#288 Uncovering Truths: John Barbour the creator of Real People discusses Lenny Bruce, Bob Hope and the Assassination of JFK

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Sarah, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody. It's episode 288. of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be the most deep digging episode we have ever done with me is comedian, actor, television host five time Emmy Award winner John Barber, considered the godfather of reality television created real people one of the most successful shows of all time, we're diving into the comedy and John's relationship with Jim Garrison. And we're diving deep into the assassination of JFK. John has created John has created three documentaries on the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and we're going deep spoiler we're solving all the murders in this episode. That's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds, Eddie Feldman was here last week. Not only does he make a great sandwich, he's hilarious and had so many great stories to share working with Dennis Miller on his first three shows after Saturday Night Live the Chevy Chase show and more. Check that out. But first, you're going to check out my conversation with John Barber. We're talking Lenny Bruce Martin Luther King, Johnny Carson, and so much more. John pulls no punches. John's telling it like it is John spent a lot of time investigating, exploring and unearthing the truth behind the John F. Kennedy assassination. And he's here to share his findings with us get ready for my amazing conversation with John Barber. Enjoy. All right, everyone. I'm excited to introduce my next guest, comedian, actor, author, storyteller, five time Emmy Award winner, creator of real people that making him the godfather of reality TV show, we started it all here to talk about his latest documentary John barbers and William Shakespeare his final words on the murder of JFK. This episode is gonna have everything. I'm so excited. All right. Welcome to the show, John Barber. Jeff, I'm

John Barbour 2:40

just as excited to be talking to you because one of the things that I love, I love comedians, and I know you're a comedian. So you rank right up there. And I love talk show hosts and I love show business. Of course, I spent my life in it. And I love more somebody who is interested in the murder of John Kennedy, and especially demand who solved the case, the man who was more important than John Kennedy, and that is Jim Garrison. So whatever you want to do and wherever you want to go, I am willing to follow

Jeff Dwoskin 3:15

awesome. I do want to talk about JFK just spoiler everyone, we're solving the murder by the end of this episode, so stay to the end.

John Barbour 3:26

Well, the murder was solved by Jim Garrison when he arrested Clay Shaw in 1967. Because there's no District Attorney in the world who is going to go even the people who arrested Donald Trump never had said they're going to be convictions, we get them into court. You never heard one of them say that about Trump. But Jim Garrison said, and it's on camera in 1967. We are going to get convictions when we get into court. We are going to name names. We have the names of shooters, we had the people who exchange the money now that was in 1967. However, the United States government, the murders of President Kennedy, and the American media who assisted in the case of CBS assisted in the murder of John Kennedy, but the rest of the media which covered up the murders of John Kennedy and also maligned Jim Garrison. They never allowed him for two years to get in the court. And at the time, 1967 I was just a struggling comedian. I was born as the Salvation Army Hospital Lord to to one wanting parents in Toronto in 1933. My father and mother pot so much I mean, I came from a dysfunctional family Jeff before it was popular, and my mother and father bought so much, my father figured be easy to take on the Germans. So I joined the Canadian Army, went overseas and never came back. And my mother brought into the house about 18 Uncles I'd never met, they came in like grapes, they came in bunches, they can get dead with her to board with her and mate mostly to beat her. And I was out in the streets when I was six years of age, spent all my time as a Canadian at a hockey rink, or in a movie theater on Kingston Road, the manor theatre for five cents, I could get to see a double feature all American movies and my favorite was, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Jimmy Stewart, I want to be in America where they have people like Jimmy Stewart, and directors like like that. And what I was from the ages of 12 to 16, I was an inveterate gambler, I want to share you something I know we're gonna be on the radio, but I'll show you anyway. See this book, your mother's not a virgin. That's your memoir. Yeah. And it's a bumpy life, sometimes Canadian drop, but we change the face of American television. That's a picture of me in a $600 suit at 17 in front of Bugsy Siegel's old Flamingo hotel. And I'll tell you the reason for the stats and the demand. But in any event, between the ages of 12 and 14, I was an incurable gambler. And everything I could beg borrow steal, I stole a lot a lot for which I was arrested. I was the first one in and that was the last one out. And one day I realized that if I didn't want to do this, I don't you know, I'm not here to make money. I'm here to make friends. But I don't want to be friends with people like this. So one day, when I get out of jail, I go across the street to the librarian. They get two books, John Scanian cards, John, Scania, and dice, and I memorize it. And then six weeks, I went $700.19 50. And I decide I'm going to come to the United States. So I buy that $600 suit. I walked across the bridge at Niagara Falls. And when I get on the other side, immigration officer says how long you're going to be here. And I said, Well, Justice day, I've seen the Canadian side and I want to see the American side. And I got I got on a train and my destination was Las Vegas, Nevada, which is very tacit. It's very paradoxical, because that's where I'm living now, when that's where I only intended to live when I was a gambler, but I'm no longer a gambler. I was deported twice. And when I was 46 years of age, I was unemployable. I got my immigration, and I got my naturalization papers from Senator John Tani of California in 1977. And in 1979, I was the host, and the creator and the producer of the most successful and original show in American history, which was, of course, real people. It is an amazing Canadian rags to riches story, Jeff, and it's all unplanned. And one of the things that I like about you, is it you said you're a comedian? You know, Mark Twain was America's greatest writer. He said one thing that rings a bell unbelievably, and it may ring one for you. He said the two greatest days in your life are the day you're born. And the day discover why the day I discovered why was the day I saw Jack Paar now you are undoubtedly too young to know who Jack Paar was

Jeff Dwoskin 8:46

right. I know who Jack Paar was I'm too young to have watched him while he was high.

John Barbour 8:51

That is a major shame. But you combine Steve Allen, who was very good to Johnny Carson, who was only good with entertainers totally inept with anybody who was an intellectual. If he got William Buckley and Gore Vidal on the show. He just fell on his ass. He was anti intellectual. He was just a drunk and a drug user. But a great stand up comic, only good with entertainers. And par was better than all of them put together then and now. But I didn't know people had conversations. I just thought people threw beer bottles at one another cost one another. But he opened his show with the greatest monologues and television. And so I said, I want to be the next Jack bar so I can ever talk show. But I had to learn to be a comic. And so I taught myself to be a comic and how I did that. First off, I got a dozen and a half of all the great albums Bob Newhart Shelley Berman Mort saw shaky green, and even how many young men take my wife, please. I mean, all of them, okay, but they all have I have a very distinct personality. I had no personality. So they went to the library and got all the books. But the book, the jokes that were any good, everybody knows. So I said, Well, gee, I can do better than that. I had not written a joke in my life. I didn't even know I could write a joke. I was out of school when I was 15 years of age. And so it was at the time of all the in the you weren't even born then. I mean, Black Power stuff in the 60s and my MO are the movements in the, in the 60s, the fake war that was looming in Vietnam in the 60s, for God's sake. And my very first line, when I decided to become a comic, I can remember it was I met my name is John Barber. And I met him appearing here in the United States through the courtesy of the NAACP, the National Association of the advancement of Canadian people. And then I went on to describe the differences between Canada and America. And in a few weeks, I was opening with Jim Nabors, that little club in Santa Monica. And that's what launched Jim Nabors as a star. He would talk like this, okay, you know, right, right. Okay. And then he'd say, I'd like to sing you this little ditty now, but I learned up in the Ozarks while we were making some moonshine, and everybody would cheer because they know what would happen and then hit open, hands out a mouth, and as good as Pavarotti came Nessun Dorma, I mean, what a voice. I mean, he could have been an opera singer, and he became my best friend while I was there. So that settles some of how I became a comic. Where is it? You want to go from there because for four and a half years, I was Frank Sinatra's private writer. I was the first one in America to review movies on the news. And Jim Garrison chose me over Oliver Stone to be the boss wall to tell the story and make the definitive documentaries and tell the real story about his assault and sabotage, investigation into the murder of John Kennedy. And of course, the third and final one is called John barbarous. And William Shakespeare's last word on the murder of JFK. And I will explain that title when we get to it. So where would you like to go first?

Jeff Dwoskin 12:29

All right. Let's stick with the comedy for a minute. You worked with all lots of folks. Right? Carlin Dangerfield, Tim Conway, any specific things pop out? I do want to hear about Frank Sinatra as well. I found a letter online that he wrote you were you said I liked most of the material. And the tenor of your delivery. You ain't a Henry young man. But you're all mine. That's

John Barbour 12:54

my god. How Smart View? Yeah, yes. Good for you. Yeah. Well, I guess one of the most interesting stories I could tell you would be the story of one of my very, very, very favorite comics, I think America's greatest comic genius is Bill Hicks. Bill Hicks was the only one with the talent and the courage and the guts and the brains to be able to write jokes about the assassination of John Kennedy. Nobody was able to do that. And some of those jokes are included in my second documentary, which is the American media, and the second assassination of President John F. Kennedy, which is only $2 on Amazon, but I think a really attack can tell you two interesting stories, one about Bob Hope, whom I absolutely trashed when I was the critic at NBC when he was the biggest thing at NBC, and the other would be about Lenny Bruce, who would probably be my second most favorite comedian. Now, you must have heard a dead Gregory? Yes, of course. Okay. David Gregory was the Bob Hope of his day. This is long before he got into food or health foods or civil rights or anything like that. My wife was a band singer for the first great jazz pianist in America named girl father, Heinz. She worked with Louis Armstrong and her two closest friends became red fox and date Greg green. So when I started as a comic and met her, she introduced me to red fox. And when I got my first variety show, I was the first one to put red fox on the air and not in an entertainment show, and nobody would put him on the air because they thought he was filthy, but I knew that he could be funny, and his real name was John Sanford. And that's why the show became Sanford and Son. He called himself Fred because his brother Fred died, and that was a tribute to him. them and you will not know this but Sanford and Son is really a name your show called Steptoe and Son. And that's where Norman Lear got the idea to do it. And he got the idea of hiring red fox from seeing him on my show, you can go to my site and you see conduct because red foxes best friend was Malcolm X, they committed crimes together, they went to prison together, they slept on rooftops together, you go to my site, John barbers world.com. You'll see the most incredible interviews not only with red fox, but when he was roasted by Dean Martin, on the Dean Martin rose, I was the first one called to do the rose. And as I mentioned to you, I was Frank's writer for four and a half years. So when he got the Tonight Show, and hosted it, I was the first one he called to do a stand up. So you can call in watch that. Sorry

Jeff Dwoskin 15:59

to interrupt, have to take a quick break. I do want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my conversation with John Barber. We're about to dive into the last week of Lenny Bruce.

John Barbour 16:16

Oh, yeah. Lenny Bruce, I wanted to tell you about the last week of Lenny Bruce, are you very familiar with Lenny Bruce at all?

Jeff Dwoskin 16:24

I am. And more so now that I've watched Mrs. Maisel. But yeah, I was always familiar with Lenny Bruce. Okay.

John Barbour 16:31

And you saw the movie god awful movie Lenny with Dustin Hoffman. I think I skipped that one where you're lucky skipped it because it was just God awful. Dustin Hoffman, who was a great actor was totally miscast. And Bob Fosse Z who was a great directory just screwed it up. Because all you saw was gent Lenny Bruce being arrested for saying the F word for attacking the Catholic Church or attacking the government. That is not how he became famous. Did you ever hear his routine on why the Lone Ranger never stops? Tahira? Thank you. Can you ever did you ever hear his routine? About how to make a black person comfortable at a party? No, no. Well, they say you miss the golden age of comedy. Well, that is what made Lenny Bruce's star. Did you ever see the movie all that jazz? I think a long time ago. Yeah. Now all that jazz is one of the greatest musicals ever made by Bob Fossey one of the greatest choreographers ever. But in the middle of that movie, you see him rushing to the editing room gave it a black and white film about a comic, because he knew he had screwed up Lenny. So he was trying to make up for it in that film. And in any event, Lenny was appearing at a place called the blue node in San Francisco. My wife, of course, knew the owner because she's from San Francisco. She's a famous singer and dancer in San Francisco, and I'm just a rising comic. My second job was at San Francisco's hungry I, oh my God, it was the second most famous nightclub in America. It spawned Bill Cosby. That was the birthplace of Mort saw. Have you heard of mort? So I've heard more TSA? Yes. Okay. Mort saw became John Kennedy's favorite comedian and ended up on the cover of Time Magazine. It's where Barbra Streisand got a big break. After she appeared in the Mike Wallace show in New York. It made all these comics, okay. But Lenny was too dirty to work there. And he's working in the blue note. And all he's doing at the blue now is talking about his trial in Chicago and attacking the police. Because he has the police, the police, steal his act, and are doing it for the jury. And Lenny is screaming at the judge. That's my act. cops aren't comedians I'm the comedians tell him to sit down. So I get up and do my act to the jury and the judge says you sit down, of course they find him guilty. They deny him his license, choice in the blue note, and that's all he's talking about. But people loved him because he remembered the funny stuff. And what he's talking about American law is really interesting. When it is over. He sees Sarita my wife and says, Can I borrow your husband for a while? He's never met me. His mother's name was Sally. Sally loved me. And she always told his son you gotta meet this wasp, Johnny Barber. He's got this real hilarious album, call it stuff to be white. Dad. Is it funny, you got to meet him. So he asked him I will go for a walk with amendment night in North Beach in San Francisco. And guess what he says to me he's Says John, I was at the top at one time when I was clean. And he said, you know, if I had to do over again, I would do it entirely differently. You know, I don't own a car, I don't own a house, I don't have a bank account. I don't have a girlfriend, I don't have anything. I'm really at a loss at my age as to what to do. And I really felt bad for him. And then he says to me, in a week and a half, I'm opening at a place called the Golden Bear in Huntington Beach. And Jeff, I was very familiar with it. It was a size of an airport. Okay. And I used to go down there to perform and also to break in material for television. So he said, Would you and Sarita come to my house, so I could go over some material with you that I could use down there. So we get to his house, the exterior, the page falling off the wall, we get inside. It's absolutely totally filthy. He's got empty bottles all over the place. He's got tapes all over the places boxes all over the place. And there's a box of pizza. He said, Would you like a slice? And I said, No. And I said no like that. And my wife said, don't be so rude. So I say to my wife of ladies there. Hey, honey, if you were in a restaurant this dirty, would you take a slice of pizza like that? So lady started laughing. My wife Alma is to be said, Sarita, that's why I love your husband, because he is just so bloody honest. So he said, John, will you listen to these tapes? Now the tapes are all about us, because it's trial again. And I said, Listen, Lenny, you were made famous by his great bits about the Lone Ranger and a guy getting on an airplane where there's a bomb, about somebody making BlackField comfortable. And you know, he had the funniest cover of his album that's called the sick humor of Lenny Bruce. He's having a picnic in a graveyard. But all the material is clean. Okay, I said, that's the real Lenny Bruce that I love. And I said, If you don't, if you don't do that, and I ain't impeach, I am not gonna go with you. I'm not taking my wife with me. And the other thing is, if I want to hear court shit, I will go watch The Merchant of Venice for God's sake. Now we really laughs and he said, Well, if I tried to be clean, will you come down? I said, Absolutely. So a week later, my wife and I go down there. It's about 600. It's sold out. Lenny Bruce one night on like, he has planned a 45 minute set. It turns into an hour and a half from standing ovation, standing ovation standard, not one swear word, nothing but clean, brilliant material. So afterwards, we go in backstage and see and you can't get them. There is such a crowd of well wishes. He waves that mean, he says, Thank you. Thank you both so much. I'll see you later. We see him a week later and the cover of the LA Times with a needle in his arm, stark naked and dead. That was cocaine served to him by the cops in Los Angeles, that was poison enough to kill him. And they made sure he was naked. And they stuck the needle in his arm as a warning to anybody who would question the government of the United States, and especially the Catholic Church. So that is the only opinion I have about that. But that was the last heartbreaking week that I spent with La booths. But in my book, I knew them all. And if you want to hear a great, great story about Bob Hope, who was my idol, even as a kid before par? I'd be happy to tell you that story.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:51

I think you need to tell me that story. Let's hear it. Okay, so

John Barbour 23:55

I'm the critic at NBC five years, it's called critic large. I win Emmys three years in a row as a critic at large. And Bob Hope comes on with one of his our special at the time, he was 72 years of age. And the show is god awful. You could see him reading off the cue cards. He couldn't remember half of the lines that he was reading. The cameras seemed to wander all over. The skits were just cut. It was awful. So at the time of Vietnam war was going on. He was stupidly supporting that I mean, it was embarrassing. And I said in my review, you know, ladies and gentlemen, in this country, if you work at General Motors, or you look at work at Boeing, oh you're you work at McDonald's. And you get to be 65 You have to retire. You want to know something? The same thing should hold true for comics. Like Bob Hope he is becoming the J Edgar Hoover of him. He is just no longer funny, and he should call it quits and just go to the golf course. Well, of course, everybody at NBC avoided spate. I mean, like the plague. I mean, I no longer had any friends. And I get a call from Bob Howard, the General Manager. Now three times I am fired from NBC for some of the really strong critiques I did of something. And Bob Howard calls me and said, Can you take the call from Bob, Bob's lawyer? He said, everything is going crazy around here and there all kinds of lawsuits threatening, and they want me to get rid of you. And of course, you know, I can't because I get rid of you. My wife's gonna get rid of me. She just adores you. But will you take a call from from Bob Hope's lawyer? And I said, Certainly, sir, I'll do whatever you want to do. Because he saved my job for five years. So the phone rings and I pick it up, and it says, This is Bob Hope. And I said, Holy God, and he said, You're goddamn right. Your god damn right. Then he said, Hey, kid, what did I did ever do to you? And he's yelling at me. And I yelled back. And I said, didn't you hear? You're bored me? Well, there's this whole long silence. And then I said, I guess Mr. Hope you're also a little hard of hearing, as well as seeing, because you couldn't see the goddamn cue cards that you were reading from. But if you heard the read you, you heard me say, You were my idol. When I was a kid. I remember the old Bob Oh, broadcasting from Fort Ord radio shows, sponsored by Pepsodent. And the Bing Crosby, movies that looked ag ag live on the road. Nothing is entertaining is that nobody comes close to you and being dead. And the best movie that my friend Lucille Ball did was a movie that you did with her. You missed all of the great stuff. I said. So I was ashamed of you being an amateur. And he, he got real soft. And he said, Well, NBC doesn't want me anymore, like a baby. And I said, How can you say that you're the biggest comic star in the last 40 years in this country. He said, John, I no longer fit the demographics. I am too old for their audience. They do not want me back for this show or any other show. I said, but you were on. He said, I got on in spite of NBC. And he said, you know how? And I said, how he said, I was playing golf, as I do almost every day with the president of Texaco. And he says to me, Bob, when's your next show? And I said, No, don't have a next show. And he said, why? I said, they don't want me What do you mean, they don't want? I don't fit their demographic graphics. I'm too old. They only want younger people. Like you, Jeff, I guess the guy I'm talking to. So the president of Texaco says, well, we'll get you the hour, you're going to be the spokesperson for Texaco. So I said to Bob, I said, Well, it's essential never going to be the spokesperson for humble oil. Well, he how, and he said in John, and that's how it would happen. He said, they had to put me on because Texaco paid for the hour. NBC got to keep 15 minutes, and we got to keep 15 minutes in it's called bartering. we bartered the hour, okay, that's what my next show will also be. And he said, could I tell you something else? Everybody thinks I'm rich. I said, Time magazine just said I'm worth $400 million. He said, I do have a few dollars. But you know, I was in the category. Now you're definitely Jeff and I are going to remember this. He had to pay 90% income tax in the 50s in the 60s. Wow. 90%. Can you imagine that? And he said, Now listen to me, John. Everybody thinks I'm a genius. I thought that burlesque would last forever. But it didn't. I thought radio would last forever. But it didn't. I thought movies would last forever. But it didn't. Either television would last forever. But it didn't didn't. It's never going to and whatever follows television, internet or whatever you call it's never going to last forever. But you know what lasts forever. Jeff, guess what lasts forever. Diamonds. No. Great guess. It's the land that these buildings are built on. And he says my boy, you are sitting. You have your ass on property that I built and own so that when I read it Goshi ated my contract So with NBC, I didn't want to nickel more. I only wanted them to buy my property. And I owned half of Burbank, and you are sitting part of that I'm part of the half that I owned, and I only had to pay 15% taxes on land and not 90% on income. So as a host, and I was and the storyteller that I was, and the best in television has proven by the success of real people, guess what I say to him? Take a guess. What would you say to him? I don't know, John. Okay. I said Mr. Hope, that is a greater story than any movie you ever made. That is a greatest story for America that you could ever tell. And I have another live show. I mean, aside from the news, I do hear at six o'clock at seven o'clock on channel 13. I do John Barbara's half hour live. Now it is time Christmas time. I know you go out and entertain the troops. You must come on my show. Give up the troops just once. And then I said to him, let me ask you a question. And I may embarrass you. And you may say no twice to me what you would break my heart. But when you started entertaining the troops, did you do it to entertain the troops? Or because you knew they were easy labs? And you said John, I'm a comic. And I like to hear easy. laughs You know how hard it was for him to say that? When everybody thought that this guy was his patriotic guy, which indeed he was okay. He said, Well, Mary already be down to channel 13. Now Mary already was this conservative asshole Republican who also had a chip on a show at Channel 13. He's always bugging Bob Hope to be on the show. And Bob's always saying I'm busy. I'm busy. He said I I'll be there if Sam Yordy isn't there. I'll see that the mob carry Sam Yorkie away. I have a few friends. He said I will be there. So Bob Hope shows up. And he's he's not accompanied by anyone. He has a little black satchel in his hand. Now that fella who is the art, the makeup artist at NBC, who does my makeup and Johnny Carson's makeup, and everyone else's makeup, I hired to come there to do Bob Hope's naked. And Bob says no, no, no, thank you very much. I'm going to do my own. And I know I've spent some money to get in there. It's going to be an honor for him to do it. He said John was I was invited bill. I did five shows a day, but not in the same place. And I would get a streetcar, I'd get on a bus or I'd get in a taxi and go to my next day where I made very, very little money doing tap dancing, which was what I wanted to be before I accidentally became a comic. And he said I've been doing my makeup for 60 years. I fell in love with that man. At that time. He came on my show. We are live you go to my site, Jeff, John barbers world.com at Christmas time, instead of watching Santa Claus somewhere you watch Bob Hope and guess what? Not only did he remember his very first joke, so I'm gonna ask you can you remember as a comic, your very first joke? Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 33:32

I remember the very first joke I wrote. Yeah. Okay, tell

John Barbour 33:34

us what your very first joke was because I love comics because that's the one they read.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:39

I gotta wrap up. I was like, I was something about Dennis. I was reading about this dentists drugged and it was based on a news thing. Hang on here. Give me a second. I haven't done this in probably years. I was reading about this. Dennis had drugged and kidnapped and drugged his patient as sex with her for like 30 days. While that's tragic, got me thinking. Maybe sex and dentistry actually had a place together? Because last time I had a root canal. I mean, I can't remember exactly. Because like maybe it's eggs and desert actually had a place together. Last time I had a root canal I totally would have chosen a blow job over Novocaine why a blow job? Because I know because a hand job isn't. It was a hand job. No, no, I know. I know it is. I totally would have chosen a hand job over Novocaine why hand job because a blow job isn't covered by my insurance. There you go.

John Barbour 34:31

Oh my god. That is really really funny. Now that's a kind of filthy funny joke that oh my god that is so oh my god that is just brilliant. Honest to God. Because funny is funny, you know? And that is funny. God. I'd like to hear more than anyway, Bob's on the show. He wanted to be a tap dancer and he had a partner but his partner didn't show up in the headline act didn't show up. And so the owner asked me if I would say something to the crowd. I said, I didn't know what to say. So I just went down there. And I said, you know, whatever came to my mind, and the worst the first thing was about this Scotsman, this farmer I knew wanted to get married, and his wife wanted to get married in the church and see it. He insisted that they get married in the barnyard, otherwise he wouldn't get married. And the reason was, he wanted the chicken seat, the throne rights. So that was a joke. He's got a big show. He said, I liked hearing the laughter. And that's how I became a comic. And then halfway through the show, unplanned, of course, you know, who phones it. We have open phones, but we didn't plan anything. Yes. Who calls? Bing Crosby? Yeah, Bing calls and they want and they go on and on about the days that they met. And the great thing about it is, is that Bob Hope could remember the first sponsor, because he was so into money, whereas Bing Crosby couldn't remember the first girl singer, because he was so into girls, I think is great. So if you go to my site, John Barbara's world.com. And just Google that half hour, you will have what Bob Hope said, was the greatest interview with anybody he ever had in American television.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:25

Sorry to interrupt, have to take a quick break. So glad I could remember my first joke. Without any prep, hope you enjoyed it. And we're back with John Barber.

John Barbour 36:36

And by the way, I loved your joke. Honest to God, even though it was funny, and I can't do filth because I'm just, I'm too old to do it. Okay. I do have some filthy funny jokes, because somebody wants asked me, How can I stay so yawning at 90? And I said, Well, I've discovered the fountain of youth. And they say, What's one of you? And I said, it's the frequent, pleasant expulsion of sperm, especially with someone of a different sex pet on pum, pum pum. So that's about as dirty as you are this naughty as I get. But anyway, what do you want to get to before we say goodbye? Do you want to get to Jim Garrison and John Kennedy? Let's

Jeff Dwoskin 37:20

talk Jim, let's talk talk. JFK. We already solved the murder of Lenny Bruce. So that's one thing right out of the way. And now let's, let's talk JFK, it was fascinating. I watched your first documentary. So there's three, the JFK assassination, the Jim Garrison tapes. That's the first.

John Barbour 37:37

Thank you. Thank you. Thank

Jeff Dwoskin 37:39

you, the American media and the second assassination of President John F. Kennedy and the one you're about to debut John Barber's and William Shakespeare his last word on the murder of JFK. I've always been fascinated with it. I think it's always been an it's probably something that sticks in my head. And I know these are kind of related because of the JFK movie. Because like when you were talking about Jim Garrison, I'm like Kevin Costner. When you're like Clay Shaw, oh, my god, Tommy Lee Jones. I was like, you know, the Roswell like Gary Oldman. Yeah, I mean, so it was like the characters in I can because I never knew who Clay Shaw was before that movie. And I honestly until I started digging in with your JFK material, I didn't realize that JFK the movie was based on Jim Garrison's book, you know, I didn't realize that this was a very literal, specific telling of a point of view. I'll

John Barbour 38:34

be paid $50,000 for the rights to do that book. And a few years later, the garrison family after Mr. Garrison died, had to sue Oliver Stone and Warner Brothers for their 10% profits, which they never got, which proves Jeff and Hollywood, the most talented people are the accountants. And Jimmy Garner, who was a very close friend of mine. His brother was a golf pro at the golf shop. I used to go and hit golf balls that he did The Rockford Files make billions around the world. And he sued universal to get his share of the billions and never got a cent. He literally died of a broken heart can be God. That's a tough, tough, tough, brutal business. And the reason that Jim Garrison chose me over Oliver Stone is because I lost my very first show the am show in Los Angeles when I tried to book him after reading the book of this trial called the heritage of stone. When I saw facts that I was never told that the American media, he had to take time life to the Supreme Court to get the Pruder film. The forensic pathologist named Zinke said there was no autopsy because a general name lawmaker had stopped it all stuff that you never heard of. And then once I booked as soon as I booked him, in spite of the fact that I had the most popular Morning Show in America, got my first Emmy I was fired. And then of course, he and I talked frequently over the next 10 years, especially after I did the Tonight Show with Mr. Sinatra, and he called me. And then when I had real people as the number one show, I read on page 13 of the LA Times that because in 1963, all we saw interest it was Walter Cronkite and Dan Rather and Dan rather's said, I can't show you the film. But here's the bullet hitting him in the back. And his head has been thrown violently forward. While we believe that until 1977 nobody seen the goddamn film, okay. And I offered him $25,000 to come on my movie, to answer one question, who was with you? When you first looked at that film and they told you you had to lie, who and of course he turned me down, turn the $25,000 down. Because he became for doing that he became the $6 million Anchorman to replace Walter Cronkite now in 1977 Geraldo Rivera has dead Gregory and Bob Groden on and they finally see the actual Zapruder film, 5 million people write to Congress, and they are forced to start a new investigation, which is again, sabotage by the CIA. And it's all in the second film. And they replace Richard Sprague who said that he is going to be sending CIA and FBI to jail with a hack named Bob Blakely, a law professor at Columbia, who says the Italians did it. Now you and I know if the Italians in the mafia murder John Kennedy, there is not going to be a pizza parlor in America. They are just Ireland. And only the government can shut down the case and the investigation and it was the government that did that. So it's going now that's interesting that you and I are talking right now, because of Oliver's absolutely magnificent film. Congress passes the record they station eight records assassination act three years ago in October, they're all the files are to be released. Now here we have Donald Trump saying it's all fake news and fake news, et cetera, et and yet, he doesn't even release the CIA files. And then last week, last week, Biden says publicly I'm washing my hands are releasing the CIA files. And last week, the CIA says we are never releasing the CIA files. So my close friend George Knapp in Vegas, who was the Sunday night host of coast to coast calls me says John, that means we'll never know who did it. I said we do know, Garrison, it's in my film. We name the names of the killers, it's in the film. Now, the interesting thing is that I spent the first two films you saw the first one, right? Yes. And that's Jim Garrison telling his story unhindered, with me assisting him and telling his story. Did you see the second one? The American media?

Jeff Dwoskin 43:41

I haven't seen the second one. But I will see, it'll blow you out of the water. There is

John Barbour 43:46

so much more truth in that. Okay. That's again, Jim telling his story uninterrupted by the law or by the media. But the third film?

Jeff Dwoskin 43:56

Well, John, one thing in the first film that I found fascinating was, you mentioned in 1967, that only Jim Garrison thought the CIA did it, and that in 1992 51% of those surveyed in the United States, 51% thought that the CIA killed JFK. To me, that was like a really cool stat. What

John Barbour 44:17

you want to hear more interesting stat, of course, build. Okay. When I'm trying to book him on the show in 1970, it's just four years after the Warren report comes out. And he said, John, did you see the latest Harris Poll 82% of all Americans do not believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, or did it at all. And I said, My God with those numbers, why aren't they storming the barricades of bullshit in Washington and knocking the doors down? And he chuckled that great chuckle of his. And he said, Well, you didn't see the second question in the Harris Poll. And I said, Well, what was the second question? And he says the second question. Would you like to see a much deeper investigation ended the assassination of John Kennedy, where we question and investigate both the CIA and the FBI. And he said get was, guess what the percentage was then a nice 40% 50%. He said, No. 22% What does that tell you about the American people? And without missing a beat Jeff, I said, You know what it says to me, I know what my mother and father, get in the rumble seat in the car, or on the pool table in the bedroom couldn't see me. But do not ever tell me. My mother is not a virgin. Well, he howled with laughter. And that eventually became the title of my book. That case is so absolutely and totally solved. But listen, and I urge Oliver Stone, his second documentary is about to ship, you know, who is one of the CO hosts? I didn't know we had did it. Second one. It's a documentary. One of the CO hosts is what the Goldberg What does she know about the assassination of John Kennedy? She didn't say a fucking word about the murder of Martin Luther King. As a matter of fact, corretta King won a criminal case. Her lawyer was William pepper a friend of mine, who was Sir hand sir hands lawyer, Caretta, King sued the United States government and the FBI for complicity and murdering her husband. And she won the case, not a one American newspaper, not a magazine, not a television camera. Was there no one black reporter not even know what P Goldberg only did Gregory was there? And guess how much money Coretta asked for when she was offered millions to be quiet? I'm gonna guess nothing. She asked for only $1,000, which was the cost to bury her husband. And William Pepper's book, the death of the king proves that Martin Luther King was not shot by a gunshot to the chin. I mean, he was smothered to death in a hospital by three guys in black suits. And he has witnesses to prove it. It's in a spellbinding book, The killing of the king. There. Listen, everything that went wrong with this country. Jeff, happened on November 22 1963. It is a cold case at the Justice Department. You unravel that Pandora's box, you solve everything. Now, I spent a half a million dollars, I lost two of the greatest shows in the history of television, telling his story. I was rewarded everywhere. The hundreds of 1000s of dollars I raised for gym scholarship were stolen from me. Okay. So there are two parallel stories in this movie, this final documentary that are spellbinding. One is the 53 years, I tried to tell Jim story on television, and the 53 years that I spent trying to be a terrific American citizen to give back to the country that adopted me and gave me a light and to be a success in television, which I was, in spite of all the problems I had. Listen, there were hundreds of people trying to keep me even out of the business from Johnny Carson on. But the more they pounded me, the more I succeeded. And it's all in my book, and all you got on my site, you will see stuff that nobody in the history of television has ever duplicated, or will ever duplicate it. It's information. It's comedy, it's storytelling. It's absolutely everything. And on the 25th of November, which is a Saturday, my wife and my son, my son is the executive producer of Criminal Minds, he and my wife, forgive me a Christmas present. I'm going down there on that Saturday to be at the one o'clock screening, the 330 screening and the 730 screening to meet and greet and do a q&a with those people who may might be interested in like you and talking to me about my Garrison films. They're

Jeff Dwoskin 49:22

fascinating, like, do you think what would happen is approved or denied filament? Like that had me like that seems to be like the thing, right, like everything else is is but it's the film that seems which now we know in this day and age, even what you see, nobody believes but even back then, you know, that was it was very clear what was being said and what's in that film, which is probably why it was withheld right for so long, but tells a completely different story.

John Barbour 49:49

Oh my god. Well, I'm going to tell you, one of the Bill Hicks great greatest jokes about the Zapruder film, and he said the show You have powerful the military is over the president and the president does not run the country when LBJ is elected, is they call him up and say, Lyndon, come on over here minute, we want to show you something. So when the gun goes over to the Pentagon system with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and then they say to him, we want to show you a little movie, and then they show him the film of the assassination, which is not the Zapruder film. That is one of the greatest jokes ever written about the assassination, which means the CIA filmed it. And I would not be surprised if they filmed it from satellite. They want it was a public execution. They wanted it out there. I mean, they could have poisoned him for God's sake. You know, he was a philanderer, he, you know, they could have hired beautiful hookers and Adam poison, they wanted his head publicly blown off as a warning to anyone who thinks that they are going to tell the bankers and the investors and the Mattel military and the half a dozen families that own the Federal Reserve, there's no such thing as a Federal Reserve. That's not a private Bay. That's a public bank. It's owned by six families. And we don't pay income tax to pay for the army or the roads, or the telephones or hospitals. That goes as interest to private bankers, who are funding our continual fake wars. It is all bullshit. It's all the Ponzi scheme. We have become what Ronald Reagan used to call Russia, the evil empire. And if you don't see it, you're looking at America through Helen Keller's and Stevie Wonder's eyes.

Jeff Dwoskin 51:54

Blind, you're blind for those who didn't get the reference? Hey, exactly.

John Barbour 51:58

I just want to thank you so much. I almost feel like a professor or lecturer. And I'm always almost yelling at a student in your My student, you know, because you get well, I wasn't born that I wasn't born that. But I'm telling you, my wife and I lived through the golden age of politics, which was when John Kennedy was president, we lived through the golden age of movies. 1939 was the greatest year for American movies. And in the 50s and 60s and early 70s, especially the early 70s. We live through the greatest Age of Television Do you think television could do all in the family again today? And be as honest as you don't even remember all I

Jeff Dwoskin 52:42

loved on the family hang? Okay, so

John Barbour 52:44

there you go. There you go. Hey, could not do that today in American television. They couldn't even do Sanford and Son today in American television. Everything

Jeff Dwoskin 52:55

is a product of its times. And yes. At this time, those likely wouldn't fit in at the moment. I did have one last thing I just wanted to leave on. And I do love all these stories is I watched your just under four minute clip of you talking about the the Munich Olympics massacre. Oh,

John Barbour 53:14

wow. Interesting, cause you're so smart. Thank you, you

Jeff Dwoskin 53:18

know, as as a Jew, it brought me to tears. I was because this is in 1972 and listening to it. And it's 51 years later, uh, you could have, it could have just the words could have been switched for what's happening now. And it's unfortunately just as true today. All the insights that you had on that and great commentary that you made. It was it was really interesting to watch and sad at the same time. Not I mean, I was happy that you said it and brought that brought those words to life. Oh, sad that 52 years later, it's nothing's really changed. You got a

John Barbour 53:51

story about where it came about is in the book. As a result of that I got a call from Neil Simon, he was being honored, giving the heart of Israel award that they don't know tel. And he wanted me to come and be the emcee. And that film that you mentioned, became the official fundraising film for two years for the United Jewish Appeal, raised $35 million. And they planted a tree in Israel in my name. So hopefully, it's still there. And hopefully, it grew. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 54:23

they do a good job, even though it's trees going in Israel.

John Barbour 54:27

Yeah, there you go. John, thank

Jeff Dwoskin 54:29

you so much. This has been an amazing time to spend with you. Thank you. Oh,

John Barbour 54:33

and thank you and listen, you spend some time at my website. And if you send me your address, I will send you the book because the stories in it are just endlessly interesting, entertaining. And when I say it's the best book ever written about anybody in show business, it indeed is if

Jeff Dwoskin 54:54

you don't say sell yourself Awesome. Well, thank you, John, all these stories, all these things that we broke live, oh, like

John Barbour 55:07

you know what you should do? You should go to Okay. You're a comic. You can Google me, John Barbara and Merv Griffin Show. Or you can Google me on artlink letters talent scout show, and it's in black and white. And it has part of my first act when I was starting. And it's really funny. And one of the lines was my mother's Jewish and my father's scotch, which proves you can mix anything with scotch. And I had a real problem as a kid because I went to kiss synagogue. I was the only kid with a plaid skullcap and you'd have no idea how tough it is to play. I'm gonna get lung the bagpipes. So, but anyway, you go to those two sites as a comic, you watch that. That's really funny stuff. It was funny then, and it's funny now.

Jeff Dwoskin 55:58

You're a classic. John, thank you so much. Wellness. Thank

John Barbour 56:02

you so much. Thank you, Jeff. I really love being with you. Thank you.

Jeff Dwoskin 56:06

All right. That was John Barber. A lot of information to take in. Definitely check out his documentaries dive in do your own investigation, they become up with the same conclusions. So many great stories from his years as a comic, definitely check out his memoir. All the links are in my show notes. Check them all out. All right, well, with the interview over that can only mean one thing I know. Another episode has come to an end. Thanks again to my special guest, John Barber. And of course, thanks to all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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