#81 Fred Grandy from The Love Boat Comes Aboard

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Looking to sound like you know what's going on in the world, pop culture, social strategy, comedy and other funny stuff. Well join the club and settle in for the Jeff Dwoskin show. It's not the podcast we deserve. But the podcast we all need with your host, Jeff Dwoskin.

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Alright, Ted, thank you so much for that amazing introduction. And you get the show going each and every week and this week was no exception. Welcome, everybody. To live from Detroit, the Jeff Dwoskin show. As always, I am your host, Jeff Dwoskin. Great to have you on board for another amazing week of podcast goodness. I was expecting you. You know who else I was expecting. My guest this week. Fred Grandy. that's, right. He came aboard because I was expecting him gopher from The Love Boat. Oh my goodness. Yes. We had such a great time talking about his time on The Love Boat. The cool things he did before including his time on mod, The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Death Race 2000 The Roger Corman classic, his TV show a Monster Squad. We also talk about his foray into politics when he was a member of the US House of Representatives from Iowa. And of course, we talk about some of the amazing stage work that he's done, including his current one man show give him hell, Harry, this episode has it all.

So yes, if you are looking to meet someone and fall in love, by the end of this episode, you've come to the right place. My conversation with Fred Grandy is coming up in just a few minutes.

A few awesome changes to the show. Just wanted to point out real quick, you might notice a ad at the beginning of the episode and some pop up during it. These are sponsors and advertisers that help me keep the costs down and allow me to keep bringing you the show week after week free of charge. Everything's free to all of you. And I appreciate the time you spend. And I want to be able to keep doing this week after week. The other great news I have by the end of the year, you'll see extra episodes popping up. I'm always talking about crossing the streams the live show I do weekly at 9:30pm. Eastern time, we'll be doing best of episodes and showcasing great shows you should be watching in podcast form. Those will show up on the same podcast feed as live from Detroit, the Jeff Dwoskin show, it will be part of this podcast family so you'll be able to automatically enjoy it if you like, subscribe or follow the podcast. So thank you very much in advance and I hope you love that and I can't wait to hear the feedback when they start to show up in your feed.

I got so much great feedback from last week's episode with Mike Reiss. If you haven't checked that out, check that out. Mike Reiss was one of the original writers for The Simpsons, and he was also a showrunner during some of its amazing early seasons with Al Jean. Al Jean was also a guest on the show. Search both those up you love the Simpsons, then you'll love that from Detroit, the Jeff Dwoskin show that brings you the best of Simpsons interviews.

Also, after you listen to the interview with Fred Grandy. Go search up my interview with Ted Lange. Isaac from The Love Boat. Jeff, you had Isaac and gopher on your podcast? Yes, I did. It's a dream come true. My conversation with Ted is equally awesome as the one that you're about to listen to that I have with Fred two amazing people that I am so proud are now part of the live from Detroit Jeff Dwoskin show archives of interview goodness

and now it's time for the social media tip! all right I love this part of the show. This is where I share a little bit of my social media knowledge with you you know from the hashtag ground up tweets I read at the end of the show from my hashtag ground up account. I love social media been involved with social media for so long. And I like to just to share quickly during the show a little bit of my social media knowledge with you things I pick up on the street, little 411 if you will. Today's tip is more for us zoom users out there looking to sound great, my friend Fred pass this along to me. There's sort of a hidden feature in zoom called original sound that will make you sound way better on your zoom calls when the Zoom interface is up. When you're waiting to be brought into a call or you're on the call and the bottom there's that microphone button and you click the little up arrow next to it. Then you can click on Audio Settings and then do the following. Uncheck Automatically adjust microphone volume and then scroll down a little bit more and you'll see a section called music and professional audio check show in meeting option to enable original sound and then also check then also check high fidelity Music Mode. Make sure Echo can Installation is checked and check stereo audio. Once you do all that, then when you're in the actual zoom interface in the upper left, you'll see something that says original sound off. All you have to do is click on it to toggle it on and it will automatically start making your sound way better on your zoom calls. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it's totally awesome. And that's the social media tip!

I'm so excited for you to hear my conversation with Fred Grandy. We talked about his role on mod is Adrian Barboza boyfriend being on Welcome Back Kotter with George Carlin, what it was like having FL mermen as his mom and loved Bo working with his daughter and working with his son on The Mindy Project. And of course, we dive a little bit into politics. As I remind Fred of some of the bills he sponsored, so many amazing stories, but I do want to thank everyone in advance for their support of the sponsors.

When you support the sponsors. You're supporting us here at live from Detroit, the Jeff Dwoskin show and I can't thank you enough. I do also want to call to your attention. If you're living in Southern California, Fred's Wax Museum, the legendary monster exhibit if you love wax, if you love monsters, Fred's Wax Museum is a place for you. Frankenstein, Dracula, the werewolf. All the scary monsters from your childhood can be found at Fred's wax museum and wax open 9am to 6pm weekdays 10am to midnight, spooky midnight every weekend. You love wax and you love monsters, head on over to Fred's Wax Museum. All right. Well, thanks again. I appreciate you embracing the sponsors. It means the world to me. And I think without further ado, I would love to share my conversation with you that I had with the amazing Fred Grandy.

Alright, everyone, I'm so excited to introduce you to my next guest. He served as a congressman. He had his own radio show, starred in The Mindy Project mod numerous stage plays. But if you're like me, he'll always have a special place in your heart as gopher from The Love Boat. Come aboard. Fred Grande. We're expecting you. I couldn't I didn't sing it. Yeah, welcome to the show. Fred.

7:21

Thank you. Nice to be here. Nice to be remembered. I used to be anywhere at this age.

7:28

I know it's it. I think in my head. Everything is captured the way I watched it originally on TV. I think most people are in denial. No,

7:35

I sometimes I feel like I'm a mastodon, you know, like preserved in a glacier somewhere. Because most people that have I don't know, remember that moment in time. Go for and I was on the show for eight years. So listen, I'm not complaining. I live in the house that go for built. So it's not it has not been a problem.

7:56

Yeah, I mean, I grew up watching you on the law boat. And I want to talk all about it. Because I'm sure there's a lot to talk about. But

8:04

so you grew up, right? Well, that makes one of us.

8:08

I know everyone can't see it. But you do you look great. So you look like you just take a nap shot in time. One of the nice things about being able to do an interview like this is I get to go kind of deeper and look into a lot of things. So I'm really fascinated at one point to talk about when you switch to politics, because that was one of the things as a kid I remember like go for left LeBeau and he went into politics. I had no idea what that even meant. And then

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not sure I do now. But anyway.

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One of the things that I learned was that you went to Harvard. I did. And you were in an improv group and Harvard.

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Yes, a very famous improv group. As it turns out the proposition which started not in Harvard Square, but in Inman square, which is one subway stop way we began in the back of an Indian bakery. So that show caught on in the Cambridge area. And I began my career there, as did Jane Curtin, Joshua Stell, zero son, Paul cripple, a couple of other people that went on to have careers and and then we moved, we moved off Broadway, and stay there, oh, gosh, four or five years, and a lot of people came in and out of that show. And it's still, I think, maybe the best training for people who want to do comedy. It's not the only chain, Jeff. I mean, a lot of people think, well, if I'm an improv, I can do everything. That's not true. But it is a great fundamental not just for being in show business, but for being in politics, too.

9:38

I can imagine. I can imagine. Click on your feet.

9:41

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I've done hundreds and hundreds of town meetings and little cities all over Iowa. And had I not been in the proposition I probably would have crashed and burned. I've

9:51

only done stand up comedy for many, many years. I never specifically did improv, I sort of got a feel while being on stage to kind of just go with it. I wouldn't call it improv, but nobody

10:02

changed very much the same thing. I mean, I did stand up comedy for eight years as a member of Congress. So you think I'm kidding, don't you?

10:11

I don't I don't actually. But it's still various. It's so funny. It's so funny. People

10:16

asked me why I left Congress and went back to showbiz. And I said, I got tired of working with amateurs.

10:22

You were too good for them. Right?

10:25

Well, I would never say that to them. Because, you know, they'd cut off my social security, but and I'm being rather serious. Now. Some of the worst acting I've ever seen in my life as well on the floor of Congress, interestingly enough, when I was just a kid getting out of school, and I'd finished the proposition, and I was married when I was in college. So when it came time to graduate, like a lot of people who are misguided at that age, I thought, well, it's time to put aside childish things and get a real job. I mean, I've had a wonderful time being in this improv group. But that's, that's a college thing. I'm can't do that for a career. So I did what a lot of people did, I applied to law schools, you have to take the law boards, you know, and I had law board scores that weren't even a good bowling score, Jeff, I mean, I applied everywhere. I got into one law school, which was the Salmon P Chase law school on the third floor of the YMCA in Cincinnati, and I decided not to matriculate there, but I went down to Washington and became a congressional aide for a guy whose proceed I eventually won. But at the time, I remember sitting up in the gallery because I was just a lowly staffer, a gopher, if you will, watching members of Congress hold forth nice. I thought, Oh, my God, this is the worst acting of our See, I can do better than that. So I left and went into summer stock in Vermont.

11:42

Everyone has their own inspiration.

11:44

Yeah, well, mine was to get out of town.

11:48

So when you made a foray into acting, yeah, one of your I mean, you were in love American style and episode of that, but then you were in mod for like, an entire season? Well, I

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that's how I began. And I'll, I'll give you a little backstory with that, after the proposition. My first big break in New York was a two character, comedy drama with an actor you may have heard of named James Woods, Jimmy woods, and I did this play called Green Green Julia. And this is, of course, long before either one of us got into any kind of a political life. And he was a big deal. I mean, he was an up and coming young star. So we did this play. And I got some nice notices in that play. And it came to the attention of Norman Lear. And his casting director was a woman named Jane Mary. And they were looking for somebody to play Adrian Barbosa boyfriend. So she came to New York, she saw the show. And she said, We would like to fly you out to California to screen test for this role. And I'm like, 22, or something like that. I mean, it's all brand new to me. And I actually, I think the thing that saved me here was my naivete, but had chance to think about this and really process it, I would have been scared, I would have probably wet my pants and not even gone. But I went out there. I tested and they gave me the job. And the next thing I know, I was I was on the series for Well, I don't know, seven or eight episodes that year. And that got me out to California. And then I went back to New York and back to California. And that's but that really is what began. That's how I got unmod and that's that's really what moved me to California.

13:16

Well, that's an amazing first foray. I mean, it's just to be around that level of talent right out the gate. Oh, yeah,

13:22

he was he's a he's a brilliant actor. I don't know if he does that anymore. Now, he seems like he's too busy on Twitter, but we got along very well.

13:29

It's easy back on Twitter. I don't even know. But I was I was

13:33

the same same trash can with Trump. I guess. There must be a hitless somewhere.

13:39

I met on mod though, is what I met with BR. Oh, no,

13:43

no, I know. That was a wonderful show. No. And I got along with all of those people. Most of them wound up doing love Bode bieden never did but Conrad bang and Rue McClanahan, and Esther and Adrian did the show. I think Bill Macy did the show, too. I can't remember. But But yeah, I mean, it was it was a great way to start. I was very lucky as a young actor I got to work on work with two of the real kind of comedy moguls at the time. One, of course was Norman Lear. And the other was Grant Tinker, you know, doing a Mary Tyler Moore Show and Phyllis and a couple of other things that he did. And of course, Mary Tyler Morris where I'm at Gavin MacLeod

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this is gonna ask you that that's where you're first connected. Well, I

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wouldn't say it was a real connection was Hi, how are you? I'm got two lines in this show. It's nice to see you. Don't be strange keep in touch. But yeah, no I'm and Ted Knight and Ed Asner and got along with everybody. And as her and I had a little bit of a complicated relationship. He came out and campaigned against me when I ran for Congress

14:44

I had had on the show. Yeah, I can imagine politically you guys would be on the opposite sides there. So

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yeah, we got along kind of the way the Israelis and the Palestinians do I mean that kind of like that.

15:00

That's fine. Okay, well, but but as actors I'm sure yeah.

15:03

Oh, sure. No, no, no and Betty quite of course who didn't? I don't know she she must have done five or 10 love books. She was on all the time. That must

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have been fun. It was before I get to one big one before the LeBeau Death Race two.

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Oh, Death Race 2000 with David Carradine and Sylvester Stallone. Yeah, yeah, that was interesting, because I was, you know, I had a supporting role in that. And it was, it was a low budget movie, as all of Roger Corman's movies were, I think we shot the entire movie at some location in Pasadena. And they just kept moving the furniture, furniture around some lobby to make it look different. It was a futuristic type thing, but they put all the non stars it was everybody but David Carradine at the time, and a little Winnebago trailer, and we just hang out there in the morning and drink coffee. And I remember, actually, I knew Stallone, because Stallone and I had done a commercial in New York years ago for something called Rapid shave cologne scent, which was the kind of thing that made you supposedly you could shave and then you wouldn't have to put on deodorant, because it would make you smell so good. Except eventually it became something they used in Vietnam called Agent Orange, but at the time, they didn't know that anyway. So Stallone was in the trailer and we connected once again, I'm sitting on the trailer one day is going away in this movie is about a fighter. Just what we need another picture about a fighter right? That's it. I'm sure it'll be fine. Slide

16:32

12 movies later. Yeah, yeah.

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But anyway, as far as Death Race 2000 was concerned. I think we shot the thing in two weeks. corpsman cut it in another week. He released it in the fourth week and made his money back in

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the fifth week. Roger Corman, he knew it. He knew what he was doing.

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He knew absolutely what he's doing. He was was kind of the earth Aaron Spelling of cheap beef licks

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and so many people got their start and Roger choreographies. Yeah,

16:57

no, no, no, no. I mean, it's it's nothing to be ashamed of. There's no such thing as a bad job. I don't think of course, unless we're talking about pornography or something like that. But yeah, I mean, people who think they're too good to do things to me, usually wind up not doing anything at all.

17:13

No. I said that. I meant it. I mean, like James Cameron, I think did Parana before all his big sugar them and

17:20

sure, no, oh, well look at the people that pass through our show. And the people who had had glorious careers. I mean, we had people like Vincent Price and Helen Hayes and, and Sir John mills and Ethel mermen and Ray Bolger. I mean, so the fact that James Franciscus turned us down. I mean, we could live with

17:40

that. You guys had a lot a lot of guest stars. We did indeed. Before The Love Boat. There was Monster Squad.

17:48

Oh, one of my faves. My favorite. I found it on YouTube, by the way. Oh, show? Yeah, no, it's still there. Yeah, still there.

17:55

Oh, by that? I mean, I watch some of it.

17:57

Yeah. How about that Pat Boone outfit right. The bow tie?

18:02

Sweater your bow tie? white box? Yeah,

18:05

no, no, no, it was. Now that was a show. You want to talk about speed. That show was produced and directed by a guy named Bill DeAngelo ability. Angelo, who had made his bones on Batman. He was one of the original guys on the Adam West and reward show. And we shot pretty much the way they shot Batman, which was just let everything hang out. I mean, if you as an actor, after one of the scenes would say, Billy, could I go again? I didn't really feel as though I was in the right move. His idea was cut it print it ship it. We're doing cartoons here.

18:40

This is a Saturday morning show, right? Well, yeah, no,

18:43

no, no. Well, it was it. Yeah, it was it was a Saturday morning show. And NBC had the somewhat benighted idea that rather than have cartoons on Saturday mornings, which children loved and still do, they'd have some live action shows. So ours was one of them. Monsters might it was you know, I thought it was kind of cute premise. I liked it a great deal. And the actors were great. We had a wonderful time. Let that go. So just so everyone knows. Fred played Walt, who were at Fred's Wax Museum. Yeah, that's right. Worked at Fred's Wax Museum, and Walt red green. And then there was this wonderful that this guy named Michael Lane, who was just big tall guy who had been in a Humphrey Bogart movie and I don't know if he had been nominated for an Academy Award or something like that, or they come close to it. But anyway, he was serious movie guy. Then there was a guy named Henry Pollock the second who was in all kinds of series and a very talented character actor he was on do you ever see that show that Mel Brooks did a parody of Robin Hood called when things were rotten? Bernie Capello was on that show and Dick Van Patten and dico da and, and Henry Pollack the second and he didn't. Oh, gosh. I don't know how many series he did. He was like the biggest deal in the show at the time. And then there was this wonderful old guy named Buck cartel alien who had made most of his success in Planet of the Apes. movies so nobody ever saw his face. And of course in this movie played The Wolf Man, so nobody ever saw his face again. That's

20:07

amazing. And those are like some of my favorite movies too. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, Pollock was Dracula. Yeah. And then Michael, was Frankenstein

20:17

and Bucky cartel Ian was Bruce the wolf. Yes. W wolf was Bruce w will and we would fight a villain every week. Sometimes it was Julie Newmar sometimes it was Avery Schreiber. And it ran for 13 episodes but that experiment never worked with NBC the live thing on Saturday morning was was not a keeper for them though they I think they can do both all of the show both of you know the the slate of shows on Saturday morning and the the network execs who thought it up there was a purge after about 13 weeks. I did

20:50

like that you had a crime computer it was right at you could tell was in the vein of Batman because it was labeled.

20:56

Oh yeah.

20:58

Right said crime computer on it. Yeah.

21:00

And we did the same thing with the fights you know, they would have the WoW powers always stuff. So it was that cool. Yeah, it was it was a Batman Batman derivative.

21:09

That's fine. I did notice that there was some other things later but called Monster Squad but unrelated, unrelated. There was a there was

21:16

a movie called Monster Squad, which is much more serious. Right? Right, right. We were the Paternoster of Monster Squad. So

21:23

I think yes, the last big sitcom you're on before heading into Love Boat fame was Welcome Back Kotter.

21:30

Yes, with George Carlin.

21:31

George Carlin was on that episode, George

21:33

Carlin played a DJ and I played his assistant. That was an experience too, because he was he was a very good actor, you know, because he is so well known as a kind of defining presence in comedy. You know, you can kind of chart those guys who were relevant comedians, as opposed to just joke meisters going back to Mark Sol and Lenny Bruce and George Carlin, he and Woody Allen, those guys came out of the same era. But Carlin was a good actor too.

22:00

Oh, absolutely.

22:01

It's interesting, you know, Jackie Gleason said something that always resonated with me. And to me, Gleason was the greatest comedian we've ever had. But So somebody asked him in an interview years ago, what's the difference between a comedian and a comic? And he said, well, a comic says funny things. And a comedian says things funny. And he said, You know, it's interesting, because most great comedians are great actors. But not all great actors are great, comedians. Very true. And that was true of that was true of Carmen.

22:31

A lot of comedians are great, even dramatically like Robin Williams, John Candy, Jim Carrey, all of them are amazing in the drama, drama,

22:41

and deletion was two I mean, ever seen. He saw you know, Gleason the hustler and GIGO. And the stuff he did with Burt Reynolds was a little sillier, but he was always great. And, uh, you know, if you go back and watch those early honeymooners, that still is coin of the realm, as far as I'm concerned, in terms of type written comedy, and that was the source from all blessings flow. As far as I can tell, if there had been no honeymooners. I'll bet you anything. There would not have been an I love loose. I'll put money on that. Alright,

23:11

I'll back up that bad. Okay. Right. Good.

23:14

We're together now.

23:15

Right together. We're together. Yeah. So how did the Love Boat come today? There was pilots before the series.

23:23

Well, if you want to go way back to the Jurassic period, in my view, it began with love American style. Remember that show? Yes. Okay, that little vignette comedy show that was on for and I did one of those. And the guy that produced that at Paramount was a guy named Douglas Kramer, who was a pretty successful executive producer at Paramount. And he, having done love American style, read a book by a woman named Geraldine Saunders, which was something something on the love boats, and she'd been chronicling her experiences as a cruise director. So Kramer bought that book and decided to he would try and create a love American style motif on a ship. And although he had some chops as a producer, the network's were not bowled over by this idea. I went up for the first pilot, I was told I was all wrong. As a matter of fact, none of the original cast was in the first pilot. So they shot that thing and it sunk like the Titanic. And then apparently, Kramer had enough clout at Paramount to get them to do another pilot. And this time they cast Ted and Bernie compelling me in the roles we eventually played, but they had a different captain, and they had a different cruise director. But it was the same premise, different stories, romance, and we actually took a cruise on that we were on the we were on the Pacific Princess as I recall, and that one never went anywhere. So you know, most people say well, and usually in TV one strike and you're out but somehow and this this is something that I don't think Cramer ever got Credit for he managed to go to Aaron Spelling and say, look, the network's not getting this. But there's a germ of an idea here that I think could be a hit. And spelling who of course, had a sixth sense about these things, looked at it and said, Okay, we'll do another pilot. Well, of course, ABC was the producer. And at that point, ABC was known as Aaron's broadcasting company. So they're not going to say no to this guy, right. But the feeling was that we're doing this as a favor for Aaron. This show is gonna go right in the toilet, but because he's Aaron, we will give him one more bite of the apple. So they cast it again. This time they got Lauren tweeze, who was cast literally the night before the first day of shooting, and Aaron, to his credit, went out and got Gavin MacLeod who had just come off The Mary Tyler Moore Show. And I think Ted's talked to you about this, you know, Gavin was told don't do this show. It's gonna suck. It's gonna be terrible. But But Gavin and Aaron both saw something in this that smelled like it was going to be a success. So he was he was not hard to convince to do this show. So third pilot shot this one on the Queen Mary didn't go anywhere, just you know, down in Long Beach shooting the thing, and they bought it. And of course, the critical reception in this thing was absolutely vile. I mean, everybody thought it was gonna be a flop. They couldn't stop ridiculing it. And it was a hit from day one. It was a huge monster hit. And they put it in the graveyard position on Saturday night at 10 o'clock. And the first thing we did was not The Carol Burnett Show off the air.

26:33

Dam you.

26:35

Yeah. And, and then they put Kojak against this. And we kicked his ass. And and so you know, all of a sudden, they finally came around and said, Oh my god, this is absolute gold. And we were not I don't think we were even through our first 13 episodes. This is you know, this is back in the day, Jeff, when you did 25 episodes, right, routinely and your first 13 were the ones that decided whether you'd go on? Well, I think they picked up our show after the first four or something like that. Wow. And then from that, it just became a volcano of success. Within a couple of years. We were traveling up to Alaska, and then all over the world. And at that point, it was not just it wasn't just a show it was a third world power, because they sold it all over the world. In Greece, it was known as toplay otusa GoPass. In France, it was like cacio sabew's. In Mexico, Barker Diem or something like that. The only two places I know where it really tanked were Great Britain, England, and Japan, Japan, it was called rubble bottle, and it was a flop. And the Germans liked it so much. They even tried to copy it as copy, which is a nice word for plagiarism. They developed some show called town shift, which means dream ship, and it wasn't the same.

27:51

So you're international. So you can't go anywhere in the world without being recognized.

27:57

Well, I can now I mean, there's there's a little water under the bridge at this

28:01

point. So the 80s the 90s.

28:05

No, no, at that point. No. I mean, there was a situation we were we were shooting in Turkey. And we were at a ancient Roman ruin called Ephesus. And near there, there's a little Turkish village called Kosha Darcy. And so on a break, we went down to Kosha Dossey, because they were known for selling leather goods. And so we decided we look in their shops and see if we could find some leather goods. So I'm, I'm kind of half in and half out of my costume. I didn't want to get completely undressed, because I was going to have to get back into it. So I think I had my, you know, my shirt with the epaulets on and I was wearing long pants or something. So I walk into this shop, this little shop in this little town, and the proprietor of the shop takes a look at me. And he runs out into the street. And I hear me Stan, welfare is here. There 1000s of people who have faced or pressed against a window. And that's that's the way it was. I mean, there were places Greece and Turkey in particular, where we had to be cordoned off like the Beatles. Remember, you know, when they when those guys would tour. Yeah, well, that that was true with us in certain places, too.

29:12

That is incredible, but probably scary. Also, well, it was

29:17

a little scary. But you know, nobody goes into this business to become anonymous. Okay, so it was, it was it was more thrilling than it was scary. But there's like a degree and like yeah, no, no, no. And, and, and the nice thing I think about Love Boat is because all of us actors, Gavin included, I think he if he were around he would admit this to we were all journeymen. I mean, Bernie had been bouncing around for a long time done all kinds of great stuff, but had not really caught on. And Chad had had a couple of successful shows, but they didn't last very long. Lauren was brand new. I was you know, I was bobbing from one audition to another. Nobody knew who I was. And so when this thing caught on, we were very much aware of our role which was a cast of supporting players, and the real star was the ship. And then of course, the guest stars who were always built first. And it was only over time that we began to develop our own personas and personalities and fan bases and because we weren't catapulted into success, like for example, and Erik Estrada on ships or or Henry Winkler guys like that. I think we were able to catch up to our celebrity, or if you prefer stardom, without it taking its toll on us, you know what I'm saying?

30:29

Yes, yeah. And so grateful.

30:32

I'm grateful for that, because none of us got heads that were so big that we wound up shooting ourselves in the foot. That's good. Yeah, no, I'm sorry. Good.

30:41

So let me ask you a question because I was just say 10 or 11 year old Jeff watching The Love Boat so okay, I went have caught on to this but I was rewatching the videos and there's a lot of videos with is a whole three minute video I found of just you kissing people on the Love Boat.

30:57

I did not compile that video. I

30:59

don't know I've compiled I kind of remembered Bernie being like a ladies man is a doc.

31:05

No, no, he was he was and he and Bernie made a big deal out. I mean, Bernie who had you know been playing guys like Sigfried and guys with funny accents. All of a sudden he's a leading man. And so he was he was very taken with that concept.

31:19

But you had your leading now you got to kiss Marcia Brady and you Maureen McCormick. McCormack and you had the with the Lauren tweeze it was an episode where you are with

31:31

Oh, yeah, that was a famous episode. Julian Gopher, that's that's still considered to be one of the the jewels in the archive. We didn't think about it at the time. But it turned out to be a favorite episode for a lot of people. But yeah, there were a lot of I mean, it seemed to me the first two seasons, if I had a romance or any kind of intimate relationship, it was either with Barbie Benton or a chimp. And then after that, I wrote an episode about a woman who is coming on board because she's just gone through a kind of painful separation, she and go for kind of catch on. She's older than he is. It's a May December thing that was Jill St. John. So I was not a problem.

32:09

No, you know, when I saw I was watching a clip with Bernie and he was, like you said, loving the fact that he got to be a ladies man. When I talked to Tad, Tad shared some stories of the people he got to kiss. Sure. Just he was like, You guys must have really enjoyed being on a boat.

32:25

Well, I mean, to enjoy, I mean, now I was considered to be somewhat inept and not obviously kind of the sloppy second to Bernie but you know, over eight years, you get your licks in and come on the show was a romance.

32:41

So absolutely. Did you get away from or just have a flirt with her?

32:45

I remember there was a there was a I wrote a show that Billy Crystal did called the kissing band. And and Mike and Ike Mike and it was a show I did for Ted. But the kissing bandit was a guest star show with Billy Crystal and there was a woman who was on Adas enough named Laurie Walters. I don't know if you remember her or not she good actress. I met her we actually went out for a while. Even I'm not sure I remember Eve.

33:11

I remember there was a scene where you were You were flirting with the plum. I just remember because flirting Come on. Well, I was just remembering because it was I was just trying to figure out how many people from The Brady Bunch you were with?

33:23

I did a play with Christopher Knight Does that count?

33:27

But the scene is and then Gavin is Captain Stubing comes up to you and says, Go vote. Our job is to board all the passengers not just a pretty once.

33:37

Well, he was wrong about that. I never accepted that. I mean, you know if it's if it's a choice between you know, soupy sales and and you'll say John, I know who I'm going for.

33:49

So how how is working with because that episode they had Billy Crystal wasn't at least on that episode. I think Todd bridges, Robert Reed, Nancy called no Nancy

33:57

called Yeah, and Pat Carroll. Oh God, Pat Carroll. Myself, Pat Carroll play Falstaff in Washington. So one of the best fall staffs I've ever seen. Pat Carroll, if you please, if you please. Yeah. You know, Nancy Kopp ran for Congress. Did

34:12

you know that? No, I didn't know that.

34:14

I didn't know that. No, Nancy come big liberal. Evidently, I we never talked politics. You know, when we were on the show, we did the show. We didn't spend a lot of time talking about Reagan or the war in Vietnam or anything like that. But But yes. Eventually, Nancy called went back to Pennsylvania to run for Congress. And she was very liberal. And she was running in a relatively conservative district and her co star but Epson went out to Pennsylvania and campaigned against her and apparently did a TV ad that said, Nancy, I love you, but you're just too liberal.

34:50

You think being on the Beverly Hillbillies together, they would have formed a bond. Well, maybe

34:54

they did. Maybe they didn't but it didn't extend to political views. So

34:57

it's fun. It's funny hearing you tell the story. because when I talked to Ed Asner, he was telling stories about Charlton Heston him and the two of them. Sure, it just it's interesting to hear the stories like that you just shared an ad going against you. And suddenly, only in the sense that it kind of puts today in perspective in the sense that things don't really change. Like, I feel like a lot of people are just becoming polluted. I don't wanna go too deep into politics. But I just my point is, there's always been like this. Yeah, well, there

35:27

has been, but it's much angrier now. I mean, I've got I've got friends that I shared with in Congress and friends that are still there. And they would tell you, it's it's a much, much more vicious climate do we used to tear one another apart on the floor of Congress when I was a member of the House, and when we go out and have a drink together, that doesn't happen anymore? From what I can tell, and that's too bad. That is too bad. Yeah. And that's, that's one of the reasons that I think, you know, actors kind of understand the limits of extremism better than than politicians do. I mean, I never held it against Ed Asner, he's, you know, he's a liberal. I was a conservative and it came out the same the guy from from mash, what's his name? married to one, Shelley Fabrice, Mike Farrell. He was the same guy came out campaigned against me didn't beat me. I mean, I'm, you know, the end of the day, I was still standing, but that's what they do. That's okay.

36:16

I don't like that. Anyone. It went after you didn't they should have just said leave go for alone. Leave it alone. Yeah. He's done. For us as gopher as I, even though politically we're probably on different sides. Well, probably. But actually,

36:30

actually, that's that's an interesting point. Because I think I think very often, a lot of people who are not politically engaged are connected don't like to see their celebrities who may want to trashed in any way shape or form, even if it's a political rally. And so I you know, I can't be sure this but I'm not so sure. At Asner didn't get me as many votes as he lost. You know, people back home so well, he's gonna talk that way about gopher. I'm just gonna go vote for him. That's what I'm gonna

37:02

do. Right. So I was saying like, yeah, no, it's funny.

37:05

I don't know. From Michigan. Do you remember a congressman named Guy Vander Jack? No. Okay. Well, Guy Manna Jack represented Muskegon, you know, Joshua Hall and Grand Rapids area. And I had a very Dutch couple of counties in my district. And he was very popular. So I was clamoring to get my guy Vander jack to come out and campaigned for me when I first ran for office. And he eventually did. And he came out here, get a beautiful bass voice. I mean, the guy could have made a fortune in voiceovers, but he was many years in Congress. But he came out and campaigned for me and the people loved him. And when it was over, a guy came up to me and he said, you know that that vendor there? You know, he's a good talker. And I said, Yeah, he sure is. He says, Yeah, boy, I'll tell you if he's for you. I'm for you, too. And I said, Well, that's great. said one thing, though. What part on the Love Boat did he play? I mean, that's their orientation. Right? That's not Well, is he a Republican? How do you vote on the Oh, no. subsidies for agriculture? No, that's not what they're interested in. What part on the logbook that he played?

38:08

That is really funny. You served him for Congress's right 100 100 100 203 Yeah, from from 80. I was 8787 to 95. And then you started in Fifth Congressional District in Iowa. And then that was it was

38:25

the sixth and then it became the fifth because we kept losing people.

38:29

That's I was gonna ask I had fifth and sixth or died, said you're both I was gonna ask you what happened there? Okay. I couldn't

38:33

tell you bigger or smaller. i Oh, it's down to four districts now.

38:38

Oh, and then just just for a hoot bread. I looked up legislation that you sponsored. Uh huh. Okay. Oh, great. These now give me my I only chose these based on ones that I kind of understood what they say. Okay. Vegetable oil use Promotion Act. Yeah, yeah. Big, big.

38:56

I was on the Agriculture Committee for four years. So that was a big deal for me.

38:59

And then you awarded the Congressional Gold Medal to Rabbi Metacom Mendel Schneerson that became a law that one became a law.

39:08

Oh, Rabbi Schneerson is famous rabbi in Brooklyn.

39:11

So I thought that was cool and then you've to suspend temporarily the duty on zinc powder

39:18

Yes. Yeah, I have no idea why I did that but it was I'm sure it was important at the time

39:23

but I looked it up and zinc powder went through the roof after that night.

39:28

Wow. As well my boys on Wall Street told me and anyway

39:32

and then in 1992 You made it illegal to dismantle Rubik's Cube and put it back together and say you You did it yourself? Yeah, yeah, that one I made up that one

39:42

but I just sponsored them Jeff I didn't read them

39:49

so funny. So that's really cool. So so when you left to so I did I read I think the night if I got the numbers right and you can correct me but you know, sometimes these sites are wrong. You Did 246 episodes of The Love Boat right? Oh,

40:03

good. I'm glad you brought that up because I've always been wondering how many I totally did. Okay, so I got I did not know that 246 Okay, I got you down for 36 but there was only 250 Total No That can't be right then the

40:16

numbers wrong. I must have the numbers wrong. Cuz if you didn't leave right at the end Did you that's how I was gonna No no,

40:21

no, I left after my eighth year and I think they did another another season or two because they did one full season, which I don't know if it was still 20 shows or not. But then they had their final season they did a just a few through our movies.

40:36

Well then maybe maybe because if I go to IMDb it says like Gavin Ted who I know they and Bernie who I know are on all of them. It says 250

40:43

episodes. Well, then I probably did closer to 225

40:47

Okay, you are designing it for 246. So alright, well just say i don't know i That's alright, so then Zack questions he didn't leave right at the end.

40:55

Well, let's not dwell on this because I still get paid the residual. So if they think it's 246 and I don't start getting my checks from Zimbabwe. I'm going to hold you responsible.

41:04

I do not want to be responsible for that. Okay. All right. All right. Ethel Merman was your mom on the show. So yeah, I'll assume she's one of your favorite guest stars then.

41:13

Yeah. Wonderful woman and of course, an absolute icon in the business. Oh, very down to earth had a mouth like a longshoreman.

41:23

It is always a win. Like you get like a parent. Like I like like where like you get this celebrity parent because you guys are connected. Yeah.

41:31

No. You know, my father was Did you figure that out? No. Bob Cummings. Remember Bob Cummings. Love that. Bob. That might be a little before your time. He was a big TV star in the 50s Playing photographer kind of a low Theriault photographer, and his secretary was Andy Davis from The Brady Bunch data data. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, he played my father. Now, a lot of these folks. And this I'm trying to be as gentle as I can about this. They were a little past their prime when they did our show, some of them practically on life support. So he was not quite the effervescent guy. He was when he was a star in 1957. But he played my father. I always

42:15

thought it was cool, though. Like the whole balance between the old stars and the new stars. I always thought I always thought

42:21

that was Aaron's that was Aaron's I think brainchild. His his idea was we are going to reignite the interest, if not the careers in people like Greer Garson and Douglas Fairbanks Jr. and Olivia de Havilland, you know, people who had really made their bones, the glory days of MGM and studio system. But we're now you know, marginally involved with television. And of course, one of the nice things about the show is actors were treated wonderfully, particularly if they got a cruise. I mean, it was the it was the greatest perk in Hollywood for 10 years.

42:57

Oh, amaze me, let's say something about all old school actors. They just they probably come on stage and they just hit it. They just

43:03

Oh, yeah. Well, no and and that, that, you know, that's that's something that Ted and I appreciated very early on. Is it here are all of these guys that if you were an acting school, all you do is be able to look at old tapes of them or perhaps read something that they'd read or see an interview that they did all of them were on the show, we would take guys like Ray Bolger and Jack Gilford to lunch and just pick their brains. Kevin, I, this would be a couple of years ago now did this play. I'm not Rapoport, and we're playing two old guys in New York. I'm an old kind of Jewish communist guy. And he's an old guy. He was a I believe he's a doorman on a hotel or Runza. And I realized when I was doing that show that I was basing my character on all of these brilliant Borscht Belt comedians that I worked with Sid Caesar, and red buttons, and Sheki. Green, and Phil Foster, and all of these guys who came through the show, and it just you just assimilate that if you're paying attention, you know how much that would cost if you tried to do turn that into an

44:05

acting school? It's amazing. It's amazing. It's also really nice that you recognize in the moment that it was happening and took advantage of it, because a lot of times people would just look back Oh, why didn't I? Oh, no, no,

44:16

that's a very good point. But I think again, because we were supporting players, our heads were not swollen with how important we were. We realize this is a tremendous opportunity. Bernie and I wrote a show for 10 that featured Scatman Crothers and what an education that guy was. I mean, you're just you just remember these things. And you say, how lucky Could you be to be around all of these people? Vincent Price. I mean, can you imagine the story is Vincent Price crypto

44:44

amazing.

44:46

He told me a story about he knew I was from Iowa. And so he told me a story when he was a younger actor. He was doing a tour of the George Bernard Shaw play Don Juan and Hal and it was him sir Cedric Hardwicke. Charles boy a and Agnes Morehead and he says I'm where we're playing the show in Des Moines. This is like 1942 1943. And he said, so after the show, we go out and have dinner. And Hardwick orders fish in Des Moines in 1943. And the fish comes and harbor takes a bite and goes, long time no see.

45:24

Oh, great is that you know that it's so funny. So. So, you know, since you mentioned, I'm not Rappaport with Ted. Yeah, it's probably a good segue into your theatrical life.

45:37

Ah, now we're gonna get to promote my show. I

45:38

hope. Yeah, let's promote your show. So let's do that. Let's build up to it because there's two other things. Okay. shader wise. So you got that with Ted. That was one of the interesting things I learned about Ted actually, like all that plays, he's written some amazing stuff.

45:51

Oh, yeah. This guy writes plays the way police officers write citations. I mean, he just knocks him out one rat. I don't think I've read as many places. He's

45:59

fascinating, fascinating subjects. Yeah, you were in How to Succeed in Business Without trying with Don Ameche.

46:06

Oh, yeah, that was a wonderful experience. Don Ameche was one of the only guys who never did The Love Boat that I really considered to be a mentor. And this was before you know, this is before he came back, this is before Trading Places and cocoon when his career had been reignited after he was essentially ostracized from Hollywood in the late 40s. Oh, he was I did not know that. Oh, you know, no, no, he had the apparently there was some scandal involving I think the why for the paramour of a studio executive. And so he fled to New York and was on Broadway for a while and then kind of disappeared for a long time, and then came back. Oh, wow. But you know, that this is this is how the business treats you, you know, we were doing how to succeed in business in this would have been 1982 1983, something like that. And I was built above him. That's wrong.

46:54

But I lived with it. That's that Monster Squad. Had to be Monster Squad. Yeah. And then with your daughter Mariah, yeah, On Golden Pond. Yeah, that

47:04

was that was a place called Red House Theater, which we opened. We opened that theater and my daughter is a very successful singer and actress in New York and right now put in a little plug for her. She is in the process of developing, she's acting and dancing in a Broadway show. That's we're in workshop stage right now, based on the Devil Wears Prada. And they're going to open it up in Chicago this summer, and then supposedly moved to Broadway.

47:31

Oh, that'd be good. That's a great movie, great, great material.

47:34

But she's done all kinds of shows. And she has a sensational voice. But yeah, we were able to work together. And and that's, you know, one of the things I'm, I've got two kids in the business, Mariah, and my son Charlie, who is he's really the reason I was on The Mindy Project, because he was a writer and executive producer with Mindy. And he calls me up and he says, Dad, I've got good news and bad news. I said, what he said, Well, there's a role that's perfect for you on The Mindy Project. I said, Great. He said, here's the bad news. You got to audition. So I, you know, I got out my iPhone. And I did the thing. And I was I was on that show for three years. He's now doing he's he's got a huge deal with Warner Brothers and HBO max. And he's, this is interesting. He is developing. You can't call it a reboot. It's kind of a new version of Scooby Doo. It's going to be if there's such a thing as an adult version of Scooby Doo, this is going to be it features the character Vera, who Mindy will play, and it's an animated show. And he's been working on it for years. And so

48:34

it's Oh, that sounds fascinating. Yeah, it is. It

48:37

is. Yeah. So he's in the business. I've got one child who has some common sense. And she very wisely became a software engineer, and will probably be paying for all of us when we're in the motion picture. Oh,

48:49

yes, that is also a good profession. A good dad is alright, so that's awesome. That's awesome. It's good. It's good that you know, people in the business, it's good. And so let's, let's talk about your one man play, you're gonna be in my backyard. And Jackson, Michigan, just at the

49:07

Encore musical theater, I will be there from we actually open on the eighth of December and run through the 12th. And it is a one man play called give them hell, Harry, based on the life of Harry Truman, and it's not a new show. James Whitmore was doing this show almost 50 years ago, and he used to tour in it, but I kind of discovered it during the pandemic. And I looked at this thing and based on my political career and my show business career, I read this thing I said, My God, this guy is talking about working with Joseph Stalin and Dwight Eisenhower and the civil rights movement in 1948. And it is as current now as it was then. And you know, the whole thing about Harry Truman is here is a politician that everybody trusted. I mean, what a concept, right? What a concept. So so that's what the show is. It's mostly Truman's own words been re crafted by a very gifted writer named Samuel Gullu. And it is a one man show with me playing Truman all through his early career in World War One and running for the presidency and succeeding Roosevelt and of course dropping the bomb. That was his decision entirely creating the State of Israel, integrating the United States military and creating institutions like NATO in the United Nations. I mean, other than that, the guy didn't do anything but I mean, this is it's a he's a He it is it is worth remembering this guy, if for no other reason to kind of restore our faith in what politicians can be if they would just be as honest as he was.

50:40

That is good. It's funny you say because he said current now is it is that which is what I was kind of saying earlier, which we're talking about that a little squabbles. Alright. How about I did a little research on the play, like you mentioned, it's not it's not new. There was there was a movie where I think the person was nominated for an Academy Award. Yeah, they

50:57

they actually filmed a stage version of this, I think, either the late 90s, early 2000s. And Whitmore was Truman, the actor Kevin McCarthy, I don't know if you remember him or not pretty prominent actor in the 50s and 60s and 70s. He took it on tour for a while. And to my knowledge, Harry Truman's grandson, Clifton, Truman, Daniel has done it from time to time. But this is this is the version that we kind of contracted because you know, a lot of theaters now Jeff are saying, or at least they did during the height of the pandemic, they said, Look, we want to do the show, but you can't have an intermission because it's too dangerous for people to come out into the lobby and mingle, go back into the theater. Okay, so we did this at the Aspen theater in Aspen, Colorado this summer. And the guy who ran the place, Jed Bernstein said, can you make this to one act? And we said, Sure. And we did. And so we keep it at that. So it's about 90 minutes. It's very funny, but it's very moving to see how a politician and this guy was nothing. I mean, he was the son of a mule trader, people laughed at him. I mean, he was he had as much credibility in his career, when he assumed the presidency, as Love Boat did in the late 70s. When it went on the air, everybody thought it's over for him. And of course, he became one of the greatest figures of the 20th century. So it is it is a great, it is a great motivating story after let's see, after we do Michigan, we go to Syracuse, probably and then to the Utah Shakespeare Festival. So

52:25

that sounds so this is a play that you rediscovered yourself. And then you wanted to bring this

52:29

I discovered I went to my producing partners, one of whom is Ted, a couple of other guys and some Broadway guys. And I said, Look, first of all, it's a one man show, it's going to be an easy production assignment for theaters, because they don't have to worry about pandemic protocols. You know, actors don't have to wear masks you you don't have to worry about backstage because you're on stage for the whole show. So it is it is kind of pandemic friendly, if you want to put it that way. And so we pitched it and Aspen bought it and then the Encore theater bought it but it's it's a delight to do it just as somebody who came out of politics and has worked with a lot of people who I think now are something of an endangered species you know, people who you admired because they actually did what they said they were going to do. I mean Truman at the end of the play that I'm in turns to a bunch of reporters, he says boys always do right? It'll gratify summon astonished the rest.

53:22

Just common sense, then.

53:25

But common sense is not very common in politics these days. And so just it's a it's kind of a it's a cause celeb for me, I guess to do this

53:33

show. That's awesome. Here, I'll feed you one line, and then you can say it as Harry S. Truman. All right. No, sir. I don't give him hell. I just tell the truth. And they think it's hell.

53:42

No, sir. I'm not giving them hell. I just tell the truth. And they think it's hell. And then he goes on to say now, folks, I'm just running for office because I need a place to live. There's a housing shortage in this country, and I do not want to be a burden on the community.

53:58

It's all like real, like, just subtle, like humor. Like, oh, no, no, it's

54:01

great. It's wonderful, wonderful jokes in this thing, a very easy to Vineya ship through so you know, if you're in the neighborhood, I'll set you up. They know me there. So

54:13

this was so fun. Thank you. I can't thank you enough for hanging out with me.

54:16

Hey, is it over? I mean, it was never this one fast. I know, right? Yeah.

54:21

Yeah. Well, I we know what you're doing next. So we can skip that. Okay. Are you on social media or anything? Do you hang out there?

54:27

Just Facebook. I just do the old guy social medias. I'm not Instagrammer Now eventually, we'll probably develop a website for giving Harry and we'll probably put that on Facebook and Instagram and we'll do all that stuff to promote the show but I'm a little Twitter shy to tell you the truth because it seems to me that's just a license to to pull out the Long Knives do awesome.

54:49

I agree. Everything we talked about earlier the about the evilness and that yeah, the hatred, just exasperated. It's all because of Twitter. So don't get me wrong. I love Twitter but

55:03

okay, but social media gives you the anonymity gives you the cloak of anonymity. So you can say all these terrible things and people won't even know we are right. And to me that is that's cowardly. They're gonna insult me come up to me after the show and say You suck,

55:16

right? It's the old days, right? As Ed Asner would say, do not vote for friend. Yeah, do not vote for this guy. No. In this case, I support it as Oh, wow, Fred, thank you so much. This was so fun. Got a great time. Cool. All right. Thanks. Take care. Bye. Bye. All right.

How amazing was that makes you want to search up The Love Boat? Take a few cruises. If you do that. I wouldn't blame you. Right Grandy was awesome. You love that conversation and you're feeling like you need to head back to the Love Boat. Again. Check out the interview also with Ted lanch. If you're in Michigan or any of the future stops on Fred's give 'em hell Harry tour Be sure to check that out. If you meet Fred, tell him you heard him on live from Detroit, the Jeff Dwoskin show.

Well, we're nearing the end of another episode. And you know, that means that means it's time for another trending hashtag in the family of hashtags add hashtag or round up I'll hashtag round up on Twitter at hashtag roundup download the free always free no cost to you app from the Google or Apple Play stores get notified every time a hashtag game starts play along and one day one of your tweets may show up on a future episode of live from Detroit the Jeff Dwoskin show fame and fortune awaits you. This week's hashtag unlikely love boats storylines from the weekly unlikely game on hashtag around up that's right #UnlikelyLoveBoatStorylines where the internet got together to serve up some storylines were likely not to actually see on the love boats.

Here are a few of my favorite #UnlikelyLoveBoatStorylines. The Love Boat is actually a transformer they changed the name of The Love Boat to Mina the Guinness World Records recognizes Ted as the first and best ever finger guns Ted totally deserves that. That might be more likely but we're gonna continue with hashtag unlikely love boats storylines. They all find Nemo, that would be great actually. Ken Burns goes on a two week cruise to make an 18 week movie about it. That would be amazing new season of The Love Boat but yet unlikely at the same time. Gopher puts on long pants and becomes a US Congressman Wait a minute that actually did happen. Jaws makes an appearance. Oh, that would be an interesting crossover. To help boost ratings. The gang is hijacked by cat pirates cat pirates on the sea. It's nothing to laugh about. But yet that would be a hashtag unlikely love boats storyline, Donna millenia take a long overdue vacation together. This is The Love Boat Dan this was to find love. Well, maybe they do. Finally gopher ruins everyone's golf game. Wait a minute. I think that's a different gopher and a completely different movie. Julie anko ever wants to get married but the captain refuses to perform the ceremony. Oh, come on, Captain do obeying let this love happen. Doc discovers he is Isaac's father that would be on an unlikely Love Boat storyline. Everyone gets divorced in the boat sinks. Tom Poston and Charo stop an assassination attempt on Peggy Fleming that he would need to be like a two hour movie a crossover with Gilligan's Island. Two people decide that seven days isn't long enough to know someone before getting married. Ah, it's The Love Boat. That is unlikely. It was a three hour tour. Captain Stubing gets seasick the doctor likes to give horsey warm or to anyone who gets sick. Lambchop demands a cabin upgrade only to end up on the captain's Table menu. The Pacific Princess cannot go under 50 knots or everyone dies is there all amazing #UnlikelyLoveBoatStorylines. But we have one more Leonardo DiCaprio goes around the ship measuring all the doors you go Leo by the time we proved you could have fit on that door.

Oh, all right. Those are all amazing. #UnlikelyLoveBoatStorylines, all retweeted at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter, go show them some love. Well, with the hashtag reading over they only can mean one thing. That's right. It's the end of another episode episode. 81 has come and God I do want to thank my amazing guests, Fred Grandy for joining me. And of course, I want to thank all of you for coming back week after week. It means the world to me and I'll see you next time.

59:41

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Jeff Dwoskin show with your host Jeff Dwoskin. Now go repeat everything you heard and sound like a genius. Catch us online at the Jeff Dwoskin show.com or follow us on Twitter at Jeff Dwoskin show and we'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai