#258 The Hilarious World of Jann Karam

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Marina, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 258 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be a classic conversation for the record books. My guest today is none other than comedian, actor, writer artist. Jann Karam is here. That's right. You loved her and Curb Your Enthusiasm Seinfeld, her standout performance and HBOs 13th annual young comedian special. This conversation is the best you're gonna love it. It's coming up in just a second. And in these few seconds, I want to take a moment. Lee Purcell joined us last week we talked about the Hollywood radio players amazing conversation. Also Vernon Reid from Living Color joined us. We talked about a lot of stuff. You got to dive into those conversations, but not before you dive into my conversation with Jann, you're gonna love it. Enjoy. All right, everyone. I'm excited to introduce you to my next guest stand up comedian, writer, actor, producer, painter, self examiner loved her on Seinfeld. You've seen her on the Late Show with David Letterman. HBO is comedians Paschal mad about you a million things, million things. Welcome to the show. Jann Karam, what's up?

Jann Karam 1:59

Yay, you got it. Right. You said it right. And Curb Your Enthusiasm most recently season 12 I was on 11. And then 12. That'd be on 12. I play a noise.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:10

I nurse. Ah, sorry. So I can't say this is Larry David would say Oh, tell me about your experience on Curb Your Enthusiasm. We could start there.

Jann Karam 2:22

Oh, well. It was really fun. nerve wracking. It's noise racking. Because, you know, you're supposed to improvise. But then you're not sure what, which way to go. And they just kind of maybe keep some stuff in them. They'll say the first time we did it was season 11. Right. And then I would though, like a waiter ended up cutting the theme. But I'm in it for a little bit because it didn't really fit. Yes, it was too long. And they had to cut something. And Larry called me up and he said we had to cut. It was too long. We had to cut the scene. I know we'll cut someone else's any laugh, but he did call me. He said I saw that it was him because they have him in my phone. Right? And I answered I said, I said hello. He says, I go. No, he says yeah, I said what? He goes I know. I said no. He said well, and I go what? as well. I go it was a terrible. He says no, no, you were great. You're fantastic. I said, Oh, well what happened? He said we had to cut cut you're seeing Oh, and then they said he's like No, you were great. I would absolutely have you back. You were fantastic. Okay, well, that's good. Why did you cut the scene? While it was too long. It didn't really fit in. And he said he'd had me back. And then they did. So I went back on season 12 And I had two scenes one with him and one with Vince Vaughn.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:41

I'm behind him. My curve is season 12 out are you filmed it in? That's no season.

Jann Karam 3:45

12. So season 11 was last season. And I think they just wrapped season 12 gives us march 28 or something like that, or Yeah, the day that I get to do Jeff's podcast. I was so looking forward to it. 2023 Ladies and gentlemen, remember the date? Yeah. So they just wrapped I think all the shooting, and then I guess they'll do the editing. So who knows when it'll be out. But I'll let you know.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:11

I look forward to that. So to seen so less likely to get caught, which is great. They tell you just a little bit and then you just kind of go for Yeah, just

Jann Karam 4:18

just my seen kind of basically. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not supposed to say anything. And it's like, Wait, can I say I was I did it? Yeah, but I don't think you're supposed to say you know, obviously if I'm a nurse took place in a hospital. But how many? All of the episodes seem to take? I mean, all of the seasons. There's a hospital scene, it seems.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:38

Well I look forward to that. You have a big character role in Seinfeld who will work up to that will work out to that. Okay, yeah. How did you get into comedy? Like you're funny? Yeah, it was

Jann Karam 4:49

always funny. We always watch comedy shows growing up and my I think my parents are funny. My sister says I don't think they are my dad's kind of snarky. Sorry. tastic and he's like the worst heckler that I've had had to encounter because he says some zingers. Uh, you know, you go, Can I get a bouncer to get this guy out or security? I mean, like below the belt stuff that nobody else would say, wow, it just stuns me. It's so shocking. Sometimes the things that he'll say that are so cutting or like, wow, that I'm speechless. So I guess I could handle hecklers. Because again, it was good spring training. And then my mom's role funny. She's funnier as she's older. He's more like loose. She says funny, witty, observational things and tell stories kind of way that I think I was sort of primed for it. And my dad was a politician. And he was a community leader. And he was out there, you know, making sure other people's kids were having fun. There was never home, but he was making sure other people's kids were doing something like that. Where's our dad? Oh, he's volunteering again. But yeah, so I think that how and then I went to college, and I couldn't get in plays. And I went to like a crummy high school there was in a theater department. And then I couldn't get in place. So I just said, Well, I'm not going to I like 19. And I, I went to ASU, Arizona State University. And then I'd gone to back east and I saw some comedians lived and I was like, Oh, I'm not going to sit around and wait for somebody to tell me like, give me my destiny, or decide it. And then I just said, I'm going to do stand up, because that way, I'm autonomous. And I can do perform. It's just a matter of me showing up nobody letting you down or waiting for a part that you don't even really want to do. And I want as a long answer, but and I also wanted to have a voice to be able to articulate which I haven't gotten there yet, but it's like a three minute answer working on it.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:43

What overlooked plays, was there just other people that were getting all the parts and

Jann Karam 6:48

yeah, yeah, their PSA Gray. I even audition now all the time. And I'm like, I go to $100 for the self hate, you know, because it was doing it at home during COVID. Where, you know, it turned into where you have to take the audition at home. Do you do those?

Jeff Dwoskin 7:03

I don't, I'm a stand up comic. But I I know I cast Yeah. And but no, I have I had good. I auditioned once for a movie that was local. As in Michigan, we had the the incentives for like, half a minute. So I went once. It was horrible. I was horrible.

Jann Karam 7:21

Well, it takes some doing that's for sure.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:25

It was so bad. Jann I Well, first of all, I was sitting there forever. And, and I'm like, I had to go I had to go. And I was worried. I didn't want to leave because I thought that was rude. Yeah, believe it or you had to go the bathroom. No, I had to leave like I had to be somewhere. I'd been there for hours.

Jann Karam 7:41

Okay, you got like a kid when they go, I gotta go. I gotta make

Jeff Dwoskin 7:44

Well, let's say they were supposed to see us at one and I had to get back to work. And it's like, all of a sudden, three, right? Oh my god. So I knew it was gonna happen. I didn't want to be rude. So I'm like, Yeah, I'm like, Hi, I just want to let you know, I gotta go. You can just take my name off. Oh, we'll see you right now. I'm like, no, no, that's that. That is not what I'm saying. Oh, wow. So I go in. It was so bad. Jann, it was so bad. And it was so bad. That when I left I realized I hadn't signed the waiver. And I didn't sign it. And so I just walked out the door. So there was no way they would ever be able to use that footage. It was really good. Jason use film or something. All right. So you you're like, I'm going to be a comedian. So you're at ASU, you're doing comedy? What's it what's the comedy scene around Arizona State University.

Jann Karam 8:33

What was kind of small it was Makarios Mexican food restaurant, and then a playboy plot the Playboy Club and that actual stage in the show room. It was really nice. They had it there on Mondays. And then kaios was on a Tuesday. And we had an improv group that was just, you know, kind of not that organized. And then there were little rooms here and there that would pop up like usual, you know, where I started a room and for six months, things like that, you know, and then I did and then I moved to Chicago after two years when I had an app. And then I studied at Second City and I did comedy in Chicago, and the outskirts. And then I moved to New York, I stayed there for about eight months. That was my plan. I had a plan now i These days I don't have a you know, I don't have a plan. I just like what happened to the original plan. How do I you know, you take those steps and then they work out and then you get to a wall and you're like, Okay, now what? How do I make that kind of plan where you can make those kinds of strides. The strides are less, not as stressful. Do you like that though? Didn't you like that non-strike? Oh, okay. Yeah, it

Jeff Dwoskin 9:40

was good. All right. So second, so you're studying improv? Yeah. Any other any folks have note that we would know they were around in the second city? No, not

Jann Karam 9:50

no, no. Nobody, like Oh, then you know, that was a problem. I didn't meet anybody that can help me or like, Oh, they got me on Saturday Night Live. Because I met such insight like, I wish I would have known maybe to take more classes or get into the meat of the group, you know, but you know, get into like the, what you call the main show or the main room or the main stage. But no, I kind of didn't have as much interest in that as I did doing stand up. I just stick to my guns

Jeff Dwoskin 10:19

as well. You should have. Alright, so now you're in New York. Yeah. Catch your rising stars.

Jann Karam 10:24

Yeah. Where do you like to hear this story? Richard Belzer recently passed away. God rest his soul. When I was working in Phoenix, there was a comedy club called chuckles that opened up and it was used to be a dance club. And it was it was like, upstairs downstairs in the you could walk around kind of I don't know, if you've been to the Laugh Factory in Hollywood. It was like a the shape of a football field, you know, but not as large. But you could walk around and be upstairs and look down at the comedians. And you could be floor level brought everybody in from LA and New York. And apparently people weren't getting paid. They were it was like heavy drug users, the owners and all are they were paying and cocaine and stuff like that. But Richard Belzer was there and I was hosting. So I had the opportunity. I met a lot of comedians at that time. Like, I think I saw a lane boozer there, which really was inspiring, and Paul Provenza. That's where I met him. And then Richard Belzer. And Richard said, I told him, I was moving to New York, and he said, When you get to New York, tell me and I'll get you in and catch a rising star. So I went to catch and I guess he said it up. I didn't have to wait in line or taking number whatever I showcase in front of the three people that were comedians and in charge, Adrian Tolson, Larry Ambrose, and JJ wall at the time, and I passed and I became a regular. So that was really key. Because if it weren't for him, you know, in that connection, I maybe I would have passed, but it was I was kind of ushered in, which helps. That's for sure.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:52

That's cool that he did that for I know, I feel really lucky in those ways I loved about him. He was great. He was so funny.

Jann Karam 11:59

I know. Thank you, Richard Belzer, you know, and I think I told him before, how you how, you know, anybody would kind of go Yeah, yeah, you know, you help me if it weren't for you, I wouldn't have gotten in the catch was different when you're treated that way. And you're not just some schmuck outside taking in number, you know, and just like me, I'm from Arizona. You just have that kind of confidence.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:20

Yeah. You had Bowser, swagger bind? Yeah. So nothing wrong with exactly I had the beltway. So how long were you doing comedy in New York before you headed over to LA.

Jann Karam 12:30

Then when I was at catch, that's where I met Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld, and Bill Maher. So they were all like really hot then and coming back and forth. La New York. And so I was friends with Jerry hung out with him for a lot. Also, Larry. And I think I was there for about almost four years. And then my rent, like I had to move out of my apartment because the girl got a route, got a boyfriend, a roommate, and then they and I kind of didn't have any place to go. And then I was in really getting spots anywhere. It became to me in my opinion, in the late in the 80s. It became very male. It was more so than ever, that the women weren't getting spots. In my experience. You know, I couldn't get on to the comedy cellar. So then I was with Jerry Seinfeld data at this restaurant called Columbus, where a lot of people hung out. And then Budd Friedman was there with Alec. And then Jerry said to jet to bud, this is Jann Karam, he's moving out to LA, she would be great in your club. So that was another like ushering in. And then I became a regular and then I moved, you know, kind of the stars were lining up by wishing away sometimes they that I should have stayed in New York, and I could have maybe had different opportunities. But then I had good opportunity when I moved to LA. And so then I became a regular at the Improv in Hollywood,

Jeff Dwoskin 13:50

when other referrals. Bring I

Jann Karam 13:53

know, well, it's like that's the only way and then because of that I was on Seinfeld and I was in one of Jerry's early specials called Stand Up confidential, which is on HBO. And anyway, and then I got I got on Seinfeld, because I knew Larry and Jerry, and they had me audition. And then I got Curb Your Enthusiasm because of that relationship. What else? That's about it. Then the rest. Everything dried up.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:18

You met a lot of the right people.

Jann Karam 14:21

Oh, and I got on politically incorrect on bill with Bill Maher because they met him too.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:27

Sorry to interrupt, had to take a quick break. I want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my conversation with Jan Karam. Are you still in Thai? No. Larry, obviously you're in touch with because you just told us that story. But have you Yeah, do stay connected with Jerry and or Bill Maher. If you've been on his new show. I haven't been

Jann Karam 14:53

on the latest. We know that you stopped using comedians and but no, I don't see him and Jerry I run it, you know, I saw him at George Shapiro's his managers sell celebration because he was also my manager, but not as extensively as Jerry's. He wasn't as invested. But but so I was there. And then I always he was I, Jerry was Ajahn. How are you doing? And then I said something about the conversation that was taking place. And then I forgot to say, Jerry, I'm so sorry. And I'm just like, kick myself. But then I didn't know if I say hey, Jerry, I'm so sorry. You guys, would you sorry about you didn't kill them or something? I will, you know, you never know what that guy like, what kind of a like a normal person you would say I'm so sorry for your loss. And they'd say thank you. But Jerry, you don't always like wide. It's not my loss. It says it's not a loss. It's a you know, so I kind of just, and then afterwards, I was kicking myself for not saying that to him, like proper etiquette or whatever, you know,

Jeff Dwoskin 15:49

I think there's no real proper etiquette to Shiva or anything like that. It's I mean, like, everyone says the wrong thing, because it's like, even just going up to someone and going, Oh, my God, it's so great to see you. And you go oh, I mean, not Under this circumstance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so.

Jann Karam 16:06

Yeah. To have like a real human interaction not

Jeff Dwoskin 16:09

Yeah. So it's, it's hard when that I think the fact that you were there pushed along that sentiment, because you wouldn't have been there if you weren't sorry. Or morning alongside Yeah, um, and stuff like that. So you know, things don't need to be Yeah. Always said, you know, there's some things implied in certain situations, and I think that's one of them. But yeah, I just had to it's the same day everyone you say that a normal thing. And you realize, oh, I shouldn't have said that. Because we're here. You know, I mean,

Jann Karam 16:34

yeah, yeah, exactly. And the thing is, is he said something and then I said oh, he said something about George or something maybe and then I kind of really went in like to start to hug but it was like is this was when was this was it October and went in to kind of hug and he backed up and I was like, whoa, okay, I read that signal wrong. I thought he I thought it was us maybe even like a like a pat hug where you extend your arms, but you just your fingers on the shoulders, but I just got Nope. I started to lean in and I got like, Nope, he kind of so

Jeff Dwoskin 17:08

well. Jerry's known for not hugging. There wasn't there a whole I know, I know if Keisha

Jann Karam 17:13

doesn't say no, yeah, but that's it. But I thought well, since I've known him so long, and I have hugged him in the past, you know, like, it would be okay. I kind of had a pass.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:23

If I hug you, it opens the door to everyone. Yeah.

Jann Karam 17:29

If I argue I'm gonna hug everyone. We are doing bad Jerry and I never do come to this, Jeff.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:37

I think you're doing bad Geryon versions. Anytime I talk to someone who's worked with Rodney Dangerfield. There's certain people I think when when they talk about them, they always do the voice like anytime I'm talking to someone who'd known Rodney was telling her and he's like, oh, yeah, they always jumps in. Oh, yeah. Always. Yeah,

Jann Karam 17:54

yeah. Well, you must have fun doing this podcast. It must be fun. Oh, yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:58

It's tons of fun. Tons of fun. As I'm having fun right now with you.

Jann Karam 18:02

I know. And guess what do bill burr respond to call pockets because as recently in touch with him, so do you want to hear a bill burr story?

Jeff Dwoskin 18:09

I love a bill burr story. He's hilarious.

Jann Karam 18:11

Okay, I know. So I did. Because time just flies. I can't even believe that you go 20 years ago, but I did Letterman. And apparently, when I did the young comedian special there was a group of a crop of people starting out or not quite starting out that then started doing comedy. It was 90. So so there was a group of comedians that started around that time. And so a lot of them later said they see me like, like, Well, Bill Burr was one of them. And he recently said my name on Dana Carvey, who, by the way, sometimes I opened for Dana Carvey,

Jeff Dwoskin 18:45

I know, I know I want to talk about that too. Go ahead. Okay. Okay.

Jann Karam 18:49

I love you can hug Dana too. He was Bill Burr was on recently with fly on the wall on David Spade and Dana Carvey fly on the wall. Right. They have people that have been on an SNL. It's a brilliant, brilliant idea, right? And it's endless because all those years of doing Saturday Night Live. So then my friend Rob Shaffer said, Hey, Bill mentioned you he's a comedian, too. And he said, Bill mentioned you on Dana's and David's podcast. He said that, yeah, that he'd watched the young comedian special, and it was like the best special and he said Dennis Miller, Jann Karam. And then he mentioned like, of the two of all the names he and so I was like, Wow, that's pretty cool. So I said, Hey, I heard you mentioned my name. And he goes, Oh, yeah, that's what got me started doing comedy. And I was like, and then a star was born. And so he owes me his career. But anyway, so I'll be doing his podcast, but there's more to the story. Should I tell looters? No, please. So then I know I'm like, like, I'm gonna hold back anyway. Well, when I did Letterman, you know, I was going back and forth to New York, right from Los Angeles. And then I ran into him or met him or whatever. And so We had a one bedroom apartment. It wasn't really a one bedroom. It was like a call. It was a closet with a door. Sleep in the closet. No, it was it was pretty decent. It was Midtown. And I don't know how we went. He said, Hey, you can stay at my place a couple times. I stayed at his place, which saved me because I was doing Letterman and they only give you a hotel for one night, but you want to run around the city and do sets and stuff. And I couldn't afford, you know, I didn't have a place to stay. So he said I could stay and he was like, you know, like a really perfect gentleman really respectful. I stayed in the room. He stayed outside, because I did Letterman and I guess for him that was kind of a big deal. Because I mean, I didn't know at the time that he'd seen me on the young comedians special right until now, years later. Then he ended up coming out to LA and stayed in my apartment, which was now my ex boyfriend living there. Oh, wait, hold on. Hey, Andrew. I'm doing a podcast right now. I was just talking about doing the podcast was on the podcasts. Maybe we'll chat tomorrow. Are you available in a little bit? I'll call you when I'm done with the podcast. Okay, I'll hear you tomorrow. Thanks, Andrew. Okay, bye. So that was Bill's person to book. Isn't that cool? That is double pot cap? Or like, No, you can't say gang bang podcast. Okay, the double bond. So then Bill came out during pilot season, this is before and he needed a place to stay. So he stayed at what was my apartment, but I moved out and the boyfriend stayed, but he was on the road, because he's a piano player. And then Bill stayed there for like, several months, like a couple of times, too. So that worked out really well. So we're kind of bonded in that way. You know, now so bigger than ever rising star and then I see him once in a while but but then I just heard my name and then reached out to him.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:50

Isn't it surreal though that like, I mean, it's cool, right? I mean, just randomly Bill Barr. He could say he could have said anything. David Spade, Fred Stoller. They were on that special also. Yeah, so cool to me. Like, I'm just putting myself say, Oh, here's one of those. Yeah, top comedians right now, and he's named dropping me and I inspired him. That's gonna make you feel great.

Jann Karam 22:09

Yeah, yeah, no, I really. That's why he I mean, because I'm like, because normally people will say a guy usually like they won't really cite a female comedian. Normally, you know, that inspired them or, you know, but yeah, he said, mine, like, You're right out of like Warren, Thomas or Drake say there. And then of course, David and Dana will went on to name what they eat and say to him. That's right. He was on David show. But I'm sure he said, David, you are on it.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:39

Yeah, that's probably one of the reasons why I probably came up. Do you have any specific memories from the 13th? HBOs 13th. young comedian special is what we're talking.

Jann Karam 22:48

Yeah. But there's one more thing about that recently. Not even recently, maybe it was pre COVID that come up. Kamau Bell. You know him, right. W come out, come out. He was on the Smartlist podcast. You know that. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:03

Jason Bateman so that he said,

Jann Karam 23:04

somebody sent me a clip. And he said, all my friends were watching or listening to not quest for love. But what was it called? Tribal? I can't remember. They're saying, Hey, did you hear the news such and such album? And he'd say no. Did you see Dennis Miller and Jann Karam on the young comedian special. And I was like he said my day. What? Yeah, so that was like, out of all the people he mentioned. You know, I didn't even know this was going on. Well, I

Jeff Dwoskin 23:33

know for me moving forward. I'll be like, oh, yeah, I was talking to Jann Karam. name dropping you all the time moving forward. Oh, yeah.

Jann Karam 23:40

Right. You're the best podcast. Yeah, that was pretty. Like I guess it was like considered. Judd Apatow said it was the best special of the young comedian special was a 13. DANIEL Yeah. And Brillstein gray produced it. That was their first year and I thought they did a really great like classy job of producing it. That looked great. It was at the Mayfair Theatre on Santa Monica. And it was right across from the improv, which both places are no longer there.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:09

So I read for that special that Dennis Miller insisted David Spade be a part of it. Everyone's time had to be cut to make room for David. Oh, wow. You see, because spade had tried to get on for other times. But him and Dennis were friends. So

Jann Karam 24:27

yeah, because they that's how I got the showcase is because of Dennis Miller. I worked with him in San Francisco. And then he recommended me to real estate and gray. I went up at the Improv in Santa Monica and then I got booked. So that's because of Danis See, like a you were the women who helped me Elaine Boozer, but I worked for her before,

Jeff Dwoskin 24:50

who were the other women have notes that were like you have other women comedians around at the time, besides Elaine boozer that the women role models where you're like I don't know, you know, like, just inundated with everyone was just a guy comedian.

Jann Karam 25:03

Well, no. Well, I mean, kind of the women, it seems like take their own path because it's sort of I don't want to say it's fight or flight, but it's not as they don't have as many opportunities. So it's like a single singular opportunity versus, you know, a gaggle of guys in the room at the cot in the In the Green Room at the comedy and magic club. It's like, oh, can I come in? Can I squeeze in here, although catch a rising star was pretty well balanced in terms of Adrian toll. She was one of the Booker's, and she was very female friendly. Like she could have said, No, you don't pass if she didn't want me in, right. And there was two other guys in it. And they had, well, Rita Rudner, and I think Cara Lee had already gone to LA. And there were a lot of female comedians there. Susie Essman, I don't want to name names, because then I'm gonna, but everybody was kind of doing their own thing. We're all working together. But everyone's taken their own path. But it's like when these certain people get a show, like Bill Maher or Seinfeld or Larry David, you know, then they can bring you in. Everyone's trying to do their own project or stand up. It's a group but it's your singular, right? I don't know. Nevermind, forget it. Can we start over?

Jeff Dwoskin 26:21

All right, ladies, gentlemen, my guest today is Jann Karam. Arab Karam. Isn't

Jann Karam 26:27

it odd on Koran, I just carry them carry them. Well, you could say ROM. Well, you're from Michigan. Are there Middle Eastern people in there where you're from? Yes. Dearborn. Dearborn. Yeah, my mom's from Detroit. But she moved there. And that's where she met my dad. And then she always says, I wish we never left. I never left Michigan because I missed out on so many of my cousins and family. But my dad wanted to move and I was 16. And I didn't have a say. I said, Yeah, but Mom, if you move to whatever my dad, she's, I know. I know. I said, but we wouldn't have been born it would be a totally different life. She goes maybe for I don't know how she thinks we would have been born if she didn't ever move.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:09

Who do I be talking to right now? This is so this is getting to Trevi. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah. All right. So all right. So before though, the 13th annual for the 13th. young comedian special was your Big Shot already. You were on The Tonight Show?

Jann Karam 27:25

Well, one tonight show but you know, and then it'd been via I mean, things were starting to kind of move up. And I had a bunch of people that wanted to manage me and agencies. And I just feel like I just made the wrong choices all all the way because I ended up going with William Morris. And I got, you know, like, Yeah, I'll take Jann, and then you're only young there for about, you know, six months. And then it's like, oh, that's when they were taking in a lot of comedians, right. And I felt like I got passed around from one agent to the next. And maybe that agent would now get too busy. So and then they didn't really get me auditions. Or if they did, and I didn't know what I was really doing. And I studied acting. I don't know, I just sort of regret and have pain about that part. Because you again, you know, relying on other people, when look, all the things that happened were because of my own relationships and not because of well, achievement, right? But also because of the relationships I made. You turn it over to somebody now you're helpless again, you're waiting to get cast in something that you didn't really want or not prepared. I'm not prepared, but it's just too much of a crapshoot.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:34

So no one it William Morris just owned you. There was just no goals. Did you feel like they were just dropping you? Here's Mad About You. Here's, you know, norm. Well, I

Jann Karam 28:44

got mad about you. Because I knew Larry Charles because of he offered me that and it was just a tiny Yeah, because anything else anything else. I was like a donut shop girl, but he offered that to me that was uh, you know, I didn't even audition. But ya know, I felt like at William Morris, it's so big. And you know, they want to just like make, they're gonna go with a sure bet, right? And they think oh, she's a sure bet. But if it doesn't happen right away, then the next agent will go we'll all take her and then they pass me down the line of like car salesmen, which is sounds rude, but all the hours and times getting dressed up going there to try to talk to Hey, hi. In the meetings at all, and then I had like about maybe 10 managers, I had made a tape everyone not everyone wants to manage me. But there was a list of people that wanted to manage me and I picked this woman but all she cared about was my lipstick and cheese did these jeans make me look too fat? And it was at a time when I feel like I could have gotten some things but that she wasn't I made that you need a female they were saying you need a female Manager, which could be true, but not that particular female manager. And then she went on to be with a big management company that still exists that has a lot of comedians, and she has an actor who has a long running series. And she just kind of let it go. And never I mean, I kind of regret that. That was that one moment where I could have maybe I could have been somebody

Jeff Dwoskin 30:15

could have been a contender. Yeah, it's not. It's

Jann Karam 30:17

just, it was just more like, Hey, don't now just take my life and all this work and just kind of like, ask me about your genes say, I do I do. I got a hang up. Where's my therapist?

Jeff Dwoskin 30:30

We're in the timeline.

Jann Karam 30:31

I'm smiling. I'm smiling. You guys.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:35

Like what at this point? Have you done or not done? I did that sound negative? The whole management thing? No, it sounded raw and real.

Jann Karam 30:43

Well, I had just done a pilot with no Carter and the guy from NBC said, Warren Littlefield, he said, this woman is gold, golden or gold, whatever. And I had done the young comedian special, and I had done tonight shows. And I was like, bumbling, you know? So it's like, don't you take that and kind of make a bigger deal or try to make a deal or get me a series deal? Because that's when people were doing holding deals and all that kind of stuff. So but No, there wasn't, it didn't seem like much action was being taken or coordinated. And that's what's really frustrating because it's like, if you don't, I got to do this myself, which I think a lot of artists or performers or you know, feel like you're doing your own podcast, you're not going to wait for somebody to

Jeff Dwoskin 31:27

exactly this frustration is kind of at a time where you've been on The Tonight Show you've were on one of the funniest and most successful HBO comedian specials. You've probably done an evening at the Improv at this point.

Jann Karam 31:39

No, I think the evening at the Improv was Was there anything more than the nine? I'm not sure?

Jeff Dwoskin 31:44

Maybe? Maybe? Maybe? Yeah, well, yeah. Okay.

Jann Karam 31:47

It was comic strip live EV at the Improv VH one stand up spotlight. I was on all I was like, on all those shows. You know, I did like a Dick Clark live.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:56

I know. I watched that. I didn't know Jack Clark had a show.

Jann Karam 31:59

Well, you know, it was during a writer's strike. They did that because you know, they made of like a variety show or something like that. Because you didn't need writers. Yeah. So you just had me stand up like, oh, but I'm a writer. I wrote my own material, but that doesn't count. Okay.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:15

I did want to point out that you weren't just on the mat about you. That was an important episode. That was the one where they found out they were having a baby. Oh, okay. All right. All right. So I'm sorry. So it was there ever a time then. After this? Either pre or post Seinfeld, which we'll get to? And you were happy, I guess. Yeah. But in terms of like, work. Yeah. I mean, or just, was there a time where anything just started to click or threat or like, where are they? You could get that momentum back? Because it's a night show back then. Right? Yeah. That was like a golden ticket. You were on a twice?

Jann Karam 32:50

Yeah, I know. And I got like, okay, and a week from Johnny and Jim McCauley, who was the booker at the time, who was also now no longer with us? Who was a he was the one that put me on the show. And despite his reputation, there were no, there wasn't any crossing of the line or anything. He was respectful to me. And not there were no sexual exchanges, because that's kind of like what his reputation was, I guess. But that doesn't mean it's true, right? True. He said that when they he Johnny asked you to come over. It's because they have to feel 30 seconds or a minute or something. So if I would, and I keep like, oh, man, if I only would have cut out a little bit or didn't go as long, then maybe I would have been able to sit down which was like a big thing. Like if you if Johnny calls you over? Yeah, that would have been maybe a deal changer too. Even though I got the okay and a wink. And you could hear him laugh and all that there wasn't any time. That's what Macaulay said. I don't know.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:52

Was it easy to get booked on The Tonight Show? I feel like when I talked to think reader Oh, and Wendy Liebman. They both I think they both struggle to get on there.

Jann Karam 34:01

Yeah, did Wendy do it with Johnny or? I couldn't get on with J while I didn't really try.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:06

I think Wendy did it at the very end of Johnny's. Okay. J didn't want anyone. I think it was NAFTA. It was on with Johnny so from what I heard also,

Jann Karam 34:17

Oh, right. Yeah. And he didn't have his friends on either. And George Miller who said You know, you don't have all your, your your friends on and he like really laid into him. And then George and then he called up George Whoa, what do you mean? No, I do I will, because he just George Miller was the kind of person that would just tell you how it was and he was really pissed that Lando didn't have people on you know, his phrase friends you know from the Comedy Store and stuff

Jeff Dwoskin 34:44

right because you're used to and it seems that a lot of people do like Larry David and all them it's with Kirby's had everyone on that he's ever known. You give back when you make it you give back and

Jann Karam 34:55

are you trying to put your friends in, you know, which is what Seinfeld and Larry did on site. Seinfeld they the writers were their friends you know, you got to be funny and they're not just gonna give it but you know I had to audition three times for Seinfeld and then I said if I don't get it this time it's too humiliating in front of Larry and Jerry as I'm walking in that room and then I then I got that last one that will teach me to say never

Jeff Dwoskin 35:21

Sorry to interrupt have to take a quick break. And we're back and Jan's gonna tell us why you never give up. It's a big one though.

Jann Karam 35:29

Yeah, what was voted number one girlfriend episode.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:32

Yes they approx is very important scientific ranking of Jerry's girlfriends on Seinfeld puts you at number one. That's

Jann Karam 35:43

Wow. That was the switch episode.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:46

That was right. The switch? Yes. No, that was the non Laffer. Yes.

Jann Karam 35:51

It didn't laugh.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:52

He kept saying very funny. That's pretty funny. Yeah. That's funny.

Jann Karam 35:56

That nice. That's funny. That's funny. Yeah. And they said that they had other people audition for it, but only a comedian knew how to say that line. Right. Wow. Okay. Right. Because I guess I'm saying that right. You know, because you know, comedians really go. That's funny. Right? Go? Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:13

Because we laugh inside. Yeah. Well, I

Jann Karam 36:17

intellectually you it's funny, right.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:19

Because comedians, I think appreciate the different level whether they've laughed or not. And so yeah, that was funny. Yeah. Yeah,

Jann Karam 36:27

yeah. Yeah, yeah, right. Right. Right. It's I think that was the difference in Yeah, the read of the line.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:33

I rewatched the episode. One of notes that's the episode where we learned Kramer's name is Cosmo as well so that was Yeah, but his whole thing with you and your roommate in the show was too funny. Which leads me to I know you're number one in the approx article but then I found another article Yeah. By cracked Oh, which is ranked all of them. All the girlfriends dumped by Jerry. But it was based on a pettiness ranking. Jerry's pettiness. Oh, Oh, how funny. They're you ranked number 24. Right in the middle, right in the middle. So but that's good, though. Yeah. With the approx one. It's it's important to point out that you beat out Teri Hatcher. Oh, my God. She was number two. That's pretty cool. All right. I mean, so there you go. And then the pettiness factor, you know, because he wouldn't, he talked you into a monotonous while but then he wouldn't go through it.

Jann Karam 37:33

Yeah, that one wasn't as petty. Right, right. I can see how some other ones were petty. Like, what was other pet? Well, not the big hands. One was the big hands one, Eddie,

Jeff Dwoskin 37:44

I think, um, had a little bit of something.

Jann Karam 37:47

Which one was number one, Petey?

Jeff Dwoskin 37:49

I didn't write it down. I didn't know. Oh, okay.

Jann Karam 37:53

Well, that's something for your listeners to Google.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:55

Yes, exactly. Oh, let me see. Real quick. I might have the link right here. I do.

Jann Karam 38:00

Are you doing stand up in your Michigan State?

Jeff Dwoskin 38:03

I've done it a little bit. After the pandemic, it sort of fell by the wayside. And then I started doing the podcast got so took up so much time busy. Yeah. The number one dumped a girlfriend, for pettiness reasons was Christine Taylor. Ah, because she was a loser and didn't have any friends. Not as exciting as the other one, though.

Jann Karam 38:25

Yeah, no, I don't even remember that episode. I'll have to look it up.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:30

Some of them it's like you don't remember then you start to watch and go, Oh, I remember this. It all kind of clicks back.

Jann Karam 38:36

Oh, right. I know. I don't I see them. And I said, I say to myself, Sal, no, did I see this before? Because sometimes she you know, you know, you watch him and you like you're watching it for the first time. It's fun. It is instead of the news. It's fun

Jeff Dwoskin 38:52

to rewatch all the Seinfeld's? Because I remember when you're watching it real time, there was a point where everyone claimed, oh, it's kind of it's not as good as it used to be right. You know, just because yeah, but now if you watch it, and you don't know what season it's from, because they never play him in order. They're all just great. Yeah, they're all just right. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah.

Jann Karam 39:11

Come on, people.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:11

Come on. We will. So going with a theme of making your own thing happen.

Jann Karam 39:16

Oh, I like that thing.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:18

I know reclining nude on the CN.

Jann Karam 39:22

Ciana Yes.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:23

I watched the whole thing. You're not nude once.

Jann Karam 39:26

Oh, di no. It's a trick.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:29

It's amazing. I like it's so cool, though. So that's a one woman show. That'd be cool. Yeah. And then your painting. Yeah. And I saw on your website you have all these cool paintings and painting things that you sell

Jann Karam 39:41

there for say, oh, I want someone to buy a painting. I have so many paintings and my friends storage which I hoped didn't flood and then I have a bunch here so they're all for sale. Okay, no, but

Jeff Dwoskin 39:54

yeah. How did you either more for work your way into all the stand up and then And then creating this one person show. And then incorporating, which I'm guessing, your love of painting. And I guess your acting background. So it's, it's like a whole merger of all things up to this point.

Jann Karam 40:13

Oh, that's cool. Maybe that's the new title. Oh, that's so great. Well, I guess in the 90s, when everything got kind of dried up with stand up, you know how all the clubs were closing and then, and then it was like, go to hell, and oh, you're mainstream. And now we're doing alt, which everybody's been doing all forever. I when they say all comedy, it's very bougie huh. Kinda pretentious. You know, that whole thing? And then you I couldn't get on the go. No, if somebody said, I go, can I get on the show with the Largo? Oh, no offense, one of the Booker's said, but I know you from the a list. And I go, what's that? I guess like, because I didn't want like that airline jokes or which I'm not I wasn't ever doing and the young comedian special, I shouldn't complain, I'm going to be more positive anyway. So then I was also frustrated with the fact that stand up comedy was limited in what you could say. And I wanted to kind of reach more in depth, delve deeper into subjects, you know, about family. And so and then I painted at home. And I was like, Oh, maybe I combined the paint expression of paint with words. And therefore, you know, I could take it a lot further. I started doing it in 97. And then in 2015, then George slaughter had seen it a few years prior. And he's the creator of laughing. And he said, Let's shoot this and then then we did and finished it by gets broadcast ready, but didn't get it anywhere to you know, I still want to HBO or something like that. But it's its own kind of genre, right? It's doing all those stand up specials.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:54

Yeah, it's very unique. And it's, it's actually it's really, I thought it was really cool. I enjoyed it. Oh, thank you did under the big MooMoo you make a lot of things happen for yourself, which is really cool. So that's kind of your thread, right?

Jann Karam 42:07

I think so. Yeah. It's just like, I'm gonna cuz somebody said, yeah, that's my thing is I just get I just like, I'm just gonna keep moving, and keep moving and do my own thing and not be restricted by what you know, because those agents, they're like, Oh, you got a dog go on the road. Stay in town. So you can audition for pilot season while I did it. But I took myself off the road. I got rid of I didn't headline. And then those clubs wouldn't have me back, you know, I mean, because you canceled or whatever. And then it's like, shoot, you're on a roll. And then you try to do the right thing. But it ended up being like not so yeah, I find that doing my own thing. I feel the most empowered and less restrained. And also, I'm not waiting around, you know, not that people can't help you or don't make things happen. But then

Jeff Dwoskin 42:56

I think the reality is for most people, the best things that happened to them or will happen to them, they made themselves. Yeah, I think it's a great path. If Larry calls and says, Hey, we got an episode of Curb season 12. That's just a cherry on cherry on top.

Jann Karam 43:10

And it's because of the work that I did that somebody would call the it's because of the work the stand up or you know, the preparation so that you are good enough so that you can get those calls

Jeff Dwoskin 43:21

opportunities not randomly knocking for Yeah, you earned it.

Jann Karam 43:25

Yeah, well, it's tight. Yeah. I mean, I feel like now it's okay. It's either burn bragging or downplaying. I gotta get this interview. Right. But

Jeff Dwoskin 43:35

you'll have it perfect.

Jann Karam 43:38

Maybe it'll be all come together. You want to hear about under the big MooMoo? Yeah. Okay, so the guy Glenn patnik was one of the people that that told William Morris, she needs to have a series, we could put her together with the growing pains or there was a girl that was on their account. Remember, she needs to have a holding deal or whatever. Well, William Morris never like took that lead and pursued it and made it happen. Well, I also wanted to be a filmmaker. So I wrote under the big Moo Moo, which is a story about my mom comes to visit drives me crazy. But there's still this bond. It's poignant and funny. And Jerry Seinfeld watched it and said, one of his quotes is, he thought it was hilarious. And when you get to the end, if you have a mom, you can't not cry. So even that's from Jerry Seinfeld.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:28

That's awesome. Yeah. So I said,

Jann Karam 44:31

I'm going to make this short film. Because I like you know, let's take matters into our own hands again, going back to my ASU mantra. So I wrote the short film and everybody's like, nobody's gonna give you money for a short film. So I sent it to Glenn patnik at Castle Rock, who was the producer of Seinfeld who I had met because he liked my stand up and he's the one that said he wanted to Tolgoi more to give me a deal. Well, then he said, Let's have lunch, and we did and then he said, What if I give you holding deal money? $50,000 And this is like in 97 are to make this film because they made El Mariachi for 7000. But he didn't know like all the post production and all he said what if you do that and then I give you that and you make this film and we'll use it as like a pilot for a series or to show the network's Well, it took a lot longer. I did it all guerilla style. It wasn't it was Castle Rock umbrella, but I had to do it, do it all myself, like put the crew together and Castle Rock help production management guy, Jeff Stott had to sign off on it. And I had an office, it wasn't like this department, that department to put all the departments and I got a producer George Grubb that helped me and produced it and then we pulled it together. But it was like over a year later, by the time I went through everything and post production, because it wasn't digital, you know, and one festival awards, but by then Glenn paddock goes like oh, and then I think he sent it to CBS or something. And then they wanted the multicam that was friends and Seinfeld in this was like a single single cam how they are now like on Hulu and you know the series that are single camera. You were too ahead of your time. I know right? That's what I say. So now because they said oh, it's only about the day in a life. It's not really a series per se and we don't know who the regular characters are. And it's not but it one festivals and I was proud of it. And it was like one of those things like okay, mission accomplished. That was the goal and I accomplished it but wasn't wanna monetize. Is that the word? You know, how do I get my now my dream is is for Rob Reiner because he's re brought up Castle Rock because Rob Reiner's Castle Rock, right, right. And my dream is now to get it to Rob Reiner somehow and go, Hey, I want to make the feature film version of this of 25 years later, mom and daughter now mom's older, and then revisit that. So that's my don't tell anyone. But that's my new my new goal.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:03

All right,

Jann Karam 47:04

I guess you Montra

Jeff Dwoskin 47:06

and Rob Reiner could use a head so I think this would be perfect.

Jann Karam 47:10

I know. Let's let's get him. Let's get him on your podcast and you close.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:16

You make it happen. I'll find out. Okay.

Jann Karam 47:18

Okay. I'll find you have one was really good. laughs Yeah. because sadly like 50 It's like a good laughs Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:27

Tell me about touring with Dana Carvey.

Jann Karam 47:29

Oh, yeah, so Oh my god. Well, I met him through a mutual comedian in 2009. And they got me got me on a show. Then he asked me if I would open for him and he was doing some big theatre India or something like Tallinn or something. And then somewhere else, and I opened for him and then then he started asking me to open for him and then he is two sons did stand up. And then he asked me, we went on he that they wanted to like, get up and practice and get their chops. And so we went kinda all over different small clubs and everywhere, so I post open do 20 Then the boys separately and then eventually together a team. And then Dana, so it was really a lot of fun. And the great thing about it is that his wife, she loved me and she's the one that advocated like well you need Jann on the show you need tired of all these guys. And she did that's not what she said but but she was she wanted the female energy. She liked that kind of the it was like a nice nurturing sort of fun show. It wasn't aggressive and hostile. Not that all men are that way. But it was nice to have like a female wife potentially threatened you know, because a lots of the women will get in the way of the of comedians, you know, female comedians don't take that out of context, ladies, but I it was really wonderful that she's the one that makes she could have said, No, I don't want her going on the road with you. Or, you know, but it wasn't about that for her was about she really loved the show. And she was advocating for that. That's awesome. That was great. I love her. I love them. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 49:12

I've kept you forever. I appreciate you hanging with me. I did. I did want to kind of just kind of end with and mention okay, you know, like when you listen to another comic, sometimes you have a lot of funny material. So you know, you'll know what I mean by this. What will you say? There's that one line where you're like, Oh, God, that's really I wish I had thought of that. So the your joke about visualization. Oh, say like, I don't visualize what I don't want and I have that. Yeah. That line to me is brilliant. Like, beyond brilliant. I every time I heard you add watch a thing and you do that line. I'm like, love it. I can hear that over and over again. It's

Jann Karam 49:50

Oh, thank you so much that happened in a gym. I know. It's one of those where like it I got so sick of those people saying it But I didn't have I had didn't put it all together, right? You know, you hear these cliches. And as I said, it makes me sick. And then you go, yeah, you're right. And I was in the gym, at Gold's Gym in Hollywood, and in the locker room, and this girl said, Well, you have to visualize. If you want something, you have to visualize it. And I said, Well, I don't visualize what I don't want. And I have that. And then they laughed. And I said, That's it. That's the one that I wrote it down. That's really what you know, when it comes out organically, I guess is the real situation. Right?

Jeff Dwoskin 50:35

It's wonderful when that happens. Well, thanks for hanging out with me on your way to the bill burr podcast.

Jann Karam 50:41

This is good practice. No, I wish my bill burr podcast would be this good

Jeff Dwoskin 50:46

name drop me on the bill burr podcast. Get me to so then I can pick up on

Jann Karam 50:52

that was Andrew Should we call him and go? Hey, don't worry. Are you happy though? I mean, did we do we? Did we touch all the

Jeff Dwoskin 51:00

elements? We did great. We did great.

Jann Karam 51:03

Insight, truth raw honesty, pain, pay those?

Jeff Dwoskin 51:08

I think we hit all that. Jann, tell everyone where they can hang out with you online and your website. You know,

Jann Karam 51:15

I did a podcast with I called in in my bed. And then we did Fred Stoller actually, in my bed. Funny. Oh, intimate conversations with people I've never slept with. And so Fred was here, Fred Stoller. And he was in the young comedian special. But there was like March 7, right before the world came to an end. And we shot it, and that's on YouTube. So if you want to watch that, and I'm thinking I'm gonna re pick that up. And can I borrow your microphone?

Jeff Dwoskin 51:42

Yes, you can you set it up. I watched the I heard you on his podcast. I think it was an earlier podcast you had from like, 2000. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Tell him to my return my calls. I'll have him on the podcast. Tell everyone where they can find you online where you hang out online and stuff.

Jann Karam 51:59

Okay, so I'm Facebook, right? Or Instagram is Jann Jann Karam. I'm there a lot. I have stories and reels, Facebook, Jann Karam. And then Jann karem.com,

Jeff Dwoskin 52:11

I guess is that good. That's perfect. You now that you know that? I can't do what I can hear. I can hear everyone hanging up and going there right now. Well, thank you so much for hanging out with me. I so appreciate it.

Jann Karam 52:25

Oh, thank you. It was so much fun. Jeff. Thanks for having me on. And I really appreciate you reaching out to me and asking me to be a guest on your podcast.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:35

Well, I'm so glad you said. Yes. All right. How awesome was Jann Karem. Jann is so funny. She's so talented. Go to the shownotes you can find her YouTube channel. Go to her website. Watch her award winning short film under the big MooMoo. You can watch her acclaimed solo play reclining nude on Laci Anga. I'm not sure I said that. Right. But the link is right. So much of Jann's work for you to enjoy. Well, with the interview over it can only mean one thing. That's right. We've come to the end of yet another episode. How do they fly by so fast? I want to thank my special guests once again, Jann Karam. And of course, I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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