#180 Rita Rudner on Life, Comedy, Dogs, and Staying True To Yourself

CTS Announcer 0:01

If you're a pop culture junkie, who loves TV, film, music, comedy and other really important stuff, then you've come to the right place. Get ready and settle in for classic conversation, the best pop culture interviews in the world. That's right, we circled the globe so you don't have to. If you're ready to be the king of the water cooler, then you're ready for classic conversations with your host, Jeff Dwoskin.

Jeff Dwoskin 0:30

All right, Carrie, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 180 of classic conversations. As always, I'm your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for what's sure to be a legendary conversation that will soon be classic. My guest today author, actress, legendary comedian, Rita Rudner, Rita shares a lot of stories and we talk about her new memoir, my life and dog years, you're gonna love it. And that's coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds I want to draw attention to last week's amazing interview with William B. Davis. That's right the cigarette smoking man from The X Files Cue the music. I don't have rights to the music. Check that out. We talked about his book we talked about acting Life, The X Files, amazing conversation, but don't check that one out. So you're done listening to my amazing conversation with legendary comedian Rita Rudner. Enjoy. Hi, everyone. I want to introduce you to my next guest, author of her new memoir, my life and dog years. I'm so excited to be talking with comedy legend, radar, Ragnar Welcome to the show.

Rita Rudner 1:52

Thank you very, very much. And legend means I'm really old, but it's true. So that's good. We tell the truth here, right.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:00

This is only truth podcast.

Rita Rudner 2:02

Thank you. Because that's I'm very truthful. So

Jeff Dwoskin 2:05

I saw you live with Dennis Miller. Oh, Dennis peinado. Music Theater. Clarkston, Michigan. Wow, I looked it up. I googled because I was trying to figure out what year it was. My best guess is that it was June 14 1993. Amazing. It was so fun. Well,

Rita Rudner 2:22

Dennis and I and my husband Mark and his wife. We were all really really good friends. And I toured with Dennis a lot. And then it happened. We won't say something happened. I don't know what happened. I haven't talked to him since it happened. But do you know what happened? Because I don't know what happened. But something happened. And he went this no this way, whatever went way. And it just doesn't make any sense to me. But it makes sense to him. And that's what's important.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:54

That is what's important. So anyway, that's, that's a memory that I have. That was that was a great, great time. And the funny thing is a switch that became DTE. But now it's back to pi nap. So if you ever are touring an area again, it's swing by there were what I have no memory of so many things was like an outdoor it would have been an outdoor outdoor amphitheater.

Rita Rudner 3:15

I did an amphitheater. Wow. Yeah, that's unusual. I did. I remember I did a county fair once with Tony Bennett. And he was really afraid to go on because it was outside and the lights were attracting a lot of moths. And when you sing, you open your mouth. And you said, oh gosh, Rita, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna swallow him off. But he got through it. And he didn't. But it was scary. You know, I said, Well, you could tell jokes because your mouth doesn't have to open so why but he said, Oh, no, any jokes. So that was me and Tony Bennett in the county fair. And it was good. I remember there was a cow data butter. Oh, it was in the freezer. I bet. I've seen cars parked out of butter. Yeah, it was in a freezer. And it was a cow carved out of butter. And it was really cool. And I sent a picture home to Martin and I said, Martin, I'm in a place where the car butter cows.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:04

You haven't lived here seen a cow carved out of butter.

Rita Rudner 4:08

You know, I've been doing a few of these interviews and I've left a lot of things out that you helped me remember, but I don't think it was necessary to talk about the butter cow. So I'm glad I left it out.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:20

Maybe we'll hit on a few. A few more unique things. Your story your life story is so it's so fascinating. You're always that's a go getter at the age of 13 audition, I

Rita Rudner 4:30

was so such a headstrong person. And I don't know you can't create that and you can't stomp it out. It's just what who you are at that point in your life for whatever reason. And I think because you've read my story and you know, I think it was avoiding what was so tragically happening in my real life. And I wanted to go to another life and I created that other life for myself. So that song and Chorus Line everything is beauty Fall at the ballet. It was really I think a lot of people go to things like that require a lot of dedication and energy to avoid things that they don't want to think about. Oh, I should be a psychologist. Not really. But I was so headstrong. I mean, I couldn't believe the things that my father let me do and the things that I did and the things I would never let my daughter do.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:23

Going off to New York. It was 15 Right? It was

Rita Rudner 5:27

15 by myself. Yeah, I just had packed my suitcases and my father took me to the airport and I stayed at a hotel for women Barbizon hotel for women, which I mentioned in my book. And it was four months before I got my equity card and my first show going around the country in the musicals or bath with two people I bet I hope you know, Chita Rivera, who is again a she's a legend and John Wright, who was a big musical comedy star.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:54

Sure, John right. Barney writes father

Rita Rudner 5:57

and I have Bonnie Raitt in my book too, because I was the privilege to be one of the first people to hear Bonnie Raitt sing in person right before her album came out, because she was visiting her dad on the road. How amazing was that? Yeah. And she was fantastic. And she's just one of my all time favorite musical

Jeff Dwoskin 6:12

artists. And I do know who Chita Rivera is also she then she didn't

Rita Rudner 6:17

like me very much, but I don't blame her. I was 16. And I stepped out in front of her at a curtain call and I fell down and who would like a kid like that? But I apologized.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:27

That's so funny. So in your book, it's just one line in your book.

Rita Rudner 6:30

i There's only one line in my whole book. No,

Jeff Dwoskin 6:32

there's one line in your book that you dedicate to this, but I wanted to mention that. Oh, okay. And that's, you said early on during this kind of timeframe. You did industrial shows. Oh, all the time. I had a guest on Steve Young. I have you seen the it's on Netflix. It's on baby a bunch of places but it's called bathtubs over Broadway. No. Okay. So it's an entire documentary, Steve Young worked it Late Night with David Letterman, which I know is a huge part of your story. But he was there for like 20 years. And during this time, he discovered industrial shows because the remnants of them were left behind as LPs. So I know so there's an entire documentary Chita Rivera is actually in it because she performed in the shows also they paid very well. Yeah, that's what it said. Like Martin Short tons of people were in it. Yeah. bathtubs over Broadway. You love it. I bet you should check it out. It's a 90 minute tight documentary, but it's all about industrial shows.

Rita Rudner 7:24

And what is it on?

Jeff Dwoskin 7:25

It's on? I think I can get on Netflix.

Rita Rudner 7:27

Netflix, I can do that. I can I do a little bit of my industrial show for you now because I remember some of it. That is exactly what I was hoping for. Okay, my car. One of my car shows I had many car shows. This was the continental the comet and the Newmar key, the midsize Montego and the sexy Capri. And then there's the cougar and the great mark three more kinds of cars for more kinds of people. Did I do name all the cars right continental the calm? Yeah, that Yeah. Continental comes into my opinion, my sentiment to understand is that it's a cougar to get more kinds of car for more because people Yeah, that was it. And I did a lot of singing about Kraft cheese craps making it happen in Houston with ads that are selling them all. It isn't surprising with their advertising. They're running away with St. Paul. I'm sorry. It's in my memory bank and I can't get rid of it. This

Jeff Dwoskin 8:13

is I'm loving every second of this. You got Wow, good. Yeah, no, this is awesome. I would just say it's a fascinating kind of hidden piece of American theatre history that most people don't know about because they were never meant to be seen.

Rita Rudner 8:27

Well. I also did. I only did it one year. But I did the Milliken show, which was the huge industrial show for dancers at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York once a year where the stockings don't snap tags had her bag. They made the fabrics so I did that one too, with Juliet press and Tommy Tune as a matter of fact, and under Louise, I'm telling you these industrial shows, I don't know if they still do them or not because it's a different world now. But at that point between Broadway shows or between summer scarf, if these industrials it was they were very competitive, and they hired really good people. So I was very fortunate to get so many of them.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:03

Yeah, I think they were here during like the 60s and 70s. And then well, I

Rita Rudner 9:07

wasn't in the 60s, but I was in the 80s and 90s. And I did them mostly in the 80s I'd say because that was my big that. No 70s And maybe 70s and 80s. Yeah, because they stopped doing Broadway in the 80s. So it's probably the 70s

Jeff Dwoskin 9:20

I was watching documentaries. Sometimes they spend more money than actual Broadway shows to put one of these like a corporation would spend millions.

Rita Rudner 9:28

I got flown to do I did a big one for TWA for Pete with Peter Sellers. They flew four people, me and three other girls singers and dancers to London and we did it on a show starring Peter Sellers in a big theater and the West End. So and that's when I met Peter Sellers. It was very because he's one of my you know, who doesn't love Peter Sellers. He's one of the all time comedic geniuses and he was in the dressing room and the three other girls we decided to go in and say hello to him because He was very, very shy. And we're not going to say we just want to say hello to you. He was very polite. And he said hello. And then he created all these different characters for the TWA, which was an airline. I don't know if you know that a long time ago, and he was not allowed to do Inspector Clouseau, which was the only character that people were familiar with. And he was so good at characters that when he came on, people didn't know who he was. And they didn't know it was Peter Sellers. And it was a big bomb, and they spent a million dollars and it was nothing, then they had to throw it all away, oh my god. But that was that would have to be flown to London, and we got to stay in a hotel for a week. And it was just, it was fantastic. That is amazing. So let's do more industrial shows. They were fun. I know, you know what I do now, which I guess it's not really industrial shows, I do corporate events, which again, they're very difficult to do, I'm gonna sneeze when maybe I'm not gonna edit it out. Feel free to know, it's good. Because I like to you never hear people sneeze in interviews. And I think it would be helpful to know that people are real people, but it went away. We should go anyway, I'm not That's not a joke for me. I'm not doing Where did the speech go? So what's up with? Oh, what's up with this news? No. But um, so what was I saying about the oh, now I do corporate events I just did one for a Presbyterian Hospital then and was very difficult about corporate events is that the people did not come to see you, they came for the event. And very often, they've been drinking quite a bit. And very often, you have to follow an auction where people are spending money and they don't know what they're doing. And you get on the stage. And you have to kind of corral them to see to, you know, to get into a group again, but the people are usually very nice. And I do lots of those, too.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:39

That's awesome. Yeah, I do stand up. I haven't done it as much lately since the pandemic, but those type of shows where they're just all of a sudden thrust into comedy. Well, if they're there to see you read abroad, and I imagine it's different than when Oh, then it's

Rita Rudner 11:51

a theater, and then it's great. But these are things where you're, you're there to, to benefit. And they've usually had to spend $500, a seat or something. And then so that's why maybe that's why they're drinking so much. They want to get their money's worth. It's a little bit difficult idea of various the fewer people there are, you know, the more difficult it is I did a 65th birthday event for somebody, and it was just the family. And it was so hard because when it's bad enough when you know each other, and then people know each other, and then they don't want to laugh in front of people. But when you're related to them, and they're laughing at the wrong joke, and they're looking around Oh, gotcha nightmare. The best audience is a bunch of people who never met all different ages and ethnic groups, and they're the best.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:35

I totally agree with that analysis. Had I been asked to wager, though, I would have said that you would have less of an issue with that, because you're just your comedy is so it's so clean. And it's like, it's not as if I've laughed, I don't know that I would feel bad about laughing because it's all such relatable.

Rita Rudner 12:52

Yeah, but like, I have jokes where at the end, it kind of goes like that. Oh, because the joke has to have a spring at the end to propel you into your life. And very often I have things that are kind of negative to end my joke with but negative connected with the truth. Sure. Which is even more difficult to laugh at. If you know the person next to you. We could do an analysis of comedy that would be fun. Now it's very rare, very boring. Listen to it.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:19

It is interesting. Now it just the whole thing. It's definitely interesting how eight strangers could be a great audience at one point, the worst at another point. And like you said, if they're all if it's the mom and the grandma and because they're out because they're getting married,

Rita Rudner 13:37

it's lots of people with a mother and a daughter. And then lots of people who don't know each other and mother, they're the best group but it's also interesting when you get a group that's mostly female because the laps are so soprano, and there's no bass in them and they're just kind of off balance. And I've cuz sometimes I do like an afternoon luncheon for a women's group or something. And, and you need in there to kind of make it a full sound. So those are always difficult.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:03

That's really funny. Sorry to interrupt guy take a quick break. I want to thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my amazing conversation with Rita Rudner. We're about to talk about how Rita transitioned into becoming a comedian. And we're back what I found really fascinating in your story, and your book is so when you were finishing off, you decide when you were tailing off from your Broadway career, you're and Annie and you decided to go from something that's kind of introverted to very extroverted and you decided to become a comedian. So what besides the fact that I know in the book you talked about there being not as many female comedians and that

Rita Rudner 14:48

was it. That was why I said there's not going to be a lot of competition. And when I go on these Broadway auditions, even though it was doing well for somebody who you know, was a A working Broadway dancer singer actress, I said it's only going to get more difficult from here. I'm 27. And I've been doing it since I was I've been on Broadway since I was 17. And it was, I didn't know it would fascinate me as much as it did. And I it just kind of got in my brain. Why do people laugh? What makes them funny? What makes somebody else funny and sitting there and what in fact, they say in my book, The first time I auditioned for Letterman, it was raining and people laugh less when they're wet, and, and the whole place was like soggy. And if people are dry and cold, they laugh a lot more than if it's humid and they're wet. Which is why when you did David Letterman, the theater was always everyone complained about it was so freezing all the time, but it kept keeps everyone awake and alert rather than if you're kind of weighed down by the weather.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:48

Right? You mentioned that it was Tuesday it was raining how to the set was

Rita Rudner 15:53

Morton came to see me it was but he said but your material is good. Let's come to see you on another night, which was very nice of him. And he came he came to see me on another night, same material and a keel. And then I got on the David Letterman Show

Jeff Dwoskin 16:05

of which you were a regular right that became one of your I did he was

Rita Rudner 16:09

he's still one of my idols one of the all time great late night hosts of all time. I said all time too many times. But anyway, you know what I mean? I do. Yeah, I mean, he was iconic. David Letterman. they'll ever be another David Letterman because he could have that kind of easy, cool, nerdy Professor every man had everything going on at one time. And it was just an incredible combination that he had that that spoke to my generation. I agree

Jeff Dwoskin 16:35

100% I mean, there wasn't a time where we get together we wouldn't do top 10s and imitate Oh,

Rita Rudner 16:41

everything is funny because I did with his girlfriend then Merrill Marco who another she's such a funny funny woman and we got to go to Boston together fly together at when we were doing a show in Boston and she was doing she would go it meant women or she said to one of my favorite Meryl Marco is isms is you know, a woman's desert is always located inside a man's desert. Because I literally I industry, I always take a little bit of Martin's dessert, and he can have the rest. But she was she was very, very funny women. And she created I think the pet what was it called with a pet has pet talent? Oh, stupid. Patrick's got the pet tricks. Yeah, yeah. And so she was very great creative mind.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:21

She did a lot. I mean, now that you're mentioning that I'm having a flashback to history of late night documentary that I saw that were that it was responsible for a lot of things that we came.

Rita Rudner 17:30

She said to me, you know what's funny about me and David Letterman, we both have the same working hours. And I always know what's for dinner.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:38

That's so funny. So the other interesting thing in your book was, I mean, you're known you have a very distinct, hilarious, powerful comedy style. But everyone was trying to change you along the way,

Rita Rudner 17:49

everyone, everyone except the audience. So you always have to listen to the audience. Everyone said that I should wear a big bow in my hair, come on in a wedding dress and say want to get married, I shouldn't be more aggressive, I shouldn't have more energy, I should be louder. You know, in comedy, you have to be who you are. You can't pretend you're someone else. And at that point, I think because people were so used to Joan Rivers and Phyllis Diller who, again, I have in my book who were such nice women and I was friends with both of them. They were that's who they were, they couldn't do another style. And I couldn't do another style. And I just felt that doing something that isn't already there would be a good thing rather than a bad thing. And if the audience I always go by the audience, because an audience never gets together before a show and says let's not laugh at that. It's a totally honest reaction. If it's funny, they laugh. It's not funny. They don't laugh. So I said, I'm listening to the audience. And it worked out.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:41

Amen. Hmm. So the first person was like, oh, you know, what was it like, your voice is too low? Or it was like, No, my

Rita Rudner 18:47

voice was too high. So it's okay. Right? And it's just she said, It's just not a good comedy voice, you must go to a voice coach. Meanwhile, I already done parts on Broadway in summer stock and industrials. And no one ever said that to me before. But I think it was her reacting to the fact that it wasn't I always go on the fact where an audience has to know it's a punch line, I'm not going to say it's a punch line. So I don't want to put an emphasis on the dreaded editor at the end. And I think that's what she was reacting to, is that it was a different rhythm than she'd heard. But Bill Maher, who's also in my book said, as Silva was so reluctant to let me go on stage. He was the emcee at catch rising star and he said I can get you on because you're funny and he did awesome to Bill Maher who does my whole comedy career I can blame on him.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:34

The amazing thing about your comedy and I was rewatching it but some of your specials is it's amazing the power of how you just pause and control that silence at the end when after you deliver your punch line.

Rita Rudner 19:47

That's from listening to Jack Benny because he was another he was my mother's favorite and my dad's favorite. So I started saying well maybe I should see that about this Jack Benny you know who is and I started going to the museum of broadcasting because he was a I studied quiet people because I'm quiet like the Smothers Brothers were quiet and I thought they were hysterically funny. Albert Brooks is another one who I think is tremendous comedian. And I just looked at those people. None of them were women, though, at that point, because all women, the female comics were of the aggressive style, even when I started to figure out who toady Fields was. And I guess there was, there was somebody who people told me I was like, and I looked her up, and they were correct. Her name was Jean Carol, and somebody sent me a tape of her and she would get on stage and she would be like, nicely dressed and just talk and wouldn't do a whole wouldn't put emphasis on certain things. And I think I never saw her before. So I didn't copy her. Honestly, I didn't, but it was just the style that was comfortable. For me

Jeff Dwoskin 20:44

the command of silence at the end of the job, Tanaka more like trying to fill the space and let the audience come to you. Mm hmm. You know, it's it's an understated mastery. I mean, it's like that is it's a superpower. I think, I think

Rita Rudner 20:56

Well, that's very nice view. It's just also I learned it because I used to go to this piano bar when I couldn't get on at the improv. And Marcy, and his name was Joe, Joe and Marcy, and there was the blender was very close to the piano and the mic was near the blender. And a lot of times I'd be waiting to tell the punchline beat until they finished the frozen daiquiri so I think that gave me it did cuz you know, you get to be nervous when you get up there. But when you started joking, you hear the blender. You're gonna wait till the blender stops and I think it gave me the confidence to just hold it a beat on it for the frozen Daiquiri.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:32

That is incredible. So was your first tonight show before or after I'm just trying to remind myself of the timeline of Rodney Dangerfield young comedian special after Rodney was after I was still

Rita Rudner 21:43

living in New York when I did Rodney Dangerfield young comedian special and then it didn't my book that said I had such a hard time getting on The Tonight Show that I basically had given up until he just did Jim McCauley the booker just didn't like again, he just didn't like me at all. And he said there's no way you're gonna ever get on the show. He actually said things like that. You're not right for the show. Johnny won't like you. It was very encouraging. And one day I was starting to get up at the Improv and he was sitting with Alex Friedman, who's Budd Friedman's wife who but we've been on the improv and Alex was such a nice woman and she said, Why do you leave every time she gets on sit there? Alex was very forceful, and I had a really good set. And that's how I got on The Tonight Show. But he again tried to change me and he said, your timing. This is I don't know what happened here is your timing is off. Have you ever seen Mary Lou Retton? It that's in the book too. And I said, you know, she's a gymnast? And he said yes, but she's got a really good timing now. Okay. Yeah, I'll watch Mary Lou Retton, if I can get on the genetics. And I got on The Tonight Show and I didn't actually get on the show. I was bumped because they ran out of time. And my first show was with rich Scheibner. And me and of the high personnel I can't remember. Did you look it up and see who it was? The book.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:01

Hi, Jay. Well, you know, I ended up only writing down Rich's name because,

Rita Rudner 23:05

yeah. Well Rich was he's very, very good comedian. And I didn't really I wasn't friendly with the other person. I don't remember his name. But I will after this interview is over. And I'll wake up in there all night, and I'll scream his name, and I'll call you

Jeff Dwoskin 23:17

perfect. I wonder how many other people Jim McCauley. Pat. I mean, if he didn't see your brilliance, I question his credentials. You know, it's like, it just seems because you went on to become one of Johnny's favorites.

Rita Rudner 23:29

I know. He would call him. The I was one of the only people he would come into the makeup room and talk to me, just asked me how my day was it was and he was very shy again. And I don't blame these people. You know, because that people go they're not friendly. They're not friendly, because I do appreciate it too. And these David Letterman, Johnny Carson, Oprah Winfrey, they have to meet 1000s probably millions of people during their lifetime. They can't be on for every single person who walks by so I mean, as long as they're friendly, and you know, they greet me and say good morning. That's all anyone can ever expect from somebody who has to meet that many people. Well, it turned out really nice to me. Johnny was very, very sweet. That is awesome.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:07

So let's get back to Rodney Dangerfield. Talk to me about the path to the young comedian special

Rita Rudner 24:12

Lee Samia catch rising star that's the thing that you have to remember if you want to be anything in show business is that nobody invites you in you have to go find it. And I know so many people who sit home and they wait for the phone to ring or they wait to be asked to do something you know you can't you've got to get out there and be out there every single minute and something might happen if you're home nothing happens. And sure enough once I was at texturizing store I had a really good set Rodney was there and he pulled me aside and he said I saw your set picks a long time kids sometimes you never make it and I went well Thank you Rodney and he said but you're very funny. Would you be on my comedy special guest and that was it turned out to be a special that even though it was when was it was in the 8580 85 So, you know, I knew you'd know. I don't really remember things like too many to accurately people still go back to the jokes that I did on that special and like when I said when he saleswoman said this looks much better on on what on fire, you know, just silly things like that. And to think that was really an introduction to Louis Anderson to Sam Kinison to Bob Saget. It was really a thrill to be chosen to be on that show

Jeff Dwoskin 25:29

that special in itself, which was the ninth annual is I think iconic in itself. I mean, I think when people think of the Rodney Dangerfield young comedians special that's the one they vengo I mean, that also had Bob Nelson and Yakov Smirnoff. And I think

Rita Rudner 25:43

that Bob and not were they on it bobbin knockoff too? I think so.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:47

Yeah. Bob Nelson was Yeah, yeah. But it just the amount of talent that Rodney Dangerfield was, was able to spot and pull together. He was

Rita Rudner 25:56

a very, very funny man. And what was really interesting to me is that when I was I remember I was working somewhere and Rodney Dangerfield, found out where I was, and I answered the phone in the hotel, and he I said hello and is a reader. This is Rodney. But Rodney Dangerfield, he's yours, Ronnie, I'm thinking playing Vegas. Where do you think I should play? Because I had played Vegas so long. It was a desert in like, what should and I was coaching Rodney Dangerfield through all the different venues. And I said, Well, who ever thought that anything like this would ever happen in my life that Rodney Dangerfield will call me up and say, Where do I play in Vegas?

Jeff Dwoskin 26:33

That's amazing. Now that's so cool. Sorry to interrupt this amazing conversation with Rita Rudner, but we got to take a quick break. And we're back with Rita Rudner about to dive into how the young comedian special impacted her life and we're back it was just one of the things that you consider like just completely exploded your career I know Sam Kinison This was his big boom

Rita Rudner 26:54

I was he exploded I it kind of put me on a path I he went on. He had a firecracker. I had a bicycle. And I just it just led me to the next one. The next one. The next one. I always said if there was every rung to step on, I even found half a rung because I just climbed up very slowly and slowly, slowly. And what I'm proud of is that the jokes I wrote kind of have a longevity and people I mean, they're on napkins and some they're on bumper stickers and things like that. So I love that I can go back and say I thought of that in my own little head because before that when I was a dancer, a singer an actress, I was very controlled about everything I did what I said where I went, how long I held a note where I was when I had to deliver a line where it was just I was almost a robot. So it was like breaking out and being free and people ask me you know, Isn't it scary being a comedian and so yes, it's scary but it's very rewarding because you have total freedom right? Because you Mike, me and Mike an address amazing. Your audience. So yes, that's what I learned during the pandemic and audience is the most important part that you know, working.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:00

How was comic relief? I used to love those specials

Rita Rudner 28:04

very scary. I did it a couple of years and it's always a huge one was at Universal Studios and one was in radio city and it's panic time, but you just get together you're the tightest five minutes that you can get and you go on stage and you meet incredible people back backstage i i met one of my all time idols Mary Tyler Moore, and a picture with Mary Tyler Moore, which I just have on my wall and it's just amazing to be backstage with all those people and even Don Rickles I did kind of get help with Don Rickles, which was how I think that I would do Carnegie Hall with Don Rickles. So, all those things are very intimidating. But it's like after you exercise, so you didn't you're scared to do it. But it was very rewarding when you were done. And Whoopi Goldberg has always been really nice to me. I have to say she's a very nice woman.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:52

I love those Comic Relief things to me. Those were like a one of those HBO events that was just so incredible to watch

Rita Rudner 28:59

Chris Albrecht and Bob Zmuda there they were. And they they raised a lot of money. And it was a it was a wonderful charity. And evidently they were entertaining. And I was backstage growing up so watching it was very entertaining

Jeff Dwoskin 29:12

being hosted by Robin Williams, Billy Crystal and Whoopi Goldberg. That's I mean that's that's that's a power trio right there in itself.

Rita Rudner 29:19

Well, I was very what's great about them is their ability to improvise, which I always struggled with. I still struggle with it. But it's always fun when you can do something all of a sudden that's funny. I took loads of improv classes to when I was in New York, I found a really nice, wonderful improv them and called Tamra I think, Tamra Wilcox, and I studied improv with her so I think when you if you want to be a comedian, I always tell my daughter because she is in music and she's in music school now and she wants to be a singer songwriter and you learn you just don't learn on a narrow path. Everything that you eventually put yourself out to absorb information from will end up who you are. People say was being a ballerina. Any hell Have you in comedy? Well, it kind of was because I've had the courage to go on stage and run around on my toes. So it helped the next thing where I was on Broadway where I had the courage to audition with millions and millions of people, which gets you to the next stage. So everything informs the next thing. Absolutely. And I'm always doing things that scare me. I just got an offer to do to do a bit part for Magnum Pei next week, and I'm going to Honolulu and I'm really scared to do that, too. But I'm going to do it. Well, that's awesome. No, that's, that's I know. But that's what's so good about the show, because you never know what's going to happen and who's going to be there like my husband and I have written another play because we write plays together. And one play that we did with it turned up in New York, we got financing to do it in a small theater in New York, and then the pandemic happened, and then we didn't do it anymore. But we've written a new play. And that's scary, too. But I think that's important to just not only go over the things that you've already done, I love

Jeff Dwoskin 30:55

in the book, how you met your husband, Martin, and there's all these collaborations how you guys you know, this obvious soulmates here and just saw the creative Peters friends and it was nice to him to let you be kind of brand as wife.

Rita Rudner 31:08

I know.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:10

That's love right there. And that's all.

Rita Rudner 31:13

He was married to Martin's other best friend, Emma Thompson. So he knew there was there was no chance of anything untoward happening, which I did. I wrote that in the book to the four of us used to go on vacations together. And we went on ski trips together in one country. And so the four of us were all really good friends, but then then something happened. And now I'm really good friends that we're really good friends with Emma and Greg, her wonderful husband and Ken I'm sure he's very happy winning Oscars.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:43

Alright, awesome. So let's talk about Vegas. I got the impression from the book correct me if I'm wrong, is that Martin kind of saw the opportunity to do the when I say smaller, quote unquote, smaller venues for longer runs was Was this not a thing at the time? So he kind of

Rita Rudner 32:01

he got the idea you know, it's funny because I wrote this book, and I can't remember what because of that edited by other people and I got so tired of reading it I didn't you know, I can't remember what's in it and what's not, but we mark martin and I wrote a short film called What was it called? unfunny girl? Yeah. Did I write about unfunny girl in the in the book? Well, anyway, so we did it was a half hour movie for Showtime and we did it in then Coover, it was about the least funny person. It was like a spin on Pygmalion instead of teaching someone to be a lady. It was two old comedy managers bet each other one says I can teach anyone to be funny. And the other one says it's impossible. You were the funny You're not funny. And they find the least funny woman in the world, me. And they tried to coach her into being a comedian. We hired all these because I love I love older comedians to try to help me be funny. And Jackie Greene was one of them. And Jack Carter and Phyllis Diller. And actually Jean Barry, what Anne Frank Gorshin were the two managers. And it was it was really well cast and Checky green used to always talk to Martin, because he was very funny. And Martin loved Jackie green and said that Shecky Greene said he worked forever in Vegas, because he worked smaller rooms. And when you work smaller rooms, you could have a regular show. And he did two shows a night for years and years and years because he didn't have to attract 1000s and 1000s of people and it lasted longer. So that's okay, Martin the idea shaggy green told him how to do it.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:27

You're considered like Queen of Las Vegas. I mean, you.

Rita Rudner 33:30

I was I don't I am. I'm working there next weekend. But I had my own theater built for me there.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:35

Oh, you were comedian of the year, nine years in a row.

Rita Rudner 33:39

It was a real, again, a different time in our lives. We decided to adopt a child. And I didn't want to be somebody who wasn't there for my child. And I also didn't want to be someone who never worked again, because I had to travel in order to do my comedy. So Martin and I found a place where I could stay in one place the audience could travel and we could raise our daughters. So we raised her in Las Vegas, and I was always there. I put her to bed. I took her to school. I was there all the time. And she probably wishes I wasn't there so much. That I was I was always there, Mom, why can't you she was so independent early on. So I was always there to pick her up at two o'clock or three o'clock after school and there was some kids whose parents worked and they didn't get picked up till five o'clock. And Molly, Molly name someone said to me, Mom, why did other kids get to stay in school longer and you always pick me up? Like, what have I done here? I'm doing everything wrong. I'm trying to do it right.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:36

My other entertainment mom's traveling to

Rita Rudner 34:39

I have to come home and the other kids get to stay in. Even when you know I bought it to preschool and I picked her up the first couple of weeks at lunch the other kids get to eat lunch at school if you're okay. I can see it's not gonna be a problem for you being independent and it isn't.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:55

Well, I think it's brilliant. I think a lot of people took your playbook Celine Dion

Rita Rudner 34:59

Absolutely. She can't, she copied me gave me no credit. She said yes, I am in one place and the audience is traveling and I'm raising my sons with my husband. So yeah, right not to give her talking to

Jeff Dwoskin 35:12

exactly 2 million tickets. At least 2 million tickets over 2 million tickets sold longest running solo show in Vegas. I mean, right? You were in like multiple. Right? You started with the MGM and then they just kept building theaters for Yeah,

Rita Rudner 35:25

well, that the MGM was a strange place. But before I mean, I played every every hotel on the strip, probably because every time I went to Vegas, it did really well. And we took that that's one in my book, one of my sayings that I heard Linden oaks, actually, it was something she said ride the horse and the direction is going and my horse kept going to Las Vegas and people liked me there. And when I I worked for Richard Richard Sturm was the entertainment director at Bally's and I used to play Bally's all the time with Dennis Miller and Louie Anderson. And then when he went over to the MGM, I did loads of shows Dennis and I worked the MGM all the time. And then there was a show there was a small show room it was 350 400 seats right in the middle of the casino. And they didn't know what to do with it because they wanted to have the show called the crazy girls, but they changed it to law firm because it was naked French women and but they were dressed with lights. And it was like oh, it's it's naked. But it's classy. Yeah, well there. But so they were having trouble negotiating a contract. I said one of the problems was dressing rooms, which is very ironic because they didn't wear any clothes. But then I went into this room and started selling out. And it sold out for six months. And then the naked ladies naked French women came and they took over the theater and the vice president of the MGM was made president of New York, New York, and he said I'll build you a theater come over here. And I said, Yes, let's please. And that's when Martin and I sold our house in Beverly Hills, and we moved lock, stock and barrel. We just changed everything. We left our furniture, we left our dishes, we took our cars because we had to drive. But otherwise, we just said we're starting a whole new life here. And we adopted our baby. And we lived in Las Vegas. And it was a very successful time for me.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:19

It's amazing. I love the part of the story where they offered you a headlining gig that you turned down with, I think was with Richard Jeni was amazing. Yeah, like we were very good friends. I saw I've seen him twice. And I remember when he was once at our comedy, The comedy Castle Mark release comic castle. And they would tell me they go Jenny he do like I think even through Sunday, which was normally through Saturday, and he's like, he never did the same thing twice.

Rita Rudner 37:44

He was well, he was one of those naturally funny people. And I'm more of a studied funny person. But we worked a lot together. Martin took the two of us to Australia. And it was me Richard Jenny and Larry cameras. And we did a show in the Gulf Coast and then in Sydney. And then Martin actually opened up a comedy club in Melbourne after that. So we're comedy comedy comedy here. What was the question? Let's go back.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:08

Oh, the question was there was the empowerment to say no, a woman can headline without a man.

Rita Rudner 38:13

Yeah. So Richard Sturm called, first of all, because Martin and I said, you know, maybe we should just take a break. Because you know, you you've worked a lot. And let's figure out our lives from here on whether we want to write movies, what do we want to do? And then we get a call and Richard Sturm said, Would you like to headline or CO headline with with Richard Jeni in the MGM theater? And Martin said, No. And I said, Martin, why did you say that? I will. I like to work. And Richard and I are really good friends. And he said, It's time you can't go backwards. You have You're your own person. And if you can't be by yourself, just don't work in Las Vegas anymore. You don't because I had been headlining the desert in and the MonteCarlo and all these places by myself. And he said don't go back to co headlining that's the wrong thing to do. And sure enough, a couple of weeks later, when Richard strim called up and said Be your own headliner, and go into this was called the capture rising star theatre at that time, and we changed it to the cabaret theatre. And that was a turning point for our lives in a good way. And a great way. Oh my god, yeah. Because I got to be a mommy.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:16

That's so great. So got to tell jokes. In your book, I think one of the events you mentioned in Las Vegas woman Woman of the Year 2006. But you happen to mention, I think Danny ganz was there. And I had the pleasure of seeing him before he passed away. Well, what an amazing that was an amazing show as well.

Rita Rudner 39:34

Well, he was another reason that it was signaling Martin that we should go to Las Vegas was the Danny Ganz, who was a very talented guy, but wasn't really well known, was sitting in one place in a smaller theater making a fortune. And he said, Well, he's not even on HBO, you're on HBO. Let's go there. You'll be more famous and I shut down against sold out because, you know, his whole career. He was a huge, huge hit in Las Vegas and I Did his celebrity golf tournaments and then I called him up and I said, Will you do the Woman of the Year for me? And he said, Absolutely. And he showed up and he was terrific. I did that with him and David Brenner.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:09

Amazing. One of my favorite stories in your book, that's actually two stories, but I kind of linked them together. One was Debbie Reynolds showing up Oh, and calling you out for not calling her out. But then the party that ensued after

Rita Rudner 40:25

and Louie, Louie Anderson, so Louis, and I were working at Bally's together, and Debbie Reynolds was next door. And with Taylor, who's a very funny comedian who used to flip his wig like this all the time. And she came to see my show. And I didn't know that she came to see my show. And I just did my show. And she came backstage and said, You didn't mention I was in the audience. I didn't know. And he's, it's a tradition, everybody. I'm sorry. I know. She said, Well, I have another tradition. We all get together after the show. And I play the piano and I sing, and we invite all the celebrities and all the the other shows, and we have a big party. So I'll see you tomorrow night. I mean, she was at powerhouse. And I got to be good friends with her too, because she eventually opened up her own casino, the Debbie Reynolds casino, which I'm helped to do a lot of promo for that when she opened up her casino, and she was just a bundle of energy. This woman. She was amazing. So Louis, of course goes yeah, let's do it. That sounds good. Let's do it. So who leaves who's the first one to leave at this party is Louie Anderson, of course, my husband Martin, who's Mr. antisocial. And he's behind the scenes, but he's not somebody who doesn't say he's pretending to be at a cold and he stayed upstairs. So it's me and Debbie Reynolds and rip Taylor. And she's, you know, she's there and then there. And I don't, I mean, I have a glass of wine sometimes. That's about it. And I finally I had to leave and there were some other people I didn't know. And people showed up and left and it was a big party. And then the next day we got to the bill. And evidently, Debbie drank she had very very good time, but she was such a talented woman. What a story talk about a life story. Oh my god. Yeah. And I also did, wrote for the Oscars with Carrie Fisher. Carrie Fisher was such a funny funny person. It that whole episode is very sad.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:14

Oh, very sad. Very sad. Yeah. Carrie was an amazing author. Everyone thinks Princess Leia immediately. Wow, her writing was.

Rita Rudner 42:23

Amazingly, her mind was so skewed differently from anybody else's. And she was just a very, very funny, darkly funny person, which I love.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:33

So much. So so so the other story in the book that I thought was a funny kind of book and to the Debbie Reynolds was you at the Liza Minnelli show. And Liza Minnelli does call you out. I know.

Rita Rudner 42:43

Because Felix, I went with the president of the Luxor because he was the one who built me the theater at New York, New York. And he wanted a list of a four license show. And he said come do it. And he told lies. I was there. And again, Liza, such a huge, huge talent and so unique. And she got to the show, and she was amazing. And then she introduced me at the end of the show as one of her very, very closest friends. And then I didn't know did we put the picture of me analyze it in the book. I'm not sure if I can double check. And then Liza came out at the end and she's just a different person or her eyelashes were gone. And she was a little bathrobe. And she was this little tiny, loose little tiny person but had this huge personality.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:27

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So back to Steve Martin writing for the Oscars for Steve Martin. So he did your show that you and Martin produced called Ask Rita right. So

Rita Rudner 43:36

nice to do that. I called him up and I said what he was just a man of his word. And he came in and we had a show called escrita, which Martin produced because we found a theater in the back of the MGM. They closed the theme park and there was an empty theater and Martin sees an empty theater and just he smells it empty theater, empty theater, going in and putting on a show on our honeymoon. We were in the hotel and he'd go in the conference room. We could do a show here. I mean, he's just like, that's what he does. He found this theater and we found an old set that had been in the back of the theater and we produced a synth we got a syndicator a syndicated show called Ask Rita and I think we did like a 60 episodes. We were doing five episodes a week. It was five episodes a day and four weeks to get them all done. And Steve Martin was very nice. And he came in he did two of our shows. That's really cool. was a fun show. It was people write comedians, letters about problems they're having in their lives and we make fun of them. Funny, I got a lot of good people to do it. Betty White did it. Phyllis Diller did it how Evandale and and they were funny shows but it just at that point we did all we could do it was a homemade show. Even if it was syndicated. We would Martin This is how we did it Martin and I we get all the tapes together and satellite them himself around the country at night and using the local television station. And there came a point when we had this You know, we're exhausted, we didn't do it anymore. And they ripped down the theater. And then the next theater we found was too expensive. And we said, you know, the world is telling us not to do this anymore. So we stopped doing it.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:08

Does it exist anywhere? I tried to find it. I just found like a 32nd monologue of you on YouTube, like

Rita Rudner 45:14

in a garage, we have them in our garage. We can't put them on because it's for everyone was a SAG AFTRA, and we would have to go back and we would need to do it legally and pay everybody the fees and go back. It is not

Jeff Dwoskin 45:27

unless it got stolen and

Rita Rudner 45:29

up. Yeah. And somebody will have to do it. But I don't want anyone to be angry at me.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:36

I'm not saying leave the door open at three o'clock.

Rita Rudner 45:39

We had some funny shows. Let me tell you.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:42

It was unfortunate to read a part about when Leno took over the Tonight Show and Helen Kushner? Yeah, he

Rita Rudner 45:47

wasn't he's been friendly with me since but he just was I was it was his manager. And they didn't want anyone who was a Johnny guest. And she was a very aggressive woman, I think is the way to say Helen talked about Helen Kushner, right. And he knew what she wanted and she wanted it the way she wanted it. And she was gonna tell you exactly the way she wanted it. And she didn't want me. She said here Johnny guests and you're just the kind of guests we don't want on the show. I said, Okay, it's not the on the show.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:14

I got the impression it was all Helen I didn't I'm Jay everyone says is the nicest guy in the world. And maybe it was just being manipulated and stuff like that. I don't

Rita Rudner 46:23

know the I don't know the inner workings of what went on. All I know is Helen Kushner got on the phone and in no uncertain terms told me that I should do something to myself.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:33

Not a nice woman. You were the first woman to sit on the Dyess at the Friars Club for the Chevy Chase roast.

Rita Rudner 46:41

I certainly was and it was a horrifying experience. And I got a huge migraine and I again, because I always say yes, when it's something that's interesting that I haven't done before, even if it scares me. And that scared me. And I did it. Because Dennis and I did it. And he sat next to me because we were such good friends. And he would just keep going and saying, Rita, what are we going to do? This is a very strange and I said, I don't know, at least you swear, you know, I don't know what I'm going to do. I decided to get up and swear but swearing correctly was the only thing I could do. And I just said I said I was going to do my act, but I was going to intersperse obscenities where I thought I could. And I did that. And it went over really big. And it was very funny. And I said and I never want to do this again. Thank you very much because they were really dirty. I mean, it was under the guise of raising money but they had to have me to maintain their tax status because they had to have women and they'd never had a woman before so I was the one that picked to help them with their taxes

Jeff Dwoskin 47:39

are there you go? Lucky me. Lucky you.

Rita Rudner 47:43

Sometimes I say yes. It works out. Sometimes I say yes. It doesn't work.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:46

I like that is that as it was sort of like your mantra that we have through the book that you like to say yes, more than No,

Rita Rudner 47:53

absolutely. I say say yes to you know, things that world that makes sense. Not things like skiing or racquetball say yes to other things. That makes sense.

Jeff Dwoskin 48:04

Oh, wow. Amazing. Well, I mean, there's a million other stories, but I'll leave them for someone else to kind of dive in and cherry pick with you. But I loved your book. And it's called I'll hold it up here it is the book. Yes. Read our Ragnar my life and dog years.

Rita Rudner 48:20

It's because it's divided up into my five dogs and one of my dogs is right. Is he she here? No, she was sleeping under the desk, but I could introduce you to Betsy. She's my latest little rescue. And she's a great dog. Betsy. Come here, baby. Betsy, come here. Let's see if she listens to me. I said she was found on the streets of Hollywood with a broken leg and an unproduced screenplay. Here she is.

Jeff Dwoskin 48:42

Oh, that's he's on the cover of the book. I know.

Rita Rudner 48:45

And she weighed seven pounds, and she was so weak and she couldn't eat or she couldn't play and now she's a hefty 12 and a half pounds and she doesn't stop and she ran right in when I told her that so at least have to have a dog and she's a little bit nervous. So I'm her emotional support human.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:03

I love how the book is broken up into the time you have for your dogs because it's that's so relatable in itself just how everyone remembers the animals, whether it be a dog or any animal in that particular life, but it's it was great. I really love that my dog is a little Maltese. I have a four pound Oh boy. Named Lola. Always

Rita Rudner 49:21

good to have a dog Lola. Oh, that's, I love that name. That's good. And Doc Severinsen had a really really like Bulldog like a bully bully Bulldog that came in. And her name was Lily. And I thought it was such a good name for a bulldog and when I did the tonight show ducks Evans and would always come in with Lily.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:39

Ah, I do love the story about tie your your one dog was part of your act for so many years. Oh, bonkers.

Rita Rudner 49:46

Yeah. All the casinos. He's the only dog that I had who smoked a cigar and read backstage variety. He was born to be in show business. More stories. That's why the book is all about Pay that's what all the writings on all the pages

Jeff Dwoskin 50:02

that's an amazing book. I loved it. Thanks for sharing out advanced copy with me thanks to Martin for hooking me up. Good to know Martin.

Rita Rudner 50:11

Martin comm say you don't want to say hello he never wants to say hello. Okay, just Yeah. Hello and you pretty English accent there was Helen. I love

Jeff Dwoskin 50:18

accents. Read. This has been a pleasure and it's been an honor. Thank you.

Rita Rudner 50:25

Thank you for talking to me. I appreciate it. And thank you for taking the time to read my book.

Jeff Dwoskin 50:30

All right, how amazing was Rita Rudner checkout Rita online at Rita rudner.com. Definitely get her book my life and dog years is a lot of other books that readers written you can dive into those as well. When Rita comes to town, definitely don't miss the opportunity to see her live one of the funniest people in the world. All right, well, with the interview over, I can only mean one thing, guys, right? It's not ever another trending hashtag and the family of hashtags and a hashtag around. Download the free always free hashtag roundup app at the iTunes App Store or Google Play Store. tweet along with us and one day one of your tweets may show up in a future episode of glass and conversations fame and fortune awaits you. This episode's hashtag is #BroadwayForDogs the ultimate Broadway dog mashup game brought to us by sneaky environment tags, a weekly Game On hashtag Roundup, obviously inspired by our amazing guests, Rita Rudner, who got her started on Broadway who loves her dogs who knew there'd be a hashtag out there mashing them all up #BroadwayForDogs, tweet your own. Tag us on Twitter at Jeff Dwoskin show. We'll show you some Twitter love. In the meantime, here's some #BroadwayForDogs tweets for inspiration. Little Shop of Howlers, then the shop shopper howlers kinky barks rock of snot sausages, I can't see the color purple Best in Show about these are some amazing #BroadwayForDogs tweets The Color Purple Hello Cali Avenue pew My Fair Lady in the tramp might side story that King Charles and I #BroadwayForDogs. We're not done Damn your kidneys that live on the woof barefoot in the bark Beagle juice. Mary Poppins we need to add a Borg as line and our final and our final #BroadwayForDogs tweet chasing cats. Oh right. Go tweet your own #BroadwayForDogs tweet. All these are retweeted at Jeff Dwoskin show show them some Twitter love.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:43

Well with the hashtag over and the interview over it can only mean one thing. That's right episode 180 has come to a close I can't believe it just flew by. I want to thank my very special guest, Rita Rudner. And of course, I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

CTS Announcer 53:05

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Classic conversations. If you like what you heard, don't be shy and give us a follow on your favorite podcast app. But also, why not go ahead and tell all your friends about the show? You strike us as the kind of person that people listen to. Thanks in advance for spreading the word and we'll catch you next time on classic conversations.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai