#128 You’re Gonna Love Stu’s Show with Stu Shostak

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If you're a pop culture junkie, who loves TV, film, music, comedy and other really important stuff, then you've come to the right place. Get ready and settle in for classic conversation, the best pop culture interviews in the world. God's right, we circled the globe, so you don't have to. If you're ready to be the king of the water cooler, then you're ready for classic conversations with your host, Jeff Dwoskin.

Jeff Dwoskin 0:29

All right, Jerry way to kick off this episode of Classic Conversations.

Jeff Dwoskin 0:35

Welcome, everybody to Episode 128. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you back for the same old podcast with a brand new name. That's right in our classic conversations, the best conversations in pop culture, music, comedy, TV and film all right here bundled up for you. Same great podcast, the only thing that's changed is the music, the intro. And the name. Really that's it everything else. And the name I think now reflects better the actual podcast right? What do I do week after week, classic conversations, even with crossing the streams. Those are just some great conversations about TV shows and movies. You should be binging and right here. When we do the interviews, what amazing conversations we have ne classic conversations. That's right. Now when you tell your friends they'll say oh, a fun interview show and you'll be like the funnest. Go check out Classic Conversations with Jeff Dwoskin. You'll love it your ears. Well, thank you. Oh, that should be my tagline. I'm sure it's someone did it before. Anyway, thank you all. I'm so excited to be here with the new name Classic Conversations. I hope you like the new art. I hope you like everything. Just the outsides have changed. The middle is all the same.

Jeff Dwoskin 1:57

For example, we have an amazing guest for you today. Oh, we've always done that. That's right. We have Stu Shostak is a TV historian and host of Stu's show that he's been doing since 2006. That's right. 2006 He's had his own internet show. He's talked to amazing people over the years. Dickl Van Dyke, Bob Barker, Jonathan Winters, Shirley Jones, Carl Reiner, Ed Asner, and so many more. It's a whose who of classic everything so you know, I love talking to Stu and these people became his community and friends and then there's this new documentary out called Stu's Show. Stu's Show is the name of the show. But the movie is called Stu's Show by filmmaker CJ Wallace is the movies available everywhere on your Amazon's your Apple TV, YouTube, Vudu wherever you can download digital movies you can check out Stu's show it's a story about his life, which is fascinating how he got started in the TV business how we developed a friendship with Lucille Ball. We talk a lot about Lucy, I Love Lucy he loves Lucy, we talk Lucy and then his love for Lucy led him to meet his future wife, Jeanine, and then the movie itself actually kind of takes you through a health crisis that Janine had and how this classic television community he developed came and became his support system. And when you see this movie, you're like, Oh, if I ever got sick, I want Stu in my corner fighting for me. It's a really inspirational movie as well. And so I highly recommend it. And I know you're gonna love my conversation with Stu and that's coming up in just a few minutes.

Jeff Dwoskin 3:39

I hope you enjoyed last week's interview with Mark Anthony Austin pre visualization expert. It was fun to kind of go behind the scenes and learn a little bit more about how movies are made. But specifically some really cool stories about Star Wars special edition, and how Mark Anthony Austin got to suit up and become Boba Fett and fulfill a childhood dream. Who wouldn't love to be in the Boba Fett Mandalorian armor? I know I would be awesome. Check that out.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:08

I also want to thank everyone in advance for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors, you're supporting us here at Classic Conversations. And that's how we keep the lights on. Today's interview sponsor is award winning filmmaker CJ Wallace his latest documentary Stu's Show which chronicles the relationship between legendary actress Lucille Ball and TV historian Stu Shostak. The film indirectly tells the story of TV legend Lucille Ball The movie also tells the story of Stu meeting his wife and the health battle they fought together checkout Stu's Show on iTunes, Amazon YouTube. It's a mixed up story about life loss, love and Lucy I know you're going to enjoy it and I know you're going to enjoy my conversation with Stu Shostak and that's coming up right now.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:02

All right, everyone, I'm excited to introduce you to my next guest, TV historian archive as host of Stu's Show Star of the new movie Stu's Show. Ladies and gentlemen, Stu Shostak. Welcome to the show, Stu.

Stu Shostak 5:16

Well, thank you this You're the first person to refer to me as a star. I don't know how to take that.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:23

Oh, you got a movie? So you're a star, the movie star?

Stu Shostak 5:29

Is that the way it works?

Jeff Dwoskin 5:30

I think so. I'm gonna you know, no one calls me star but I don't have a movie. Well,

Stu Shostak 5:35

I'll call you star at how, depending on how this interview goes, Jeff, you'll be a star in my eyes.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:40

It's so sweet. So sweet. Still, I love your background. I this is really cool. So everyone knows movie coming out called Stu show, and it talks about Sue's life. And Stu does a really cool bi weekly show since 2006. And I really want to get into that he talks about all the famous TV people from adver. And I love that and then the movie also covers. It's an amazing story about still meeting his wife Janine and some health battles that they go through. It's a great story, what we've all kind of build up to that kind of one of the capitals of all this also is Stu love of Lucille Ball and his relationship with Lucy and working with Lucy. I Love Lucy as well. I'm excited to hear about that. But Stu, what is your origin story? Like, what where did this I know at some point that we're kind of launched it all was kind of being a warm up guy for TV shows. But what did you do before that they kind of prepped you to be somebody who can get in front of a studio audience and get them ready.

Stu Shostak 6:41

Well, it all started at a 50 watt radio station in Fresno County. No, that's Ted night. Sorry. No, what I had been fascinated with television from the time that I was a kid both watching people in front of the cameras. But I was also fascinated with the way television worked. And I kind of knew at an early age, and I'm talking eight, 910 years old that I was destined to work somehow, some way in television, and my parents did the best they could to discourage me. My father is a very successful customs attorney in Los Angeles. And he fully expected me to follow in his footsteps. And he did something that I regretted at the time, but it taught me the value of money. When I turned 16. I wanted a car like every kid did, he insisted that I earn whatever I could working for him over one summer, which I did not want to do, I would rather have taken a bus or a taxi and gone to CBS or Metromedia and watch some television show being taped. But he said if you want to car you've got to prove that you you will want this car and you've got to go to work for me for it. And it was the worst summer I ever had. Because I was confined to the filing room at his office, I made money and I made enough to buy a car. But it also convinced me even more that I didn't want to be a lawyer, at least not that type of of law. And so once I got the car, I was determined to get noticed that television shows it was really easy in the early 70s to get into Truth or Consequences, which was people don't remember Bob Barker had a show before the price is right. And he was more well known to people my age for doing Truth or Consequences. Then he was for prices, right? At least in those days, there was a little bit of an overlap period there. And so I started going to Truth or Consequences every week, I would go to school for hours, and then I drive to Hollywood. And after about three months, they did start noticing me there a job opened up that summer with the guy who was giving away the tickets to Phil the studio audience. It's a lot harder job than most people think people think they come to Hollywood and it's rough to get tickets and you can't get into the shows. But that really isn't the case. In those days. There were a few shows that were tough on the family was very hard to get tickets for Mary Tyler Moore do your television history. You can look up early 70s and you'll see but game shows and talk shows other than Johnny Carson were pretty easy to get into. So the guy that was booking the studio audiences realized that I wanted a career in show business he needed somebody to help him out because he had a plethora of shows that some are mostly game shows like Joker's wild and Family Feud, I think was just coming on the air then concentration with Jack NARS. Anyway, he hired me as his assistant and I went to various places in Hollywood like Universal Studios and the footprints in front of the Chinese Theater and basically just yelled my throat dry trying to get people to take the tickets and go to the shows but that was my end. Did that answer your question? I was 17 years old. I got into the business as a ticket Hawker for television shows. And I did that for several years before I got my break doing audience warm ups. Yeah, again, it's timing. It's who you know, and it it is a little bit of talent. That's what's involved. At least it was back then in the 70s.

Jeff Dwoskin 9:56

With the audience warm up. Do you just you obviously have a natural gift for gay But was there anything like did you do stand up comedy? Did you do anything?

Stu Shostak 10:03

No, that's the fallacy of I would get laughs at the shows doing audience warm ups. And people would come up to me afterwards, as they're finding out and say, you know, you're really funny, you should go to the Comedy Store. And my standard answer was, what am I going to do there? Tell them about the applause signs. There's a big difference between doing audience warm ups and stand up comedy most stand up most stand up comics that kind of bleed the line and get into doing audience warm ups find that they don't get the laughs They get doing stand up. It's a totally different animal. When you're doing audience warm ups, you're more like a host, you're more like a game show host. And your job as an audience warm up guy is not to sit there and talk about routines about going to the dentist or dealing with a bad relationship or something. They're there to see the show. They're there to see the stars of the show in person. So you are the link from them to those stars. So your job is to be entertaining to answer their questions to get them on their feet during the long breaks to play games with them so that they don't get bored, and most importantly, to keep their energy level up. Because if there's retakes, the producers expect the audience to laugh and all the same places. And I used to have a lot of fun with that. But so you're more of a host than you are you're not doing more maps, you're not talking at people as much as you want them to interact with you. Do you see the difference? Oh, yeah,

Jeff Dwoskin 11:21

as a stand up comic, myself, I what I kind of parallel that to is when you're doing more of the crowd work. But the crowd work that I do comes off the confidence of having been and doing stand up comedy. So I know how to work a crowd, right? So that's how I kind of exercise you

Stu Shostak 11:41

probably do, okay, as a warm up guy. But there I've seen, I've seen when associate producers see a comic at at one of the clubs. And so you'd be great come in and do the show, and they just do their act. And then they're handed a piece of paper to introduce the actors. And during the breaks, they don't interact with the audience. They just keep doing the shtick that they do at the clubs, and that doesn't always work at television tapings. They, the people there want to feel like they're a part of it. And so I kind of talked to them the way I'm talking to you right now. It's I pretend that I'm just talking to one person, even though there's, there's 300 people there and I let them make fun of me, I let them pick on me. You know, I don't have the greatest voice in the world, as you can hear. And you know, is that your real voice? Well, my standard line in those days was I liked riding horses when I was a kid, you know, stuff like that, so that they see that I can take a joke. And I encouraged them to pick on me because it helps them have a good time. I'm still in control, usually. And it worked. And the producers were happy because they got the laughs They needed during the shows. And I kept them in their seats for three, four hours. Sometimes some of these when I started if we went longer than 90 minutes for a half hour taping of the sitcom that was rare. Toward the end of my career when my hair started to get gray and I started to get older and less hireable. In this competitive business. It would not be unusual for me to go out at like quarter to seven and do my standard 15 minute warm up, bring out the cast and very rarely did I ever say good night before midnight, it was ridiculous. The show started to get micromanaged. We were doing four or five, six takes of the same scene because of the audience didn't laugh the way they wanted him to. It's like we better rewrite this. So we get a laugh on this joke. So I before the producers came out, I used to tell the audience if you want to get out of here at a decent hour, just laugh okay, even if you don't understand the joke, laugh, figure it out on the way home and they loved it. They love that. And they laughed and we got done early. And the producers were always amazed that I was able to do if you just be honest with the people and tell them what they're in for. And that's my big thing is honesty. I never lied. I never if we had a delay for whatever the reason was, unless it was something we didn't want to get out to the press I said we had a light blow out in the back of the set, it's going to take 15 or 20 minutes whether you want to do Do you want to do this, you want to do this, let's have some fun while we're waiting. And that's why I was successful as long as I was until the hair started to turn color.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:04

So there's a real science then to being in front of this live audience when they're taping these shows. So they will rewrite and adjust things on the fly because to them the live audience is indicative of the home audience

Stu Shostak 14:17

right? Except when we did life with Lucy people were so in awe of seeing Lucille Ball and Gail Gordon in person. It didn't matter. She could blow gas and she get a standing ovation and they were a bad gauge for the audience that watched at home because the problem we had there was she was playing to the 300 people in the bleachers. And so those shows if you look at them today, they're not as bad as everybody said they were but she's playing everything so broadly and everybody's speaking up and talking loud because she got it in her mind that it was 1951 Again, and they didn't have this modern terrific equipment to shoot a show with she was great but she was old school and you did what yet what she asked She didn't do because it was her show and unfortunately the sophistication level of what we turned out was not in tune with 1980s humor. That's basically what the problem was in there but people were just so excited to see her in person. It was not a good gauge, you know, and Gary Morton who did the warm up there didn't want to tell the audience to chill a little bit because Lucy was his wife and he felt she deserved everything she got what she did, but it just didn't translate well on the air.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:27

It's interesting because life with Lucy this came out in 1986 I have a vague memory of life at those days because there was only so many episodes that even ever aired and it's really not in syndication because it didn't have like the huge amounts I TV Land probably plays as part of maybe a marathon or something but it doesn't play like the old Lucy shows. I did a little digging on the show because I was interested I know you worked on it. And the impetus of the show was it it was coming on the on the heels of Bill Cosby had just come back strong with the Cosby Show and then the Golden Girls just blew up and you know re energized be Arthur Betty White all their careers as well. So they turned to Lucille Ball. It seemed like a complete obvious thing. The whole atmosphere was right for it. And then like you said, it just it didn't click they I read that they wrote 14 episodes film 13 and only eight ever aired. Correct. Very, very

Stu Shostak 16:26

good, Jeff. Very good.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:29

I knew you'd be I wanted to.

Stu Shostak 16:30

I wanted to come dressed for a young punk. You're pretty good.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:34

I wanted to come to the table. Interestingly enough, her daughter in the show and Dusenberry who was in Jaws too and one of the people I had on the show a couple times who when I saw that you were Lucy fan my belly Van Zandt, he's a huge Luci fan. Also huge

Stu Shostak 16:53

belly is a close close friend to this day. Great guy, right

Jeff Dwoskin 16:56

great guy. And so he's been on my show three times. We did one a general interview with his book and then we did a jaws to deep dive and then we did a taps Deep Dive. But he was obsessed with Lucille Ball loves Lucille Ball. And and finally was his key to meeting her on the set of life with Lucy. So it was like, It's fun when you can connect the threads. Yeah,

Stu Shostak 17:22

yeah. And he's a sweetheart and he's been on my show. And Billy has been on my show twice, twice or three times. I think I'm tied with you, Jeff there. He's great. He's he's a good writer. He's funny. He's a good actor. You know, I wish I was that versatile. But you know, we take what we're given.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:38

It just happened to be coincidental. One of the episodes I was listening to of yours was your 500th episode and and did a little voiceover and said, Well, I'd rather be on the Stu's Show or be eaten by a shark. Well, nevermind, I'm not going to answer that.

Stu Shostak 17:52

I wrote that for that was my first television broadcast. I had I got all the all the Lucy sons together to celebrate my 500 shows. So we had little Ricky Keith Tibideaux. We Skyped him in from Louisiana. And Larry Anderson, who played Lucy's son in law on life with Lucy and my buddy, Jimmy Garrett, who we just lost last September, who was Jerry Carmichael on the Lucy show, that was a hard one for me to deal with, because it was sudden, but I'm just so happy that I've got these these people I can't you know, in 16 years of doing my show, if you run through the archives, and look at all the people that have we've lost since then. And I'm very, very privileged to you know, because of my passion for classic TV, I do probably like you very in depth interviews and the stuff that when they when they're on, you know, mainstream talk shows they don't get into. And I'm really, really lucky that I've got them all, in their own words telling their stories. Carl Reiner did my show twice. And oh, Carl was reduced in the last 20 years when he was on The Tonight Show, or Conan O'Brien. He was the last guest because of the demographics. And he had six or seven minutes. And you can't you can't appreciate the talent and the humor and the creativity of somebody like Carl Reiner in six minutes. But attention spans for the millennials that are watching the shows these days is so so so small, they just don't have an appreciation for that Carl loved doing my show, because he got two hours. And we got into real technical stuff on how the Dick Van Dyke Show was edited and why they had to take certain jokes out and how they tried to maybe put them back in and fit them into other shows and how long it took to edit and things like this that are fascinating to people like you and me, but mainstream television has no use for that. And he was so pleased that I wanted to know how those shows were put together and it makes for fascinating listening anytime I wanted Carl, what do you need? When do you want the people really appreciate the fact that they're not going to be forgotten and that they're given an outlet to really just Talk about whatever they want. And I assume you allow that to with your guests.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:04

Yeah, it's funny because that's one of the reasons when I was watching the movie and I was introduced to you was like, oh, kindred spirit. This is, Stu is exactly who I want to be. And like, well, I need to talk to someone for an hour, I want to feel like I get to know them something that I really want to spend time with. And when you really kind of spend time with them, they'll give you that information. They'll share that extra story with you. And to me, that's kind of the special moment

Stu Shostak 20:31

exactly. As I told you before we started i This is a massive publicity campaign for this film. And I really want to help CJ Wallace get the word out because he works so hard on this film is over two years in the making, and the pandemic shut him down for a while and the fact that he wanted to invest his time and his energy and his talent into my life story and what happened to my life before and after Janine came into it. People do need to see this film because he worked so hard on it. He and his producer Mallory Kennedy, they're wonderful people he's so talented, and I'm doing what I can to spread the word people need to see this film.

Jeff Dwoskin 21:08

It's a great story I let's I want to get to the beautiful part about you and your wife but let's let's finish up with some more though Lucy stuff because I think there's some because that's really kind of that builds up to how you met. And so it was it was interesting how you kind of connected Can you talk about how you connected with Lucy and actually became started that relationship with her and became part of the show rife with Lucy show?

Stu Shostak 21:33

Sure life and Lucy came about six years after I'd met her. You know, a fate can be a wonderful thing. And it can be a terrible thing. And in my case, it was a wonderful thing. I was in my last year of college at Cal State Northridge I had started off it started out at UCLA and I could not get into the television department there because I wanted to I originally I didn't want to be in front of the cameras or even do audience warmups. At first I just wanted to write and direct and learn what I could about the technical end of the industry. And I was at UCLA did all my undergraduate work there hated every minute of it, couldn't stand it at the crowds, the parking, but I figured if I could get into the television department there, I would, I could at least you know, I knew I could get all A's in there because I was so passionate and so interested in it. And after going to television shows from the time I was 15 until I started college, I already knew how a lot of that stuff worked. I was able to observe you know, from the bleachers, at least how the cameras work or the booms and all that stuff. Anyway, I couldn't get into the TV department, my grades were not good enough from the general ed courses because I had no interest in them. I got B's I got an A here and there but I got mostly C's and that was unlike me because all through junior high in high school I got A's and B's in their Kremen this stuff down here that you're not interested in, and you're really at 18 You're gung ho about doing a career. It's really horrible. I don't know if that's changed at all in 50 years, but man back then I couldn't wait anyway, my grades weren't good enough. And they were also on a kick where what did they call it? Affirmative action. They were under a lot of pressure to bring in as many people of color as they could. And so I said to them, Well, I'm Jewish does that No, get out of here, you know, so what happened was, and again, this is fate. I told my parents I said, because I was still living at home. I said, I can't I can't get in the TV department near there's no other major that I am interested in here and I can't stand the drive and I can't stand the large classes and I just feel like I'm a number and not a person. Would you be upset if I transferred to Cal State Northridge because they have a television department there. I can get into it right away. It's old 50s equipment, but it will still give me what I want to do. And they were resigned to the fact that I wasn't going to be an attorney and work in my dad's law firm and keep the practice going. So they said okay, reluctantly. And two years after I started attending classes there and into the classes and I took directing a documentary, I took writing for television, I took FCC regulations, and I loved every minute of it. The teachers there were all people that worked in the business and had retired. They weren't people that got a master's degree in teaching, and we're just there to teach. These are people that were in the golden days of television, Ralph Levy, the director of the burns and Allen show and Jack Benny was one of my teachers. I was in heaven. So I'm in my last semester at Cal State Northridge and I had taken a class when I first got there called RTV F to 10 aesthetics of television, which I breezed through. It was the history of television with the cathode tubes and RCA and the heads of the networks and I and I knew all that stuff, just from the research. I was there. So what happened was they signed Lucille Ball to teach a class there on Monday nights, and they called it TV esthetics, our TV F 210. And I had already taken it, but believe it or not, this was being held in the largest auditorium at Cal State Northridge. It held 275 people they were so afraid that there wouldn't be enough TV majors taking this class that they opened it up to now On majors so what happened was it was first come first served, my counselor at the time told me to take the class, they would name it something else for me and give me the three units because I had already taken it, but they would count it toward a different elective that I still needed to take to graduate. And as I said in the documentary, I was working as a ticket Hawker in those days. And one of the shows I was giving away tickets to for was one day at a time and I got to know Mackenzie and Valerie very well McKenzie is still a friend to me today. And I got to know Pat Harrington real well and Bonnie Franklin and I got to know the director really well, who was a guy named herb Kenworth. And he was kind of a fuss fuss budget a cranky kind of guy. But he was nice to me because he saw potential in this young person who was interested in behind the scenes. So he let me sit in the booth while they were blocking the show and directing. And that's when I started to get first hand knowledge of how these shows operated. So I'm casually mentioned to him because I knew he had directed a few episodes of here's Lucy, and I knew that she had done a couple of stage plays out in the LA area in the late 40s. And he when he was getting started, most of these TV director veterans started directing plays on stage because it helped them stage their cameras once tell the live days of television came along. So I know that he had known Lucy for a long time. And I mentioned I'm under a lot of pressure. They want me to take this this class at Cal State Northridge but I've already taken the class. I've already gotten the units for it. And but it's being taught by Lucille Ball, who I've been a fan of since I was six years old. He said don't take the class. And I said, Really, why not? And he said, well, because I work with her. And she's not the Lucy Ricardo, you think she is she's very difficult to be around. she's bossy and pushy. She's a bee, I won't use the word here, but he used the word and you know, your your bubble will be burst. If you're a big fan of hers, you're going to see a side of her that you will not like so my advice to you is not to take the class. And then he said and I said well, I heard that she pretty much takes charge on her set. And he said yes. Except when I directed her, I wouldn't accept any of that. She said, Oh, he said there were many times where she would say no, I want to stand here. And I'd say no, Lucy, you stand there. And she get upset with me and run into her dressing room and come back five minutes later and say okay, we'll do it your way. Well, after meeting Lucy, I knew that was not correct. I knew that he was trying to exert his authority with me. So I went back to my counselor, and I said, you know, I'm working in the business now. And I talked to this prominent director who is letting me observe him directing, and he's telling me these horrible things about her. And I really don't want my bubble bursts, because I don't want to see another side of a person that I have undue respect for talent and for what she accomplished in the business. And he said to me, and I'll never forget this, and I'm not sure he said this to me, because he wanted me to be in the class. So it was one more seat filled. But what he said made sense. He says, You know, I've been in this business a long time, he was a former director at KBC, CHANNEL SEVEN in Los Angeles. And he said, you hear stuff like this all the time and show business. So in so as a bastard, so and so and so is mean, so and so will kick you in the butt if you don't do your job, right, blah, blah, blah. He said, I've always said, Let me judge for myself, let me meet this person. Let me work with this person. And let me form my own opinion. And he said, If you take nothing else away from this meeting, and from your time here at Cal State Northridge, just remember that as your career goes up and down, and it will go up and down in show business, if that's the path you choose. And I took the class based on that. And that was the best Jeff. That was the best advice anybody gave me. Because taking that class changed my life. There were 200 people in that class. A good 40 to 50% of them were non majors. And we're just sitting there in awe of her and not participating made it easier for me to participate. I knew so much about her career at that point already, from just the research I had done. It was all q&a. It was three hours of q&a. So you had to have a battery, a barrage of questions ready for her and she would look she had a seating chart in front of her so she could learn everybody's name. And God loved her at 68 or however old she was at the time. She learned everybody's name in that class, even the ones that didn't participate. But she got to know me right away, because I asked questions that unless anybody else in that class did the research I did. And a couple of times I blew her away. How did you know that? You know, and I asserted myself during the breaks, I'd go up there and chat with her while she'd be sipping coffee and smoking a cigarette. And I just talked to her and after a few weeks, she asked me about what my family background was and if I had brothers and sisters and all this, so by the end of the class 15 weeks later, I got enough nerve to say, you know, look, if you have an opening because she had just signed a deal she after 20 Some years she just left CBS and Fred Silverman, who had just taken over NBC had signed her to create new shows for NBC. So the timing there was perfect, and they didn't have anything for me right away there. But I said if you have any thing you know, let me know because I'm, you know, obviously I want to get in this business and I had given her I was doing a documentary on I Love Lucy for my documentary class and I got up enough nerve to give her a rough cut of the of the tape. As you saw on the documentary, she and Gary Morton her husband, they liked it. And he called me the next day and I talked to him with the office and you know, I pulled the right strings, I press the right buttons. And when she went on a promotional tour to promote her first special for NBC, I went to all the shows that she was at just to let her know that I was there. And then a couple of them like Merv Griffin, she saw me in the audience and on the show, she mentioned a MERV now that's one of my former students there and he's he's gonna go places when the timing was right, a couple of weeks kept in touch when the timing was right, a couple of years later, and her her longtime publicist and keeper of her film vol passed away, it was a no brainer. Carrie said let's put he called me Stewie. Let's put Stewie in charge of this. And that started a 10 year relationship with them that ended actually I still did some work after Lucy died in 1989. But by 1990 91, it was over Gary had moved to Palm Springs and Lucie arnaz had taken over everything, I had to show her everything that was there. And she just made the decision that she didn't want any of her mother's former people around her. She wanted to learn how to do this stuff herself. And I got to understand that the long answer to your short question, Jeff,

Jeff Dwoskin 31:19

no, that was, that was great. I do you think people had issue with her? Because even still, they just couldn't deal with a strong, powerful woman with such strong business sense.

Stu Shostak 31:30

If you read some of the books that have been written about her. There's one book and don't don't ask me which one because there have been so many they interviewed Claude Akins, who did one of her shows in the 60s. And he was not complimentary toward her. He said she grabbed me by the arm and twisted me and said do it to that camera. And I could see her doing that. And an answer to your question. That's the way that she felt she had to be when deci was running stuff at the studio and was her co star she deferred to him. Now, that's not to say that she didn't know her stuff on the set. And if she wanted something her way, they would accommodate her. And from what I've heard talking to the Desi Lu executives that were there during when DESE left and then when they sold the studio to Paramount, they basically said, you know, she didn't have to get she felt she had to get tough after DESE left, because the way that she worked was unless she portrayed herself a certain way on that set. She didn't think anybody would take her seriously. As Jimmy Garrett says in the documentary, she was a woman in power when it was only men in power. And she was constantly concerned that unless she made it clear that this is the way it has to be. She didn't think anybody would take her seriously. Here's this woman thinking she knows the business, which she did. Now, we didn't have that problem on life with Lucy because everybody that worked there, she tried to get as many people back working for her than she had in the old days and they were all used to it. You see once you realize how she is and she has this unbelievable ability to know where cameras should be placed where light should go where the boom mics should go. Milton Berle had that Bob Hope had that Jack Benny George Burns, they all had that but the difference there, they were all men, okay. She was the first woman to really break that barrier and she never got the credit today she'd fit right in with Amy Poehler and all of these people that the strong women that are that are running the shops, she'd fit right in, but she paved the way for all of them. And back then it was just not something that was done. You know, there there were a lot of female sitcom writers but you never hear about them. You only hear about Madeline Davis, because she because of the reruns of I Love Lucy but what Selma diamond was a writer Cheryl Gordon was a writer, Joanna Lee, all of these people were very successful. All these females were very successful writers, but you never hear about it because it was a men's club back then. So once you're comfortable with the way she works, should not push he not bossy. Is she in charge? Yes, but should do what she says because it's her show now that worked against her in the 80s because she was still doing 1960s and 1950s. You know, staging and playing to the audience type of thing, which didn't fly in the 80s. And the one regret that I had is had we done a show more like Golden Girls where we weren't jamming down everybody's throat that yeah, she's 75. But she can still take a pie in the face or get squirted with water. And we did more of an insult humor type of thing I think we might have might have had a longer run they put us in a lousy time period. And they expected us to turn around ABC for them and the audience wasn't even there for the first week. We did okay the first week but it was downhill after that because it was the same old same old which indifference to the writers. They thought that's what everybody wanted because the I Love Lucy reruns were so popular in the 80s They were everywhere. Some markets had them on three, four times a day. They modeled that Lucy Barker character kind of after Lucy Riccardo there was kind of the Lucy Carter pushing us in that character too. But people didn't care in person. They just wanted to see her see her in person when we filmed the shows, but the shows just didn't work well on the air because you had the sophistication of the Golden Girls you had cheers on at that time. You had family ties. Yeah, you had your less sophisticated shows like I worked on silver spoons, you know, that's not exactly a Fellini film had different strokes. But to bring Lucy back, they expected the caliber of the previous shows that I mentioned, and that we didn't have the writers thought they were giving everybody what they wanted. The problem was, it wasn't Lucy Ricardo, and she wasn't 35 or 40 years old. And that's Jeff, we could psychoanalyze this for hours. These are my takes on it. And that's that's why the show didn't work.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:44

Right? You can't say it's because she was older because the Golden Girls was huge. I know. She was hesitant. I read that she was hesitant to even come back. And then you know, money maybe maybe getting the same exact writers that you had getting Bob Farrell Jr. and Matt on back maybe. Maybe they said it

Stu Shostak 36:01

well. Again, I don't want to get into into the details there. They were lovely, lovely, lovely people Madeline and Byron remain friends with both of them until the days both of them passed. They were so quiet and so shy. It is so hard to imagine the stuff they wrote with Jess Oppenheimer in the 50s this broad comm amazingly funny slapstick and Madeline had a voice like this. That's why I was so upset with that Aaron Sorkin film they he made Madeline to the some kind of monster which if Madeline was alive today, she would have said what did I ever do to this guy? This was not this was not me.

Jeff Dwoskin 36:36

That was gonna be one of my questions. I was gonna ask you what you thought of being the recording. You think

Stu Shostak 36:41

I'm talking a lot. Now? I don't know. If you want me to go into it. I was appalled. absolutely appalled. And maybe it's because I was too close to all of it. But it was it was 100 minutes of lies and falsifications and he made Lucy out as this cold heartless woman who only cared about herself. Now you saw the documentary. Right? I saw that. And I saw Amy. I'm talking about the CJs the tsusho documentary Have you seen the flashes in that and you saw enough of me interacting in that that Lucy to you look like the Lucy that Nicole Kidman played?

Jeff Dwoskin 37:15

No, no, no, no, no. But Aaron Sorkin sort of always.

Stu Shostak 37:18

I call being the Ricardos. The West Wing it Desi Lou that because that's all he did. He took the characters from the west wing and adapted them and I don't fault the actors. I want to make that clear. Right now. They were doing what they were told to do. But my big fear with that. And luckily, there were enough people that felt like me was that people that were not familiar with Lucille Ball as a person in her career are going to come away from that thing, thinking that's how it was, I mean, right down to the end of the film. That's not how that whole Red Scare thing went down at all. He didn't they didn't have the capability to play a telephone call to the audience. In those days. He had spoken to J. Edgar Hoover in his office that morning before they film the show. And J Edgar assured him that the next day she would be cleared and the one line that Jessie did, which is in the Amy Poehler documentary that Sorkin didn't think was dramatic enough to end the thing was the only thing read about my wife is her hair. And even that's not legitimate, which got a huge laugh from the audience. But Sorkin said I didn't write that. So I'm not going to put that in. Jeff, don't get me started on that, please. We'll be here all night.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:25

Okay. Okay. Let's, let's very well rewind, rewind. Let me ask you another question about the class that you took with Lucy 15 weeks once a week. Yes. Okay. So three hours of q&a. So if I'm doing math, my header off has 45 hours of just Q Well,

Stu Shostak 38:39

we've learned let me let me give or take every modify that we would start the evening with the Lucy show, or an I Love Lucy or something that she did. So that would spark questions for the rest of that hour. And then and she brought guests and she brought Gary in a couple of times, Gary lecture the audience on how the show was put together and how it was edited, and all that sort of thing. But yeah, for the most part, I mean, we had breaks there was a break every hour for 10 minutes, sure,

Jeff Dwoskin 39:02

but 2025 hour, whatever it is, I mean just massive amounts of time getting firsthand. Man that was it

Stu Shostak 39:09

for me. For me. I mean, you know, I wasn't going to take the class and Mr. BURROWS might my counselor said none and you judge for yourself. Take the class and you know, to this day, he's responsible for that Lucy connection because I wouldn't have taken the class based on what her began with told me one day at a time so

Jeff Dwoskin 39:26

right it seems like there's two C's right there's a loser that you just when you watch the show, the hilarious redhead that just is encapsulated on film. And then there's Lucille Ball, the business woman right and maybe some people just can't deal with it but it was the business woman her and Desi Desi Lu productions. I mean, that's why we have the untouchable Star Trek right Mission Impossible. I mean, these are franchises that today are still Yeah, bonkers huge. Wow. The biggest

Stu Shostak 39:57

break for Paramount was buying DESE Lu let me make one thing clear. She was the vice president of Desi Lu when Desi was run in the studio. And she was mainly there concerned with her acting in the show and making sure that the show was in great shape, you know and concentrate on herself when Desi sold his interest in Desi Lu in 1962. That's when she became a figurehead. And to hear her tell that she just did what the executives told her to do, Martin Leeds and Ed Holly and Bernie Weitzman, and all of the people that were on the Desi Lu board, they would run the business and but she had to answer to the stockholders. She had to make the speeches, she had to say what the company was doing, and she hated it. She hated every part of that she just wanted to act and to do her show. But she kind of got thrust into that thing and had to do that, because she was the president of the company. So when Paramount came along in 1966, and said, Are you interested in selling Desi Liu, she couldn't wait to get that deal consummated. And she ended up renting space from them to continue you know, she had to get a new show because the Lucy show was part of that sale, the format and the characters and everything were then on by Paramount and that's why here's Lucy began when she brought in her kids and kept Gail but they played basically she and Gail played the same relationship. It's just that he was her brother in law as opposed to her boss, it was still Mr. Mooney and her with a with a different name. And then universal made them an offer. And she found out that once she was a tenant at her own lot, she didn't get she didn't get the the immediacy when she needed something that she got when she was the head of the studio. She was a merely a tenant, and she didn't get treated the same way she did so that when Bernie Weitzman moved over to to universal to run the operation there, he pretty much promised her the same deal she had during the Desi Lu days. And that's why they left paramount and went to Universal she was back in getting everything she wanted again at that point.

Jeff Dwoskin 41:45

So in the movie it your love for Lucy kind of comes to a point where this is how you meet Janine, who, your future wife to be also a huge Lucy fan. And this is where the kind of the documentary takes on a different story. Where is your relationship, and all these amazing people, all these famous famous people that you've known. And then Janine gets ill, and I'll let you kind of talk about that. But and then just the support system that you had with Tony Dow and Ed Asner, like just I mean, that's just scratch, that's not even scratching the surface. So

Stu Shostak 42:21

it's incredible. The only reason that these people rallied around us is because they were our friends. And they happen to be classic TV stars, and they happen to be part of my circle, because of my talk show. All those years, we I was very blessed, and that people had such a good time when they came over here to do the shows that it's like, well, you know, let's stay in touch, let's socialize. And about 90% of the people that did my show, we became friends with I mean, you know, we exchanged Christmas presents, and we go to dinner and all that stuff. It's just kind of a fringe benefit of doing a show in Hollywood, based on classic TV. So my point is, is that I think in any situation when a husband and wife or in our case, you know, we got married because of what happened, but we were boyfriend, girlfriend, and I think anytime a significant other has a major medical emergency, your friends and your family all rally around you, it just so happened that the people that rallied around us were our friends, because of Stu show. And so that's what CJ was so enthralled with is the fact that all of these classic TV stars sort of you know, bonded with us, and were there for us during this, you know, tremendous time that you know, she was recovering from the brain aneurysm. But I do think in any situation, whether it regardless of whether anybody is famous or not, I do think that your true friends will rally around you and give you the support. We were just lucky that we had all of these, you know, close friends that really liked us. And we're really concerned for her, you do really find out when something like that happens, just who your friends you know, and your close relatives are and we were blessed. I mean, you know, I'm still praising them to this day, because it was not a fun time of our lives. And I think the movie makes that clear.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:03

One of the messages I took from the movie too, was just how much you gotta fight and question the doctors and push back and really kind of own when somebody is going whether you or somebody you love is going through something, make sure you really understand what's going on, and are part of that and don't doctors are awesome. And they know a lot of stuff. Yes,

Stu Shostak 44:24

yes, there are. I have to make this clear. One of the reasons I agreed to do the film was I wanted to show the public that you can deal with the insurance companies and the medical industry. You have to become a bastard a lot to get hurt. But there are wonderful doctors, there are wonderful nurses, there are wonderful therapists out there. I want to make that clear. I don't want anybody walking away saying boy, that medical industry is really screwed. Look what this poor guy had to go through to get his wife. Well, there are wonderful doctors that but there's a lot of red tape and there's a lot of places especially since now we're finally coming out of this pandemic where there's just not an enough qualified people to take care of the input of patients. And if you think it's bad during the pandemic, imagine back in 2014, when this was happening, and it was just a normal day to day routine, you have to have a knowledge of this stuff, you have to learn how the system works. And I, I got on the job training, because I was never confronted with anything like this. during my lifetime, anything major that happened in my family, my parents, or my uncle, or my grandparents dealt with this, I got this, this all happened, boom, November I'll never forget is November 19 2013. And in that span of three or four days, I learned so much. And I continue to learn, you have to learn how to work the system, you have to know what to do, and you have to become angry and crazy at times. Because these people, although they're dedicated, it's a job to them. It's just like what you do, Jeff, it's just what I do. They're used to dealing with sick patients, they're used to dealing with death, they're used to this, this is common for them each day, what they're not used to our health advocates that really care about the people that are in there. Now, I'm sure there's a good percentage of people that are but I was not about to let this fall apart. And it was the doctors at Cedars, the ones that did the serious brain procedures on them. They're the ones that said to me, she's gonna be okay, believe it or not, there's not a lot of brain damage in there, her cognitive skills had been damaged, we won't know exactly what that is until she wakes up from the coma, which if you saw the film is almost six weeks, and the damage was much further extensive than they thought. And so in that in that respect, doctors usually don't give you hope. They usually play on the side of pessimism so that you're not disappointed these guys based on the surgery she had and the stability that she had afterwards and what they could see through the MRIs and the MRIs and the X rays and all that. There's not that much damage here. She's very lucky she's going to recover. Well, she recovered, but not totally. She's still not 100% today, but that hope was why I fought so hard if they said well, she's never gonna walk again as that one doctor did. I don't want to tip off everything in there. But thank God Ed Asner was with me when that one doom and gloom doctor came in. So I had a witness to that if the cedars doctors who were wonderful who were absolutely wonderful, especially Dr. Michael Alexander the head neurosurgeon there, he saved her life if they had not told me that I don't know whether I would have fought as hard to get her well, because if they didn't think there was hope for her, then why should i And don't even get me started on on what my plan B was for her head. But the fact that she said that they said she was going to recover from this they said fully I don't think I would have fought as hard as she did. She didn't recover fully. But she's she's mobile. And you know, it's certainly better than the alternative It was once we left cedars and we got assigned to these secondary hospitals and also to the rehab places which need to be shut down. I don't want to get on a soapbox to talk about now but these places are just horrible that the your your listeners can see the film and they can judge for themselves. I've got it in my will though, as a result of this that if I get into a state where I can't take care of myself, I'm to have full time help here I am not to go to one of these places. As you saw on the film. There were several moments in that film where I was screaming at the insurance company saying she's coming home and you're gonna give her around the clock here at home I don't trust these places and they wouldn't pay for it. And luckily there were things that happened during those periods which I allowed and she got better let's just just put it that way

Jeff Dwoskin 48:30

it was inspirational watching you buy it and I just we should all have a Stu in our lives when the going gets rough and you need someone

Stu Shostak 48:39

you know a few people that have seen the film like you you know are saying to me, you know would you be my health advocate and I said I retired from that when Janine came home that is one aspect of my life that I do not want to entertain again I am through being a health advocate so

Jeff Dwoskin 48:54

oh it takes a lot out of you I can manage that's a once and done that's a once and done I loved her relationship with asthma though. That was cute and the way Oh,

Stu Shostak 49:03

did that man adore her. I don't know what an Ed was a wonderful wonderful man. Oh, I cried when I found out that he passed last August he just adored her and he was such a giving person never said no to anything charity wise or anything. When do you want me one? When can I help you? How can I help you and we had we took them out for his birthday every year and we had such a good time and he was Indyk Van Dyck and his wife Arlene they took care of me that was one part of the film that got cut for whatever reason but the van dykes were wonderful to me. Arlene never wanted me alone while Janine was in the hospital during the major holidays so Easter Christmas Valentine's Day any excuse for a holiday please come over. Let me Let us give you a meal. You know we don't want you to be alone. It's just incredible. The support you get Tony and Lauren Dow same thing. I mean, you know, Lauren married us and Jeanne Russell and Jerry jewel, and you know, I know I'm gonna leave bluestem Livingston, all of these people were just I mean, daily calls from Michael Cole and Mike Clifford, who was only in the film via pictures. Just you know, and people were saying, Are we bugging you that we're calling you everyday? No, no, I want to give you updates. It's just incredible the support you have. And like I said, we were just lucky that it happened to be famous people. I think in a situation like this, where where it's a, you know, a private individual, I think your true friends will rally around you. So you know, regardless of whether they're in the business or not,

Jeff Dwoskin 50:30

that's cool. I had the opportunity to talk to that as in a few months before he passed away. That was quite a quite a thrill. He was so great. He was one of those. He's one of those actors, like Manny but like him specifically, it just transcends like, my kids knew that and it was for a different reason. That was the big up and elf is one of our favorite, right,

Stu Shostak 50:50

we take him to autograph shows, as you saw in the documentary, and we'd have scads of Mary Tyler Moore and Lou Grant pictures and everybody just went to Carl Fredricksen. They'll just went off and it was so great because it revitalized his career. I mean, he never stopped working, but he didn't have the popularity and the notoriety of Lou Grant for those 30 odd years and ELF helped a little bit but up just made him in Betty White's range as a superstar. And we were so happy for him because he deserved it. He was a wonderful, wonderful man, and I miss him. I miss him terribly.

Jeff Dwoskin 51:22

And then Tony Tao is your best man at the wedding.

Stu Shostak 51:26

I Wally Wally cleaver was my best man. And he's a wonderful guy. It's warm and nice. And Lauren, his wife is terrific. I did if Lauren's gonna marry us, you've got to be the best man. And he was so taken aback by that he wasn't expecting it. It was great. The wedding was people are still it's eight years almost. And people are still talking about the wedding and how great it was, which makes me feel really good because that was a payback to all of them. All of the people that were there were the people that rallied around us. And I you know, it was the hottest ticket in town. I don't want to pat myself on the back and break my arm. But it was the hottest ticket in town, we could only have a certain number of people. And there were a lot of people that were disappointed celebrities and non pros that wanted to come on. I said no, this is payback for the 150 people that surrounded us during this whole ordeal. You that's why I did an audience warm up at the wedding. I wanted people to laugh and most of them had not seen Janine since since she came home a month earlier. And so they didn't know what to expect. And the big thing was Janine, you've got to be able to walk down the aisle we have to prove that you're going to get well and you're going to be better and damage if she did she walked she had to be helped by my dad but she did it she walked down the aisle.

Jeff Dwoskin 52:35

It's a beautiful thing and then everyone listening I'll put links but it's called Stu's Show it's by CJ Wallace put it together tells the amazing story of Stu and Janine and he's definitely check it out. It's a it's a it's a great watch Stu I can't thank you enough

Stu Shostak 52:52

it was my pleasure. It's nice to meet you Jeff. Just like you didn't know me I didn't know you now I know you know I've got another podcast to listen to

Jeff Dwoskin 52:59

awesome I know we can be our we can be each other's biggest fans awesome well I hope the movie is a blockbuster and I wish you nothing but the basket and everyone check out stews podcast especially if you'd like mine he talks Oh yeah,

Stu Shostak 53:15

you won't get a word in edgewise if you do my show.

Jeff Dwoskin 53:21

man Thank you so much. Thank you it was great pleasure.

Jeff Dwoskin 53:24

All right. Oh incredible is to show stack Ah, what a great story check out the documentary Stu's Show you will thoroughly enjoy it and check out #BrandNameMoviesOrTVShows which is you know Stu's actual show that he does his internet show. You can find all that information at stusshow.com. Well with the interview over that can only mean one thing ads right it's time for another trending hashtag in the world of hashtag are round up all hashtag roundup on Twitter at hashtag roundup download the free always free doesn't cost a penny app at the iTunes or Google Play Store. tweet along with us. And one day one of your tweets may show up on a future episode of Classic Conversations, fame and fortune awaits you. Today's hashtag #BrandNameMoviesOrTVShows had to go with a TV show themed hashtag of course we did. This one's from raging blonde tags and weekly Game On hashtag Roundup. It's the ultimate mashup of brand name and a movie or a TV show. It's your choice a movie or a TV show just Jama brand name and their their ultimate brand matchup game. Alright, let's read some #BrandNameMoviesOrTVShows. Ugly Betty Crocker, Red Robin Hood dial Eminem for America. These are some great examples to kick off hashtag brand name movies or TV shows York and Mindy Orange Julius is the New Black Angus Dude, Where's My Car Hart Once Upon a Time x and Hollywood midnight in the Olive Garden of Good and Evil turning red bull. You're getting it #BrandNameMoviesOrTVShows. Third Hard Rock from the Sun. WreckIt Ralph Lauren, under and one Dell machines in Outer Limits from Craig Shoemaker. Check out Greg on episode 14 of the podcast Coke Zero Dark 30. The Fisher Price is Right. Starburst wars kick Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Dr. Hoover, Honda, I Shrunk the Kids. And our final #BrandNameMoviesOrTVShows. Tweet. Dick Van Klondyke show Oh, there we go. Those are some awesome #BrandNameMoviesOrTVShows Grabbed the hashtag roundup app, tweet along with us have some good times. All those tweets as always, are retweeted at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter. That's right. We didn't change the handle for Instagram or Twitter. We figured we'd keep one thing easy. Head on over to add Jeff Dwoskin show tweeted us let us know how you like everything. Show those tweets and love tweet your own. I'll show you some Twitter love as well.

Jeff Dwoskin 56:23

Well with the hashtag over and the interview over it can only mean one thing. Oh my goodness, Episode 128 has come to an end. I want to thank my special guest Stu Shostak of Stu's Show. Check that out. And of course I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me. And I'll see you next time.

CTS Announcer 56:50

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