so she called him I told him, he said, You know, I was I'm getting tired, I better get off the phone. I said, you know, give him a couple hours. But you know, give them a call. And she said that she was able to talk to him for about 10 minutes and reminisce and that it was just a beautiful experience. And he also told her he didn't I don't think he he cussed with her there, because he knew my mother would call him on it. You know, he was a real gentle man, to me, a loving, beautiful man. I understand that other people. And NBC looked at him as an a hole and a curmudgeon and all of that, but I didn't know any of that. As Brian

Jeff Dwoskin 53:00

Gianni that is one of the most beautiful stories I've ever heard. Thank you for telling me that I it's so nice that you were able to talk to him just days before he passed. That's

Johnny Whitaker 53:10

a nice his mother called me and said give me Brian's number because she wanted to talk to Brian's wife, I suppose. And I said, I'm sorry, Paula. But I promised Brian I would not. I can call Brian's wife and give her your number. So when I want to talk to her, I want me to call I said I'll do what I can and call her from that. Well, she didn't like me anyway. But from that time until she passed, when I heard and people talk about me, they said that she didn't have anything nice to say about me.

Jeff Dwoskin 53:46

I'm sure there's plenty of people that have a lot of nice things to say about you. So we'll just have to write that one off. Brian Keith. I mean, besides being your your uncle and like a father on that show, father's a year. Absolutely. But how much how much do you look back and go because when you did the Russians are coming the Russians are coming with him and and he's like, I need this Johnny Whitaker and my new TV show family affair and even just right they made you a nice as twin that wasn't even originally, that they're like, Oh, this is this is they reworked everything when they brought you in,

Johnny Whitaker 54:19

right? Well, I was the only six year old boy at the screen test. They were screen testing everybody and Pamela Lynn burden was there who I had worked with before. And so we kind of hugged but all it was a 16 year old girl a 10 year old boy and a six year old girl was the way the script was originally set. And Brian wanted to make sure that I got at least screen tested to play some role like a neighbor or you know Buffy boyfriend or friend somewhere also in the bill. thing that would be a recurring role. So they had me there, and I'm pretty sure I was the only six year old and then when they saw a nice end of me together magic and it was Buffy and Jody are twins. And it wasn't until the fifth season, end of the fourth season and most all of the fifth season, they never called us the twins, because I had grown so much taller than a Nisa that she hadn't grown. So they were trying to get away from the twins, not necessarily remove the fact that we were twins, they just never brought it up a whole lot more.

Jeff Dwoskin 55:37

He would have been fraternal twins. So I mean, you've got been taller. Yeah, because I mean, while maybe not the original intention of the show, because I think it was originally supposed to be focused on Brian, if you came to Jodi Buffy show basically right? You guys

Johnny Whitaker 55:50

and Italy in the 70s. If you saw a little redheaded boy in the street, they would say there goes a Jody.

Jeff Dwoskin 56:01

Wow, that is amazing. I mean, there's a million other things we could talk about. I've kept him forever. So

Johnny Whitaker 56:08

we can always do you know, episode two. Let's

Jeff Dwoskin 56:10

do that. Let's, there's a lot of cool stuff we could still dive into.

Johnny Whitaker 56:14

I do want to talk about what I'm doing now. Yeah, let's do that. I am a alcohol and drug educator. I am a counselor certified in the state of California for drug and alcohol treatment, rehab, and DUI, driving under the influence or DWI, driving while intoxicated. I've been doing that for about 20 years. I've continued to work on and off in show business. But I have a really good friend down in Florida. We had always talked about doing a movie. He's filmed probably about 10 or 15 films, B, C, or D kind of films, but he's done it. I said we need to work I need to direct a film of yours. He says well write a script. And then let's do it. So my best friend and CO writer Brian Liggins and myself started writing a script and then COVID hit, we kind of put it on the backburner, but then we could get it done. So we actually finished it. And it's just a short film. It's called sky blue. I wrote it and I will co direct it, produce it. Along with some friends. The logline is what happens when a white southern racist must come to grips that he's the only living relative to his mixed race, granddaughter, it's kind of a drama D. It has some comedy and drama in it, and hopefully very poignant for today's movement that I myself, my god son and his mother are dear friends and I met them when I was in Portugal. She is from Angola. And her family is from Cape Verde. And so she's black and very dark. And my god son is mixed race. He was getting into trouble in Portugal. And so I told him you have two choices. One is to go into the army or to come to California and live with grandma and grandpa he chose grandma and grandpa. Because of that I have my grandkids are half Mexican, and a quarter Portuguese and a quarter African. When I wrote the script, I wanted my granddaughter to kind of be the the lead. But she is now older and couldn't do it. Beautiful grandkids that I have sky blue, the hopefully we'll have it finished by the end of spring 2024 and then have it in some film festivals and other events. And because of the love that I have for Portugal, where I met my godson, and my dear friend, Maria, I have a documentary that I'm planning called, did Portugal get it? Right question mark, exclamation point. Question mark. One man's journey through the drug policies of Portugal and Portugal 22 years ago, changed their drug policy to make all drugs decriminalized. They're still illegal, but they have decriminalized. So instead of being a criminal for having a drug problem, you go into rehab or you get treatment or training or education about the dangers of these drugs. Then I'm also writing my memoirs. And I'm not going to give you the name of it yet because it is the best name ever for a book. Once I get it almost ready to be published because of my drug alcohol, sex, drugs, rock and roll 1520 25 years of that Going from choir boy to crackhead. But that's not the name of the book.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:04

That was the second name of it. Yeah, that's, that was number two,

Johnny Whitaker 1:00:08

the underneath part, also known as anyway, and back, because I am back are back. I'm no longer crackhead. I have been working on that. And so a lot of times when I'm you know, that's why some of these things are right at the top of my head because I've worked on them working through them. I think I'm going to have to do two versions, one, which is the coffee table version, and the other, which is the post them table version. And you asked, What do you mean by that? In Mormon speak, Mormons don't have coffee tables, they have post them tables, because they don't drink coffee. So the R rated version will be the coffee table version, and then the post and table version will not have any F bombs in them, or any s bombs, and kind of gloss over. And if you want to know, you know, there'll be a little asterisk, you know, go to page, whatever it is, you know, it's just interesting, because it will be a kind of a history lesson of what's gone on from 1959 to today. What happened with me during all of those periods. It's exciting. And I was right in the middle of writing when I remembered that I was late to talk to you. So I apologize that, you know, it's been fun talking to you.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:01:37

I've had a blast talking to Johnny. And when the book is done, send me a copy. I'll read it, you'll come back. We'll dive even deeper into all the parts that we didn't even cover by it. I mean, so much. Great stories to tell so and inspirational ones too. Like you said, you're back.

Johnny Whitaker 1:01:55

I'm back.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:01:57

Thank you so much. This was really great. Well, thank

Johnny Whitaker 1:01:59

you. Thank you all who are fans and friends, Johnny whitaker.com is where you can go to get information on me. Also, I've got a Facebook page. Johnny Whitaker fans, I think is what it is. But just typing in Facebook. And even though it is now EQ, I like Twitter, and so you can become a Twitter occur. Hey, guy,

Jeff Dwoskin 1:02:23

that could be the name of your book now. Oh, leave me hanging. We're gonna leave my hand. That's right. Well, thank

Johnny Whitaker 1:02:27

you so much again.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:02:29

All right. How amazing was Johnny Whitaker so many great stories, and so many more to tell can't wait for his memoir. Well, with the interview over that can only be one thing I know the episode is over. I can't believe it either. Just flew by one more huge thank you to my guest, Johnny Whittaker. And another huge thank you to all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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