#188 Walking the Red Carpet with Melissa Rivers

CTS Announcer 0:01

If you're a pop culture junkie, who loves TV, film, music, comedy and other really important stuff, then you've come to the right place. Get ready and settle in for classic conversation, the best pop culture interviews in the world. God's right, we circled the globe so you don't have to. If you're ready to be the king of the water cooler, then you're ready for classic conversations with your host, Jeff Dwoskin.

Jeff Dwoskin 0:30

All right, Margie, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You got the show going each and every weekend. This week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 188 of classic conversations. As always, I'm your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Gray Javea back for what's sure to be a classic red carpet edition of the podcast. I have none other than Melissa Rivers with me. That's right. No one knows red carpet better than Melissa Rivers. We're talking red carpet. We're talking all about her podcast group text. And of course her latest book lies my mother told me tall tales from a short woman. Melissa's got tons of great Joan Rivers stories, just tons of great stories and that's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds quick reminder episode 186 With Hank Garrett, it doesn't get classic her than that episode Hank Garrett star of a classic sitcom car 54 Where are you anxious? There's so many great stories that is a do not miss interview. And of course the bonus crossing the streams episode last Thursday. You need TV binge watching suggestions. I got you covered. All right. Well, without further ado, let's dive into all these amazing stories with Melissa Rivers. Enjoy. All right everyone excited to introduce you to my next guest New York Times best selling author award winning producer podcaster made the red carpet on thing with our mom Joan Rivers. You know her from Fashion Police Celebrity Apprentice Joan and Melissa Joan knows best. Her new book is lies. My mother told me tall tales from a short woman a work of fiction.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:17

Welcome to the show, Melissa Rivers.

Melissa Rivers 2:23

goes wild

Jeff Dwoskin 2:24

crowd goes wild. I love talking to folks who are also podcasters because you got it you got Yeah, yeah,

Melissa Rivers 2:31

I totally get it.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:32

It totally got so I've so I have so many notes to talk about. I do want to say one thing is Joan Rivers, your mom I have I found this cassette that I have. Oh my god. That's amazing. And I was introduced to your mom from my mom. And so when I grew up, the comedian's that I listened to were the ones that were my mom's favorite. And Joan Rivers was one of her favorites. And one of the things I distinctly remember was how fascinating she was with her and Howard Stern together like they'd be on TV. This is when Howard Stern was that Howard Stern way back decades old, Howard Stern, when people didn't know what was going on. But she loved him. And I think it was because Joan loved him that she loved him. And then that's how I kind of fell in love with your mom's comedy. So I found this cassette, which I've have, it's in my box, a comedy I do stand up comedy, and I have like these mementos from the years and this is one of those things that I kind of just keep, that's

Melissa Rivers 3:21

a relic hold on that that could be worth like $1 or two on eBay, if you ever get desperate

Jeff Dwoskin 3:26

it is I gotta say, I assume that your question might be is Had you listened to it, which obviously I couldn't. Because I don't even know the last time I saw a cassette player, but I pulled it up on Spotify. And oh, my God, it is just as funny listening to this today, as it was way back when it was originally recorded. Timeless timeline was so amazing. I enjoyed your book, thank you. Why is my mother told me tall tales from a short woman, a work of fiction, this was your COVID project.

Melissa Rivers 3:54

This was my COVID project, you know, COVID hit, we're all doing a million things. And everything comes to a complete and total standstill. And everyone had been asking me from the election on what would my mother be saying, and my writing partner and I were like nothing here. Maybe we can even do something, you know, make it pointed and sharp and poignant, and use my mother's voice to do so. So we started writing was going to essentially be an article or an op ed. And it was funny. And we thought, oh, there's something here. So then we started to write, I'd be fun to write my mother's version of the history of the world. That would be hilarious. And we were writing and writing and we ended up you know, we got through the French Revolution, which is actually part of what's in the book. And we ended up with Napoleon on Elba. We're trying to write a whole thing about there not being a Starbucks, and we got completely stuck. And then we started to look back and we're like, these are all lies. And then we started thinking what it just kind of happened through that like lies my mother told me and we just sort of opened up the narratives so to speak, I'm still determined to write the history of the world, according to Joe. But until I figured out how to get a missing Starbucks on Alibaba, I'm having writer's block. But that's how it happened.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:09

That's amazing. That's sometimes how the best things happen though, right? They're just kind of they accidentally evolve, and then you're, you can pick it out, you recognize that it's happening at that moment. And then the guy that, hey, this can be something this can be, we can go somewhere with this.

Melissa Rivers 5:24

The worst part was, we both ended up with writer's block, but not at the same time. And that was just, we were both miserable. And so we ended up turning it in late, because we couldn't, you know, he had really bad writer's block. And then I had really bad writer's block. So we were planning and then, and then obviously, we got through and got the final product. But man, everyone's like, was it hard? I'm like, Yeah, because there was nothing you could do. Because we were all in quarantine to, like, clear your head or do this or do that or walk away, we could walk away from it. But not I couldn't go and do another project or work or do something to help get me out of it. And since I think best in the shower, one of those people. I mean, my water bill was absurd. I just kept standing in the shower, thinking, okay, something's gonna come to me.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:11

I'm a treadmill or Walker guy. Yeah, they pop pops in my head during that. Was it cathartic to to put down words in your in your mom's voice?

Melissa Rivers 6:19

No, it wasn't sardick. But it was really fun. And my body partner, I talked about this all the time. It saved us during COVID. Because we would have these scheduled sessions. And we knew for those blocks of hours each week, we were going to laugh, and it really saved us.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:38

I can imagine. Yeah, during during COVID. It kept us laughing. A lot of fun, right? So laugh and then pull together all the thoughts and stuff to how your mind would react to some of these, oh, it'd

Melissa Rivers 6:49

be texting back and forth with like, one line and see if we could go from there. Like, what if? What if she was at Alcatraz? Like, you know, that kind of thing? You know? And then like, Can we do the art? Can we somehow connect Alcatraz with the Titanic? I mean, we just kept going back and forth like these germs of ideas.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:08

So far, I assume like there's elements of truth, right? And then you kind of define truth. Well, maybe like, I remember once I wrote a routine about my wife had giving birth. That part was true. And some of the ancillary things were true. But then you create I created an entire fiction around, right.

Melissa Rivers 7:25

So for example, my we did have Thanksgiving. And my mother did actually know the story of thanksgiving. You know, my mother loved going to theater. No, she did not meet the Pope there, you know. So the jumping off points are true. You know, my mother did take Cooper every year on a trip and a traditional trip that they call grandma weak, and they would go to these amazing places. And they did go to Italy, and they didn't see the Vatican. However, they did not get into an altercation in the gift shop.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:53

But these are things that you could have probably seen those things happening. And so yeah, it was fun to like, play it out.

Melissa Rivers 8:00

If you look at the dedication, it makes it all make sense. Just for Cooper, I'm sorry. apologize up front, this poor child is just like, oh, man, I hope and sanity skips two generations, not just one.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:14

I was as I was reading some of these things, some of the chat as I was reading some of the chapters, white lives matter triggers things in your own life. And that chapter is about lying to people, white lies and making people feel better through like white lies. And there was something my grandma always had taught us. My grandma taught us if you see a baby like an ugly baby, not all babies are cute or pretty. Exactly.

Melissa Rivers 8:35

I mean, I've seen some really ugly babies. Exactly. Some

Jeff Dwoskin 8:39

have to grow into it. The phrase she would always say is like, what a face. That's the one that we kind of took with us. I mean, there's some elements I'm assuming are based, like you grew up around a lot of famous people,

Melissa Rivers 8:50

um, not as many famous people, as most people would assume. My parents were very traditional, in the sense of my friends until the day my mother died, either called her Mrs. R or Mrs. Rosenberg, and her phone at her home was answered until the day she died was a bird resident. So their friends ran the gamut, whether it be doctors or lawyers, or writers or entertainers. So it wasn't all famous people. It was people from all walks of life. And their whole thing was if someone is smart and funny, we're interested in being with them.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:29

Got it was the secretary and rice stuff at all real was there? Oh, no,

Melissa Rivers 9:33

I wait. Because my mom worked so much in Vegas. Yes, I met Z creed and Roy, you had had lunch at their house. My parents were always terrified that some big cat walking around would think I was a snack. My parents are always terrified.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:46

Given how that story played out, it's probably not a horrible thing to have been worried about. I'm just trying to look at some of the chapters or is there like a particular one in the book that's your favorite that you wrote. You're like Ah, this is this one I just I really, really love. Well, the

Melissa Rivers 10:03

first one that I wrote, which kind of was the jumping off point was the one about the Big Bang, and shoddy construction and, you know, doing things without a permit. That's the one that started the ball rolling. And I wrote it and I sent to my partner, I was like, Do you think this is funny? And he's like, Oh, yeah. And then that that one really started us down this path. I love that one. I love why I'm an only child. I love the fact that we have a running gag about that I have a brother who's brilliant that I've never met. You know, that's a runner through the whole book, Melvin, you know, there are certain elements that I think are really funny, because they're so inside. I love this story about Margie. And so but by the way, and of course, my mother's literally, that's probably the one most based in the truth. If I heard one more time, don't tell anybody. Okay. I told Mommy, why do you tell Margie? It is Martina that she's going to tell there was a party is not going to tell anyone. She hasn't run in the same circles as you. What is he going to tell you? She's going to tell someone in LA mom, I asked you not to tell? I didn't? Yes, you did. Well, I only told March. I mean, that is that conversation is very close to verbatim.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:14

It's a funny conversation. Some of these you can see like where possibly there was some heavier truth and some of the other ones.

Melissa Rivers 11:21

And Margie, by the way is in all my books. She was my mom's best friend and they were hilarious together.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:29

That's awesome. The Anne Frank stuff it was your mom really fascinated with and Frank, I've been there. I've been to the house. So I was like, when I was reading it. I was like, Oh, I've never talked to anyone else who's been there. Both of

Melissa Rivers 11:39

my parents and semi are avid readers. And we all read mostly nonfiction. And we were all fascinated. I was a history major. It's something we all loved and would share books and especially my mom and I because my dad passed when I was so young. So in the sense of that there's it's not that you'd love right and Frank is she loved history. Got it. Okay, shared books on history and serial killers. We never met any kind of murder and mayhem show book that we didn't love. I mean, both of us always have, you know, Forensic Files on in the background.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:14

It's amazing how that can just suck you oh my god,

Melissa Rivers 12:17

I literally cannot wait to watch the Jeffrey Dahmer thing on Netflix. Like I'm saving it. Like I can't wait like I'm gonna put it on like tonight. I'm gonna watch like, you know, I'm planning a whole evening around it. And I hear it's great. I heard the same thing.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:30

It kind of weirds me out. My wife loves that stuff as I was like that potato eating people kinda.

Melissa Rivers 12:36

But my mother and I were also huge Law and Order fanatics. Huge. I can safely say that we have seen her I have seen and she too, had seen every single episode of the original series.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:51

That's impressive. Yeah, that's one of those shows like now with binging. It's hard to catch up on certain shows, because there's a Oh, you guys who watch on order. There's 7000 episodes.

Melissa Rivers 13:01

I've seen all of them. And now it's so exciting for me as I have a friend on the new one. Camryn Manheim. So I get like a double whammy. I get law and order and I get to watch a friend. So it's super fun for me to be able to get a law and order and Camryn Manheim and watch a friend.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:15

I have a camera in Mannheim. I can't see it. But like right next to you can kind of see it like all right. It's hard. So I have an eight by 10 autograph of her. She was friends with my cousin Roberta Levine. Nice in New York. So she got me her autograph. I love her. She's awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Legal. Right. Yeah. Back in the day. No, the practice the practice. I can't remember which one the practice one of those. But she was awesome. Yeah. When I happen to have a friend on a show. It's always fun. Always makes it more interesting makes it more interesting. Oh, I think that's one moment where I mean, there's a lot of times, right? I laugh because I think you're very funny writer. It's it's the book reads so funny. But there was one line. Oh, what about Billie Jean King and her husband, Larry. I think I almost lost it. I haven't caught me off guard. I just I read that. And I'm just certain things you read at the right moment. And just like boom, yeah.

Melissa Rivers 14:03

It's one of those things that you that you read. They give you reading fast. And you go wait a minute, you have to go back. Yeah, little easter eggs.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:12

Sorry to interrupt. But I want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at glass conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my amazing conversation with Melissa Rivers. Is it funny, like when people read this and it feels like oh, this could have actually happened? This could have been something Joan Rivers actually,

Melissa Rivers 14:34

a lot of people say to me, is it a memoir? And I'm like, no, look at the cover. No, it is not a memoir. And if this were the truth, I'd be crazier than I am.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:47

I don't know it's a compliment. No.

Melissa Rivers 14:50

I never expected anyone to actually read it. And I was so clear. I made sure the publisher made it so clear on the cover that was fiction. So everyone keeps saying that I've made it made a new genre, which is fake fiction? Or is it that you can't really call fiction?

Jeff Dwoskin 15:12

Well, it would have been hard for anyone else to pull it off for genre other than you. I mean, you have so many years firsthand. So it was like, if someone else has just been an avid fan and dining, like a fan fiction thing, but yeah, I mean, you're I was reading some of this and I had to remind myself this didn't really happen. But that's a credit to you and your writing partner. It's it's just it's so fun. And it's it's nice to kind of feel that that tone again, and read it or third book together. Oh, I saw your Joan was a minister in the Universal Life Church. So am I so you can marry people? I can marry people. I married one person. I did marry one. My mother

Melissa Rivers 15:47

married a number of gay couples. And she did it right when gay marriage became legal so that she could marry some of her friends.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:53

That's really really awesome. All right, so that's an awesome book that everyone should get. So I was diving in and kind of looking at stuff it was interesting. I read a find some facts about most rivers. Your First Movie was rabbit test, a cameo cameo. But you know, it was you know who else up here in rabbit test had a debut? Yes, I

Melissa Rivers 16:13

do know, because my mother wrote it and directed it.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:16

I know. I figure I know. But it's just I didn't know this. I didn't go to Crystal because he but then Michael Keaton, us. Yeah, that's, that was new for me. And then so that was the start of did you want to be an actress at some point? I know you're on like now to know. And you did a bunch of stuff. That one of the paths you want it to

Melissa Rivers 16:32

be? Absolutely. I mean, who doesn't want to, you know, be up there accepting an Academy Award. And I trained with Sandy Meisner, and I was working and did some off Broadway and this and that. And then certain opportunities came my way. I took them. And at the same time, I was already starting to produce a nice had a job, I had my first real paid job that was like an internship with as a research assistant on a show called rescue 911, which was sort of the first reenactment show. And I've learned I started out interning, like at CBS News and getting some little jobs there. And I loved the news. I could have stayed news my entire career, then these other opportunities start coming up and you say, I think I want to try this or you know, I need a job. I'm gonna take this. And it just my mom was always like my dad to walk through any door that opens in our business. You don't get to be so picky. That's great advice. Yeah, I mean, certain people get to be picky, but it's a very small group. And Michael Caine put it best, which is an actor acts like you want to be a working actor. And that's why people have these huge careers and very few people get to pick and choose.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:43

I did have a no that yeah, rescue 911 and a college internship at Entertainment Tonight.

Melissa Rivers 17:48

Yes, I worked at Entertainment Tonight. Back in the day.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:51

That was my favorite show. Like I lived for entertainment. I'm sure I'm a big fan of your work.

Melissa Rivers 17:57

I was an intern. I was logging tapes wasn't doing anything. Ever like killer?

Jeff Dwoskin 18:03

Well, they've had you had I would have been I would have been right there for

Melissa Rivers 18:06

Yeah, you know. And every time I do think that Entertainment Tonight, they always are like we had you first I'm like, Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 18:12

you did? That's right, right. Yeah. They didn't do the potential earlier. No, they did not for red carpet glory.

Melissa Rivers 18:20

I was one of many interns.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:22

So one story that I found that could have been in your new book, I think this one's true. Is your mother wanted you to be in Playboy is

Melissa Rivers 18:30

it's a story that's taken off a life of its own. I had done a show and there was some interest or a significant amount of money and me doing something in the magazine, and the stories somehow has taken on a life of its own, there is a germ of truth there was I was approached and I did say, I know, I already had my son, like I don't need his friends to be able to, you know, look up on the internet and be like, Dude, we saw your mom's tits. Like, that's just not wrong. Right? You know,

Jeff Dwoskin 19:00

I'm so glad that you said that. Because that's what we always say when like, we see stuff. It's like, they have kids, or like, they'll write things and this stuff lives forever now, and it's like,

Melissa Rivers 19:09

it's certain people, it's fine. And it's part of their image and this and that and the other, but it was not my image. It was not something that is part of my quote unquote, brand. And that was before we even use those words. And you know, it just wasn't for me, you know, and but my mom's like, you're gonna regret it one day, and I'm like, I kind of do regret it now. Because it was at a point in my life where I was like, I was looking good. Oh, it's like, dammit, she was right. I would have those pictures. But on the other hand, my you know, My poor son is embarrassed enough by his lady.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:46

That's so funny. I didn't take it like she really really probably wanted you to know she did. Okay, I that because I know I saw later when I was looking up clips on for Joan and Melissa. I think there's a sex tape episode or something where she's Like, well, that's a win do it. So I'm doing exactly,

Melissa Rivers 20:02

exactly anything for $1

Jeff Dwoskin 20:06

so funny, so funny. So your mom genre like with your dad, they it always was like a moat I was researching. It was always like a family business always. And then that kind of grew into you and Joan doing so many fun things together. I think it's great. I think it's because most people don't do that, right. I mean, it's like, this was sort of a unique thing for your mom to do is to not go off on our continued her own star path, but bring you and work the family in and do so many cool projects with you.

Melissa Rivers 20:37

But it started very much by accident. It started as you know, this would be a fun stunt kind of thing. And it worked. But it literally started as just, you know, I was already doing MTV and CBSA is and I shot a pilot for my own TV show. And it was right when came down to me and Ricki Lake for that show. And, you know, I was well on my way and the opportunity came up and she you know, it was like, Oh, this is very much I'm sure some sort of a, you know, this would be a cool attention grabbing Stein. And then all of a sudden, we're like, there is something here. So it really was very Kismet. It's not the right word, but I guess maybe Kismet is the right

Jeff Dwoskin 21:20

word. Yeah, the universe. The universe has a way right?

Melissa Rivers 21:23

Yeah, it was one of the things that there was just this ease and this banter and I need being there sort of being the Greek chorus, she could say more outrageous thing. So it became very much a balance work again, there was not some big Ooh, we're gonna try this and let's do this. And this is a master plan. It literally was just the ad. I'll be fine. Let's give it a whirl.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:47

Was it the easy stuff? That was the first stuff together? Okay, so red carpets was like it you know, I think back and like, I guess I was just there the whole time. But it's like I really you know, looking back you realize that became the fun part of

Melissa Rivers 22:02

how we managed to create walking into a bill attorney walking into a building into an event.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:07

I know it's i You have to think back sometimes you like you take things for granted. And you realize, oh, you just assumed it was always there. But as I start reading this now, you guys were there. We planted the flag, a rivers invention. Was it fun just kind of being able to do that. I know you have your podcast now and that you've talked to people but this has been like quick hits. Oh, it's so fun. Oh,

Melissa Rivers 22:27

fan back in the day at the time. It's not I don't think it's fun now, but it was very fun. As my mom used to say it was like the world's best cocktail party. You talk to everybody for two minutes. You know, you didn't have to get a d a cot did a quick catch up. Say oh, what are you wearing? Oh, and move on? Yeah, now you can't do that. Now. Everything has to be fucking serious.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:44

Now I just put it on. So I don't miss it when the other one started. Yeah,

Melissa Rivers 22:48

exactly. Because it's just like, you know, everyone, no one's allowed to. It was fun, and it was light. And it was exciting. And people were allowed to have a good time and be funny and be joyful. And I think we're just starting to get back to that place now. But it's been a long time.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:07

Yeah, it was like having it was like watching real conversations between real people who happen to be the stars and and that's what made it so enjoyable. Because they weren't on a pedestal to you were like, equals and talking with them. And I think that made all the difference.

Melissa Rivers 23:23

Absolutely. And people weren't scared. Now everybody's scared. Because

Jeff Dwoskin 23:27

if you do one thing wrong, it goes viral. It's everything so captured in the moment all that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's i It's so I so that was a huge claim to fame. And then I watched Jonah Melissa Jones was

Melissa Rivers 23:41

our hybrid reality show hybrid reality show.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:44

So the one episode I watched and I didn't pick this one it picked me I guess I would say as was just the one that was always there. It was called a public affair. It was somebody did something horrible to you on a dating site, and then Conrad finds out he's Jewish and your mom throws him out Bar Mitzvah.

Melissa Rivers 24:04

did find out he was Jewish, my friend Conrad The Wasp Vyas looking human being alive did like a 23andme or something like that and discovered Jewish and he can bull in real life. He fully converted, his wife converted II would go to services like he became a legit practicing Jew.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:25

That's cool. And that cool? That is and your mom helped him and I'm on through with Jason Alexander as you just you know, the normal Jewish Bar Mitzvah stuff that happened. That's my backyard. Yeah, that was it. It was just funny. Like, so. How was it? You've done a lot of reality TV, but like, Is it is it fun to like have to come up with all this drama or is it draining

Melissa Rivers 24:49

the show? You know, if you're also producing and basically writing the show, like Joe knows that that was exhausting. Celebrity Apprentice was exhausting because people don't realize you shoot One episode in two days, and it's made to look a lot longer. So you're going from you're usually in the hair and makeup chair around 5:30am. And you are basically going till you're done and you have to complete these tasks in so short time there are certain conceits, there are certain like printing places that will turn it for you really fast. There are certain things that are set up where normally you would go to Kinko's and they'd say, sorry, come back in three days. Yeah, so that kind of stuff was was factored in that we could get things done. But it was six days a week from sunup till it was done. So that was daunting and extremely stressful and extremely competitive.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:38

So Celebrity Apprentice that was season eight, I believe. All right, well, let's just take well, I'll take my research at face value, okay. It was season eight, you were on a team with it was Athena vs. Ko to let's just pretend that's how you pronounce it. You were on with Joan Rivers. You're both on the same team, Annie Duke and Brandi Broderick, you Khloe Kardashian. And then I'm not listing them all. But on the other team, Herschel Walker. Yeah, a lot of these names coming up again, Dennis Rodman, Tom Green, Scott Hamilton, Andrew Dice Clay. Was there anyone on the show that you connected with like that? You? Well, I

Melissa Rivers 26:16

was really I was friends with Tom beforehand. And that, you know, we talk once or twice a year, I adore Dennis. We stayed in touch for quite a while I haven't heard in a long time. Personal. I think people underestimated how smart of a businessman Herschel is. So he was very much wasn't what you expected. Very impressive. Jessie's super smart, super impressive. But then these people years later go on and do absolutely insane thing. And you scratch your head going? Wasn't the person I knew. But you know, I'm sure they look at me and say the same thing. But yeah, it's it's quite confounding to the whole you know, how all these places people, a lot of the people laid out their lives since that. But Tom, you know, we talk a couple times a year, but we were friendly beforehand. Anyway, so it was nice. I kind of like already had a buddy hanging out with,

Jeff Dwoskin 27:09

was it an issue knowing you're gonna go in competing against your mom? Yeah, no,

Melissa Rivers 27:14

we looked at that as an advantage. Okay, I guess

Jeff Dwoskin 27:17

you made it to sixth place, I guess you could say, Yeah,

Melissa Rivers 27:20

I was to be eliminated that night, they caught everybody by surprise. And it was all this drama. And you know, you're so deep in it and so competitive that when things happen, you lose your shit. And I lost my shit, because I knew that I was did not deserve to be fired. And they did not think I was going to be fired. And it caught everybody, meaning the crew and the producers and everyone very by surprise, and it turned into a whole behind the scenes issue that my charity got money, and my mom ended up winning. And that was that.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:57

Your mom was Celebrity Apprentice, she went off on that an anti joke as well. That was funny. So alright, so those emotions were real. That was you just

Melissa Rivers 28:07

Oh, very real. Okay. Emotions on that show are very, because you're exhausted and stressed. And you've got all these people who are extremely competitive.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:17

For some reason. I think the one thing I remember, one of the things I remember from that season was Khloe Kardashian being kicked off because Trump was like, You did something with drunk driving, but it had been like a million years ago. And then like,

Melissa Rivers 28:28

Well, no, she had to leave to go do like Publix, you know, do like community service to clear something up. And then it had been cleared by the network had been cleared by the producers for her to miss that particular those particular days, blah, blah, blah, and somehow found out what she was doing. And she blew back on the red eye and showed up for work. And he fired her. And it was a it was quite a debacle because it came completely out of the blue. And it had already been the network near the producers knew everybody knew it had been cleared before she even signed on to do the show. Because she knew she had to go home and do the community service.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:07

Right. She had already paid the dues or whatever was doing whatever. Yeah, just it anyway. Okay. Sorry to interrupt my amazing conversation with Melissa Rivers. Oh, we have to take a quick break. And now we're back get ready for some more Melissa Rivers. You've done a lot. Is there any of these slavery to get me out of here Family Feud Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Any of those specific ones? Anything's pop?

Melissa Rivers 29:34

No, I mean, you know, you do all those for charity. And it's fun did family feud with our entire family and that was really fun even though I almost murdered one of my cousin's literally almost killed them during a commercial break. Oh, those are fun. I would love to do celebrity Jeopardy, but I know I would freeze. I know I would freeze Yeah, I'm

Jeff Dwoskin 29:55

a great I'm great at Jeopardy at home.

Melissa Rivers 29:57

Yeah, I know. I would just freeze and being Like, my button isn't working and I would just I wouldn't be in full sweat.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:06

So what did it mean to you and Joan and the fat when she finally returned to the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. Oh, huge, epic. I rewatched the clip yesterday. It's It was great. It was there. Like, Was it weird? Like, is there animosity with Conan or like Jay Leno for like holding up this person viewed

Melissa Rivers 30:25

as kind of never had anything to do with it was more a thing with Leno. And I carried a lot of animosity towards him in particular, and you know what, I've gotten to a place in my life, like, who cares? I've hit that point where I'm like, who cares? Everybody's made decisions, good, bad, or indifferent. And for quite a while, I had a lot of a lot of issue with Jay Leno more than anybody and talk about it, and one of my books and talk openly about one time him snapping me, like looking right at me, and turning away, right after my mom died. And you know, what he claims he didn't notice me or he didn't see was me. It's like, whatever. But I don't even want to go there. Because you know, what he whether you think he's funny or not, he's got an unbelievable work ethic. He doesn't stop. He keeps pushing forward. And good for him. Like, on the other side, he got all the crazy with the Tonight Show and originally being pushed out and then brought back and you know, I, he's a survivor. And at this point, it's like, you gotta respect survivors, whether you like them or don't like them. I do respect them for being a survivor. Gotcha. Those of us who chewed up and spit out by late night, and I say, I consider myself part of that since was a huge part of my family. It is survivors.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:45

And Conan wasn't really there long enough probably to deal with.

Melissa Rivers 31:48

He wasn't really a part of the whole conversation.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:51

Okay. I was just curious, because I remember when it happened. And it was it was incredible. Yeah. And so it was

Melissa Rivers 31:58

a very special moment for everybody, including Jimmy. Yeah, I can imagine when you're walking into the studio now, they have pictures along the wall. And one of the big pictures is Jimmy and my mom that night,

Jeff Dwoskin 32:11

and your mom just came full guns blazing that night to Nazi joke, right? I loved him. Loved him loved him. So funny. One of the funny things about the clip is watching Russell Crowe,

Melissa Rivers 32:21

crying with laughter. Because you know, they're supposed to leave. And then Russell wanted to stay apparently. And they asked my mom if it was okay. And she's like, Sure. And he just was howling with laughter. And that's always wonderful to see. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 32:36

I mean, it's just like, giddy laughing like, yeah, like couldn't stop on that stuff. could not stop. I think that was great. I wanted to talk. You're an ambassador for our house Grief Support Center D. And then you do work with Didi Hirsch, mental health

Melissa Rivers 32:49

services and suicide prevention. Yes, I'm on their board.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:53

I watched tears and laughter. Was that cathartic?

Melissa Rivers 32:58

No, that was something I was I was arm twisted into doing and still regret to this

Jeff Dwoskin 33:03

day. Okay, so the focus on the charity side. So

Melissa Rivers 33:07

obviously, I'm on the board of Didi Hirsch, mental health services and suicide prevention. It's a wonderful organization, really moving the needle on opening up discussion about mental health and suicide prevention. And we've been instrumental in getting the 988 number launched, which is the new national number, their national number to call if someone is in distress, and is suicidal, if instead of calling belong helpline number, you now dial 988, if you call 911, they will now divert that to 988. So you get very specific kind of help and the help you need not a 911 person who's trying to feel all these calls find for it. So it's a very exciting time for us, because we were instrumental in getting that done.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:52

That's amazing. And then, and kind of just learning about this and just kind of rewatching this, we had a friend of the family lost a daughter to suicide recently. And so it was like as I was kind of digging in on all the good stuff that you're doing here and all that it was just like kind of, you know, things kind of line up and the timing. So it's great that you're doing all this and it's always nice when something that tragic in your life can happen and you can turn it into something.

Melissa Rivers 34:14

Yes. And I talk very openly about that, that one of the things that was the most horrific things in my life has turned into a huge purpose for me, as well as something incredibly meaningful and pathetic and positive

Jeff Dwoskin 34:30

to help a lot a lot of people so which is amazing. Talk to me about your podcast, group text,

Melissa Rivers 34:35

it's fun. I have great celebrities. We have fun conversations, we talk about everything anything. And it's like I try and always think what would be if this was my I was sitting next to this person and a dinner party. What would I want to ask and not just be like all fanned out, and I have these great conversations and we talk about current events and it's like you Keep them light and funny, not digging. There's no gotchas. It's just two people having a conversation. And I keep it that way. It's very, and I have notes, but you just never know which way it's going to go. And that's what's fun about it. And the nice thing is that people have on actually enjoy doing

Jeff Dwoskin 35:21

it. That's awesome. Yeah, I listened to a couple episodes, and I'm digging it. I'm subscribed now. And so it's fine. It's, it's good. It's always nice. We can hear just conversations or just feels like it's kind of just easy, easy, going back and forth. I listen to that to Carrera.

Melissa Rivers 35:38

That was so interesting. Like, I learned things about her

Jeff Dwoskin 35:41

so interesting. I'd met her once at a comic con, Grammy. She was a singer. Yeah, I met her at a comic con, I can't look at it without in my head going dream.

Melissa Rivers 35:52

We all know but that's what was so interesting was this cool other side of her and how she was discovered and all these fascinating things that you never would have thought from her. Starting with that she's an amazing singer, a Grammy Award

Jeff Dwoskin 36:08

winner. That's the beauty of these podcasts. When people come on, I can learn like little nuggets and get to know people differently than five minutes when if they're on Entertainment Weekly, or something like that. Oh, you know, and

Melissa Rivers 36:19

I'm very honest, I go okay, let's get out the plug. What are we here? You're here because of this. Let's get out better than that. Okay, now that's done. So now, let's talk about Were you a good student in grammar school, or did you spend time in detention?

Jeff Dwoskin 36:33

Awesome. So yeah, you got that. And then the other clip I found that I found fascinating. Was you talking with joy Bay? Hi, I don't know if it was on the view or not probably the view where people were saying that your son was just standing and that your mom put out a $5,000 reward to prove that you're not an actor?

Melissa Rivers 36:52

I have no idea what clip you want.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:55

Oh, really? It was a clip where you're talking to Joe pay heart. Joy. Oh, and I'm losing. You're talking about joy Bay. I was you and your mom. And there was like gossip or something going on about people saying that Cooper was an actor. Like there was a standard actor in your mind. Oh, and then reality? Was it just one of the plots made up? Or was it a

Melissa Rivers 37:16

No, I think people didn't realize that. That was actually Cooper.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:19

Got it. Alright, so it came from that. All right. That's curious.

Melissa Rivers 37:23

Cooper's now. 21, a senior in college

Jeff Dwoskin 37:27

lacrosse, right? He plays lacrosse plays lacrosse. That's incredible.

Melissa Rivers 37:31

Always be my baby. And we're lucky I have a great relationship. We have a great relationship. That's awesome.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:37

How did did he do? Well, kind of growing up in the limelight as well. Did he enjoy that? Or,

Melissa Rivers 37:42

you know, again, people say what was it like? I'm like, I don't know, because you don't really think about it. And my parents were so adamant about keeping a clear line between what was real and what wasn't real. And I've done the same with Cooper that he knows like, I always call it fake life versus real life. So he's in a place right now or he was in a place. I think he's still in Illinois, where he wants nothing to do with that. And I went through that also. But he also his interests are very different. He is very creative. He's going to end up in one of the creative arts. He loves music. He's had an had an amazing internship this summer with a label. He's got a job for next year. They've offered him a job for when he graduates

Jeff Dwoskin 38:26

and He's off and running. That's awesome. Yeah. So cool.

Melissa Rivers 38:29

And by the way, and it's like he wouldn't let me call anybody I knew. He put out applications. He did interviews, he did the whole thing. I'm really, really proud of at one point, he did ask me to talk to a friend of mine who works in a label for advice and who he talked to, but by the time we all connected, he already got his job. So and now she's now after that. He calls him she's like, I want you next summer he's already spoken for

Jeff Dwoskin 38:54

is a hustler. He's got drive.

Melissa Rivers 38:56

He is a hustler. He is he's got that hustle.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:01

And he had his fine berries to stand up.

Melissa Rivers 39:04

Hell no. But he definitely he definitely got the funny gene.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:08

That's awesome. Ah, well, Melissa, this was a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. Melissa rivers.com You can check you check out all the goods there. You got your book lies my mother told me tell tales from a short woman. It's a work of fiction, but you're gonna love it. It's gonna read so real, but it's not it's not real lawyers, not real. Where else do you hang out online?

Melissa Rivers 39:37

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, all the normal places you could think so.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:42

Awesome. I'll put links to the book and you're in the show notes and your podcast everyone check out group tag instead.

Melissa Rivers 39:49

Facebook, all that all that good stuff

Jeff Dwoskin 39:53

will just be a spike. Exactly. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Have a good day. Yeah. Have a good day too. All right, how amazing was Melissa river is my own little red carpet experience with Melissa Rivers, definitely check out her book super hilarious, check out her website. I'll put links to Melissa's website in the book and all that kind of good stuff in the show notes. So you can check that out there. In the meantime with the interview over, it can only mean one thing. That's right. It's time for another trending hashtag from the family of hashtags that hashtag around up download the free always free hashtag roundup app from the iTunes App Store or Google Play Store, tweet along with us and one day one of your tweets may show up on a future episode of Lhasa conversations fame and fortune awaits you. This episode is hashtag we're going back to 2019 #LiesYourParentsToldYou from Moose chuckle tag or weekly Game On hashtag or around us #LiesYourParentsToldYou obviously inspired by Melissa Rivers book lies my mother told me you can tweet your own hashtag allies. Your parents told you tweets tag us at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter. I'll show you some Twitter love in the meantime, here are some #LiesYourParentsToldYou tweets for inspiration, coffee stunts your growth. I told me Santa was real. But my mom didn't want me believing a lie. So she told me Santa died in a snow storm. Is there some amazing #LiesYourParent sToldYou tweets but wait there's more we'll be there in 15 minutes that the police are going to arrest you. If you turn the lights in the car in the dark. They should arrest you. You have potential is there a #LiesYourParentsToldYou these hockey cards aren't going to be worth anything. When you get older. You'll be strong like Popeye, if you eat your spinach, those glasses really suit your face. Babies are hatched from an egg. And the final #LiesYourParentsToldYou tweet, I will turn this car around. Oh, right. All of those are retweeted at Jeff Dwoskin show go show him some Twitter live well with the hashtag over and the interview over that can only mean one thing. That's right episode 188 has come to an end. I want to thank my very special guest, Melissa Rivers. And of course I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

CTS Announcer 42:36

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Classic conversations. If you like what you heard, don't be shy and give us a follow on your favorite podcast app. But also, why not go ahead and tell all your friends about the show? You strike us as the kind of person that people listen to. Thanks in advance for spreading the word and we'll catch you next time on classic conversations.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai