#158 Kato Kaelin Is My Houseguest This Week

CTS Announcer 0:01

If you're a pop culture junkie, who loves TV, film, music, comedy and other really important stuff, then you've come to the right place. Get ready and settle in for classic conversation, the best pop culture interviews in the world. God's right, we circled the globe so you don't have to. If you're ready to be the king of the water cooler, then you're ready for classic conversations with your host, Jeff Dwoskin.

Jeff Dwoskin 0:30

All right, Marsha, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. And you got this show go and each and every week and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 158 of classic conversations. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. I hope you're ready for a classic conversation with one of the most famous house guests in the world. That's right everyone. Kato Kaelin is here, actor podcaster house guest and witness at the trial of the century the Oh Jay murder case, we talk OJ we're talking ice wars. We're talking one degree of scandalous Kaitos awesome podcast. We're talking people vs. OJ Simpson. We're just talking Kaito and I have a fantabulous conversation, and that's coming up in just a few seconds. In these few seconds. I want to remind everyone to check out last week's episodes. Steve Young was my guest, the writer for David Letterman for over 20 years and the star and focus of the documentary bathtubs over Broadway, a documentary I am obsessed with can't get enough industrial musicals. You don't know what that is. Listen to the episode watch the documentary. You'll thank me later. It's amazing. Also the bonus episodes on Thursdays with crossing the stream segments binge watching TV suggestions for you don't miss out on that. All right now without further ado, my conversation with Kato Kaelin the world's most famous house guest sat down with me we talked to OJ Simpson and oh so much more. It's a fabulous conversation. I'm excited to share it with you right now. Enjoy. All right everyone. I'm so excited to introduce you to my next guest. actor radio personality podcast hosts the most famous house guests in the world witness in the trial of the century the OJ murder case ladies and gentlemen, Brian Kato Kaelin Welcome to the show.

Kato Kaelin 2:47

Thank you very much you said that just like a Jeopardy question that was that was Kato Kaelin is real birth name. It's Brian not brain

Jeff Dwoskin 2:56

Yeah, it's Brian Kato Kaelin so we've been following each other on Twitter forever. This is the first time we've had the opportunity to actually chat and meet so very nice to meet you in person. Or to meet

Kato Kaelin 3:09

you Mr. Very funny man, by the way. Oh, people see Jeff on stage someday I cheated at YouTube and tell me your stuff. He's just brilliant. Nice to meet you.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:18

Oh, thank you. So Kyle, that is so kind thank you so much. I you know, like everyone I was fascinated with the whole OJ thing. So I got a million questions but I want to kind of build up to that. I'd love to know what you Kato Kaelin What was your plan?

Kato Kaelin 3:34

I'm like the Midwest guy like you are from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Just an hour different timezone. The new I grew up in the Midwest, I went to University of Wisconsin, Eau Claire, which is the second biggest university and I was pretty good and baseball. So I made the varsity freshman year I said, you know, I think I could be a pro. So I transferred to Cal State Fullerton from there. But in the meantime, I was doing a TV show to Claire called Kato and friends. And I said, God, this is this is great. And you become instantly popular because you're seeing all over the city. It was sort of my backup plan. See a baseball bat could become a pro. Anyways, I transferred to Cal State Fullerton which was at that time, the number one baseball school and when I transferred I saw these guys that were enormous. We scrimmage against Mark McGuire who was at USC, it sort of tells you my age, and I was nowhere near I didn't I didn't develop whiskers till I was 38. So I saw I had no no shot. Although I could throw a basketball at 10 miles an hour at a knuckle curve. I didn't make it and but I was doing theater, doing shows at Cal State, Wisconsin and I said I should just try to get into acting or in comedy. And sure enough, I auditioned for a movie a long time ago called beach fever if you're ever on an aircraft carrier, it was on USA Network. And I had the that sort of beachy kind of guy. And at that time guys like Johnny Depp, we're doing a little beach films that Gary Marshall directed to him and I was getting those auditions and so I've had my screen actors guild card for over 40 years, and that was my goal, Jeff, is to get an acting I always wanted to be an actor always went to premieres and a real quick story that I used to go to every film premiere and get invited, and no one made a big deal of that. But when I became famous from the OJ trial, everybody said, Oh, look at know he's going to film premieres Cato, and it started a whole backlash. And I was like, No, I used to always do this. You guys just didn't know me. And then I always tell the story of my career was kind of, you know, I did a few national commercials for Jack in the Box, Coca Cola and and slice commercials the week before the murders happened. The week before I just tested for film on my callbacks, called Dumb and Dumber. And I was reading the Harry Lloyd part JF Daniels role, and a few other roles. Jeff Montgomery was casting and in the meantime, since then, I've met the Farrelly brothers and became, you know, I've gone golfing with them. And it was sort of like, wow, it all came around. And it took took over 30 years or 26 years before meeting it all. But it was like, geez, this is really interesting life and I'm still the exact same guy, Jeff. You know, it's still pursuing my career and still love people, even the ones that are haters.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:11

You mentioned baseball. My friend Howard Rosner wanted me to mention that he loved you and bass ketball.

Kato Kaelin 6:18

Well, baseball, David Zucker directed that and wrote it. He's also from Milwaukee, and we have a very strong connection. As a matter of fact, I was just married. Less than a month ago, that was at David's house. He hosted the entire event. We didn't have basketball setup, but he's more than kind and that anything work comes up that he puts he puts me in, and it's always great to have a connection. Especially as you know, Midwest people are just so down to earth.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:43

Oh, yeah. And Mazel Tov on getting married. That's awesome. Oh, yeah.

Kato Kaelin 6:47

Thank you. Cheers. Mazel Tov to you. I appreciate it very much. It's been great. Katie where are you? Jesus she's out shopping again.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:55

Man. For those you just listening. Who know Kay don't get picture I'm from the OJ trial. He's still got incredible hair. My hair was closer to your OJ era hair. Now I'm I got a little receding. You know, I hold on to hopes it's so

Kato Kaelin 7:12

funny that Johnny Depp just had a trial. And the the first few days he had the Kato hair. It looked like he rented it mine from the 90s. And then they said, Hey, Johnny picks it up, put it in a ponytail or something.

Jeff Dwoskin 7:22

Isn't it amazing with the Johnny Depp? Amber Heard that there's still the fascination when a celebrity goes to trial. I mean, OJ was it was a murder trial. So there's a higher level of stakes there. But like this was just two people who were doing really bad things to each other that really none of us needed to know about.

Kato Kaelin 7:42

Yeah, it was basically a dirty laundry truck. And you know what, Jeff, I always try to not get involved with the DOJ stuff. But every it's always I get a phone call to do an interview from anytime there's a trial and murder that goes on. They always call like, hey, what do you think of this? And I tried to stay away from it. But yeah, inundated with Johnny Depp stuff. I said, You know what, I'm just gonna post my own stuff and see what happens with that. And sure enough, you mentioned I have like yourself a podcast. But it all was created because I was approached so many times I kid who share the podcast, and I never wanted to do it. And then I did the one degree of scandalous that you can get the podcast anywhere you guys get your podcast, Apple and Spotify. The guy that I worked with was at Fox Sports, really successful reporter journalism, he runs value entertainment, his name's Thomas, enter, he said, This is what you need to do. So I did my first one. And I was like, felt so is sort of like this weight off your shoulder. And I could express myself very cathartic gone incredible that I discussed the Deaf trial, and I'm discussing so many different, let's face it. Everybody in America loves scandals. Everybody loves to find out that someone's life could be worse than theirs. And I think it's sort of that Homer Simpson, not OJ Simpson, the Homer Simpson Simpson theory, where people watch The Simpsons because Homer is always in trouble. And it's like, Oh, I'm glad I'm not him. Like I said, it's so cathartic to do a podcast and the guests and the scandals, that we relive current and old ones. And it's honestly, I'm not a promoter. But it really is fascinating, and I love doing it.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:13

Well, it's great. And I think because you were part of one trial and all that, I think it adds a level of credibility that a lot of the true crime podcasts maybe don't have, and it could because just even being there yourself during the OJ trial gives you a perspective of things that happened and you were aware of things and gently that maybe no one else would have been just because you were there. You know how it works, you know, you know, so you bring up a great point of view to that that type of of contents. Plus, you're right, people just can't get enough of it.

Kato Kaelin 9:44

Yeah, they get and you know what, you know, and I think people like I said, they really want to see other people in pain. And I noticed that too, and you don't really, you become I mentioned this on a few interviews and it's so true. You become a soap opera character, and people have their judgement of loving you or Hey, Do you and you no longer become a real person to anybody. And if you even get bashed by people, they don't really consider your feelings and people ancillary to your life from Parents, Husband, wife's kids, they don't care. I think I give that perspective of I'm very, very happy and gregarious person. But you know, sometimes you have to hide it when you're really hurting. And I think I did that. And now, like I said, it's such a relief to do a podcast and get your feelings out there. And it just helps me out. I think I help others too.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:29

Yeah. And it's great. It's great. It speaks to what you said earlier about people knocking you with premieres, people just want to take everyone down a notch, right? Oh, here's famous Cato. Let's look at him. He's just strutting himself, you know, I mean, it's like, yeah, they only see the bad you know, and so it's because that makes them feel better. And it's like, Come on people,

Kato Kaelin 10:47

which is funny. I know you do comedy, and I've been doing drums data by doing lots of hosting all over the country, I noticed that when I do any kind of hosting, if I'm out of Los Angeles, the people are fantastic. The inner la crowd, I just think there's a Kaito stigma sometimes. And it's difficult, or I always think maybe it's in my head. But if I get out of town, 25 miles out of LA, I can crush it. And it's really amazing. Because I think people like seeing someone out of LA that they don't normally get to see not that I'm saying a celebrity but I'm saying it's really refreshing to them and to myself to be out of Los Angeles doing anything because people are so accepting.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:27

Yeah, I think also very the people in LA are like, Why didn't I get that gig and everyone else is just happy to see

Kato Kaelin 11:34

people. Jesus why could I Is anybody here when the Heisman who's murdered someone I want to live in that house? Like I said, I said why can I move in with Jessica Simpson Damn it that Craigslist

Jeff Dwoskin 11:48

Hey, just want to take a quick break. Thank everyone for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors you're supporting us here at Classic conversations and that's how we keep the lights on and now back to my amazing conversation with Kato Kaelin we were about to dive into his ice wars project and then don't worry OJ Simpson is coming right up and we're back. So much good stuff. Oh, before we get into some other stuff. I you sent me a clip this new project you're doing called Ice Horse.

Kato Kaelin 12:15

Oh, yeah, it is. So ice Wars is basically price fighting on ice MMA fighting and Hi, it's a created by Charlie Nammo is a dear friend of mine for many years, actually in Detroit lives in Detroit and also in Florida. He was played hockey. And Charlie said God everybody loves the fights and hockey. They come for the fight. And he created ice fighting, no hockey game. It was so successful may 21. We did our first one in 2022. If people go to ice floors on Instagram or anything on Twitter, or even Cato underscore Kailyn, you'll see the comments and Jeff the comments are like this is the brand new sport that we're falling in love with. We're on fight TV, and they did the Jake Paul Mike Tyson fights at FIT e TV fight TV, they are gung ho on it. And it's so exciting that I'm on that ground floor and we see it growing. At one time there was one UFC fight and now it's like UFC. I don't know the 3 million in 12. Right now, we are going to be in our second one. We also know that somebody wants a third one and we sell out. I mean, who couldn't love these these guys, all NHL guys that used to play and and they know it's an art form to be on skates and fighting. It really is an art form than anybody who's gone skating before. You're from Detroit. And I know you know the Redwings. It's really, really tough and it's it's super exciting. You know, most of the guys I've met they're all from Canada. I mean, there's some that are from USA. The kindest people I've met in my life. These guys just go well. I'm gonna punch someone in the teeth, and I hope I win. And that's it and then they hug. They go balls out. I mean, it's the real deal of fighting so someone gets crowned king of the rink. AJ Galante is the president of the company. I don't know if you watch the Netflix show untold crimes and penalties, the number one documentary on Netflix, AJ gliding and Jimmy glad to have the most incredible story and that's how we also got for him there. AJ has a boxing ring is father was compared to Tony Soprano. He was he bought his son at 17, the his own hockey team. I implore people please rent Netflix until crimes and penalties. And that's another way that we started with high scores. And like I said, all the right elements, the stars aligned.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:23

That's really cool. And we do a weekly show on live on Wednesdays one of the guys on the show always talks about the untold series, he covers every one of them. Oh, go cool. There was one called malice at the palace where my friend Howard Rosner actually that I mentioned to you earlier, he was there working at the palace when that whole huge fight between the pistons and I'm not a sports guy, but I will say that ice wars I think will be huge because your description was the exact immediate visceral response that I had to you via Twitter DM when you sent me the clip, I was like, Oh, this is perfect. It's hockey and you remove the hockey and just left the best part which is the fighting now, I'm not a sports guy. So it's like, but that's always awesome. And then I was explaining to my friends I'm like, oh Kaito showed me this clip. It's basically it looks like MMA on skates.

Kato Kaelin 15:11

Yeah. And we like I said, we crowned someone king of the rank. And in Hollywood, I think, you know, you're in showbiz. You go into any kind of pitch meeting, if you're going to pitch a TV show you Pitch Anything, you know, you try to get a deal. But when you can pitch a show in 10 seconds, and someone goes, I get it. That's our show. They get it.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:28

That's the first path to success, I think. Absolutely. Yeah. So I had a question about the OJ trial. My first question actually is, how did it impact you internally knowing this is like after once you kind of got through the trial, and you could probably relax and, and realize that the fact that you were living with someone capable of murder and did murder, I have a story where like, my roommate in college, shot his girlfriend and killed himself. So it's, it's interesting to me to kind of understand, like, where your head was, because back then a lot of people didn't go to therapy or anything, right? It wasn't like, but there's a reality at some point. After all this after the whole media zoo passes down, you're like you think to yourself, holy shit, I was like, I was like living with a murderer. And, and I was at one point living with someone who was murdered. It's like, how did that play in your brain? After everything kind of settled down?

Kato Kaelin 16:22

I would say that to this day. You have I've had dreams and nightmares that constantly exactly you pinpointed that I say that exact thing to myself. It's like, Oh, my God, I was living with a murderer. And then it made me start thinking of when you are any person walking in the streets nowadays, I just wondered made me wonder to myself, I wonder how many times you've actually bumped into somebody that has killed someone as morbid as it sounds. It's like, especially in the nowadays, where I think that life is not important to many people. Especially not educated without education. Life is they don't certain people don't view life as important. So I always think that thought, and then I, I was always thinking it's like, what if things were sort of different that that somewhere I would during that time that I saw something? And then he had to kill me. I mean, it's these more, these are dreams that you go Jesus, would it be apt to also kill? So? Yeah, it's sort of like you get that I get the queasy feeling in my stomach. You know, even today, I think that the trial itself, the pressure has, you know, I definitely had developed ulcers and the stress was certain things on my stomach still pains today, because it was a for me, I've never been in a courtroom my entire life until the OJ trial. I've never, I had no parking tickets, nothing. The first time I'm stepping in a courtroom. It's a double homicide trial. You know, I never had to hire a lawyer and do all that. But I've met some great people that I would you know, as advice, just get a lawyer so you can go through exactly the questioning, that'll be happening meet with both sides, the prosecution defense, so it was a good year, it was a year and a half trial. And I was down to the courtroom for my testimony for six days, but down there for a month because I was on hold the whole time. And just staying in a little like closet area. waiting on hold.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:06

Yeah, it's it's got to play with you. Because I know, I read I was kind of just digging a bit. But like, when you when this when the murder happened. Were you a suspect? You know, I mean, right in the beginning, I mean, before they moved on, and I

Kato Kaelin 18:19

imagine everybody has to be a suspect in the beginning to find out because five in the morning, someone's knocking at my door. It happens to be for Detective I never even knew I just let these guys in. And they didn't say anything. And then they finally said we're the detectives, LAPD and I said, Hey, what happened and the whole time I'm doing it. I'm saying did OJ died did its plane crash because that's the last thing I know. We went on a plane, and I was disorientated. I was like, what despite what's going on, and then they they came in my room and asked me everything what clothes that I wear? What's going on? Are these your shoes and I really I wore this stuff. And they're looking under my boots and everything I'm going I have I have no idea what's going on. So I think as far as suspect, I'm sure that's where they're doing their job to find they don't know me. And then Oh Jays daughter was in a bungalow next to mine. And then they will occur. So yeah, I suppose everybody was and then after being in the room and at the police station for pretty much I think it was at least 12 hours or so. I think they interviewed me long enough. And then I was they let go. And I'd say that we'll be in contact with you in that.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:21

So they interrogated you pretty pretty hard. Right after that was

Kato Kaelin 19:25

in I was in a room but it wasn't it wasn't I didn't think of it as hard. They just were asking me questions they didn't. It wasn't a Forensic Files to me. It was just questioning and talking to me. I think they the one thing that I always remembered to Jeff is when I was being escorted out after we in question at OJS house, not my bungalow, but in the actual main house. They walked me out. They wanted everybody out of the house at one point. So they just said I'm walking with detectives, they say Oh, watch out for the blood. And I looked down and I saw blood droplets. I was like, whoa. And I always think in my head watching many Colombo's. I think that was just to see My reaction may be, but it was just like, it shocked me that there was little droplets. Yeah, it's amazing.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:06

Like they look for those little things like I was watching a documentary or something on the bomb, the guy who did the Boston Marathon bomb. Yeah. And one of the, you know, they had all the crazy cameras going. And when the explosion happened, he looked the opposite way of everyone else. And that's how they knew that was him. And they at least I'm going by whatever I was watching. Yeah, no, but so fascinating psychology. Right.

Kato Kaelin 20:31

So, you know, I was gonna ask you, you know, you're talking about in college that you had, if you how did that affect you though? It's really interesting to me, because talking with you, you I didn't know something, you know, that's sort of traumatic that it was your roommate that shot his girlfriend and then himself. So two people were killed?

Jeff Dwoskin 20:48

No, actually, she lived. So it's, I was living with this guy. And and this was like, we it was a room blind. I didn't know anyone related to the college I went to and back nowadays, you know, you meet people on Facebook groups, you get to know him for six months before you move it back. Then I just got a letter said you're living with this guy. Okay, so we're living together. And it was just he was a little off. Okay. And right. And so one time, my friend Tim was in my room, and he opens up the drawer, desk drawer, and I might do this on my desk. So he just shuts it. Okay, later, we're back in the room, just the app with me, he opens the drawer again, just to get a reaction out of me. But there's a note in there. So do you like going through my stuff? In C, there's no way okay. And so there's this some level of weirdness going on here. And he would do weird stuff with his girlfriend on the phone. And he put like a show on and it's like, I get it. Like when you're watching stuff, you never think point A is going to end to point Z somebody getting shot or somebody's getting killed is right. It's not something that really goes through your head. And so one day he goes to Wisconsin, which is where his girlfriend was, and I think the story was, and again, this is just you know, secondary, but like that he was going to kill himself in front of her because she broke up, but she ran. So he shot her hit her in the back of the neck, it kind of hit a soft spot out her mouth. So she ends up being perfectly out her mouth. Yeah, like that's, you know, as I recall, and so and then they found him in a hotel he had killed himself. And as a The other thing that happened to me is I had a lot of CDs at the time. Now I know people are like, so it is what are CDs, but at one point having 100 CDs, and this is the late 90s. That was that's where all my money went. Because I didn't go I wasn't into drugs, right? It was odd to have any CDs at this time. But my suitemate so I had moved out, I have a new room, He robs me, takes all my stuff that affected me a lot. I mean, there was 1015 years where I couldn't walk into a room without casing the room and really being worried. But the other guy killing himself, it was a little because we didn't see it. And it was a little surreal. You felt weird, the girl was okay. But the thing I remember to this day is the parents coming to get their stuff, and it not really emotionally impacting me huge until years later when I had kids because I couldn't, you know, putting that together with what they were actually going through at the time. I had no context to that. And it was them going to get the guy's stuff who was crazy and killed him. So I mean, it was like, Well, years later, it was like, I was like, as a parent, I was like, Oh, that was weird. I was witnessing the worst moment of their lives. And it was like you know, so

Kato Kaelin 23:28

if you don't get her on your show as a guest can you get her on one degree of scandalous? Because that is that's really an amazing story. And I think like you said, I was you know, really into you telling me this and that's how I feel about people you know, to crime on podcasts are like the most fascinating the people I think that's why you know, like a show like a Forensic Files on what I think their 15 year. It just, it's craziness. And I think I think most of a Hollywood feature films that you look at like a show like a forensic file, which my wife and I watch all the time. Everything is based and you can see that Hollywood screenwriters are watching this stuff. Because so many of these are feature films, because they're so interesting. How off like you said, you're this guy was a little off, you find that people are just a little often you go how can people be like this? I mean, honestly, how can people be like this and I go all the way back to my being raised in my family, my parents passed away, but I come from a family of six and I think you don't think of it at the time of how lucky you are that you had like a loving family. And it all relates to that because it makes sense that most of the people in crime had a bad childhood. And it's like Jesus, I never would think that when I'm growing up and like I just want to get out of here. Why are you yelling at me Dad and blah blah blah. So you really I think you've come with the older you get obviously you appreciate life and like I say I appreciate growing up in Milwaukee I

Jeff Dwoskin 24:49

agree it thankful that I had a normal child yeah you everyone you have the fight in normal fights and whatever with your brothers sisters parents, you know mom and dad and all that, you know, but But yeah, enjoy unroll yes it was a very nice loving good bringing up and so yeah you never know it's like so it's like weird like that's why it was so interested in like that question that I asked earlier is like because when you're around certain people you just you never know you never know yeah

Kato Kaelin 25:15

and also you asked me before about how you know you go through some traumatic I think it's it's less traumatic for me because I did have family support and you know I still have my best buddies from high school and I think that is when you have people that if you ever get cocky or an event believe me they humble you and that is the my base of you can you can never be too big that's that expression it's like trust me you got good friends they'll put you in your place and you shouldn't be put your place so I think the base of my dearest friends are still my dearest friends today and that's that's also very life saving did not see a psychologist or anything

Jeff Dwoskin 25:53

sorry to interrupt this amazing conversation with Kato Kaelin but we have to take a quick break and we're back with Kato Kaelin bout to dive into The People vs. OJ Simpsons mini series, the actor that portrayed him and so much more. And we're back. How did it feel when they brought back the people Versus OJ the movie not necessarily your feelings in the movie, which I'm interested in. But just all of a sudden, it's like, at some point, you're like, Okay, it's been decades and you start to feel like disbelief that it's never gonna go away. But it's like subsiding a bit. Right? There's other things and then all of a sudden, Ryan Murphy goes, No, I want to remind everybody that this happened, and then we're gonna create and it's funny, because it's like, there were 150 some witnesses in the OJ trial. And it's like, I mean, no disrespect to any of them. I'm sure they were great, but I don't think it can. I don't know that anyone can name anyone but Kate, okay. Oh, no, it was like, and like you said, it was like, from like January to October the trial, and it's like hundreds of 150 some people and it's like a lot of characters and like, boom, and like you just

Kato Kaelin 27:01

kind of put the show in perspective, because there's a lot of embellishing especially that you know that the writer is based off. It's JEFFREY TOOBIN. So, you know, he's betting, petting cats on Zoom. So I mentioned before, that the Daily News, New York asked me, they gave me a screener, Jeff to watch the first one, they said, Hey, would you write an article for our, our newspaper? And I said, Oh, yeah, I see that. So I saw the screen, I wrote the first article, and they love that. So made me feel wonderful. And they said, do another one did another one. Next thing, you know, they signed me to do all 10 episodes. So and I knew going in Billy Magnussen, the actor, who's a great actor he didn't want to meet, which is fine. I think as an actor you want to meet. If you're playing somebody, regardless of anything, I want to meet the person even though I have my house, my set of how I want to play it. But he didn't want to do that. I knew that they were going to make me sort of like a Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High, but then he did an interview for People Magazine and some TV show. And the guy was fantastic. Billy Mays, it was like, I didn't want to meet Cato. I heard great things about him. I didn't want to hit my mindset. So he said everything. But he was so complimentary to me. I said, like, I love this guy. So for that part, I knew they were going to go with this book, holy Dum Dum Kaito. But I was fine with it. And when I wrote about it, at least I had a chance to explain myself, and they put the Kardashians in there a lot, because at that time, they knew Kardashians, even though they weren't in a lot of the trial. They put it in there because they've gotten billions of followers. And they're not they're not stupid at a network. It's like, get them in there. So they wrote a lot of stuff. Then by episode three, I said, they put me in situations in the show that I wasn't in. It wasn't at the when the SWAT team came, I was somewhere else but I'm there in the show. I'm there and I was like, Okay, there's too much Kaito from Kato and I started writing about, once again, it's a TV show there, they can embellish. They can do what they want a lot of it. There were facts, but a lot of it was fiction. And it one ate me. So credit goes to Ryan Murphy.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:00

You know, it's like it's like winning time. There's a lot of them that are saying, Oh, this is a horrible Jerry West. It's a horrible and my friends who were really into sports who know him when they watch the show. They have an issue with it. But like people like me who watch it, you know, it's like, oh, it's just it's a good show. You know, I can see where they would do that. They if you watch the old clips of you during the trial, you got that great hair you got you look like the surfer guy from California. So I think they're playing on the memory of of what of what it was.

Kato Kaelin 29:28

Yeah. 100% And like I said, I I roll with the punches. And that's it. Let them do that. You know, Billy Madison went on to do the last James Bond film, so he was sort of a villain in no time. The guy was like, Hey, that guy played Cato. It's kind of cool. It's like, Hey, man, belly Cato.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:45

Oh, there you go. So if so facto, the part I couldn't get over was David Schwimmer being Robert Kardashian. I just I couldn't wrap my head around. Ross Galler being Kim Kardashian, his dad, friends, as well. Look, it's Ross from Friends. He's Kim Kardashian.

Kato Kaelin 30:03

Was Shapiro on the cast. Yeah, that was, you know, Cooper Gooding is OJ, he was okay.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:11

Your perspective on it would be 100% different than if it had to be it must have been. It was probably a hard I think I saw a little bit of a clip of Marcia Clark realizing like you thought Sarah Paulson did such a good job that at some point she endeared herself to it a bit. Oh, yeah.

Kato Kaelin 30:29

They hung out. They've had lunches. She met she they definitely met a few times. I saw that on some I think it was when Marcia was doing Entertainment Tonight or whatever. They they struck up a friendship, which is fine.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:39

So as I was kind of digging into this, everyone met you when you were living with I know Jays property and has his guest house. But I and kind of just prepping to talk with you. I didn't realize you had lived with Nicole Brown prior to that for a whole year or so. And so that was that was interesting. So you were part of this hall Simpson's ecosystem for quite some time. It was

Kato Kaelin 31:03

yeah, I lived I saw the lifestyle and both sides. I think that's why that was really interesting to the prosecution. And the defense is I saw both sides. Just relationships. And I saw you know, and the Kardashian girls are just small girls and Nicole and the kids just in Sydney, they bought a dog and they said Mom, we want to name it Kato. And then we had Kaito The Akita it really was the COVID just was this loving mom, she went and running with her friends, Chris Kardashian in the mornings, I had a casting business with another actor, buddy of mine. So it's like everybody was busy and doing their own thing. But at that time, she was divorced. But when OJ would come by, I kept wanting them. They start dating again. And I was like, Oh, I never saw anything physical fighting only saw one time, the after effects of a 911 call that I came late to. And OJ was gone already. But he had broken down some doors. And I just remember Nicole, and I'm hammering the door shut again and broke these French doors that would open up. So that's the only time I didn't see it. But that was part of the trial in the transcripts. And that was it. I always said, like being raised to see my parents when they rarely fought. But if they did, they always ended up with a kiss. And I would say to them, why don't you guys just kiss more? And that was it. So I saw both sides. Was it

Jeff Dwoskin 32:19

weird then? Or did it how did it affect your friendship with Nicole when you started living with OJ

Kato Kaelin 32:25

well in the class, we need to move into the Bundy house. But the Monday house was not a guest house. It was inside the house. And I said no, I didn't feel right about that part of going there. And I was looking for a place to live. And then OJ just said we'll move in with me until you find a place and that was it. So at first Yes, she was upset because she thought that I was taking sides and I honestly wasn't taking sides at all.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:48

How long did you live in OJS guesthouse before the murder?

Kato Kaelin 32:52

Six and a half months seven with Nicole.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:54

Oh, wow. So you you you actually you were with OJ just before right? You guys went to McDonald's. Right? Sidenote, I guess

Kato Kaelin 33:02

my thing is the McDonald's story was he came to my guest house and knocked on the door to see if I could break 100 I didn't have and I said I got 240s And I said will you take it take this. And I used to run like the marathons and I run like 15 miles a day and I had not eaten I played basketball. And I just said oh, I'm starving. Can I go so I had no idea of where we're going and all that and McDonald's was not the kind of food I would eat so he drove and next thing you know we're at some McDonald's drive thru. So it wasn't a thing where I knew we're going to McDonald's it was just a place he drove to a drive thru I

Jeff Dwoskin 33:37

saw I we were talking about some of the it being your first trial and like some of the anxiety of like just being on a witness stand but I saw a clip of Marcia Clark talking to you about that. And it's it's amazing to me what lawyers the questions that I asked her like I you handed it to who did you hand it to? What side was that person on? You know, even like, what? driver's side for the drive thru? Okay,

Kato Kaelin 34:03

did you start we were at the McDonald's of London. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:07

Why did you go to this McDonald's? Not that McDonald's? Did he have I know she was trying to figure out if he had a cut on his hand at that point or not. So I think she was trying to get to but it was this like, every minut detail, that it's interesting when they try and get to the like, who remembers these things? Oh, yeah. I mean, we were at McDonald's, what do you want, you know,

Kato Kaelin 34:28

and I just, I remember him just just in my mind, I remember him I think it was a Big Mac, but he just took maybe two bites, it was gone. And he had you know, the French fries and all that and I just waited. I didn't want to eat the Bentley or the Rolls Royce, whatever whether the car was it was the nice, you know, the Grey Poupon? Rolls Royce

Jeff Dwoskin 34:45

was OJ like, did he eat McDonald's a lot because there and the reason I'm asking is apparently when he got out of jail for the stealing that football stuff he stole his first meal was McDonald's.

Kato Kaelin 34:59

That's so bizarre. I didn't No, that's a fun fact up to look that up. I had no idea. I know, I didn't know his food habits. I rarely rarely even saw him. And he just happened to be that night. I think, in hindsight, I'm pretty sure that was to establish an alibi.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:12

So did you not hang out with him a lot. You just happen to hang out with them.

Kato Kaelin 35:16

Yeah, that was rarely because he was at NBC at the time and gone a lot. And I just had the I was just the guy in the guest house. It was in the main house. So I even thought when I did my, the transcripts, I thought it was sort of unusual that he actually came to my room, because it's maybe once he did it before, that's it,

Jeff Dwoskin 35:32

man. So I gotta say, for OJ for acting Naked Gun movies. He was great. And

Kato Kaelin 35:39

he's great. You know, what the thing about my wedding I told you is that David Zucker and people that don't know that David wrote that film and directed Naked Gun. And I think everybody coming to the wedding, I just said, Thank you so much, David, thank you for the use of your house. But more importantly, David, thank you for not inviting Norberg.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:57

David, right. That's right. David's aka The Naked Gun. I love the Naked Gun movie. So much police squad that it was based on was one of the best TV shows it was actually I read a whole thing on that one set, it failed, ultimately, because it was so intelligent. You literally had to watch it. Like you had to watch it to understand the jokes and what was going on. Because it was so detailed, where most things the hour long dramas or whatever, you can come in pretty much 40 minutes in and you can figure out what happened, right? But that and the Naked Gun was the only movie really ever based on a failed TV show.

Kato Kaelin 36:29

Now, it's also built like you said it was successful because it built a cult following with people like yourself and me and I was even I remember when bliss squad wasn't renewed, it was cut. I was like, Are they kidding me? This is brilliant. This show

Jeff Dwoskin 36:45

was so good. Yeah. Anyone who is listening, you should definitely go Google that find it on YouTube or something. Leslie Nielsen was just a genius, a comedy. And I think his early work was all like drama stuff, too. Right? And it's like, it's funny.

Kato Kaelin 36:58

He's also an airplane. So the relationship went unless he did airplanes, though, was the right pick. They knew go with Leslie Nielsen. Cool. Funny. I became friends with search for David Robert Hayes, you know, Stryker in airplane. So all these relationships, and it's so funny, Jeff, how things go full circle, when you're growing up, you go, kinda would like to meet this person one day. And, and this, I always thought David Zucker, oh, my god is from Wisconsin, I got to meet him. And it just kind of all happens. It may take five years, 10 years, 20 years, but I just think when things are supposed to happen, they sort of are once again, stars aligning, and it's all timing. It's like, alright, if there's a God, wherever he's going, now, it's your time to meet this person.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:38

So yeah, the universe always has has a plan. The universe always has a plan. Alright, so that's cool. So I so back to the anxiety earlier, right. Let's go back to the anxiety because I had I had a question, a train of thought that I think I forgot. So one of the things that happened was after the murder, you heard a bomb or whatever, right? You heard some stuff. And so then you go out side, kind of walking around, and then you just go back, right? And then later, Mark Furman finds the glove, where you were basically, you ever play out in your head, five more steps

Kato Kaelin 38:15

all the time. So what happened was, is when the police came into my room, they detectives, I said that. I said, maybe this is nothing. One of those things that you're seeing in TV shows like maybe this is nothing, but I said though, there's no windows in the room I was in against the wall is just a wall, but there's a picture. And I said, my picture moved. And I heard these I dump the stuff that happened and made the picture moves. I said, Oh, my God, we we I think we had an earthquake, but it was behind this wall. So I told all the Jacksons of our firm and one of them I was on the phone when it was happening. And the person I was talking to I asked her I said, Hey, did you separate earthquake? I think I felt an earthquake. And then she said, No, I didn't feel anything. So then I kept hearing like a buzzing noise and the buzzing noise. It happened to be Ellen Park, the limo driver. And it was ringing. I could hear from the other part of this ringing coming because it was quiet in the other house of going what's going on. And that made me go outside. But in hindsight, it was kind of a spooky, for lack of better words of going out there because it was sort of a June gloom. In La we had this June Gloom from the oceans that come in towards Brentwood, and it was just the entire night even before everything that I knew. It just seemed like one of those nights like it was a night that there would be a werewolf if you can picture that that's what it looked like and then the rest is history so they found that glove

Jeff Dwoskin 39:36

right and that's been a nightmare in your head but I the way I pictured it yeah you go boom, boom, boom, and you're like oh, because you bumped into OJ a little bit later but you know boom boom boom you bump into him right there could be a story plays out

Kato Kaelin 39:49

because I can't because it says that connected but I think the theory of to this day for a lot of people are there was an air conditioning unit sticking out that he probably rent jumped in there. allegedly over a wall, hit it in a glove dropped,

Jeff Dwoskin 40:03

got it on their smartphone and put it back because he was racist.

Kato Kaelin 40:07

Yeah, you know, I've got the leading tech where there's quite a few of the detector, the four of them the lead detective Tom Lange, I became somewhat of a friend of Tom's and he also did the Wonderland murder. So he has a history. And I always find it fascinating. You know, after the trial, and during, at so many interviews with them, that obviously it's like talking to you, you kind of feel like you know, someone and so we immediately become friends, like, Let's hang out and have lunch. But you can tell there's a camaraderie. And Tom is going to be my guest on the one degree of scandalous and I cannot wait not just about OJ just to talk about how, how they think, and the kind of the questioning of what they look for. Like I said, it's fascinating to me, of the psychology of a detective and how they deal with crime and crime scenes and nightmares and having a wife and how do you separate your life? Your family, you know, you want your family to work and this distress, you know, police work is the number one divorce rate. And I know what's like so interesting, I'm gonna find out.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:11

Yeah, that'd be an interesting one to listen to. The whole psyche of so many of these professions is so so interesting. What makes them do what they do. And you know, when it's it's so dark and gloomy.

Kato Kaelin 41:23

And the good news for you and me is the divorce rate for podcasters is less than 1%.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:29

Oh, I did want to ask you one question about landmark libel case. So

Kato Kaelin 41:34

well, that's, that's one of the things that I cannot discuss. That was I know, you asked him beforehand, but that's anyways, you look great.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:41

You look great. Okay, so you can't talk about this. Can I say it and you just not react? Okay. Okay. Yes. All right. Well, you were part of a landmark libel lawsuit that then did find eventually that headlines could be considered libel that I thought that was what the interesting thing was that they had skewed something towards you, and you push back. And they changed the law, which I thought was cool. And we'll leave it at that. All right.

Kato Kaelin 42:08

I know for a fact that I can say that in law books that I've given. I've gone to different colleges, law students, where I've done speeches, and they bring up and this is the cool part is that it's an every law book.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:19

That is really cool. It's so I guess we'll have to read about it in law books that you can talk about. And then just because everyone will get mad at me if I don't ask how Jay did it or didn't do

Kato Kaelin 42:29

it? In my opinion, I said a man shows I think, oh, Jay is guilty, in my opinion. Right? The jury jury found him not guilty. I think Roberts Kardashians I think that's one of the most iconic things to see his reaction with that reading.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:43

Oh, yeah. When you can pay for millions and millions of dollars for lawyers. I think that's one of the lessons learned from the whole OJ case.

Kato Kaelin 42:52

Okay, say Robert Kardashian or David Schwimmer

Jeff Dwoskin 42:56

right either one you can't get get Ross alright important question is the other huge major pop culture milestone that you are part of at least in my personal world? You are in the last Sharknado it's about time

Kato Kaelin 43:10

I actually I call it sharp cadeaux

Jeff Dwoskin 43:15

My only question is how do they wait to six to get Kato Kaelin has a cameo it's like they went all cameo heavy on two they started but three on I mean it was like boom. So I'm glad you were eventually in it. Was that fun? At least Can you talk about

Kato Kaelin 43:30

fun time I agree with you. I kept setting myself I said How am I not in one of these yard natives and then I got the phone call and Jordan Kato six. I said yes. That is easy. Shoot for two days. Just do your thing. And then you go to the premiere. And you're like, Oh, my God, I was in there for an eyeblink. But at least I can say I was in one of the shark. NATO's because it is sort of iconic.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:50

It is iconic. It's It seriously is one of my favorite. I love all the Sharknado movies I was obsessed with anytime as a Sharknado. And someone's IMDb I'm like yes. And then did you do a guest house talk super. Did you do a run on there?

Kato Kaelin 44:05

Oh, yeah, I did two episodes talk soup. But I do know for a fact that supposedly the hosts that I Greg Kinnear but still to this day, that's the highest rated episode ever in toxic history.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:18

Oh, I believe that I had house sparks on the show. He was a toxic guy for a while I was like hell host of toxic to me. It was always like the dream job.

Kato Kaelin 44:26

Yeah. Oh, no, that's a great job. You know, I did the I had when I when the trial was going on that one of the first shows that they did. I'm still to this day friends of Bill Maher, but he asked me to do politically incorrect. And that was my meeting a Gary Shandling and Gary didn't want to meet me because he waited for the show because he didn't want to hit me. He told me later quiet many times after that event that he didn't want to like maybe he had to set jokes. But it was to this day one of the just one of the best experiences because of still being friends with Bill today and until as being just that the energy of that hope limited correct episode was, to me it was sort of fascinating and it was in Gary's HBO within a documentary, and that opened the show with Judd Apatow. It's a documentary about Gary's life.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:14

I love Gary Shandling he was one of my favorite comics and it's such a such a loss. I did want to let me wrap up with how did you feel about David spades portrayal of you on Saturday Night Live you know,

Kato Kaelin 45:26

it's so funny that you said this today. This morning I did like a workout and I look at a lot of the podcasts I look at what's going on so David Spade and David Kirby have a fly on the wall Pat podcast and their guests is Martin Short and I was gonna write in my comments three people all did Kato they all were Kato impersonators at the time. And in the order. Nothing about David was Martin Short. Nailed it. Dana Carvey and David Spade wore a tie. But Martin Short did the best cable. I thought it was me when I first saw it on it special. But yeah, I know David, he's great calm. They're all great data. We love podcasts, the studio, Dana Carvey son, so it's pretty exciting that oh my god, I've always loved Dana Carvey now his son is runs the studio, we do our podcast app.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:13

And then we talked earlier about like how people Versus OJ sort of had that character sure isation of you but on that episode of Saturday live the joke was from Norm Macdonald. Cato spent four days on the witness stand this week making it the longest job he's ever held. I love it or that but you know but people take from Sunday live and then that's the opinion they'll go forward with there's so much political stuff that just gets fed you from Zara alive not just about you but just anything you know and I think they know that and and so you know, some of that feeding into it and then David Spade

Kato Kaelin 46:48

Oh yeah, well, I was I was elite that was the lead job for many many months at Letterman and Leno and then the norm joke turned out to be normal and meet and he and I had golf probably 50 times together the late norm McDonald's and became you know friends from golfing and basketball together you know, it's so funny he's talking with you Jeff, is that you've got me rolling in my mind with all these things are going like oh my god I forgot that that and I'm gonna bring this up on one degree of scandalous all the things you brought up helped me out so much and can I do a plug which I hate doing? Yeah, no, go ahead. Please. I would love for everybody to follow me on Instagram. It's Kaito underscore Kailyn at K to underscore K e li N Kato Kaelin subscribed if you can the link to my bio on that for our one degree of scandalous podcast but times that are on Apple Spotify podcast one wherever you guys get your podcast and subscribe to the YouTube so you can see our pretty faces the other sharks is ice cores on its price by the MMA fighting and ice and who will be the next king of the rink Jeff did I nail it

Jeff Dwoskin 47:53

or what you now that you think you did that for a living or something but Kato thank you so much this was a lot of fun I really appreciate you hanging out with me I'm glad we finally were able to connect and have this conversation

Kato Kaelin 48:05

completely I really really appreciate it that you didn't I wasn't putting you off and I can tell you don't think I did but I wanted you to know I didn't I wasn't and I'm so glad I did this thank you so much and thank you everybody listening to this podcast he is the best you rule my friend thank you

Jeff Dwoskin 48:21

thank you so much All right let me hit Stop Recording Stop all right now you can tell me the real oh no cut off and Kato revealed so much amazing stuff about the trial oh that was off the record but I thought I anyway alright well maybe we'll recover it we'll do a we'll do a part two I kid I kid how amazing was Kato Kaelin after the interview moved into my guest house he's been here ever since he's a delightful guest let me say that right off the bat I did I did all right what Kato was awesome check out ice wars check out one degree of scandalous his podcast going YouTube deep dive into the OJ Simpson murder trial. Get your fix of Kato Kaelin it's all out there. All right well with the interview over that can only mean one thing. That's right. It's time for another trending hashtag from the family of hashtags. It hashtag round up, download the free always free hashtag roundup app at the Google Play Store or iTunes App Store. tweet along with us and one day one of your tweets may show up on a future episode of Classic conversations, fame and fortune awaits you. Today's hashtag comes to us from Rolie polie tags a weekly Game On hashtag round up inspired of course by Kato Kaelin this podcast comes the hashtag #HowIEndedUpOnATrueCrimePodcast. People went to Twitter to share how they ended up on a true crime podcast and hilarity ensued. All right, let's read some #HowIEndedUpOnATrueCrimePodcast tweets ripping off the mattress tag. Oh, that'll get you on a true crime Pack. cast. I told my mom I wasn't going to do the dishes. Disrespect can lead nowhere good. I never returned my last rental to Blockbuster. Whoo. That's a rough one. #HowIEndedUpOnATrueCrimePodcast sat too close to allow joueur I can only imagine what happened next. I bumped into Steve Martin Martin Short and Selena Gomez in the elevator of the art konia. That is definitely one way to end up on a true crime podcast. I drank a fifth instead of pleading the fifth. That can lead nowhere good. I turned right at Albuquerque. Oh, you should have turned left. I walked into the wrong room. But there were snacks. I would have stayed to their snacks. You got to stay. It's rude not to my husband told me to calm down. Oh, I bet you ended up on more than one true crime podcast after that happened. I falsely claimed I could fold a fitted sheet. First of all who would ever believe you? And then our final how I ended up on a true crime podcast tweet. The glove fit. Oh, there we go. All right. You knew one of those was coming up right? Those tweets are all retweeted at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter. Go show him some love. If you got your own. Add your own. Tweet it tag us at Jeff Dwoskin show I'll show you some Twitter love. In the meantime, though, with the hashtag over and the interview over the call. I mean one thing that's right, Episode 158 has come to an end. I want to thank my special guest Kato Kaelin and of course I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

CTS Announcer 51:46

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Classic conversations. If you liked what you heard, don't be shy and give us a follow on your favorite podcast app. But also, why not go ahead and tell all your friends about the show? You strike us as the kind of person that people listen to. Thanks in advance for spreading the word and we'll catch you next time on classic conversations.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai