#164 Mashing It Up with Loretta Swit on 50 years of M*A*S*H

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:30

All right, Jamie, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. You got this show going each and ever weakened as weak was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 164 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for another classic episode and this one is extra classic. That's right. My guest today is Loretta Swit award winning animal activist, artist and actress known worldwide for her amazing iconic role as major Margaret hula Han Hot Lips is here from TV's most honored series in the world mash. That's right. My conversation with Loretta Swit is coming up in just a few seconds. And in these few seconds. I want to remind everyone of the awesome interview from last week Bruce Ferber episode 162 Bruce Furber wrote an amazing novel recently called I buried Paul his love letter to The Beatles in music about a Beatles tribute band. Bruce Weber was also the showrunner Sabrina the Teenage Witch and home improvement. So many great stories with Bruce don't miss that episode. And right now without further ado, let's get to Loretta Swit. We're celebrating 50 years of mash. We also talk about our appearance on Captain Kangaroo hanging out with the captain himself. Her appearance on The Muppet Show The Muppet Show celebrating 46 years this month. We also talked about Loretta creating the character of Christine Cagney from Cagney and Lacey in the pilot episode of that series so much more get ready to get your mash on Get ready to learn all about sweetheart and the sweetheart animal Alliance learn how you can donate and get Lauretta is amazing art book help prevent cruelty and animal suffering so much packed into one episode. Ah, let's get to it. Enjoy. All right, I'm excited to introduce my next guest two time Emmy Award winner actress author animal activists start as major Margaret Hot Lips hula Han on the greatest TV show ever mash. Welcome to the show Loretta Swit.

Loretta Swit 2:53

Well, oh boy. I'll take that introduction. Anytime that was lovely. Thank you.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:00

Oh, my pleasure. So happy to have you. We were just talking before the show. You were having some plane troubles. And I wanted to mention if you're coming to the Motor City Comicon Yes. My plan is to be there. And so after we talk,

Unknown Speaker 3:15

right so we can meet I can have a one on one with you. Look at you and talk to you. That's always nice to put a face on a voice you know,

Jeff Dwoskin 3:23

I know I got your face. You just don't have my face. You ain't got my face. I got so much to talk about.

Unknown Speaker 3:33

You go first. It's your nickel. To say one phone calls a nickel.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:40

exciting enough. If you think like MASH. That'd be like I was that's where I'm all my focus was then I'm like, Oh, Captain Kangaroo. You were on?

Unknown Speaker 3:48

I certainly was. Yes. I was on Captain Kangaroo. I sang Scarlet ribbons. You remember that song?

Jeff Dwoskin 3:55

No, I'm not familiar with that song. But I know your voice.

Unknown Speaker 3:59

I think it was probably Harry Belafonte. But it was a lovely tune. Also, what else did I say? Oh, Ugly Duckling. You've got to know that where? When you sing it you cute. You know, like a duck. It was I love doing the show. It was wonderful. And eventually I got to do the Muppet Show. So I love that kind of thing. That kind of entertainment.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:23

I wanted to get to the Muppet Show. So don't think I wasn't fully prepared to go Muppet Show on Yeah, but like so did you get to know Mr. Greenjeans? That was my big question. Did you know The Captain of cars? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 4:35

please, man. I certainly did. What a lovely man. Oh, what a lovely man. It was those kinds of shows those intelligent, young people shows are wonderful. They're challenging their creative. I love

Jeff Dwoskin 4:50

it. I love it too, is it's everyone has one of those shows from their childhood and I loved growing up on Captain Kangaroo. Ah, so the other thing was you just you kind You got you got a little bit ahead of me, which is great. So, your lead writing, The Muppet Show, you're on The Muppet Show. And you sang on The Muppet Show that you were on mash at the time you went on The Muppet Show. And you say, the Earth moves on, I Feel the Earth Move.

Unknown Speaker 5:17

I Feel the Earth Move on the mafia, the Carole King. So

Jeff Dwoskin 5:22

yeah, it's Carole King. And it was so great. Did you love kind of going on The Muppet Show? Because you got to like, that's a whole different side. You're from the hot lips character, right? And you got to show that you can sing I mean, people who may have seen you in plays and stuff, but for mash, this was a great opportunity to kinda

Unknown Speaker 5:37

there were also a lot of television movies that were quite a world apart from Margaret Hoolahan. She was a spectacular character and and all of those characters on mash, I think they're always going to be the one character that we're all remembered for. Because it was so so special in like you were saying mash was the greatest show. I'm not supposed to say that because I was in it. But I think I agree with you. I think it has everything. And more and more. I'm finding out from fans that it held families together, they watched mash together, we used to call ourselves the world's greatest babysitters. But it was okay for kids to watch mash. We were a learning process. We weren't offensive. We didn't. You know what I'm saying? And it was good for kids to tell me as adults to say, I grew up watching your show I've had. I've had people from foreign countries tell me with with thick accents. I've learned English from you. From from watching you that must be hurt. Well, it's wonderful. It's wonderful. I think that what has happened is we're on the air this year, 50 years. And what has happened is incredible mash global family has developed because those characters are so real to the public is so real to the audience that they feel connected like a family. I have had a lot of letters to that effect. That was one that was that I kept for a while it was so moving. She was the product of a bad divorce. And her mother had to work two jobs, didn't have quality time with mom. And she said, I started looking at you like my big sister. I grew up with you and you were my big sister and the capper to that story, she became a nurse happily married and she's still talking about those days. That has to make me feel incredible what a gift that match was to people.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:43

That must be so heartwarming when you hear that and all these fans come up to you because I know you get swamped to like the cards and fan shows that you do. You must have like a million of these stories that just people just connected and resignate resignate resonate,

Unknown Speaker 8:00

resonate with I love that you're doing that Better you than me.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:06

It's always fun when simple words can't come out of your mouth.

Unknown Speaker 8:12

If you're on camera, you're an actor. It's not fun. I love radio.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:21

It's funny you say that because I eat Tony Paco is because of Jamie Farr and his

Unknown Speaker 8:27

Jamie Toledo on the map of our nation's I mean, well, first of all, he's so special and he's such a great guy. And he is so unforgettable and memorable as Max Klinger, and he's adored. He has a following I mean, people just adore him.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:47

Yeah, he's he's hilarious. I love Jamie fire was when I was I talked to Ed Asner a few months before he passed away and head and Jamie Farr were planning on doing a play.

Unknown Speaker 8:58

Yeah, they were going on tour with an absolutely wonderful play who in the world but even contemplate taking it as theirs place. He was one in a million. I knew him loved him, worked with him, adored him. And Jamie is I think not going to do it either without it. So maybe they'll they'll get two distinctly different actors from those people and make it work. It's a lovely play.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:23

I can't imagine that seeing the two of them together would have been that would have been pretty cool.

Unknown Speaker 9:28

Yeah, it was my Franklin Roosevelt's so I had that pleasure. And he was just we went to the wedding. Our director got married and we went to the wedding. And we were we were really good friends. And I knew Ed played the curmudgeon because he thought people expected of him you know, that's alright gave us I don't like your spunk or he played that he had fun with it. But to his close friends I have to tell you he was the tenderest I always say juicy he was just so Oh, tender and lovable and soft, like nothing. Any other characters he chose to play and also as a person, his humor, he kept it in that cache. You know, I always miss him. I miss him. It was a it was a big, big loss. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 10:18

it was an honor to be able to talk to him. And

Unknown Speaker 10:20

oh, yeah, and fun. I bet you had a lot of fun.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:23

I did have a lot of I had a really good time talking with him. And it's always fun to because like, you know, for my kids, and he's, like, well, you know, my kids know and love you completely differently than I do. So it's always interesting when you know, come up, and you know, that kind of stuff. But let's talk about I have an idea. Let's talk more about Loretta Swit. Okay. I'm sorry, I thought we were okay. I thought that's what we were doing. Okay, go ahead. You go. No, I'm kidding. I didn't want to I didn't want to go down too much of an ED memory lane. So many questions for you. i My time is limited. So yeah, I want to be respectful. So I want to I want to fill in as many stories as I can, because I also wanted to hear what it was like hanging out with Kermit and Miss Piggy.

Unknown Speaker 11:05

Oh, God, it was just you know, when I was going to point out when you were saying you were still in mash when you flew there to do that child to do Muppets, they put Miss Piggy in a fatigue outfit to a little little dog tags and everything. They set up this wonderful funny rivalry that she wanted to do my part and I wanted to do I do ers. It's just it was a lark. I tell you, it was absolutely wonderful. And those creative people Jim Henson and Frank Oz and it's like taking a master class and going and having fun and doing it did the job but it's no if you're growing and learning you can't help it. They're so brilliant.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:51

Oh, yeah, it was it was a funny episode. I never take I never tried an opportunity to rewatch an episode of The Muppet Show. So it was hilarious. You weren't Pigs in Space. Taken over mistake a

Unknown Speaker 12:03

pig God laugh of my laugh.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:12

I think it's awesome. Because then at the end, you got to sing with them. I think that's just that to me is

Unknown Speaker 12:18

that was oh, seven. Yes. Side by side, we sang side by side. Oh, they were so lovely. Insects. tell you how lovely they were. They gave me one of my darling little puppies at the time was overwhelmed by a herd of puppies. And they were Pekinese. And I had seen this beautiful little puppy in London. At the time, it was not so easy to just scoop her up and you know, get papers and bring her to the States or whatever. Anyhow, they arrived at my doorstep in Los Angeles holding my little and of course I called her Muppets. They were just the sweetest dearest people.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:59

That is lovely to hear. That is that's really cool. I just want to take a quick break. Thank everyone for their support of the show. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at Classic conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. And now back to my amazing conversation with Loretta Swit. We're about to talk about her creating the role of Christine Cagney and we're back. Alright, I got one. One more.

Unknown Speaker 13:26

Moving right along. Okay.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:30

So I just had Sharon glass on the podcast. Yeah. You were the very first Cagney. That's right. I when I was doing my research for the other interview, I was I oh my goodness. Loretta Swit was the original and the pilot.

Unknown Speaker 13:46

Incredible, right. And then this lovely gal replaced me.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:50

I think her name was Meg, Meg Foster, Max Foster.

Unknown Speaker 13:53

It would have been for me I thought is insanity to leave mash nachos. It's more than a show. They're my family. These are my family. And more and more as the years went on, I am alone. I was a small family to begin with. When my mom and dad left had a brother. When he passed. I really felt very alone. What happens is you have no frame of reference anymore. You can't call your brother and say Do you remember that delicatessen? We used to go to when we've ever been bla bla bla. And he's not there to say yeah, the name was blah, blah, blah. And yeah, I remember ces then we what? There's no past that you are able to hang on to except for your own memory. But you can't you can't get confirmation. So mash really has always been my family. I loved doing Christine Cagney. I'd love to creating that character. And my brother in fact called he said the audience just loves you in uniform. And then when my manager was exploring the Abeokuta Trinity see whether I would do it Fox and CBS wouldn't let me out of my contract anyway, so it was moot.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:08

Why wouldn't they let you out of your contract? But they seem to let other people out of their mash contracts? No, they didn't. Well, then Wayne leave and

Unknown Speaker 15:16

Wayne didn't have a contract when he left. Oh, people don't know that's trivia. He didn't he hadn't signed on for the next year. Acclaimed Stevenson. Yeah, Mac. Well, I understood why Mac left and how he convinced them to let him leave. And then of course, they did that wonderful episode, which was so educational, I thought for people who watched war movies where the hero never dies, and then the star never died. You know, here we had this very beloved character who dies. And the volume of mail was overwhelming. The producers of Jean and Larry told us they were overwhelmed with the response to how dare you Why did you do that to our favorite guy, and so forth. And actually, were able to take the opportunity to say, take your rage out on the people who cause war start wars of fight wars, we didn't do it. We didn't kill Mack. Mack died because of the war. The war killed Macker, you know, so it had a very good foundation to use. And I think they took advantage of that Mac went to them. He said, Matt and I were very close. And he told me that he really he said, I don't think I'll ever be in a show this good again. I'm sure I will. I said then why are you leaving Mac? He said, I really want to be number one of the shows. He had done quite a few pilots. I said, But you are, you know, regardless of your billing, you are out of the gate Mac won the Golden Globe, how do I know that are remembering he asked me to go to the Golden Globes and get the award for him. And I was able to tell everybody that they made a great choice. And he deserved it. He was great, and so forth. But he said no, I really want to be number one, and have people react to me instead of my reacting to them, you know. And anyway, I guess he really after three years, had his mind made up to keep on going and try to get his own in quote, his own show. I don't know, I always felt that mash belong to the camaraderie, the cast that it was mash. It wasn't somebody's show. I think people responded to the group to the to the cast, loved us all. And I think as much as they loved Mac Harry came in and took it over. I mean, everybody loved Harry. So I don't know. He went into the guys and said, I really feel I won't be as good anymore. If I don't leave. I want to go out kind of quote on my own. I'm not saying they were happy about it. I guess he convinced them that that's what he wanted to do. And I don't honestly know how long his contract was made for seven years. I remember that because I lost my breath. I said, I don't know what I'm gonna do for lunch tomorrow. And you want me promise you to be here for seven years. Geez, Louise,

Jeff Dwoskin 18:11

and who knew that wouldn't even be enough years? Yes, that's right. Who knew it would run three times longer than the actual war? Yeah. Did Wayne Rogers leave for a similar reason? Like he just wanted?

Unknown Speaker 18:23

No, Wayne went into another show. Immediately. He took over what was another medical show, but he was the doctor. He was the star and, and he was great house calls. Yes. Thanks. Yes. That was it, sir.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:37

which coincidentally was the show then that Sharon glass went on? And then that got cancelled, and that allowed her to become Christine Cagney. Well, no, she

Unknown Speaker 18:46

didn't go no, no, I

Jeff Dwoskin 18:47

know. I mean, like once that show got canceled, and then they didn't want Meg Foster anymore.

Unknown Speaker 18:51

Meg Foster was already doing mine. But But also, I guess her husband was the producer. And it was a perfect marriage for them. No. So I can't say I ever watched a full episode at any time. And this is some trivia for you. I have never seen the movie mash. Is that amazing?

Jeff Dwoskin 19:12

Well, I have some trivia for you. I've never seen it either.

Unknown Speaker 19:15

Oh, no. I mean, yeah. Coming from me to say that. That's a matter that you didn't I missed the hullabaloo casting or they saw I was told they they were I don't know whether they saw them or contemplated 200 women I know people were actually going in for meats. I was in Hawaii doing a Hawaii psycho. When I came back my then agent lovely man, Fred EmCell said I'm sending you for a meet, meet cute I'm sending you to great meet Larry Gelbart, which put me into a state and Gene rattles and they're going to do that by the way. He said, have you seen mash the moving? I said no. Oh, great. He said Well, anyway, they're gonna do a series Bay. He's on it. He's simply you know, it doesn't matter because they don't have a script. You're not reading for it you deserve nothing like that they want to meet with you. And because subsequently I did find out that CBS thought I was perfect for the role I had done a lot of most of my work on TV was for CBS as it happens, I mean, it wasn't guided or purchase personal or what I mean it that's how it happened. And I had done also for CBS but had at Fox at 20th Century Fox, I had done the premiere show of Glen Ford series, it was very well reviewed, I did it with Darren McGavin wonderful actor, and we got the notice and so forth. And so Fox also should be great as Margaret hula head or whatever. So kind of the votes were supporting me, but but actually what happened, I had an offer for a movie, and Jean, and Larry had dibs on me. They had met with me and so forth. And they were, I guess, in the process of reviewing who do we think we want. And my agent called him and said, we've had an offer for a movie with Olivia de Havilland, which also put me into his and I thought, this is a no lose situation. They some of the dates of the shoot conflicted with the pilot. And so just out of courtesy, he said, we're probably going to take the movie, because who wouldn't? And Jean said, we were just going to call you we have decided to go within the switch. So that how that whole thing evolved? Isn't that is that a story? Or what is that? Good?

Jeff Dwoskin 21:35

That's an amazing story. So what's uh, once you had it, you didn't really have to see it. And then you didn't let

Unknown Speaker 21:40

well that you took my words, people say, well, then didn't you know why? Karen? Actually, Jean, and Larry made kind of a point of saying that it was not like the movie, it was closer to the book in that to begin with. It was episodic. They saw I think it differently from the movie, whatever that means. I don't know anymore. Still? I don't know. And yes, you're right. I had Why would I watch it then?

Jeff Dwoskin 22:08

Right? Because all it could do is I remove yourself completely from Sally Kellerman version I waited

Unknown Speaker 22:13

from Well, I wouldn't be implement standard, but there was no point in saying it down the line for years were told. I was told no resemblance, actually, to many of the characters except for Gary Burger. Who was the original Gary Bergdorf. Right?

Jeff Dwoskin 22:29

He was in both.

Unknown Speaker 22:31

I guess they really it was a departure.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:33

I had a question about when McLean Steven when Mac left the show it when they announced his shot down over the Sea of Japan. They always say that the cast they revealed his fate to you guys in a particular way.

Unknown Speaker 22:45

Yeah, true. No, no, that's not urban. It's not urban legend or whatever. They say, No, no, they didn't want us moping around for a week. They told us later. This is why they decided to go off and give Gary Gary to know he read it first time on camera there. We were in the car crying and hurting and and it wasn't that we wouldn't have done that. You know, we're actors. But they said to proceed that to hurt all week, knowing you were going to lose, lose him in that way. Basically, it killed any chance that he would come back, he would re enlist or he will I you know what I mean? It just it was such a purposeful and will not only lost the character, we lost our Mac you know, that's what I think so. So they said rather than have everybody in paying for a week or 10 days, whatever it was, they decided to be kind and do it that way. It was fine. It worked. I mean, you saw our pain. That is a true story of what happened.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:47

One of a million stories i did i Where did I read or did I see Prince Charles visited the set once?

Unknown Speaker 23:53

Oh, yes, absolutely. We had really what a collection of famous wonderful people. Yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 23:59

I was. I was rewatching the pilot and Bruno Kirby was in it. Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 24:03

Oh, wonderful, wonderful guest stars. Yeah, we had so many wonderful people. And my friend Mike Henry was able to come in and pick up where these in Carroll left off. He was not available. He played down a pinata, Scott and available when the Donald came back into my life for a moment. And I said, Oh, please, let's try to get a hold of Tarzan. You know, my friend who played football and for me is perfect for what Margaret would fall for it though. So Mike came in and he was wonderful. He was funny and it was so great to work with him in Canada. We had done stage playing together and any house so there was that Marsha rod, played my girlfriend from nursing school

Jeff Dwoskin 24:45

that when they brought in your friend from nursing school that was to kind of bring a little bit of more of your fun past.

Unknown Speaker 24:52

Actually it No, it was very specific. I was standing there with one of the producers or writers and I said Uh, I just wish we could exploit a little more of her her humor. That's the hurt that she you know, she's funny because she's reacting. And she's reacting in a funny way. Or she's reading a line that in a funny way, you know, you get Larry Gelbart to write you align your page, you know, I said, I wish we could show that she can make a joke to you know she was and they disappeared. Of course they ran off and immediately wrote that episode so that we saw through her girlfriend from nursing school, her girlfriends eyes that she had changed. Why wasn't she fun anymore? She used to make jokes used to play pranks. And you know, when and the girl then Marsha said that she missed that. Where's my Margaret, where did you go and I explain that I wake up in Korea, in charge of 25 nurses, I thought I couldn't do that I had to because I had to give orders and I was in charge and so forth. So that we had this, this insight into my read and you could watch her with a new insight. And it just continued to allow me to grow in the character, you know, grow the character. And so that was that was our writers. Oh, please, our writers were just, I worship our writers. But there was so many lovely, wonderful Patrick Swayze was Star Blythe Danner was the guest star. And now blocking everything because I'm trying to remember but but we had just elegant people coming in and out and they all had so much fun, they would come back and visit that around us. You know, while we were shooting, it really was such a joyous experience. One year, Alan bought us t shirts that everybody crew, everybody and the t shirt dead, the happiest crew in town. And indeed, I think we must have had to be because I remember Jamie and Harry too, they would get there really early because we actually couldn't wait to see each other and get to work and it was a joyous experience really have less. And

Jeff Dwoskin 26:57

I think that comes across. I think anytime you have an ensemble like that you can tell when the cast is gelling. I just listened to you. And you and Mike and John Allen and all those podcasts, Jamie and Gary like they would all of you. I don't know when you when you did it. But just the banter and listening to all of you talk was just like listening to a group of friends. You wouldn't know you were listening to family could just tell how much you loved each other.

Unknown Speaker 27:24

You have to understand what he's each other all the time. We it wasn't just work time. Or Harry and his wife Eileen, we used to meet on the weekends, we were asked to have lunch or they'd come over to my house. And I'd cook same thing with everybody. I spent my holidays with Jamie and his brood. And I bring my mother Jamie was my mother's favorite. Absolutely. And I'd say to her mom, when you say that you need to say, you know next to my daughter? And she would say no, he's my favorite. You're so much mother. But Jamie, I think was everybody's favorite. We were such a team, you really have that kind of extraordinary experience. You know, there are people who will say, Oh, well, you know, you work together for a long time you get to No, no, no, it doesn't always work that way. And I don't tell tales. But I know for certain of instances where it's worked. It didn't work that way at all. Every relationship went south, and it was not a happy experience. But it was a work variance. And it worked. They worked, you know, but it doesn't always happen in this miraculous kind of way. I can tell you where Gary is what he's doing, where he's going, what he's done. Or you know, for Mike, if I don't talk to Mike today, I'll get a lot of email from him and or I'll send him a mail or Jamie we talk very frequently on the phone because we have started to do some of these autograph shows together, which has been a joy because we get time to spend together quality time we sit down after the show. We have dinner and we laugh and I recently he had a birthday party and I gave him a little birthday lunch at his favorite Lebanese restaurant. And it was the gang. It really is difficult to explain. We always used to say when we're talking about ourselves, we say yeah, had to be there. Had to be there and would add and we were we all were there. And we kind of still are you know we're still there.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:25

Sorry to interrupt this amazing conversation with Loretta Swit, but we got to take a quick break. And we're back and let's get right back into the conversation. I love that it's such a tight knit group and I mentioned it earlier but I'm really looking forward to meeting you and Jamie at the Motor City Comicon Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 29:42

where are you? Be sure you tie in your seat belts? No I we are we have worked together instances where it's just the two of us bantering and stuff and we don't have it down to a script or anything but we know each other so well and it's As comes out funny, it's delightful. And we love doing it we love right?

Jeff Dwoskin 30:04

No, absolutely. I, I could tell when I was listening to Alan all this podcast, when I was listening to just, he's a hoot. He's a he must be so funny to be around. But all of them, it's just I'm sure you have awesome stories on all of them. Your character, you and Alan Alda, you're the two the two that were there from when we're

Unknown Speaker 30:24

in the pilot and the pilot. And in the finale, there we were, yep. Accept. Jamie was very close. He's polluted, right? And because he was hired, so one day and he stayed for 11 seasons, he was on the very following season as a kind of recurring character. But by year three, I think he was in the cast. And he was in the front credits. You know what I'm talking about. Right? Right, right. Yeah. So I kind of feel the three of us were but technically no, Alan and I were the the two in the pilot. And that people who said goodbye, farewell and Amen. Alan, and I never stopped appreciating the wonder of it, the kind of lucky to be us, very likely to be us.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:14

To this day, it's probably one of the greatest, if not the greatest, and episodes to a television series ever. And on top of being the most watched thing still of all time,

Unknown Speaker 31:25

yes, that's probably never going to change, you know, because the whole spectrum has changed. You don't even have those little Nielsen recorders or whatever it was to monitor any of that will always champion and spot because right. Now, there's 500 channels. No, but yeah, look at that. So how could you possibly or whatever, I read about stuff that I haven't seen yet. And it's been on like, I'll see in its third third season. How come? I don't know this? I mean, they're just there's a wealth of product out there. And I'm so thrilled about that, because actors deserve to work. So the more product we produce, the more work there is, and it just supports the arts. It keeps us going.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:09

Oh, absolutely. I did read that father mo ks would have been but somebody else played him in the first William Christopher didn't play him in the That's correct. Yeah, that's correct. And then I also read just that, excuse me for digging DOS, random stuff. Gary actually was in the finale by technically only because they reuse some older footage. Yeah, a real rotating. And yeah, you kiss talk I for 38 seconds. That's the

Unknown Speaker 32:37

longest kiss known command. And women on celluloid TV sell your Lloyd's

Jeff Dwoskin 32:44

and how many takes it you have to take you silly. yourself that that sounds like we've got to do it again. And we should do this

Unknown Speaker 32:52

again. That's a really That's a funny, funny question. And I'm going to tell everybody that way. How many takes indeed, listen, we couldn't keep holding our breath that long. Oh, God, it was so funny. But you know, these guys, they're like my brothers, you know, to play this scenes are like that's like that's acting. In that case, you know, where those two characters who had been antagonists and belted and discovered other qualities and there was always a kind of love, there was a respect always she admired his scale. You know, as a surgeon, there's, there's so many things that were the undercurrent of their relationships that made it perfectly natural to explode in the longest kiss known to man, that was where they were going. And that's, I think, another thing that was so great about mash, you would be surprised but it was a natural evolution for those people, those characters and that in large part is due to the writing because those guys would go to their office and they would say what if so and so and so and so these two unlikely pair two unlikely characters What if they were lost behind enemy lines? Or in our case, the Jamie and I, we did an episode called Birthday girls and it's my birthday and he's supposed to drive me to Kymco to catch a plane to Tokyo where I'm going to have celebration with the grass that appreciates me and these guys I don't want the guys with a 407 sevens even know it's my birthday because they're just gonna you know, make a mockery of my majority. So we get stranded and I confess to him that it's not where I wanted to be on my birthday is it was your birthday, vlog and and I don't know if you've seen the episode is beautiful, it's touching and suddenly you see Max at his Tinder best. You see him care about a major who does nothing but three madam or him around and you see her melt when he gives her a cupcake with a candle And so that comes from the writers, they give us the skeleton, they give us the outline, and we flesh it out. And but we got to have the word. We've got to have the writers you can't do shapes for without really. So

Jeff Dwoskin 35:13

it was just amazing. And the Writers Guild of America voted it one of the best written TV series of all times. And then you went to Emmys.

Unknown Speaker 35:23

I did so cool. I was nominated every year. 10 times, right. Yeah, absolutely. And also, Tom Bosley was he was on the voting team or whatever, what he actually came to me and he said, I'm not supposed to tell you this that you've lost by one vote. I was so angry. He was so good at telling me that's so nice. It was actually being nominated so many times. He was like a big deal. It was really a big deal to me. I thought that was so appreciative of how hard we work to be good to be as excellent as we can be. So now, what else what else is on your mind?

Jeff Dwoskin 35:59

Let me say we also won the Betty White award for actors and others with for animals. Yeah, and let's use that as a segue to sweetheart and your animal activist because you've been doing amazing thing.

Unknown Speaker 36:12

Well, I yeah, thank you. But to my best we all do people who care about sentient beings, about cruelty about ending cruelty and doing things like puppy mills and stuff. Because so many things in crisis today, very often, you find caring for animals at the bottom of the ladder, you know, so we have to band together and keep us keep our stature keep our place in caring for these animals and speak for them because they can't so but I love what the charity has sweetheart has been able to do, you probably know that I have that art book out the second printing of my art book and it's all about animals, mostly about animals and most of the paintings are of animals and all the proceeds from the sale of that book go into my charity and it gives me a great sense of satisfaction kind of like coming full circle with my artwork, which I love and with of my animals whom I love and doing good with the charity which I'm know is a goal so it's very fulfilling and enriching I'm really happy about that we now have a perfume called sweetheart we now have a really fully operative website that is now going to be carrying everything heart oriented. I have these necklaces now with the heart of Topaz which is my birthstone which is my influence on the jewelry but they're all different there's a Ruby topaz, Diamond Topaz, Amethyst and emerald given their popularity, we may extend to the rest of the birth zones you know the Garnet, aquamarine etc and so forth. So it keeps me busy we have different projects you know, the entire name is sweetheart animal Alliance.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:57

I gotta say this sweetheart animal Alliance it's so moving these spent so much of your time and your star power to help prevent cruelty and end animal suffering. I'm going to make it really easy for everyone I'll put links in the show notes so they can go purchase from the sweat heart shop, they can make a donation directly they can check out your amazing art book make it as easy as possible for people to support you and the sweat heart animal Alliance. Oh, you know what? I you know, I found this while I while I was diving in to your books, I also found a needlepoint book that you made wanted to talk to you about needlepoint and because my mom was an avid needle, Oh really. When she passed away I inherited most of it and, and like like really, really detailed beadwork. Like, using amazing stuff here. I want to take pictures I'm going to show you Wow,

Unknown Speaker 38:45

that's a long time ago. And I didn't sit down to do that double day approached me and said we read a story that you did and so forth. And we were wondering if you would be willing to and that's how that came about is a pretty book. It was called a needlepoint scrapbook. And they had some designs diagrams and so forth for the for the purists. But mostly a Chad design had a little story to it too. You know, like for example, there was one that was Allen's favorite animal. It was his favorite knife. I always kicked him out and he would say I love that pillow again when he would be at my house or something. And then I'd say you know, Alan, you are so consistent every time you come to the house and you see that pillow. You say I love that. He said it and maybe it's just an echo. But the thing is, there were little little vignettes, little stories kind of attached to each thing. Richard Mulligan was my very very close friend and I did pillow for him and in the cell. So there were like little stories attached to so it was kind of an interesting read and had some good designs if you also were into it for that I was thinking the double day would like to do they must have some You left go over some weeks, we then went to softcover. And if there were any in storage, I could put them out at the ComiCon or so I always think the more you can offer your people the better. Jamie has that book so far so good clever title. Yeah, yeah. So okay, so what next? You must be exhausted. What don't you know everything about me you care too.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:26

I know a lot about you now the I just was you know, needlepoint doesn't come up that off. Yeah. So so one of those things I wanted to kind of actually painted canvases as a side job once I knew that I was excited. So alright, so we talked. Alright, so I do have one other thing we can go into. So I think this is this was early early. You were in the odd couple.

Unknown Speaker 40:47

Oh my god. Yes. Oh, that's Yeah, yeah. Do you want to go back that far? What you did Captain Kangaroo? Yeah, I did several versions of wonderful people that my two odd people. Oh my god, eg Marshall. Well in California, Don Rickles and Ernie Borgnine. I mean, there was never an otter couple. And they were so brilliant. It was Yeah, I did the odd couple a lot.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:13

And then I'm always fast. I love the love about as well. Yes, Doc Isaac, and go around the shop. So I saw that you've made four trips at least more

Unknown Speaker 41:22

Yes. But that's the one they wrote for me because of my ethnicity. And my background Polish close enough to Russian they wrote kind of the Nasca love story. I'm Bernie Capelle. I've known forever. We work so well together. Bernie doc on love both falls in love with this NACA character who like the movie is stern and Russian and comes in, you know, careful back and yeah, and he gets her to melt and enjoy life a little bit. But it was lovely. It was lovely. Bernie wrote me this tweet note when we finished and it ended with to do this again and again, would not be a harsh thing. I loved it. I love him. Because I was able to say things like, how he wanted me to marry him and stay in the US. And I say to him at the end, you love this country? Very much. He says yes. I say I love my country. And it gives the audience an opportunity to realize that while we offer citizenship, like this incredible gift, that mommy's giving an interview, while we think it's such such a gift, this cow, this Russian gal with a good job, and she was able to say Yeah, well, I love my country too. And then she's a little bit about walking through the meadows and, and I love how human they allowed her to be actually that was when trying to remember if we did the pilot of the Love Boat, I believe Richard Mulligan and I, Richard and I did the for Love Boat. Funny. Oh God, he had me laughing so but it was wonderful. He was wonderful to work with. And then I got to work with him again and sob the real world goes round.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:19

The world goes round. Yeah, you've got a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. You've done everything. What is it like being an icon

Unknown Speaker 43:30

I'll tell you a funny story from gaming. You know when I couldn't make the the show I was running around the hotel when we were running around the airport trying to get to Tennessee. Jamie's said ret you know he I told you he said everybody would want to talk about me and us and so forth. And he said it took me a while he said to absorb being called an icon. You know what they call us in Tennessee? He said we are living legends. He's laughing he's killing himself. He said we are living legends it's wonderful that you can be that much to people because it's you because you're you're being you and giving of yourself and they're getting so much out of it. You're both of you view and the audience are getting so much from it. That's I guess what I want to say I don't know if that eventually made sense. But I we love what we do you know? The industry is too difficult if you didn't love what you did die it No,

Jeff Dwoskin 44:32

no, it made perfect sense. Yeah, it's been awesome hanging with other living legends such

Unknown Speaker 44:39

Jamie Jamie was just overwhelmed. He was so adorable. A living legend. Oh my gosh. You know, you know him. He's, let's go to pack house and he loves to lead out. This is a guy who had a million dollar golf tournament for charity. I mean, Jamie is one of them is really extraordinary. Anyhow,

Jeff Dwoskin 44:58

well, you're extraordinary. Awesome. Oh, yeah, you're just saying, Oh, you do to get back I think it's I think it's extraordinary when people use their star power and icon power and living legend power to do such good things for the world. So,

Unknown Speaker 45:14

you know, it's really the only time being a celebrity let's say it's the only time it really has a good meaning a real meaning. That's you know, if you can use it platform if you have a platform to pick up do good stands for good and advise well, or you know what I mean? That's when it really that's where it really means something

Jeff Dwoskin 45:36

amazing. Everything you learned every so that Betty White award, you've won, you've won a million awards we didn't even cover for everyone wants to dive in. We didn't even scratch the surface. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 45:47

that's why we have to do a reunion. First, Loretta, Jeffery, you. We, okay, we need to you, it's up to you. You got to start working on that, you know, put together a little program and stuff and we'll see. Okay,

Jeff Dwoskin 46:03

we'll put it together. Maybe you know what, I'll try I'll try and reach out to the comic con people or tell them to have me lead. I'm sure you're gonna do a panel.

Unknown Speaker 46:10

No, not always. We don't always hit that will say, you know, we it's up to it depends. It really it's, there's other things coming in. So we'll say, Okay, well, we'll figure out what welfare now I'm reading what I think is going to be a very good script. If it happens. I really am liking it. So I have to do that for the rest of the day. And you you have your project to work on now the reunion.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:38

Right, right. And if you need me to if you need me to read lines with you just call me back.

Unknown Speaker 46:42

I know you can't have to read it. I have no I don't have it. They called and offered and they want availability. But before I said, Yes, I'm available. But she said if we say you're available, they're gonna want you to do it. You have to make sure you want to do it. So please read it. So that's where I am right now.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:59

Got it. Cool. Well, I can't thank you enough for hanging out with me. This was so much fun.

Unknown Speaker 47:04

It was fun. It was fun. That friend who helps me out as she's really like my right arm on social media. She helps me at the show as you'll meet her. She says her little nieces say you don't lose, you learn that's like my mantra lose, yield learn and that's how you keep going forward. If you keep learning you know, there's no end to what you can achieve. So off I go

Jeff Dwoskin 47:30

towards my gapping have a finer way to end it. Thank you so much. Thank

Unknown Speaker 47:34

you so much. Have a great weekend. God bless God bless bye bye.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:38

How amazing was Loretta Swit? I know right? So cool. So many great stories definitely check out the sweetheart animal Alliance her web page sweetheart.org You can order her amazing watercolor book and a whole lot more support the sweetheart animal alliance to prevent cruelty and help and animal suffering such an easy way to do a little good. All right, well with the interview over I can only mean one thing that's right.

Jeff Dwoskin 48:09

It's time for another trending hashtag run the family of hashtags at hashtag round up. Download the free always free doesn't cost a penny app from the iTunes App Store or Google Play Store. Follow us on Twitter at hashtag roundup tweet along with us and one day one of your tweets may show up on a future episode of Classic conversations, fame and fortune awaits you. The hashtag for this episode is #AnimalActionMovies brought to us by weekly humerus a weekly game on the hashtag roundup app. This is a hilarious mashup of animals obviously inspired by Laura does amazing work with animals and action movies. #AnimalActionMoviess, the ultimate animal action movie Pong game in the world. Alright, tweet your own #AnimalActionMovies. Tweet tag us at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter. I'll show you some Twitter love. In the meantime, here's some #AnimalActionMovies, tweets for your inspiration

Jeff Dwoskin 49:15

Fist full of dolphins. The herd locker, starship groupers Apocalypse cow. The French Bulldog connection is our amazing #AnimalActionMovies tweets. Let's keep it rollin with last action hair on Jurassic Park raw. Oink visit of Oz fly hard #AnimalActionMovies. Yeah, I never saw it coming. Did ya know Cougars for Old Men? Guardians other Galapagos us, Lord of the ring tailed lemurs Mordo. wombat that fast in the forest. And our final #AnimalActionMovies tweets. From ducks till dawn clack Oh, oh, there we go. Those were awesome #AnimalActionMovies tweets, all retweeted at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter, Go show those tweets and love some Twitter live. Wow, can you believe it with the hashtag game over with the interview over I can only mean one thing.

Jeff Dwoskin 50:22

Oh my goodness episode 164 has come to an end I cannot believe it is flown by. I want to thank my special guests Loretta Swit are spending her 50th anniversary of mash with me. And of course, I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me and I'll see you next time.

CTS Announcer 50:43

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai