#260 Alex Hyde-White Is Just An Actor From Detroit

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:29

Rebecca, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get this show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 260 of classic conversations. As always, I'm your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Welcome to what's sure to be the greatest episode in the history of episodes and I'm not stretching the truth. Well, maybe I'm stretching but only because Alex Hyde white the original Reed Richards is here from Roger Corman is fantastic for That's right. We're going deep into that and Alex's book in the volume my life and film and TV a lot of great stories coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds. Jan Karen was my guest last week. She's awesome. She's an awesome comedian. She gets it I one of the most iconic Seinfeld episodes ever where she was voted Seinfeld's number one TV girlfriend but check that conversation out but not before you check out this conversation with Alex Hyde white are talking about pretty woman a toy. Roger Corman is fantastic for the unreleased 9094 movie based on the Fantastic Four. It's been pirated since 1994. I have my own copy. I've always been fascinated with this. And it was an honor to talk to Alex all about it. And a lot more tons of great stories coming atcha right now. All right, everyone, I'm excited to introduce you to my next guest, actor, author of in the volume detailing his 40 year career I've done in Pretty Woman, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, bagels adventures in time and of course, the original, Mr. Fantastic. Welcome to the show Alex Hyde. Why

Alex Hyde-White 2:18

wow, I was in all those movies was I thank you,

Jeff Dwoskin 2:20

your your work. I wanted to start with the most important question up front, which is in Pretty Woman. How many times did Julia squeezed the snails? I mean, take us to that. Yeah,

Alex Hyde-White 2:35

you know, they didn't they didn't really know how to do it. We had a three day shoot at the restaurant and it was a walking in establishing and round and round. So it was plenty of time two and a half days probably. And when they got to the snail gag. I think Gary ended up just saying all right now throw it and so once you had that, then you sort of went back a bit and did whatever kind of sleight of hand needed to squeeze but like I say we had plenty of time and you know as you know, if at first you don't succeed squeezing a snail try and try again.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:03

Exactly. It was a good scene and a pretty woman Ralph Bellamy, you Julia Roberts, and of course, Richard Gere,

Alex Hyde-White 3:11

it was Ralph's last film. And Gary was worried about the scene, he thought he didn't quite know if the audience would get it. And so we had some time after the third day, and he had me sit across from Richard and just sort of do a bunch of wild mines exposition, and some of them made it and some of them didn't. But I remembered actually saying to Richard, what are you The Wolf of Wall Street? And Gary? Oh, I like that Wolf of Wall Street. He didn't use it. But I some Scorsese did, I think a few years ago, so there was some a lot of times when there's a lot of good material that isn't used. It's a way of sort of illustrating how good the film was because it was very much an intuitive shoot in the hands of Gary, the director, you know, he had a good feel for it for the material. And of course, he cast it beautifully with Julian and Richard.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:02

It's a classic when I was watching your polo scene, and I was thinking, Oh, Alex has two solid pieces of swag. He could have some kind of fantastic for sure. And then also the polo shirt. The number two Yeah,

Alex Hyde-White 4:15

the you know, they didn't let me take the polo shirt, but I got the boots. Right, you

Jeff Dwoskin 4:18

got it. You got to take the winds where you can get him I guess.

Alex Hyde-White 4:21

Yeah, you learn very early on. As I say in the book, you learned very early on that most important people at the studio or the guard at the front gate, and then the of course the cameraman and if you can get along with the props and wardrobe, then they're quite happy to give you souvenirs.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:36

That's awesome. One of the things I read was that you saw Tom Petty two weeks before he passed away. I live with the regret that I didn't see him the last time he was in Michigan. And it was a bit of a chance you'd never been to a petty concert. You know, it was one of those things where I was like I was supposed to go to a petty concert and I couldn't go so my friend went and then he ended up getting black seats and the seats were obscured and so we ended without getting fried Don Henley tickets so I ended up seeing Don Henley as a result. And then later I think maybe I just wasn't paying attention and like so is the big anniversary to work game around. And the people we wanted to go with are like it's expensive. And I'm like, Wow, all right. I'll see him next time.

Alex Hyde-White 5:15

It ended up being Yeah, it was expensive in the end, you know, that's like a contest. You know, your first prize is a is one ticket to Don Henley second prize two tickets to Don Henley. There's no comparison Petey was was great. You know, I'm of an age where I started in what 7078 to 80 in under contract at Universal and you know, he was under contract universal at the same time. And you know, he made a big, big deal out of it. But that's when really he started to come of age in a live touring. And he was a quintessential American songwriter, you know, from Gainesville, Florida, but he really called La his home. And he didn't have the California sound he you know, sort of it was very unique. I felt that if you were a fan of sort of southern culture, you were a fan of petty and if you were a fan of Northern culture, you were a Springsteen fan, and you couldn't really be both. It was very interesting, but I'd seen a lot of Tom Petty shows from when I was like, 20 years old, I didn't even probably a couple dozen. But yeah, I was there in the last show, because I got to know through golf, a golf friend of mine was Scotty Thurston, who was Petty's second guitar player for like the last 15 years. So you know, we were I was with the band, and we were friends and family for a long time, my boy, he's now 21, when he's three months old, he was actually in the wings at Santa Barbara, which is actually a very quiet place when you're in the wings on stage. But you're right, the cost was exorbitant was almost three, it was like 260 bucks for the ticket. And I just went by myself at the Hollywood Bowl. It was the last show of the six month tour or something like that. I remember my wife, Shelley said, how was it? I go, you know, I think I've seen my last Tom Petty show. That was the only because, you know, I just kind of grew up the band, and it's almost a way of almost growing out of it. It was so wonderful that they were so great. But little did I know that I was absolutely right. And it was one of the things that helped me shut the door on La really was Petey died Will Smith slaps Chris Rock at the Oscars, they shut everything down. Casting became remote. And I sort of said, Hey, wait a minute. This isn't Hollywood anymore. It's not a must stay. So a little over a year ago, we loaded up the truck and moved to Pensacola. Alright, there's a good long story for you.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:22

I loved every second of it. So I had no contract, go back in time. You're 18 years old contract player Universal Studios.

Alex Hyde-White 7:29

Yeah, I was 19 from 19 to 21. So that would have been was born in 59. So that would have been 78 to 80. Jaws, I think was like what 76 Star Wars was 7677 It was a great time to be a part of American movies. I wanted to fly jets in space. And that's what they created by the original Battlestar Galactica to do that, and they were hiring boys to fly and I ended up being one of them. It only lasted I think maybe a season maybe not even did three episodes, I think bounced around did a lot of Quincy shows some other sort of TV movies. It was two years before a damn writers strike went on strike for six months or no was the actor strike then. But it was a great way to get started because I felt like I belong. And it was a lot of fun. And it makes up a good early portion of my book. And funnily enough, I spoke to Jamie Lee Curtis about a couple of months ago because he come in to my audio studio to do something. And I hadn't connected with her in ages. And she she called me she was done. We had a good catch up. And I sent her the book and she had vivid memories. And she said if it hadn't been for getting a contract, she was a contract player. At the same time. She said to me, if if you know if I hadn't got that contract, I don't know if I really would have gone into the business. You know, here she is. She's like the most likely to succeed. She won herself an Oscar, which was amazing, which was wonderful. So you know, longevity, but it was a heck of a way to get started. It was really it was close to being old Hollywood, it really was.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:51

Did you grow up wanting to be an actor and your father was an actor as well.

Alex Hyde-White 8:55

No, you know, it's a bit of both. I mean, you know, it's like, if you grow up the son of a pharmacist, do you want to be a pharmacist? No, you just want to steal drugs. I mean, you know, I was comfortable with the job of an actor, seeing it recognize the sort of off stage work that went into the onstage kind of celebration, but I didn't, I didn't like the lifestyle. It seemed very manufactured. Little did I know that once I got to be 16 years old, out of high school in Palm Springs, because I graduated pretty early, which was that difficult for Palm Springs, but I was a precocious fella, that most of the world seems to be slightly misrepresented. And so I fell back on my I went to Georgetown and go you know, I like government. I liked the classical architecture. I liked that thing. And then I realized it was more about celebrity and and sort of the star culture and being close to the flame and all of that bit. La was a desert California was my home. And I just thought were very similar skill sets. So I left Georgetown at age 17 After one year and never looked back. You know, so technically, I'm a college dropout. But it also put me on a path of never ending learning which Being an actor is a wonderful thing. Because as you know, I'm half English, I'm half American and half something else. I enjoy the research, I enjoy the preparation, I enjoy the off stage, sort of outside of the lines, work of storytelling, which I've now incorporated into audiobooks, which is terrific, I love producing. So I couldn't see any other path really, for myself, unless it was like real estate sales, which is predatory. And I did a bit of that. So personal empowerment, I suppose, was my thing. And I was just hoping I was going to be lucky enough to be able to stay at it. Lots of lots of peaks, several peaks, lots of valleys. That's what my MacBook ended up, not so much being it was a celebration of my life, and film and TV, not so much a celebration of my life, but a celebration of the film and TV and ancillary projects I've been a part of, but it was almost a survivor's tale a bit. He was interesting, it sort of came. It's a story about time, in a way spread over 43 years, and how things sort of repeat, very interesting world, the world that now we call pop culture and where everybody's a celebrity. And when I started out with one foot in that analog way, you know, there was really no such thing as celebrities, you were famous because you were good at something and you were fairly well liked. or less or less, you were infamous for all the wrong reasons. And now it seems such a crowded field that celebrity is. So it's like a agenesis or a species a bit.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:30

So there's so many different paths now that didn't exist them like Tic Tac, or YouTube and stuff like that. And these people can become social media famous. Yeah,

Alex Hyde-White 11:40

yeah. Well, now my YouTube was become independent film, when I was in my 30s and 40s, I was lucky to produce a couple independent movies when it was still sort of a market there for and now a lot of films are made a micro budget, and they're lucky to get distribution on YouTube or, I mean, now nowadays, if you have a film of which I have to have them out initially on Amazon Prime, or Netflix or Apple TV, it's considered a release and you know, very rare film like No, which I had a little party last summer, you know, that's a big blockbuster studio release. But that used to be it. There were studio movie. I mean, there was no other there was no such thing or a TV movie, and all of my work, except in the last the first 20 years, all of my work came in that old fashioned way, highlighted after 10 years in the business when was pretty woman 90 It was 89 it was released in 90. So I've been in 10 years, I got my 10 year pin was pretty woman. And that was what 30 years ago, just keeps getting better and better. It's almost like the fantastic original Fantastic Four, which is the opposite of pretty woman. I mean, you know, an accidental flop that actually ended up being a heck of a good story. Whereas pretty woman, it was an accidental hit that just keeps growing and growing. But there's a lot of similarity in the two that they remade the old fashioned way.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:53

In the book. You talk about your father a lot Wilfried, you never acted in the same scenes together. But you were in some Battlestar Galactica, Buck Rogers, your same shows you at least you watch each other at work?

Alex Hyde-White 13:06

Well, I watched him a lot. Because you know, from my sort of seminal years as a young, sort of from the ages of 12 to 1516. We'd go on the road with him wherever he was doing a summer stock show or more or play in England. And so you know, I really grew up in the theater. And yes, I would watch him and he had a wonderful technique. But he also had a very, almost a superstitious, neurotic nervous system and it was very hard for him to manage both. That kind of was a warning to me a bit. I you know, it was almost as if, I don't know like some athletes or some tennis players. For instance, I play a lot of tennis in order to get their best they feel they have to make it difficult. Peter Sellars was like that as well, who was a wonderful English chameleon, and was a great friend of dads. And so I was lucky to have a bird's eye view of talented characters such as sellers and my dad. But they weren't normal people. They weren't regular people. My dad lived a long time, at eight years old, but it was you know, his last 10 years were sad. He was alone. I don't know if it was worth it. And sellers died young, broken heart. It's such an attractive business that everybody wants to be not everybody. God bless, I hope 90% of your audience are happy living their lives day to day taking care of their families. Because at the end of it all, I think even the very successful actors that I have come across, they value their life more if they have the trappings of norm of normality of normalcy. Um, getting out of LA for me, was very interesting because it gave me an hour perspective. I can see how the chase sometimes it's all about the chase, I'm proud maybe working in the financial sector in New York to is you know, you're always trying to go after where you think the power is just my original original attraction perhaps to working in Washington. I mean, you know, we're seeing things now because have instant news and instant opinion, we've substituted opinion for journalism for reporting. And so we have a real hard time of discerning where a moderate point of view is about so many things. But it became so bad in Hollywood in California. I joke when I say, you know, Tom Petty died and Chris Rock got set to the Oscars, and the governor shut down the state. Okay, well, some going on. And I got out of it. And I was lucky because I feel like I get to live a life now that is more meaningful. And it's not just about the chase, hoping that something good happens. You can spend your whole you can spend a lot of time and this is I think the danger of this sort of culture of micro culture of celebrity is that we celebrate everything. I did this, I did that. I had a movie come out. The director tagged me on Facebook. So here I go, you know, hey, I'm in a movie. But at least I said, Hey, here's a really neat, independent family film, a throwback to old indie. It was fun to be a part of it. So you know, I'm being hypocritical because yes, I spread the word. But I tried to put the film I tried to put the work ahead of my achievement. But same in that film. Oh, it's called the search for Tom Sawyer is gold. It's one of these little things that you don't think twice of except, you know, you go and do your job, and if the second time with producers, so they were good guys, I enjoyed him. It was a part that Val Kilmer was supposed to play the wraparound sort of Narrator Mark Twain ish character. And as you may know, Val had a wonderful one man show that he put together about Mark Twain that I ended up seeing in Pasadena several years ago. And Val and I started out we had our first play was together in 83 in New York, and I always enjoyed admired watching him.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:43

Sorry to interrupt, had to take a quick break. Thank you for your support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my conversation with Alex Hyde white, we're going to talk a little bit more about Val,

Alex Hyde-White 16:58

there's a there's an interesting character like Tim, you know, he made it difficult on himself. But you know, there was a time there that he was a he was a Greek god in our business as a young actor. And he couldn't, you know, of course, he couldn't play the part because he's physically unable now. So it was great to be able to step into that and do it. It was Mark Twain kind of characters both supposed to be the great grandson of JJ Harper, who was Samuel Clemens friend, and so he's going to help you find Tom Sawyer is gold by showing you the map kind of thing. And that was all I did. I spent a day doing these four or five scenes that they intersperses the narrator, and then they sent me the trailer just a couple days ago on and I looked down and got my gosh, this looks great. And my agent says, Oh, wow, we're so glad you're in a family film. And it's kind of like what I'm saying. The film business has become so populated now with almost anything because you know, you can make so much stuff that it's still hard to find. But you know, a good old fashioned old fashioned family film, it might end up being good. It was crazy. It's almost like going down the road and finding the $50 bill. It was lucky. And then the then the second film I got coming out is a nice film. It should be good. It's a knives out kind of murder mystery, a period mystery starring the wonderful Misha Bart who was quite a starlet in her 20s. And now she's becoming a really nice leading character actress. She's sort of like a young Angela Lansbury. And in this Agatha Christie kind of films that 1930s England where I play sort of mysterious Butler in a double part, classic Agatha Christie style, similar to what my dad played in 10 Little Indians. So you know, it's interesting, really how things come around. I mean, I've got this tom sawyer film where I'm dripping from the magnolias, and then I'm the rather reserved upper crust Butler, who you make sure you don't piss off in the other film all and so, lo and behold, this one's called invitation to a murder. So I'm plugging to movies.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:53

Awesome. So yeah, I read in your book that you were friends with Val. Yeah. His documentary was incredible.

Alex Hyde-White 18:59

I'm so glad you read the book. Yeah, I saw that documentary. It was I wish it would have been more about his work his career, you know, he was a bright, bright light, some wonderful, wonderful stuff. I mean, how he backed his dad on a failed real estate deal and things like that. At least my father didn't really have an estate or much for to mess up. He was very interesting. I learned things about Ballard. I didn't know I knew he's from Chatsworth, he he was the I think he was the grand nephew of the poet was at Joyce Kilmer, a wonderful American poet in the 30s.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:35

I know that you mentioned Peter Sellers. In the book, your quick story, how PSL is called the house you answered. And he wanted to talk to your dad and to ask them to be in a movie and I just it was just it was just a funny thing. Yeah, picture in my head. I was like, Hey, Dad Peters on Yeah,

Alex Hyde-White 19:53

I mean, you know, exactly. Yeah, I was living in a little apartment near universal, I think my second year of the contract. and the phone rang. And of course, I was downstairs sleeping on the sofa cuz my dad was doing something here in Hollywood and they were auditioning for something or we're negotiating for them. So he's upstairs and at least it was a little townhome and the phone rang. poche Yeah, it's Peter Peter Sellers. Hey, Peter, this and I'm on a yacht in the south of France. So we might be sort of having trouble here with the line. I might ring off any minute. Is your dad there? Yeah. Hold on, dad. It's Peter. And I mean, yeah, literally, it was it was funny.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:27

You mentioned your butler. And so I'm gonna tie that to your dad being the shofar show for Butler in the toy, which you were in as well, which is I love that movie, the toy but I love story. In the book about improving a line saying you were from Detroit, actually.

Alex Hyde-White 20:45

Yes, that's right. Just an actor in Detroit. I don't know how to work a camera and Jackie. Oh, and it was this huge shot. There's a set piece of a shot at the end of the day at the governor's mansion in Raleigh in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where we were filming where Pryor and Scottie Swartz are in the race cars and they come down and they trip all the wires that are holding the tents up for this big sort of fundraiser and Gleason's plays this local, you know, big boss kind of character and he's trying to find something on the governor or whoever the guy is, and I'm just the photographer and he and in the script, he just he sort of, everything's moving, okay, it's like a tracking shot. Everything is moving big, big shot. And he comes by to me and I got my moment. He said, Did you get the picture and that game, there's no dialogue. I go, and I you know, I just think I fuck it. He can keep moving. I go, No, I'm just an actor from Detroit. I really don't know how to you know, I'm expecting just keep on going. It's no big deal. And he stops the bloody shot. And I knew that's me. And Dick Donner jumps up from behind Alex, what the hell are you doing? So the prop guys, they didn't care because you know, Gleason he was a he was one of these guys. I'm telling you. He was Jackie Gleason. But people thought he was a pain in the ass to be around. And I guess by the time they got to this moment, they didn't care that the kid was making Gleason do it again. So they rerigged the whole thing. We did the shot. He comes by and I just say oh, whatever, and we get the shot. And that's a wrap. It's a summer's day in Louisiana. So it's not gonna get dark forever. And Dick Donner comes over to he says Alex, why don't you get a ride home with us. So I'm in a motorhome with Dick Donner and last Kovacs and a couple other people. And Donner tells me this story about a young actor who made a name for himself because he was daring enough to improv on a war movie, and he explains the scene and it's in the book, and it's said Sinatra, the gangway and the Jeep comes in and bubblegum and a comic book nylon around the whole thing. And, you know, probably, it's just folklore. Apparently, it was Steve McQueen. Okay, so I just remembered that story. And I put it in the book. I don't know whether you know, this is Hollywood man. Doesn't have to be true, but it's a hell of a good story. And Dick Donner the part where Donner says, Come on, get a ride home with us. That's true. Last Kovacs, that cameraman worked with some wonderful cameras. They were laughing they thought it was funny that I was messing with the big guy. I was just an actor from Detroit. How do I don't get those Nikon cameras are hard to use. Come on.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:13

No, they are. I'd say it's near impossible.

Alex Hyde-White 23:18

The that was an episode and I named my chapters episodes, you see, and that was the episode was called short pants. Because my friend of mine, well, my parents friend fell on him, Howard Montgomery, who kind of was my mentor. He was kind of my OB one when my parents were AWOL for a few years, got me into golf and was really a great mentor. I told him that story. And he said he put a Gleason put the short pants on. Yeah. So that's what that means.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:42

Your book is great. And I love how you wrote it. I love that you weren't afraid to kind of encapsulate the other things that were going on is not just about the Civic, just Alex, like if you're working with someone you could go off on a tangent about and things that happened to other people and other things that were happening and culture at the time. It was a really unique way to write it. I like how you broke it into seasons. And then those chapters that you mentioned, kind of under there, it was really enjoyable. It's very different than I think any other kind of memoir that I've read really, really enjoyable.

Alex Hyde-White 24:17

I'm really happy to hear you say that. Thank you. I'm not important enough as an actor or well known enough as a celebrity with a small c to justify writing my memoir. So it really I just wanted to remember these stories and put them down because they were a lot of them were just just magnificent. And I was a part of them as an actor. I was a part of them. When there was silence on the set when the work was just growing was sprouting forth and some good, some bad, it doesn't matter. They're all the same. Just like this little quest for Tom Sawyer's gold. You know, it's all video these days. It's all digital information. In fact, they tried to dirty up the picture to give it some character. And it's always been that way it was whether it was 35 millimeter film, or even when we were doing the Jordan Peele movie, they shot that thing on 65 millimeter. And they were changing film reels almost every two shots, but the end result is the same. And that's what the wonderful sort of through line on the on the original Fantastic Four is, it may never have meant to be made, it may never meant to be shown. But in between those two absolutes is the actual making of the film. And that film stock, if it's lit correctly, and most of it was is going to be just as good and the Justice potentially good or bad as any other film that's being made that year. And that's when actors like myself and the other cast members, that's when we we were happy to be there. And that's what shows in that film, whether the the sets are shaky or the special effects is non existent. It doesn't matter. There is a there is a joy in the making of that film that is palpable. And that is why people like coming up to me when they see me at a convention or whatnot, and tell me how they discovered it. That gives me as much satisfaction as when somebody says boy, you are a real jerk and pretty woman like it. Well no, wait a minute. That was Jason Alexander. Let's go back. Oh, yeah. Okay, wait a minute.

Jeff Dwoskin 26:16

He was a real jerk wasn't it and that Yeah, yeah, it

Alex Hyde-White 26:19

didn't it didn't do him any harm though. No, no, no, I

Jeff Dwoskin 26:22

Well, since we're not meeting at Comic Con we're meeting here allow me to share my story. So I was aware of the Fantastic Four movie and I was my big thing is I love going to Comic Cons love. Yes. As you can kind of see my background. I got a bunch of Yeah, you know, and meeting the actors getting the autographs everything. And so I have in my hands showed it to you before but I have the VHS tape, which is obviously a bootleg. It's on a t 120 Maxwell if that wants to impress anyone, anyone can Google what that is anyway what it was like what's the VHS Max Max? Oh, yeah, it's nothing but the quality and sticker which you know, it's hand put on. It's a handwritten Duff fantastic for live action movie $10 You have probably something like that. And so I watched I watched it again. Actually, before we talked I watched on YouTube though, because I don't even have a VHS player anymore. No, now I just did get a

Alex Hyde-White 27:18

DVD. You can get a DVD. There was actually blu rays made of it as well. Oh, yeah. bootlegs. I get things sent every once in a while, but they're all bootlegs.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:26

So I was interviewing Gail and heard recently she Oh, wow. Good. She says during the interview, she goes I don't know if you know this, but Roger Corman made a Fantastic Four movie like gal know what I got in my basement? Knowing I'm talking to you in like a week or two. Oh, good. So let's let's talk about this. This movie. There's so much about it. I watched I rewatched. The movie and I rewatched doomed because I had seen that a while ago. I probably did a good job with that documentary. Yeah, yeah. Doomed. The Untold Story of Roger Corman's, the fantastic for such a fascinating story. So they have they come to Roger Corman and trauma films, like where they need to get this movie made. Constantine films needs to get it made. Lose the rights.

Alex Hyde-White 28:15

Yeah. I never really knew too much about the trauma angle. I mean, I'm sure but that's true that we had to hurry up and start production before the end of the calendar year. So I remember the audition was sort of mid November. And I think right, either the day before or the day after Thanksgiving was the first day of filming. And we needed to start principal photography for the end of the calendar year, which was 1992.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:38

When you got this role. What did it mean to you? Personally,

Alex Hyde-White 28:42

you know, it's like winner. It's like winning a tournament only in this one a was straight to the finals. The hardest part of getting work as an actor, particularly a young actor is stringing together good auditions you do the first audition can be quite easy, because the stakes are low. And that's just to cast somebody wanting to champion you. And then they say, Hey, this is good. Then you got a second one, you meet somebody who's actually either written the show or in a position of authority. Hey, that's good. And then you start going to network or the director or whatnot. And the artist thing, especially if you are a person who thinks that you need to control things, which is a lot of my book talks about that the difference between influence and control. It can be very stressful, but I always liked independent film because I'm a very much a listen and respond kind of I don't know whether I'm a visual or aural, or I don't know, but I mean, it's words on paper, so maybe I'm visual. I think it's my experience growing up in the theater where everything only ever happens once and the great rub about being to quote a successful theatre actor so that the stage manager doesn't get on your butt every night when you're on the road is you got to do the show the same way. Well, why? Well, because everybody's relaxed. No, you see Peter O'Toole. You see Wilford hideway You'd see these Richard Harris on stage. They might be doing Pygmalion. They might Doing Camelot or something, but no, no, no, no, you are watching that performance. And it's only that and that night only. Okay. So that, to me is what film is about. I used to love auditioning for independent film. Because if I was right for something, you know, it was like being in the finals and I was playing well, is it Wow. And I suppose with fantastic horror, compounded by their sense of urgency to cast. I know, I walked out of that room, in hindsight, with the job offer. It might be that as simple as as soon as I walked into the room, they were ready to offer it. Because it just, it was right. It was like winning a tournament, but I only had to play one match. It's like the old actor's story comes home. He says, I got good news. And I got great news. The wife says what? What's the good news is I got the part she goes, Well, what's a great news? I don't have to work tomorrow.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:45

You are great Reed Richards. Hashtag my Reed Richards.

Alex Hyde-White 30:49

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, well, thank you, you won't know the film was so minimized for so many years that I never even in my mind, it was just a so it was nothing. And it that was a great shame. Because I loved I love being that character. It wasn't a stretch for me. Seriously, because read it all the stretching, you see. And I just felt instinctively since that script kind of felt a dealt with the psychological or the metaphysical, or what's the word the it dealt with the interior life, these four smart, bright people, their shortcomings, their way of being. And Reid is just wanting to take care of everything, wanting always to be making sure everybody's safe, making sure everybody's fine. He's like, an Amish father or something. Only he lives in a world where there is television and newspapers, and there's modern world. And so I just felt that read sort of stasis, his sense of being was that he was extending himself to make sure everybody could do their best. And that's a very self less quality, not really thinking about yourself. And I love that. I love that about the character. And I thought the dialogue was fun. It was typical sort of 1950s there's a there's no, there's a flying saucer in the sky, kind of on the nose dialogue. But again, growing up in the theater. I wasn't afraid of any of this. It was a great part for me. It hit it been released. Would I have had a career as low budget you know, adventure leading man. I don't know there really wasn't such a thing. I mean, you know, it was a one time thing and the fact here we are over 30 years later, we are propagating the myth of it. You know, this is one of those instances where when what is it when the truth becomes the myth you print the myth? I think that's in the book too. One

Jeff Dwoskin 32:39

of the things I got out of watching doomed was how important getting this was for all of you winning ticket winning lottery ticket if you will, to become like say imagine like this is a type of thing these leading roles when an actor gets them it's a huge huge deal. And this was like rightfully so. Oh, fantastic for a huge property. In Marvel a lot of buzz at the time, right Cameron's talking about Spider Man is early 90s. Wesley Snipes Black Panther was craving Dr. Strange, right? So this is gonna fit right into it. And you're like, Fantastic Four is like the cornerstone of Marvel. Right? And and so when that kind of gets to the end where you you learn oh, maybe this movie was never even meant to be released like nobody intended it they just created it. I felt so bad for for like what was that? That emotional kind of Cliff like for all of you because it must have been just been forget that the movie doesn't didn't get shelved. I'm sure that happens. But it was like this seem to be like an emotional roller coaster for all of you as well like to be so close. Well,

Alex Hyde-White 33:46

movies don't get shelf scripts. Sometimes we'd get bought you write a script, Fantastic Voyage or something. But they're going to already do one but yours is pretty close. So they might option your script and they buy your script so that you know there isn't a lawsuit that used to have films don't get films, films get made. And then then they either get released, or they don't they don't get shelved. They don't get purposely not released. And that's exactly where we fell with this film. It was good enough for BirdEye Khunjerab new Constantine to bluff Fox by saying you know I'm Roger and having Roger on ready to go Roger we did reshoots, a couple of months later, and we change the ending a bit or we just enhanced the ending, and Roger Corman witness spent $15,000 on reshoots, if he knew that this movie was going to be zipped so a film being a disappointment happens more than a film being satisfying as an actor, particularly if you're in the leading role which maybe half a dozen times supporting roles you know, a pretty woman Catch me if you can know to be a part of those films are like the peaks. I refer to my sort of my life and in the volume as almost as a mountain climber. My peaks and Fantastic Four wasn't a peak in that sense, because it wasn't commercially, it isn't commercially recognizable, the story has a huge following. So it's sort of grown into a high point. But you know, one has to deal with this likelihood of disappointment from a very early age as an actor, and this was just sort of this colored in the whole circle. It was all disappointment there really wasn't much left. Except we became fodder for the business to be done. We were good enough that burnt Roger said, you know, I got Dr. ends we can release this movie. And so all Burt I can hear probably said that to somebody at Fox and they were afraid of losing Christopher Columbus that they coughed up with $2 million. Who knows Roger got his burnt got ours. And we got a credit and maybe some ComiCon appearances, which is probably what we would have got had the film come out anyway, because the special effects the whole genre wasn't ready yet. I mean, there was no such thing as Wesley Snipes, Black Panther, there was no such thing as James Cameron Spider Man. Yes, they were hoped for. But it was a long time until they came around. So you look at it that way. And we never would have had a chance to audition for these parts to make this film unless it had been a ruse. So I'm glad that other people bet on me. Roger Corman bet on me, bird Eichinger bet on me. And it was it was good enough for them to say, look, we can release this film and it'll be immediate. It'll be a disappointment. So what so I don't think it was that emotionally disappointing to any of us. Were quite close, Rebecca and Michael Bailey Smith and Joseph cope and I, I've done audiobooks, I produce audio books, and I ended up they gave me the rights the author of this book called forsaken, which is the deep dive into all of the it's the same story told 40 times about fantastic bore. And I had Rebecca, do her part, Joseph Koch came in and do his and Jay did a few parts. And you know, they're very together people, there are no scars. And there weren't in the beginning. It's it's really, it's funny, maybe it's like, I was talking at nauseam earlier about how seductive this business is and how corrupting it is. This is an example of how satisfying it was to be a part of this project.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:14

Sorry to interrupt, have to take a quick break. And we're back with Alex hideway. We're gonna dive into some of the guerilla marketing techniques they use for Roger Corman, it's fantastic for the other impression I got from it is when you guys learned that perhaps it wasn't going to get released or things were happening behind the scenes, the crew and all of you got together to really kind of make a push doing publicity for it. People came in David and Eric worse to do the music and paid for a lot of it themselves. And people would after hours steal a print and to finish it and post production as much as they could. And then putting together the ill fated Mall of America screening. It'll fade it meaning it didn't happen. That type of passion was just like that was that was amazing. That's why I was wondering, like, you know, did they then change the way you saw the industry after anything like that when you find out?

Alex Hyde-White 38:04

Well, no, you know, it was, you know, the worst brothers doing the, the the technical, creative aspects of it. I wasn't a part of because once I finished filming, I was done. But I did very early on, when we finish this film, I just knew I gotta get out on the road here. Because I think Roger had set up something. It was an LA con and it was great reception and we had a trailer shown. And so I said, Wait a minute, I'm an actor with a film and a story to tell. And I can go out on the road and tell them my my, my point of view Rebecca came and j with this one Michael Bailey Smith and I traveled to New York with the thing had with the stunt head of the thing, which I still have that optic nerve made John and ever late John village never Burrell who became famous special effects makeup people, Babylon five and whatnot. And I took the show on the road. And Roger inspired that kind of creativity. It was it was Roger has has a very unique place in film history, not as a user or an abuser, even although, you know, he's known for never losing money and you know, never really spending money. But the list of people have Roger, the list of Roger Corman alumni are some of the finest storytellers in the business. And it's because they were champions at a time in their life. And they were they were back they were satisfied. And once the conventional aspect of okay, here's a, here's a pretty cheap movie, and don't expect that it's going to be a hit because you were there for the 28 days and it should have been a 60 day shoot. I mean, come on. So there's a reality to that. I said, but that doesn't matter if there's an audience out there and I found very early on. Let's take this out. And again, this is what the old Actor Managers even before Oliviers day before my dad Since day, this was the version they created a show they take it out in the provinces and find an audience. And so I went to Bill Bromley was running Rogers company and I said, Hey, I've got some friends in New York and get me some press. I've been in touch with a comic book store they can host me and we don't have any I'm not asking you for money because they pay me an appearance via comic book stores which would cover my net 500 bucks 300 bucks and I do a couple of them. How about some pictures all we can give you pictures they give me 1000 prints to go on the road because it was marketing. Roger Corman still marketing Roger Corman and Fantastic Four was a great vehicle so I could mark it Alex I'd wait I could market read RICHARDS I could say what's gonna happen to the Hey, we got it. We even got so far and it was me and Jim board Jim I or Jim or the publisher again. It was him who came up with the Mall of America. Heck, we even had an invite to be in the Rose Parade that year because it was like Journey to the Moon or something. They all thought fantastic horrors is big thing. And you know what it kind of was because it was more than just the sum of its parts was like a saying it was a movie and easily forgettable film. You can see that now, when judged by the way that filmed entertainment is judged. But throw all of that out. This movie is like 100 year old turtle. Hey, look at that turtle and after 100 years, Damn, that's 100 year old turtle. He looks the same. But he's more important now. Because he because there's nothing else like him. There's a good one.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:22

That's funny. It's on YouTube. I think it has got a huge life on YouTube. What we talked about is if

Alex Hyde-White 41:27

there's if Disney wasn't so messed up, now that they own everything under God's green earth, they just put this out there putting out all sorts of crap. You know, put this on a B roll or something. And on the B side is something the original never before seen. Fantastic for the original what the negative was destroyed, but Well, no, we found one.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:46

Yeah, Disney Plus, they can't squeeze it in there. Right? Why not? Yeah, exactly. You deserve it. You deserve it. It's it's an enjoyable watch. And so and look for a million dollars. I mean, you couldn't even get John Krasinski to walk into the room for a million dollars these days. So I mean, it's like, it's amazing.

Alex Hyde-White 42:03

I guess he must not have liked the room once he walked in and he's done. I think they called me if the Hollywood Reporter called me in last May and said, Hey, what do you think about John Krasinski being Reed Richards and we ended up doing a whole big article in Hollywood Reporter And ended up being about me and my book, because the guy was terrific. It was good timing. And I you know, I just said, Hey, what am I gonna say? I mean, John Krasinski, he's a storyteller. He's a good filmmaker, to be great. You know, you need a storyteller to play Reed Richards. But the trouble with the Fantastic Four movies, the ones after ours, I mean, ours was, you know, almost like, meant to be bad and then ended up being not so bad for a million dollars. The other ones they had no real moral center, they had no real purpose. They ended up trying to be showpieces, my two cents it's a fantastic four just like the Beatles were for but you have to have a point of view you have to have a Lennon and McCartney to create something and and you can't minimize read. And I felt that yawn Griffith the wow factor that they didn't give him a chance to carry the film as a leading man, you know, you got to throw in a touch of of Captain Kirk imagine Star Trek is greatest Star Trek is and it can it succeeded in many different incarnations through the years good and bad. Who cares? But imagine the original Star Trek without Shatner as Kirk parody and all okay, in a way that's what I think that our fantastic poor has. It has this dysfunctional lead character just trying to be the nicest guy in the world and everyone else's color. Susan Gianni. And they played their part so beautifully. And I think the trouble with once the studio took over trying to make the fantastic for a commercial hit was that they sort of sacrificed charisma. They didn't have a leading role to carry the film. Film has to have a center.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:49

Yep, yeah. Well, there's always I'm gonna cross my fingers multiverse gonna bring you back. Right even if like Secret Wars. I maybe it'd be the best night get you like Nicolas Hammond like all the different characters from Marvel pass.

Alex Hyde-White 44:05

Nicholas Hammond. Yeah, he

Jeff Dwoskin 44:07

was what Spider Man Spider Man,

Alex Hyde-White 44:08

The Wall Street Journal. Funnily enough, the Wall Street Journal is doing a they have a podcast that they contacted me and and did a pre interview. They're doing a four part series, I think on Marvel before it became Marvel. And its focuses on that period you talked about in the sort of late 80s to the early 90s. And they're interviewing me Nick Hammond. And one other fella The Punisher, I think, or something I can't remember. But that's interesting, you know, because that's business. That's Marvel. And part of my promotional tour for Fantastic Four. I was lucky I was in New York at a fighter something Madison Square Garden with a friend of mine or journalist who wrote for the post and two seats from me was a lady named Heidi, who worked at Marvel and just coincidental and so, you know, by the end of the third round, or whatever, she says, you know, why don't you come over, and I ended up going to the bullpen and meeting, the President of Marvel a fella named Terry Stewart. And I'm on the phone with the Wall Street Journal people and my son who's pretty good researcher. He was on the phone as well. He looked it up. And sure enough, Avi Arad took over Marvel films in the summer of 93, or in September of 93. And I go, Well, no, this was like March or April of 93. And it was a guy named Terry go, Oh, yeah. So Marvel was a small company on the verge of bankruptcy. And the current president was, you know, he wasn't gonna be there much longer. Not that any of them said that it didn't matter. It was I was there in the big one room or big floor of an office building. There was Marvel, they were making the comics, and they were doing the thing that was Marvel, you know, what a story that I look forward to how they do that, because from that germ of Oh, and then Ron Perelman and New York investor ended up buying it now. They're looking at him now. I mean, you know, they are so successful that people don't even have to see their movies anymore.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:58

I think they got too successful. It's, it's become like Hallmark to try and keep up with everything.

Alex Hyde-White 46:05

The first Robert Downey film as Iron Man, I thought was really good. Great. And then I started I mean, I think Wonder Woman was good. I haven't, you know, I'm not in touch with him. I see bits and pieces on anything. Hey, that for a movie that I don't know if that's DC or Marvel, but they look entertaining, but a lot of those movies, they just were so used to it. Now. They just look fake.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:26

Yeah, there's, there was there was definitely more heart in the earlier ones.

Alex Hyde-White 46:31

There's fantastical plots. Yeah. So our little dysfunctional amoeba of a film that still in its petri dish locked away somewhere. It's a nice story.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:41

It's a wonderful story. And I'm glad that it exists. And I'm glad it's something that kind of keeps Yeah, it's a great topic of conversation. It's a fascinating

Alex Hyde-White 46:51

it is to those who are interested in it. And you know, the entertainment business is about satisfying your audiences like it used to be 100 years ago, you know, it doesn't matter if something is a global hit or universally praised. In fact, you could go to you there's a school of thought that says, you know, if everybody likes it, you know, you didn't do good enough. You know, look at Jordan. Peele is such an exception now, because, you know, he is actually he writes complicated stories, and he's a nicest guy in the world. The layers of his storytelling are very impressive, like Spielberg in a way and you know, I was witnessed firsthand for a few days, the summer before last that universal is treating him they're giving him the all the backing that they gave young Spielberg 1941 times and close encounters times and to nurture him. And I think Jordan is a wonderful filmmaker, wonderful storyteller, great writer. He's amazing. He's an exception. There are not many like him right now. Taylor shared in a bit on television, I suppose. But Jordan is an actor, you know, he's not a control free. My little part was on paper. It was one thing and been around for a couple of days. By the time I got to do my scene with Daniel, I kind of asked Jordan, can you just let me do one? And he just looked at me and he said, wow, okay, let's do it that way. And it was a great example of collaboration. And the DP, those white Vaughn white timer is his name. He's only Christopher Nolan's DP, for God's sake. Like I said, they shot in 65 mil, which the film cans are huge, and they run quick. So there's a lot of time they were putting on new film cans. And they went up to height to like, at the end of day one, it says, You shot Tennant, right? It goes, Yeah, I go. Because why? They tell me that people say that that movie sort of plays the same way back to front as it was. He goes, Yeah, I could see that. And then, okay, Alex action, and there's weight and his dolly shot and I'm, I'm a part of his shot. And, ah, that's joyous. That's my life, and film and TV. And, you know, fortunately, it made it into the book because it took me a couple years to write the book, you know, I'm still going. And it is moments like that, when I can work with people who are so good that they don't have to tell you how good they are. They'll let you help make them good in that moment. And that is rare. That is rare, rare. That's the peak. That's my que tu or Kilimanjaro. I just you know, I'm thankful that I have my health. And now that I'm out of Hollywood, I think I have a well, I got a nice Atlanta agent that are terrific that I didn't have before. I'm up for lots of stuff. I got two movies coming out small films, little accidental films. You know, I still I feel that I'm in the volume still.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:32

You're in the volume, you're gonna stay in the volume. And thanks for spending some of that volume with me. I appreciate you hanging out with me.

Alex Hyde-White 49:39

Hey, you guys. You do this man. You're the you're the town criers. It's a lot of work. I appreciate it. You know, you give guys like us mouthpieces, and I appreciate it. I saw your list of people, some very lovely names. I know a few of them and happy to be a part of it.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:54

I'm very happy to have you a part of it. Thank you so much. It was awesome.

Alex Hyde-White 49:58

God bless you. Thank you very much. To indeed enjoy Detroit such a thing as possible.

Jeff Dwoskin 50:02

It is very possible to enjoy Detroit everyone. How amazing was Alex hideway? Oh my gosh, definitely check out his book. It's awesome in the volume is a link in my show notes. You can check that out. If you haven't seen Roger Corman's Fantastic Four, I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well as on YouTube. You can check it out there so many great stories that was a lot of fun. Can't believe the interviews over that means the episodes over these go by so quick. So Alex was the original Reed Richards, John was the ship was here the flash, Nicholas Heyman Spider Man, Eric Allen Kramer, or from the Incredible Hulk movie, or award. Robin, I hope I'm not missing any. This is a place where all the superheroes come to hang out. Huge. Thanks, Alex Hyde white, and of course, a huge thanks to all of you for coming back week after week. I appreciate ya. And we'll see you next time.

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