#100 Ronny Cox Has Total Recall About RoboCop and Deliverance

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:16

All right. Thank you, Ned for that amazing introduction. You get the show going each and every week and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody to Episode 100 of live from Detroit the Jeff Dwoskin show. As always, I am your host Jeff Dwoskin. Glad to be back to celebrate 100 episodes with you can't thank you enough for coming back week after week. And here we are serving up episode 100 This episode contains 432 extra calories than a normal episode. But don't worry, you can go for a run after and work that right off. It's gonna be totally worth it. I promise. Our guest for episode 100 is actor singer songwriter Ronny Cox. That's right. Ronny Cox. You loved him in total recall as CO agan Beverly Hills Cop, one into Robocop Star Trek The Next Generation and of course deliverance and so much more. It's an amazing conversation with one of the greatest actors of all time, so many great stories. I can't wait for you to hear it. And that's coming up. And what was no sorry. It's coming up. And just a few minutes.

This journey of 100 episodes has been so amazing. When I started the podcast, I had no idea that it would take me this far and I'd be able to meet so many cool people. It's really exciting. One of the cool things about the Ronny Cox interview coming up is in December I talked to Billy Van Zandt, we did a whole taps retrospective for the 40th anniversary of TAPS. Ronny Cox was in taps. And so we talked about that. And I get a little bit of it from Ronny's point of view as well. So it's always cool to be able to talk to different people who are involved in the same project and get different points of view. So that what I'm sorry, there's like a noise and I can't I normally try and filter them all out anyway. So I'm really excited. Thanks to everyone who supports that podcast every week. I really appreciate it. I love hearing from you on Twitter and the DMs and the emails means so much I am sorry.

Do you hear that? It's Hey, it sounds like it's coming from over here oh my god, already for me.

Celebrity Voice (CRP) 2:33

All right, Jeff. You son of a bitch. I'll see you at the party.

Jeff Dwoskin 2:36

Arnie This is the party who told you

Celebrity Voice (CRP) 2:39

that Cohaagen Alright, let's say you're telling the truth. And this is the party. I could eat all the cake and it wouldn't matter.

Well, not all the cake. We don't have to go crazy now. Do we owe happy 100 Jeff, you have more cake ash over law and cake. I could head back to the swamp and make more cake. We can always have more cake. I don't care what you go help me with the cake. Oh Shrek no one wants some cake. Hey, Jeff happy 100 By the way, this is the nicest party I've ever seen nicer than any party I've ever had. Even when I married my dragon one this night. Just I have this parking ticket issue. So if you see Bogamil Would you let him know?

Hey, there you are. Jeff happy 100 Hi God you can do you know in case you really want to go canoeing? Yeah, get with splash about

a Hey Jeff. Happy 100 I love the moss themed party. It's so surreal. I can't tell if it's real a fantasy. There's a girl over that. I believe she has three boobs that just makes me wish I had three hands. I don't even know it's wild. All right. All right. All right. Hey, can we get some more air in here? Feels like we could do some more air.

It's Cohaagen. Why

won't anyone believe me? This cool. You can fit Oh, sounds like my kind of guy. I say Smithers Fitch BS resume and cocktail weenie? Yes, sir. Right away. Oh, yes. And congratulations, Jeff. 100 episodes. And this cake. It's made from real swamp. I don't know what's better. Oh, hey, Jeff. There you are. Congratulations on your 100 episodes. I don't know where he might want this propane and all your propane accessories. Oh, great.

Now there's two things that's not like, don't get

and I've got my banjo too if you're ready.

Hey, Jeff, your old bow. Patrick Warburton. Here. Congratulations on your 100 episodes. Wow, you've

got a lot to nerve showing your face around here, don't you? Well, Jeff, congratulations on your 100 episodes. I hope you enjoyed the ride. I have to get back to looking for Cohaagen

Seriously though, y'all. I did anyone else need more air feel like we could use a little more air?

Jeff Dwoskin 4:40

How look into the air. Thank you all for coming. This is such a surprise. Great to see all of you again. I'll be back in a little bit. Oh, wow. That was a shock. Thank you. Whoever put that together. Love it. Thank you. It's always great when people come together to celebrate you and this is our 100th Can you believe it?

And now it's time for the social media tip. All right, this is the part of the show where I share a little bit of my social media knowledge with you. I've been in the social media game my whole career, and I believe rising the tide helps us all. So a lot of people were asking me Jeff, what is this Twitter for business professionals? Should I do it? And I was like, I don't know. I'll look into it. So I looked into it. One cool thing about it is in your profile at the very top, you can choose like a category so like on my podcast now it says podcast. So you know, it's a podcast on my big mocker Twitter account. It says social media influencer, if I may say so myself. Other than that, I'm not sure there's a huge benefit other than on desktop, it adds a big promote button to every one of your posts. So really, Twitter business for professionals, it seems it's just a great way to get you to advertise more. If that's your thing is great. It's perfect. If you just want to have a cool little category in your profile, then do it. I did it. That's all I use it for. And there you have it. And that's the social media tip.

I do want to thank everyone in advance for their support of the sponsors. When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here live from Detroit, the Jeff Dwoskin show, and that's how we keep the lights on.

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I think it's finally time to share my conversation with Ronny Cox with you. You're gonna love it we talked about so much enjoy. I'm excited to introduce my superbly talented next guest you love demand deliverance Beverly Hills Cop one and two Robocop Total Recall. Taps, please welcome to the show. actor, singer songwriter, musician. aurania Cox.

Ronny, welcome to the show.

Ronny Cox 7:27

Hi, Jeff, how are you?

Jeff Dwoskin 7:29

I was talking to Billy Van Zandt recently. And so we were talking about the movie taps. And your name came up I just recently we watched the movie, which you're amazing. And, and he shared a story about you that I just I thought was so great. Billy Vanzant. He was a bug in taps. And he said he told me a story that you came to him at the premiere and made a point to tell him how great he was in the movie. Because a lot of it was about Sean pan and Tom Cruise, Timothy Hutton. I thought that was a very touching story kind of speaks a lot to your character. And I thought that was awesome.

Ronny Cox 8:10

Yeah, it was funny. You know, everybody talks about Sean and Tom Cruise because it's it was both their first films. A lot of people don't realize that Sean Penn that was his first movie. And a lot of people think it's Fast Times at Ridgemont High. And a lot of people think that Tom Cruise that he'd had both their first movies

Jeff Dwoskin 8:31

by Right, right. Yeah, it's an incredible first outing.

Ronny Cox 8:35

And while we were shooting it while we were actually in in shooting it in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania at Valley Forge Military Academy, Timothy Hutton won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor for ordinary people for the year before.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:49

I know that must have been that must have been quite a celebration. And with all of you guys.

Ronny Cox 8:53

Yeah, I'll tell you something else. You might not know about that. In many ways. George C. Scott wanted to play my character. Because because obviously the best adult male character in the in the film is Colonel Kirby. But if you get if George C Scott plays the colonel, who do you get to play the general?

Jeff Dwoskin 9:16

Yeah, he was kind of perfect for the general coming off. Exactly. I think he both ended up in the in the perfect spot. Well, speaking of the roles, oh, Billy had mentioned to me that like Tom Cruise wasn't originally that character either. That was somebody else. And they moved to No,

Ronny Cox 9:36

he was not as a matter of fact, Tom Cruise. He was sort of an extra kid. We got the King of Prussia a couple a couple of weeks ahead of time, and they were doing drills with all of the kids and there was another kid playing Tom Cruise's role and during the course of the the cadets, the actors doing the drills and stuff. There was one kid that was is doing it better than anybody else. And it was Tom Cruise. So they started occasionally giving him a line here in the line there. And then pretty soon they just moved him into that bigger role of the role of Shawn. Yeah, Tom. I think it was only about 18 or 19 years old at that time.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:19

That was young. It was like you said their first rolls. They all crushed it. Amazing performances all around. Yeah.

Ronny Cox 10:26

I've done three films, Harold Becker. And and I, I just think he's a masterful director. And we had a good time doing taps there in in Pennsylvania.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:38

Hi, I recently watched, how do you say this? When I think of you in movies, my very first comes to mind is Total Recall in Robocop the baddie phase, I admittedly had never seen deliverance, but I also didn't feel I could talk to you and not have seen it. So I just adjust watched it. And wow, it's a really great movie, and you're incredible in it and completely different character. That's I think you refer to it as the beginning of your boy scout period before Paul Verhoeven got his hands on you and turned you into a baddie. But wow, that was an amazing first film and what an amazing cast that Burt Reynolds Jon Voight

Ronny Cox 11:18

well, he I don't know if you know, this not was Ned Beatty's first film too

Jeff Dwoskin 11:23

well you both kind of nail to the park. So it's,

Ronny Cox 11:25

we were cast totally independently of each other. And they didn't know we knew each other. And we've been best friends for eight years, and had done about 20 or 25 plays together. And so Ned and I, Ned and I were best friends from we met in 1963. We're at Arena Stage in Washington DC. And and I don't know if you know this or not, you know, that originally, they weren't the cast deliverance with pretty much all unknown actors, or relatively beginning actors. And I was the first actor they found, they tested me at you're in California, I was living in New York, but they flew me out to California. And then a couple of weeks later, they tested Ned in New York. And because generally in the films like this, you know, you cast the two guys above the title before you cast the two guys below the title. They found me first and then they found Ned. And then we waited around two or three or four more weeks for them to decide on Jon Voight and Burt Reynolds for the other two roles. So that that that never happened before. And like you said, Drew, my character was this sensitive, nice guy. And in many ways I can tell you because you were said that Paul Verhoeven You always see me as a bad guy. Well, for about 15 years after deliverance came out, or 12 or 15 years, I got cast as only Mr. Nice Guy, because my character was was the sensitive one and and that gets equated with week out here in California or did back in those days. And so for me, I never got those bad guy roles, those roles that are so much fun to play because I was considered what's called a soft actor, you know that the sensitive view played soft and sensitive. You weren't in in many ways. Paul Verhoeven cast me as Dick Jones in Robocop, because he wanted to trade on that residual good, because I've been playing all these boyscout nice guys, up until then. And he wanted people to think when Dick Jones came on the screen, that the audience will say, Oh, here's a nice guy. And then when he turned out to be evil and bad, made him twice as bad. And I think that's a brilliance of Paul Verhoeven, finding that a way to turn that through as well on people

Jeff Dwoskin 13:55

that is a master class and understanding personalities and how the audience is going to react. Exactly. I'm embarrassed to tell you, I really wanted to talk to you because I love your work. And like, wait again, those were stuck in my head. And I was like, I was nervous. I was like, Oh, I hope I can talk to Ronny. I mean, it's so yeah, he's a authoritative instruct and, but I started to do the research. I'm like, oh my god, Ronny Cox is like the nicest guy in the world. And

Ronny Cox 14:24

well, that's a myth, but

Jeff Dwoskin 14:28

you're not take jobs. Okay, so Alright, so deliverance. This sort of ties into a little bit of your music, which we can thread throughout and kind of end with because I love that you kind of followed your passion into music. You were hired on deliverance, partly because of your ability to play guitar.

Ronny Cox 14:48

Yeah, now don't get me wrong. I'm not a bluegrass figure. But But I was. I put myself through to high school in college with a rock and roll band. I was cutting records. See, I grew up in New Mexico. And in Portales and 19 miles north of paralysis Clovis and so that's where Norman Petit studios were in our and I was actually around that's where Buddy Holly I was there when they went Buddy Holly kept Tige Sue, and there were other so I was cutting records in high school. So yeah, I play the guitar and one of the reasons I was hired for the piece was because I was at home with a guitar in my hand now don't get me wrong I didn't play that piece because you see the kid a billy written couldn't play the banjo that's not even his left hand in the picture. We've got another kid that knows something about the banjo because Billy didn't even know how to hold the banjo. And so we had to do what's in I'm sure you must know this about matching the playback Eric Weisberg and Steve Mandell pre recorded the song they went to Atlanta and recorded the song. And then when we were filming the scene, they would slate the camera and then once they called action, they they would turn on that thing and then Billy and I would hopefully match the playback. Since Billy didn't even know enough about the banjo to play it. John Borman wanted to be able to cut to someone's fingers playing the right notes. And so Steve Mandell, who was the the actual guitarist taught it to me note for note, so if you go back, go back and look at the film. I'm matched the guitar is playing I'm playing the absolute right notes. It's just that I did I play it? Yes. Is that me on the soundtrack? No. And did it cost me about a million dollars? Yes.

Jeff Dwoskin 16:48

Okay as of up right, because you've had been on the socket now i'd speaking of which I read I like to look at for some random trivia stuff that Dueling Banjos composed by Arthur Smith. The song was originally put on the soundtrack without his permission.

Ronny Cox 17:04

Well, yeah, see for years Warner Brothers in the original credits, it said Dueling Banjos was a traditional tune arranged by Eric Weisberg and Steve Mann del and they didn't want to play pay royalties. Now Arthur guitar Boogie Smith wrote that piece and he called up Warner Bros. Hey, that's my song. Kay had to take him to court. And it took them five or six years to work out. And so if you see the new versions of the credits it now it credits him but the original credits. The original title of the piece is feuding banjos, and it was played by two banjos at a folk festival, a four string banjo versus a five string banjos. And these two guys traded licks back, and a group called the Dillards had recorded it ahead of that time, too. So you can see why Warner Brothers thought that maybe was a traditional song, but Arthur Smith wrote the song

Jeff Dwoskin 18:02

Well, I gotta say, it's, it looks like you're playing it. They did a great job editing and I went back I did I did in my research, I learned about the left hand being not Billy reddens left hand can't really tell in rewatching it what kind of goes through your mind? Or what how do you feel about being part especially since it was like one of the very first scenes of the movie of your first movie to be in one of the most iconic scenes of like any movie?

Ronny Cox 18:27

Well, here's the thing that you got to know. Not only was that my first film, that was my first time in front of a camera, and we shot the film in sequence. So that was the very first scene we shot. So my introduction, I knew nothing about filming. I've been a stage actor all those years. And so it was unreal in many ways. And especially then going through the motions of technically matching a playback because matching a playback you have to sort of exactly play so so you end up playing the piece. It's just they're not recording you. And so my first acting job my first musicians fit with a lot going on there for a guy just breaking into movies.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:14

Yeah, that's unreal. First film first scene, it ends up being one of the most iconic moments in in movie history. Kudos, you I would imagine most people want to hide their first.

Ronny Cox 19:25

Yeah, well, and not only that, when the film came out, no one thought that Dueling Banjos was going to become a big hit song so there was deemed a record available. When the film came out. They actually played the scene from deliverance the Dueling Banjos scene from deliverance twice on The Ed Sullivan Show as a variety because there was no one around to go and play it. There wasn't a record.

Jeff Dwoskin 19:49

That's incredible. So I have a couple of questions on deliverance as well. It being your first movie one is I watched the movie and I'm thinking to myself Wow, it's it's amazing that Ronny Cox even wanted to be movies again after having to spend all that time in a canoe and that was that must have been insane shoots. And then as a follow up question to that, that thing with your arm.

Ronny Cox 20:11

Well, the things about the canoes, we did all the canoeing ourselves, there are no stuntmen in that. So we did all that, and my arm coming out of place. See, the original concept that John Borman had in mind was when they were going to put after Drew was killed, when they find Drew, John's idea was that they were going to find drew face up in the water with his eyes open. And so I was being fitted with false eyeballs. So that could look like my eyes were open under the water there. And while I was being fitted for that, I said to John Borman I said, John, you know, I can do a sort of weird thing with my shoulders. And he said, Well, let me and I see my I had polio when I was young, and my shoulders come out of place. That's actually my arms that's like that everybody thinks it's fake, but it's not. It's actually me. I'm old now. And I can't do it as well. But in those days, I could do it at will. And so I showed John that and he just fell down. He just thought that was the greatest thing. The way the best way to find your, and I can tell you know, Mike Hancock, he was a makeup artist in that was one of his very first films. Now, Mike went on to have a big career. He was Morgan Freeman's makeup artist for years, but they hired a young guy, there is very little for makeup artists to do. So all my cantock had to do was put some blue makeup where it looked like my shoulder was bruised, come out of place. And so when the film came out, everybody thought that if he had done some sort of fantastic prosthetic or something that to make it look like that. And everybody would come to him and say, Oh, Mike, how did you do that? Is a trade secret. I can't tell you.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:04

He goes on to win the Academy Award for and then you're like, No, it was me. I gotta say, finding you that way. In the movie. It was so impactful. I mean, like the find y'all twisted like that. It seems so real.

Ronny Cox 22:17

And another thing that sort of paid off, I read a sort of learned Tracy's review of the film. And one the guy picked up on this. And I think that sort of subliminally got through his Dueling Banjos that the guitar Han was yet they find the guitar neck broken, and they find Drew's arm. So sort of thematic, Lee, it just sort of tied everything together. It ended up being a sort of, I don't know, an important image.

Jeff Dwoskin 22:45

Oh, yeah. It's it stuck with me? I thought it was it made them finding you, too. So powerful. Like it added so much versus just if you were just floating there against the log or something like that. Yeah. So Burt Reynolds birds like big on TV at this point. But this is also not as far as this is what launched him as well,

Ronny Cox 23:05

Bert, back in those days, it's not so much these days. But in those days, if you were a TV actor, you were a two or three cuts below a film actor and see bird had been in television. You've been on Gunsmoke. And he did Dan August and riverboat, a couple of things like that. But he was he was kind of known as a TV actor. And I gotta tell you, every every actor in the world, one of those four roles, and so it was a big feather in his cap that Bert got that role. But three things happened that year that sort of launched Bert, because like I said, Bert was known as a TV actor, but he did deliverance. And people realize, holy, this guy is a really good actor. This is a great actor, and Burt Reynolds went on The Tonight Show for the first time and people realized how funny he was. And he did the center fold. And those three things that year just sort of pushed him and he became number one box office in the world right after that

Jeff Dwoskin 24:12

for a long time. Yeah, it's it's always amazing, just to kind of see how all the dots connect. I know you said you're great friends with Ned Betty. I know. I know. You worked again with them and Captain America in 1990. Did you do anything else with them?

Ronny Cox 24:25

Yeah, we worked together in grey lady down to we did the Bell Telephone our production of our town which won the Peabody award together with Hal Holbrook Ned nigh like I said, he was my best friend from 63 on you know, he died a year or so ago. But Ned and I have remained really close friends throughout our lives.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:47

That's great. That's it's such a it's a nice story. And it's it's great when you have someone that you can kind of experience everything you guys were both experiencing in Hollywood. Alright, so you are president and Captain America. You're also a private Isn't it and murder at 1600 We got to punch Alan Alda? Yeah,

Ronny Cox 25:04

I was also present in Martians go home and I was also ended up president. I think I ended up being president on Stargate I played the President about four or five times

Jeff Dwoskin 25:16

fabulous president and captain of the Enterprise D. When in Star Trek The Next Generation. Well,

Ronny Cox 25:23

Captain Jellico saved their ass on there if you all know the true thing we make Troy put on a uniform for God's sake and brought a little discipline to that ship. Yeah, you

Jeff Dwoskin 25:32

are strapped crew. But when you guys do, the card was captured by the Kardashians. What's he gonna do? You know,

Ronny Cox 25:39

actually, he served Captain Jellico. I don't know if you know this or not. But those two episodes, the chain of command the names that are those two episodes, titles. And they're the two highest rated in viewership of the all the Star Trek Next Generation, and people love to hate Jellico. But Jellico he served a number of really good functions for that show. For instance, Troy, I mean, she didn't want to wear that getting her out of that making her wear a uniform with at her request. And also, they didn't like internal conflict on the show. So they never could have other characters bickering back and forth with each other. And so by me taking on Riker, they could deal with that. And then one of my favorite things I don't know if you know this or not Jellico made them take the fish out of the ready room. And that was a direct perk for Patrick Stewart because Patrick Stewart had always objected to the fish being in the ready room he had said look we're doing is a series about the honoring the species of all the known universe, and we've got captive fish in a ready room that's anathema to what we should be standing for. But the producers love production value of being able to shoot through those through the tank so they didn't so when Jellico came on and said to get those fish out there that was a perk for Patrick.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:09

Well, well done. Man. So did you get a lot of letters for that like did people the fandom Oh

Ronny Cox 27:17

no, I the most letters I ever got vilifying me I got more hate mail from CO Hagen ticking over that fish tank in Total Recall

Jeff Dwoskin 27:28

oh yeah cuz you got a thing against fish it it seems and people would just sit there the people were dead. We're done with this.

Ronny Cox 27:34

And the thing is, we didn't lose a single fish. We had to catch that so when I kicked over that thing, I kicked him into another tank and we didn't lose a single fish but boy did I get male killing people priding them of air was not nearly as bad as kicking over the fish tank.

Jeff Dwoskin 27:53

Your friends have you over like hide the fish Ronny's coming over. It's got a thing. You've done so many things. Let's talk about Beverly Hills Cop one and two with working with Eddie Murphy. Detroit's own Axel Foley.

Ronny Cox 28:05

Well, I've done three films with Eddie I also did a little thing called imagine that with him. And I love working with Eddie I didn't I hate I didn't want to do cop two. I hate sequels. And the only reason I did cop two was because Boga mill getting shot was the reason for Eddie's character coming back to Beverly Hills, and they offered me cop three and I turned it down. I say this as a joke, but it's not sequels to me are little like putting on a wet bathing suit.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:38

I understand that.

Ronny Cox 28:40

I hate this. Robocop to I hate the meat remake of totally. I hate all of those films. Yeah, I just think they're dreadful.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:47

I have not seen any of the remakes of Total Recall or Robocop. I don't understand why when you have something that was made. It's so classic in the first place. Yeah.

Ronny Cox 28:56

Well, they wanted me for Robocop to they called me up and they said, Ronny, we're doing Robocop too and I said to them, you want to be in that? They said I said Don't you realize I just got shot out of a 40 storey window and in they should no no, no, we fixed up Robocop. How about if we fix up Dick Jones will make him a robo villain.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:18

Sounds like the one of the one of the better decisions and you're not taking Robocop to man, it's a rare I mean, I can think of Godfather two as being good sequel. But the it's rare that the sequels are good. It's it always kind of ruins the first ones about the

Ronny Cox 29:38

only one that I can think of where I like the second one better than the first one. And I like the first one. I love the godfather to

Jeff Dwoskin 29:47

a lot. Godfather two is great. Did you see Godfather two before Godfather one or did you see him? No,

Ronny Cox 29:53

no, no, I know. No. I saw we were in competition with Godfather one for me. deliver and so we the reason we didn't win anything on delivers was because that was the same year as the god.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:07

Okay, all right timing.

Ronny Cox 30:09

So I saw Godfather when it came out but I but then I saw Godfather two and Godfather two is fabulous. Now Godfather three we won't talk about but there you have it.

Jeff Dwoskin 30:22

They kind of retooled Godfather three recently I haven't I haven't seen it but I agree with you one and two. I think they both won the Best Oscar too. But yeah, one and two. Those are two of the best best movies in general. But yeah, in terms of sequel, I hate when they try to make comedy sequels. Those never work. I don't see. But sometimes you hope, you know, like maybe Wayne's World to be as funny as Wayne's World anyway, alright, so you hate sequel. So I guess I want to ask you if you're going to be in the new Beverly Hills Cop for a Netflix you kind of answer that? No, I'm

Ronny Cox 30:53

not. When I was doing imagine that the producer on that had the rights to Beverly Hills Cop Ford and asked me to do be in it. Then I said no. Does the term Fat chance sweetheart mean anything.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:08

You got to keep the classic things alive. It's just if unless it's like so great. It's just ruins I think the original ones make it makes you not enjoy them as much or go back to them as often. Alright, so working with Eddie Murphy was awesome. You worked with Richard Pryor and some kind of hero.

Ronny Cox 31:23

Oh, I loved what Richard Pryor and I became really, really, really good close friends. He was one of my closest friends, other than Ned Beatty, and maybe my closest other acting friend in the business was Richard Pryor. What a fabulous. And you know, the film we did was the one he did immediately after he had almost burned himself up. And he was in a really kind of fragile state during the way he was called some kind of hero with Margot Kidder was in it as well. I really loved doing that. And I did that film immediately before I did taps because I remember we did a thing. I don't know if you know that, you know, oftentimes, when they shoot telephone scenes, they shoot one side, they shot my side of a telephone conversation with Richard's character. And I was in my office and we shot my side, but we had not shot his side by the time I finished my work on there. So we still had not shot his side of that scene. And so I went off the king of pressure to do tasks. And I don't know if you know, this not the worst thing to do. If the other actor is not there, the actor is having to say that the lines and they're having the lines, the feed lines are fed to him via the script supervisor. And there's nothing worse than acting with a script supervisor that's there. So when it came time to do Richard side of the scene, they set that up. And then they called me in King of Prussia. And I got on the phone. And I played all of the scene with Russia on the other end of the phone. And I don't know that that's ever happened before or since. But it was really satisfying for me to be able to do that for Richard.

Jeff Dwoskin 33:14

That's awesome. It seems that it would create a better performance also. Yeah, I read on your webpage you had a blog about about the movie, some kind of hero. And you mentioned that when Richard Pryor met you, he told you the head he admired you as an actor. Yeah, it was

Ronny Cox 33:31

kind of embarrassing, because see, that was the thing with Richard some kind of hero. Like I said, he was fragile during that time, and some kind of hero had a lot of sort of dramatic stuff. And so he's obviously the King of Comedy, but he was a little nervous. And so he was nervous of all things about working with me. And it was kind of embarrassing for me that here's this most fabulous designer in the world being nervous about working with me. It was it was kind of like I said, it's kind of embarrassing, but it also

Jeff Dwoskin 34:07

has to feel kind of good. Like This icon looks at you in such a way I know then you converted that into a friendship and that probably all leveled out. But the but in the beginning, like just to find out that oh, this person thought so much of me. It's got a it's got a it's got to hit you inside a little bit.

Ronny Cox 34:24

Yeah. Well that I proposed that I don't have it. And this was equally embarrassing. I don't know if you you know, Patrick Stewart's big breakthrough role was Excalibur, which was directed by John Borman oh, what I didn't realize is that one of Patrick Stewart's favorite movies in the world was deliverance. So when I got the that role of Captain Jellico on Star Trek, the first day I showed up to work, here's Patrick Stewart, and he comes in and Patrick Stewart sort of stops and said and I started chatting to all the crew guys. I'm working with Ronny Cox. I'm working with running cars. It was totally embarrassing. He was he was going off about him being an getting to work with me. Go figure that out.

Jeff Dwoskin 35:17

I think that's awesome. It's fun. It's got to be touching to find out that you touched somebody like that where especially someone that you probably admire, you know, as an actor and think highly of that they already thought that of you as you walked in the door. I think I think that's awesome.

Ronny Cox 35:35

Yeah. Well, it was it was pretty embarrassing. Yeah, I understand

Jeff Dwoskin 35:39

that humility as you're being the humility of it, but like, but it's, it's cool that to know, and on the higher level that you you touched someone with your work. Yeah. And that they appreciated you so much. So that's pretty cool. I know. We touched on Robocop and then the other movie deal with Paul Verhoeven, Total Recall with Arnold Schwarzenegger, yes, I was working with Arnie.

Ronny Cox 36:02

It was actually kind of good. We ended up getting along really well. Now, Arnold is a bit of a bully, but I don't think necessarily on purpose. See, Arnold came up in that whole sort of macho body builder, Mr. Universe, and sort of the way you get by in that business was dominating people. And so Arnold way of dealing with people was to sort of be intimidating to them by being intimidating. That's just how he was he really kind of bullied some people. And I knew that that was never going to be worked for me, as an actor. If I'm playing co Hagen that I'm going to be kept telling to this guy that's my undergoing. And so I knew that I had to sort of establish some sort of territory from the beginning. And so from the first time we met, I am on Oh, this is Ronny, Ronny, this is Arnold. And he had on a pair of really garish shorts and, and I said, Oh, Arnold, I love your shorts. And he said, Oh, you love my shorts. And I said, Yeah. He said, How come you love my shorts? And I said, I said, I wish I had two pair of nice two pair. I said, Yeah, wonder crap on one to cover it up with. And so there was this moment. And then he thought it was funny. And so from that moment on, we had a sort of relationship that was based on a sort of mutual put down. He made fun of me playing Dueling Banjos, and I'm a big Star play the banjo dog. And so we had this relationship that was sort of based on, like I said, mutual put down and we got along really well. He got a little mad at me. I don't know, you know, when he was elected governor of California, I went on the Jon Stewart show, because he wanted to talk to me about and that was trying to make a joke. John Stewart asked me had said How was working with Arnold and I said, well, in Total Recall, you know, I taught Arnold everything he knows about governing, and, and so on. I didn't think that was so funny. So

Jeff Dwoskin 38:23

Well, I think it's funny. Well played, well played. So and then I read that you we mentioned Captain America earlier, but you were doing at the same time as Total Recall. And you were like flying all over the world doing both? Yeah, I

Ronny Cox 38:35

was. We were shooting Captain America in Yugoslavia. And we're shooting Total Recall in Mexico City. So I was flying back and forth between the two.

Jeff Dwoskin 38:44

Do you watch any of the new Captain America movies?

Ronny Cox 38:46

I have? You know, I gotta tell you the truth about that Captain American movie, that Captain America movie that we shot in Yugoslavia. It's practically unwatchable, I think. But it was one of the most brilliant scripts I have ever read tokens script. It was fabulous. And unfortunately, and I I'm not gonna name his name, but the director just sort of missed the point of that film. And it could have been the iconic action film hero of all time. We just missed because it's it took it like two years to even go to video and it had good people in it. I mean, it had Melinda Dillon, Ned baby there and maganda it had some really good people in that film.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:33

I remember seeing it I remember seeing probably when I came out as a kid. I loved all those things though, because I was so into like superheroes and stuff.

Ronny Cox 39:41

We shot the bird Nick, at that time you the Slavia and it was great fun to be there.

Jeff Dwoskin 39:47

The other interesting item on your when one other interesting item on your IMDB is cop rock, which I mentioned also because I read that this was sort of we started pivoting and just Deciding to kind of go more in the direction of music.

Ronny Cox 40:03

Absolutely. I tell you the truth, and you can check with any of the guys at people that were on cough rock from bochco to all the actors, everybody that's worked on that film. That may be the most enjoyable show I've ever worked on in my life. Now it failed miserably, because it was 20 years ahead of its time. It's a boomer in 1990, who heard of cops all of a sudden breaking into song and stuff, but the music was all composed by Randy Newman. And we did five live songs every week on the show, you know, there were 13, or 14 of us that were regulars. And so no one works every day. It's the only project I was ever in, where I went to work every day, whether I was called or not, because I was so fascinated. And while we were doing that series, I realized how much I missed the music in my life. When it closed, I turned down all acting work for a couple of years, and went to Nashville and managed to get a record deal at Mercury Records. And I did a record there, it got really, I won't go into it too much got really great reviews, but sold maybe four copies. I mean, I'm not a country artist, I'm really more of a folk artist, it took me another two, four or five years to find the folk music community. But that's what got me back into music. I made a decision about oh, 10 or 12 years ago, that I wouldn't let any movie or television show interfere with any music gig that I already had booked. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't like playing big. I'm a singer songwriter, storyteller. And so I like smaller, more intimate venues. And that's what I seek out. And so I'm not in it to make big money or to be big stardom. What is this? See if I can explain this. I love acting, and I'm good at it. But I love the music a little bit more. And I can tell you why with acting, no matter what kind it is movies, television plays, you name it, there is and must be that imaginary fourth wall between you and the audience. You can't step through the camera and talk and interact with even if you're doing a play, you have to stay within the confines of the character and the play. Whereas the kind of show I do, it doesn't always happen. But the kind of show that I'm interested in doing is there is a profound possibility of a profound one on one sharing that can take place I want my show to feel like it used to be when we were kids in the living room or the front porch or just sharing songs and stories and stuff with our friends. And so because of that, I don't like to play venues more than three or 400 500 people at the most. And I've played sometimes I play house concerts, I don't really have 40 or 50 or 60 people. And so what I do, let's say it's a an audience of 500 people, as soon as they open the doors, I go out and I'm meet with the people. And I want to have as much personal contact with the people before the show starts so that by the time the show starts, there's already a sort of rapport that I have with the audience. And I gotta tell you, that is an opiate that is undeniable,

Jeff Dwoskin 43:41

I can relate. I do stand up comedy. So I kind of understand on the level of you get up there, you have your songs you've written, I have my jokes, and I'm going to do but there's sometimes just things that happen in that moment or you you connect with someone or something happens and it's just amazing. This is never going to happen again, moment. And it just makes it so special.

Ronny Cox 44:04

Well I can tell you another aspect of that. And I give seminars, sometimes it Folk Alliance concepts about this, of encouraging people that do the smaller venues like me to do this because you know, we all need to prepare ourselves to do the show warm up and do all that kind of stuff. And I do that I just do it earlier than that because I'm there as soon as they open the doors I'm there meeting the people and so when people come in the people that closet, there are certain other people that closet themselves away those artists closet and they come out and whether they want to admit it or not. They're relegating themselves to starting with second rate material because they're coming out the audience is a stranger to them. They're a stranger to the artists. They're not about to do their best stuff until they get the audience warmed up. Now don't get me wrong. Their second rate material may be better than my first rate material but I I can start with whatever I want to because I've already established that relationship.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:05

I understand that it makes perfect sense. Exactly. It's like sometimes like, if I come out on stage, comedians will come on stage and they can reference something that just happened. And then there's that moment where you know that they just were referencing you that the previous comedian or something that happened, the audience and you they connect that fast, and then they go into it, you've sped up how fast they're going to become part of it. Yeah, well,

Ronny Cox 45:27

and you know, to that if something screws up, and you somehow own that, because rather than turning the audience off, in endears you to the audience, because it makes it so they know they're in on something that happened that this is not part of it. I'm a big believer in owning your mistakes.

Jeff Dwoskin 45:45

I remember I was doing I think it was a comedy contest once and the person that went before me it was just, I mean, the act I came in explain it. It was just horrible. I come out. And I made a one line comment that I prepared in reference to that person. And it got such a laugh. Ronny, it was the biggest laugh have ever gotten. But in my head, I'm thinking myself, Oh, I just screwed myself. Nothing I've got coming next. Is this funny?

Ronny Cox 46:11

Well, I say revel in those moments and don't worry about not being able to capture it again. I agree. I agree. That's sort of my philosophy of because for me, less is always more the simpler. You can do anything in acting it the simpler it is, the better it is.

Jeff Dwoskin 46:31

I agree with that. I agree. 100% I was jealous of one of your albums yesterday. I think it's your most recent one. Live at the kitchen sink. Really good. I enjoy your voice. It's really it's really nice to listen to your your singing. I was checking out on Spotify.

Ronny Cox 46:45

Yeah, I'm proud of that. That's a live album. No overdubs. No retakes. No nothing. I mean that's a totally live out

Jeff Dwoskin 46:52

the night John Houston died. I enjoyed that one a lot. Did you know him or did it was he?

Ronny Cox 46:57

Yeah, if you go to my website, you can also look see that that live album Live at the kitchen sink. There's also stories that go with all we recorded the whole thing so you can listen to the story of John I was the reason I became an actor is because of John Hughes. I encourage you to go to my website running cars.com which talks about live at the kitchen sink that there's a place there where you can listen to the stories from live at the kitchen sink.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:28

Alright, I will check I will check that out. I would love to submit that experience is there anywhere else people can keep up with you i on a the other socials now I'm gone. So the best way to keep up with Ronny Cox is Ronnycox.com. Cool. I can't thank you enough for hanging out with me. This was so fun.

Ronny Cox 47:47

Thanks, Jeff.

Jeff Dwoskin 47:48

How amazing was Ronny Cox? Huh? It was worth waiting 100 episodes, wasn't it? If you haven't seen one of Ronny's movies in a while go treat yourself. If this was the first time you heard about Ronny being a musician, head over to one of the music streaming services and treat your ears to a little Ronny Cox music as the interview is now over can only mean one thing that's right. It's time for a trending hashtag from the family of hashtags add hashtag or around download the free always free cost you nothing hashtag roundup app at the iTunes or Google Play Store get notified every time a hashtag game starts tweet with us and one day one of your tweets may show up on a future episode of live from Detroit. The Jeff Dwoskin show fame and fortune awaits you. This week's hashtag Keeping with the theme of the episode is #FakeRobocopFacts. That's right from the fake facts game on hashtag round up comms #FakeRobocopFacts, your ultimate source or non reliable information on Robocop. I'm going to read the tweets. They're all retweeted at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter. Go check them out, retweet them, show him some love.

Alright, here we go. #FakeRobocopFacts He is based on the tin man from the Wizard of Oz. It was designed and built by an Anakin Skywalker when he was six. I'm a person. My name is Anna Ken and I built Robocop at night. He's a robo telemarketer. Robocop will block you if you DM him about his extended warranty. Taylor Swift's 10 minute version of all too well was written for Robocop. He'd buy that for $1. But there are supply chain issues. These are some great #FakeRobocopFacts. He is best friends with the Terminator. I'll be back, he has an estranged son who became a vending machine in Portland pepper pot started dating him on the rebound from Iron Man. He's been known to slide into Rosie the robots DM on more than one occasion. Oh, thank god these are been tagged. #FakeRobocopFacts wouldn't want him coming after us. He's a member of the underground fight club named Rockem sockem Robo cops, Dick Jones fell in love with Alex Murphy's wife and had Murphy killed so they could be together. I'd buy that for $1 and the final #FakeRobocopFacts, his spare job is telling people about auto warranties. Oh, right. Again, those are all retweeted at Jeff Dwoskin show tweet your own tag is loved for you to play along.

Can't believe or at the end of another episode. Oh my gosh. 100 episodes. Can you believe it? Thanks for celebrating with me. Thanks for being here week after week. I can't thank you enough. I'm going to head back to the party. Feel free to join me and if not, I'll see you next time. Hey, everyone, I'm back.

Celebrity Voice (CRP) 50:46

Oh, if you do like to canoe I got you 100 Goldfish, but I heard Ronny doesn't like goldfish. Would there be a problem? Are those one appetizers? Ooh, my

guess I got 257 Goldfish. Thanks to the fat man.

I had a known

you have to keep the fish away from CO Hagen.

If he touches the fish again, I'm writing a stern letter. I am saying that seriously, like little more area. We just get a little more air. Jeff, you got an extra windy crack man just this little more. I.

Announcer 51:17

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Jeff Dwoskin show with your host Jeff Dwoskin. Now go repeat everything you've heard and sound like a genius. Catch us online at the Jeff Dwoskin show.com or follow us on Twitter at Jeff Dwoskin show and we'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai