#17 Circle Gets A Square with Bruce Vilanch

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:21

Thank you, Billy, for such an amazing introduction really got me going. Welcome to Episode 17 of the Jeff Dwoskin show. I and Jeff Dwoskin. And we have an amazing show for you today. Oh my god, I have Bruce Vilanch in the house. That's right, Bruce lanches. Here we have an amazing conversation coming up shortly. Who is Bruce Vilanch? Of course, you know, Bruce Vilanch is six time Emmy Award winner for years on Hollywood Squares, head writer for almost every award show during the 90s and 2000s. And every Academy Awards, Emmys etc. He wrote the Star Wars Holiday Special. He was a head writer, and Danny Murray brought us The Brady Bunch Variety Hour, he is amazing.

And we got a great chat coming up just around the corner. But first social media Tip of the Week. This is where I like to share a little social media knowledge with you. I spend way too much time on social media, according to my weekly summary report that Apple sends me every Sunday. So I figure I'll make the best of it by sharing a little information with you. Here's a hot tip. On Twitter, do you know there's an advanced search that's right advanced for advanced people, but only advanced people kidding? Anyone can use it, you just got to know where it is. Here's the trick though. It's only really on desktop in terms of the interface when you search. There's like these three dots and you click on it. And it says Guess what? Guess what? Advanced Search. And then you can do all these crazy things with it hashtags, filter out replies, only do it over certain date ranges, lots of cool stuff like that. You can do it on mobile. Oh yeah, you can do it on mobile, but you have to know then how to type in all of the Advanced Search code. So you can do it on desktop, copy it, and then do it on mobile as well. So say, Oh, I want to find tweets from Jeff Dwoskin but only from October 15 1971. Okay, that that's not gonna work. But you know what I mean? So check that out. That is the social media tip of the week. Thank you.

And now a word from our sponsor the sponsor this week. Cheese, cheese. Hey, we're awesome at a party just put us right next to crackers and let the magic happen. Cheese. Also good. If it gets boring at your party, someone can always say Hey, who cut the cheese and you can say oh, I cut the cheese. And then everyone will laugh. Haha, cheese, perfect for parties. All right, well definitely support our sponsor, please. That's how we keep the lights on. Go out, buy some cheese, there's so many cheeses you can choose from I didn't even there's a Brie and American and Gouda. And other cheeses, lots of cheeses. So check one of those out and tell them I sent you. And thanks for supporting our sponsors, as always. And if you're interested in sponsoring the show in the future, contact us at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter. We're always looking for great sponsors. And we're happy to feature you on a future episode. We'll do a live read of your ad just like I do every week and it'll be so exciting. All right, let's do it.

In preparation for the interview with Bruce Vilanch. I reached out to my Twitter friend Mr. Jafari and the sci fi tags crew. And I asked them to come up with some cool questions that I could ask Bruce about the Star Wars Holiday Special they did. I wanted to thank them before the interview. Some of the questions I asked came from them great group. And it's a weekly game on hashtag Roundup, which is awesome. And they bring it every week fun sci fi stuff. Anyway, so you'll hear some of their questions. And I'm really excited for this conversation with Bruce Vilanch. I've been a huge fan of his for years, comic relief, the Academy Awards, all the work he's done, and the people that he's worked with. So exciting. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Bruce Vilanch. Hey, everybody. Hi. I'm honored to be joined by six time Emmy winner, Hollywood Squares legend. If you've seen the Tonys, the Emmys Academy Awards and you've shuffled along, it's probably because Bruce Vilanch wrote it.

Bruce Vilanch 4:47

Welcome. I mean, he got an award show writers. You have written them. I've written them. I've written every

Jeff Dwoskin 4:56

you've covered everything.

Bruce Vilanch 4:57

It's a book. I'm working on.

Jeff Dwoskin 5:00

As I as I was just looking at everything you've done, the one thing I was really curious about how do you how do you go from being Bar Mitzvah in New Jersey to becoming Bruce Vilanch? Like, how does that like, what does it look like? How do you? Yeah, you know, it's like,

Bruce Vilanch 5:17

was the minors of the Minor Prophets? Nothing he said came to pass. You know, I had to, I had to do something. Where did it start? It started I was a child actor, and I grew up in Paterson, New Jersey, and I was a child actor, and I was never out star or we'd be having this conversation in rehab. But my parents enabled me they were they realized I was really happy performing and happy being surrounded by show business. So they, they facilitated that. And at a certain point, I discovered I could write, and they were there, their biggest concern was that I would not be able to make a living as a as an actor, because I was, I was, I was heavy, and I had a deep voice, and I was much younger than the roles I was auditioning for, since I wasn't getting them. And I was too, you know, I couldn't play kid roles because I didn't look like I was born. 40 I didn't look like a kid. So I started writing and they said, Oh, that's great. Go get a journalism degree because newspapers will always be there. And so I got a journalism in a theater degree at Ohio State and was always continually acting and doing commercials and stuff and, and the writing, and I got a job at the Chicago Tribune. And I was covering showbusiness for the Chicago Tribune, I was a feature writer. And one of the first people I met when I got there was Bette Midler, who was on Broadway and Fiddler on the Roof. And on her vacation was was doing a nightclub act. And her manager was somebody who I knew from another performer and he said, Would you review her, give her some press, and if you like her, and I went, and I was knocked out, she was an opening act at a famous club called Mr. Kelly's. And she was great. And I interviewed her and I did a piece on her and she said that you're very funny writer. And I said, well, you're very funny. You should talk more on stage. And she said, You got me lines. And that was the beginning. And it was, it was only 50 years ago. It was my digitalis. Oh, Maurice digitalis, please. You'll be here in a minute. And then so that started and I was in Chicago for five years. I was in Detroit, before that as an intern for the Free Press. But many, many, many years ago. And I after five years in Chicago, I was writing for a lot of people I was writing for people who came through town who met me who knew I wrote for bet. And so I had a lot of television credits. And so I bet dresser had a brother who started the Manhattan transport Tim Hauser, and we put their act together. And they got a television series, a very short lived summer replacement series per share, for whom I also was was working. And I came out here to do that. And that was 1975. And, and I stayed, I stayed ever since. And, you know, I was writing a lot of that kind of stuff. And cable TV came in and killed variety televisions. When I came out here, there was The Carol Burnett Show, and Dean Martin and Sonny and Cher and Tony Orlando, with dawn and all these things. And they all went away because of cable. And they were replaced by the specials and big award shows. So I became a specialist in writing that kind of stuff. And after 20 years of that they asked me to write Hollywood Squares, and they put me in a square. And suddenly I was famous, and so forth and so on. I mean, I'm running on, but you asked how it happened. So

Jeff Dwoskin 8:41

now? I did. So I'm kidding. I'm curious in terms of when you met her, you know,

Bruce Vilanch 8:49

the other sense of the word.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:51

Yeah, I mean, go. What is the process of gaining someone's trust to the point where they trust you so implicitly, to just allow your words to come through them?

Bruce Vilanch 9:08

That's a great question. It's trial and error. You, Vic key other than having a comedic bent, obviously the key to writing for anybody really is to pay attention to them. And you have to exercise due diligence, you have to watch them, watch them a lot. Now it's easier because everybody is on video and whatnot. But back then you had to actually go hear them and listen, and hope that you capture their style when you're writing it. And if you do, of course, that's when they trust you. It's at the beginning they all write for themselves. And because nobody gives a shit they are they don't care if they're, you know who they are. And then they become stars. And once they once they become stars, they have to spend a lot of time being a star, the star making which they have, they're doing interviews and they're doing benefits and they're they're posing For a layout to an Architectural Digest, and then they're doing all the other stuff that comes with being a star, and that was, that was the time that they used to use to write. So that's when they take on collaborators because they need somebody to keep fueling the engine. And if, as I say, you've captured their, their, their ear, if you capture their style, then then they have your trust. It's kind of I compare it to Bob Mackie designing a dress, and he's designed them for everybody. And I mean, you know, you're not gonna put a fat girl in a mermaid cut, and you have to know what fits people literally. And it's it's a lot like that. It's the same kinds of it's comedy couture. It's got that and that's got two K's in it. The kit. You know, we all know K's are funny, right? The funniest? The funniest city in the world is pickled chicken, New Jersey. These are things that are in violent, or the other shade you like,

Jeff Dwoskin 10:58

is it? Is there ever been a person who decided to part ways with you and somebody else took it over? And there was like, a weird, like, what happened to that person?

Bruce Vilanch 11:07

Yeah, there have been I mean, I'm sure there are more than I know. But I mean, there was, there were some people who no matter what you gave them, it wasn't going to work like Engelbert humperdinck, which doesn't really matter. I mean, a lot of them are centered. And they found somebody they were more comfortable with, you know, took Michael Buble I started out with and he's a great guy. He's terrific. But he's, he seems to have found somebody who else who was more comfortable that was maybe Canadian, I don't know. But I love him. He's a sweet guy, loving man. He's been through a lot. He either has a kid who was sick and he was sick and you know, so I'm not here to knock

Jeff Dwoskin 11:50

him I think he's terrific. He's terrific. My wife gave me a Michael blue play CD once for Father's Day. So I became a big fan of it.

Bruce Vilanch 12:00

He stepped into that that that romantic but approachable. Andy Williams kind of slot that was vacant. Yeah, heck is Harry Connick is is hipper and project some more, more, I don't know Broadway, jazz image and which is not as you know, warm and inviting. That you know, you have to have that Barry Manilow has that which is why, you know, he has hundreds of thousands of women who are huge fans of his even though they know he's married to a man. They're still huge fans. That doesn't that doesn't deter I love Barry Manilow.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:40

You work with Barry Manilow really

Bruce Vilanch 12:43

best piano player right here and then when we started he was he was a freshman and became a music director. And then he got his own deal. He was always shopping for a deal for himself and he got a record label deal and so eventually, he finally he had to leave and he left and he had Mandy and suddenly he became a gigantic star.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:03

Yeah, growing up we had we listened to Barry Manilow and Neil Diamond and Australia's and all the the big Jews. As Barry Manilow was.

Bruce Vilanch 13:15

They're all out of Brooklyn.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:16

Right, right exactly is like

Bruce Vilanch 13:19

jersey.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:20

Barry Manilow was my first concert I ever went to with my parents. first concert without my parents was the Monkees, but like the Irish parents with my with my parents was very mellow. It was the first concert I ever saw pine knob. Right. So

Bruce Vilanch 13:37

that's where that's where I bet flash pies, find knobs at Pine knob.

Jeff Dwoskin 13:43

That's, uh,

Bruce Vilanch 13:44

yeah, I've been there. That's Troy. We were up there, but played up there with a lot of people. And I've and maybe I toured with Barry early, the first wave and I'm not sure if it was there yet. Find out the first wave of those big outdoor places. And then he had he wanted somebody who would be like full time for him. And so he had other people. But yeah, at the beginning, I put his first show together because it was the it was the whole Midler crew that when she was not when she stopped working for a minute, went over to him. She finished a tour and there wasn't going out. So he was awesome.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:20

Yeah. So how much how how much do you work with Bette Midler these days you work there like I did, she caught the politician and contract the script. Well, yeah.

Bruce Vilanch 14:29

Midler eyes it. Yeah. And, and, you know, she toured, I guess like three years ago was the last time I don't know that she's ever gonna do it again. She went into Hello Dolly for, you know, a year and a half and, and now she's working in television. So but that the last time we've we've worked together intensely was on the divine intervention tour. But there she does benefit. She does things. I talked to her all the time. I you know, she calls me up and we work on stuff together. And and the movies and other barriers that worked. You did two great albums. They did a Rosemary Clooney tribute album and Peggy Lee tribute albums and they had a falling out. You know, they're there, they've had periodic fallings out. This is ones lasting longer than most.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:17

I hope they get back together.

Bruce Vilanch 15:20

We're all working into our dotage, you know. So people, people will make amends as they see the end of the tunnel.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:29

Right, right. We hope right? Yeah. So what was it? What what tore him apart?

Bruce Vilanch 15:35

With something about the Peggy Lee album? It was? It was, I don't know exactly what I do know what it was, but I don't want to talk about it. Right. I mean, it was it by nature of an artistic dispute, ironically enough, but you know, back in the day, when they were both big at the same time, I mean, I'm still growing, that would get the greatest reviews and the greatest affirmation from the industry from fellow artists and not sell as many records as she would like to have sold. And Barry would sell as many records as anybody could ever sell, and would never get a good review. The industry kind of said, Oh, you know, they kind of joked about him, because it was so sentimental. And, you know, we call the Mary modulite. Because everything escalated, you know, and he was, he's such a great, I mean, he gave that trick to bet he's a great showman. And he is a terrific are obviously arranger and all that but he knew what he was doing. And, but he never got the the kind of props that she got. And they were envious of each other. She wanted his record, say he wanted the kind of affirmation she was getting. And then you know what, that kind of they both became so big, that it didn't matter anymore. Right?

Jeff Dwoskin 16:55

That wasn't right

Bruce Vilanch 16:57

after that book brought back after one of the falling outs is that they, I think they realized that there was room, they were both doing what they wanted to do, and having a good time. And they never have to work again.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:11

So easy Do you do like she'll call you in for like the TV show she's doing right now. And that politician, you know,

Bruce Vilanch 17:17

well, no, that's a Ryan Murphy show. And they they know what they're doing. I mean, right? The kind of stuff I would give her they've given her like, the A plus material in Ian Bannon, who basically wrote all of Jane Lynch's stuff on Glee is writing all of the the are you watching the politician? Or have you seen the boat? I mean, we just started season two. Yeah, well, well, the all the Hadassah stuff and the Judas light stuff is all I'm sure he had Bannon who was a terrific writer. And there's no no improving as needed there.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:49

Okay, I always think there's room for Bruce Blanche.

Bruce Vilanch 17:51

But think of the

commies hovering above it, you know.

Jeff Dwoskin 17:58

It's all there. So All right, cool. I just happen to a few weeks ago be watching the Paul in Halloween special This is before I knew we would I have amazon fire stick and they it does all this thing where it puts stuff on it just you know, just it just suggests stuff. So I started watching it. I find it fascinating to watch shows from like the 70s. And it's like, because it's so different. There's this, there's it's

Bruce Vilanch 18:24

a different world, a whole different style. And I look at that show every night, because they show me TV shows a half hour version of it. Sometimes they'll split the show up into two different shows. And it's just a whole different is a whole different thing. And I think about how it changed. Sharon, I live had a lot to do with how things change, because you could do stuff on that show. You couldn't do anything else. And as a result, a lot of the other stuff began disappearing because the audience was more interested in what was happening on Late Night. Anyway, I interrupted you but you were talking about the Halloween special, which is a work of rare genius.

Jeff Dwoskin 18:59

It is right it was one of your classics, you know, I mean, I didn't I always I thought it was it was watching it. I just thought it was really funny that kiss has what three or four songs they do on it. And focus, focus and focus

Bruce Vilanch 19:13

on my network help tells you what the world is like in those days because there were I mean, music acts and they didn't break through to network television. That was a separate thing. And they were a big I thought they were a big get when when we got them. But they were kind of eager, but they they didn't want to like betray their roots. They rock and roll roots by doing a schmaltzy thing that this was like the perfect opportunity. Come on because it was Paul, who was very hip, although he was on procedures square. I mean, everybody knew he was hip. And well I to me, he was like the archetype from Bye Bye Birdie. That was why he was so perfect in that character. He was the central Ohio dad with a twist And, and but it was him and Halloween. It was an unbeatable combination. And so they jumped at it.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:06

Yeah, I couldn't stop watching it. I just, yeah, Margaret Hamilton and I can remember and it witchiepoo and Betty White was in it Lawrence, I think was Florence Henderson. That's why it was though. It's funny, like you had Florence Henderson fising and then kiss would be singing a minute later. And

Bruce Vilanch 20:23

pinky tuscadero

Jeff Dwoskin 20:24

Yeah, love. Yeah.

Bruce Vilanch 20:26

girlfriend. roskelley. Yeah, that was that was her thing at the time. Yeah, it was it was quite a, it was quite a menagerie.

We had a great time. We had a great time doing it.

Jeff Dwoskin 20:40

It looked like there was a lot of fun. Wizard of Oz.

Bruce Vilanch 20:46

It was wizard. It was kind of Yeah, at the time. I mean, I'm writing a book now about how I wrote the worst television shows of all time and lived and time. I mean, there were a lot there was there were lots of weird specials, you know that were never you know, you Cole Porter in Paris with Connie Stevens left. What is that? There were lots of strange like strange, strange things. And it was the other my other great strange show the Star Wars Holiday Special. I mean, these were things that happened in the 70s partially because we were also chemically altered. I think it was a great idea. But also because that was that was the thing it was what television was trying to do was to, like, synthesize all the other all the pop culture that they could get into the, into the mall into the mix. And of course they use it was all to sell tampons, or Kraft cheese or whatever, you know, Black and Decker power tools, whatever the sponsor happened to be. So I doubt they sponsored the Poland Halloweens, but

Jeff Dwoskin 21:54

it was it was definitely good. The did you do you did a lot of work with Paulin?

Bruce Vilanch 21:59

Yes, he was still on Hollywood Squares, the NBC version. And then what had happened was he had a sitcom, The Paulson show, which opened with one of the highest ratings in television history. And the second week was about half as big. And it was because basically, he was not the center of a sitcom. He was too strange. He had a hard time being It was hard to be a real character. I mean, he was great. He was the kind of character that you would push into another story. And he would, he would be a, an exotic kind of character would come in there with zingers and one liners and stuff. But it was trying to make it the center and the and the audience didn't respond to him as the center of the show. And you had to put people around him who were cooler here than he was, which was hard to find. So they canceled it. And they paid him off with a slot on the Donny and Marie show, which I was writing. And he was a regular on Donny and Marie. And of course we he was great, because that he filled that role perfectly, especially for them. He was like this sort of sophisticated addition to the mix, I got to know really well on that. And he would say that he would be doing squares at night, he would say to me, come with me to squares I and we write stuff in the car, and then you have a lot of stuff that they gave him and all that. But until we got friendly and when and when part of a network deal was I think to give with ticket specials to see how he would play as a special attraction. And he did the ratings were always very, very, very well especially so I came on and it's special, including the Halloween one

Jeff Dwoskin 23:36

who knew who knew,

Bruce Vilanch 23:38

as I say, if we had known 40 years ago that people would still be talking about this stuff and watching it, we would have paid closer attention. And if Paul knew that 40 years after he died, we were still talking about and he would be astonished, because he really never thought of himself in that. In that sense. He really his internal turmoil was that he was a flash in the pan and he wasn't getting to do what he really could do. Unfortunately, I think he was doing what he really could do. And that was part of what what drove him to so much

Jeff Dwoskin 24:12

bad behavior. He definitely stood the test of time. I mean, I always knew him, you know, he's always you know, just a part of the entertainment culture that that I knew, you know, I mean, so it's he definitely made an impact

Bruce Vilanch 24:23

in a way that mean you throw a minute for one line and people go Oh my God, that's funny. I but yeah, you know, if you try to say well, let's do the poll in the now or if you if you put like a like a clip show together, you would see a lot of the same stuff. Not the same actual lines, but the same joke if anything beats the same be repeating over and over again, which is you know, hey, it worked. It worked if you want to see it. On a look at American Dad, that alien is pulled in.

Jeff Dwoskin 24:53

Right, right. green slime

Bruce Vilanch 24:56

who lives in the attic. That's Portland. I mean that that's McFarland doing A voice I think but it's pull in

Jeff Dwoskin 25:01

for sure for sure. Yeah. So you mentioned Donnie and Marie. You did. Marie was my first crush, so thank you.

Bruce Vilanch 25:10

Well, you know, we broke her cherry.

She turned 18 on the show. That was an occasion for a big birthday show and she she was in love with Barry Manilow and I got him to come on the show. As a surprise guest came out of a box. She didn't know he was there. But she was going to die that she was going to faint the way she did on Dancing with the Stars later on. He gave her a beagle puppy because he had a beagle and a bagel, which was part of his whole style. And so he gave her one of beagles one of bagels, puppies. I don't know. Well, this was many years ago. Oh, it was many years ago. I got the minimum. No,

Jeff Dwoskin 25:48

Do you still keep in touch with Donny and Marie.

Bruce Vilanch 25:50

Yeah. You have a reason on the talk every day and she's down here and mean you know I see her when I see her I mean I we talk not I stay in touch but I don't like it's not a thing wherever we could call each other down is up and down. He's back in the promised land Utah. And me you know they have grandchildren now and it's been awesome. And grandchildren are doing an act of Branson, Missouri that to the Osmond time that the grandchildren grown up grandchildren. So yeah, since I mean, they had a I was on their talk show and then and yeah, they they then were like in Vegas for 10 years. So we're gonna go they had a residency and when they ended that then they kind of, you know, career wise there. They've gone. They've separated

Jeff Dwoskin 26:32

again. So right they used to Dancing with the Stars. And then they did and Danny was just on the mask. I think last season the mask. The Mask Singer. Yeah, he's one of the mass singers. Yeah. So you also did Brady Bunch of variety our Yeah, everything of my other.

Bruce Vilanch 26:51

My hit

Jeff Dwoskin 26:52

another? I grew up on you, I guess. So thank you, I guess

Bruce Vilanch 26:56

were you sitting in Detroit and this man? Yeah. And the little suburban house just looking watching all of it. peplum, I was speeding, you know, I come to Hollywood with the transfer and it was very hip. We didn't get any ratings, but it was really it and got great reviews. And I was trying to get jobs on variety shows and they said oh, he's just to get these just to New York and all that. And, and Florence Henderson was somebody who I knew and she said come right The Brady Bunch we're gonna do this new Brady Bunch thing I said that Brady does I have to do that to prove myself. She said do it. They'll never say you're too hip again. Florence I knew from Broadway she was a Broadway theater actress and star but she had four kids and her husband was was she married a Jewish guy who worked for the Schubert's actually. And they opened the theater in LA. And they he came out here to do it. And he took charge of that. So she moved out here. I think that was what happened then. And with the four kids and got one to the television gig and this was the gig that she got. And of course, it changed her life because she was then marked as Carol gravy forever.

Jeff Dwoskin 28:08

Not the worst thing not the worst thing she had she carried that pretty well. and Wesson

Bruce Vilanch 28:13

oil. That what

Jeff Dwoskin 28:15

Wesson oil.

Bruce Vilanch 28:16

Oh, yeah. I'll say it chicken with personality.

She, yeah, she had never, she'd never cultivated the sophisticated side of her personality. She always was the bright eyed ingenue. Even when she did a nightclub back then, or played Vegas. She was never pretending that she was hyper sophisticated. I mean, she was just a straight ahead Broadway soprano. So that so it wasn't like she was betraying herself. She'd never really showed that side of itself to anybody publicly. So it was it was not the hardest fit for her professionally to become calibrating. But I honestly, I'm sure she did not think because nobody thought that it would last as long as

Jeff Dwoskin 29:00

Oh, it's last forever. I i have i've met Barry Williams, Peter and Cindy Comicon. As

Bruce Vilanch 29:09

Barry and Chris are terrific. And Susan is a good friend and she's out of her mind. But she she was Cindy yet. There are I mean, I like they're all there. They're great kids and now they're like great human beings, great adults. And I did the renovation show. I did a thing with Barry on the renovation

Jeff Dwoskin 29:27

show. Oh, that was just recently.

Bruce Vilanch 29:29

Yeah, very rarely renovation where they bought the house and they redid it look like the gravy house. I watched a couple of those. Yeah, yeah. HGTV.

Jeff Dwoskin 29:39

Exactly.

Bruce Vilanch 29:40

But you know, I don't think any nobody anticipated we'd be talking about these things. 40 years on, but then nobody anticipated the internet and how that would change the way information is shared. And how skeletons that you thought were long buried, suddenly come bursting forth out of the closet. You because there is a, there's a facilitated now It enables all of that stuff. So that's partially why this happened. But still, the Partridge Family which was the brainy bunches twin sister, was they were, they were, you may have watched that one too because it was an hour on Friday nights corner that everybody that everybody who watched those things watch both of them. And the Partridge Family were actually a real singing act. I mean, they were, they were all singers. But they never they didn't stick together and they never got promoted me promoted when when Fred Silverman wanted to do this show with the Partridge Family. He couldn't get them together. So he went to the Brady Bunch, because Florence, of course, was Florence and the Brady, the Brady kids had an act that they that they toured, they played state fairs and things like that. And so it wasn't the most natural thing for them to slide into a variety show up though. They weren't as skilled at it. I said was one captain and 71 to Neo and seven captains. And everything kind of had to be coaxed. So the purchase habits just like this internet bubble, the way the Grady's have, because the babies were always in reruns. It never stops like Lucy. The Brady Bunch has been in continual reruns since the show and off the air on ABC. And then they've been all the reboots, the TV, movies and the animated series in our show, the Variety Hour and so forth and so on right down to a very Brady renovation.

Jeff Dwoskin 31:35

The other big kicker, I said, TV on DVD, like when when box set had started being released, like that was the resurgence of Family Guy, family guy came back because of the popularity of that which probably we went to probably referenced american dad recently, a few minutes ago, because that's what that brought him back. I remember

Bruce Vilanch 31:52

canceled Family Guy. And it had it was one of those things that had such I didn't know was because of the DVD. I guess it was because I was seeing somebody who kept saying, Oh, you got to watch this show. You got to watch the show. And I watched that, but and it was I thought, yeah, it's like a Simpsons want to be and that was in the firmament already. And I was on at once. And but it was fine. It was funny, and I liked it. And then Fox cancelled it. And he said, he sent me a DVD. He said, you have to look at all of these because they're there. He gave me a DVD. Got an eye. So I looked at it and I felt like I forget to like and then I became a regular viewer.

Jeff Dwoskin 32:36

I love that show. Me I love all that stuff. Seth MacFarlane. I love the Academy Awards. Growing up, I remember always watching it. And I knew you were right on it. And so like when I was leasing, I did it being a stand up comic and have done comedy like it was I thought it was like the coolest thing ever to be able to write stuff like that, that other people would say it just to me, it was just like, it was just the coolest thing. So it is really, really an honor to meet you right now. So it's like it's putting that all kind of together. So it's really cool. It's really cool. So as many as I've seen, it can't be easy writing all that stuff. And I'm curious about like, what are the some of the things like I imagine you prep for an Academy Award, and then things just happen. Like, how do you how do you pivot? Like what's Are you allowed to with the sensors and all that kind of stuff? Like what's, what's the mean?

Bruce Vilanch 33:25

Even in the course of the broadcast? Yeah. Yeah, sure. I mean, it started Well, for me, it started with Billy Crystal. When the year that jack Palin's one, four, there is I think it was Billy a second time hosting jack one for city slickers, which was Billy's movie, and he made a crack about Billy and then started doing one on push ups. And so, but nobody remembers the first thing that he said, Billy introduced Whoopi, who was presenting the award. And may I forget what the joke he was admitted that jack and because jack was nominated in that category, and then jack one, and he came up on stage, and the first thing he said was Billy Crystal I crap bigger than that. So right away, we knew we were off and running. Then he started doing the one arm push ups and what he was like standing up saying to him kind of innovation. And we were in the wings. And Billy said, Well, we have to, we have to go with this. And so we threw out a lot of what we were doing what we had planned. And we kept coming up with jack Palin's jokes to do as as often this, we could say he was a running gag. And just the Yeah, we worked with a network sensor, who was at the time this is Futterman, who was ally glasses looked exactly like you expected, but she had kind of a writer's champion. He was forced to toe a certain corporate line, but we knew what we couldn't do basically. And as we as we just kept going, though, his manager came backstage and said, How many more views are going to do because I'm running a pool. With the audio,

like the weird

Jeff Dwoskin 35:04

sound, but it must be it must be great to like work with had being held handed gold like that, like well, we went

Bruce Vilanch 35:11

for it the next year, we won an Emmy for writing the show for basically rewriting the show on the fly. There you go. Everything else except for what the host does. And except for what a winner might say. Everything on the show is scripted and not merely scripted, but negotiated. I mean, by the time it gets to the sensor, it's like the last person to look at it. I mean, because everybody wants to be seen in the best possible light. And they all have people and their people all have a concern. And so you have to deal with everybody's people. And it goes down the line. I mean, you'll you'll hear from the hairdresser saying, Oh, well, she won't. She won't say that. Yeah, I mean, they'll call you up and they'll tell you listen, I'm helping you out here. I walk her dogs. And I'm telling you, she's not gonna do this. I saw the script. She's not gonna. So it's over 23 of these shows, I've learned what to do with all that kind of stuff. And basically, the the sensors is, yeah, they're there. They're here and they're there. I mean, this is Futterman, one year when he was hosting, and it was the year that Hugh Grant had been arrested for, yes, with a prostitute named divine Brown. And the joke we had was, what a year. Of course, the biggest release this year was Hugh Grant. Wait, we do get a big laugh. And then she said she's gonna say yeah, that divine round. It's a real that's a fellatio Alger story. Mrs. Futterman said Felicia was on a list of words that we cannot utter on the Academy Awards, because you could say it on NYPD Blue. But that was on a 10 o'clock at nine o'clock Central. And the Oscars were earlier in the evening. And they were considered a family event. And there were words that could not be said on the family event. All this has changed mind you. Because in order to keep up with cable, they had to change all those things. And so you I mean, you would hear I don't know that you did here but you would you could hear fellatio on Roseanne, bizarre image. But I mean, they could use, they could say his word certain at eight o'clock that they could never use before. Because they were hearing them elsewhere. And unless there was you had a very uptight sponsor who, you know, was like, I don't know, a Mormon company or a Christian, a faith based company, that who really would have an objection to it, basically, you could, you could use it. And since so much of television out sponsored by tech, and you know, gigantic multinationals, it doesn't come up the way it used to. Did you ever.

Jeff Dwoskin 37:53

I'm sure you'd ever write something? They did it? And you're like, oh, that did not work.

Bruce Vilanch 38:00

Yeah, well, the whole you know, Ted Danson blackface thing that didn't work. Yeah, it was like this idea. And it was a tremendous backfire, but that was because the Friars Club had always been a private party. And that year, they made it public. And it was in a ballroom with 1500 people who had no idea what a roast was. They thought a roast was the Dean Martin thing with Lucille Ball made fun of Orson Welles. They didn't realize everybody had kid gloves. They didn't realize what a real Friars Club roast was. And what the TED did it for a very specific reason they had broken up. And this was like their swan song and they wanted to fight. They wanted to address all the people who had directed hate at them for the two years, they were together to show that they were above all of that. So they were the worst jokes imaginable. And in the worst possible taste, because that was the that was the mission. And I just felt bad because the moment he came out there, he realized that this was the wrong room. And you're standing out there in blackface. It's like you can't take excuse me, folks, I'll be right back and go backstage and hit the album clean. I mean, they're, they're ready for and there were a lot of people who were on the day as who decided to take umbrage because I think because they were black and they were afraid that they would be their own community would turn on people like Montel Williams and the mayor of New York, David Dinkins and one who did not was Chris Rock, who was a was not Chris Rock yet he was on SNL, but he hadn't established himself has been tough. He was very good about it. But a lot of people, Roger Ebert, who was married to a black woman, chassis bird, he decided to take umbrage on her behalf. I think it it was a mess. It was horrible. It was awful. It was like watching a plane with all your relatives on he can shut down. It was terrible. So that's the biggest case of it. No, a joke doesn't work. A joke doesn't work. That's why they have savers. I mean, Johnny Carson used to do a whole whole evening of savers. If they didn't laughs He would, you know, have a joke that you knew they would.

And it was generally about the fact that it isn't a laugh,

Jeff Dwoskin 40:06

you know, but like a Billy Crystal can save himself right? It'd be like crystals cuz he's a comic he said natural sense, right? So we were like when working with him with the jack pound stuff was probably just just gold right? Hey, do this he can internalize it, he can just get out there and do it. Right. But then some of these folks,

Bruce Vilanch 40:23

they can't do that they haven't got that skill. Right? Yeah. So it's something that you learn, you don't learn. I'm not. I'm trying to give who it was. But there are people who are I hate to do it. But you can prepare savers in case something doesn't work? Well, you can always say you know, and it's like, it's like telling them what to say the hecklers. Every situation is different. Some of them have got it and some of them you know, like, Michael Richards just lost it. When he was heckled he just lost it. That happens to people getting you got into a lot of trouble. And it was an early victim of canceled culture.

Jeff Dwoskin 40:58

Yes. And, and cameras on phones. The the whole combination of all that is well, that that

Bruce Vilanch 41:05

increases because the evidence,

Jeff Dwoskin 41:07

yeah. So much. Now you just me just even now with the internet bringing up the stuff that was recorded. Everything is recorded. Now. It's a whole different. It's a whole different world. So speaking Billy Crystal, another thing that I grew up with and loved comic relief. Yeah. All the comic relief. I think that was like the first time like, I felt like I was watching something where, you know, like, Oh, I can I can give, right, I can have a, you know, it's like, I just those those are also great.

Bruce Vilanch 41:37

That was a gift of Ronald Reagan, who cut so many welfare programs that people were suddenly on the street. And there was all of a sudden there was a homeless crisis. And there was a direct result of the trickle down theory of the Reagan administration. And the comics saw, they decided they could do something about it. And they were not fans of Reagan to begin with, except maybe if the movies he made with the chimpanzee, those were those are always fun. But they decided to get together and do this. And HBO was looking for a signature piece, because they they were HBO but they wanted to be HBO. So the in the variety area, they hadn't really done anything. So they picked this thing up. And of course, it became an event. And it just it kept going because the homeless situation didn't get didn't get any better. But by the time we got into like the 12th. One, it was diminishing returns there. There are a lot less people were contributing because they kept contributing, and they kept seeing homeless people. And it wasn't kind of like medical charities where you say we're still working, we're working on it. They want people want to tap direct results. Anyway, the last one we did was for victims of Katrina. We did it in LA. And the guy who organized it, HBO went away. And the three if the three of them Billy Robin, and what they said, No, we could do another one. But we have to have younger people host it and we will make an appearance. And that might be the answer. If they're you know, if there are people who were more relatable to Generation X, or millennials or whatever, I lose track on all the nicknames they could. That might be a way back in but nobody has stepped up to that. Yeah, I want to do this. So and now probably we won't be streamed and you know, zoomed

Jeff Dwoskin 43:32

Right, exactly. I'm sure you're tired of talking about it. But I am slightly obsessed with the Star Wars Holiday Special. You mentioned earlier, you have a copy. I actually I had I remember seeing it, you know, but I think you'd only watch it my way back

Bruce Vilanch 43:46

way. You might remember how old were you? I mean, without asking how old you are now I will do the math.

Jeff Dwoskin 43:52

Well, I would have been eight because it came out right after shortly after Star Wars. Right. So

Bruce Vilanch 44:00

yeah, it was a Star Wars. I guess it was a Yeah, it was Thanksgiving weekend. 78.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:06

Yeah, so I met and then, years ago, a friend of mine gave me a copy on DVD. So I actually and now you can watch it. You can stream it on

Bruce Vilanch 44:15

a bootleg DVD.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:18

Alright, you know, he gave me a bootleg of it. Yeah. It was like somebody was VHS.

Bruce Vilanch 44:24

Yeah. Even then when there were well, there were there weren't DVDs then actually there were you could, you could buy a VHS but they they cost a lot of money. And so people rented VHS tapes.

Jeff Dwoskin 44:38

Yeah, this was a VHS. Burned onto it. Yeah. Yeah. transferred it

Bruce Vilanch 44:44

off. Yeah, there were. I had a I think I had a Betamax tape. I think I had a three quarter inch which was what they actually used in television studios. They recorded on three quarters But they were they were like reel to reel, three quarter inch, whatever it was whatever I had somebody else had an urge to get what you had. And you can see how the trip it was what was interesting about that was George made the three movies and then he stopped. He always said he was gonna make he had six movies you want to make he told me that. He said he had 10 stories and six of them were earmarked for movies and the four others he was selling off two different things. And this was the last one in the pile. And he sold it to CBS was a variety show and of course, I don't think he knew anything about variety television. I think that he thought they were just going to take the story and music realize it would have been difficult because the lead the characters in the story where the Wookie is where the bookies who talk like fat people having orgasms.

Trust me, I know.

So it was difficult and we had to in traditional network variety special form we had to bring in we brought in stars and because the rookies were only would speak and couldn't speak in subtitles. Everyone thought nobody would read subtitles because all that's changed. Now all the Star Wars movies are loaded up battle, because everybody is speaking he walker or Java whatever they speak. And every planet is different. So of course he. So we have our current in as a temporary salesman who was going from planet to planet and who spoke Wookie and he could translate everything of the workers at home or say. Meanwhile, Chewbacca was in the Millennium Falcon with Han Solo Princess Leia and Luke on their way to deliver Chewbacca to the Wookie planet. For Life day a holiday Georgia invented and they stopped off attach a queen at the cantina which was we had run by Bea Arthur. So she could do a number there were numbers in each of these places and and the bookies had a virtual reality helmet which nobody knew about it. JOHN George said he invented and they it would it would put a pin into their brain and they could visualize their fantasies they realized. So the kid had a fantasy the little bookie had a fantasy of circus, Olay and grandpa had a fantasy of Diane Carroll. And, yeah, I've got a fantasy of Jefferson Starship, and so forth and so on. So it was it was a very eclectic variety show. And I don't think George ever anticipated that. I don't think he anticipated guest stars, I think he thought they would turn it into a seamless, sort of, of space opera. So he he got out when he could, but he wasn't gonna stop it. But he went back up to Moran because he was about to start shooting the Empire. And, and this was a thing to stir the pot between star wars between A New Hope and the Empire. Anyway, all of it was dead and buried. And it did, the ratings were good. The reviews were not terrible, and but it was like everything else. It was dead and buried after that weekend. And then along came the internet and the bootlegs of Richie speak began showing up on the internet. And a whole generation of kids, probably your age, who had watched the first three movies on video, were too young to actually go to theaters to watch it saw this special, which had his name on it, which they'd never heard of. And they were appalled. And they felt pain. And George began getting death threats. Say How could you do this everyday and he got you know, I mean, he was scared. And he so he made it his mission to try and erase this thing from the face of the internet, which of course is impossible to do. It's very hard to find. And everything we do find is like squiggly and awful. But he and he flat out one talk about it. And if you if it's mentioned his presence, the smile becomes a frown. And just because he did go on to make the three other movies and that was the thing. Every time one of those pictures came out. It was unearthed again. As Yes, well, some of you have never seen the Star Wars Hollywood has been the last Star Wars thing and all that. You only think the remains of it was Bubba Fett, who was introduced on the show and then became an animated thing that went on for still goes on.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:31

Anything to do with a Boba Fett?

Bruce Vilanch 49:34

He did that they did Lucasfilm did that one and we had nothing to do with it. It was just inserted. I think it was something that the kid was watching on virtual reality. The little walkie lumpy or what have you.

Jeff Dwoskin 49:46

But what were those nicknames or is that a full name? Like chewy? Oh,

Bruce Vilanch 49:50

he named he named lumpy. Wilkie. I forget what her name was. I kept calling her Mrs Chewbacca. But she did have And somebody was he wasn't there was an ECI in there. The

was he the grandfather could have been a silverback

Jeff Dwoskin 50:07

Wookie. So the whole idea behind the Wookie concept was all George kind of exploring the whole. Yeah. Okay, well,

Bruce Vilanch 50:17

who else would do that? Who else would make that you have to remember back then Star Wars was a movie. It was a job blockbuster like jaws. It was the first, the second of the blockbusters that opened in theaters the same day, and every suddenly was a part of the culture. But the whole reason he was doing this show was he wanted to keep the interest alive until the end, the Empire wasn't gonna come out for another year. So he was that was his strategy. So this was this was all George. It makes sense.

Jeff Dwoskin 50:47

I get it. Let me see. I might have another question for you. I asked some of my Star Wars friends so they a lot of them. Were interested in the Boba Fett. Think the The interesting thing about the Boba Fett, and I didn't write it, but like the Have you seen the Mandalorian? Yeah, the weapon that the Boba Fett uses in the cartoon in the special is the same weapon the Mandalorian uses in the live action show, which is interesting how it you know they

Bruce Vilanch 51:13

weren't you know, in his in his universe, that would make sense. I Mandalorian is fun. I personally think that baby Yoda is what will survive from the Mandalorian

Jeff Dwoskin 51:25

baby as

Bruce Vilanch 51:26

long after everything else has gone baby Yoda will still be a thing. You know, because it's Yoda. And because it's adorable.

Jeff Dwoskin 51:34

Was there any like weirdness about trying to create a holiday? I mean, I know later with Seinfeld did it but like,

Bruce Vilanch 51:41

for the rest of it. I was like, I thought it was a bold and ambitious. I mean, but who knew? I mean, I think that may have been a test to see how deep into the culture. The Star Wars had gone. Because now you might be able to do that. But what now? Don't they have may 4? May thank me for it. Yeah, may 4 is Island, right? So I made a little hashtag up too soon. It was just too soon. It was also life day was not about Star Wars May the fourth is is about Star Wars. Life day was was you know, hippy idea of let's just celebrate life and the trees. And I mean, Earth Day is what is is kind of closer to what life today was. It's awesome. You did so much. So much, baby. Yeah. What's next? What are you doing now? what's what's I know? You know? Well, I'm like everybody else I'm writing. I mean, you know, I'm reading, writing, zooming, streaming, and falling in love all over again, with porn stars long dead. I'm writing I mean, I've written I've wrote a musical while we were sitting, not while you're sitting here. But while I've been in my house since March 12. I wrote a musical collaborators all on zoom and whatnot. And we're waiting to see if the theater ever comes back in this century, where we can, it can be staged, we have a deal with a theater, but we'll see if when they're when they're going to reopen. And I've been writing, I'm writing working on that book, and just, you know, I mean, and doing a million zoom, and podcasts and stuff like that, and what

Jeff Dwoskin 53:19

and thank you for being on mine. I can't even think of enough. It was such an honor.

Bruce Vilanch 53:23

They're fun to do. And it's you know, it's fun, because it brings up things which I could maybe use again. So it's not, it's not entirely altruistic. It's like, oh, he reminded me You reminded me of something that I will liken using the brokers, something like that. I'm glad everybody has their own. We all are in our we all operate in our own self interest.

Jeff Dwoskin 53:48

If I can, for a moment be amused to Bruce flange. That's quite a bucket list item. To remind you something at the

Bruce Vilanch 53:58

beginning, wearing a mask will keep you healthy, and prevent you from getting it everybody would have worn a mask but they didn't say that. Because nobody really gives a shit about anybody else. So you know, if you're not wearing a mask hell with you. But if you had said you're saving yourself if you wear a mask, everybody would have been right.

Jeff Dwoskin 54:19

I think it's about to take that all about our stuff people are about as people are starting to realize they need to buckle down.

Bruce Vilanch 54:25

There are a couple of nuns who maybe aren't but otherwise we are all

well fly people on the front line. You know,

Jeff Dwoskin 54:34

there are that next time you're in Detroit. Give me a call. I scurry around the city. Show you Okay, a lot of great stuff going on now. Hey, where can people connect with you? jail? Who's your

Bruce Vilanch 54:48

house? I'm trying to give up the Detroit places.

Jeff Dwoskin 54:51

Yes, I have amazing, amazing places. The where can people stay in touch with you?

Bruce Vilanch 54:57

They can go to we got Bruce calm with is you know there is a movie made about me get bruised 20 years ago with all these people produced by Harvey Weinstein who never laid a hand on me.

Hashtag Why not me?

So we got Bruce calm and they have all the poop about what's happening.

Jeff Dwoskin 55:19

Very cool. Well, thank you so much. I can't I can't thank you enough, but it's been a pleasure. Thanks for stopping by. Well, that was fun at a great time talking to Bruce Vilanch. Hope you enjoyed that. Shout out again to Mr. Jafari for hooking me up with some of those sweet holiday special questions also to my buddy Steve Joyner. publicists to the stars if you need a publicist 1-816-605-4561 call Steve Joyner. All right. That was cool. All right. So let's dive into a hashtag. Alright, I thought a fun one. To kind of tie into all the awesome award shows that Bruce has done throughout the years would be hashtag awards for millennials. This was done by our friend acidic blonde. And here we go. Here's some Richie says far this distance walked without looking up from phone hashtag awards for millennials that is actually that probably covers a lot of us. We all need to look up look up people. Here's another one. Best imaginary job title or influencer? Man, the avocado toast of Achievement Award. That's a good one. I think a lot of people would want that avocado toast is delicious. I don't know why that's one of the best things ever. The best use of Ok, Boomer GIF. I loved it that okay, Boomer. Being able to even these are awards for millennials folks. All right, here's one from a set of blind doesn't matter. Everyone gets an award participation awards are so important these days folks, best selective hearing award and most likely to break a bone while trying to take a selfie. And we've all been there. We've all been there. All right. All these tweets will be at Jeff Dwoskin show on Twitter. They'll also be listed in the show notes. Check them out, retweet them, follow them lots of funny stuff. Again, you can like and subscribe to the Jeff Dwoskin show and I Heart Radio Pandora Spotify good pods great app for podcast. Check that out. And we're everywhere Apple podcasts, Google podcasts like, subscribe, tell your friends and even more importantly, we'll see you next week.

Announcer 57:36

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Jeff Dwoskin show with your host Jeff Dwoskin. Go repeat everything you heard and sound like a genius. catch us online at the Jeff Dwoskin show.com or follow us on Twitter at Jeff Dwoskin show and we'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai