#178 The Cigarette Smoking Man William B. Davis is Ready to Upload The The X-Files

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All right, Julian, thank you so much for that on my amazing introduction, you got the show going each and every week, and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody, to Episode 178 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. As the smoke begins to clear you'll be able to see that this conversation is set to classic. My guest today is William B. Davis. That's right. William B. Davis, actor, director, author, uh, you know, and love him as cigarette smoking man on the X-Files. If the truth is out there, we're gonna find it. My conversation with William B. Davis is coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds, let's shine a light on last week's episode with comedian Wendy Liebman one of the funniest people of all time, do not miss that amazing conversation. You'll love it. You know what else you're gonna love? My conversation with William B. Davis. We talk all about his book on acting and life directing, acting, and of course, the X-Files. Enjoy. Alright, everyone, I want to introduce you to my next guest, actor, director, author of on acting and life currently can be seen in the Amazon series upload, but he lives in our hearts or rather haunts her dreams as the cigarette smoking man from The X-Files. If the truth is out there. We're gonna find it. Welcome to the show. William Davis. Whoa.

William B. Davis 2:10

How are you? Good. How

Jeff Dwoskin 2:12

are you so much to talk about, but I am fascinated by your book, and everything you've done, but the one thing that kind of caught me off guard, which is the nice thing about kind of when you dive into someone who you're gonna meet, and kinda like, water skiing champ. Oh my god. I was obsessed. I watched the whole video What got you and skiing and not just water skiing champion slalom. You could do on one ski. I can't even I can't even get up on two skis.

William B. Davis 2:44

Yeah, it's funny. I mean, I love water ski, you know, as a kid on the lake in Ontario had Muskoka and thought I was really hot stuff, but I really didn't know anything about it. And then when I went to England to study for theater, and I was working there, I had been, I've been a real snow skier. But I, what am I going to do now there are no mountains, there's no snow. So I found some water ski clubs that it was all much more organized. And there, I found out that what a slalom course was and then I had no idea how to run it. And what a trick ski was and I had no idea how to stand up on it everybody and turn it or do anything with. So in the absence of snow skiing, I started to waterskiing. And then when I came back to Canada, I connected to water skiing in Montreal and Quebec with Clint Ward, who was the coach of the national team at the time, and just one thing led to another and opportunities to really, really work at the craft of waterskiing and see what its potential was

Jeff Dwoskin 3:40

it's funny, because when you when you're like preparing for something like this is like that just popped right out, and I'm like, completely unexpected.

William B. Davis 3:49

I know and that I still skiing, you know, I mean, I'm in my 80s and people are still a little wet. You still is waterski Yeah, I still do that to the same level that I did even five years ago, but still ski

Jeff Dwoskin 4:01

that's an inspiration one skier to skis these days. Well,

William B. Davis 4:04

it's always one ski for Islam, okay. It's pretty well one ski for figure skating. Do we call it trick skiing? I don't jump anymore and that was on two skis when we jump but but I still slalom and I still do some tricks skiing. So that's all on one ski. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 4:18

I know nothing about sports. So okay. Okay, right. I should have Googled what's

William B. Davis 4:25

the YouTube there's a YouTube video. Be waterskiing so people could check it out and see what it is. I actually did do about 20 years ago.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:33

Oh, it's fascinating. It's worth every second everyone I'll put a link I'm gonna put a link to that in the show notes for sure. Everyone deserves to see that. Oh man, awesome. So I write your book on acting and life and I enjoyed it very much on a broken into two parts. Yep. Acting and

William B. Davis 4:52

and basically a biography memoir of mine of my life in acting, whether it was as an actor or a director or an actor. teacher but

Jeff Dwoskin 5:00

this is your second at least your second book. Right? Yeah. musings of cigarette smoking. Yeah. Where there's smoke or there's smoke?

William B. Davis 5:08

Yeah, with the first one. Yeah. The first one really quite a personal memoir. The second is a much more professional dealing with my life as a professional and dealing and dealing with, in a sense, a masterclass on acting.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:20

I dove into both. It was fun. Yeah. William Davis Center for actor studies. What as an actor, what led you to want to teach and pass on

William B. Davis 5:30

I've always been a teacher, I've always I remember my grade 13 teacher saying, Wow, this, this Bill Davis, he's obviously a teacher that could tell by the way, I explained things in class, and whatever. Anyway, it's always come naturally to me to communicate, I guess, teaching of acting is fascinating because it connects you with the student, and what their process is, and what's going on in that life and connects you in with the material that they're trying to work with. So it's always an exploration of human life. How do we live? What do we do when we live? And how do we give expression to it and teaching allows me in a strange way to do things as a director, I can't do. I mean, for instance, I was a assistant director on national theatres of Great Britain, production of Miss Julie with Maggie Smith, and Maggie Smith, who was doing a lot of her tricks in those rehearsals. And the director, patiently, patiently took time to take those tricks away, and bring her to a real truth, which was marvelous. As a teacher, though, I could just say to Maggie, Maggie, you're indicating Maggie, we have to act in a different way, we have to work differently. But you can't say that, as a director, you can't say that to a working actor, they have their way of working, but to a student who wants to learn how to be a better actor than you can dig deeper, but that's part of the fascination. The book leads you into a deeper exploration of what the actor does.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:54

Do you believe anyone can be a good actor, like I don't believe I can dance good no matter how

William B. Davis 6:59

I don't believe that. Just watch Chris Carter's tiny performance and in X-Files, these wooden is awkward, many knows very well, this is not his met, you know, there are there is such a thing as talent. And there is such a thing as I think as exposure, I think, you know, exposure at an early age, as in so many activities, you learn to read well, you'll learn to speak well, because of the environment that you grew up in whatever. So there are a lot of chance factors that then you can teach a lot you can there's quite a lot of development that can happen by learning the craft. It's the same with some I mean, you're not a sports fan. So giving you sports images may not help. But listeners who do know hockey may know of Connor McDavid, who is a superstar hockey player. And so many, so many people in the whole country have trained as hard as he has been exposed to the same things that he has, but can never reach the skill level that he has. And I think that applies to acting as well.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:01

Sure. I totally get that. Yeah. See, I'm a good actor. No, I get that that makes that make sense. So so when you watch somebody who's an amazing actor, but gives a bad performance is that the director is that just is that kind of a sometimes they couldn't be the words on the page the way they were directed? Because you see that right? Somebody who can win an award and the next minute, you're like, Hey, get me out of here.

William B. Davis 8:28

Yeah, it can definitely, definitely the director can make can make a difference. I noticed it in the theater even more than I noticed it in film, where you see an actor playing an attitude or playing a quality, you immediately think of the director wants this kind of character. And it said you are this kind of character. So I'm going to play this kind of character. So I'm an evil man. So I'm going to play evil, and it becomes very general and unspecific, whereas you have to, if you could be an evil character, but you have to find what makes you be an evil character, you have to find the specificity of that behavior. I'm being an evil character on Upload. I didn't know I was when it started. I thought I was a nice friendly neighbor. But it turns out I'm not

Jeff Dwoskin 9:07

know the $50 billion dollars is a nice person.

William B. Davis 9:12

Exactly right. Wait, so

Jeff Dwoskin 9:14

don't play a character. That's one of your three don'ts. They read the book, say I read the book. Which is part of the the advice that you give, which is this was it was I'm ready to be an actor after reading the book. I'm ready to just go out there. Yeah, go for it. No, but I did think it was fascinating how it's you like you just described it. But the point of view that can take out a good performance or ruin a performance if they're if they're trying. Yeah.

William B. Davis 9:41

And the actor themselves may may have made a decision that actually doesn't work. I mean, they may have tried to track a trajectory that is not in full harmony with the text that they have to play so that they're in conflict with the words they have to speak or they're trying to make the words they have to speak mean something Different than they actually mean, you know, so things like that can happen. For me one of the things that doesn't work for me, although, look, there are actors who are brilliant that it is to have a picture of a real person and try to imitate that person. Yeah, I mean, I just read somebody talking about descriptions of great actors and actresses who have failed when they shouldn't have and one incidentally, Oscar winning Meryl Streep as Margaret Thatcher. And this person said, as I said, What I saw it is, is that this is not Meryl Streep at her best. This is Meryl Streep showing she's a good mimic. But she's not playing a real person.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:35

Got it? Is that the Iron Lady? Yeah. Okay, I get that I totally get that. It's a good observation. And you think the director can't tell Meryl?

William B. Davis 10:45

That I don't know. Or the director could have pushed her in that direction? Who knows? I mean, that's one of the mysteries about our business, or our industry or our profession is you really don't know what the director did. And a director could be seamless, totally, totally unaware of the director, and they can have created something brilliant,

Jeff Dwoskin 11:03

I loved. And your book, both books, I think you tell the story. Is it my kids growing up with our plays in the basement all the time? And we go to their friends come over? And they would do you know, they're made up plays, but you took that to a different level? You kind of turn that into a full time career.

William B. Davis 11:23

Yeah, we actually did start in my book, we actually did that with my cousins, we did exactly what you're saying. And, you know, made up our own place and invited her relatives to see them. But what's described in the book is that my cousins who were a half a generation older, were actually running a real Theatre Company. I mean, it was a real Theatre Company, that summer stock company where they paid the actors and whatever. But they rehearsed in our basement, before they went north for the summer. So we had actors around us all the time. And then when they needed to, I can't remember what I was 10 or 11, or whatever. But a boy of that age, I was convenient. So boom, they brought me in to play that role that first year. And then after that, I played one role as summer for several years with them.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:08

I might have got that from Where's where there's smoke. Yes, definitely. And where there's smoke. Yeah, the X-Files is when you like, blew up, right? You became like, right, yeah. The interesting thing about cigarette smoking, man, that character is you're in your 50s when this happened, right? Yeah. Which is fair to say later than most actors find that wind, right. So but it's, but it's great. So you are an inspiration. All right, exactly. Sorry to interrupt, we got to take a quick break. I also want to thank all of you for your support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my amazing conversation with William Davis. We're about to dive into his path to the X-Files. And we're back by I mean you had done you've done a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff. deadzone cutting room floor first thing SCTV I saw that is a credit. You did kind of a voice on that Airwolf. Look who's talking it 21 Jump Street the commish. MacGyver, so you're all over the place before

William B. Davis 13:14

Yeah, I mean, I was working kind of contract actor. I mean, I was running my acting school at the time. And I'd had a long career as a theater director both in England and in Quebec, and in Toronto, and eventually in Vancouver for 20 years, I didn't act at all, I was a director, acting teacher, but I didn't actually put myself out as an actor. It wasn't until I was in a moment of transition, I guess. And I got a grant to study acting teachers because as an acting teacher, I wanted to know more what other acting teachers were doing, I thought a good way to find out was just to take their classes, don't just watch them, but actually take them and thought, oh, I can actually do this better than I thought I could. So at that point, I thought well, by doing all these other things, but then I got an agent and started going out for things and gradually doing more and more work and getting larger and larger roles until till I auditioned for this part with no lines called the x five.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:10

When people meet you do they assume you're this evil conniving person because that character is so ingrained, because here's, here's what I'll say out, you know who Ronnie Cox, he was in deliverance, but he was also like, the bad guy and Robocop and in Total Recall, played the nice guy, and then he became the bad guy. And so when I was getting ready to talk to him, just like he always like, you have that evil character in your head, but you're like, one of the nicest people ever. And so I was like, but two people like expect

William B. Davis 14:39

it's variable. I mean, I remember once early on being in an elevator and somebody just hadn't noticed today we're standing beside and they looked at me and they cowered in fear said you look like that man from The X-Files. And I said, Well, actually I am the man from The X-Files, and then they switched all together when God the friends don't come and get out. graphs. But But yes, I think I think there was some intimidation effect in very quickly, but very quickly it goes away because I very quickly smile and smoking man Greer. So that helped it Yes, curious. But the other thing that I found curious was just the reaction to being being a star or being at least sort of famous because I've been around actors all my life. And as I say, I had worked when I was young, with Vinnie and Maggie Smith and some of the greats of the British theatre. I was never overly impressed. I was always admiring, but the first time I really noticed it, I was in a, in a electronics shop. And the the server, the salesperson was standing beside me and figured out who I was. Thing was even before we did selfies, but but he was shaking, like he was physically shaking to be standing beside me. I mean, what's that about? You know, because I've seen it often since then that kind of vibration that happens when you're in the face of somebody who's someone you've seen kind of up there, but not really seen them as a, as an actual person. So that's always interesting.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:12

I understand that feeling. I've, you know, it's something when you watch somebody on TV, and it's such an indelible character like it, like it connects, and I mean, this is X-Files, and it's run. And, you know, it's still hugely popular, but I mean, global phenomenon. So I mean, like, right, so you're and like, your larger, larger than life. I mean, there's a lot of famous people that the time I'm sure on popular shows, but I mean, x miles was it, you know, the lexicon, everything it was, I mean, it's just part of culture. And it's like, You're the main back.

William B. Davis 16:43

It was, it was back in the day to before the audience sort of got fragmented as it is now. So now, I mean, there's lots of great shows, but they're not watched by the same number of people at the same time, we'd like we had 20 million people watching it at the same time. That doesn't happen now.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:01

No, yeah. Now, there's just way too much sometimes you can I, we, my friends and I were talking about a show that Julia Roberts was on and like, none of us had heard of it. Like, how was Julie Roberts on a TV show for 10 episodes? And there was, there was a time where that just would not have happened. Can you talk to me about like, I know you originally for The X-Files, auditioned for a different part and but then ended up with the roll that changes.

William B. Davis 17:27

And, you know, in truth, I still don't know when I did that audition. I shouldn't say sometimes even remembers, but yes, I read Brent different role, but the part that they cast me and had no line, so maybe they were just wanting to maybe that was the part that you always wanted before, but just needed to see me do something. Or maybe I was in fact auditioning for the senior FBI. He didn't they gave me this part. Instead, I have no idea what their thinking was. But

Jeff Dwoskin 17:53

I think I read this again, might have been where they smoke, but like I because he I think he went a little deeper into the X-Files, but like, they never actually had a book and a full plan.

William B. Davis 18:03

No, exactly. Yeah, they didn't have a plan. You know, it started off with kind of individual episodes about individual things that people believe in, that are a bit weird and imagined that they're actually true. And see where that went. And then Julian got pregnant. So that was awkward. So what are they going to do with this pregnant Scully? And they thought, well, we'll have her abducted by aliens. And they're implanting something, whatever that mean, the whole kind of conspiracy, forgotten what we call the call that holes Ark developed kind of on its own, and my character developed unexpectedly, one of the authors have created a great scene for me with Mulder in the second episode, and kind of they did that on their own, not really in conjunction with a with a so called show runner. So this went forward and everybody liked it. And they liked the character. And so they started to do more and more and more and more.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:03

It talked about how it from season to season, it kept growing and by season two, your coach dying, not featuring. Yeah, right. After acting. I know, directing is probably what's really in your heart and soul, but like it feels now that you're acting, and in this part of the timeline, are you like, oh, wow, I mean, because everyone doesn't get that type of role where

William B. Davis 19:25

it's true. It was, it was a good bit of luck, I have to admit, I mean, I'll credit myself for taking advantage of the luck when it happened. But lots of people have not been so lucky. I mean, I say that in my book, both David and Julian to I mean, mean they've both gone on to fascinating careers since The X-Files in very different directions. But X-Files was a huge break for those two. They were not the only actors considered those jobs, and they got them off the wind. You mentioned

Jeff Dwoskin 19:52

you. In your first book, you enjoyed watching the evolution of the acting of David decarbing A nice amount of fun.

William B. Davis 20:01

Yeah. Well, I mean, mileage is great for an actor. I mean, you know, we all got better. We all did. But because I stood in corners and watched people a lot as, as the character, I was kind of more, perhaps attuned to, as an acting teacher to watching how they're acting was,

Jeff Dwoskin 20:19

but during the X-Files run I used you're still teaching. Yeah,

William B. Davis 20:23

I was running my I was running the acting school for quite a few years during the shooting of the X-Files. Eventually, it got too much. Eventually, the whole X-Files thing was too much. And I could not run the school, I could still teach there from time to time, the actual running over and I had to pass on to others.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:40

And then season two enough with the cigarettes.

William B. Davis 20:45

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Good. Well, you know, in the first, the first season, they, they said, you know, we've got these herbal cigarettes, and we've got these real cigarettes, which would you like, and I had quit smoking 17 years earlier. So I wasn't really worried about that. And I thought, Well, I'm a real actor, so I'll have real cigarettes. Oh, give me a real cigarette. So then that small role had a real cigarette, then they invited me back to do one another, another episode A few months later in a real cigarette in a very small role. And then I found myself sitting at home wishing they would call me for that x file. So again, so I could smoke some more. And then, you know, no more of these real cigarettes. So we switched to the herbal ones after that, which are awful, but they're not addictive. The way they're addicted. We all hate them. Everybody hates them, even everybody. The whole crew hates them. Because no goes through the whole studio when you're smoking.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:40

So you actually took you combat at smoking during the height of that took advantage of your notoriety with the Canadian Cancer Society?

William B. Davis 21:49

Yeah, no, no, I did some some appearances to discourage people from smoking. There was motivated further by by my older brother actually died of lung cancer and from being a heavy smoker. Um, so so it wasn't hard for me to get behind that, that cause and

Jeff Dwoskin 22:05

oh, sorry about that long time ago now. So all right, so everyone hates you because you're making them smell of herbal sick.

William B. Davis 22:14

Oh, dear. Oh,

Jeff Dwoskin 22:17

maybe maybe no bad guys in this episode, Chris Carter. I had so now it's this was a fox show. Right? So it's, I can't remember at the time of how big or small Fox was not Fox Mulder, a Fox TV?

William B. Davis 22:32

No, it was it was definitely the Jr. Network. Yeah. People have said actually did had it not been the Jr. Network, it would never have survived. They were playing Friday night. And we can because they were saying that Jr. Network. Not so much was expected of a show on a Friday night. It was the fans who got behind it. That whole kind of core fan built up and was just the early stages of the internet. And they started connecting with each other through the internet, and the whole fan base developed and got stronger and stronger. And then finally after I guess, three, I think it was three years before it actually went to Sunday night and actually became big stuff. Yeah, some people think that if they put that show out, just like that at the beginning and got that audience, it would have stopped after just a few episodes. But but because clocks kept going.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:22

Yeah, there's a small called audience now when people they would probably be a little more dismissive of it. Yeah. Yeah. But then yeah, that kind of just catapulted it. So Julian's pregnancy, the other side effect of that was you but your character gained a little more prominence as they were getting that toxic? Well, yeah, the interesting thing I read is that in season three, I read a crisis of consciousness about being on The X-Files that potentially it was anti science, pushing the anti science habit of thought was that that's something you still kind of thank or was it just at the moment?

William B. Davis 23:58

Well, it was a very interesting situation. One of my great idols in science was Richard Dawkins. And his book, The Selfish Gene kind of really changed how I, how I look at life, and I'd read everything he'd ever written. And I think it was in 96, I can't remember he gave a lecture in which he did more than criticize the X-Files. He thought The X-Files was a dangerous thing to have, because it was promoting pseudoscience, as he said that, you know, with almost every episode, some idea was put forward of something as pseudo scientific and Mulder supported this pseudo scientific idea and Skelly supported the other and every time we'll do one every time the pseudo science thing one out. And so therefore, Dawkins concluded that it would encourage people to think that of the validity of pseudoscience and yes, this was a sub point of a crisis of conscience because I was just going really well, everything was going great. And this my, my hero tells me, this is a bad thing. So what do I do? Well, strangely, it was interesting to me that Dawkins, his idea was purely a priori, he had no evidence, and he's a great believer on evidence says I have to have evidence what he had none, that it actually made people believe pseudoscience, more because the people watching it knew it was a story. They knew it was fiction, that was not a documentary. I knew fiction. And as it happens, many people in the skeptical movement, were great fans of the show. And I would go to conventions of X file fans. And I would ask them, Well, how many of you believe you know that we're that there are aliens among us? Or have we been abducted by aliens? And I wouldn't, there wouldn't be some that did. But the amount that did reflected the same proportion as in the general population from polls that people have done, and so there was no evidence that these people were more likely to believe in pseudo science because they watched the show. Anyway, I can go on to

Jeff Dwoskin 26:09

thank goodness. All right. Sorry to interrupt this amazing conversation with William Davis. Gotta take a quick break. And we're back with my amazing guest, William Davis, about to dive into how his own skepticism was received by the X-Files fan base. And we're back. You mentioned, skepticism, I found something you were challenged by fans because you didn't believe in paranormal or aliens. And so did that cause a rift with the fan base

William B. Davis 26:37

only with, you know, elements, because, as I say, lots of skeptics are in the fan base as well. But yes, people were surprised not not understanding how my profession works. They, they assumed like chosen to be an X-Files because I believed in these things. So they invited me to go on skywalks and we can see we're gonna see something tonight or they would bring me the latest information on area 51. Better than assuming I was just anxious to know what was going on. But ya know, to me, it was all it's always the whole story. It was all fiction. What, what?

Jeff Dwoskin 27:16

And then I read your favorite episode was to Letha Kumi. Yeah. Is it because you made a deal get to get cured of your lung cancer?

William B. Davis 27:28

Well, yeah, it was was actually an idea that David promoted based on a dusty Nevsky book. The kind of debates that I had within that story were fascinating. With the imprisoned alien was kind of a level of intellectual combat. That was fascinating to me. It was also the episode where I flirted with mother's mother and we talked about her husband and how he wasn't a very good waterski or things like that.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:00

Did you say that because of your waterskiing. Did they work that little detail and

William B. Davis 28:04

Chris always wanted to get me actually on skis in an episode, and he kept threatening to do that. The other writers talked him out of it apparently,

Jeff Dwoskin 28:12

probably because they watched happy days. I knew what that turned out for the Fonz jumping

William B. Davis 28:20

in but anyway, there's a line in that for I say something about he was a good water skier. Not as good as islands but not as good in some other ways to

Jeff Dwoskin 28:33

you dog you by season four now you're also starring that's it. These are the credits This is the evolution right? So it's just a character is becoming bigger and bigger. And this is musings of a smokey man, that episode is now this season, where we get your backstory, which is fascinating. You killed JFK, you killed Martin Luther King Jr.

William B. Davis 28:57

Maybe Maybe I don't believe anything.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:02

I believe everything I see. I know you it was interesting, because when I was reading some notes that you had on this, how it didn't necessarily keep in line with the current story, the backstory that been up to that point. And we eventually

William B. Davis 29:14

we thought that the fans maybe not but we doing it thought of it is as this is Froelich his idea of the smoking ban. This is his idea of his story. So that we weren't beholden to that forever and ever. We didn't finally have to have the smoking man actually arrested for having assassinated President or whatever.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:35

Got it. And then what was you did not want the bills to win the Super Bowl to win? Do we know why that was?

William B. Davis 29:42

Oh, I'm gonna have fun with that this year. The bills are good this year. I have friends in Northern New York State. You were anxious for me to really lift that curse. And every time they fail, I say sorry, I told you.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:57

It did say that means you're around that now. not going to win. So now we have movies you did the movie did you like to in the movies? Did you like the standalone movies, they weren't as big ahead, I think as the show itself. But

William B. Davis 30:11

the first one was better than the second, I thought, right? Of course, I was in the first one and not in the second. So that may have something to do with it, it was interesting. And a lot of ways because we took so much more time through is just, you know, a lot more waiting a lot more. So didn't necessarily translate into better opportunities for us. But what was unfortunate for me is that I had a great scene in the movie, I think it can't remember whether it was with Skinner, who it was actually with, but it was a really good scene. And they had to take it out of the movie, because when they played it to focus groups who didn't know the series, but were just watching the movie for the first time. They didn't get it, they didn't know what that scene was about. So rather than being faithful to the fans, they were faithful to the new viewer, and decided they had to take that scene out not only have to take it out, they had to bring me in to play scenes that would justify taking it out. So had to actually go and take out my own scene. That's brutal. Yeah. Yes, I know.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:11

You think it could work. The opposite way, though to the argument would be put something and they don't understand to get them to go watch.

William B. Davis 31:18

Exactly. And of course, we made that argument. But yeah, we didn't have much influence.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:24

So how did you feel about it dying and coming back so many times? I have a favorite death. So I have a friend Jeff Freeman. And he's he's obsessed. He's hardcore all the way back. But he sent me some questions. I was like diving into like the all the almost dying times. As I dug into it, I realized it was every time you die. In the show, they thought the show was gonna be over. And they were kind of wrapping it up. Yeah, it was written as that was the possibility like, like, end of season seven. They didn't know if there's gonna be a season eight so and the company was leaving. And so they just wrote it as a potential series finale. And that sort of became an ongoing thing that they did.

William B. Davis 32:07

No, it's true. It's true. I mean, yeah. When I was, I guess it was, well, season nine when I was blown up by a cruise missile. I mean, it's great seen a missile coming at me. And I mean, anybody who has ever survived a cruise missile, direct hit,

Jeff Dwoskin 32:24

I know. Well, yeah. David.

William B. Davis 32:29

So, I mean, who knew that there would be the reboot, you know, so this was, you know, well of years later, when they did the reboot, and they wanted to smoking that they needed to smoking that so they had to bring me to life and they had done makeup they had to put in to show me in the hospital after being hit with the missa was quite brutal. But gradually, gradually, they brought me back to life. So now they think I did at the end of the read the reboot, I was shot and pushed in the water to drown at the end of episode 11. But I told Chris at the time, I'm not dead. That was a hologram. That wasn't me anyway. Okay. So if we ever do Episode 13, or whatever it will be, maybe I can still come to life, but I don't think it'd be anymore. But

Jeff Dwoskin 33:16

I enjoy. Is it considered a reboot? Or was it just a late season? Because it didn't ever all the originals? Were back? I enjoyed it a lot when they brought it. Yeah,

William B. Davis 33:24

no, you could just be late season. Yeah. That was

Jeff Dwoskin 33:27

that was one of the really good one. So you know, if they bring it back, though, they have to they have now they've established a pattern? They would have,

William B. Davis 33:36

they would have Julian would do it. I think I mean, I think Chris Carter would like to do it. David would do it. I would do it. But Julian's doing other stuff.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:44

She's too busy winning awards is Margaret Thatcher and the crown and all that kind of stuff. Okay. The other question was, how much was David acting? And how much? Is he just playing himself? David to cover any?

William B. Davis 33:55

Well, if you read my book, which you have, there's not necessarily a difference. What is that? I mean, he's making it his own. He's doing I don't know what what you would want to be different is, I mean, it's a common thing that people say, Oh, this actor can only play themselves. Whereas this actor can play a whole range of things. And and that can be true, but you can't judge David on that. Because the the character was similar to him. So playing from himself was true. And was natural.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:25

That works for me. Yeah. When you read the script, as you think, for musings as, as a smoking man, did you did you like Oh, no one's gonna buy me killing JFK, or I was Thanks.

William B. Davis 34:37

It was even more than that. Because there were things in that script that were I can't remember what the world now but they were in conflict with what we'd already established. I mean, so something's not true either. What's in this scripture of what we did last season? So how do we justify that? And eventually, as I say, in our minds, we justified it by saying what is Froakie story? Ah, this isn't this is a great revelation with the X-Files of whose cigarette smoking man really is apparent because in that in their original episode, before Chris changed it, they actually had me killed for it, they had me actually shoot at the end of that episode and kill him. And that would have been the end of the lone gunman. And this was, I mean, they went on to be in five more episodes to have a whole spin off series of their own. I mean, all of them would have been shot dead. If we played the original script that they submitted to. Well,

Jeff Dwoskin 35:33

I'm sure he's happy you did not kill Han. So question for you upload can't be the answer to this. We'll talk about that in a second. Besides the X-Files, like what what are the ones that you get recognized for? Or are some of your favorite things that you've done, besides the X-Files on TV or film we'll continue

William B. Davis 35:53

on would be one, which was, I don't know how widely it was seen. But it was, you know, a fascinating story and a fascinating role to play. And one of the beauties for us was that it was set in Canada. So I didn't have to try to sound American I could actually sound Canadian. So we like that. So continuing would be high on my list. A much less than even lesson on series was the first season of something called rubs and arms in which I played a crotchety old guy, a little ages to actually because he was old, he was in his 70s, he was younger than I am now but incapable of doing the washing or doing anything. This is with Margot Kidder did that so she was my wife. So that was fun to do.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:39

Oh, one last X-Files thing. And let's talk about upload is the last piece of trivia for X-Files that I have is you are only one of three actors from the X-Files that was in first episode and the final episode in

William B. Davis 36:53

the pilot and in the final episode, yep. David Julian and me only three. Yes,

Jeff Dwoskin 36:59

I was just interviewing Loretta sweat from Mash. And the same trivia for her was harder and older, and Episode One and the final. So it's a big deal to be there the whole time. It's your, how many seasons and all that kind of stuff. So upload, let's talk about upload. You're gonna wrap it up and upload. I've been meaning to watch it. So I started watching it because I knew we were going to talk. So I started diving into it. Now I'm hooked. I'm hooked. I love it. I love it. It's such a fun show. Tell us about I know we talked a little bit about earlier. But tell us a little bit how you see your character. And I know you're filming Season Three right now. Right? Yeah, it's exciting. That keeps me going. I love it when there's new seasons already coming. It's good motivation that watch

William B. Davis 37:40

it's interesting because the way it started, or it seemed to me it started with Yes, I was a billionaire and powerful man who's bought himself in afterlife when a quite a grand one. No, but I seem to be sort of friendly. You know, Nathan would was teaching me golf and they would go duck hunting and, and but it's gradually coming out that I'm a lot more insidious than that. satire, of course, is I'm David choke. Who is David Koresh or coke? I don't know how you pronounce brothers. Yeah. And so that's the kind of idea that it spins around is that it's dark money carried to an extreme will do anything to stay in power to do and I won't, I won't tell you some of the things that you will find out eventually that I'm prepared to do to stay in power.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:33

I know you play that role. Well, so love for everyone listening who maybe hasn't started yet. It's great. I just started it's so fun. It's a it's

William B. Davis 38:44

a comedy. I mean, I wouldn't say it's a comedy. And you know, certainly part of the comedy profile of Amazon it's part of

Jeff Dwoskin 38:52

their IT satire, but it also deals it's comedy satire, but it also deals with I mean dealing with the afterlife. So there's it's an unrooted kind of deep theme to the to the show that all this is built around. And the funniest this had me rolling was you were Nathan was teaching him to cough. And I think he said like, he just spent $20,000 To teach us a golf or something like that. And you're like, I spent more on an endangered parrot sandwich. I'm just like, that's when I fell in love with the show right there. I'm like, I don't even understand how someone could have thought of that. That is so funny. So funny, man. So that's cool. And then you're filming Season Three right now. So that's awesome. William, this has been so fun. I can't thank you enough for hanging out with me. Yeah, my pleasure. Let's pitch your book one more time on acting and life. Get it at William D. davis.com. Great cover by the way, great cover.

William B. Davis 39:49

It's interesting to this. This person who's seems to be suffering under my direction at this point. We're now doing a Pinter play. And he's actually direct To me this this person

Jeff Dwoskin 40:01

appears on the cover of the book. That's awesome. That's awesome. So, William B davis.com. Has a shop there you can get autographs you can get the book get I'm sure at Amazon or anywhere that is found as well. Do you hang out on any of the social medias?

William B. Davis 40:16

We do a bit better a little Instagram a little Facebook yet. I will put

Jeff Dwoskin 40:21

links to everything right in the show notes and awesome. This is super fun. Yeah. Oh much. Thank you. I appreciate you spending this time and seeing all right, how amazing was William B. Davis. So many great stories, check out his website, William B. davis.com. Definitely check out upload on Amazon Prime. It's a super fun show. Go dive into the X-Files tweet at us at Jeff Dwoskin show let us know your favorite William B. Davis cigarette smoking man death. We're interested in hearing all about that. Check out Williams book on acting and life. It's fascinating so much William B. Davis, you can pull into your life right now. Oh, what a time to be alive. All right, with the interview over that can only mean one thing. That's right. It's time for another trending hashtag from the family of hashtags that hashtag Roundup, download the free always free hashtag roundup app at the iTunes App Store or Google Play Store. Follow us on Twitter at hashtag Roundup, tweet along with us and one day one of your tweets may show up on a future episode of Classic conversations, fame and fortune awaits you. All right, this episode's hashtag is #RejectedXFilesPlots of course chosen because of our amazing x miles conversation with William B. Davis Does cigarette smoking man himself is #RejectedXFilesPlots tweets were put in motion by Friday fine do a weekly Game On hashtag roundup simply create a plot just too crazy even for The X-Files and tweet it with #RejectedXFilesPlots. Tweet around tag us at Jeff Dwoskin show I'll show you some Twitter love in the meantime, enjoy these #RejectedXFilesPlots tweets Scully goes undercover to infiltrate the UK Government cigarette smoking man goes on a health kick and is now known as nicotine patch man, the lone gunman adopt a big dog and investigate Tales of a local amusement park haunting is our amazing #RejectedXFilesPlots tweets are not done. They discover Gilligan's Island was a prequel to last cigarette smoking man tries to quit smoking enlist the help of the lone gunman Mulder and Scully discover aliens have taken all the missing socks. I knew it. Everyone knows back raids back all right, but where have they been? It's up to Mueller and Scully to find out why that was a #RejectedXFilesPlots. Smokey man starts smoking meth and tries to convince Mulder that he's really Florida man and mobile homes are really alien vessels awaiting the command to destroy Earth. I think they would have actually taken that one pumpkin spice is a delivery system for mind controlling nanobots. The Smoky man goes cold turkey thanks to Mulder and Scully and our final #RejectedXFilesPlots tweet Mulder and alone gunmen start their own podcast. I better be huge. Oh, all right. Those are some amazing h#RejectedXFilesPlots, tweets, to drown these are all retweeted that Jeff Dwoskin Sean's on Twitter love, what would the hashtag over and the interview over? That can only mean one thing. That's right. We have come to the end of yet another episode episode 178 is coming to a close. I want to thank my special guest, William B. Davis. And of course, I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

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