#208 Laurie Jacobson’s Beatles Journey: Discovering the Magic Behind Shea Stadium 1965

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:28

All right, Cindy, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. And you get the show going each and every week and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 208 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. You're in for a classic nave fab conversation today with author Laurie Jacobson. Laurie is a Hollywood historian and author of top of the mountain the Beatles at Shea Stadium in 1965. Laurie is a Beatle maniac and we're diving into the Beatles in just a few seconds. In these few seconds. I just want to remind everyone of the awesomeness found in Episode 206 with Atari 2600 game designing legend Howard Scott Warshaw, he developed Yars Revenge Raiders the Lost Ark EA T. Yes, et the one that was buried in the desert amazingly fun nostalgic interview. You know what else is amazingly fun episode 182 with John Provost who happens to be Laurie Jacobson's husband. That's right, John Provos from Episode 182. Timmy from Lassie, Laurie and John wrote John's memoir, Tim is in the well, the John Provo story. So this is actually the second deep dive into one of Laurie Jacobson's books. Today we take the long and winding road to top of the mountain, the Beatles at Shea Stadium. 1965. If you're ready to get back and dive into the Fab Four, you're in for a treat. Enjoy. Oh, all right, everyone, I'm excited to introduce you to my next guest, author, writer, producer. Reform stand up comic. We'll have to dive into that in a second. But right now, my guest Laurie Jacobson on the show author of Timmies in the wild the John Provo story, which you may recognize from Episode 182 my interview with John Provost, we went deep into that book but also dishing Hollywood, Hollywood haunted TV dinners, Hollywood heartbreak and the focus of this episode. We're going Beatles This is a fab fab episode top of the mountain, the Beatles at Shea Stadium. 1965. Welcome to the show. Lori Jacobson screaming, yeah, well inserted screams that'll make people's ears bleed in full Beatle fashion

Laurie Jacobson 2:50

is exactly what happened at Shea. So

Jeff Dwoskin 2:53

my dad, I believe, saw the Beatles in Cleveland, he would always tell me about seeing in Cleveland, I didn't get much more than that. I wish I had more. You can't write a book around that. I I could try. You could try but it was just that's that's all the details I have for you. I mentioned in the introduction Timmies in the wild, the John Provost story which you wrote with your husband, John provost. So I was thinking about this as I was getting ready to talk to you. I was like, oh, of all the books I've read. I've read more books by you than anyone else. Well, God bless you putting you in my as my top author. You just you push Seuss right out right off the shelf. Now you're not my number one author. So I'm excited to talk to you Hollywood historian is is what they call you. How did you become obsessed and kind of focused in this this direction?

Laurie Jacobson 3:40

I grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, long before cable television where when all your shows went off the air, there was the late show. And then there was the Late Late Show. And they showed all what are now classic films where I learned to love Tracy and Hepburn and Harlow and Cagney and Bogey, and that whole crew and my parents, I have to say, especially my mom, we're big movie fan. So movies were always a big deal in our house. And we often went to the movies as a family to see Audrey Hepburn and people that we actually could have in common. So I loved that I wanted to be an actress. I moved to LA in 1974. And there were still people there from the 40s. I mean, you know, you could literally run into Betty Davis at the liquor store. You know, you'd go to like Schwab's drugstore and people had worked there for 35 years. And so you would sit down and the waitress would come over and say you're sitting in Clark gables favorite booth. No kidding. How do you know that as I waited on him here every Wednesday I've mentioned wood Tell me an amazing story about Clark Gable that nobody else knows. And the maitre D's in the bartenders and the sort of pops characters that were guards at the gates of the studios may knew these people, they knew everything. And that is why they held their jobs for so long. They didn't dish the dirt, but they had a million stories. And when I moved there, and most of those people were gone. They were willing to part with some of those stories. And I would go back to my actor, friends and my comedian, friends and repeat these stories. And everybody was on the edge of their seats. No kidding, that really happened. And so I just began collecting that until finally I smoked a joint with a friend one night we were swapping these stories and he said, you need like a crew of handsome young boys selling Maps to the Stars with this information on it. And that's how it began. And I had too much information for a little tiny spot on the Maps to the Stars, homes. Did you ever see that ready? Were you in LA in time to catch those people Hawking those on every other corner?

Jeff Dwoskin 6:14

I haven't seen him firsthand, but I know exactly what you're talking about.

Laurie Jacobson 6:17

Oh my god, that was so long ago. Now that I forgot. You may not have seen it. But so that is how my first book was born. And I was early on the scene of this Unsolved Mysteries, murders, suicides. I mean, you know, there was a lot of happiness, but there was a lot of tragedy and Hollywood is well, and it was you couldn't make the stuff up any better than it happened in real life. And so a Hollywood historian was born.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:48

That's amazing. We're gonna I'm gonna have you back and we're gonna dive into all those as I kind of dove into top of the mountain, I realized I've got more notes than I've ever had. And we're in technically we already have a one Laurie Jacobson, deep dive because I did a whole episode with John Provost on your other book. So this would be like my second. So this is like pretty soon the I'll have hopefully a whole catalogue of episodes. People can go like, Oh, you should listen to the Laura Jacobson episodes. They're all fascinating. So I so you did improv with Robin Williams and John Laura cat. And John Ritter.

Laurie Jacobson 7:23

We were all in Harvey LEM Beck's comedy workshop, and Harvey was a regular on Sergeant Bilko with Phil Silvers and he played Erich von zipper in all of the net and Frankie beach movies grew up with Phil Foster and Gary Marshall, Buddy Hackett and those guys in Brooklyn, and those people were always dropping into class Jack Lemmon, Joey Bishop, Peter noone. You would turn around to see who was auditing class that day and it was just always an amazing experience.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:01

What led you to focus a book on The Beatles

Laurie Jacobson 8:04

I was always a Beatle maniac. I never dreamed you know, there's there must be 1000 books on the Beatles and I never dreamed I would be able to add anything to the wealth of knowledge already out there. But a gentleman that is a friend of mine was extremely close friends with Sid Bernstein, who was the promoter of the Shea Stadium concert. And Sid lived to be 95 years old. He passed away some years ago but he had shared the entire story in great detail of how the concert came to be which was an amazing story just all by itself. And so my friend shared this story with me and I thought wow, you know this is this is great. And now let's add the Beatles to the mix and and then I started finding out all these amazing people attended the concert as kids you know Meryl Streep was there she was 16 Whoopi Goldberg was there she was nine Steve Van Zandt 14. The rascals the run ads, Mick and Keith Jeffrey Katzenberg was 15. He was SIDS in turn that day. And this is just a partial list of the people that were there. So then I just got crazy, crazy story. I began contacting people that were in the opening acts that evening and on tour with The Beatles after that, you know, one lady said, Oh, well, my dad came with me that night and he took 80 color slides. And you know, we've watched him once and they've been in a drawer ever since. Would you like them? So this amazing cache of photos began opening up to me so I thought, hey, I really got something here. That's the story of How it came to be.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:01

That's amazing. So I will say I my fandom on any level is I consider myself like, Oh, my guy who really really likes something and some rank higher than others, the Beatles would rank higher than others. I love the monkeys love the Star Wars, you know, like Star Trek is is good, you know, there's different levels. But I understand to that I'm not necessarily like one of the over the over top type folks that under you know, but the Beatles I've read lots of books. I remember doing reports on Paul McCartney in school and seen Paul a few times in concert. And, and I've read books, because the Beatles is always fascinating. It's a fascinating story. You know, I've watched the documentary I own that whatever that 100 Odd with someone they did a few like many years ago, just after John died. Oh, the anthology and Valjoux Thank you very much. Yeah, you know, I have that DVD, which is unwatchable because I don't own a DVD player anymore, and not unwatchable. Because it's a treasure trove. I literally can't watch it. When I read your book. I was fascinated because I was reading stuff that I never and points of view of things that I had never read before or heard before or knew. And I consider myself someone who I collect trivia in the back of my head, and there was just a treasure. That's why like, I took so many notes. I was like, Oh, my goodness, this is piecing together a lot of disparate events that were in my head, like the Ed Sullivan thing, and how that kind of tied in to everything and all that kind of good stuff. So I loved all of it. And that caused me to dive in so much so that the photos Yes, amazing photos, and so clear these photos, like unbelievable quality photos. And I just I want I did want to impress you that I know that on the cover. It's them playing I'm down.

Laurie Jacobson 11:38

All right, bravo. Thank you, though. Thank you, Jeff. Because that is truly my the biggest compliment I can receive. I've done a lot of Beatle podcasts, and you know, those people they talk Beatles 24/7. And when they say to me, I didn't know that. That's the biggest compliment I can get. I love hearing that. So thank you.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:02

You're welcome. Oh, thank you for writing the book. So Sid Bernstein, I had never heard of z. It was an interesting part of the story to kind of understand how the guy said Bernstein, who created this brought them to Carnegie Hall basically discovered the Beatles but allowed or handed over that spotlight to Ed Sullivan allowed Ed Sullivan to kind of if you had asked me I was like I'd solvent probably discovered the Beatles, they were on that show. That's what everyone always talks about is the thing that blew up the world, right. But this story kind of fills in some very important pieces to the story. I was fascinated by the fact that I didn't realize how much disdain there was for the Beatles, like in the beginning. Oh, ah, like that was fascinating to me, and just how Sid was the only one in America that really believed in them. And in the UK, Brian Epstein was the only one who believed in them. And then serendipitously, they were able to connect and launch the magic. Sorry to interrupt, have take a quick break, I want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors, you're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my fab conversation with Laurie Jacobson, Laura, he's gonna take us through the story of how said and Brian made magic together, and we're back.

Laurie Jacobson 13:24

And literally, it's such a simple story that it could never happen that way. Again, that was another part that I really love. Because today with social media, a discovery that these gentlemen made, it could never happen that that way, again, somebody dropping by and mentioning this or seeing an article in the paper launching this career. It's just awesome.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:49

Just the whole foresight. Like how would you describe what it is that said, and Brian saw in the Beatles that no one else saw?

Laurie Jacobson 13:57

Well, for Brian, who had a record department in his furniture store, a couple of people dropped in and asked for their record. Hmm. You know, so he thought, Oh, they're playing literally down the street at the camera, and I'll go check them out a lunchtime concert. So he saw them in their, on their own turf with a an audience that adored them and said in America was reading British newspapers and following little blurbs about the Beatles performances and the word pandemonium attached to each write up. So they each saw the reaction from the crowd that they were getting, which always helps, you know, if they had walked into an office and played a song, I don't know if they would have realized what they were seeing. But you know, seeing the reaction that they got from kids was a big factor in recognizing how popular they would be and And Brian took it two steps further, you know, let's get you out of these leather jackets and put you in the little matching suits. And let's do a bow at the end. And you know, he added polish and professionalism. But they had already gotten their experience they had, you know, they'd been playing in Germany, five shows a day, sometimes they had already played hundreds of concerts by the time Brian Epstein saw them. So they hadn't there was one guy that I interviewed. His name is Dave glide. I can't wait to meet him. He lives in Australia, but he's due to come over here. One day soon. He was in one of the opening acts sounds NK and they were playing sounds Inc was playing in Germany at the same time, the Beatles were and that is where they became friends. And they became very, very close friends, which is why sat and the Beatles hooked them up with Brian Epstein. And then they opened for The Beatles a lot. One of the big reasons was because they could keep secrets of what happened on the road stayed on the road. But Dave said when he first saw them in Germany, they saw that no stage presence, they just stood there, like, you know, wooden figures, you know, so clearly, they learned to react and go with a crowd and make a crowd of strangers fance a crowd that did not even speak English. So they had to pull it out of their hats and make a go of it. And they did. So by the time Brian Epstein saw them at the cavern in Liverpool. They they were really tight band that needed a little cleaning up physically.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:46

So he saw the diamond in the rough basically, absolutely. Got it. And then said just was the right person to call the right.

Laurie Jacobson 16:54

And then ship. This is what I love said, you know, try. He heard about Brian Epstein were in action had called dozens of people in America. He couldn't get anybody to react to them. He was so excited when someone from America called literally Brian's mom answered the phone and said and said Can Brian come out to play basically. And she said just a minute, I'll get him and a brilliant partnership was formed a wonderful friendship that evolved into a great professional relationship. It's incredible.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:29

Just the way the how serendipitous that was and just how everything that came after that. So Sid, plans Carnegie Hall, the Carnegie Hall concerts are the big ones that's important to the CHE story, because that's where he kind of got the idea to the CHE concert from the sell out of that. And then Ed Sullivan was just a few days before the Carnegie Hall.

Laurie Jacobson 17:50

Yes. So Ed Sullivan is happens to be passing through Heathrow Airport and sees a bunch of screaming girls, hundreds of screaming girls and the Beatles happened to be coming in on that day. So he's like, What the hell is this all about? Who are these guys and man, he hears that Sid has already made plans to bring them to New York for Carnegie Hall first rock'n'roll group ever to play Carnegie Hall because Carnegie Hall didn't know they were a rock and roll group or I think they would have said no, but So Ed Solomon new sin said book people on Ed's shelf so he called said and said, Do you mind if I put them on like three days before your concert said and said, Great, that guarantees me a sellout. And that's the way it happened. So it didn't look like and discovered them? And of course, he didn't mention said why would he? You know, here's the hottest act from England bump,

Jeff Dwoskin 18:47

right, which is probably says a lot about that sell them maybe

Laurie Jacobson 18:51

well, you know, on that subject, but later down the line, add che when with che in the works, Sid knew that American youngsters associated the Beatles with Ed Sullivan. So he rather than take the spotlight himself, he invited ed to introduce the Beatles at che and so Ed knows he's going to be there. And he goes, You know, I ought to film this side and make a documentary of this. And he goes directly to Brian Epstein with that idea. And both men left said out of that mix, which I really think is a terrible thing. First of all, there wouldn't have been a concert without sin. He should have been a producer. He didn't ask because Cid didn't make waves. And so the two men thought, why should we give some money away? We'll just make this little deal between ourselves. So I thought that really

Jeff Dwoskin 19:47

sounds like Sid was the match in the group. Yes, he was the match. And Ed Sullivan kinda took what he could get, but the Ed Sullivan appearance was incredible. 73 Only people watched right? This is February 9 1964. So this is about a year and a half before che ish, right? Roughly. Yes, this is the funny thing is my niece is applying. So there was 50,000 requests for tickets for the Ed Sullivan seats 728 seats in the Ed Sullivan Theater, the odds of getting into Ivy League college, we're better than seeing the Beatles on solvent. It's like the greatest comparison ever. The one thing that I found when I was reading your book, and then just kind of looking at some stuff as well. So I think you mentioned your book that the person who goes after the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan was a guy named Fred Kaps. So the Beatles do, it's a two part thing, right? They do. They're a couple songs, they take a break, this guy Fred Kaps comes up, it was a magician who has the misfortune of going after them, because who wants to see the people because after just on a whim, I Googled Fred Kaps because I was just curious. He was a Dutch magician. And actually, he was the only magician ever to become the FIA SM grant to win the FSM Grand Prix three times. That's the International Society of magic. So this is not just some wild Whopper magician. This was like a real top top drawer magician, Nick totally. And maybe any other day, we might be talking about the magic of Fred Kaps perhaps, but not because of the results of the of the times they were on solid quarter of a billion people watch them incredible. It's incredible. So which leads me to some of the quotes from your book that I wanted to ask you about, which I found was really interesting. So one of the things that you talk about in your book, this was like one of the light bulb things that went off where I was like, I've never heard this before. You were talking to Steve Boone from the loving spoonful. And he was saying that The Beatles were talented, but the shift was moving towards a band that did it all. And the Beatles got there first. And so that made me think of the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell, where he talks about this, he talks about this concept, but I never heard it like in terms of the Beatles, and outliers, talks about achievement as cultural phenomenon. And success is not found by exceptional people, but instead is a result of individuals making the most of a particular moment in time. In that book, he talks about Bill Gates and just Bill Gates, his happens to be at a place that he has access to computers, right. So like we're sometimes the moment can make the person you have to be there. And as you were kind of were saying earlier, the Beatles had put in, I don't know about 10,000 hours, but they were pushing towards that from what you said like in Germany and all that. So it was just really interesting to kind of think that it was a right place, right time type thing that kind of blew them up.

Laurie Jacobson 22:32

Yeah, I mean, opportunity, you can be lucky to have opportunity knock, but you might not necessarily be ready for it. They were completely ready for it. Oh, yeah. And that and that's the difference,

Jeff Dwoskin 22:45

right? You have to you have to be ready to take the mantle and when it's presented, but I've never seen it kind of the book presented in such a way which was I thought fascinating. So it was definitely in line with a lot of the great moments that go on and live in infamy that The Beatles were just ready the time was right to talk about 1965 Just being that you know, the JFK assassination and racial strife and all that kind of stuff. And just the world was ready and the Beatles stepped in and the world just kind of embrace them.

Laurie Jacobson 23:15

Yes, that's the difference. Obviously, you didn't grow up with the Beatles in you read a lot about them, but the experience of them changing things as I grew up changed me along with them as their style changed as their habits changed as their music change. They admitted they did drugs and then suddenly life magazine's cover was LSD the next you know, the effect that they had on my generation we didn't read about it we lived it and it really makes all the difference

Jeff Dwoskin 23:51

Oh, I can't imagine I'm I'm envious of the fact that have anyone got to live through that just experience it because it's I try to think of like what maybe what Yeah, I can have in comparison but I don't I don't know that there is anything big movie openings where it was wrapped around the thing but not have been but not not like this entire not that had a mania add to it. Yes. Mania. So yeah, you say in the in the book, it was like the world was like before the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. And after Ed Sullivan. I found that just so fascinating. And then the whole idea that with the Carnegie Hall that they sold out in 40 minutes in Carnegie Hall, and someone was like, Oh, you could have sold out a concert and then said it said it was just a brilliant guy and like he's like, oh, yeah, why don't we do that? Then book che which in itself is like a moment in time that you know, now we take stadium concerts are a thing you know, I mean, it's like but at that time, and this was this was a groundbreaking idea. This was something that had never been done before. Just incredible that they they pulled it off.

Laurie Jacobson 24:56

Brian's first reaction was absolutely Now, you know, 56,000 people, you know that the Beatles had may be played to 25,000 people tops and only a couple of times, as you said, there were a lot of negative responses to the Beatles. And they were people still weren't sure whether they weren't going to be able to sustain their popularity. And Brian thought, well, this will give those naysayers if we book che, and it's half filled, all the naysayers will come out and say, See, I told ya, you know, they're there. They're going nowhere. But down. He said, No, but Sid, made him an offer he couldn't refuse, which was I'm so convinced that I will fill every seat man stadium, I will pay you $10 For every empty seat that plus a couple of other stipulations of Brian's made him say, Okay, go for it.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:56

Yeah, that was incredible really ballsy of said to do but interestingly enough, the question I had for you, I wonder if he knew the answer. So the SID wasn't allowed to talk about the concert. But you talked about in the book, how He cleverly basically sold out the concert without even promoting the concert. That is my favorite part of the story. 55,600 tickets insane. So my question is, when the Grand Funk Railroad says we sold it out faster than the Beatles, how do they know because they don't really know how fast the Beatles sold it out, at least from what I can tell from what I was reading. It just it just kind of happened. It wasn't like, you know, just over time, and then they had to count them all. I mean, as well,

Laurie Jacobson 26:37

you know, because of said, Alright, so here's my favorite part of the story. So Brian says, I want a $100,000 guarantee since 1963. That's unheard of. And he wants half of it in three months. And until said gives him half of it. He can't advertise the concert. So Sid says How am I going to advertise if I mean, how am I going to raise that kind of money if I can't advertise? And Brian says, Well, I didn't say you couldn't talk about it. So now Sid, is in hot water at home. He's got a small baby. His wife is like you promised you'd pay him how much? Or how many empty seats? What have you done? We're ruined. I'm going home to mother it so now he's horribly depressed, doesn't know what he's going to do? How am I going to raise 50 grand and he walks his son every day in Washington Square Park, and the kids knew him ever since he brought the Beatles to Carnegie Hall. Then other bands started calling Sid and he was literally the the conduit to the British invasion. So the kids knew said and they would gather around him when they saw him and what's new who's coming next. And so he thought, well, this is it. He told the kids I'm bringing the Beatles to che in August in eight months. And here's the Pol box and here's how much the tickets are gonna be and literally he did this every I mean people fainted Okay, when he said he's bringing the Beatles to shame so he literally did this every day for three weeks and then he finally worked up the nerve to go to the PIO box and see if he had any orders there at all. And they they came out from the back room at the post office to see Mr. Box 21 Who is this guy as they drag out bags and bags of mail and he brings it all home they're opening it and like yen falls out of one envelope rubles from another envelope money from another reference from my youth behind me Iron Curtain show at a time when there was only long distance and letters in three weeks this news went around the world Andy oversold the stadium and had to send 1000s back show there was no system for handling all this mail like there is now to say that you know another band Grand Funk sold that out next amount of time well heck there were ticket agencies and phone numbers to call and and a lot more modern convenience than the Beatles had they had a peel box

Jeff Dwoskin 29:21

so what I'm saying it's like it's a Yatta you even lay claim to that because I'll sit did was go hey Beatles are gonna come and no posters nothing

Laurie Jacobson 29:31

so I just loved that this network of teenagers carried the news around the world I mean today obviously with social media would be around the world in a minute and a minute right but that's what I loved. I do you know, they always show pictures of teenage girls on the phone with their feet up in the air and you know, hanging upside down and stuff. That's what a happy

Jeff Dwoskin 29:55

it's also incredible. This isn't converted to today's dollars but the tickets were all Looking for dollars 50 cents $5 $5.65 was the most expensive ticket to get you to the see the Beatles not to flash forward for a second. But like I was distraught to find out like said only made $3,000 on this entire thing which made the whole getting cut out of the filming of the Shea Stadium and all that kind of stuff. And you know, just not getting the full credit. Like even probably harder to swallow. Yes. So I so this is a they said rents the stadium. The other thing that kind of I was watching the documentary after reading the book because I wanted to get a feel for it too. And like that my first thought was, wow, if this was an indoor stadium, everyone would be deaf. Like that's what we would be talking about was the Beatles death and 55,000 people probably the only reason that anyone like did escape with their hearing was because it was an open air state. Like it had somewhere to go. And that's all. That's all. Like, oh my god, this would have been horrible. Sorry. That's

Laurie Jacobson 30:58

no, that's the first thing anyone I spoke to mentioned, the screaming, the screaming and the way the stadium is was designed was that all the sound from the audience focused right down onto the stage, like an amphitheater. And so yes, the people down below, we're definitely had hearing loss and damage bad.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:22

I can imagine. Oh, you know what I wanted. You mentioned something earlier, I had a note I wanted to dive into this was another one of those things where I was like, and this is I'm sure just my being naive, because like the whole, the Beatles were dirty dogs in a day. They were specific about it, but they were not a faithful crew. It seemed like they had their their women behind the scenes because none of them ended up with the people they were with at the time. John was with Cynthia Ringo. It was about who are married Maureen Cox. Yeah, they were married. They were married. And then Georgia, Patti. And Paul was with Jane Asher. And there's a none of them ended up and the other cool thing in the book which people at the concert and that was the future wives were there. Linda Eastman, Barbara Bach and future brother in law Joe Walsh, two star that just goes to show you ever like I remember like talking about growing up and someone's like good chance you've met or been in the same place as a person you're going to marry probably crossed paths. You just haven't. Anyways, I thought that was so they were fans of The Beatles before. Actually, Barbara rock wasn't right. It was her daughter's sister. That was

Laurie Jacobson 32:32

Yes. Her sister who ended up married date Joe Walsh, who was also there. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 32:36

yeah, of the Eagles, not that political guy. But everything was a story like a great part of the story. Like there wasn't anything like getting there. Forget the drama of them coming to New York for a second guy. I mean, that was crazy. And I loved all the cars and Brucey stuff. But like just even just getting them to the concert and getting them out of the concert. The fact that nobody died. You know what I mean? Like when you think of like, truly any one thing could have happened where there could have been like a stampede.

Laurie Jacobson 33:03

Absolutely. That was the biggest fear 10,000 people decided to rush the stage would have been nothing that they could have done. I mean, they had levels, different levels of security. But if you were facing a mob like that, the thing is nobody wanted to hurt the Beatles, like the Beatles were actually afraid to go out. And Mick Jagger was there with Alan Klein, who was a manager who was hoping to woo the Beatles away from Brian Epstein. So he brought his newest act with him making Keith and he brought his biggest singer Bobby Vinton with him and Bobby and Mick were walking through the stadium going down to where the Beatles were getting dressed. Bobby said, you know, these, like tough guys from Brooklyn saw mech and started hitting him and Mick started running and Bobby started running and then Bobby said well wait a minute, you're not hitting me so he slowed to a walk. And Mick just had you know so there was that reaction from some guys who you think you're so tough make Jagger Boone you know so the Beatles Miss omit those downstairs towels on my on a run for my life. Now they're afraid to go out. People were tired of the opening acts and kind of throwing bottles and stuff. And so with all the security that they have there that night, my favorite part of that is that two different photographers found their way into the bowels of the stadium. And one of them kept opening doors, trying doors that they were all locked and finally one opened and it's their dressing room and he walks in and starts taking photos of them. I mean, excuse me, yeah, Brian Epstein would have burst a blood vessel if he had known that it was really literal. Lay that easy. And the other guy who was only 17, and he was doing the same thing, trying all the doors and the one that opened for him was full of New York City cops. He fakes a British accent. He says he's a friend of George Harrison's and he's supposed to take photos that night, and he got separated from the group. Could you take me out on the stage? I'm into the on the field. And they lead him out to the field where he's standing between Brian Epstein and Ed Sullivan. And my think Murray the K. And nobody says, Hey, kid, what do you do on out here? He has a nice camera and they leave him alone, you know, and he takes 60 photos from the edge of the stage one of which is the cover of the book. So there were you know, if people had been industrious like these two guys, were you could have just walked right into something.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:56

Sorry to interrupt my conversation with Laura Jacobson have to take a quick break. And we're back with Lori Jacobson diving even deeper into how these photographers made it into Shea Stadium and eluded security. And we're back. That story is one of my favorite and the books where he's I think you also mentioned he's like wearing like this weird little jacket that says short though to smile from

Laurie Jacobson 36:19

he was 17. And he wore his bar mitzvah suit.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:23

Right? And the New York cops are just like, they don't know what a British person is. They're just like,

Laurie Jacobson 36:29

we knew so little about the English at that time. So they see this guy in pants that are three inches too short and guns. Yeah, he must be British. Sure. I'll take you out there.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:40

All right, they get the Beatles there. George project, I'm sure needed therapy between the plane that he hated and the claustrophobia and the in the Wells Fargo security van. Another really interesting tidbit was it didn't have a setlist that was I mean, that's crazy. They said they must have like done enough, though. They were just like, oh, we'll just you know this. This is what we'll do. I mean, I can imagine because it was a pretty from at least the documentary, it seemed like it went pretty smoothly. They went from one song to another, the filming of it. The disappointing thing about the filming of it, that part of the story, that thread is the sad thing, of course that we talked about, but also like they didn't use the original audio. It's not them actually singing that concert.

Laurie Jacobson 37:21

Yeah, I think, you know, people constantly ask, why doesn't Apple release the entire footage of the concert from all the opening acts and everything in the audio was terrible, you know, the screaming, first of all, and secondly, it was so simplistic. I like to say that technology woke up the next morning and said, This is the future and we're not ready. And they got ready real fast, because four years later was Woodstock. And they were ready. But you know, they had these puny little speakers to blast out the sound. And then they attached extra microphones to the microphones. They were singing in the Beatles couldn't even hear themselves. Ringo said he could tell what song they were playing by the way their butts moved back and forth. You know. So yeah, the producer of the documentary Ed Sullivan's son in law. Bob Precht wanted to go with the raw original sound. He thought it really captured the evening. But Brian said no way. And so they dumped some of it. And they used concert footage from the Hollywood Bowl. They didn't use the footage, they use the audio. And so mostly, it's completely dubbed

Jeff Dwoskin 38:37

with it then they didn't say that it was dubbed. I think that's a disappointment like they they kind of made it. They wanted you to think that was the cause. Yeah, they did. They did a good job job in it. I'll give them that because I knew it watching it. It was like I was I was like trying to they did a good job. I think if you didn't know,

Laurie Jacobson 38:55

that attests to how tight they were as a band, because dubbing is a real art. And they went into the studio having never dubbed anything, I don't know maybe they had to dub some lines in help or hard days night. But here they had to dub entire songs. But they were a tight than they knew how they sang it. It was easy. The crew was shocked at how easily they can sync up.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:19

The interesting thing is, and I know you live through it. So you know, but like by the time the documentary, which we didn't even cover was filmed by the people who later did the Godfather and all that kind of stuff was the documentary itself. By time it aired in the United States, the band had evolved so much. It was like radically it's I mean, we think about the Beatles, right? The Beatles were around for what about five ish years, and like that entire evolution of that band took place in that period of time. I mean, it's it's insane how the later albums, you know, aren't a decade later, they're years later, and then you know, then they ended but the by that I found that to be humorous as well.

Laurie Jacobson 39:58

Yeah, I mean, I you year and a half later there and Sergeant Pepper's, Their look is entirely different. Their music is so different. I don't even think they could have done some of that music live. And so by the time it came out, they didn't even look like that anymore. And those songs were then old by the time it came out on American television. So it was already nostalgia and a bombed people were like, what's this? You know?

Jeff Dwoskin 40:27

Well said probably was glad about that. Now, he probably he was probably too good of a guy don't believe in that. That glory of them. Yeah. So how would you how would you wrap up like the just the impact that Shay had, and still has to this day, and with the Beatles,

Laurie Jacobson 40:44

it was an enormous cultural turning point. I think, besides technology, doing a one at Madison Avenue realized, Whoa, these kids are buying more than pimple cream here. We got a whole new generation to cater to that was huge. And also the kids themselves 56,000 like minded people had never gathered in one place before. And some of the opening act said that to me that they were speechless to be on that stage in front of a crowd like that, that it was a turning point for them personally, and, and the crowd as well. One of my favorite moments of people going to che to fans that I spoke to were coming from Staten Island, they had to take the ferry to Manhattan, and then they had to get on a train to go to Queens, and it's Sunday, late afternoon. And when the train pulled into the station and opened, it was filled with 14 year old girls. Oh boy to see the Beatles. And che and nobody else was done there because everybody's home for dinner on Sunday night. Right? So I just thought what a cinematic moment that is and you know, you immediately you're in there in the subway with your people, you know that that heart that hadn't happened before for people. So it literally changed pop culture overnight. And of course, all we saw after that were stadium concerts, you know, with Nick elbowing said that night saying the Do you think we'll ever be able to play a stadium? God give it a couple of years, Nick, and maybe you might make it that's what said said Jen. So

Jeff Dwoskin 42:37

Oh, that's so funny. And then when they finally tore che down to be a parking lot, Billy Joel was the last concert. But it was Paul McCartney that closed out the final Shea concert. That was pretty cool. Yes. So it was interesting. I, you know, they played che again, right? A year later. Yeah, they came 11,000 seats short, which is funny to think like, oh, that's it's a failure to not sell me 45,000 tickets to a concert. It's kind of funny to put it in that context. But that I think in your book, you mentioned that George didn't even remember doing it a second time.

Laurie Jacobson 43:11

That's right. And so this moment in time was the Beatles. absolute peak of Beatlemania, because shortly after, you know, John, that was quoted out of context as saying, we're more popular than Jesus now. And boom, everything changed. And suddenly, people turned against them. Fans were burning albums, radio stations refuse to play them because of this remark. So they go to che the following year, and they can't sell it out. It's this incredible moment captured on film. You know, the people that I spoke to that were there, and they speak of it with such reverence. They remember every minut detail of it. I saw the Beatles in 66 in St. Louis, and can't remember what I wore, I can barely I just I remember just little tiny moments from it. But for the people that were at che it was a religious experience.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:13

I remember when I talked to John, I said, Hey, John, you saw the Beatles. He goes no actually saw him twice. I'm like, Whoa, rub that in my face. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, uh, you know, how you explained the title of your book comes from a quote from John Lennon. And it's just stunning when people are at the top of the mountain and he was like you said taking that comment out of context and just how quickly people will turn on you know, they are they everyone wants to build people up and then just tear them down. It's almost like it's a weird society thing. I looked up some 66 footage and there was a reporter talking to people in the audience trying to get them to say you're not us like you're not really still into the Beatles are yeah, as I was like, What are you doing? What makes it guy look so stupid, right? I'm sure even then he's like, here we are. 55 buses years later, and we're still talking about them, like they're just as important today and like their impact today and they've touched so many people and it's we're still there's still so much part of culture it's like it's it's so funny though look and think like how much Newsweek bash them and like I stopped

Laurie Jacobson 45:14

hanging You know, I think that you know, the Beatles were certainly knew they were popular, they're riding this wave, they have all these number one records, but I think that night was the moment they realized that they had the power to sway a generation of people, it's one thing to be aiming to be number one on Billboard's 100. But it was so big, what happened to them that night, and you can see it on their faces when they walk out onto the field. They're just completely blown out of the water. It was just, you know, I think it'd be you spoke to all four of them and ask what was your most memorable concert as The Beatles that's the one that's the one that changed it all for them.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:02

It is incredible and I and don't anyone that everyone listening don't take my that I was upset about the dubbing. It's a fascinating watch. Regardless, the gay there's, there's a couple of things you can find like on YouTube, there's like their concert. And then you can find the actual documentary somewhere as well, where it just, it's just amazing to watch that moment in time. So it is fascinating that they have it. But of course, don't do that without buying Laurie Jacobson's book, top of the mountain, the Beatles at Shea Stadium 1965, because I gotta tell you, the combination of the two, I was in heaven, I really was it was like, because I read your book. And then I watched that, and they had so much context that I never would have, like really had and it was great. It was just it was great to in my own way. Live it for a moment through a year. Wow. So thank you.

Laurie Jacobson 46:50

Thank you. And you know, I'm just gonna say there's so much more to the book, you know, we follow the Beatles from the time Sid discovers them all the way to the concert and a little bit after in the aftermath, and how they changed from the innocent young lads in 63. That they were to, you know, they got dose unbeknownst to them. They were dosed with LSD, John and George and their wives and that opened incredible new doors for them. And oh, my God, yes. They found out they were playing desegregated audiences in the south and they refuse to go on, you know, Vietnam was heating up and, and the shade jackets were kind of a military style. And John was beginning to get his political chops in order and he was like, I don't want to wear this coat, but he had to wear it because the others do. So the break is starting to happen. I don't love being I love playing music with my friends. But I don't love being a Beatle. There's this whole undercurrent of what's happening to them, which was also so fascinating.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:58

Oh, yeah, Beatle fans. We just scraped the surface in this interview. I would have had to keep Laurie for another couple hours. But her husband stuck in a well. The the but yeah, oh, this is for B if you want to dive into history, if you're a Beatles fan, this book is for you. There is so much so much. There's I had like 18 pages and I don't even think I covered half of that. In this conversation. There's it's so rich, it's exactly what you would hope. Thank you so much. Laurie, tell people where they can find you online and all that goodness. Oh, hey,

Laurie Jacobson 48:35

and all the usual places, Lorie jacobson.com, and Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. Although not sure if I'm going to stay on Twitter. But right now I'm still on Twitter. The book is available on Amazon and anywhere that books are sold. Awesome. If you want a signed copy, write me at Laurie jacobson.com or on Facebook and I can make that happen for you.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:05

That sounds like an amazing birthday Bar Mitzvah or Bat Mitzvah or wedding or Christmas gift. So awesome. All right. Well, thank you very much for spending all this time with me. I look forward to having you back because I want to dive into some of your other books and dive more into your Hollywood knowledge. But this was amazing. This concludes my second Laurie Jacobson episode. And thank

Laurie Jacobson 49:30

you for all the research that you did for this interview. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. It just enhances the experience. So Thanks, Jeff.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:42

My pleasure. All right. That was Laurie Jacobson. It was so fun exploring the passion and magic behind the Beatles performance at Shea Stadium in 1965. With Laurie if you love the Beatles, you have to get Lori's book top of the mountain the Beatles at Shea Stadium 1965 I have links are in the show notes. It's an amazing, amazing book. Well, with the interview over, I can only mean one thing. Oh my goodness, Episode 208 has come to an end. I can't believe it. It just flew by. And I didn't even get to do my Ed Sullivan impression. Probably good thing. One more huge thank you to my special guests, Laurie Jacobson. And of course a big thank you to all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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