#235 Kathy Garver: Surviving Cissy and Keeping the Legacy of Family Affair Alive

CTS Announcer 0:01

If you're a pop culture junkie, who loves TV, film, music, comedy and other really important stuff, then you've come to the right place. Get ready and settle in for classic conversation, the best pop culture interviews in the world. God's right, we circled the globe. So you don't have to. If you're ready to be the king of the water cooler, then you're ready for classic conversations with your host, Jeff Dwoskin.

Jeff Dwoskin 0:29

All right, Nancy, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. And you get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 235 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be a scandalous affair. i Good. We're here to talk family affair with none other than Kathy Garver. You love Kathy Assissi Rachel, the slave girl in the 10 commandments, and of course, the voice of Firestar and Spider Man and His Amazing Friends. So many stories await you. And that's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds. Just a quick reminder, our last interview with Fritz Coleman and Wheezy vainqueur to La broadcasting legends Do not miss that we dive deep into their podcast and and that time they both testified in the Michael Jackson criminal trial. Great stuff. Don't miss it. You know what else you shouldn't miss this conversation with Kathy Garver. We're diving deep into her memoir surviving sissy, my family affair of life and Hollywood. No stone will go unturned as we dive into the past with Kathy Garver. Enjoy. All right, everyone, I'm excited to introduce you to my next guest, cultural icon, author, star movie stage radio voice over animation, audio book narration you love there as Rachel the slave girl Firestar. And of course, the best big sister in the world, forever loved as sissy on family affair. Welcome to the show, Kathy Garver.

Kathy Garver 2:15

Well, thank you very much. Very happy to be here.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:19

So glad to have you here. I I've been doing my podcast for years. So you know, my family's kind of over it. But and so but I, when I told my wife who I was talking to that she's like, I tried to like kind of capture that emotion where she like repeated back, sissy. And like she got she almost fell over like she got so excited.

Kathy Garver 2:43

We have the Mrs. B's legal,

Jeff Dwoskin 2:45

you know, I don't know, I didn't everyone didn't everyone though

Kathy Garver 2:49

a lot of people did. They're still making them.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:52

That was one of the interesting things that I learned reading your book, how much stuff was made, how much cool merchandise was made for family affair,

Kathy Garver 3:01

my newest book, The Family Affair scrapbook, I devote like a couple of chapters into all of the merchandise and everything. Because in 1966, they were just getting into all the merchandising, and it just, it took off. So we had the lunch pails and paper dolls and the view masters, if you remember, well, you're too young. But they are masters that were very cool. And coloring books. And Disney, of course discovered that and they make more money off of their merchandising than they do on the original product. Now, since we, they're not making any of our stuff anymore, but they are making more money off the DVDs and selling it to different platforms.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:44

I know you're busy in general with acting and voiceover and all that. But it seems that you also have a full time job just keeping all the memories and family affair top of mind and alive.

Kathy Garver 3:59

I'm kind of like the banner bearer for family affair, because unfortunately, well Johnny Whitaker is still around, but he's kind of out of business. So I'm the standard bearer for it. And I've written all the books about it primarily. And so it's something that I really like to do. And we have a pilot out for a sequel called Aunt Sissy and proud to be producing that and starring in it. I think it's better. You know, they're doing so many reboots. But I believe sequels are better than reboots. Because people they did a reboot of family affair, maybe 15 years ago, and it just tanked and it wasn't good. It wasn't the same Buffy wasn't the same system and it's a well it's this and Tim Curry as Miss Mr. French, that's never going to fly. So when they have an original character, and they can see how that character develops and have some flashbacks to the original show, those always seem to fare much much better. In my opinion,

Jeff Dwoskin 5:01

Kathy, I was just thinking about this and couldn't agree with you more I hate when they're like we're remaking like with, I'll just use a family affair when for an example, couldn't you just come up with a new story about orphans? Does it have to be called family affair? Do you have such little confidence in your idea that you have to use an old name that you know people will immediately love and then Elise give you a shot? What happens? Just good old fashioned comp with a good idea and work hard to make it great? Well, it

Kathy Garver 5:30

comes with branding and knowing the name of it. And so so many people know the name of family affair than they know of the orphans. So people are going to immediately not immediately but tune in because I know that or I remember that or I've seen her her Facebook, and she's still on Facebook. Oh, this is gonna be exciting. And then the kind of disappointment comes in. But they do that, for that reason, right? rather have the real people tune in and say, Hey, we're still here.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:00

I was trying to find answers. He I was trying to dig around and try and find it. If it exists online. I wanted to see it because that sounded amazing. Like you being the new main character, maybe you bring in people Yeah, it's like the next generation, you know, and it's like, then you don't have to exactly, you can kind of adapt it a bit. I get the whole marketing slant to it. And, you know, it's just easier with the IP. But it's like, that's come on, you know, if you got Tim Curry and all these other cool people, you can call it some Yeah, put

Kathy Garver 6:27

them into a different, you know, a different concept. Right? Well, we both agree in different ways now. That's great.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:33

Now we I think we're on the same page, we're on the same page. So I wanted to talk about I'm from Michigan. So I want to talk about probably one of your hidden gems that maybe you don't talk about a lot. But when you and Sebastian co hosted the JL Hudson parade in Detroit.

Kathy Garver 6:49

Oh, yes. Well, I actually like Michigan, you a Michigander we're looking at you. We're taking a gander at a Michigan fan. It was fun. And it gets a little cold. They're a little chilly. But I remember that parade. And I had on this great big coat that I had gotten in New York with my previous manager who kind of stole most of my money. But that's another story. And it had you know, great big kind of her collar and, and Sebastian and I were getting along great. And my manager at that time, I had come out with a record called LEM the orphan reindeer my first and last record and it was written by Tommy boys and by the heart. If you remember that they were the Monday. Yeah, the monkeys the last train to Clarksville, and they had just a whole repertory and fabulous, fabulous songs. And they wrote this special little ditty. He was manager of them as well for them, the orphan reindeer. And so my gosh, okay, while you're on television, say that you're coming out with LEM the Orphan reindeer and it's you know, people can listen to it. So being a good girl following what I'm supposed to be doing at that time. I was just 20. I said, Okay. Well, I said that when I got the Chileans look I have ever seen from Mr. Punch, aka Sebastian. He was just astounded that I would advertise something like that. Now, of course, that's everybody says what they're doing next and what's going on. But at that time, that was more of a rarity.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:20

I hope you didn't think I didn't know about Lamb, the orphan reindeer.

Kathy Garver 8:24

You may know, you may know, Jeff, that perhaps there might be one or two listeners that didn't know about it.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:31

The I will be putting a link to the YouTube view they'd say spoken word classic. May I call it that? The

Kathy Garver 8:43

Yes, you met.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:46

I will put a link to that in the show notes when this goes live. So everyone can enjoy it. So

Kathy Garver 8:52

do you want to know why it's called the spoken word classic that you just made up right now. That was why you made me laugh so much.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:58

I know why. But go ahead. Well, I'd rather hear from you. Would you like me to tell you? Yes,

Kathy Garver 9:04

listeners. Well, okay, so my managers manukan Call me and Bobby and they wrote this song. And we went to the recording studio to record the song. Oh boy. And I was ready. Now. I had sung on my life. I was a little megalin kitty starting when I was three years old. And this was when Ethel megalin she owned the studio and they discovered Shirley Temple. Course every mother thought their daughter was going to be Shirley Temple as did mind but I learned to sing and I learned to dance and and I had done lots of singing performances. So we get into the recording studio and and the user begins in the very midst of nowhere scan towel holders. It's pilot reindeer struggling in this and they said Wait, wait, what is your off key? What do you mean I am off key I am not key. I've been singing all my life this as well. You have been singing them. So long story short They decided that perhaps I could make this a spoken word classic, actually, I call it one of the first rap songs. So I spoke in the very midst of nowhere, said Hollywood, whoa. And in the back, I have a whole chorus of children singing on key and the right tune. So that's a story of The Making of Lem. And we had a little stuck gear to go with it.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:23

And adorable 45 Min. And Kathy, what's an orphan?

Kathy Garver 10:29

I'm surrounded. Yes, I've had a lot of orphans in my life.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:33

So I know the idea. I know the audition for Family Affair came when you are at UCLA. But what I found extremely fascinating, interesting that I did not know by the time you audition at UCLA, and you just mentioned a megalin studios, but you had already had like two decades worth of roles. You know what 60 TV shows at this point? 40 commercials. So how do people treat you a college a UCLA because this is now this is pre family affair. But you're already right. You're already kind of an active actor, and I'm sure everyone's seeing you like what was it like just being on campus? I mean, what was the do you get treated differently? Where you just, you know, were you trying to just fit in? Were you just trying to be a normal teenager or college?

Kathy Garver 11:17

Well, two things my parents and especially my mom says, okay, when I was a child, when you know you're out doing the 10 commandments or our Miss Brooks or whatever, you know, you're doing just don't tell everybody what you're doing. Just they will I was out so that inculcated in me this necessity for normalcy. So I had to be like everybody else. And I quite normal. Your listeners did not see me with my little tick. No, that was just comedy. So I had that to go with. But once I got to UCLA, and I after that, I went to a shrink. And I said here, here's the thing, I am in the sorority, I'm a cheerleader. I am taking these classes, I'm trying to get A's and I actually did very well in college. I see but I have this whole other life. It's like that old the show I let three lives. And I says Now is this making me totally a triple schizophrenic or that would be six personalities. What am I supposed to do with all of this? He says they they are not so different from one another because I was I was going on your interviews while I was living at this already doing the riflemen and other shows that were on in the 60s and still keeping up my career and still studying and leading an active dating life and a fun life and but I guess it's alright, because they you know, I took it from each one of those things. And I've continued that all the way up to as old as I am. Now. I have a lot of things that I think it's just my personality. I'd like to be busy a lot. Now I'm a Sagittarian. You know, so we have to do this and that other thing, and I'm a woman that we can multitask and I'm sure you can multitask, Jeff but that isn't what people the generalization that they make for men and women. There you have it. I'm a multitasker.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:04

I love it. You guys really just go and I was in the 10 commandments.

Kathy Garver 13:10

Little movies like that.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:11

That was actually your second Movie Night of the Hunter being kind of your big debut right at seven and then eight. You're alongside Charlton Heston

Kathy Garver 13:19

and ignited the hunter. I was alongside Robert Mitchum and Shelley Winters and Lillian Gish and Peter graves. I mean, it was just a fantastic cast. And that was Charles Laughton first and unfortunately, last directorial duty. That was really quite an entree into the entertainment world, but then to go to that, and Cecil B. DeMille, and Charlton Heston and Deborah Bajra your Brenner? Yeah, so I got started with some, I guess heavy hitters.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:49

Tell me about Rachel the slave girl for those don't know, right. So save girl was the girl that gave Moses the idea to free the Jews. It's a big role. It's a really big,

Kathy Garver 13:58

you know, she's just a footnote in history in the Bible, but that was actually assessed will be to Neil's creation, I was just hired to be an extra with hazel Macmillan. She was my agent. And so I was on this sad I'm wearing all my makeup, dark makeup in robes and all of that. And it was during the exit as part of the movie, and we're all getting out of town going out and daughter lunch, and I'm on this rickety wagon. And I'm sitting up on the wagon, and I hear this big voice cry out. Don't let that little girl's face get in the camera. I said Is he talking to me? Is that God? Well, it wasn't God. It was just it was very high up. It was Cecil B DeMille on a big crane getting a big overshot. So I see oh, I guess that was me. This fellow came over and kind of hit me behind the blanket. We did the scene and then descended Cecil B DeMille, that theatrical deity down to earth where we were and I thought up my wagon down to earth, and we chatted and Then the assistant director told my mom, well, I think your daughter is going to be on this movie a lot longer. And he actually wrote Rachel into the movie, that he was very want to do that, because he realized that these big epics and these big spectacular things, and they don't get that today. You know, with all the special effects, you're watching the special effects, and Excuse me, where's the story, where's the emotion, so he would actually pick someone out and give them and allow the audience to feel a little bit more and to relate to actually what was going on in the feelings of the people there. That was a long story that we've got, we got a lot of decades.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:45

Sorry to interrupt, but we had to take a quick break. I want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my epic conversation with Kathy Garver. She's about to share another story with Moses, and we're back. You remained connected with Charlton Heston till he passed?

Kathy Garver 16:11

Yes, yes. He was a really marvelous person. I was dating this fellow Michael Dante, and they were big tennis players and partners. We actually go to Kevin's tournaments, but we went up to his house and Mulholland, and they would play tennis. And I'd sit, you know, on the veranda, and his wife would bring out lemonade. And I remember that I have this wonderful picture of Charlton Heston and me on the paper mache Mountain. And he's asking, Are you afraid? And I said, No, but Rachel is and she was my dog. So I sent him like, 10 pictures, and I said, Would you mind signing these, and he had Alzheimer's at the time, but he's signed all those pictures send about copy to and of course, being a hoarder, I still have the letter that he sent.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:00

That's, that's amazing, and you're not a hoarder, I would have saved all of that. I would have saved everything you got to.

Kathy Garver 17:06

I just did an exhibit. It was the 50th anniversary of family affair. And I think that's odd, since I'm 39. But there was and they have this valley relics Museum in San Fernando Valley. It's really great museum. I did this whole big exhibit. And I just went to my garage. I just memorabilia. And I picked out all these things to help make the exhibit. And my office is kind of like a museum and I put stuff up on the wall. That's why it's so messy. But that's it's the genius. See, that's what your office is messy, too. All right.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:39

Yeah, I have everything around me that I love, things like that and frame things. Oh, so I do have a question. This is Alice, just one quick question on this one. Have you ever gone back to Blue popsicles?

I know it was a traumatic thing for you back then. And you

Kathy Garver 18:00

and I still I cannot No, I cannot eat a blue raspberry popsicle. You kidding? I would be struck by lightning. Should we say tell the backstory. Or people can just get my book and read it.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:13

We want to tease a little bit. And then I'll go get your book surviving sissy, my family affair of life in Hollywood, which is a great, great book. And they can read about the blue raspberry popsicle. Yeah. And even more on the 10 commandments. There's plenty well, that will tell just enough to also get them interested and running out to get the book. Hopefully they haven't run out right now. And they're still listening. Listen to the end everyone, and then you'll then you'll be ready. So when you're at UCLA, and you've got now all this behind you, in your head, were you thinking, I'm going to, I'm going to sell it I'm going to go to college, I'm gonna I'm going to be a column, you do the college thing. And But then along comes your agent calls. And we have family affair, we want to use audition for family affair. Because I know like one of the things that you mentioned was, it came with a commitment of 32 episodes, which means it would have been a long thing. It wasn't like a pilot, you'd come back. So did you have to like kind of did you think did you think about that? Was that a part of the thought process? Or? No, I'm an actor, I act?

Kathy Garver 19:17

Well. I was just excited to get a job. I'm always happy when I get a job. You know, it's the height of anxiety and under stress, they to lose your job to get a job. Well actors do that every day and you wonder why they're stressed. But I'm always happy to get a job in which case I went on the audition. And I didn't know what was going to come after that. But they've already sold this television series and they you know they need someone they have the whole cast they just need the teenage daughter they had someone cast and that didn't work out. So I said okay, and at the same time we went on an interview for a for a little religious thing called This is the life as I said I was going on auditions while I was in Cool. And so this was just another audition in my agent calls the next day. So you've got this, you've got this series and I says, Oh, well, good. And you've got the other job. And I said, Wow, this is definitely a day for celebration, but I didn't know what it would entail. And we shot I was able to finish out my third year. And we started in the summer to shoot and I said, Well, I obviously am not going to be able to continue for my last year at college, which was fine, because I mean, as soon as the show came out, well, I didn't know I was in a store called Bullock's, which is in Hudson's Bullock's Robinson Zeid, like all these department stores. I was on the escalator. And this one says, Oh, I saw you last night that that was a great show. Someone recognize me. What is this? They want my autograph? Why do they want my autograph? So that was kind of an awakening to being on television and being on a series. And then there it goes, where for five years, I did go back and I finished my school. And I got my my bachelor's in speech. That's what taught me a lot of things. And psychology. My psychology would tell me to shut up Kathy. And then I went back and got a master's in theater arts.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:14

That's awesome that you, you went back and kind of finish that was after you went to the I want to say the royal the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art in London. I get there.

Kathy Garver 21:24

That was very good. Yes, sir. Yes, that's exactly right.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:28

For a family affair. So what the audition process I know, you mentioned, there was another sissy cast that you mentioned, I read in your book, it's you read these things now and just get flabbergasted. She gained a little weight. And so they said, maybe she's right. Everything was treated a lot differently back then. And maybe not. Anyway. So was that what opened the door then for you? They did they started having doubts on this other sissy. And so now you're there. Can you tell me a little bit about just the audition process for the role?

Kathy Garver 22:00

Well, I had my same agent that I had had ever since the 10 commandments, and she knew me well. I was at the sorority house, and I get a call from my mom. And she says, Oh, you have an audition this afternoon. And I said, Oh, okay, that's That's great. How many classes and she says, I'll come and pick you up. It's way on the other side of town. It's in Hollywood nicer. Okay, great. This is the only thing is they want a blonde. And I said, Oh, well, at that time, I had hair like yours. My I had very dark hair. I have dark eyes. That's what allowed me to be a slave girl, Rachel. And I played Indians when I was young. And so I said, Oh, well, what are we going to do is I have an idea. I love my mother. My mother was was very smart, very creative. She was also a nurse and RN. Anyway, she says I'll take care of it. So she goes to the drugstore and I kind of know what she's going to do. And I go to this blonde that I know in the sorority house to the stumps, Spartanburg, tutti Spartanburg. She was married to Gregory Bateson. Anyway, she was blind. And I said today Do you have any like blonde makeup, you know, like whiter, eyebrows or whatever. It's just Oh, here, she gave me her whole palette. So there I put on all my blonde makeup. My mother comes with his can streaks and tips to cause him. So she's sprays my brown hair all over. I look like I don't know what I look like sending out a gold finger. You know, it was like a helmet, push it and you know, very solid. So I go, I talked to the Creator, producer, writer, a family affair. wonderful guy. And Hartman. He was the president of the Writers Guild. And he was wonderful. So I'm sitting and I'm thinking we're having a very nice chat. And then he says, And he looks at me says, What is the matter with your hair? And I said, my hair? And he said, Yes. He says it's turning green. Green. Oh, must be the light. chatted in laugh. It was okay. It broke a lot of ice. And he said, Okay, thank you for this very nice meeting. So oh, well, that was it. Mom tried. And that's when my agent called the next day and said you've got a job. But they said you have to go to Max Factor and see if you can get a blonde wig. And I said, Okay, Max Factor is still there. It's now the Hollywood museum. And they still have the room. So I go in and get this long blonde wig blue and white check dress that Western costumers. I look like Alice in Wonderland. I come and do the pilot episode. And they said, Okay, that's fine. And then she calls again, she says, okay, you've got it with one caveat. Never wear that blue dress or that long blonde wig again. I said, Okay, it's agreed. That was the audition process.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:52

That's awesome. How long did it take for all of you to kind of click as a family like, I mean, just emotionally off stage like where did the ask did you guys all just immediately get along? Was it I know because you were like in between, right? You were like older than the kids younger than the dogs. Because part of the magic of that show was just kind of this the synergy and the chemistry between all of the characters. So is that something you guys just that electricity you just felt right away?

Kathy Garver 25:21

Yes. We instantly liked each other. I think right away. Johnny Whitaker and I were born on the same day December the 13th different years of course, so we had that same kind of personality. And a nice was in April, not that I'm you know, sunsign total person, but I think what was the immediate kind of relationship is we all have strong families. And Brian absolutely adored children. And so I he's never met a child. You've never had met a child or a teenager that he just didn't think was fabulous and adored. And it Sebastian with all his pompousness and everything, loved his family loved his wife had three kids. And Johnny came from a Mormon family had seven brothers and sister and Nisa. Her mother adored her, but and she had one brother, but she always wanted to be a part of a family like that. I think that that and we all really kind of loved we did, we'd love each other. It was just a nice synergy, as you say. And it was an a lot of nice warmth and electricity bouncing back and forth.

Jeff Dwoskin 26:24

Yeah, I mean, I remember watching the show a lot growing up, I rewatched a bunch of episodes, just to kind of everyone can watch them they're on to be and other things. You can stream all the episodes. I don't know why I forgotten Adi, maybe as a kid, that whole orphan thing didn't really connect, you know, I like I like three kids live with their uncle. You know, you know, sometimes as a kid, you, you know, pick up but the first two episodes are, they're pretty deep in terms of the family dynamics and feeling real. And Buffy kind of breaks into uncle Bill's heart. You know, but, and then you guys, you and Jody show up at the end. And then he kind of brings you all in and he has doubts even about Sisi right. He was thinking maybe I can't Yeah. And so like that whole kind of creation of the family, from the tragedy that the three of the kids had in the show was like, Oh, wow, this is this is deep, obviously. I don't know. It's silly to say like, because I know, that's what the show is. But as a kid, I when I was watching it, I think maybe that I just sometimes the deeper things when you're younger, you kind of it probably sounds silly, so.

Kathy Garver 27:29

And plus we didn't really talk about it, it was something and especially in the first episodes, it was a dramedy, but there was always I think this layer of Trieste is kind of sadness that permeated through it, and this need this need to be connected. And even though nothing was said, I think that the children's were felt so gratified, and the little ones not so much, but knowing that there was someone to care for them, and that they were all together. And that they would stay all together as long as they could, anytime anybody wanted to leave. Like I wanted to go to the Peace Corps. I wanted to get married and be like, Oh, since you don't go. And I gave him I stayed with my family. So they grow. But there was, well, yeah, I

Jeff Dwoskin 28:13

mean, the dynamic. I mean, he was your uncle, but he was definitely a strong father figure. And I know, he's like, he was kind of a macho guy and in the movies, but like, such a tender heart on the show, I rewatched waltz from Vienna. You know, just him treating you like his own daughter, just until you hear the 17 year old that wants to run off is in love with love and wants to kind of you know, run off. It was just, it was touching, you know, it was just like, sometimes when you watch older shows, they feel a bit dated and all that kind of stuff. But I was watching I was like, these are great. I mean, this is just solid. I mean, like it was filmed great. The scripts were great, you guys were all great. I mean, it's just like, when something's done great, it holds up and this, I do encourage everyone to go rewatch it. You know, that's why one of the things I love about this podcast is kind of rediscovering and kind of diving into things. And

Kathy Garver 29:06

it's like classic conversations. And I think like this particular television series, and like a couple others are really classic, and they will continue to be and one thing, they were shot on film, which makes them very warm to me. And you'll see that in the book how I kind of say, well, why why was this so successful? Why can people still watch it? And I had mentioned and Hartman at the beginning, who was the guy and I say that the head of the Writers Guild, but they had all come from movies, and they you know, he was with Laurel and Hardy and, and Bob Hope and all those things. And we had trolley Barton for our director that also did those movies. So they are coming from that real classic movie, beautifully produced and lit, the sound, the lighting the set design, and again We followed like a classic storyline, and Edie Hartman has said, What made this good and he says, Well writing, if you want the story start out, like you're at the bottom of a palm tree. And, you know, there's things around, climb up on the palm tree, you're at the top of the palm tree, you see everything that can be seen in news, oh, okay, and you slide down. So it's like, you start out with a problem, you're climbing up, you reach the pinnacle, the climax and the de noir, you know, the ending. And then we had a little, not a moral at the end of the story. But underneath, there was, Oh, I see, if you have a problem like that. That's a really a good way to solve it. Talk to those people. Love those people. give those people a little understanding.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:44

Absolutely. I rewatched a member of the family too, because in the book you mentioned, that's one of your favorite episodes. It's one of those things like it felt so real, like it's so like, if you think of like a classic misunderstandings on Three's Company, right. But there's misunderstandings in this episode, but in a real in a real human way that a real family would have to deal with the subtleties of, of a misunderstanding. And the feelings that can transpire because of that. And Sebastian Cabot's role in this like, is just like, the undercurrent of like him, and that his whole servant community or whatever, you know, like what they would have at the park when he would meet and I was like, I'm a member of the family. That's right, it was so touching. And I was like, just subtle things like, Hey, God, Buffy, I'm gonna make your character chairs. And then Mr. French gets upset. And Brian is like, well, you know why he's upset, right? And it was like, it's just the subtleties of different communication. Every one of the episodes is kind of like that. And it was just like, that's why it was like, so enjoyable to kind of just keep enjoying it. Okay, so

Kathy Garver 31:45

well, and I want to say, you know, that Brian set that tone a lot too, because he was such a realistic actor, and also the writing of it was taken from real life. And I was just looking up on my haunted wall up here because I have caricatures of the family. And I actually did the caricatures in in that episode. And just today, I was talking to this fellow, Tom Richardson, and he was with Mad Magazine. And there was an ad magazine that did like a parody of family affair. Well, he's just made a new sketch of the family affair group. And some people on my Facebook says, Oh, you've got to go see that. So I just texted him today. And so he's sending me this new sketch, the family affair never dies, it just becomes a caricature or an answer. See?

Jeff Dwoskin 32:34

Wait. So you actually drew those? Yeah. That's incredible. Like why that was? Why aren't you selling those on your website and stuff like that? Was there? Those are great. I mean, like, that idea. I have a way my normal 10% Yes.

Kathy Garver 32:48

Well, well, thank you. Well, and I did read about you're an entrepreneur and all about social platforms. So yes, that's very entrepreneurial of you. I'll give you 10%.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:00

No, no, it's my pleasure. Sorry to interrupt, but we have to take a quick break. And we're back with more family affair and Kathy Garver. One of the things that was really interesting was, it was not normal for a movie star to do TV, right? And wasn't probably normal. Now, it's normal. Like every movie star now wants to be on a Netflix show, or right now even do commercials, they'll even do commercials that what's in your wallet? Back then it wasn't. It was either like really TV or you were in the movies. And here's a movie star. He's, he's really big. So it was like, so they actually, this was fascinating. I was reading it, like the whole three months shooting schedule to work around him. Does that drive you crazy? Like, did you even know what scripts because I know you were doing multiple shows at the same time. And

Kathy Garver 33:47

it was difficult. I mean, I don't think it was hard for the kids. Because you say, Well, this is just what you say. And you say it and then go to your line. And they will just wanted him to be natural. I don't think they really knew what the stories were about. But for your listeners that are quite familiar with this and haven't read the book yet. My surviving Zizi book, as you say, movie stars did not want to do television. So Don Patterson, who was our executive producer, and he had done my three sons, along with Ed Hartman, and they wanted a movie star. And Fred MacMurray had just appeared in Shaggy Dog music. Oh, he'll, he'll be perfect. So they went to Fred. And they said, Look, if you do this, you only have to work three months. And then the rest of the time. You can go do your movies. But the thing that got them was you will get a piece, a financial piece of the profits. Well, now that was the proverbial offer that Fred couldn't refuse. And then when they approached Brian, well, Glen Ford turned him down, even though and but Brian had just finished the Parent Trap and they saw what a great sense of common He that he had and his whole kind of man. And so they said, how about that three months get a piece of it. Brian says I'm on. But how about for us the workhorses that have to, you know, be doing that they we would have like scenes from three different shows, all in the same day, that all the scenes that Brian was in, which meant that all the scripts had to be done at the beginning of the season. And then we had changes, changes changes, and grow the wardrobe people and the hair people crazy to now I'm wearing this necklace and your listeners can't see. But it's a horse that my good friend Barry Barsamian gave me for Christmas bobble, but I wore this pendant in one of the episodes and it was supposed to be a hippie. Now I was still when the show finished, I will go back to UCLA and they then that switch from the semester to the quarter system. So I could scoot in a quarter. So I was supposed to go to this hippie party at UCLA. And I borrowed my outfit from family affair. And I forgot to bring back my pendant. And they were shooting the scene the next day. So poor film was strong. She went all over and tried to get one just like it. Well, she couldn't except she found one that was pretty close. And so I wore that pendant. That pendant now I gave to my friend Paul was neck who is in Chicago and has a wing of the museum in Chicago. Anyway, and it's displayed there. Now I forgot what

Jeff Dwoskin 36:40

we were taught. We were telling the craziness of that and then you were talking about continuity. Yeah, it

Kathy Garver 36:45

was it was hard, but that's the way it is. And that was that was fine. It was fun.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:50

I was talking with John Provost Timmy from Lassie, and he, he said the reason he Timmy wore the same outfit was because they shot so many different things than I never had to worry about a continuity.

Kathy Garver 37:02

And that's why Brian worked bathroom. You know all I think of the third and fourth seasons. I don't want to change I don't want to change it. Just give me a bathrobe.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:13

Tell me a little bit about your classmates. So tell me a little bit about Brian Keith just kind of like maybe a quick memory or did he become like a real uncle? Yeah, I mean, that kind of thing.

Kathy Garver 37:22

He was I remember that when Robert Kennedy was shot. And I was I was just I was so upset. I mean anybody to be assassinated like that. And we were on the set. And he was just so comforting. And he says it's because I started crying. And I said, I can't believe that that happened at why why would someone shoots someone? Why would someone kill someone like that? And so he was just very comforting, and in very dear, and he cared for people and he cared for their emotions. And that was, you know, you wouldn't maybe thought that when you saw Brian's earlier part of his career with all the macho men, but he really had very tender heart.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:02

And Sebastian Cabot, Mr. French,

Kathy Garver 38:05

Mr. Bridge was very, very, very professional. He wanted every single word exactly as it was written. And he would study those lines and study those lines and get them exactly right. And he was the antithesis of that character at home, because I went to his house to you know, come down over for dinner, and he's in like, I don't know if they had sweat pants back then, but like that, and cooked dinner for us and was just laid back and loving with his family and, and so he was totally different from that character.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:38

And then Anessa and Johnny,

Kathy Garver 38:41

and Johnny, as I say, came from like several brothers and sisters, and he was a talented little boy. Then he went on to do like Tom Sawyer, then he just got on to drugs and alcohol, unfortunately, and his family did in intercession and he got off them and so he's now often into helping other people get off drugs and and Nisa was such a smart and beautiful little girl with such a golden spirit. And she was generous and dear and sad. And you have to understand about a Nisa because she was nine when you know just to nine and Tommy was just six but she was very small. She was tiny, and they still had her five years later when she was five and nine is almost 14 years old as a teenager wearing little dresses and carrying around Mrs. Beasley so it was hard for her to find her own identity. And she didn't want to have anything more to do with with showbusiness, unfortunately, because she she could have done a lot of things, but unfortunately, she got on drugs. And then that was 18 She died unfortunately,

Jeff Dwoskin 39:46

so sad. Yeah. Rotten, Nancy Walker.

Kathy Garver 39:50

Nancy was very interesting because she came from Bonneville and the producers thought oh, well, you know, we need to put something in this season. Let's Do something different. So they got Nancy and to help Mr. French and they would have they would clash because she was the totally against his date. But being from Bonneville she wanted everything really, really quick. And we were not the quickest show world. We would have long close ups and different things and then she's she's waiting for the punch line waiting and waiting to put it in. But she was very nice. liked her.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:29

Yeah, she seemed like she'd be hilarious. And then of course, wrap it up with drama queen Steen 16. Scene Stealer. Mrs. Beasley

Kathy Garver 40:41

Yes. Mrs. Beasley you should see my therapy. Little television thing I knew. Did you see that?

Jeff Dwoskin 40:48

Yes, I did. Actually. I did. Wait, where? Where I brought a ton. I had a little thing where you were sissy again?

Kathy Garver 40:57

Yeah. TV therapy. Yeah, TV therapy.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:59

That was a great idea that that guy had. Yeah.

Kathy Garver 41:02

Terry Ray. He's He's a wonderful writer. So he was grown up sissy. And it'll show and so he has me in his he's not a psychologist or a therapist when he's playing it that the therapist, I'm not a real doctor, but I play well. But anyway, he was playing a psychiatrist, and I'm here. And so he says, oh, and he says, How are you doing as well? I'm doing fine. I keep hearing this thing in my head that oh, you keep hearing that in your head? Yes, this little tool keeps going. And he says, Well, he says, What's your last memory? Well, my last memory, I think was in 1966. I remember I was always my back was always to something and and I said, Well, look, I said I can put up with a freckle face a little kid and when it doesn't have any teeth, but I'll be darned if I'm going to put up with a polka dot dress doll with glasses and early blonde hair. And that was Mrs. Beasley. Yes, that was so we're making fun of

Jeff Dwoskin 42:00

it. And that was really funny. Because you kept talking about like camera angles. And he's like, What? What are you talking about? You're like I made a dropping her. Mrs. Beasley on the head. And she's a doll you could have started with that

Kathy Garver 42:15

was a hologram.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:17

So I also I watched you on To Tell the Truth as well. Where are you? It's funny when I do because I knew I knew it wasn't you. Right? It was married to or was one of Dolly Parton siblings. But I guess wrong. I gotta tell you. And I go out with a guy because of the the woman who was the sister, she changed your voice during the show. And then when they revealed it and she started talking, I'm like what she has the same voice is dark. How much?

Kathy Garver 42:45

I didn't notice that when she was telling the truth. And the fellow he was he was very good. But they wanted me not to have a southern accent. Because I had moved away from the little place that we had up in the mountains, that little shack, and I'd gone to Los Angeles and I had improved my speech. And so that was how I was different. But I think it would have been I would have gotten another but I only got one vote. There were only three people but I would have gotten a couple more votes because I looked like Dolly. I mean, I don't really have regrets about that. But unlike her hype and everything. So I love that show. It's fun. Now there's a reboot. That worked. Yes, that was I mean, I did to tell the truth. Back in 1960s. Oh, really? Yeah, that was the original show. In the 60s,

Jeff Dwoskin 43:34

I did learn about the locks box from you in your book. With the Hollywood Squares. That was interesting. We'll put the we'll put the pretty girl down at the bottom, which basically is right field, I guess for baseball but on the Hollywood Squares where nothing's really gonna happen. And then you prove you proved yourself and then got different squares where they wrote your jokes. That was that was really interesting. I love that you got Brian key star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame after he passed away. There's so much I know I don't want to I wanna I know we got some new stuff to talk about. But you're also like, like this amazing voice over artists you've done over at audio books. You've John. Just a million cool stuff. From my geeky point of view, Spider Man and His Amazing Friends Firestar I'll put that one at the top of my own personal list just because I think that's so cool that you're a Marvel character. When you're at a Comic Con and stuff like that. If it's not family affair, what eight by 10. Two people choose to have you sign.

Kathy Garver 44:31

Well, I've always been interested because I go to the comic cons and I bring all my Firestar stuff. And I bring I have a great picture that was taken from his cell. And now I have like little action figures that they have made a firestorm. Two years ago, they came out with a 12 inch Biostar and then there was a great big statue. And now this year, there's the triumvirate and then SpiderMan, Iceman and Firestar all together, and then they brought out Another little Firestar. So it's amazing. Now that was done in the 80s. It's amazing to me, the endurance, I'm so proud that I've done like plastic things like family affair and spider man, but I will have all those things out. And then I will also have a picture of Night of the Hunter, I have pictures of the 10 commandments and then I have an array of family affairs. And even at the Comic Cons, it depends on what the person's particular bent is. And then sometimes they'll take a family affair and a spider man, but I have like four or five different kinds of Spider Man pictures and so even if I'm at a comic con, they will take family affair pictures now I just did the Hollywood show. And I thought well, this has been primarily classics or I shall have the Firestar stuff and the Spider Man things and the other half was primarily family affair now that surprised me a little bit. I wonder if

Jeff Dwoskin 45:55

Disney plus helped with the fire star stuff because now that's all on Spider Man is amazing friends is now all on Disney plus. So it's a much more accessible

Kathy Garver 46:05

Ah yes. And they are much more into making merchandise as we had mentioned before merchandise which is coming out. And so they they know that having all these little figures and the action figures I think you're I think you're right, Mr. entrepreneur.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:21

I read about Firestar was like they originally was supposed to be the Human Torch from the Fantastic Four, but they couldn't get the rights. So they created a new character bone that were open the door for Kathy Garver. It did

Kathy Garver 46:32

and that was the first one that Stan Lee had written, especially for TV, all the other characters had been taken from the comic books. So this was the first time that Firestar appeared in the television show first and then he has like a for comic book series. And then they they did the comic books for

Jeff Dwoskin 46:53

that's awesome. You've done so many iconic things. Well, yes.

Kathy Garver 46:56

But you know, when I taught speech up in San Francisco for a while, how to do audiobooks and animation characters and ADR and all of this. And what I would tell my students is, if you're going to stay in this business for a long time, you really should hone your skills in all the different kinds of aspects of it. And especially for voiceovers, how to do a commercial voice and an animated voice and different kinds of characters and, and all of that how to narrate an audiobook because when you finish a movie, there might not be another movie for a couple of months. So you want to put in fill that in with VoiceOver stage or whatever.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:34

That's great advice. You can teach me how to do odd you can teach me how to do an audio book after okay. I did want to mention mommy's Prakash ukar azote which you rarely play you did after family affair in Israel. I just find it to be able to say it in Hebrew. That's all.

Kathy Garver 47:52

I've been pronouncing it wrong. All these because I learned Hebrew too. They wanted to do a live stage presentation of family affair in Israel. I said well, okay. So I learned it phonetically. But then I was always saying on this because che kazoo odd low good low and I but of course that was like years ago, I said it much better than saying it better.

Jeff Dwoskin 48:19

So, Kathy, when you're not writing new books, and all that kind of stuff, I know you got a new movie out yellow bird. And another one coming out real soon. You want to tell us about that?

Kathy Garver 48:29

Well, I was really happy to do yellow bird. It has won for Best Feature Film Awards from more prestigious film festivals, and Santa Monica and Singapore, Milan, Moby in Buffalo, New York. And I'm making a special appearance at the Rinda Theatre in Orinda, California. It's a beautiful historic theater. And we're going to show Yellowbird and I'm going to do a q&a and a panel and a meet and greet afterwards. When it came out. The producer was a little surprised. Amazon Prime picked a boom right up. And then that was followed by Toby and Moe me too. I hadn't heard of that. And so people can watch it now on Amazon Prime, you just go to Amazon prime.com and then put in the little search box Yellowbird. And it pops right up flies right out. flies right out and you can click on it.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:25

Awesome. Yeah. Any other big projects coming up? So I finished

Kathy Garver 49:28

old man Jackson, and that will make its debut June 1 in Houston, Texas. That's where we shot it by play Mrs. Jackson, which Patrick is in it. That's it. That's awesome. Now there is a new network coming out called naast and OS t, which is short for nostalgia. And I'm going to do a 28 episode little series for them like TCM and so I'll do the intros and the outros of all classic movies. This a great network because a classic network because most of them Unlike me TV and Roku and cozy and all those, they'll license that TV shows in the movies, but they don't do any original programming. So what's special about nos is that, like, here's an original series, we have another series that they want to do, which I really love this other series reality series, whereas the other ones didn't. And I did one, I hosted a marathon for them. Last year, a patty Duke show was on Patty Duke show. She was a friend of mine wrote the foreword. Well, you were to look forward to surviving Susie. Sure,

Jeff Dwoskin 50:31

sure. Yeah. You played her friend on that show. Right? Right. Yeah, you've done so much. It's so crazy way to tie in a we scratched a bunch of stuff. But there's so much Kathy Garver. That's why everyone should get her book surviving sissy, my family fare of life in Hollywood. I'll put there's a bunch of other books to family fare cookbook scrapbook. Where we got holiday recipes for a family affair. There's I feel like I missed one the family child stars, which I love that book. That looks great. I need to kind of dive into the where then our what happened to pretty much everyone. That's great. So I love all your projects. Everything you do. I'll put links to all of it so much, Kathy Garver awaits everyone. I'm so excited. Kathy, thank you so much for hanging out with the website and where your socials are. So

Kathy Garver 51:21

people can go to my website, which is Kathy garber.com, very inventive. KTHYG AR ve r.com. And then my IG my Instagram is at kg CC, and Facebook is Kathy Garver are very inventive. There's the Kathy Garber personal page, and then the Kathy Garver fan page. And then I also have a Cathy carbon group. So I don't do tick tock because Chinese will steal all my stuff. So enjoy your tech talk. But I do think oh, yeah, and if you go to, if you go to you make me laugh. If you go to my website, you can see my newsletter. And then that shows where I'm going to be all the time at Comic Cons coming up and different appearances and all that.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:06

I have to get to the Motor City. ComiCon Yes. You know, I

Kathy Garver 52:09

did that maybe 10 years ago. I'd love to do that again.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:13

Yes, yeah. Route together.

Kathy Garver 52:18

Just sit down and I'll give you 10% set me up.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:23

Patrick. Perfect. Thank you so much. This was so fun. Thank you.

Kathy Garver 52:27

Thank you tip.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:28

All right. How amazing was Kathy Garver? I had so much fun talking with her diving into family affair. 10 commandments Firestar you gotta check out our book, Surviving sissy, my family affair of life and Hollywood so many stories. You're gonna love it. You will love it. I promise. There's a link in the show notes so you can hop on over and get that tons of great Kathy Garver family affair stuff away too on her website, check it out. You will not regret it. Also, don't forget to listen to Lamb The Orphan reindeer make that a priority. Also in the show notes well, with the interview over that can only mean one thing. The episode has come to an end. I can't believe it either. Episode 235 is over. One more huge thank you to my guest, Kathy Garver. And of course, huge thank you to all of you for coming back week after week. I can't thank you enough. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

CTS Announcer 53:33

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Classic conversations. If you liked what you heard, don't be shy and give us a follow on your favorite podcast app. But also, why not go ahead and tell all your friends about the show? You strike us as the kind of person that people listen to. Thanks in advance for spreading the word and we'll catch you next time on classic conversations.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai