#5 The Empire Strikes Back with Dan Zehr

Announcer 0:00

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Jeff Dwoskin 0:15

Thank you, George, for that amazing introduction. Much appreciated and welcome to episode five of the Jeff Dwoskin show. Hi, and Jeff Dwoskin. Great to be back. Great to be back. today's show we're lucky sponsored by my treadmill. treadmill. Are you looking for random clothes just thrown around the room they might want to wear? Check out the treadmill. A lot of people ask Jeff or your sponsors just random things you see while doing the podcast. I'll never tell. We have great guests coming up Dan Zehr we're going to talk Star Wars if you love Star Wars, you're in for a treat. Speaking of movies, I got an email just yesterday from a local movie theater. They were telling me to come over and get popcorn curbside Hey, we got popcorn curves IDM is Ms. Popcorn Yes, I miss going to the movies and paying 400 times the amount of money for concessions that I could just pick up at Kroger or make myself at home so thank you thank you for making the official popcorn available. I think basically they could probably just stay in business just selling popcorn roadside they probably make more money off the concessions and they do off the movies. Anyway. Great interview coming up we're going to talk Star Wars I did want to give a social media tip first though in keeping theme with the interview for today. I just wanted to kind of say when you're online probably mostly Twitter maybe Instagram any any the active engaging platforms really. Just be careful not to attack a fandom the they will come at you pretty harsh. I made a joke once about Ariana Grande and let me preface by saying I love Ariana Grande a but I just made a joke. I was just being silly. It was something about licking doughnuts and the second to tweak some he or just some wind and start getting popular. Oh my god. It was 30 to 60 minutes non stop of every single person that lives for Ariana Grande day. It was it was inexperienced, but I survived. I survived and I will never do it again. Heart emoji, Ariana Grande a. Anyway, that goes for Star Wars your Star Trek and any of your major fandoms so that's that poster beware.

All right, let's get to the interview. You guys are in for a treat. This man is a good friend of mine. And here we go here with a special guest Dan Zehr. He's the host of coffee with Kenobi he's a high school teacher literature and writing and one of the most popular Star Wars podcasters in the world, in the world. I had the pleasure of meeting Dan we became buds a few years ago when we both were flown to London. They're impressively flown to London to be at a Gillette rogue one event at Pinewood Studios in London was a crazy fun time. And

Dan Zehr 3:41

ironically, now neither of us are shaving I've not shaved

Jeff Dwoskin 3:45

I still have every razor they gave me and I still have everything in shaving cream.

Dan Zehr 3:53

is so cool to chat again, Jeff. It's really awesome to see you and yeah, those some of those moments we had in London I just I really treasured it's really cool because we're there for a short amount of time. I feel like if you've it's really created a really nice bond because you're there for a very cool special reason. And then you know, get to be at Pinewood Studios. You kidding me? That's about as good as it gets.

Jeff Dwoskin 4:14

Yeah, that was that was great. No photos. They didn't let us take any photos or outside of the room that we're in. Right. But yeah, it was just it was crazy to be where like all these movies, all these movies were made. It was just crazy. surreal. So it probably would have been a good segue if they had shot The Empire Strikes Back there but the button nonetheless since you're a Star Wars expert, we should probably talk about something Star Wars it's the 40th anniversary of Empire Strikes Back crazy because that would make me how

Dan Zehr 4:47

safe to say it's the best Star Wars movie. It is to me. I think it's I shot when I was seven and I absolutely was riveted by it and confused because of how it ended which is incredibly The fact that George Lucas would would make sequel to the to that time the most successful film financially of all time, and give it a cliffhanger ending where you had to wait an actual three years I try to explain to my students look when you saw Thanos snap at the end of infinity war that was really gut wrenching. We'll take that and add two years to it with no social media where you get hints or clues. And that's how long we had to wait to see what was going to happen. If Darth Vader was telling the truth. Are they gonna rescue Han Solo? What's up with this Billy Dee Williams character and it just it was great. And I think it's the darkest film of their especially the original trilogy. I think it's definitely the most personal. It's the most character driven. It's also the smartest, it definitely resonates with me. The interesting thing about it, which the word line from the No, no, Luke, I am your father. But that's not even what he actually says. Which I always think is is the funniest thing that every buddy repeats, quotes. Yeah. He says, No, I am your father. Boom, and the only only three people in the entire world who knew about that was George Lucas. It was Irvin kershner. And Mark Hamill. moments before he actually shot that scene. And because when they were filming that they were there were so much so many wind machines and in the very cavernous said and very, very loud. And he couldn't hear David Prowse at all anyway. So he says, Look, this is the line you're going to react to. And he tells him and Mark Hamill his reaction was, you know, obviously very powerful because we still remember it to this day, but he literally didn't know and then I'm not sure if you've ever heard this. But when the movie premiered, that moment happened and Harrison Ford turns around and says to Mark Hamill, you little fire trucker. Why didn't you tell me this? It drives it up by one right in front of everybody in the theater at the premiere because he handled it until anybody that's incredible.

Jeff Dwoskin 6:49

Yeah, that was you can't keep secrets like that nowadays. And then even then you wouldn't have known it until you saw the movie because there was no internet so everyone wasn't talking about it. Now you have to rush to see a movie like that, that you like Infinity War, any of those that we talked about? Because if you don't, you have to literally stay off social media. Or you'll find out what happened because people think it's clever to spoil a movie for everyone.

Dan Zehr 7:18

Right? Yeah, we're not we're not coffee with Kenobi is spoiler free. And that's for a reason because I don't it just drives me nuts. I mean, that the power of narrative. That's what I like about these Mandalorians things that keeps sneaking out to us because I want to watch the show and be surprised by the story being told to me was I feel like spoilers. build up your expectations and then if you don't meet him, then you don't enjoy that the thing anyway. I think you're pretty into you're in touch with a guy too, aren't you? I thought you were?

Jeff Dwoskin 7:45

I am. Yes, I will. Now I do rush to see a movie, I would never give away a spoiler because I would never want to to ruin that for someone. I remember like talking to someone and they had their father in law had given away the six cent the success

Dan Zehr 8:03

Oh boy.

Jeff Dwoskin 8:05

Like, you know, it is like in his you know, there's like, if you robbed someone of that that moment. It's it's just horrible. So, so given that, that is such a pivotal thing. And for those of us that saw Star Wars Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in that order, because of our age, that was the order it was presented to correct. But now that's not always you don't have to make that choice now. Right? Because now it's that's in the middle of everything. There's one, two and three, row 1789. So when you talk to people who are just about to experience Star Wars, how would you tell them to watch the entire saga?

Dan Zehr 8:46

Well, I think it's sort of age dependence. Like my son, I showed him four or five, six in order. And then he saw, he basically saw them the way they were released, although we didn't watch Avengers hit for a long time, because he's younger, and eventually did and we have just sort of a pre agreed, okay, you're gonna close your eyes a couple of times, because there's some pretty dark stuff. You're just seven years old. So but with my students, and people who are older who have not experienced this, and I think had sort of a good narrative brain, I said, this is what you do. You watch four or 51236789, you can spring one row one. And so however you want, I don't think it's wise to show row one before a new home, even though it leads beautifully into new health because the special effects in the visual are just so dramatically different that I think might be a letdown from that point of view. So I did throw in Rogue One at the end. But the reason you do 451236 is the reveal and Return of the Jedi of Luke having a sister who's Leia is fine, it works. It's great. We know it worked for us for you know, 19 years, or no actually longer than that 2425 years. But when it's presented the intervention says oh, by the way, these are twins that our names are looking like Yeah, that's much more of a jaw drop moment, I think. And also, if you've got all of this stuff all this build up with Anakin Skywalker and who he is and why he becomes Darth Vader, then his redemption, what kind of Jedi means something? I mean, when we were growing up, we liked it, we loved it. But, you know, Darth Vader takes off his helmet or sirens to some old guy we've never seen before. And you just think what, what's going on? But now that you've got context, it bolsters a narrative, I think, to a very, very high level, which I think is what George always wanted. Anyway, I

Jeff Dwoskin 10:31

feel I failed as a parent in that I couldn't get my kids into Star Wars. How old are they? high school senior in college both girls I just couldn't nice is really it was a really into Star Wars but they just never did not from lack of trying I just Sure.

Dan Zehr 10:47

So like I was trying to get our wives to like it.

Jeff Dwoskin 10:50

Yeah. The so I was I was doing some I wanted to somehow maybe kind of impress you with my Star Wars. So I was doing I was just trying to I was going through I mean, obviously, I've seen the movies and I remember I'm but I just kind of want to so Boba Fett is in The Empire Strikes Back right? And, and so the tidbit was that that's not his first appearance, right? The first appearance is actually in the Star Wars Holiday Special. Which is knowing that wasn't what I was gonna say. Oh, that would impress Dan. What I wanted to impress you with is it I have a copy of it on DVD. Wow, man had burned it for me. Which burned is the phrase? Yes, Lucas would with us when he would hear it. It's probably the worst thing in the history of anything ever made ever

Dan Zehr 11:41

have you? I have I saw it when it first aired I think in 1979 on TV. And that's the only time I've ever seen I have a copy of it burned as well. But I've never watched it. And I feel like there's some cool parts of the main cast. But most of it is just incredibly cheesy and horrid. I mean, yeah, you got that animated. Boba Fett thing went to everyone says it's really cool. But it's been so long since I've seen it but it wasn't let me watch that thing. It's It's been a while

Jeff Dwoskin 12:07

because it's it's impossible to actually get the right we should make ourselves

Dan Zehr 12:11

watch it.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:12

I should do. We should do a live commentary, live commentary. That's gotta be on YouTube where we could sync it up to it holiday kids. Yeah. And then Yoda is a big deal with Frank eyes and the puppets. And a lot of these Boba Fett, Yoda, they're all a lot of those themes are coming back with the Mandalorian, which we can talk about some other time. But it's just everything resonates. And everything old is new again, I guess.

Dan Zehr 12:39

Indeed. Oh, this daljit is king.

Jeff Dwoskin 12:41

So if there's any of that, is there anything about the Empire Strikes Back? from other than what we've talked about that the nobody knows or you you feel like is a theme that is in commonly taken away from it?

Dan Zehr 12:52

Well, I actually did an article a couple weeks ago, I've been doing a weekly teaching with Star Wars, calm on Star Wars calm. We looked at Do they have me to find teachable moments? There's a lot of teachable moments in these movies. I want to talk about Do or do not there is no try. I find that routinely when I show this to my mythology, seniors in high school, what they would eventually someone says to me is why is he telling Luke not to try? Why is he saying Do or do not there is a Trier she's supposed to try. So I talk about well actually, that isn't really what the oddest thing at all Yoda saying. Do it. Meaning put your best effort put your most passion and hard work blood sweat and tears into it. If you're just gonna try Luke, based on your body language, and your posture, and your elocution, you're not interested in actually doing anything. But going halfway and halfway is not going to get the job done. So give your best and do your best. Or just don't bother. Don't waste my time. I'm 900 years old. I've been hiding in the swamp for 19 years, actually 23 years, or 2122 years by the time of this movie. And if you're either my last hope you're not. So of course Luke eventually fails at first and then if he does figure it out, but I feel like that's a misconstrued line. I think it's really important.

Jeff Dwoskin 14:10

That is amazing. And that is I think an excellent way maybe to wrap it up. It's a great lesson from Yoda a great lesson from Dan Zehr, the host of coffee with Kenobi you'll check it out check the show notes for the address. You want to give it real quick.

Dan Zehr 14:24

Yeah, sure. I l thanks again. Dude. This was super fun to catch up with you. But you can find me each and every week on coffee with Kenobi wherever you can find podcasts just celebrated seven years of doing the show, our weekly show where we try to make you think about sours and want to make you laugh. And it's spoiler free, family friendly. It's a good time. You can find me on Twitter atmospheres there MRZEHR, you can find coffee would be all over social media. If you're trying to launch your own podcast or blog or you already have an existing one, and you want to build your brand, you can check me out at dancy media.com and I can help you get the process started there and I also Write regularly for Star Wars calm and IGN.

Jeff Dwoskin 15:04

You are incredible. Thank you so much. I can't thank you enough for my pleasure, brother. All right, that was Dan check out his podcast. Great guy. You'll learn a lot about Star Wars. So I dug in deep. I found this funny trend on Twitter from a little bit ago. It's called hashtag Yoda clickbait from the hashtag roundup Friday fun do game every Friday at 8pm All right, so these are Yoda clickbait headlines. Excuse the horrible impression live more than 900 years one weird trick we'll do I was even close. I don't even know the data Hot singles in your area, you can move it. Alright. What kind of pattern one you are this quiz. You take Yoda. This is why they he's doesn't work for papers. If you let the Wookie win these five things will come your way they will. That Yoda Luke's father believe you won't. All right. Well, those of you. I guess, say them in your head and yodas voice are a little funnier. But anyway, that was fun. A lot of fun stuff on Twitter. You know, I love the Twitter. All right. So that's it. This is been a wrap on episode five of the Jeff Dwoskin show. We will see you episode six.

Announcer 16:41

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Jeff Dwoskin show with your host Jeff Dwoskin. Go repeat everything you heard it sound like a genius. catch us online at the Jeff Dwoskin show.com or follow us on Twitter at Jeff Dwoskin show and we'll see you next time.

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