#140 Jay Kogen talks about The Simpsons, Mike Myers, Frasier, writing, directing, winning an Emmy, Tracey Ullman, and Mad Magazine

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:31

All right, March thank you so much for that amazing introduction. And you get the show going each and every week and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody. The conversation was classic eyes.

Jeff Dwoskin 0:47

Somebody at Google Translate and read that in Spanish. All right, I'm gonna 60 I welcome everybody to classic conversations. As always, I am your host Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for another classic episode. We got a great one for you today. Oh, yes, we do. Emmy Award winner Jay Kogan, is here that's right everybody. Jay Kogan, producer, writer, actor, director, Emmy Award winner, he won that award for Frasier. We talked about that. We talked about working on The Tracey Ullman Show, we talked about the Groundlings we talked about all the cool stuff he did is one of the very first people with The Simpsons, helping build that world tons of great Simpsons stories. Also tons of great stories about his collaborations with Mike Myers and we get a heads up on Jays upcoming podcast, which sounds like it's going to be amazing. So little heads up on that. Get your pens and papers ready to jot that down. Alright, my conversation with Jay Kogan is coming up in just a few minutes if you have it and why wouldn't you have?

Jeff Dwoskin 2:02

I hope you didn't miss my interview with Eric Allen Kramer episode 138 Oh my God, that's a great episode. You're gonna love it. You're Good Luck Charlie fan, Bob Duncan. Eric was in True Romance. You're like a Marvel fan. Eric Allen Kramer was the first Mighty Thor in The Incredible Hulk returns with Lou Ferrigno as the Hulk way back when way before Chris Hemsworth grabbed that hammer boom, Eric Allen Kramer, we talked about that, and so much more. That's a really fun episode. Check that out. We had a bonus episode last week as well. With excerpts from our live show we do every Wednesday at 9:30pm Eastern Time crossing the streams, the bonus episodes, pull segments from the 75 Plus shows that are waiting for you on YouTube on our YouTube channel. You know crossing the streams as our live show we do that's chock full of TV binge watching suggestions, do not miss it to my co stars on crossing the street in Sal Demilio and Bob Phillips. I actually this past week had the honor of doing a live comedy show with them and Genetti's hole in the wall in Michigan. That was super fun photos on my personal Instagram. If you follow me there, check that out. It was a lot of fun actually being in the same room with sound Bob had been a long time since we weren't just virtual. So check that out, check out the bonus episodes, check us out on YouTube, you won't regret it.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:28

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Jeff Dwoskin 3:40

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Jeff Dwoskin 5:20

All right, I think it's time to get to my interview with Jay Kogan I can hear you guys share it already all right here I am. Jay Kogan is hilarious the whole conversation we just had a super fun time talking to talk a lot about Jays family got a super famous dad, Arnie Kogan, his wife super famous brown Mandel, she's an accomplished writer as well. And Brown and Jay have an amazing son Charlie Kogan, who is a singer songwriter. I am in love with his album on Spotify. We talked about that as well. I could fall and kafele on Alright, enough build up. Here's my conversation with Jay Kogan. All right I am excited to introduce you to my next guest executive producer, writer. Actor. Director. credits include The Tracey Ullman Show Simpsons Malcolm in the Middle Fraser and a million more welcome to the show Emmy Award winner Jay Kogan, welcome to the show, Jay.

Jay Kogen 6:23

Thank you, oh my god, that applause was marvelous.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:27

Let's sit down. We gotta get going. Because you guys

Jay Kogen 6:31

don't have to do that. So I'm just like you. I'm just like you,

Jeff Dwoskin 6:35

just like me, and everyone else, just like all of us. Thank you put your pants on one leg at a time.

Jay Kogen 6:42

Actually, I don't because I would change gymnast and actually take them both at the same time I jump into my pants, but other than that I'm a very normal person.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:53

I would like to see that in a separate video. Very cool. All right. So a lot of things. You come from a very entertainment family. Your father was a famous writer, Emmy Award winner as well. You then do your remains, still is and remains a famous writer. You went on to make your own famous family with your wife and your four.

Jay Kogen 7:15

Were kind of like the von Trapps of Encino. Like, those are like Southern San Fernando Valley been traps,

Jeff Dwoskin 7:22

right? Well, your wife wrote to have we're friends fanatics. And okay, and so your wife brown Randolph, she wrote the one with Barry and Mindy's wedding and the one with chickenpox. That's right. Two amazing episodes. Two amazing. She's

Jay Kogen 7:39

a very incredibly talented writer. I am not, I'm maybe the second or third best writer in my household,

Jeff Dwoskin 7:46

your son Charlie's incredible,

Jay Kogen 7:48

but you couldn't get the other two. So that's why I'm talking to you. If you had a better Booker, you'd get the other ones who are better writers,

Jeff Dwoskin 7:57

right? Your son, or your son's manager just kept ignoring my calls and and Brahm just kept going to voicemail. How did you meet your wife where you guys was both writers and you kind of just

Jay Kogen 8:07

I met my wife at my buddy's birthday party, my buddy Rob Cohen, who was the writer was dating her. And it was a birthday party supposed to be me and my girlfriend, and Rob and his girlfriend, which is Brian Mandel. And my girlfriend, couldn't show didn't make it. And so it was just the birthday party. It was really just me robbing her. And so that's where I first got to know her. Two years later. I'm single, she's single. And we meet again, because we work at Universal Studios across from each other in different shows we're doing and we start, you know, saying hi, and passing each other hallways and stuff. And then one thing led to another and now we're married for almost 25 years.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:49

Your son Charlie, an amazing songwriter. Yeah. And a good

Jay Kogen 8:53

writer, writer. Like he writes plays and stuff. He's really funny, but his music is unbelievable. Now, I say that as a proud father, but I actually I'm a fan. I'm just a big fan of his music. And I was listening to Harry Nielsen this morning seeing a documentary on Harry Nelson. I'm thinking yeah, Charlie Kogan, has a lot of Harry Nilsson so like, you know, that's, I see when I look at Brian Wilson or Harry Nielsen or Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, I see a lot of my son he

Jeff Dwoskin 9:21

had a lot of a lot of really cool influences you could tell his style was I know I emailed you after I listened to the album twice. I've now listened to it many more times. It became my background and I started listening I really I because I want to make it clear. Yeah, this is I am not under no obligation. I am not I No, no, but I mean, like I would never say it with this much.

Jay Kogen 9:44

I believe you. Second of all, if you're not the first and I know really people who listen to it, it gets very addicting and the only complaint is he doesn't produce enough music like there should be more Charlie Kogan music out there and give you go on Spotify. If your listeners that 10s of 1000s of listeners to the show should go on Spotify and listen to Charlie Kogan that's k OGN. And if you like smart lyrics, really great melodies, really good music production that's what you get. It's like it's not it's almost a throwback a little bit to another era, but it's still I really like

Jeff Dwoskin 10:23

I think one of the things that kind of caught me is I had a friend that would find music like that meaning like great music that you didn't know existed and, and so I just kept thinking of him and so like, yeah, so it was it's called Songs from the front seat is the album there's a couple of extra songs out there also. Alright, so everyone check that out. There's your bonus little Charlie bonus for a Charlie Kogen

Jay Kogen 10:44

that's what that's what it's all about. So I'm here to promote him because he's too fucking lazy to promote himself.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:50

He's so good. I saw a video of him and he's got he's has the hair that I had. I don't know how old he is, but he's seems much younger. Right now

Jay Kogen 10:58

he's 20 But yeah, he's got hair. But you know that doesn't stay. Yeah and the Kogan family, it's not the other my dad as a full head. Err. So I don't know. I hit it last me.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:08

I had no forehead and yeah,

Jay Kogen 11:11

I'm all forehead now.

Jeff Dwoskin 11:12

So all right, Jeff, how

Jay Kogen 11:14

do you how did you become a podcast? I'm fascinated. You're sitting here and professional equipment. You've got a boom mic, which I'm jealous of. And uh, how do you how do you decide one day I'm gonna become a podcaster?

Jeff Dwoskin 11:25

Well, I do stand up comedy. So I've been doing that for pushing 20 years. And when the pandemic hit, I had no creative outlet. So like many stories that you hear of the positive side of, of what came out of the pandemic, where a lot of creative endeavors blossomed. This was mine. So you just

Jay Kogen 11:44

you shot right past sourdough bread and went to the podcast,

Jeff Dwoskin 11:47

let's just say, the reason I was able to shoot right to podcast is because in 2017, I started the podcast and may 2020. In 2017, I bought all the equipment. It sat on my desk, as long as my wife would allow it before it ended up in a box. And then when the pandemic had, I finally was able to get it out of the box, got it, and then started it

Jay Kogen 12:10

because I'm thinking of starting my own podcast, you said, it's basically a show about your podcast. Like,

Jeff Dwoskin 12:16

those are really big right now. Yeah, each episode would

Jay Kogen 12:19

be about each episode of your podcast, and then go back and review it with other people and we sort of break it down.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:25

That would be those are so hot right now. I

Jay Kogen 12:28

would love ya know,

Jeff Dwoskin 12:29

I would subscribe and then

Jay Kogen 12:31

I want to do a reaction video of people listening to my podcast about your podcast and just what they think just like on YouTube, just that a video of them listening to it.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:40

I'm worried that your podcast would become more popular than my podcasts. Then would we go?

Jay Kogen 12:46

I'm really I actually have a podcast that I'm starting to make called Don't be alone with Jay Kogan.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:51

I like it I like it when you're launching when you're launching.

Jay Kogen 12:54

I don't know. It's it took you three years. Give me a shot. Give me a sec. Give me a goddamn second. You have 2017 to 2020 I need I need a few weeks. But I go soon. My son is supposed to write music for it. And I'm just really waiting for the music.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:10

Oh, that's good. Yeah, yeah. Originally, I'm in social media and all that originally, my podcast in 2017 was gonna be a social media base business tips, and it was gonna be called viral intentions. Because, you know, things go viral on the internet and it was a play on Cruel Intentions the movie and so when I finally when the pandemic hit, and it was 2020 and I pull everything out online, and I had everything intro outro are everything ready to go on? Like people are dying all over? I'm like, I can't launch a podcast called viral intentions.

Jay Kogen 13:43

I purposely chose the name Don't be alone with Jay Kogan to be you know, double entendre. It's a worrying title. First of all, I wanted to do a podcast about connectivity and how people connect and how people don't connect in this particular day and age and finding ways to get more connection in your life that's not screen based. I'll figure figure that out. I'm am I qualified to make such a podcast? I think absolutely not. No, I'm not making but I will. I will do it anyway.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:12

I think if anything has been proven, you don't have to be qualified.

Jay Kogen 14:15

That's right. I have that quality of qualification that are not qualified.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:20

All right, so before the podcast launches went a little Jay Kogan yes growing up with a father writer of Mad Magazine or who by the way MAD magazine I was obsessed with like many kids as a kid but I used to cut out all of the all the little strips and stuff and I literally made wallpaper in my bedroom. My entire one the margins the margin art, like all the art like every Okay, I did. So if like you walked in every square inch of my thing was now wallpaper Mad Magazine love that's

Jay Kogen 14:52

like serial killer stuff.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:55

Yeah, yeah. Looking back. Yes. So I so obviously you had a huge influence.

Jay Kogen 15:01

Let me Jeff Yeah, how old age range you don't have to give me the exact but how old are you? 50 ish. 50. Okay, so 50 ish. So you when you were five or six Mad Magazine was the thing. But then pretty soon after that either you switched over two if you're young if you're old enough National Lampoon, or maybe spy magazine or something like that, depending upon where your your humor lay, like mad. Mad Magazine seems to be the perfect for somebody who is under 12, right?

Jeff Dwoskin 15:31

I never like oh, man magazine. I was. I was hardcore. I still subscribe. No, I don't. Well, I

Jay Kogen 15:37

saw somebody let go

Jeff Dwoskin 15:39

as a as a kid, I was hardcore, dedicated. Yeah, but sure. But I only knew what I knew. I may not even been aware of spy magazine and all those. So I knew spy versus spy. But that was

Jay Kogen 15:52

sure that's right for Mad Magazine. But, you know, a Mad Mad Magazine. I grew up with Mad Magazine, I grew up I actually went to the Mad Magazine offices, and I always imagined it would be some crazy, wild nutty place. And he was the most boring, like, like accountants, but you know, they were like in an old building dusty cut, you know, very sort of old secretaries quietly typing. It was like, the saddest experience in my life was going to the offices of Mad Magazine think these crazy band of idiots. There's nothing crazy going on here. There's you know, there's a ledger That's the craziest thing that was happening.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:26

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Yeah,

Jay Kogen 16:30

but Bill Gates office was cool. His particular office was more like your bedroom. When you were a kid filled with junk everywhere.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:36

When your dad I stopped, you know, I think I stopped you. And I was just Yes. And it was cool, then. I mean, did you love having been with Mad Magazine being so hot? Your dad being such a huge part of it? Right? Yeah, I

Jay Kogen 16:48

got a lot of juice for my friends because I was they like Mad Magazine. And I had access to that because my dad was right about access to the magazine. And those books. They used to send us like Al Jaffe books or whatever. And I had access to them, so I could hand them out sometimes. So that was my, that was my power in second and third grade. But that power fell by the wayside very quickly. Over time over, same thing. My dad was a writer, producer of like The Carol Burnett Show and some variety shows and then eventually did Donnie and Marie show and it's just at the time, tiny Marie was kind of okay for elementary school students. But just when I got into junior high, it was very clear. They were not cool. And there was no gives me no juice to be had from having a dad in showbusiness, but doing the dining ratio, so I would keep that on the download.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:38

Talk about some other dark years. Yeah.

Jay Kogen 17:41

Talking about other projects that were might have been cooler that he had done. He did rich

Jeff Dwoskin 17:45

little show Tim Conway show Auntie NAS he wrote one episode of The Love Boat.

Jay Kogen 17:50

He did. He did, he wrote, he wrote many, many, many, many shows. And they're all I've seen most of them. And he's he's a great writer. Every time I write a pilot, I give it to him, say, make this better. And he'll always have good notes and good jokes and stuff like that, you know, it's great. The other thing was when I was a kid, he valued laughter. So I used to try and make him laugh. And that ultimately encouraged me to be a comedian and a writer. So that kind of helped. He was a silly man at work at his work. He was a silly man, he would put whipped cream on his face and fall into rooms and Duke that kind of stuff at home. Not so silly. Well, that is

Jeff Dwoskin 18:27

not how it usually is like your dad or whoever is funny at work. My dad was a funny dentist. So yeah, yeah. To his patients at least, but

Jay Kogen 18:37

better, better to be the funny dentist and the really depressing dentists.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:41

Exactly. Yeah. So this influence this was a huge influence on you then. And but did you Oh, my God,

Jay Kogen 18:46

gigantic. Yeah.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:47

So did you then know that you're like, I'm going to be a writer? Or did you want to

Jay Kogen 18:51

Oh, I knew really, really early, I had no desire at all to be a writer, like really, very early from like, the earliest memories were my dad alone in his office, unhappily typing. And I thought, Oh, that's a terrible job, I do not want that job. And to this day, the worst part of my job is actually writing is actually doing with that job, which is sitting alone in an office trying to think of something funny, and then hacking away at an empty page or, you know, computer empty computer screen. I hated it. And I still to this day, don't love it, but they wouldn't pay me to be a stand up. They wouldn't really pay. I got a few jobs to stand up few jobs as an actor, but as a writer, they started paying me so it turns out that was my value. That marketplace determined what I should be. And even though I didn't want to be a writer, they made me a writer.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:38

Well, you gave it a swing at stand up. And you're you were in the Groundlings too, right?

Jay Kogen 19:41

Yeah, yeah, I was. Yeah, so I mean, and the Groundlings is the place where you know, it's a it's a it's a waystation you don't want to become king of the Groundlings is to become lost forever. In an improv troupe and never working, but it's a nice place to learn and a nice little sort of, you know, environment and I still am grateful to the Groundlings and improv in general for rescuing me from stand up which was horrifying, horrifying. Yeah, well, I I started when I was 16 years old, it was very young club scene not great for really young kids. It's just like it was had the things to recommend it. But also, I was not there are really young comedians who can make the scene who are like hanging out with the boys in the back. I was not one of those guys, I was more innocent than than that. And also just uncomfortable. I couldn't make that scene. So that social world of bitter comedians, people who are drinking or taking drugs, or smoking cigarettes, or you know, just shitting on each other, like insulting each other and trying to pick up on ladies, none of that was what I could do when I was 16. So I moved off of stand up fairly quickly within a year and then moved over to improv. And at the Groundlings, the big diff, one of the big differences was it was a theater and not a nightclub. And then a nightclub. People are drinking and talking and heckling. And a theater people are much better mannered. there to see a show. So I didn't have to work on my my crowd work. And my ad settled people, I had more of an opportunity to try and just write scenes and characters and that kind of thing. And stand up comedy, you have to sort of perfect a persona of some kind, what's your brand? What kind of comedy do you do? And then at the Groundlings, you could be many different things. And that was more appealing to me. Very cool, especially since my persona as a stand up comedian was not great.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:29

It's hard. It takes time to find a voice and do all that exactly. But if we know that since we know the end story, probably acting and creating all different kinds of characters is something that was still act, I'm

Jay Kogen 21:41

still happy to act. And I love directing. Directing is one of my favorite things these days, I don't get a chance to do it often. Because no one will hire me but me. But when I get to hire myself to do stuff, it's my favorite thing. Because it's a really collaborative, it's fun. It's on its feet. It's about motion and action and visualization. And that's the kind of stuff that I really enjoy. I don't get to exercise that as much when I'm writing writing is very verbal, and it's oral and not oral, but oral. And it's about hearing the sounds and the music and the words and the timing and all that kind of stuff. It's just a different muscle. So I really like the directing muscle.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:16

So one of your director credits on IMDb is 2008 MTV Movie Awards, Mike Meyers segments, yes. What's your connection with Mike Myers specifically?

Jay Kogen 22:27

Well, Mike and I used to work a lot together on a lot of different things. I worked I worked on all the Austin Powers movies, and I worked on the Shrek movies. I made a movie called the wrong guy many years ago. Mike Myers that Dave Foley, it's one of Mike Myers favorite movies, or at least it was at the time, he said I want to talk about wrong guy stuff in my movies and said, Okay, I'll give you what I got. And so I would work collaborate with him and try to come up with funny bits and in the MTV Movie Awards, I got to direct Mike, which is basically turned the camera on Mike it's not there was no you know, Scorsese like this is what it is turn the camera on Mike let him do stuff and then edit it do some, some some editing, then show it to Mike and make sure Mike approves and then put back the stuff Mike lines, you know, so it wasn't it wasn't our tour business, but it was really just being a nice sort of comedy partner or even comedy assistant to Mike Myers. Which is a good job. He's really funny.

Jeff Dwoskin 23:24

Oh, yeah. For that period of time back then. I mean, it was Yeah. So hot. is he bringing back that character? I had to read that he was bringing it back.

Jay Kogen 23:33

Austin Powers? Yeah. Every few years, I hear that there's a new Austin Powers in the making. And then it doesn't appear yet. But maybe, I hope so. It's really funny. You know, I don't know. I mean, Mike seems to be a very happy father and living in New York and just and enjoying his life. So he has enough money and it doesn't need to work. So I don't think he doesn't end up painful to do what he does is a very painful process. Again, we're describing the pain of comedy, the work, it's hard to sit and write, it's hard to be a character and risks being a comedian on screen. It's a very risky business and you feel that pressure to be funny. And that pressure to be funny is antithetical to sort of the light joy that you're supposed to project when you are being Austin Powers. So it's one of those things where he had to repress all your insecurities and your anger and your upsetness and then project light and funny and, and he was able to do it for a long time, but it was really, you know, takes a toll. And it's also more of a young man's game than an older man's game. And maybe, you know, maybe people don't want to see an older fella in his 50s dressed up in goofy makeup. I don't know. Well,

Jeff Dwoskin 24:43

hopefully one day he'll find the right character to kind of come back I think I feel like that's what usually happens. Maybe if

Jay Kogen 24:48

he did that gone. The Gong Show remake that was done a few years ago. He played a strange sort of music hall character on that thing, which is something I think he really wanted to do and he like If that idea, and then there was a sketch show that he was going to do that never wound up appearing but stutter steps. I hope he comes back to it because he is enormous ly talented, enormously smart and incredibly gifted.

Jeff Dwoskin 25:13

The other thing I found with Mike Myers that was attached to your name when I did a Google was the you were connected to a remake of The Secret Life of Walter Mitty that way, Mike Myers This is before the Ben Stiller 2013. Back in 2,007/20 Century

Jay Kogen 25:31

Fox owned the rights somehow or was dealing with the rights of the Walter Mitty movie, which was made by Samuel Goldman's company many years ago, Danny Kaye was the original Star. And I love that movie. I mean, the Danny Kaye Walter Mitty was one of my favorite movies, one of my father's favorite movies growing up and he showed it to me a million times. And so I really liked that movie. And I thought, Oh, great, we'll get the court jester and then Mike had his own ideas as he always does about what the what not Cortez is welcome at what Walter Mitty should be and what they make it different and interesting. And so we we set about to write an outline of his version of Walter Mitty And suffice to say that it was very difficult process between Mike being an incredibly creative person and the studio wanting basically a very formulaic version of Walter Mitty a man who is timid but then dreams and then uses those dreams to propel himself forward, ultimately didn't mesh up. Like many movies I've started, I did not finish, but then we tried and then it went to one or two other comedian stops before it got to Ben Stiller. And then Ben got excited about doing it his way. And then he made that movie. So there you go. And I you know, I think the idea of Walter Mitty is a great idea. You don't need the auspices of the Thurber short stories to make that timid person grows out of their timidity to become an actualized human that's a story that a lot of people do and it's I never get tired of it. I think it's a very good premise for a story to awaken yourself. awaken yourself is a good premise.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:03

Oh, what could have been what could have been? Yeah, that's

Jay Kogen 27:05

all right. I'm not I don't mourn the loss of it because the outline we wrote which was literally which was had a certain amount of insanity to it would have been a fine movie, but there was no way anybody I as I was writing it, I knew no way anybody was going to make this movie about it had Nazis in it and had this before Trump made Nazis cool again.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:26

There goes half my audience now just

Jay Kogen 27:29

I'm not a fan of the Nazis. Let me just put it that way. When I was born, I didn't think you had to say that. But now apparently you do have to make it very clear that you're not a fan of Nazis.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:37

I never heard this a slip it in the conversation. Yeah,

Jay Kogen 27:39

that was, I think ghosts and Nazis and spies and secret fortresses. And under New York under Manhattan, there was a whole world going on, because a lot of different things actually happening in that movie that were a million different reasons, both financially and commercially. We're not going to be doing Sammy and Samuel Goldwyn Jr, who at the time was alive and 1000 years old, was had to give their seal of approval on this thing, which was sort of a jewel in the crown of his father's work, and there's no way he was going to sign off on that for you know, this is like, this is the thing and I, I imagined, I think he he had passed by the time Ben Stiller did his but we had we had to go through the gauntlet of Sam Goldwyn Jr. Or it could have been Sam Goldwyn, Jr. Jr. I'm not sure which Sam Goldwyn but one of them.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:26

One of them. All right. Well, we'll let that we'll let it go. All right. All right. Let's pivot to Tracey Ullman Show this is like when you

Jay Kogen 28:35

settled down, Jeff, can I get up Catch your breath? I know it's been pretty exciting.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:41

Oral history of what of the wall? They could have been

Jay Kogen 28:45

going through this grocery list of my career. It doesn't sound good as you read it like oh, let's go to I don't know Tracey Ullman Show anytime. No.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:53

All right. I feel like I'm not going 100% chronological on purpose. I'm trying to know but The Tracey Ullman Show this is what kind of eventually leads you to the Simpsons right and so you were there at the beginning of the Tracy on

Jay Kogen 29:05

The Tracey Ullman Show first led me to The Tracey Ullman Show

Jeff Dwoskin 29:08

well right right after that

Jay Kogen 29:11

but I was a big deal for me to get a job as professional writer and anything was great that long getting I got on the show, I fell into this thing where I'm working with James L Brooks, one of my heroes like holy shit, how did that happen? Because writing with my my friend Wally Wally darsky, who was a my writing partner for a few years and also my buddy from high school, we were like, we get to write That's fabulous. Like we were getting sandwiches for people literally days before and now people are letting paying us much more money to sit in an office and occasionally people get sandwiches for us. It was a much better deal.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:45

So you're you're a Simpsons royalty, right? So you've been you were right there at the beginning.

Jay Kogen 29:50

Is it royalty? Royalty?

Jeff Dwoskin 29:53

I think so. I've had al gene and Mike Reese on the show. Those are that was

Jay Kogen 29:58

Matt is Matt grinning arc King

Jeff Dwoskin 30:01

Salman right. So but you were like one of the original crew that helped kind of evolve the shorts from Tracy Ullman. I

Jay Kogen 30:08

was there. I was there before Al gene and Mike Reese, shockingly, just a little bit before them

Jeff Dwoskin 30:13

they came from. It's Garry Shandling show,

Jay Kogen 30:17

which is what I show I worked on prior to that I worked with Sam Simon on its Garry Shandling show, which is why I showed him a script I wrote and he pushed that script over to The Tracey Ullman Show and it helped get me that job. So Sam Simon was the connective tissue to all of this. And then when I worked on Tracey Ullman Show Wally while it ASCII and I were the first people he had said, Well, you work on The Simpsons with us. And I said absolutely. And then James Brooks said that they can do it with you but they still have to stay on The Tracey Ullman Show for a little while. So we couldn't be the number twos but we could be part of it. And we were

Jeff Dwoskin 30:50

how involved were you with like the kind of the evolution of the characters from Tracy Ullman the bumpers to to what became the family and that season one Homer was very different, you know that the style of I

Jay Kogen 31:01

was not, I mean, the Tracy Ullman, bumpers were a fiefdom alter their themselves, Matt grading and David Silverman and another producer, kind of work those things out and help write them and animate them. And that was that thing. And then but we would show them and they'd be very popular. And my partner and I really liked them and said you want to work on the show said absolutely, this is going to be great. And because we're brand new and stupid and didn't see any risk in doing an animated cartoon when nobody else thought an animated primetime cartoon was a good idea for the last 30 years. But we did it anyway. And we thought it was written. And what evolved was, when you have to tell a story that's more than 30 seconds long, sometimes you need a little bit more depth to the character, then dad then Simpsons cartoon, the interstitials. It was it was just mom, dad, boy, girl, baby, I don't know that they even had names. But you know, they were just boy girl. And they didn't have personalities. And they didn't really have anything other than the family, familial situations to live in, and a certain amount of anxiety. So that's what the family was had anxiety are mad at each other most of the time. So that's what we're starting with. And then Sam, Simon and Matt, granny, when it became a series and engine, Brooks developed it into a much bigger world, not just a family, a family that had distinct personalities, and distinct, everybody has their own place in the family. And they had their own place in the city and a neighborhood and amongst friends and most where they live. And the city had its own place in America. And it was literally in an explosion of, well, we need a psychiatrist. And we need a bus driver went to school teacher and a principal. And we need a neighbor. And we need you know, bullies and we need policemen and mayors. And so it was we got to build an entire world. And one of the smart things we did was do all that we would you can't do on a normal TV show because he can't afford to pay all those actors, right? Can't afford to build all those sets. So nobody does it. But an animated show, we were able to do all of it. And we could pay the same actor to do many, many, many voices. And it would cost just the same. So it made sense. You know, and unfortunately, we use that same actors to do people of other races and cultures. And that wasn't they may be a mistake of ours, but they didn't know back then. But it was great fun to to write all those crazy people make everyone a bit of a joke, whether it be you know, a mayor or a doctor or a bus driver, a school teacher, any you know, any anybody in the show was their comedic flaw was readily available to see. And so you try to exploit that as much as possible. And it was so much fun. It's so freeing to write a cartoon, you could write scenes, you know, airplane crashes and football stadium shows that things that they would draw it and you do it. Whereas on The Tracey Ullman Show, we were sort of limited to eight set and four actors. And that was great, but it was also limiting.

Jeff Dwoskin 34:02

I love hearing your point of view because some of the other stories were like, don't worry, we don't even know if this will last you may not have to. You may never have to tell someone you worked on a cartoon like in the very before. Obviously, when the first episode aired, it became the biggest thing in the world. But before that kind of leading up to it. Yeah, but

Jay Kogen 34:20

all that's true to people told us not to do it that my dad was one person who said don't do it. Cartoons is a stupid idea. But we also knew that you know, I'm 23 years old if I'm on a failure cartoon, that's not the end of me. That's just one credit that one credit doesn't destroy you. So really, the danger was very low for me. I mean, pretty high for Samsung, and iMac grainy and that for me, but it seems so much more exciting and fun than it was dangerous or precarious or any of that. And it really was because it's animation is like writing an animated TV shows like writing a little movie. You really had access to all things that you wanted to tell your story. You didn't have time. I guess that's the one thing you had very limited time you had to rush through a story in 20 to 23 minutes.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:07

When you look back, are you glad that you just had this real successful slice of time there? Or do you wish you had stayed longer? Because I know I'm guessing, like no one guessed it would still be on right.

Jay Kogen 35:19

Now, we left that to five years thinking we're done. We were being offered other opportunities to do things. I'm glad I left now because I want to leave those people in that world. I liked it. But the people were offering us other opportunities to do other things. I'd never worked on a regular multicam sitcom. I've never worked on a single cam sitcom. I'd never made a film before. I'd never, you know, really, I've done the Groundlings and The Tracey Ullman Show and The Simpsons. I want to do more. I want to do all kinds of things. You know, staying at the Simpsons is committing to like doing that same thing. And we were after five years of mining our childhoods. Both Wally and I were pretty exhausted thing going. I think we've really we've mined our childhood. They did enough. They've done on a million, I don't know eight different shows about Batman on The Simpsons, and I'm sure what the new release of the Batman, they'll probably do another one. But I mean, how many times what how much do we have to say about the Batman? Yeah, we've had a lot already in the past 30 years. And there's, I guess there's more to say. But I as a writer, want to try to do other things and grow a little bit. And I'm jealous of the stability of an income that I'm jealous of. Because as a writer, you rarely get that I mean, nobody has what our gene had, which is just like an enormous, he knows what he's been doing for every year. It's literally like working at GM or just some giant corporation and he'll get a gold watch and retire eventually. But that's that's what I'm jealous. I'm not jealous of having worked there. for that long. I think I'm better off as a person to have branched out and made more, had more experiences more some other successes and some other failures. But at least they're they helped me grow as a person as a writer. If I had to do it all again. I would still go

Jeff Dwoskin 37:00

good answer. Let me ask you a question about an episode you wrote, like father like clown. So this was sort of like the first of many pretty heavy duty Jewish themes, bringing in Jackie Mason and making crusty Jewish I watched all of them. I kind of found them all. And then they go to Israel and all that kind of stuff. A lot of Jewish writers in the room, but like, Was it cool to like, just to be able to kind of bring a sense of Judaism and like, little spotlight of that on this show?

Jay Kogen 37:27

I guess. So. I mean, what was interesting was the impetus of the show was to do the jazz singer, but with a clown. Right? So that was the that was the joke. But then everybody said, Well, okay, if you're gonna do jazz singer, the thing about it is even though it's a cartoon, we're gonna do it for real. We want rabbis to consult we want to we went I literally use the Talmud as a basis for decision making for the rabbi and for crusty and like, they wanted us to go deeper, to dig deeper. And that's just good writing. And that's just a good policy. That's a really good creative way to approach things. And that's not just for Jewish shows, that's for everything we ever did. That's, you know, let's go deeper if they believe Lady Gaga is on the show, let's go deeper into her beginnings and who she is and what she's going to do. And yeah, I mean, for me, it was a pleasure to do because I'm Jewish, I was raised Jewish, I got to my the rabbi who Bar Mitzvah me and also married me and my wife was a consultant on the show, and helped us find the right Talmudic verses, I consult with three different rabbis, and Jackie Mason, who was also went to yeshiva and knew some of that stuff to represent Judaism in a smart, interesting way that had not been represented so much on television, and honestly still is not represented on television is a great thing. And I think that's one of my goals is to continue to have a Jewish family. It's not just about, I don't know, banking, or money or something like like talking about what it is to be philosophically Jewish, that I really like because, yeah, there's something in the culture about how we approach life that's interesting and very beneficial to those of us who grew up Jewish and are either culturally Jewish or religious. It's the thought that we can, that everything's a question, nothing is taken for granted. Why do we do anything that's inherent in Judaism? And it's inherent in being a comedy writer? It's the same thing or being a comedian. What is our reason for doing this? And let's look at it let's take it apart and let's make sure it's it makes sense. And maybe there are deeper meanings in all of it that we can find and make ourselves feel a little bit more connected and a little bit more bonded to each other. How great how great that's that's what you hope for

Jeff Dwoskin 39:33

my aunt has one of my favorite lines. When when Homer says Mel Brooks is Jewish, I can't do

Jay Kogen 39:40

Yeah, that is a very funny joke, and I don't believe it's my joke, but I really like it. I think it may be my partner's joke while he waterski I know that when they're not my joke because it gets a laugh.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:52

The other thing is that I found the other thing I read it last exit to Springfield considered one of the great Just consider the greatest episode of The Simpsons. However, I also write in the same article, you do not believe that to be the case.

Jay Kogen 40:08

I don't have. I mean, I'm agnostic about like, do they want to? I haven't seen, I haven't seen every episode of The Simpsons. So I don't know, what's the greatest episode of Simpsons? What's not. And I suspect that the grandson Simpsons wasn't necessarily in the first five years of production of Simpsons that they've had many, many years of great, great, great shows. So but my favorite episode was not that I liked that episode a lot. But my favorite episode is Bart, the Daredevil, which is about Homer jumping bark jumping over a canyon like Evel Knievel last night. Springfield has some really funny jokes in it, that one of the ones that I wrote that I liked the best is has a moment where Homer has to decide whether he wants a beer or his daughter should get dental care. He goes back and forth, back and forth with this idea. And the it's clearly the right answer is clearly fight for the health care, sir. But his brain is such that beer sounds pretty good. So it goes back and forth. And the way we wrote it was it's homers, inner thoughts. And he's going up. And we went for two pages for him saying dental care, beer, dental care, beer, dental care beer. And now Jean looked at and said, What did you mean to write two pages of this? Yes, that if it went on really long time, it would stop being funny and then start being funny again, and then start being really funny. And it got it wasn't quite as long as we read it, but it's a really, it's a brave joke. Let's put it that way. It's brave for

Jeff Dwoskin 41:34

everyone. I rewatch it because I wanted to check it out the Yeah, I feel like Family Guy took that trope from you.

Jay Kogen 41:41

Yeah, they took a lot from The Simpsons. And by the end there, they took a lot from everywhere. They're very funny though. That family was very funny show. So it's all good. But I think part of the day that was closest to my heart because I liked the message of it. I like the closest the Father Son journey of it. And I just think it's funnier. I just think it's funnier

Jeff Dwoskin 41:58

is a lovely, my personal. Now there's a lovely father son moment just before his skateboard starts to accidentally go down the hill.

Jay Kogen 42:06

Right? He says, If you don't do it, I will do it. I'll go across the canyon, because I won't let my son do it. He said, so you do that for me. Of course, son, I love you. He says, well, then you don't have to jump the canyon dad, because I love you too. And then as he's celebrating his emotional victory with his son, the skateboard starts moving that he's on and starts rolling towards this horrible Canyon jump. That's a great scene and the canyon. Fall is a great scene. And there's a million there's a million jokes in that whole show, not just the Katy that I just love. And so I will always like it. I like it forever.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:37

You don't just put him in the hospital. You put him in the hospital.

Jay Kogen 42:40

We do put them in. He falls down a canyon twice.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:43

The ambulance it's a tree and he falls out.

Jay Kogen 42:45

Yeah. It's a great that get a Buster Keaton style comedy been when we wrote it. We didn't know that the animators were going to do it so great. And they did it exactly right. I mean, that is so well executed.

Jeff Dwoskin 42:56

So well. It's a great episode. Great episode. Do you have any favorite guest stars? Or if you think it's more fun to talk about ones that you didn't like, feel free to answer.

Jay Kogen 43:06

I don't know. I'm pretty starstruck with all of them. I was started. We had a lot of Tracey Ullman Show, we had Steven Spielberg and Steve Martin and they had a lot of cool guest stars on The Tracey Ullman Show, but but on The Simpsons, let's see. I really like Tom Jones. Tom Jones was on the show. I believe. We had Tony Bennett, sing a song on the show. That was pretty awesome. Nice. Nice. Yeah, we had a series of baseball players that were just, you know, Major League All Stars that were coming one by one into the studio, and Danny DeVito and Penny Marshall and Albert Brooks, and, you know, they're all pretty good. Michael Jackson showed up. That was cool. I mean, you know, lots of cool people showed up and we got to work with I got to direct Dustin Hoffman on the show. That was fun. That's an

Jeff Dwoskin 43:51

uncredited spot, isn't it? Yeah.

Jay Kogen 43:53

I mean, I did. Everybody who did know I met Dustin Hoffman. Oh, yeah, that's him too. Yes. He he had some sort of Jewish name like, you know, yeah. Big knows something. I don't know exactly what he did. How he credited himself because people are afraid to be on cartoons. I don't know why, if that would damage their reputation. Now, people have no problem with it. No, now it's a badge of honor. And Dustin Hoffman's reputation went to being damaged by Dustin Hoffman years later.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:18

That's right. So after the Simpsons, you made your way to Frazier, how did you how did you get that job? Because that's, that's a completely different I imagine it's a completely different like writing style and hold and well,

Jay Kogen 44:31

that's why I went there is because I thought it would be a better resume. If I wasn't if it wasn't just on I had a choice between going on Seinfeld and Frasier. I was offered a job at both shows, post show and even though Seinfeld was a great, great funny show. Frasier I felt was a different kind of show that a guy like me probably needed to work on to sort of hone my craft as a writer to write the kind of sort of smart classy shows that that they make at home. At Frasier, so I took that job and I do not regret it. Although Larry David when I run into him, he gives me shit about it every time. But nonetheless, I'm happy I did it.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:10

I have a clip I have a clip of your me speech. It's not the whole speech. Thank God there's a really funny line but wait because I have to. I want to ask you about the end which is more classic than the initial joke.

Jay Kogen 45:24

I want to thank my mentor Sam Simon, who took a chance on the well connected rich white good. I want to thank the best comedy writer I know my father Arnie Kogan for being a well connected and rich I want to thank my mother Sue Kogan, rebacked center Encino for all your Valley and West Side real estate needs a 18501736 do

Jeff Dwoskin 45:51

all right that to me was the funniest thing ever.

Jay Kogen 45:54

Yeah, well, it was intended to be fun my my whole theory of Emmys. My father has three Emmys. I have feelings of Emmys was that Emmy awards or awards in general are kind of bullshit. Right? They're not when was the last time you went and award show go out. Man. That movie absolutely was the best movie here or that shows the absolutely the best TV show hands down. No question. You know it's crapshoot, you get lucky. You get somehow you get nominated. You get in there and you got a one out of five chance of winning. And if you win, great. And I'm not saying it doesn't mean you're not a good writer, but it doesn't mean you are a good writer. It's like it's an award show. And it's just lucky. So the what you really can get out of the whole thing is you can try to be funny, like that's it like failed stand up comedian. I'm gonna try and get a laugh. That's all I wanted to do was get up there and as nervous as it was tried to squeeze out a bunch of laughs and I did my best. And I'm very I'm glad that that those jokes work now giving up my mother's real estate number. I thought it would be funny. Everyone thought, Well, did your mom get a lot of business? And the answer is no. She did not get a

Jeff Dwoskin 47:00

lot of business. That's what I wanted. Nobody call that number I would nobody called they just assumed Oh, nobody called that

Jay Kogen 47:04

number. No, I don't think that that advertising of sort of a fat nervous man's number. That tuxedo was catching the eye of real estate buyers and sellers in that. In that moment.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:18

It was it was really funny. But you made a reference to the sandwiches that you because Gary Shandling gave you the award right? And so you say is is Brian Gary sandwiches, and then you also not in the clip I played said I guess this proves I'm objectively better than David D Kelly. You listen to the show. And then they cut to them. That was great. Wow, how did it feel like so you had that all prepared? Right? You're ready to add sure I wrote it out.

Jay Kogen 47:46

So while I honed it down, even though it's really super long, I cut it down. Sure. Yeah. Like was

Jeff Dwoskin 47:53

it like? I mean, this is a one shot, right? It's one thing when you do stand up comedy or anything, right? You do it and if you can hone it, you can do better than this is a once and done. Right. So it's done. I mean, so you had to nail it that first time and you did you went out with all the confidence that you needed to like just ignite this the one time it was gonna work and go for it. It was it was great.

Jay Kogen 48:15

I rehearsed it. I tried to do it. You know, I was nervous. I was very nervous. I think on the clip. I'm like, my hand is shaking with a piece of paper. I'm very nervous, but I was like, I'm committed to doing the bits. That was it. The one thing I did that really mess things up was one of the writers of Fraser, who's I'd mentioned everybody else named I didn't enter my friend Rob Greenberg's name. Somehow I omitted it. I'm just going down the list. And I passed right over it. So I feel I feel bad. And then later on the night, Rob Greenberg said, What did I what I do to get you mad? Like, what are you talking about? You didn't say my name. I of course, I said your name. And I looked back I did not say his name. So Rob Greenberg, I love you. And I, I say thank you for helping me with my me.

Jeff Dwoskin 48:56

There you go. This is it. This is like, like, this is like that Tosh redemption. So all right, cool. All right. The other question I have, and I'm just really curious, if you don't want to answer this, you don't have to. But what happened with the iCarly? Reboot?

Jay Kogen 49:09

Um, that's a good question. I'm trying to think of what I'm allowed to say. The network said it was creative differences. So I think that's what I'm allowed to say. That's creative differences. And I think let me just say this, I was as surprised as anyone to find out that I was no longer working at iCarly, a show that I helped create the revival of it was just got a call and said, You're not working here anymore. I went, why and they went, you're just not working here anymore. Is there a reason this is creative differences? I said with who? Who is what are the difference? Do it and that's all I know. So creative differences. I'm pretty sure I know who the creative difference is with but I don't I don't know for sure because I never spoke to that those people or that person. Write

Jeff Dwoskin 49:56

the article. I write every Miranda Cosgrove and that but you wrote The first episode style. You saw credit for that? Yeah, no.

Jay Kogen 50:02

I mean, I wrote, I read, I created a show that show the new version of the show co created with the writing partner. And yeah, we got and she stayed and I got I got let go. And just like, Well, what happened is like I didn't I didn't meet to anybody, let's put it. Like we did everything we did, we did on Zoom. So I was in, I was in no room to talk shorebreak like the code COVID covers me on that basis. Apparently, some part of my creative voice or manner, rubbed some people the wrong way. And again, in order to get paid all the money that I was owed, they said we would like you to just keep it at that. So I'm gonna keep it at that.

Jeff Dwoskin 50:41

Well, more importantly, so on a revival that you did that must have loved you because you were there the whole time, Punky Brewster. So you're like King of the revivals all of a sudden what it was?

Jay Kogen 50:52

Yeah, well, I think it's not that I'm king of the revival. It's that media giant media companies are raiding their libraries because they find it more profitable and safer than actually investing in new ideas. So I'm king of the survivors. I'm trying to work in a world where old IP is valued more than good new ideas. Right. All right. Well, Oh, okay. Got Punky Brewster was a really great experience I haven't really enjoyed I enjoyed working on iCarly to up until the day I didn't know the day weren't Yeah, but I've really I enjoy the Punky Brewster gang was terrific. And the actors were great. And they know it's hard working through COVID to make that show, Jim and Steve are mijita, who created that show are geniuses and I would work with them on I worked with them on School of Rock before that, and it was they're just great. So yeah, that was a great experience. And it's tough to be a writer in COVID time because you're alone. You're at home, except you're and then occasionally you're on Zoom a lot. But it's not really like working on a show. There's no energy you're not in the room. It's it's kind of like doing stand up by zoom. It's not the same thing.

Jeff Dwoskin 51:57

Right. Right. Right. And then the other thing just randomly that popped out because I had Eric Peterson on the show was you were involved with Kirstie sitcom Kirsty? Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. Eric Peters. Not, which was not a revival. That was that was a new show that yeah, that lasted longer, actually. But yeah, I

Jay Kogen 52:17

don't I mean, I don't know how it was TV Land,

Jeff Dwoskin 52:19

right. I think there was shifting like what they were doing. And I don't know.

Jay Kogen 52:23

But I mean, I enjoyed working there, too. Marco Panet, was the showrunner of that show. And it was very fun. I mean, I've worked on a lot of shows, many of them are, were fun experiences, a few of them were really shitty experiences. Many of them are great shows to watch. A few of them are really shitty shows to watch. Like, it's just everyone who's not a professional may not know that, it's just as hard to make a shitty show as it is to make a great show that you really put as many man hours often more man hours to create a mediocre viewing experience than then a great viewing experience. It's just there's a lot about it. That is uncontrollable casting, chemistry, timing, production, that's showrunners voice matching with the, the the voice of the the cast and the crew. So I don't know, there's a lot of different moving parts. So that's why not everything is good. And kind of like most things on broadcast television are really not good, because they're the standard of what they're trying to do is a different kind of thing than what most of us want to watch right now. So that's also I'm shocked that that hasn't changed already, that either the broadcast networks haven't just gone away, or that they've changed the style of the show they try to make and try to make something that's closer to things that are popular on streaming or pay cable or those kinds of things.

Jeff Dwoskin 53:38

Right? Well, eventually, they'll either have to or people just stop tuning in altogether.

Jay Kogen 53:43

I think they don't have to. I mean, honestly, they keep charging more and more advertising dollars every year for less and less of an audience. No one's made them change anything. It really is, like advertisers who are paying their salary or not disincentivizing being shitty, so

Jeff Dwoskin 53:59

I can't even remember the last time I watched like a show regularly on not a streaming service.

Jay Kogen 54:05

Yeah, I mean, wait, you know, my wife loves the bachelor. So we wind up watching a show like that or survivor, one of those kinds of shows obviously sports sports shows you watch but yeah, it's it's it's hard. I mean, I watch The Simpsons every now and then I'll still watch Family Guy will be on Netflix. I watch. I used to watch the Big Bang Theory. I thought that was funny. There are funny shows that fly in and fly away and ghosts on CBS. Funny thing here. That's

Jeff Dwoskin 54:32

good. Young Sheldon people talk a lot about Yeah,

Jay Kogen 54:35

I mean, I don't I have not watched that. But I think people hear people like it. So it's not all terrible. There's some really good shows. But most are very formulaic and difficult to get through. I watched I watched Kenan KU I love unsetting alive and I watched a sitcom and it's terrible. It's just unwatchable. And you go like, well, what the same people who are making really funny stuff on sending a live or watching or making this terrible Keenan show. And I think it just may be the time like you trying to tell a story in 19 minutes, and really haven't the ACT great moments. And now everything seems bullshitty and not real and not worth following. So that's, that's my take on I'm trying to, I would try to make a show. And I'm still in the business pitching but trying to make a show that feels less bullshitty. That that would be my motto. But I don't think I could sell that. That's not a selling factor for the network. They want to show that as an outbreak because they want to sell commercials. So

Jeff Dwoskin 55:30

so there you end up with Kenan. I've never seen that one. It's funny. I see the ads for it. I don't even I couldn't even tell you when it was on or I feel like it's been on for years now. But

Jay Kogen 55:38

this it's going into its second season, which is and I don't know why I'm picking on King. It's probably not the worst show on TV, but it's one of the worst shows I watched. So like it's like it's infuriating as somebody who wants to make something good. And I see all the talent Chris read and Keenan who is great that really great actors, and the storylines are just dumb. Like they really are dumb. And I feel like I don't want to be perceived as dumb so dumb that I would be that I should be the audience for this. You know, the audience should be smarter. You want to make the audience assume the audience is smarter than you. Then what do you do then? What kind of shirt do you make?

Jeff Dwoskin 56:16

So what are you working on now? What's the next Jake

Jay Kogen 56:19

guesting? On podcasts? That's all I do. I go from podcast the podcast. The greenroom is shitty at these podcasts. Me I gotta have some blue diamond

Jeff Dwoskin 56:30

nuts almonds. Those are my favorite. Yeah, almonds. Yeah.

Jay Kogen 56:34

You say like, I thought he said like almonds. Like why would you ever almonds?

Jeff Dwoskin 56:38

No, no. We buy him in the bag so you can get them in our bag. It's nice from your

Jay Kogen 56:43

from your dentist father pass like go don't have almonds and break your tooth or something. Well,

Jeff Dwoskin 56:47

I can't eat them in my back teeth. I've eaten with my front teeth because I will exactly I will snap right that feeling right off.

Jay Kogen 56:53

You think coming from a dental family you would have some fortified back teeth. What happened there?

Jeff Dwoskin 56:58

I used to they just wore down over the years. It just kind of you know,

Jay Kogen 57:01

well, somebody didn't get enough. Cavity fighting enamel, maybe some fluoride once in a while you dad could bring home from the office.

Jeff Dwoskin 57:09

Let's just say the episode that we talked about earlier last acts of the Springfield which takes place in a dentist orthodontist office when he says how often do you brush and the kid says three times a day and he says you've turned my office into a house of lies. Right? Like that's that and flossing and stuff like, right. I also like

Jay Kogen 57:29

the dental tools was the big Gouger and the pain maker. Yeah, he was like I had an art Arnold Schwarzenegger kind of weird German voice. The I'm writing I'm helping supervise a pilot written by these really two funny ladies who had a show here in Los Angeles called Dick monetised that it's becoming a that we're going out with selling a pilot on as another pilot I'm working on about a Jewish family that gets a life changing event that happens I won't say what it is because that's the money so I'm

Jeff Dwoskin 58:00

gonna be like Miss Mazur, but with actual Jewish people playing the Jews.

Jay Kogen 58:04

Yes, actually, that's part of my pitch is like actual Jews playing Jews if you want no, nobody in Jew phase, it will be all Jews. I'm helping working on another movie and as sort of comedy horror movie that I want to direct. So I've got a lot of things in the bank and I'm also trying to get my son to give me music. So I make my podcast. So I do that and on Fridays on Twitter, I host something called Philosophy Friday on Twitter. So if you follow me at Jay Kogan, Jay Kogen and on Twitter on Fridays, around 430 ish, five o'clock West Coast time, we take on a philosophical or sociological conundrum, and then we talk about it. And the thing I like about doing it is it's the most calm, quiet unfading unscrewing version of Twitter you've ever seen. It's just people discussing an issue, hopefully something that touches them or it's something that is going on in their lives they can talk about and then we just talk about it as a community. So it's a way I try to form a community. I knew their jokes, but really, it's just a kind IRS and people try to sort of turning their attention towards almost in a in a, you know, definitely I used to be a philosophy, major philosophical way, but it has a little bit of a Shabbat in it. It's sort of like a Friday you wind down and start thinking about the world thinking about moving from the workday into some other mindset. And that is why I do philosophy Friday.

Jeff Dwoskin 59:27

Sounds wonderful. Bringing some goodness to Twitter Sure. Anywhere else that people can follow you on the socials. I'm everywhere.

Jay Kogen 59:35

I am on Facebook and and Twitter and I'm not on Tik Tok, but I'm on Instagram, WhatsApp what I would say I have no idea. I mean, what other things Snapchat I must have be on Snapchat at some point. I don't know what happens there but I'll be on Snapchat if you need me to be. That's that's all that's going on with me. What about you, Jeff? I'm me performing.

Jeff Dwoskin 59:56

I'm everywhere else so I'll be at the magic bag. This J Thank you so much for hanging out with me really appreciate it.

Jay Kogen 1:00:02

My pleasure. This has been great super fun. It was not a horrible experience like everybody said it was gonna be I really appreciate that. You really stepped up thank you. Thank you so Yeah, way to go Jeff way to go nice talking to you.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:00:15

Nice talking to you too. All right awesome with Jay Kogan right. I mean, are you guys ready for Jay Kogan podcast about my podcast? I think that was pretty exciting idea. Probably one of the greatest things ever to come out of any of my interviews. So keep an eye out for that. And his other podcast. I'm not sure which one he's going to do first. Who knows? Who knows a lot of great stories about the Simpsons, Frasier, Mike Myers, so much goodness in this episode. It was so fun talking to Jay. All right. Well, with the interview over I can only mean one thing. That's right. It's time for another trending hashtag from the family of hashtags at hashtag or Roundup. I warned you this was common. Download the free hashtag roundup app at the iTunes App Store or Google Play Store. It's absolutely free. Follow us on Twitter at hashtag roundup tweet along with us. And one day one of your tweets may show up on a future episode of Classic conversations fame and fortune awaits you. This week's hashtag is brought to you by hash fake facts a weekly Game On hashtag round up at Riot inspired by Jays time at the Simpsons, it's time to rattle off some #FakeTheSimpsonsFacts brought to you by the fake facts crew every Sunday bringing the best and made up facts to Twitter all you have to know about the Simpsons to play #FakeTheSimpsonsFacts is nothing a cause it's all fake and made up How easy is that? All right, let's read some #FakeTheSimpsonsFacts. These are facts that are fake about the Simpsons. Oh Jay is their long lost uncle Barney is the new spokesperson for Ilos ek Homer could have prevented the Chernobyl disaster. Ah, he's so amazing. #FakeTheSimpsonsFacts. Homer Simpson cause a Three Mile Island accident doe Troy McCullough moved on to a lucrative career and doors in the pocket fisherman and the future Mr. Burns estate sells his holdings to Spacely sprockets. Ned Flanders was an undercover cop and witness protection when he met his wife doe. Mr. Burns hates having money. It's not a accident. Is there some awesome #FakeTheSimpsonsFacts and we're not done. though. I apologize for the horrible Simpsons impressions. My normal guy wasn't available. Here's some more fake facts. Itchy and Scratchy are brought to you by Claritin comic book guy gets all the ladies Yeah, he does. A couch is the highest paid cast member Barney character was inspired by Rudy Giuliani GO TIGERS city of Springfield as jaundice, which is why everyone is yellow, and our final #FakeTheSimpsonsFacts. The Simpsons predicted Stan Lee cameos in every Marvel film Oh, none of those are true. All great #FakeTheSimpsonsFacts all retweeted at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter. Go find them like retweet him. show him some love. Tweet your own #FakeTheSimpsonsFacts tag us at Jeff Dwoskin show I'll show you some Twitter love. All right. Well with the interview over the hash tag over calling me one thing. Episode 140 has come to an end can't believe it. Oh, Episode 140. Why do you leave us? Well, it is it is over. It's over. We got to end this one so we can get excited for the next one. That's just how the world works. Folks. I want to thank my special guest, Jay Kogan for joining me today. And of course, I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me, and I'll see you next time.

CTS Announcer 1:04:14

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai